Log for #openttd on 31st October 2020:
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10:07:44  <andythenorth> yo
10:07:55  <LordAro> o/
10:11:28  <andythenorth> so 1 week to draw a ship
10:11:39  <andythenorth> whereas I can draw 2 trains per day
10:12:44  <andythenorth> Sam has 42 ships I need to draw
10:13:13  <andythenorth> whereas Horse has 500 trains I've drawn
10:13:18  <andythenorth> which takes longer? o_O
10:23:20  <longtomjr> Dunno sounds complicated
11:25:37  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] tnmendes commented on issue #8066: 1.10.3 crashes on start in OS X 10.12.6
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12:49:00  <TrueBrain> Cannot connect to host ssl:True [SSLCertVerificationError: (1, "[SSL: CERTIFICATE_VERIFY_FAILED] certificate verify failed: IP address mismatch, certificate is not valid for ''.
12:49:02  <TrueBrain> hmm ....
12:51:27  <TrueBrain> this is the exact same code as running for bananas-api :P
12:58:45  <LordAro> has several IPs, one of them got an incorrect certificate?
12:58:59  <TrueBrain> I do not think it is :)
12:59:04  <TrueBrain> bananas-api works, with the same code
13:00:16  <TrueBrain> it works with aiohttp 3.6.2, not with aiohttp 3.7.0
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13:00:23  <TrueBrain> so it would have broken bananas-api too in 2 days :P
13:01:02  <TrueBrain> owh, no, now it works ...
13:01:03  <TrueBrain> wuth?
13:01:14  <TrueBrain> rriiiigggghhhtttt .... walking away now ....
13:11:08  <LordAro> to me, that error message would suggest being at fault
13:11:36  <LordAro> or possibly some local certificate issue
13:12:12  <frosch123> or the secret service intercepting stuff
13:12:42  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I normally assume I am at fault in these cases :)
13:12:50  <TrueBrain> so possibly my cert-store was not up-to-date or what-ever
13:13:00  <TrueBrain> it works now .. shrug
13:22:51  <TrueBrain> okay, so you can login now, even with multiple backends .. sweet :)
13:28:34  <TrueBrain> ah .. it was aiohttp 3.7.0 after all
13:28:41  <TrueBrain> I just now installed 3.7.1, didn't notice that
13:28:43  <TrueBrain> which fixes the issue:
13:28:47  <TrueBrain> "Fix a variable-shadowing bug causing ThreadedResolver.resolve to return the resolved IP as the hostname in each record, which prevented validation of HTTPS connections."
13:28:54  <TrueBrain> so it wasn't LordAro  :D
14:02:32  <LordAro> :o
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14:43:05  <TrueBrain> and I can edit pages ... that was easy :P
14:43:10  <TrueBrain> now for all the weird edge-cases ....
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14:43:50  <TrueBrain> creating new pages even works without effort :D I love those bonuses
14:43:57  <FLHerne> Is is documented anywhere that the `GRFID` variable is available in NML?
14:44:16  <FLHerne> It seems to be an implementation detail, and I can't find any mention of it
14:44:34  <FLHerne> But it would be annoying if it went away and someone complained
15:04:43  * andythenorth looks
15:05:07  <andythenorth> FLHerne would you expect it here?
15:05:53  <andythenorth> FLHerne it's implied here
15:05:59  <andythenorth> but not as a named var
15:09:43  <TrueBrain> frosch123: <- editing works .. ish. It does not push it to git (or GitHub) yet.
15:09:51  <TrueBrain> but otherwise you can edit pages, create pages, etc
15:10:07  <frosch123> \o/
15:10:16  <TrueBrain> there is also a preview
15:10:23  <TrueBrain> just not the way we want it to be in the end
15:10:26  <TrueBrain> but that is Javascript :P
15:11:11  <TrueBrain> code-wise it is a bit of a mess, but I knew that already :)
15:11:20  <TrueBrain> I have to rewrite where code lives .. deduplicate some other code ..
15:12:26  <frosch123> ah, the oauth redirect goes to localhost :)
15:12:33  <TrueBrain> oops :D
15:12:44  <TrueBrain> well, fix the URL and you will be fine :P
15:12:56  <TrueBrain> or use developer :P
15:12:57  <frosch123> yep
15:13:10  <frosch123> no idea what "developer" is, sounds like work
15:13:36  <TrueBrain> the ... other button on the Login page? :)
15:13:38  <frosch123> do you want to commit with a group account again? or query oauth for the email and commit as the user?
15:13:52  <frosch123> TrueBrain: yes, i saw it, did not press it :)
15:14:09  <TrueBrain> commit .. I dunno .. I am fine with both
15:14:19  <TrueBrain> if we do want to query email, we need to ask a bigger scope from oauth
15:14:30  <TrueBrain> using a group account might be easier
15:14:52  <TrueBrain> or we can do what you do for migration too: Username <>
15:14:53  <frosch123> preview is weird. it shows === instead of h2
15:15:13  <TrueBrain> it shouldn't?
15:15:34  <TrueBrain> hmm, I see ..
15:15:40  <TrueBrain> will have to check out what is going on there :P
15:16:21  <TrueBrain> yeah, I rather not increase the scope of the OAuth honestly ..
15:17:46  <frosch123> well, unlike bananas, here we have actual history pages
15:18:00  <TrueBrain> as said, we can just do Username <> ofc
15:18:06  <TrueBrain> which is fine for history purposes?
15:18:11  <frosch123> ah, the edit page has no commit message though
15:18:25  <TrueBrain> is that ever used? Like .. at all?
