Log for #openttd on 3rd November 2020:
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02:30:07  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Montandalar commented on issue #7831: Crash on placing vehicle in group that used to contain 1 vehicle
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09:29:13  <TrueBrain> oops, found a bunch more pages that are not in the current wiki export ... missing templates that are included :D
09:29:20  <TrueBrain> they were not reported yet :P
11:16:16  <TrueBrain> right ... after first startup, startup times are now a lot better :D w00p .. I think I found a clean way to cache all this metadata stuff :P
11:24:45  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #7831: Crash on placing vehicle in group that used to contain 1 vehicle
11:24:46  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #7831: Crash on placing vehicle in group that used to contain 1 vehicle
11:41:38  <FLHerne> > In addition, \<hex> (up to two characters) inserts the byte <hex>, and \U<hex> (up to four characters) inserts the UTF-8 encoding of the character U+<hex>
11:42:05  <FLHerne> How does grfcodec know when it's got to the end of 'up to'?
11:47:12  * FLHerne tries to read the code, but asks anyway in case it's in two places or incomprehensible
11:47:58  <FLHerne> If it's only the version in readinfo.cpp, it's actually surprisingly readable...
11:59:17  <FLHerne> ...
12:00:02  <FLHerne> `ctoi` returns the numeric value of a hex digit, e.g. 11 for 'b' and 0 for '0'
12:00:13  <FLHerne> It *also* returns 0 in case of failure
12:01:27  <FLHerne> So each caller has to do `if (ctoi(ch) == 0 && ch != 0) ...`
12:01:43  <FLHerne> If only there were more than 16 numbers
12:02:16  <FLHerne> Perhaps they were introduced in the same reality-update as spaces
12:04:26  <FLHerne> * != '0'
12:11:53  <Eddi|zuHause> that's basically like "on error resume next"?
12:25:12  <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Sorry, I have no idea what you just said :p
12:25:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i meant the "treat all errors as 0"
12:26:22  <FLHerne> I suppose it would be, except the callers then go out of their way to not do that
12:28:35  <Eddi|zuHause> some egoistic dick saying "it's faster this way" making it worse for everyone else
12:30:45  <Eddi|zuHause> from a software engineering perspective, the solution here should be that the function is never called with invalid characters in the first place
12:32:33  <Eddi|zuHause> so treat "ch is a valid hex digit" as a precondition
12:33:10  <FLHerne> That, or return -1
12:33:31  <FLHerne> Or literally anything else that's not in the range 0-15...
12:33:38  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm assuming here that you can't change the function
12:33:46  <FLHerne> Well, it's grfcodec
12:34:02  <FLHerne> I'm only reading it because I wanted to know what the behaviour was
13:30:32  <TrueBrain> that was your mistake honestly :P
13:30:33  <TrueBrain> :D
13:32:03  <Eddi|zuHause> still, i maintain that with this function the "correct" approach is to make it a strict precondition, rather than trying to figure out whether there was an error after the fact
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14:06:19  <TrueBrain> right, editing pages that takes 10+ seconds before the metadata is updated, is no longer blocking the web :)
14:06:31  <TrueBrain> it does its thing in the background now :)
14:14:30  <TrueBrain> these small QoL changes consume a lot of LoC :P
14:32:21  <TrueBrain> I am honestly still surprised I can do "FROM" in images that come from Docker Hub on GitHub Actions .. I am just waiting for that rate limiter to hit honestly :P
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14:58:41  <arikover> andythenorth: Thank you for Iron Horse 2.9.0! I added a PR for the french translation.
14:59:15  * andythenorth reads
14:59:56  <andythenorth> "Ouaip" :)
15:00:18  * andythenorth learns a thing
15:01:12  <andythenorth> merged
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15:21:20  <TrueBrain> so 2.9.1 incoming? :P
15:26:06  <andythenorth> you guessed
15:26:25  * andythenorth ponders dynamic translations for newgrf, no release :P
15:26:34  <andythenorth> could never work
15:27:08  <longtomjr> Might work for gs
15:37:47  <TrueBrain> "please send in a chat message the base64 encoded translation you would like to use"
15:37:48  <TrueBrain> :D
15:37:54  <TrueBrain> what could POSSIBLY go wrong :D
15:43:01  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: maybe give it a week in case more translations trickle in?
15:43:29  <andythenorth> could do
15:43:34  <andythenorth> releases are cheap-ish
15:43:34  <TrueBrain> or two weeks
15:43:37  <TrueBrain> or a month
15:44:05  <andythenorth> TrueBrain you trying to keep AWS costs down?
15:44:08  <andythenorth> :P
15:44:20  <TrueBrain> YES! That is the excuse why I am trolling :P
15:46:26  <TrueBrain> right, lets see if the wiki wants to start on staging ..
15:47:04  <Eddi|zuHause> anyone know why my wine has no sound?
15:47:41  <TrueBrain> because you are suppose to drink it?
15:47:51  <Eddi|zuHause> oh... it's some pulseaudio shenanigans where it picks the wrong device
15:48:44  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I am going to request credits again on the AWS Open Source plan .. how will it go this year you think?
15:48:51  <TrueBrain> I have to remember what I filled in last year ...
15:49:58  <andythenorth> copy-paste-send
15:50:23  <TrueBrain> I need to find my IRC logs back for that :P
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16:02:21  <longtomjr> Credits?
16:02:38  <longtomjr> Aaah, did you get credits last year?
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16:14:54  <TrueBrain> luckily enough we did
16:14:59  <TrueBrain> otherwise we wouldn't be this far in the migration tbfh :)
16:17:11  <TrueBrain> lol .. I always love the AWS calculator
16:17:18  <TrueBrain> it always give me these numbers that are not realistic
16:26:09  <TrueBrain> right ... filled in the form .. now to wait for andythenorth 's feedback if my text is good enough :P (he is much better in convincing people to give us money)
16:26:21  <TrueBrain> requested twice as much funds this year as last .. will see if they like us enough :)
16:29:29  <longtomjr> :)
16:29:50  <longtomjr> What is used to make up the difference?
16:30:00  <TrueBrain> what difference? :P
16:30:07  <TrueBrain> but say we would run out, donations
16:31:04  <TrueBrain> the main thing we currently cannot afford, is serving 1% of the BaNaNaS entries .. the 1% costs like 300 euro a month
16:31:15  <TrueBrain> so without AWS's support, we would to find an alternative means for that
16:31:21  <TrueBrain> either by dirt-cheap VPS from OVH
16:31:24  <TrueBrain> or .. by stop hosting it :P
16:31:50  <TrueBrain> otherwise we haven't had to need to hold a fundraiser in ... years and years
16:31:58  <TrueBrain> and mostly OpenTTD donates to tt-forums
16:32:22  <TrueBrain> (as you might have spotted, we nowhere actively request for donations .. yet people are more than kind enough to donate sufficient funds a year for us to pay bills)
16:32:53  <longtomjr> Yep, to be honest I had to go look for it now, have never seen a donation link or anything.
