Log for #openttd on 26th October 2020:
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02:49:47  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] Henry03 opened issue #65: [id_ID] Translator access request
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03:48:14  <dwfreed> LordAro: next time frosch123 is around, let them know I fixed it :) (and thanks for the hilight)
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09:27:16  <TrueBrain> <- it is official
09:33:35  <LordAro> \o/
09:34:10  <LordAro> you've clearly had a productive weekend
09:34:45  <TrueBrain> weekend? This was 10 days :P
09:36:49  <TrueBrain> well, tbh, most of that time was understanding what the fuck a user had tried to do on the wiki :P
09:37:20  <TrueBrain> and, now also:
09:37:21  <TrueBrain>
09:37:23  <TrueBrain> :D
09:39:41  <TrueBrain> for those who want to try, I would strongly suggest using for now, over the PyPi version
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09:43:12  <TrueBrain> welcome andythenorth
09:43:15  <TrueBrain> you are late
09:43:22  <TrueBrain> just mentioning :)
09:45:17  <TrueBrain> I have to decouple TrueWiki from OpenTTD content etc, but that is all for "sometime later" .. first getting it to work :D
09:53:55  <TrueBrain> 2700 LoC is wikitexthtml now, lol .. that grew fast :P ply tends to do that for you :D
09:54:31  <TrueBrain> it is 1300 LoC :D
10:43:10  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] JustAdreamerFL opened issue #66: [sk_SK] Translator access request
10:53:02  <andythenorth> yo
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16:30:47  <frosch123> dwfreed: thanks :)
16:40:55  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] lowdown2infinity opened issue #67: [de_DE] Translator access request
17:08:53  <TrueBrain> Our group of minions is growing!!
17:13:50  <longtomjr_> What do you use for the localization?
17:14:33  <longtomjr_> nvmd, found it
17:16:04  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] glx22 commented on issue #65: [id_ID] Translator access request
17:16:23  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] glx22 commented on issue #66: [sk_SK] Translator access request
17:16:38  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] glx22 commented on issue #67: [de_DE] Translator access request
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17:52:07  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
17:52:07  <DorpsGek_III>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:12:14  <frosch123> TrueBrain: migrated <gallery> :)
18:12:31  <frosch123> also, nice essay on truewiki :)
18:12:34  <Wolf01> "this one sparks joy"
18:13:19  <frosch123> i do no longer develop software for high voltage stuff, i do no longer spark
18:14:08  <Wolf01> I spark hate, even if I'm not connected to a power source
18:14:38  <frosch123> too much php? too much ruby? both?
18:15:01  <Wolf01> Maybe is the lack of those
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18:37:19  <TrueBrain> frosch123: nice :D
18:37:50  <TrueBrain> guess the next thing I should be doing is making the editing available
18:38:06  <TrueBrain> it sounds really easy to add, so I am curious what I am not seeing :P
18:40:20  <TrueBrain> well, something for tomorrow or so to try; now first lets see how galleries look :)
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18:47:32  <TrueBrain>
18:47:33  <TrueBrain> PICTURES
18:47:34  <TrueBrain> \o/
18:47:49  <TrueBrain> it is missing CSS, but that is not the point :)
18:50:00  <andythenorth> css is never a primary concern
18:50:01  <frosch123> firs charts are prettier
18:50:29  <andythenorth> dunno, I think the colours are nicer here
18:50:38  <andythenorth> I like the gel shading effect as well
18:50:48  <frosch123> haha, that's the part i dislike :)
18:50:52  <longtomjr_>
18:51:19  <andythenorth> oh wow a new term
18:51:29  <andythenorth> everyday is a schoolday with OpenTTD
18:51:44  <longtomjr_> Also, nice the language switching works
18:51:52  <andythenorth> I should find out about these Agents
18:51:53  <longtomjr_> there is some clipping on the russian page
18:52:07  <frosch123> andythenorth: that page and 3 similar ones remained on the "where to put this"-list until the very end :p
18:53:23  <longtomjr_> " Server got itself in trouble " Love that 500 message
18:53:25  <LordAro> shouldn't it be en/File:foo, rather than File:en/foo ?