15:18:29  <TrueBrain> I never know what to write in there
15:18:33  <TrueBrain> doesn't feel very useful to me
15:18:55  <frosch123> true :) though moving to opinionatedwiki :)
15:20:06  <TrueBrain> come to think of it, maybe we should also change how BaNaNaS commits, and use the anonymous email for users
15:20:32  <frosch123> i hate those :)
15:20:50  <TrueBrain> but it does link your GitHub account to the commit
15:20:55  <frosch123> then i prefer
15:20:59  <TrueBrain> without having to deal with emails etc
15:21:18  <frosch123> yeah, but the hashes are github specific
15:21:19  <TrueBrain> so it would be TrueBrain <>
15:21:48  <frosch123> oh, that is a thing? i only saw
15:21:49  <TrueBrain> at least, I think that links the commits to my account
15:24:36  <TrueBrain>
15:24:37  <TrueBrain> that works
15:25:00  <TrueBrain> so that might be the nicest way to do this
15:26:43  <frosch123> yes, did not know it worked like that :)
15:27:03  <TrueBrain> and I think we can change BaNaNaS too, to make a commit per user like this
15:27:09  <TrueBrain> might be better than the librarian
15:27:21  <TrueBrain> (well, librarian can be the committer, we could just change the author)
15:27:37  <frosch123> originally bananas made a group commit for everything. then you split it into commit per package
15:27:43  <TrueBrain> yes
15:28:37  <TrueBrain> so far there hasn't been a change between 2 users at the same time I think :P
15:29:05  <TrueBrain> but wiki first, BaNaNaS after
15:29:24  <TrueBrain> for wiki, I was thinking: on Save page, commit, and push only after 5 minutes of no commits, or something
15:30:05  <TrueBrain> so if someone is changing multiple pages, he has some time to go from one to the other
15:30:05  <frosch123> when a user edits 5 pages in that time, are they squashed into one commit?
15:30:12  <TrueBrain> no, 5 commits
15:30:14  <TrueBrain> just 1 push
15:30:24  <frosch123> and when they edit one page 5 times?
15:30:28  <TrueBrain> 5 commits
15:30:32  <TrueBrain> just commit on "Save page"
15:30:44  <frosch123> people do not know how "preview" works :)
15:30:53  <TrueBrain> true .. but otherwise the history is a bit meh
15:31:04  <TrueBrain> we can hold off on commits, but what if 2 people edit the same page
15:31:45  <TrueBrain> so from a history perspective, commit per edit is better
15:31:50  <TrueBrain> just possibly more bloat
15:32:08  <frosch123> hacktoberfest only counts prs? :p
15:32:22  <TrueBrain> yes :D
15:32:31  <TrueBrain> well, we can always change it
15:32:38  <TrueBrain> commit per edit is the easiest to implement :P
15:33:56  <TrueBrain> I also never understood the "minor" edit checkbox on mediawiki
15:34:03  <TrueBrain> it is so much extra work they want you to do for making changes
15:34:11  <TrueBrain> like .. you figure it out if this was minor or not, don't let me figure that out
15:34:54  <frosch123> there are also reviews?
15:35:03  <TrueBrain> reviews? Sorry?
15:36:06  <andythenorth> I love the wiki
15:36:11  <andythenorth> I have used it at least 5 times
15:36:46  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I have no idea what you meant with "there are also reviews?" :) I am missing context :(
15:38:57  <frosch123> i thought sometimed pages have "changes waiting for review" and "reviewed commits"
15:39:04  <frosch123> but i cannot find an example
15:39:10  <TrueBrain> on mediawiki?
15:39:25  <frosch123> offical wiki. i think it's some kind of page protection on edit wars
15:39:28  <TrueBrain> you can "lock" pages
15:39:36  <TrueBrain> yeah, they have something for that in place
15:39:41  <TrueBrain> do we want something like that?
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15:40:14  <TrueBrain> it is not difficult: instead of pushing to master, it would push to a branch and make a PR :P
15:41:25  <frosch123> no, i doubt andy would be up for reviewing them
15:42:23  <andythenorth> I have to spend the next 2 years drawing ships
15:42:24  <andythenorth> sorry
15:42:57  <frosch123> "to get access to editing this page, please provide a unique ship sprite"
15:48:06  <andythenorth> lol
15:50:19  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Yes
15:50:26  <FLHerne> How is it implied?
15:50:51  * FLHerne isn't seeing it
15:52:45  <FLHerne> What does the `traininfo_y_offset` variable mean?
15:52:55  * FLHerne just saw it and was curious
15:53:06  <FLHerne> "Used to correctly position the depot view of trains" isn't really informative
15:53:36  <FLHerne> Oh, it's writeable
15:53:45  <FLHerne> Does that apply to all grfs, or just the current one?
15:54:27  <frosch123> FLHerne: it's crap
15:54:34  <FLHerne> can `climate` change during the game?
15:54:45  <frosch123> via console
15:54:54  <frosch123> there also used to be a cheat
15:55:10  <FLHerne> frosch123: That's not really informative either :p
15:55:18  <frosch123> FLHerne: anyway, that var now applies to a single grf only, but it used to be global
15:55:38  <FLHerne> I can see how global would be a mess
15:56:02  <frosch123> well, positioning sprites in depot vs. on track is "opinionated" :)
15:56:28  <frosch123> mixing wagnos from different sets into the same consist is equally troublesome
16:03:14  <andythenorth> FLHerne I'm wrong, not implied
16:06:10  <Wolf01> <andythenorth> I have to spend the next 2 years drawing ships <- can't you just automate?
16:08:06  <frosch123> spend the next 2 years automating drawing?
16:08:24  <TrueBrain> did Wolf01 just really suggest that art can be automated? :P
16:08:34  <andythenorth> art can slightly be automated
16:08:36  <frosch123> some art can
16:08:59  <frosch123> you just can't tell people that is was automated :)
16:24:07  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Once you've drawn a few, you can start copy-pasting bits?