16:33:28  <longtomjr> Wait, these OVH vms are cheap, what is the catch?
16:33:39  <TrueBrain> not much .. well, unmanaged hosting
16:33:44  <TrueBrain> I guess that is the catch
16:34:30  <longtomjr> I can save  a month on my current openttd server hosting, and not have to resort to using swap. That is almost halving my costs.
16:35:33  <TrueBrain> the idea of the AWS migration was to get away from unmanaged hosting .. as I don't have the time, and nobody seems to care enough to help out :P
16:35:44  <TrueBrain> but .. managed hosting costs more money, especially on traffic
16:36:05  <TrueBrain> it is worth that money honestly :)
16:36:30  <longtomjr> Yep
16:36:46  <TrueBrain> okay, wiki is "running", login just fails :P
16:36:49  <TrueBrain>
16:38:39  <longtomjr> Let me know once that works :)
16:39:47  <TrueBrain> ah, found the issue .. spaces :D
16:39:53  <TrueBrain> well, staging is nothing to do any work on
16:40:00  <TrueBrain> every change is COMPLETELY forgotten every restart
16:40:02  <longtomjr> Yep, but testing right
16:40:15  <longtomjr> I can try breaking it?
16:40:34  <TrueBrain> yes you can
16:40:44  <TrueBrain> I haven't done a check myself, so I am pretty sure you can break it easily :)
16:41:07  <longtomjr> Is there specific things that I should be testing?
16:41:22  <TrueBrain> nope
16:41:26  <TrueBrain> I just wanted to bring it online tbh
16:41:37  <TrueBrain> wanted to see how the resources etc are doing :)
16:41:47  <longtomjr> Ah ok, so I should do a lot of clicking
16:41:55  <longtomjr> or start a bot farm
16:42:27  <TrueBrain> honestly, not sure if testing is useful atm :)
16:42:31  <TrueBrain> we know there are broken links etc
16:42:36  <TrueBrain> right, login fixes
16:43:06  <longtomjr> Cool, works
16:43:19  <TrueBrain> clearly it needs better caching, that is for sure
16:43:23  <longtomjr> Ok, let me know once testing will be more usefull
16:43:43  <TrueBrain> will do! Tnx :)
16:43:48  <TrueBrain> owh, I love sentry ..
16:43:54  <TrueBrain> seems someone triggered a boo-boo :)
16:44:11  <longtomjr> I clicked back when the login was still broken from the login screen
16:44:16  <longtomjr> gave me a 500
16:44:17  <TrueBrain> (any server error you receive doesn't need reporting; I know quicker what is going on than you can type :P)
16:44:25  <TrueBrain> yeah .. I made a boo-boo there :)
16:44:43  <TrueBrain> seems bananas-api has the same boo-boo, so that is interesting :)
16:44:54  <longtomjr> Hehe, I should get sentry up for our application, or just do it manually with our logging stack and alertmanger + pagerduty
16:45:19  <TrueBrain> sentry makes my life so much easier ...
16:45:24  <TrueBrain> people not always report error pages
16:45:29  <TrueBrain> and if they do, you have to figure out what caused it
16:45:35  <TrueBrain> with sentry .. often in minutes I found out what is going on
16:45:49  <TrueBrain> like this exception .. it is so obvious from the sentry report
16:45:54  <longtomjr> Negatives of working for a startup is that paying services are not always an option.
16:46:10  <TrueBrain> but sentry is worth any money, honestly
16:47:08  <longtomjr> Gonna be a hard sell at that price currently, I got our staging cluster to be cheaper than it.
16:47:21  <longtomjr> Hmm, maybe I can get the board interested since this is a metric they might want to see
16:47:30  <longtomjr> that might be my angle to get this approved
16:48:36  <TrueBrain> it is 26 dollar a month
16:48:43  <TrueBrain> honestly, if a startup cannot pay that ...
16:49:06  <longtomjr> Yep I know, but there is a lot of saas stuff already on our bill
16:49:11  <TrueBrain> you going home 10 minutes early costs more :P
16:49:26  <TrueBrain> but anyway, I love Sentry :)
16:49:28  <longtomjr> They can pay it, but they try to be conservative
16:49:59  <longtomjr> So it is more about justifying the costs, otherwise it can get out of hand.
16:50:09  <longtomjr> Anyways, will give sentry a try for sure :)
16:50:33  <TrueBrain> it is free for Open Source, so that made it a lot easier for OpenTTD :D
16:50:45  <longtomjr> Oh wait, all of our stuff is FOSS
16:50:46  <TrueBrain> right .. staging shows I need to fix caching by .. a lot :P
16:50:55  <longtomjr> So we can get it for free then
16:51:03  <TrueBrain> yup
16:51:48  <TrueBrain> 17ms to generate and transmit the manual page .. lol
16:52:28  <longtomjr> You can probably just render server side and only update the cache when the page were edited right?
16:52:31  <TrueBrain> just that images are not cached is annoying while browsing :)
16:52:42  <TrueBrain> there most likely will be 2 "instances" of the wiki
16:52:44  <TrueBrain> 1 where you edit
16:52:49  <TrueBrain> which does client-side caching
16:52:51  <TrueBrain> and 1 where you view
16:52:56  <TrueBrain> which is most likely a prerender of everything
16:53:17  <longtomjr> Prerender just need to be updated if any linked templates etc change
16:53:30  <TrueBrain> yup
16:54:49  <TrueBrain> right, it takes ~40 seconds to clone the GitHub repository ... hmm .. I think I will cache that in EFS
16:54:54  <longtomjr> do you know how long it takes the render the whole wiki
16:54:59  <TrueBrain> ~10 minutes
16:55:10  <TrueBrain> and most of that is CPU-bound work
16:55:45  <TrueBrain> I/O seems to cost ~2 seconds .. lol ..
16:56:11  <longtomjr> Are you trying to get the startup sequence to be quicker?
16:56:31  <TrueBrain> if/when the container starts to flip/flop, there might be an issue
16:56:40  <TrueBrain> as that means it will pull 500MB from GitHub every N minutes
16:56:58  <TrueBrain> I am not the biggest fan of that
16:57:07  <TrueBrain> startup of 40 seconds is fine; they have 5 minutes to start up basically
16:57:24  <TrueBrain> but this is an aiohttp application .. crashing it, is REALLY difficult honestly
16:58:07  <TrueBrain> so I might just leave it for now
16:58:42  <longtomjr> I mean as long as the container does not report ready untill it is done, and you have some replicas it should be fine
16:59:44  <TrueBrain> this won't have a replica, but it is fine nevertheless :)
17:00:02  <TrueBrain> it only reports ready if HTTP starts to response, which is after the GitHub repo is cloned
17:00:26  <TrueBrain> it currently cannot have a replica, as sessions are stored in memory
17:00:35  <TrueBrain> for the "edit" server, that is fine
17:00:39  <TrueBrain> the view part needs replicas :)
17:01:35  <longtomjr> Sessions?