18:53:27  <longtomjr_> using that from now on
18:53:52  <frosch123> LordAro: no :) it's one wiki, not multiple wikis
18:54:07  <LordAro> if you say so
18:54:23  <frosch123> we had the same discussion with categories yesterday
18:54:34  <TrueBrain> LordAro: frosch123 says it is Category/Language/<subpage>
18:54:36  <TrueBrain> shrug
18:54:52  <TrueBrain> pretty sure it doesn't matter in the end :)
18:55:30  <TrueBrain> it will be File/en/foo btw, without the :
18:55:34  <TrueBrain> but .. File isn't done yet :D
18:55:40  <longtomjr_> assumed that
18:56:26  <TrueBrain> LordAro: this order makes most sense on disk btw; no category -> Page, and off you go :)
18:57:27  <frosch123> it's also how you link them in the wiki source: [[File:en/image.png]]
19:00:03  <frosch123> TrueBrain: the "view history" will just link to  right?
19:01:04  <TrueBrain> in v1, yes
19:01:10  <TrueBrain> just because it is quicker to implement
19:01:19  <TrueBrain> it is, however, not userfriendly :P
19:01:30  <longtomjr_> Will github be the backing data source?
19:01:46  <frosch123> yes, and also the massedit interface :)
19:01:58  <longtomjr_> That makes life a lot easier
19:02:29  <longtomjr_> Will there still be editing on the wiki?
19:02:42  <longtomjr_> and then a bot that commits it to gh?
19:02:52  <frosch123> longtomjr_: look at how bananas works
19:02:52  <TrueBrain> yes, but mainly as I was not allowed to only allow that via GitHub :P
19:03:15  <FLHerne> andythenorth: I think someone just invented the terminology and decided to write it down on the wiki :p
19:03:28  <FLHerne> Like the bloody junctions
19:03:52  <longtomjr_> frosch123, which part of bananas?
19:03:57  <frosch123> FLHerne: but the deadlock-free-ness of the junctions was proven with the petri-net-proving software of the page author
19:03:58  <FLHerne> About half the content is just random ideas that Joe Blogg had on a Sunday afternoon
19:04:14  <longtomjr_> ah librarian
19:04:54  <frosch123> he likes bananas
19:05:00  <longtomjr_> That looks pretty nice :)
19:05:15  <TrueBrain> it pretty much solved a huge bus-factor
19:05:16  <longtomjr_> because he is an orangutang
19:05:24  <longtomjr_> (or however you spell that)
19:05:39  <TrueBrain> we banned the language nazis long ago in this channel, no worries
19:06:16  <longtomjr_> Hehe
19:06:41  <longtomjr_> Btw, really cool what you got done with the wiki in such a small amount of time
19:07:43  <longtomjr_> also, does git add more history features than something like mediawiki, or less?
19:08:43  <frosch123> both :)
19:09:15  <frosch123> mediawiki has history per page. but no correlation between pages
19:10:02  <longtomjr_> To late in the evening for me to try and figure out what that ends up meaning in practice.
19:10:20  <frosch123> that also carries over to reverting and deleting things
19:11:11  <frosch123> so on mediawiki you can mess with the history of a single file, without the rest noticing
19:11:33  <frosch123> but similar, if you do mass-edits, like replace words on multiple pages, those changes are independent
19:12:04  <longtomjr_> I mean you can still do that with git if you just end up going through the truewiki editor, so it only shows the file spesific history?
19:14:35  <frosch123> yeah, but if you want to remove vandalism from a page by rewriting history, you affect the revision hashes of the whole repository, so of all pages
19:15:12  <longtomjr_> This is crazy, there is so much less code than what I expected.
19:16:37  <TrueBrain> now check the PHP version :P
19:16:54  <longtomjr_> frosch123, mmmm yep. A PR based workflow is probably too much for wiki editing
19:16:58  <TrueBrain> (referring to the mediawiki code :P)
19:17:03  <frosch123> right, did someone compare the loc of wikitextparser+wikihtml with the php rendered linked from that rust-rant?
19:17:32  <frosch123> longtomjr_: esp. without previews :p
19:18:14  <TrueBrain> wikitextparser: 3k, wikitexthtml: 3k (including ply), truewiki: 300
19:18:17  <TrueBrain> so < 10k
19:18:36  <TrueBrain> mediawiki is not far off there
19:18:47  <TrueBrain> so it is pretty comparible tbh, in LoC terms
19:18:47  <longtomjr_> TrueBrain, yep. When I saw it is 40% CSS, I thought "Why is there such a crap-ton of css". Turns out that there just is not a lot of code, this is amazing. Might end up being a way more maintainable sollution than mediawiki in the end.