16:26:57  <andythenorth> FLHerne somewhat yes
16:27:10  <andythenorth> originally I planned to draw 8 hulls and use them for everything
16:27:16  <andythenorth> but that makes it all look the same
16:28:24  <FLHerne> Yeah, Squid has that problem to some extent
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17:11:17  <andythenorth> when is 3CC?
17:12:52  <TrueBrain> When your ships are done
17:15:44  <andythenorth> I need colours for hull, funnel, and cabin
17:15:49  <andythenorth> user configurable
17:15:53  <andythenorth> not happening eh
17:19:16  <TrueBrain> Unlikely, is the right word :p
17:29:38  <longtomjr> Just make it infinite refittable liveries for every cargo andythenorth
17:30:37  <andythenorth> code generator
17:31:20  <longtomjr> it might not be the most fun user experience though, maybe just make one of the pieces configurable via refit, and the other 2 from cc
17:31:24  <frosch123> andythenorth: you can make that easily with spritestacks
17:33:37  <andythenorth> I could
17:41:17  <andythenorth> do these look identical?
17:42:31  <longtomjr> Not identical, similar though
17:43:03  <Eddi|zuHause> yes-ish, but it would need to be seen in context (like, dozens of these moving on a map)
17:43:39  <longtomjr> Different enough I think, maybe make one with 2 chimneys? (also other angles?)
17:43:50  <longtomjr> the hull is different, I think that helps
17:45:00  <andythenorth> ships are problematic in all respects
17:45:18  <longtomjr> just make trains that swim
17:45:51  <longtomjr>  What is the different roles of the 2 ships?
17:46:00  <longtomjr> or just the same, but more and faster?
17:46:07  <Eddi|zuHause> @longtomjr we did that already, it's called "wetrails"
17:46:24  <andythenorth> bigger and smaller
17:46:39  <andythenorth> ships are needed in 6 different sizes
17:46:41  <longtomjr> Yep, I know, but I am imagining a IH train just chugging through the ocean.
17:46:54  <andythenorth> the requirement for different sizes poses challenges
17:47:08  <andythenorth> IRL all ships look the same, from 400grt to 4000grt
17:47:14  <longtomjr> andythenorth, I think it is fine if they look similar for different sizes.
17:47:22  <longtomjr> more chimneys for bigger ships
17:47:29  <andythenorth> they have to look similar-ish because they are the same type
17:47:34  <Eddi|zuHause> longtomjr: you could do that in TTO, halftile-water didn't crash trains, so you could send them down the slope to water level and they would go on
17:47:41  <andythenorth> there are about 15 types of ship, and 3-6 sizes of each
17:48:38  <longtomjr> What is the jump between the shackleton and longstone?
17:48:58  <longtomjr> cargo capacity wise
17:49:49  <longtomjr> Do you have other angles we can look at as well?
17:51:28  <andythenorth> 540t 720t
17:51:45  <andythenorth> other angles aren't drawn, takes a week to draw each ship
17:51:47  <longtomjr> And the next step?
17:51:55  <andythenorth> 720 is the biggest
17:52:05  <andythenorth> the scale gets implausible after that
17:52:07  <longtomjr> Ok, before 540?
17:52:45  <longtomjr> I would remove the masts from the largest one I think.
17:55:01  <longtomjr> Is that the correct term for those pointy bits?
17:56:19  <andythenorth> yes
17:56:23  <andythenorth> they're masts and cranes
17:56:36  <andythenorth> they're needed to tie all the sizes of this type together visually
17:56:43  <andythenorth> and distinguish from other types
17:57:37  <longtomjr> Aah ok, I think having the extra one helps then, Maybe add some radio equipment at the top. (I assume that the bigger one is also more modern?
17:58:11  <longtomjr> Anyways, I am off for the evening.
17:59:02  <longtomjr> Good luck with the ships, excited for your new ship set!
18:00:52  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'm thinking you could add some distinguishing highlights by shading the cargo holds, instead of having them a uniform colour the whole length
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18:07:31  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i added a "def prepare(self):\npass" to storage/
18:08:28  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause I tend to agree
18:08:35  <andythenorth> it's not so amenable to copy-paste
18:08:36  <andythenorth> but yes
18:08:41  <TrueBrain> Ah, yes, I never tested local only :D
18:12:30  <frosch123> i like how my cpu fan tells me when it's done with loading the metadata :)
18:12:51  <TrueBrain> haha, yes :)
18:13:01  <TrueBrain> owh, and editing won't work currently; I have to release a new wikitexthtml version :)
18:13:19  <frosch123> i only edit via python :p
18:13:36  <TrueBrain> more: just so you know ;)
18:16:23  <TrueBrain> and I mostly disable the metadata scan btw .. as it is just too darn slow to make development useful :P
18:16:38  <TrueBrain> in _ _ main _ _ .py, line 75; you can just disable it
18:18:11  <TrueBrain> owh, and frosch123 , if you enable "github" as storage, remember it will wipe any commit/change in "data" :P (like it does with BaNaNaS)
18:18:20  <TrueBrain> so dont use "github" storage if you are working on your migration :D
18:19:12  <frosch123> what does the metadata scan do?