17:01:40  <TrueBrain> if you login
17:01:41  <TrueBrain> session
17:01:42  <TrueBrain> :)
17:02:08  <longtomjr> Why do you need that?
17:02:16  <TrueBrain> because it is easier to implement
17:02:22  <TrueBrain> I need to check out encrypted cookies
17:02:24  <TrueBrain> which solves that problem
17:02:29  <TrueBrain> but .. something with priorities :)
17:03:09  <TrueBrain> but if sessions are not in memory, I can make an EFS share for the data, and 2 "edit" servers can run next to each other
17:03:14  <TrueBrain> that would be neat :)
17:03:26  <TrueBrain> just ... no need .. as if the "edit" server is down, nobody really cares :P
17:03:31  <TrueBrain> it is annoying, but that is about it :)
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17:07:21  <TrueBrain> still not sure how I want to do the "view" part tbh
17:07:37  <TrueBrain> I now have code that detects what file changed in a repo (based on a cache), so I know exactly what files to invalidate
17:08:27  <longtomjr> And you know which templates link to which pages and other templates?
17:08:42  <TrueBrain> yup
17:08:48  <TrueBrain> I know exactly what is no longer valid
17:08:57  <TrueBrain> so I am thinking just pushing to S3, CloudFront, done
17:09:07  <TrueBrain> and after new upload, send a /** cache invalidation to CloudFront
17:09:21  <TrueBrain> might be the easiest thing to do ..
17:09:29  <TrueBrain> lol @ spammers ... this email ... let me see if I can share it ..
17:09:46  <longtomjr> ah CloudFront is their CDN
17:10:04  <longtomjr> Yep, that makes sense, I though object storage -> CDN as well as the simplest
17:10:20  <TrueBrain> yeah, there are a few things that need to be considered
17:10:26  <TrueBrain> for example, when you go to a page that doesn't exist
17:10:30  <TrueBrain> it should give you the option to edit it
17:10:34  <TrueBrain> so that is a bit tricky :)
17:10:42  <TrueBrain> Lambda@Edge, but .. I need to see how that works :)
17:11:00  <TrueBrain> pretty sure for v1 I just start an "edit" server :P
17:12:19  <longtomjr> So data flows from EditServer -> S3 -> CDN -> Lambda 'server' -> Browser?
17:12:39  <TrueBrain> Lambda@Edge is like CloudFlare workers
17:12:46  <TrueBrain> they sit on either end of the CDN
17:12:57  <TrueBrain> but for v1, I am just going to launch what is now on staging
17:13:05  <TrueBrain> it is not the fastest, but it will be fine
17:13:21  <TrueBrain> after that, a GitHub Actions that renders all pages, uploads to S3, CloudFront serves these pages
17:13:27  <TrueBrain> a Lambda@Edge checks if the page exists on S3
17:13:33  <TrueBrain> if not, returns a "Edit this page"
17:13:42  <TrueBrain> login points to or something
17:13:50  <TrueBrain> but, not for now
17:13:53  <TrueBrain> now first this:
17:14:04  <TrueBrain> that last line cracked me up
17:14:37  <longtomjr> Uuuhg yep
17:14:39  <longtomjr> lol
17:15:11  <TrueBrain> I wonder what the success rate is, honestly
17:15:14  <TrueBrain> anyway, dinner time
17:15:19  <longtomjr> Yep, also, Android released 12 years ago
17:15:25  <longtomjr> so at least they did some homework
17:19:18  <TrueBrain> Often they email us follow up emails for 4 months
17:19:30  <longtomjr> uugh
17:19:31  <TrueBrain> This is on info@ of OpenTTD btw
17:19:43  <longtomjr> same email address?
17:19:49  <longtomjr> sender
17:19:54  <TrueBrain> We had those in the past, yes
17:20:06  <TrueBrain> We will see how much of a spammer this dude is :)
17:20:19  <TrueBrain> Sorry: supplied of unwanted email
17:20:28  <TrueBrain> Supplier.. typing hard
17:22:13  <andythenorth> are we buying an app?
17:22:25  <longtomjr> True wiki needs a mobile app yep
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17:22:39  <longtomjr> so we need to get on that, or outsource it
17:27:30  <andythenorth> if only someone would offer the service
17:43:20  <TrueBrain> I would appreciate it if they send us an email making the offer
17:47:33  <andythenorth> me too
17:47:37  <andythenorth> but I never check email
17:47:45  <andythenorth> I do get these things on linkedin sometimes
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17:54:20  <andythenorth> something something Github Archive Program
17:54:26  <andythenorth> GH sent me a message
17:56:15  <longtomjr> To add your grfs to the arctic vault?
17:56:26  <andythenorth> OpenTTD stuff
17:56:30  <andythenorth> I didn't read it properly
17:56:40  <longtomjr> we need good train and industry sets after the apocolypse
18:11:10  <longtomjr> we will also need a spellchecker
18:11:53  <andythenorth> slow cloudfront invalidation is slow
18:12:07  <frosch123> which language are we going to establish after the apocalypse?
18:12:11  <andythenorth> perl
18:12:17  <andythenorth> obvs.
18:12:27  <longtomjr> some lisp dialect
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18:12:45  <longtomjr> since that is probably what the universe is coded in
18:12:51  * andythenorth must release Iron Horse
18:12:59  <andythenorth> who wrote this bananas HTML eh?
18:13:03  <frosch123> did you find some unbalanced parantheses?
18:13:10  <FLHerne> Nah, it was meant to be, but it's really kludged together in Perl
18:13:10  <andythenorth> kinda
18:13:14  <FLHerne> <insert xkcd>
18:13:27  <longtomjr>
18:13:39  <longtomjr> wrong one
18:13:42  <FLHerne>
18:14:03  <andythenorth> frosch123 I genuinely thought you referred to this :P
18:14:04  <andythenorth>
18:14:20  <andythenorth> as I just looked at that commit, and my brain made the wrong connection
18:15:19  <andythenorth> clearly that commit was a lisp coder
18:15:44  <longtomjr> The previous commit
18:16:18  <longtomjr> I know limited amounts of lisp. Enough to keep me out of trouble when hacking emacs
18:16:29  <andythenorth> arikover 2.9.1 now on Bananaas
18:16:40  <frosch123> andythenorth: i worded the question intentionally ambiguous, to see whether someone would suggest esperanto or ido. but i did not expect an iron horse diff :)
18:18:35  <andythenorth> nobody expects the Iron Horse Diff
18:18:59  <frosch123> :)
18:19:34  <frosch123> i saw that sketch the other day, otherwise it would have been to obscure
18:21:30  <longtomjr> Just read up about it, that is quite interesting
18:21:56  <andythenorth> 4 more years
18:21:58  * andythenorth back to trains
18:22:08  <longtomjr> choo choo
18:23:27  <longtomjr> Have the boats been shelved?