19:19:10  <TrueBrain> for OpenTTD for sure it will be a whole lot more maintainable
19:19:19  <longtomjr_> Yep, I mean for ottd
19:19:35  <TrueBrain> yeah, I am 100% sure that the total package we have here is more maintainable
19:19:47  <TrueBrain> especially with the data on GitHub, that alone is a big win
19:19:50  <longtomjr_> I were quite sceptical when you said that it might just be easier to build it, than maintain it.
19:20:07  <longtomjr_> (easier to build an alternative vs maintaining mediawiki)
19:20:07  <TrueBrain> I was too till I found wikitextparser :P
19:20:20  <longtomjr_> Yep, free storage
19:20:39  <TrueBrain> storage is always (nearly) free :)
19:20:48  <TrueBrain> but everyone being able to manipulate it, it just epic win
19:21:00  <TrueBrain> mass edits on mediawiki .... well ... I think nobody wants to do that :P
19:21:17  <frosch123> longtomjr_: well, our wiki reaches 50% of the lfs quota of the free plan :)
19:21:42  <TrueBrain> but, tbh, the only reason I considered truewiki viable, is because we already done all the difficult shit with bananas-api and bananas-frontend-web
19:21:47  <TrueBrain> it really is mostly a copy/paste from there
19:22:13  <TrueBrain> we have the experience, we have the knowledge ..
19:22:20  <TrueBrain> and we know the concept works
19:22:37  <longtomjr_> This is really cool and exciting! Anyways, I need to go to bed now. Thanks a lot for the effort and really looking forward to see this progress!
19:23:01  <TrueBrain> sleep well, and tnx :)
19:23:54  <longtomjr_> might be able to help if the opportunity arises, but atm I am getting pretty end of year kinds of tired from my day job coding. I still want to have a look at that bananas grf upload UI and see how long it will take for me to break.
19:24:18  <longtomjr_> o/
19:24:22  <TrueBrain> help is always welcome, but enjoying life is more important :)
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20:21:06  <frosch123> joy, <gallery> also works with image names without leading File: or Image: :)
20:21:40  <TrueBrain> yeah, I kinda ignore that too I tihink
20:23:24  <frosch123> i just fix the one case in mediawiki, then i do not have to adjust my script :)
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20:23:31  <TrueBrain> smart :)
20:23:40  <TrueBrain> I did that many times :P
20:23:41  <frosch123> learned that from you
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20:38:32  <frosch123> damn, i hate it when my software does something right, that i did not intend and only notice when i break it
20:38:42  <TrueBrain> haha :D
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21:00:55  <frosch123> it's also amazing how bugs sometimes only affect a single page :)
21:02:32  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i pushed an update. fixing a ton of image links
21:17:21  <TrueBrain> Nice! Will check it out tomorrow
21:17:42  <TrueBrain> Considering launching this on staging, so we have a bit more stable testing ground
21:18:02  <TrueBrain> Need to add GitHub checkout for that .. bit of copy paste :D
21:22:41  <frosch123> <- "CSS if the option will become available"... never heard about including css in a wiki page
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21:25:35  <frosch123> hmm, i am tempted to change the ambox/check templates so that the conversion works
21:25:46  <frosch123> not sure what is less work... change before or after conversion
21:41:13  <TrueBrain> What ever floats your boat :)
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21:51:01  <TrueBrain> We also need a way to archive the current wiki .. hmm
21:51:17  <TrueBrain> Export MySQL and dockerize it, I guess
21:53:01  <frosch123> do we?
21:53:53  <TrueBrain> I like to :)
21:54:20  <TrueBrain> The break-glass archive :p
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22:04:15  <andythenorth> lol 3 days so far to draw 1 ship :D
22:07:07  <TrueBrain> As long as it is going to be pretty!
22:10:14  <frosch123> is that a positive thing to say? draw for 3 days, so it will be pretty for 3 days, and then delete it?
22:14:22  <andythenorth> as long as it gets done
22:14:38  <andythenorth> ships are the most time consuming thing, more than industry
22:14:55  <andythenorth> they have all these extra crappy bits, like masking out the hull when they load
22:15:03  <andythenorth> and drawing a wake for when they're moving
22:16:08  <andythenorth> cargos and crap
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22:25:00  <TrueBrain> Don't draw crap plz
22:25:27  <LordAro> 💩
22:29:01  <andythenorth> can automate crap
22:48:23  <TrueBrain> Normal people call going it to the toilet, but okay
22:48:44  <TrueBrain> That was a poorly constructed sentence, lol
23:00:09  <andythenorth> lol
23:00:15  * andythenorth must to sleep
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