18:19:18  <TrueBrain> translations and categories
18:20:03  <TrueBrain> pushed a fix for the prepare() (and bumped wikitexthtml so editing works :P)
18:20:29  <TrueBrain> so without the metadata scan, you simply don't see if a page has other translations, and no page is in any category :)
18:23:44  <andythenorth> old and new versions of this ship
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19:01:02  <frosch123> down from 28k7 to 25k6 errors. now i also can post percentages like andy :)
19:01:47  <andythenorth> :D
19:01:58  <andythenorth> always move the goalpost when you get to 90% though
19:06:42  <TrueBrain> :D
19:07:00  <TrueBrain> 10% improvement, not bad
19:09:47  <LordAro> for some reason, i have just fixed grfcodec's compilation on mingw
19:10:26  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne opened pull request #165: WIP: handle labels more readably
19:10:42  <FLHerne> ^ pushed more as an RFC than anything else
19:10:51  <FLHerne> Oh, I forgot to add the updated test results
19:14:05  <LordAro>
19:14:08  <FLHerne> ...and I screwed up using this `gh` CLI tool and pushed the branch to the OTTD repo and not mine, so now I can't force-push...
19:14:25  <LordAro> ha
19:14:49  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne commented on pull request #165: WIP: handle labels more readably
19:14:49  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne closed pull request #165: WIP: handle labels more readably
19:15:16  <LordAro> FLHerne: sure? only master should be protected
19:16:24  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne opened pull request #166: WIP: handle labels more readably
19:17:09  <FLHerne> Back to just using git and the web interface, I understand that :p
19:17:13  <TrueBrain> LordAro: so who-ever made the NML one already copied the wrong one ;)
19:17:20  <FLHerne> Also, the tests might pass this time
19:17:21  <TrueBrain> I am trying to stop this tainting of the waters :P
19:20:47  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro opened pull request #167: Fix: Dorpsgek config file had OTTD-specific things in it
19:20:54  <LordAro> TrueBrain: happy? :p
19:21:18  <TrueBrain> I could bitch about the commit message, I guess
19:21:40  <LordAro> oh lol
19:21:40  <TrueBrain> and about a silly newline .. what is that extra newline doing there .. do others also have that? Hmm ..
19:21:56  <LordAro> i thought i only spelled the nml branchname wrong
19:21:56  <TrueBrain> no, they do not .. so yeah, I can bitch about that :D
19:22:10  <TrueBrain> I do like dorks
19:23:51  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] TrueBrain approved pull request #167: Fix: Dorpsgek config file had OTTD-specific things in it
19:24:45  <LordAro> hmm, am i supposed to have to wait for the codeql run to finish before mering?
19:24:47  <LordAro> merging*
19:24:51  <TrueBrain> haha, why?
19:24:57  <LordAro> it is so much slower than everything else :p
19:24:58  <TrueBrain> you expect it to find anything more/less? :P
19:25:08  <LordAro> no, i mean i can't merge until it's finished
19:25:11  <LordAro> it's a required stage
19:25:16  <TrueBrain> so .. disable the required part?
19:25:22  <TrueBrain> I didn't enable it on any repository :)
19:25:26  <TrueBrain> exactly for this reason
19:25:32  <TrueBrain> it is fine if you want to wait for it, it is fine if you want to skip it :D
19:25:59  <TrueBrain> it isn't required .. lol .. so why can't you merge? Odd
19:26:08  <LordAro> oh
19:26:15  <LordAro> webpage hadn't fully reloaded
19:26:18  <frosch123> FLHerne: no nml file hosted on devzone contains "GRFID"
19:26:19  <TrueBrain> :D
19:26:23  <LordAro> it was greyed out until i moused over
19:26:30  <TrueBrain> it changed here too out of nothing
19:26:34  <TrueBrain> so something must have changed :P
19:26:34  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro merged pull request #167: Fix: Dorpsgek config file had OTTD-specific things in it
19:27:42  <FLHerne>  -- why do people keep putting dates in READMEs? :p
19:28:01  <TrueBrain> FLHerne: it is a stupid idea, so why keep on doing it? :)
19:28:05  <FLHerne> frosch123: Ok, I can delete it
19:28:59  <FLHerne> TrueBrain: Well, if the release actions would do it, it wouldn't be stupid
19:29:07  <FLHerne> (but they don't yet)
19:29:16  <TrueBrain> I dislike release actions that make commits honestly
19:29:23  <TrueBrain> it makes things somewhat unpredictable
19:29:42  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I think you misunderstood me
19:29:47  <TrueBrain> adding of the / was a good idea
19:30:00  <LordAro> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
19:30:03  <TrueBrain> as I am pretty sure the intend is not to ignore any "objs" folder anywhre
19:30:06  <TrueBrain> but one specific one
19:30:09  <LordAro> i looked at the nml gitignore, and copied that
19:30:15  <LordAro> (no leading /)
19:30:23  <TrueBrain> again, copying from bad examples :P
19:30:26  <TrueBrain> you are doing well tonight :D
19:30:34  <TrueBrain> we changed mostly all other .gitignores to include a /
19:30:46  <TrueBrain> as example
19:30:50  <LordAro> *fine*
19:31:02  <TrueBrain> specific before generic :D
19:33:57  <TrueBrain> lol .. reading .. somehow people really do not understand licenses, and somehow really strange things happen in those cases
19:34:31  <TrueBrain> it has to be bad for the people making that addon, for the shit they are getting .. but on the other hand, read up om licenses really helps avoiding these kind of things :)
19:34:54  <TrueBrain> it is a nice warning for all, to somewhat understand what licensing is (and isn't) :)
19:39:42  <TrueBrain> owh, and deleting messages from an issue because you disagree with it .. well, that always means the pitchforks come out .. angry people doing stupid shit, etc :P
19:39:53  <TrueBrain> well, that was a good popcorn moment
19:42:55  <LordAro> TrueBrain: what's the distinction between GPL & AGPL licences?
19:43:06  <TrueBrain> webservices, API usage
19:43:19  <TrueBrain> with AGPL, if you host the software, you also have to release modifications
19:43:21  <TrueBrain> with GPL, you do not
19:43:31  <TrueBrain> basically, it is a fuck-AWS license
19:44:03  <LordAro> so not particularly relevant to this situation?