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18:32:49  <andythenorth> strictly no
18:33:07  <andythenorth> just fermenting
18:37:50  <longtomjr> Ah oke
18:45:55  <TrueBrain> they just cancelled all our vacations till mid January .. at least that is a rather clear instruction :D
18:48:48  <andythenorth> who they?
18:49:07  <TrueBrain> prime minister, in this case
18:51:11  * andythenorth provides non-covid, non-election news service
18:52:27  <longtomjr> TrueBrain, like vacations to go somewhere?
18:52:34  <longtomjr> or time off?
18:52:54  <TrueBrain> lol, sorry, I was a bit unclear .. in Dutch it is a bit more clear: out-of-country travel :)
18:53:29  <longtomjr> Ah ok
18:54:01  <frosch123> are there exemptions for open-source-meetups?
18:54:17  <TrueBrain> even family visits are not allowed out-of-the-country :)
18:55:03  <frosch123> "yay we longer have to visit out aunt in law"
18:55:07  <frosch123> +no
18:56:06  <TrueBrain> pretty funny how bad journalists were, asking stupid stupid STUPID questions
18:56:26  <TrueBrain> they were like: on what legal base do you not allow us to go out of the country? It is allowed by law!
18:56:37  <TrueBrain> like .. dude ... he is telling you: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't go unless you REALLLYLYYYYYLYLYYLY have to
18:56:58  <longtomjr> Are you in the Netherlands?
18:56:58  <TrueBrain> why does it immediately has to be a law etc ... use your fucking brain or something?
18:57:11  <TrueBrain> owh, if that wasn't clear yet of all the conversations we had, yes, longtomjr  :P
18:57:34  <longtomjr> I just remembered that Flemish and Dutch are 2 different languages
18:57:45  <frosch123> yay, can you disable the "mail from external source"-banner for trusted-unencrypted/unsigned-known customers?
18:57:49  <longtomjr> I should have been able to deduce that
18:57:57  <andythenorth> we have a prime minister
18:58:03  * andythenorth that was all
18:58:09  <TrueBrain> frosch123: lol .. that still going on? :D
18:58:35  <TrueBrain> well, our prime minister took .... not many words to tell the journalist he is an idiot .. just not directly .. in very nice words ..
18:58:48  <TrueBrain> but I like how he can be like: dude .. wtf ... is this what you waste our time with? reallllyyyy???!!!
18:58:53  <TrueBrain> he doesn't say it ... but owh, he does :P
18:59:01  <frosch123> TrueBrain: they even went to the senior ceo. who likely has an assistant to deal with that modern stuff
18:59:10  <TrueBrain> lol
18:59:13  <TrueBrain> popcorn :D
18:59:38  <TrueBrain> in other news: now auto-deploys on pushes to TrueWiki :)
18:59:47  <longtomjr> yaay!
19:00:08  <TrueBrain> as added bonus it logs everyone out :D
19:00:35  <frosch123> TrueBrain: other suggestions were to move the banner to the bottom, to make it less visible
19:00:52  <TrueBrain> as ... that is what it is for .. to make it LESS visible ...
19:00:52  <TrueBrain> lol
19:01:24  <frosch123> i did not detect any troll answers :)
19:01:29  <frosch123> i think they were all serious
19:01:45  <TrueBrain> Chrome renders the wiki a lot better than FireFox ... in Chrome clicking pages is pretty fluent ... in FireFox it is not
19:02:01  <longtomjr> ewww chrome
19:03:04  <longtomjr> code is not set in query-string
19:03:07  <TrueBrain> Firefox keeps randomly forgetting to get things from cache
19:03:19  <longtomjr> Did sentry send you something?
19:03:31  <TrueBrain> no, I fixed the bug, it should give you that page :)
19:03:39  <TrueBrain> as that should only happen if you do something wrong, basically
19:03:57  <longtomjr> What if I want to log in, see the permissions and then click cancel
19:04:11  <TrueBrain> hmm, cancel ... pretty sure that is not a flow we implemented :D
19:04:14  <longtomjr> as in nevermind, take me back to the hompage or where I was before I clicked login
19:04:24  <TrueBrain> I guess you get the same when you do that on :D
19:05:06  <longtomjr> That one gave me a json response
19:05:10  <longtomjr> {"message": "code is not set in query-string"}
19:05:16  <Wolf01> Tanks fixing time
19:05:24  <longtomjr> redirected to
19:05:46  <longtomjr> I think this is a minor issue, just wanted to test if it still happens.
19:05:47  <TrueBrain> longtomjr:
19:06:09  <TrueBrain> as it will be really low on my list to fix, but it is a bug nevertheless :D
19:06:19  <longtomjr> 'good first issue' nudge nudge, wink wink
19:06:29  <TrueBrain> if you are up to it :P
19:07:44  <longtomjr> Hehe might pick it up :)
19:07:54  <longtomjr> For now, gonna go to bed. Night all! o/
19:08:03  <TrueBrain> hmm ... the browser sends an If-Modified-Since .. but the server returns a 200 .. that is odd
19:08:04  <TrueBrain> night!
19:11:15  <TrueBrain> it is so weird how different it works on localhost ... who is doing what to which header ...
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19:15:35  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I btw fixed a bug that was hiding missing templates
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19:15:43  <TrueBrain> so we now have more errors again :(
19:16:13  <TrueBrain> I think the main issue is that {{en/Bla}} currently always tries Template/en/Bla, en not Page/en/Bla
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19:16:18  <TrueBrain> which I think sometimes the intention is
19:17:20  <frosch123> we have transclusion for regular pages?
19:17:30  <TrueBrain> I know mediawiki allows it
19:17:35  <TrueBrain> and I think we have pages like that too
19:17:43  <TrueBrain> but I haven't really looked for a page that does this, honestly
19:17:43  <frosch123> iirc that is a special setting
19:17:57  <frosch123> we enabled it for newgrfspecs, because we had a usecase
19:18:15  <TrueBrain> do I understand you correctly truewiki should not support this? :P
19:18:35  <frosch123> anyway, next release will fix many issues by trashing the pages that use them :p
19:19:33  <frosch123> i think all categories that use {{PAGESINCAT}} are now in the trash list :)
19:19:53  <TrueBrain> I assumed that "Other languages" wasn't going to be in your migration result, no :)
19:20:00  <milek7> wait, what
19:20:02  <milek7> ..what's wrong with asking about legal basis for public official statement?
19:20:25  <TrueBrain> milek7: because YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED !== WE STRONGLY ADVISE AGAINST ?
19:20:42  <TrueBrain> you have to be a REAL SPECIAL journalist if you do not understand that
19:21:09  <andythenorth> can we debate licenses?
19:21:11  <andythenorth> or licenses?
19:21:15  <TrueBrain> @whoami
19:21:15  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: TrueBrain
19:21:18  <andythenorth> or licences
19:21:21  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: sure, we can, I can @kick :)
19:21:30  <andythenorth> 4 more years
19:21:32  <frosch123> how about lisences?
19:21:52  <andythenorth> even better
19:21:59  <TrueBrain> hmm .. did I just render the whole wiki in 4 minutes? That is unusual short ..
19:22:29  <TrueBrain> seems that really was all
19:22:32  <andythenorth> pfff
19:22:41  <andythenorth> I render a whole newgrf faster than that
19:22:51  <TrueBrain> guess frosch123 has been trashing the right pages :P
19:22:52  <andythenorth> you doing it locally?
19:23:05  <TrueBrain> that was locally yes .. but on a single core .. it is a powerful one
19:23:06  <TrueBrain> but a single one
19:23:09  <frosch123> i didn't push since sunday, i think
19:23:17  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I haven't tried this in a week :P
19:23:24  <TrueBrain> you know better most likely how long --validate took
19:24:54  <frosch123> i read some old requests to bundle the wiki as pdf with each release
19:25:06  <TrueBrain> yeah, no
19:25:07  <TrueBrain> but we could :P
19:25:26  <TrueBrain> owh, only 1011 templates are missing
19:25:30  <TrueBrain> that is a lot less than I expected
19:25:57  <frosch123> yeah, working on that
19:26:01  <TrueBrain> <- found one frosch123
19:26:24  <TrueBrain> those scenarios are not templates
19:27:09  <TrueBrain> I fully understand the use-case there btw
19:27:32  <frosch123> oh, i assumed they just linked them
19:27:38  <TrueBrain> nope, they included them
19:28:02  <TrueBrain> well, "they tried to transclude them", to use mediawiki lingo :P
19:28:13  <TrueBrain> supporting it is honestly not difficult
19:28:17  <TrueBrain> check 1 folder, check the next
19:28:31  <TrueBrain> it is more a question of: do we want this behaviour :P
19:29:01  <TrueBrain> this is btw true for all these scenario pages .. they are all not working :)
19:29:17  <TrueBrain> 338 scenario link issues :D
19:29:20  <TrueBrain> (out of the 1011)
19:29:25  <frosch123> well, i put them all into "archive" because i people should use categories
19:29:33  <frosch123> but that was assuming they were just links
19:29:52  <TrueBrain> <- it does look kinda pretty
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19:30:33  <frosch123> i don't like that ambiguity in the template name
19:30:48  <frosch123> can/should we prefix them with ":" or something?
19:31:02  <frosch123> does mediawiki have an disambiguation rule here?
19:31:11  <TrueBrain> Main, in mediawiki case
19:31:14  <TrueBrain> Page in ours
19:31:27  <TrueBrain> we can do that it has to be: {{Page/en/Community/Scenario ...}
19:31:38  <TrueBrain> or Page: for all I care
19:31:47  <TrueBrain> make it explicit you meant a page, and I am happy :)
19:32:00  <frosch123> ok, "Page:" then
19:32:08  <frosch123> with colon, not slash
19:32:20  * andythenorth wonders how long it takes to render a newgrf
19:32:20  <TrueBrain> sounds good to me
19:32:25  <TrueBrain> that makes Template: the implied one
19:32:32  <TrueBrain> where for [[ ]] it is Page: that is implied
19:32:34  <TrueBrain> feels balanced
19:33:10  <supermop_Home> render a newgrf?
19:34:27  <TrueBrain> btw, frosch123 , you cannot have a Category folder in Page
19:34:31  <TrueBrain> or a Page folder in File
19:34:31  <TrueBrain> etc
19:34:41  <TrueBrain> none of these "reserved" words can be the first folder inside these folders
19:34:54  <TrueBrain> so no Page/en/Category
19:35:25  <frosch123> what limits that?
19:35:40  <TrueBrain> my namespace detection on one hand; but I could work around that
19:35:43  <TrueBrain> my sanity on the other hand
19:35:48  <TrueBrain> [[en/Category/Cargo]]
19:35:52  <TrueBrain> that ... just pisses me off :P
19:36:17  <TrueBrain> (it is of course [[Category:en/Cargo]] what is meant there)
19:36:53  <frosch123> but there is always a language code in first place
19:37:01  <frosch123> how would that break the namespace stuff?
19:37:06  <TrueBrain> yeah, and for that same reason you cannot have a namespace called "en" btw :P
19:37:26  <frosch123> yes, but I expected that :)
19:37:39  <TrueBrain> good point, I think I have been testing it wrong .. so the namespace detection should just work fine
19:37:48  <TrueBrain> nevertheless ... please not namespace folders inside other namespaces :P
19:37:49  <frosch123> anyway, i think we have Page:Wiki/Templates  or something
19:38:00  <TrueBrain> that is fine, honestly
19:38:03  <TrueBrain> just not Page:Template
19:38:03  <frosch123> well, Page:en/Wiki/Templates
19:38:27  <TrueBrain> well, Page:en/Template :D
19:38:39  <TrueBrain> but you are right, it shouldn't be an issue
19:39:13  <frosch123> we will find out which language translates "Manual" to "File" :)
19:40:53  <frosch123> i saw some german pages which translated "File" to "Akte" (which is that paper database burocrats had 50 years ago)
19:41:26  <TrueBrain> if we want to be a good boy, we do have to translate our folders etc too
19:41:33  <TrueBrain> s/folders/namespaces/
19:41:46  <TrueBrain> I did not prepare the code for that, but I guess it is not difficult to add
19:41:50  <TrueBrain> just .. do I want to .... :P
19:42:06  <frosch123> wikipedia does that, but it is insanely stupid. you would also have to translate <pre> <i> <div> etc
19:42:40  <frosch123> i think wikitextparser explicitly stated that it does not support localised namespaces :)
19:42:58  <frosch123> just like [[link]]trails
19:43:19  <TrueBrain> fuck those trails
19:43:24  <TrueBrain> they are language depending .. I gave up when reading that
19:43:28  <TrueBrain> that is so insanely stupid
19:44:07  <frosch123> so, either peopl can write english wikitext, or they would only use a wysiwig editor
19:44:59  <TrueBrain> but namespaces are a bit different, as they are also in the URL
19:45:28  <TrueBrain> but I think it is a really bad idea to translate them
19:45:55  <frosch123> yeah, better translate the privacy policy :p
19:53:02  <TrueBrain> okay, code-wise Page: syntax now works :)
19:53:11  <TrueBrain> I guess you have more work finding those links :P
19:53:55  <TrueBrain> do we also want to support {{Category:en/Bla}} ? :)
19:55:16  <frosch123> it would make sense if they were not so long
19:55:32  <TrueBrain> I would say ... you can link it at the bottom, that is good enough? :D
19:55:53  <TrueBrain> well, adding support is simple, but lets minimize the feature-set as much as we can, I would say :)
19:55:58  <frosch123> there are certainly more important things :)
19:56:18  <frosch123> do we support <references> though?