19:44:29  <FLHerne> Is there any sense in which you can 'host' a browser extension anyway?
19:44:32  <TrueBrain> I don't know the plugin honestly :)
19:44:42  <TrueBrain> but it seems you can replace AGPL with GPL in the stories
19:44:45  <FLHerne> I suppose you could have virtual machines, but who'd use that
19:45:13  <TrueBrain> the main issue the author created: if you accepted contributions, all contributors have to agree for a license change
19:45:19  <TrueBrain> well .. you have to do your best to reach all of them
19:45:34  <TrueBrain> in the end it is okay if you can't reach them all, etc .. but it is a process of months
19:45:40  <TrueBrain> not because-I-am-mad :P
19:46:54  <TrueBrain> btw, it is a reason to relicense bananas-api to AGPL .. if someone would run a clone of bananas-api, and modified it to be more awesome, but only makes the API available .. that is fine under GPL
19:47:38  <TrueBrain> the "Application Service Provider" hole :P I like that term :D
19:49:09  <TrueBrain> a clear example of big companies not respecting the intend of a license, and only following the exact letter .. sad world ... where is the Star Trek era? Is it there yet?
19:50:43  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/grfcodec] LordAro merged pull request #7: Add: Dorksgek config file
19:51:05  <frosch123> LordAro: to quote my company lawyer: you can use gpl stuff internally, but not as part of the product. don't even touch anything with agpl :)
19:51:20  <LordAro> haha
19:51:56  <TrueBrain> Sounds about right
19:53:37  <milek7_> hmm.. is there some way to have PR-like workflow in subversion?
19:53:54  <LordAro> we use svn branches at work quite a lot
19:54:24  <LordAro> there's not really any 'infrastructure' that enables anything like pull requests though
19:54:30  <frosch123> milek7_: phabricator
19:54:36  <LordAro> it's "run build against branch, merge if it passes"
19:54:49  <frosch123> is the only tool i heard of that handles git. but a git-svn bridge is probably beter
19:54:50  <LordAro> does phabricator support svn?
19:55:12  <LordAro> we have a reviewboard install at work, but it's basically unused
19:55:13  <frosch123> maybe they dropped it :p
19:55:24  <frosch123> but iirc that was the main feature of phabricator
19:55:33  <LordAro> and not particularly nice to work with - essentially have to add commits manually
19:56:02  <frosch123> LordAro: lists git, hg, svn
19:56:09  <LordAro> fair
19:56:29  <LordAro> i've only used phabricator very briefly about 7 years ago, and that was to migrate everything off it :p
19:56:57  <frosch123> <- lol "very high-performance Subversion browser, a moderately high-performance Git browser and a relatively usable Mercurial browser."
19:56:59  <TrueBrain> Just stop using subversion :p
19:57:21  <milek7_> svn is fine, git sucks for large files
19:57:31  <frosch123> i should use "moderately high-performance" some time
19:58:50  <TrueBrain> Large files in general don't belong in code repositories :p
19:59:03  <LordAro> TrueBrain: it's being worked on
19:59:15  <milek7_> well, content has to be stored *somewhere*
19:59:15  <LordAro> but it requires reworking every single developement workflow
19:59:18  <LordAro> it takes time :p
19:59:26  <TrueBrain> (Says he who is pushing wiki data in GitHub, hihi)
19:59:58  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I know :) helped doing it more than once in my life :)
20:00:01  <LordAro> :)
20:00:20  <TrueBrain> Developers always enjoyed the new after a while ... never during
20:02:00  <LordAro> i have managed to convert our main monorepo to git - there's only one tool that can cope with it, and somehow requires ~250G RAM to actually convert it
20:02:12  <LordAro> the resulting .git dir is 9G
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20:03:01  <TrueBrain> Not bad :D
20:03:38  <LordAro> given the amount of shit that's gone into that repo over the last 15 years (which itself was a CVS conversion), it's quite an impressive compression ratio
20:05:51  <TrueBrain> Well, I just archived everything before a year of the conversion .. helped a lot
20:06:09  <TrueBrain> And we accessed the archive like 3 or 4 times ... ever
20:06:19  <LordAro> it's certainly an option
20:06:20  <TrueBrain> And that was only because we were curious
20:06:46  <TrueBrain> Keeping an infinite history is a silly human emotion
20:07:04  <LordAro> but muh history
20:08:15  <TrueBrain> Exactly
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20:10:20  <frosch123> that depends on who wrote the history :) sometimes it's very helpful to figure out what some code is supposed to do, or why it does it. but sometimes the result is just "they did not know either"
20:10:32  <LordAro> *always
20:10:41  <LordAro> or if they did, they do not know now
20:13:57  <frosch123> hmm, something about "writing a script that filters a list of errors for the unexpected errors" sounds weird
20:15:15  <TrueBrain> Hahaha
20:15:25  <TrueBrain> So you are at that point :D
20:15:45  <TrueBrain> It is why I made it valid YAML btw,  hoping that would help you a bit :)
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20:16:49  <frosch123> i used the api on the old wiki to get a list of pages/categories/templates/files that are missing, to filter them from the "missing on new wiki" list :)
20:17:14  <TrueBrain> Smart
20:33:02  <frosch123> do you replace " " with "_"?
20:34:23  <frosch123> many files you report as missing have "_", but the sources say " "
20:35:31  <TrueBrain> I should have removed those replacements all
20:36:38  <frosch123> "es/Manual/Base Set/Road Vehicles/Camiones de Correo" reports "File:Wizzowow_Mail_Truck.png"
20:36:46  <TrueBrain> there is 1 replacement left, that changes "_" into " "
20:37:00  <TrueBrain> owh, but that is not for the link
20:38:18  <frosch123> hmm, oh, but the en/ also went missing
20:38:25  <frosch123> something is very strange here
20:38:43  <TrueBrain> "  |imagen    = Wizzowow_Mail_Truck.png"
20:38:47  <TrueBrain> in my source file
20:38:53  <TrueBrain> so the error is correct
20:39:19  <TrueBrain> but my source might be outdated with your source, ofc :)
20:39:22  <frosch123> oh, so the issue is that i did not rerun the check after some fix?
20:39:53  <TrueBrain> well, the file doesn't mutate on its own, so that is a question for your bash history :)
20:39:53  <frosch123> yeah, wrong input file
20:40:16  <frosch123> down to 14k2 :)
20:40:27  <TrueBrain> pfew, happy it wasn't me :P I had so many replaces for the weirdest mediawiki shit :)
20:40:39  <TrueBrain> well, 50% in 1 day ..
20:40:44  <TrueBrain> keep that up, and you will be done ... never
20:40:45  <TrueBrain> dammit
20:40:46  <TrueBrain> euh .. :P
20:42:22  <TrueBrain> I think tomorrow I will spend some time fixing those {{SERVER}} thingies, if you haven't tackled that already
20:43:15  <TrueBrain> And check out the image errors :)
20:46:12  <frosch123> pff, the pl translator translated yet another historic page
20:47:25  <frosch123> TrueBrain: pushed an update.
20:47:30  <frosch123> i am not going to look at SERVER
20:47:42  <frosch123> but i'll look at more missing images
20:49:11  <TrueBrain> W00p
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20:59:55  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/grfcodec] LordAro opened pull request #9: Fix various issues with MinGW build
21:02:58  <TrueBrain> I see you had fun :p
21:03:34  *** nielsm has quit IRC
21:03:35  <LordAro> just a little
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21:16:31  <frosch123> LordAro: does changing "strncpy(dest, src, n);" to "strncpy(dest, src, n-1);" in safestrncpy help?
21:16:44  <frosch123> (may require moving the silly n>0 check
21:17:30  <frosch123> otherwise -Wstringop-truncation seems to be about "don't use strncpy", but that is also the reason "safestrncpy" exists...
21:19:39  <LordAro> frosch123: it does for the first one, but for the second it just results in "output may be truncated copying 1 byte from a string of length 2"
21:20:53  <frosch123> but MAXDRIVE is 3...
21:22:29  <LordAro> it's difficult to tell from all the inlining - the warning is only triggered with -O2
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21:22:42  <LordAro> could it be the `dest[n-1] = 0` causing it?
21:24:56  <LordAro> ...uninlining the function manually also makes the warning go away
21:25:49  <frosch123> maybe MAXDRIVE is defined in some header?
21:26:03  <frosch123> so it is defined as 3 or as 2 in different places?
21:26:45  <frosch123> grfcomm.cpp includes path.h with some ifdef
21:26:53  <frosch123> does that include mingw?
21:28:21  <LordAro> nope, definitely 3 - reading preprocessed source
21:28:39  <frosch123> that #if around "path.h" is bonkers
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21:28:46  <frosch123> it uses MAXDRIVE and friends unconditionally
21:28:54  <frosch123> so it assumes they are defined somewhere else?
21:29:17  <LordAro> well, they're definied in path.h
21:30:29  <frosch123> did you read the preprocessor source of grfcomm.cpp?
21:30:35  <frosch123> where is MAXDRIVE defined?
21:30:45  <LordAro> it's a define
21:30:54  <LordAro> but it's definitely getting expanded to 3
21:31:02  <frosch123> but there is in an #if :p
21:31:17  <LordAro> where?
21:31:27  <frosch123> grfcomm.cpp:25
21:31:54  <LordAro> WIN32 is very definitely defined on MINGW :p
21:32:54  <frosch123> that #if is still stupid. why would it not include path.h when unconditionally using macros and functions defined there?
21:33:45  <LordAro> you're trying to rationalise decisions made for a poorly-maintained 20 year old C++ program :p
21:34:27  <frosch123> oh, this file is core grfcodec. it's C, not C++. and written by an assembler guy
21:34:40  <LordAro> or that
21:35:07  <frosch123> patchman uses a lot more spaces than dalestan :)
21:35:32  <LordAro> mm, you'd think dalestan was severely limited on disk space
21:36:30  <frosch123> you know why C uses "==" for comparison and "=" for assignment? :)
21:36:42  <TrueBrain> funny .. when editing templates which include the template itself, the aggressive caching of mediawiki causes it to not update after edit :D
21:37:09  <frosch123> TrueBrain: yes, that's a big annoyance. i always have to make a second change
21:37:33  <TrueBrain> well, TrueWiki doesn't have that issue :P
21:37:39  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i think it's a weird way to prevent infinite recursions
21:37:47  <TrueBrain> it does in preview btw .. which is an interesting bug on its own :)
21:37:56  <TrueBrain> I just think they forgot to invalidate their cache :P
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21:42:33  <frosch123> pff. 1000 Talk and User pages :p
21:43:33  <frosch123> TrueBrain: btw. this was no option with gollum. but do you want .mediawiki pages for uploads?
21:43:55  <TrueBrain> is there ever anything interesting there?
21:43:57  <frosch123> or do you treat File: as pure uploaded files, without descriptions or whatever
21:44:17  <frosch123> there are translation links :p
21:44:27  <frosch123> no idea whether that counts as "interesting"
21:44:28  <TrueBrain> it sounds really useless to me, honestly
21:44:53  <TrueBrain> I mean .. do you really expect that you click an image and read something more than you did on the Page you saw the image?