19:56:33  <frosch123> i forgot whether that is standard meanwhile, or still an extension
19:56:34  <TrueBrain> I did not add support for it yet, as I believe I remove all usages of them :P
19:56:48  <TrueBrain> <templatedata> similar, although that one sounds useful
19:57:00  <TrueBrain> but the only tag currently supported is "gallery" :)
19:57:54  <frosch123> never heard of a <templatedata>, but i also never used a wysiwig editor for wiki :)
19:58:20  <frosch123> <references> is used on the newgrf wiki a lot. so if you ever want to take that over from therudge, we would need it :)
19:58:23  <frosch123> but not now
19:59:05  <TrueBrain> I did not even consider that, lol
19:59:11  <TrueBrain> not a bad idea honestly
19:59:15  <TrueBrain> what does <references> do .. /me reads
19:59:29  <frosch123> footnotes
19:59:34  <TrueBrain> I see
19:59:39  <TrueBrain> well, we can add it easily if needed
19:59:43  <TrueBrain> the infrastructure is there for it
19:59:51  <TrueBrain> mediawiki-tags is modular in wikitexthtml
20:00:03  <frosch123> <- you put <ref id=foo>bar</ref> in the table
20:00:08  <frosch123> and <references/> at the bottom
20:00:08  <TrueBrain> so, not for v1, but when-ever :)
20:00:28  <TrueBrain> just 1 per page, max?
20:00:39  <frosch123> no, as many as you want
20:00:46  <TrueBrain> the <references/> part, I meant
20:00:50  <frosch123> ever <reference> clears the container of previous <ref>
20:00:55  <TrueBrain> ah
20:00:59  <TrueBrain> well, that is easy to implement honestly
20:01:06  <TrueBrain> so lets do that when we get there .. if we get there :D
20:02:05  <TrueBrain> <- all that it took to support {{Page:}} .. most of it was adding boilerplate :)
20:08:08  <frosch123> hmm, i like the templates directory
20:08:25  <frosch123> it's like regular web frameworks, but with .mediawiki extension
20:08:41  <TrueBrain> :D
20:09:06  <TrueBrain> hmm ... I think I am going to move wikilink support from wikitexthtml to truewiki repo .. that makes more sense, it just makes wikitexthtml a bit less useful .. hmm
20:09:08  <TrueBrain> choices
20:09:21  <TrueBrain> (always difficult, what to put and what not to put in a library)
20:10:22  <TrueBrain> meh, v1 first
20:13:06  <andythenorth> put books in a library?
20:13:15  <andythenorth> sorry about me :P
20:14:17  <TrueBrain> why would I want books of you in my library? :)
20:16:39  <andythenorth> there are books about me?
20:16:41  <andythenorth> I hope they are nice
20:17:16  <frosch123> they mostly consist of percentages
20:17:20  <frosch123> going up and down
20:20:14  <andythenorth> this is a very realistic video of FIRS Horse
20:20:33  <andythenorth> I like the particle effects they added, but they must be fake
20:21:58  <andythenorth> I think they original is better though
20:23:22  <frosch123> i didn't know they just bash it until everything comes out
20:23:29  <TrueBrain> I am still amazed you can draw that .... I cannot draw shit :P
20:23:50  <andythenorth> I can code shit
20:23:53  <andythenorth> I can code shit code
20:24:00  <TrueBrain> I promise you, you can code better than I can draw :D
20:24:07  <andythenorth> I practiced :P
20:24:13  <andythenorth> what I tell my kids
20:24:15  <TrueBrain> hmm ... wikipedia indexes where files are being used
20:24:17  <andythenorth> just keep frigging doing it
20:24:22  <TrueBrain> that sounds useful to have
20:24:55  <frosch123> yes, it's about the only useful Special: page :p
20:25:07  <frosch123> not sure whether you want to add "Special:" though...
20:25:39  <frosch123> definitely do not allow transcluding Special: pages :)
20:26:19  <TrueBrain> <- it is there too
20:26:24  <TrueBrain> so I was planning on adding it there
20:26:35  <TrueBrain> I was already planning on doing the same with pages
20:28:44  <TrueBrain> we cannot track files over different languages, can we?
20:32:43  <frosch123> no, that would need those File: pages :)
20:33:33  <frosch123> actually, that was the only use case we listed the other day, when discussing whether we want File: pages :p
20:33:47  <TrueBrain> yeah, I was sure we already talked about this :P
20:34:09  <frosch123> do you want them?
20:34:49  <TrueBrain> I still really do not know, honestly
20:35:07  <frosch123> just tell me where you want them :) mixed with the uploads? "File/foo.mediawiki" + "File/foo.png"? or separate dir "File/foo.mediawiki"+"uploads/foo.png"?
20:35:21  <TrueBrain> did anyone track translations of images?
20:35:33  <frosch123> yes, some do
20:35:34  <TrueBrain> Intro screen they did, it seems
20:36:03  <TrueBrain> okay, in that case, lets do it .. location, eeuuuuhhhhhh
20:36:26  <TrueBrain> "history" is interesting
20:36:32  <TrueBrain> is that of the mediawiki file, or the source file? :P
20:36:42  <frosch123> haha, mediawiki has both :p
20:36:51  <TrueBrain> owh, that is how they solved that
20:37:03  <frosch123> when you press "view history" you get the .mediawiki history
20:37:08  <TrueBrain> yeah, I see
20:37:10  <frosch123> the images are listed like in a category
20:37:39  <TrueBrain> okay, location: I would say they should be next to the image
20:37:47  <TrueBrain> that makes most sense from a GitHub perspective, I think
20:37:51  <frosch123> anyway, with lfs i prefered a separate folder for the "big" files, so I could set lfs for a directory, instead of listing random file extensions
20:37:56  <frosch123> but now that we do not use lfs...
20:38:35  <frosch123> ok, i'll put both .png and .mediawiki into the same path
20:38:54  <TrueBrain> lets see how that works out
20:40:08  <TrueBrain> will the .mediawiki always exist?
20:40:10  <TrueBrain> even if it is empty?