21:45:25  <TrueBrain> so personally I would expect File to be pure uploads ... but I am not a wiki expert, and I might be totally wrong
21:45:32  <TrueBrain> LordAro: convince us otherwise!
21:45:50  <frosch123> TrueBrain: on wikipedia it contains the license of the image, etc
21:46:00  <frosch123> but our editors do not understand licenses
21:46:12  <TrueBrain> haha, no, that is very true :)
21:46:17  <TrueBrain> and most images are screenshots of OpenTTD
21:46:22  <TrueBrain> so that license is pretty obvious
21:46:45  <TrueBrain> unless you have an example on our current wiki that shows it is useful .. I would just not bother honestly
21:46:52  <TrueBrain> on the other hand, it is a small effort to port those over too
21:47:02  <TrueBrain> but ... opinionated wiki, remember :)
21:47:15  <frosch123> :)
21:48:29  <TrueBrain> I think I removed all fullurl/localurl/SERVER entries
21:48:35  <TrueBrain> but I would need a new export from you to confirm :)
21:48:46  <frosch123> ... somehow that ":)" just reminded me about planetmaker always using ":-)" ... and now there is this term "opinionated smiley" in my head :/
21:48:59  <TrueBrain> hahaha :D I get what you mean :)
21:51:23  <TrueBrain> searching the wiki itself shows a few more instance of SERVER, but I think those are not exported :)
21:51:59  <TrueBrain> " Further instructions can be found in [// older version of this article]."  <- wtf is this for bullshit?
21:52:11  <TrueBrain> who ... does that?
21:52:59  <TrueBrain> BBBYYYEEEEEEEE, I said to that part of the article
21:54:02  <TrueBrain> frosch123: would you be able to modify the "hash" part too, btw?
21:54:07  <TrueBrain> as in, #title stuff?
21:54:21  <TrueBrain> as TrueWiki simply slugifies them, where mediawiki did ... something
21:54:39  <frosch123> yes, but i would have to undo whatever mediawiki does
21:54:46  <TrueBrain> I think that is not needed
21:54:49  <TrueBrain> pip install python-slugify
21:54:52  <TrueBrain> is the lib I use
21:54:59  <TrueBrain> and I think if you just slugify what-ever is now behind the hash
21:55:02  <TrueBrain> it work for 90% of the pages
21:55:15  <TrueBrain> possibly urldecode it first
21:57:41  <frosch123> i started a new export, but i still do not plan to make it incremental :p
21:58:08  <TrueBrain> weird :P
21:59:13  <LordAro> TrueBrain: it is quite annoying when i encounter various things that assume .png (or whatever) is an image and tries to load the html page as an image
21:59:44  <TrueBrain> not follow, sorry
22:00:07  <TrueBrain> "various things" is a bit unspecific, and allows me to read your sentence in several ways :P
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22:08:31  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I am removing hard-links to now .. we have many of those .. often very silly
22:09:15  <frosch123> that sounds like something the conversion could do
22:09:49  <TrueBrain> not really, as I have seen so far
22:10:19  <TrueBrain> well, you would be adding a case for each of them almost :P
22:10:29  <frosch123> ok :p
22:11:00  <frosch123> <- i mean cases like that
22:11:36  <TrueBrain> yeah, but those are the rare ones
22:11:43  <TrueBrain>
22:11:46  <TrueBrain> this is more what I find :P
22:12:19  <frosch123> ah, i think those are from before the 2010 wiki update :p
22:12:40  <TrueBrain>
22:12:47  <TrueBrain> or this ..
22:14:11  <frosch123> want to add a check to truewiki? "do not link to the wiki using external links"
22:14:21  <TrueBrain> I think that would be a good feature :)
22:14:49  <frosch123> hmm, is it possible to put relative urls into external links?
22:14:56  <TrueBrain> also lots of people that did not know :File: links to the file
22:15:00  <TrueBrain> yes
22:15:04  <TrueBrain> hmm
22:15:06  <TrueBrain> no, not
22:15:12  <TrueBrain> not by their own specs, anyway
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22:27:42  <TrueBrain> frosch123: can you sed in your export?
22:28:45  <frosch123> just that one? how often does it appear? :p
22:28:52  <TrueBrain> 20+ times
22:28:54  <TrueBrain> as example
22:29:23  <frosch123> 37 times :)
22:30:09  <TrueBrain> didn't feel like editing that 37 times :P
22:30:38  <frosch123> added it to the list :)
22:30:48  <TrueBrain> cheers
22:31:06  <TrueBrain> right, I most likely missed a few, but I will check that again when-ever that sed has ran :D
22:31:49  <TrueBrain> was looking at the diff, because .. I was bored I guess?
22:31:59  <TrueBrain> -|Image        = Grfcrawler vehicles.png
22:31:59  <TrueBrain> -|Name1        = [[en/Community/NewGRF/2cc TrainSet|2cc - Trains of the World]]
22:32:03  <TrueBrain> +|Image        =en/Grfcrawler vehicles.png|Name1        = [[en/Community/NewGRF/2cc TrainSet|2cc - Trains of the World]]
22:32:08  <TrueBrain> it is not wrong or broken, but is this intended?
22:32:41  <TrueBrain> happens a lot :)
22:32:47  <frosch123> well, wikitextparser includes the leading and trailing whitespace in the parameter
22:32:57  <frosch123> and i replace the parameter value
22:32:59  <TrueBrain> yeah ... I have a lot of strip() :D
22:33:18  <frosch123> that 7k reduction from earlier was adding a strip() :)
22:33:44  <frosch123> i did not know a page named "Grfcrawler vehicles.png\n" :p
22:33:50  <TrueBrain> :D
22:34:07  <TrueBrain> well, maybe check if there was a \n in the original, and add one with the replacement?