20:40:26  <frosch123> i can ensure that
20:40:34  <TrueBrain> do we want that? :D
20:40:42  <TrueBrain> it does make a lot of things easier, I have to say
20:40:50  <TrueBrain> makes "File" folder a lot less special
20:41:05  <frosch123> well, you code the upload form :p
20:41:14  <frosch123> migration is only once
20:41:20  <TrueBrain> so let's do that :)
20:41:31  <TrueBrain> here I was hoping you would do the upload form :P :P
20:41:56  <frosch123> two work days left :)
20:42:03  <frosch123> then finish the migration
20:42:11  <frosch123> then pick up the leftovers
20:42:17  <TrueBrain> :D
20:42:24  <TrueBrain> sounds like an excellent plan
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21:10:14  <TrueBrain> right, time to deploy a new version :D
21:10:24  <TrueBrain> my short-list of shit-to-implement is getting short
21:10:29  <TrueBrain> "git commit and git push"
21:10:43  <TrueBrain> "uploading files"
21:10:57  <TrueBrain> "creating pages in folders that don't exist"
21:11:09  <TrueBrain> nothing else is on my list or comes to mind .. :D
21:11:12  <frosch123> renaming pages?
21:11:30  <TrueBrain> owh, and casing-check
21:11:33  <frosch123> link "rename folder" to "make an issue or pr"?
21:11:42  <frosch123> what? you forgot the casing check :(
21:11:50  <TrueBrain> not forget, delayed :P
21:12:30  <frosch123> same category is: protect first two path items :)
21:13:25  <TrueBrain> good point :D
21:13:45  <TrueBrain> how does someone add a new language?
21:13:53  <frosch123> via issue tracker
21:14:09  <TrueBrain> in that case I would like the same language folders in all namespaces
21:14:09  <frosch123> same for "i want to translate 'manual' into my language", "rename folder", "other mass edits"
21:14:12  <TrueBrain> with a .place-holder or what-ever
21:15:09  <TrueBrain> (as I believe you still cannot add folders in GitHub? Or does it auto-fix this these days?)
21:15:58  <frosch123> i am unsure about "rename page". i don't like redirects, so would prefer some script to rewrite all links, which would be issue/pr. but at the same time, people seem to mistype the titles of their new pages every second time
21:16:24  <TrueBrain> IF nothing links to your page, you can change the name
21:16:26  <TrueBrain> otherwise you cannot?
21:16:48  <frosch123> interesting policy
21:16:52  <TrueBrain>
21:16:58  <frosch123> makes sense, just don't count links from Folder: :p
21:17:11  <TrueBrain> Folder isn't anything, funny enough :)
21:18:00  <frosch123> hmm. what is the .mediawiki called? "Intro screen.mediawiki" or "Intro screen.png.mediawiki"?
21:18:04  <frosch123> i assume the latter?
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21:18:22  <TrueBrain> yes
21:18:27  <supermop_Home> anyone have any experience with portable monitors?
21:18:29  <TrueBrain> see View Source link :)
21:20:35  <frosch123> i guess that will also fix Folder/File ?
21:21:13  <frosch123> hmm. it needs two history links though?
21:25:04  <TrueBrain> what do you mean, sorry?
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21:25:36  <frosch123> one link to gh for .png, one for .png.mediawiki
21:25:46  <TrueBrain> yeah, I will solve that too, I have ideas for that
21:26:05  <TrueBrain> I think I for now add a link below the image: show history of image
21:29:39  <TrueBrain> will work when the .mediawiki files are there btw
21:30:18  <frosch123> \o/
21:30:40  <TrueBrain> too, but that is really the same link :P
21:30:44  <TrueBrain> internally it does EXACTLY the same :P
21:31:15  <TrueBrain> lol @ history link .. oops
21:31:17  <TrueBrain> something broke :D
21:31:34  <TrueBrain> haha, instead of :D
21:31:35  <TrueBrain> makes sense :P
21:32:55  <andythenorth> supermop_Home I have experience with reading kickstarters about them
21:33:09  <andythenorth> followed by reading about caveats, disappointments etc
21:33:26  <andythenorth> I also have experience using iPad as 2nd monitor
21:33:59  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] dimensi0n opened issue #76: [fr_FR] Translator access request
21:43:03  <supermop_Home> I thought about buying a tablet
21:43:46  <supermop_Home> makes sense for expected use-case (wfh while travelling or otherwise being somewhere other than home)
21:44:06  <supermop_Home> as can then use the tablet for whatever people use tablets for
21:44:58  <supermop_Home> i pretty much can't get anything done with one screen
21:47:14  <TrueBrain> right, history link fixed again .. that took some effort :D
21:48:16  <andythenorth> supermop_Home is it CAD stuff?
21:48:22  <supermop_Home> can and rhino
21:48:25  <supermop_Home> cad
21:48:32  * andythenorth has been living in one screen for about 15 years
21:48:37  <supermop_Home> some photoshop and indesign
21:48:39  <andythenorth> used to have 2, but eh
21:49:13  <supermop_Home> and mostly remotely connected to my 2-monitor workstation at the empty office
21:49:41  <supermop_Home> so when connected with just one screen i have to constantly tab between them
21:50:16  <andythenorth> I made the change from 13" to 16" laptop
21:50:20  <andythenorth> is remarkably better
21:50:32  <andythenorth> wish I'd done it years ago
21:52:33  <supermop_Home> how do you manage the room for such a thing?
21:54:25  <andythenorth> the size?
21:55:53  <supermop_Home> yeah
21:56:20  <andythenorth> it's almost the same physical footprint as this 2012 13"
21:56:24  <andythenorth> and the same weight
21:56:24  <TrueBrain> frosch123: reload-if-GitHub-changes works too, but not sure it is worth the effort to install that in your repo :P
21:56:56  <andythenorth> it's about 1cm too large to fit my current bike bag though
21:57:04  <andythenorth> or my kids' backpacks I borrow
21:57:17  <frosch123> TrueBrain: no, thanks :)
21:57:38  <TrueBrain> :D
21:57:40  <supermop_Home> ive been using tiny vaios from 05 to 17 and surface book since then so i guess i have no feel for big laptops
21:57:51  <supermop_Home> literally have never had one
21:57:53  <TrueBrain> I have 11 things on my TODO .. most I will fix tomorrow I think :)
21:58:08  <TrueBrain> how is your migration going?
21:58:11  <TrueBrain> got through the User bla?