22:34:17  <TrueBrain> might be nice to not completely mangle the mediawiki files :D
22:35:33  <frosch123> ok, i'll try :)
22:36:23  <TrueBrain> hmm .. some other errors we currently get we can easily fix in post
22:36:35  <TrueBrain> 's/center|none/center/g' is one of those :P
22:38:37  <TrueBrain> and for good measure, 's/none|center/none/g' .. at least, I think ..
22:38:42  <TrueBrain> hard to know what mediawiki does in the end :P
22:39:34  <TrueBrain> yeah, I have that right
22:39:40  <TrueBrain> frosch123: can you already integrate those 2 seds in your export?
22:40:35  <frosch123> hmm, do you mean \| ?
22:40:40  <TrueBrain> also the variation with "center" -> "right"
22:40:42  <TrueBrain> no, I mean |
22:40:48  <TrueBrain> [[Image:Helicopter.png|right|none|frame|]]
22:41:09  <TrueBrain> that "none" doesn't do anything, basically
22:41:10  <frosch123> well, i can never remember what chars need escaping and which need unescaping :p
22:41:20  <TrueBrain> owh, sorry, I did not try the sed
22:41:25  <TrueBrain> possibly you need to escape shit, yes :D
22:41:26  <TrueBrain> haha
22:41:27  <TrueBrain> oops :)
22:42:26  <TrueBrain> no, do not escape it! DO NOT ESCAPE IT :P
22:42:27  <TrueBrain> haha
22:42:28  <frosch123> basic regex and extended regex are difficult :)
22:42:30  <TrueBrain> that went .. horribly wrong :P
22:42:37  <frosch123> add/remove \ until it works
22:42:39  <TrueBrain> sed -i 's/center|none/center/g' Page///*.mediawiki
22:42:42  <TrueBrain> that does what I expect :)
22:42:50  <TrueBrain> you can also fix it via wikitextparser btw
22:42:56  <TrueBrain> check if they are both in there, and remove the last one
22:43:01  <TrueBrain> but that "last one"  might be tricky
22:43:02  <frosch123> well, i do it in python anyway, no sed
22:43:21  <TrueBrain> you use "re"  or "regex" library?
22:43:25  <frosch123> re
22:43:36  <frosch123> but also wikitextparser
22:43:43  <andythenorth> is bedtime?
22:43:43  <frosch123> only re where wtp fails
22:43:46  <andythenorth> is bedtime
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22:44:02  <frosch123> of re inside wtp
22:44:05  <frosch123> *or
22:44:09  <TrueBrain> well, if you could look to implement this in your export, would be nice; otherwise we can do it post
22:44:12  <TrueBrain> it is not the worst problem
22:44:19  <TrueBrain> just an easy way to fix N of these errors :P
22:45:07  <frosch123> my original plan was to apply the conversions on the full history, so images/links also work on older revisions. but for some changes that is weird :)
22:45:24  <TrueBrain> like?
22:45:39  <TrueBrain> owh, like this change ..
22:45:49  <TrueBrain> yeah, some changes just need to be a commit on top of the export tbh
22:45:53  <TrueBrain> "Fixing broken shit" :P
22:45:55  <frosch123> well, also the "remove edit link"
22:46:05  <TrueBrain> yeah, those are all post-fixes
22:46:20  <frosch123> well, i guess my script needs to learn post-fixes then :)
22:46:23  <TrueBrain> either click 37 times in the mediawiki interface, or a separate commit :P
22:46:32  <TrueBrain> your script will be huge :P
22:46:52  <TrueBrain> okay, I think I fixed most of the things I can fix
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22:47:34  <frosch123> the scripts are smaller than their parameter files :)
22:47:42  <TrueBrain> :D
22:49:28  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I do assume you don't plan to export the whole of the history; just of those files you marked as interesting? :D
22:50:04  <TrueBrain> as in, you move the files to their new location from commit 1, right?
22:50:10  <TrueBrain> (and trash those we don't care about)
22:51:04  <frosch123> yes, deleted files do not exist in the history
22:51:09  <TrueBrain> cool
22:52:28  <TrueBrain> hmm .. making a "top 10" list of wiki pages accessed is tricky, because of the many ways you can access a single page :P
22:52:31  <frosch123> i also retroactively remove all redirects :)
22:52:48  <TrueBrain> yeah, so the history is already not really what the page was
22:52:54  <TrueBrain> it is already modified to work with TrueWiki :)
22:53:12  <frosch123> exactly, but the changes are only syntax, not content
22:53:25  <TrueBrain> yeah, content we can do in post, each their own commit or what-ever
22:53:26  <TrueBrain> sounds good
22:54:22  <TrueBrain> oef, scanning 90 days for wiki access turns out to be a lot of data to process :D
22:55:41  <frosch123> is the wiki used? or is everything from us and the pl translators?
22:56:07  <TrueBrain> it is used a lot :)
22:56:08  <frosch123> i guess api.php is pretty high on the list :p
22:56:31  <TrueBrain> hmm .. api.php is not in the list of today
22:56:35  <TrueBrain> which is a bit odd :P
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22:57:40  <TrueBrain> ah, they are unique
22:57:45  <TrueBrain> so they don't show up in any top NN
22:58:38  <frosch123> yeah, i do get's with urlparam
22:58:47  <frosch123> -'
23:03:11  <frosch123> ninght
23:03:13  <frosch123> night
23:03:15  <TrueBrain> night
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23:06:42  <TrueBrain> and for frosch123 when he gets back online:
23:10:35  <TrueBrain> given how those URLs look, I guess I will configure something on AWS to redirect them as good as we can for a while .. on the other hand .. fuck that, search-engines will update fast enough anyway :P
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