21:58:54  <andythenorth> I always had 'small' but not 'smallest' Apple laptops
21:59:05  <supermop_Home> i did have a 2010 13" mbp for work at one point though, and i did find it heavy
21:59:07  <andythenorth> and I stuck with that
21:59:27  <andythenorth> then I found an old one in my house, and noticed it was huge
21:59:35  <andythenorth> relative to current one, which is like a toy
22:00:38  <supermop_Home>|se|google|nx_brand_accessories|accessories||b|193121744|110598347433|dsa-742825273171|text|brand&ef_id=CjwKCAiAnIT9BRAmEiwANaoE1YGRLLFiYirCWdbiyDL8LBxWa1ymIavA6wnBZMGqtOWvZO7TlciOJxoCpXoQAvD_BwE:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!4030!3!465624096430!b!!g!!!193121744!110598347433&gclsrc=aw.ds&&gclid=CjwKCAiAnIT9BRAmEiwANaoE1YG
22:00:38  <supermop_Home> wE
22:00:41  <supermop_Home> gah
22:00:51  <supermop_Home> well sorry
22:00:53  <andythenorth> supermop_Home I have this open
22:00:56  <frosch123> TrueBrain: it's like horse. the todo list was almost empty last sunday and the sunday before. but during the week we always add stuff :)
22:01:13  <TrueBrain> haha :D
22:01:35  <TrueBrain> well, truewiki is nearing feature-complete for the MvP, so hopefully that stabalizes your work too :P :D
22:01:37  <andythenorth> hmm do I really need a 2nd monitor?  I don't actually do any work
22:01:42  <supermop_Home> the Lenovo seemed to have best reviews / spec for color acuity
22:02:12  <TrueBrain> memory footprint of truewiki is lower than I expected
22:02:28  <andythenorth> supermop_Home the exchange rate really sucks :P
22:02:34  <TrueBrain> which is nice :) Lot of memory is in the metadata cache :D
22:03:03  <TrueBrain> it takes ~2 seconds to sha256 all .mediawiki pages btw frosch123  :) I expected it would take longer :P
22:03:14  <TrueBrain> (invalidation works based on the sha256 result)
22:03:33  <supermop_Home> haha i could buy two for that much here andythenorth
22:03:55  <frosch123> can you already invalidate pages when their templates change?
22:04:13  <TrueBrain> frosch123: yup
22:04:14  <supermop_Home> leaving town Saturday, just hope it gets here by then
22:04:16  <andythenorth> supermop_Home yeah we took some decision somewhere that wrecked our exchange rates
22:04:19  <TrueBrain> changing en/- is a nightmare :P
22:04:28  <andythenorth> Macs gained £250 price rise
22:04:31  <TrueBrain> takes 20+ seconds before the metadata is calculated again :)
22:04:39  <TrueBrain> the recalculation is done in a separate process, non-blocking
22:04:41  <andythenorth> Bachmann diesel engines went from £85 -> £200
22:04:53  <andythenorth> Ford Transit Van went from £18k -> £28k
22:04:54  <TrueBrain> categories/translations are possibly wrong for that time, but update when it is ready
22:04:56  <andythenorth> but you know
22:04:59  <andythenorth> FREEDOM
22:05:10  <TrueBrain> owh, and it is a queue .. so if someone updates en/- 20 times, it will takes 400 seconds, and block any other request
22:05:21  <andythenorth> oh yeah, freedom to trade as well, except with the EU
22:05:28  * andythenorth grumbles
22:05:31  <supermop_Home> well all the money i was planning to waste on british train in the spring i wasted on other things
22:05:42  <TrueBrain> but .. I considered that better than blocking the user for 20+ seconds :D
22:05:44  <supermop_Home> mostly records, sneakers,
22:06:00  <andythenorth> keeping the economy going
22:06:26  <supermop_Home> wife works for the sneaker company
22:06:34  <supermop_Home> so i'm just paying her salary
22:06:46  <TrueBrain> frosch123: <- 275 lines to do a ~100 line job, basically :P
22:07:50  <TrueBrain> 2.7k LoC for wikitexthtml and 1.7k for truewiki .. that is excluding wikitextparser ... I guess adding features increases the LoC quickly :D
22:08:00  <TrueBrain> but still, <5k LoC for a wiki ...
22:08:42  <supermop_Home> about 5-10 % of banks and shops have boarded up here
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22:12:31  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne updated pull request #166: WIP: handle labels more readably
22:13:00  <supermop_Home> since sunday
22:13:34  <andythenorth> supermop_Home they expecting trouble?
22:13:49  <supermop_Home> i guess so
22:14:53  <supermop_Home> but its telling,, who boarded up
22:16:30  <supermop_Home> i have a bottle of champgne at the apartment that work sent me a while back..
22:16:48  <andythenorth> have you placed any bets?
22:16:51  <supermop_Home> i did not choose to put it in the fridge to chill this morning
22:17:02  <andythenorth> I don't know anybody here who would dare call it
22:17:24  <supermop_Home> rather, i chose to not put it in the fridge
22:17:44  <andythenorth> in my limited circle, the view here is that it's hard to conceive of Trump yielding power
22:18:00  <supermop_Home> yes
22:18:20  <supermop_Home> also, trump did not win the vote last time...
22:19:28  <supermop_Home> so even as unpopular as he is, there are many legal, quasi legal, or just never tested means for him to be in office on Jan. 21
22:19:41  <supermop_Home> or to be out of office but still claiming it
22:20:13  *** Wolf01 has quit IRC
22:20:22  <supermop_Home> and a small but loud minority of people who will listen to him
22:21:41  <andythenorth> litigation litigation litigation, until the opposition get ground down
22:22:04  <andythenorth> or he might just win a clear landslide in the colleges
22:22:23  <andythenorth> hmm has betting closed?
22:23:37  <supermop_Home> ha
22:23:39  <supermop_Home> idk
22:23:52  <supermop_Home> we don't have the same bookie culture here
22:24:47  <supermop_Home> ive been organizing dresser drawers to stay occupied
22:26:59  <supermop_Home> should go for a walk
22:26:59  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne updated pull request #166: WIP: handle labels more readably
22:27:09  * FLHerne mutters about CodeQL
22:27:39  <FLHerne> Some of the reports are correct, but several are false-positives or just incomprehensible nonsense
22:28:34  <FLHerne> It's true Python isn't easy to statically analyze, but it could do with a 'conservative' mode
22:30:03  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
22:34:44  <arikover> andythenorth: Thanks for the update 2.9.1! By the way, should I also submit a PR if I want to update the French translation for FIRS?
22:35:02  <andythenorth> yes, but FIRS development is less stable
22:35:34  <andythenorth> the best thing is to submit against the v4-release-track branch
22:35:43  <andythenorth> and remind me when you've done it ;)
22:36:44  <arikover> oh v4 is not merged to master yet?
22:37:44  <andythenorth> nope
22:37:47  <andythenorth> I might do that soon
22:38:21  <frosch123> TrueBrain: any opinion what to do with User: links? convert them to plain text?
22:38:32  <TrueBrain> I guess ....
22:39:09  <frosch123> anyway, down to 5k6 errors :)
22:41:45  <TrueBrain> nice :D
22:42:31  <supermop_Home> helicopters out now
22:43:01  *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd
22:43:54  <frosch123> night
22:43:56  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
22:46:06  <arikover> andythenorth: "and remind me when you've done it ;)" <- will do!
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22:57:53  * andythenorth bed
22:57:56  *** andythenorth has left #openttd
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23:48:05  <FLHerne> LordAro: What would you think about deleting all the `debug_print` methods in NML?
23:48:11  <FLHerne> Excessive?
23:49:08  <FLHerne> Most of them only work in some particular state, they're not really tested properly, and mostly duplicate the NML printed output anyway
23:49:26  <FLHerne> There are better ways to actually debug things :p
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