Log for #openttd on 12th November 2020:
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00:21:28  <frosch123> TrueBrain: for the morning shift. i pushed the last changes, todo list is empty now :) i'll run the migration with history while i sleep :)
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07:59:11  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I guess the next sed request would be to change http to https for all tt-forums links :D
08:05:05  <TrueBrain> export is looking really good :D Sweet
08:08:23  <TrueBrain> 8428 http:// links vs 1830 https:// links .. :D Yeah .. that will be some PRs once we are live, to fix that ratio :)
08:09:23  <andythenorth> yo
08:19:27  <longtomjr> hi
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10:35:52  <TrueBrain> so how bad did the export break frosch123 ? :D
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10:50:24  <frosch123> i realised just enabling something i tested 4 week ago the last time, did not work :)
10:50:32  <frosch123> i fixed it between breakfast
10:51:02  <frosch123> now it is running for 30 minutes, 17k of 85k commits done
10:51:19  <frosch123> 1.4GB memory consumption, i have the entire wiki history/content in memory :p
10:51:45  <TrueBrain> Hahaha
10:51:47  <TrueBrain> Not bad
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12:20:31  <frosch123> 66k of 85k, looks like it keeps a constant speed
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12:27:09  <TrueBrain> That is nice :)
12:27:36  <TrueBrain> So another 30 minutes or so
12:35:55  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge opened pull request #8340: Draft: Feature: Create Universal (x86_64 + Apple Silicon) build on macOS
12:37:03  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge updated pull request #8340: Draft: Feature: Create Universal (x86_64 + Apple Silicon) build on macOS
12:38:39  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge updated pull request #8340: Draft: Feature: Create Universal (x86_64 + Apple Silicon) build on macOS
12:39:16  <LordAro> ooh
12:41:03  <orudge> Not sure if the homebrew dependencies will be fat binaries though, which might scupper this plan until homebrew is updated (or we can force them to be recompiled?))
12:41:47  <LordAro> will the generated binary still work with OSX?
12:43:19  <orudge> It's still targetted at 10.9
12:43:22  <orudge> so it should work
12:43:44  <orudge> I believe you can in theory create a PPC/PPC64/x86/x86_64/aarch64 super-universal binary
12:44:25  <LordAro> ha
12:46:39  <TrueBrain> just when I thought we were done with "universal" builds :P
12:47:23  <TrueBrain> just as a FYI: doing this for CI builds might be a bit pointless and just a waste of CPU time, as the binaries are never available for download; but hopefully it helps for LordAro's branch of moving the nightlies to GitHub Actions :D
12:59:41  <orudge> Handy to ensure that the build isn't broken on aarch64 though
12:59:50  <orudge> and yes, it looks like the homebrew libraries are not universal
13:00:02  <TrueBrain> hence the "a bit" :) there is some gain, for sure
13:00:18  <TrueBrain> I was hoping this time around they would go for a non-universal route ...
13:00:26  <TrueBrain> but they just re-used their old tricks :P
13:01:45  <frosch123> hmm, git log is way faster than i remembered
13:01:56  <TrueBrain> well, that is not a bad thing to find out :D
13:01:56  <frosch123> would lfs slow it down, even when not active?
13:02:21  <frosch123> so, what's next?
13:02:39  <TrueBrain> publish your result in gollum-test-data? :)
13:02:51  <TrueBrain> I can do some pre-checks that way .. after that, push to wiki-data :P
13:03:19  <frosch123> i think i fork wiki-data, and push to my account
13:03:28  <TrueBrain> works as well
13:03:43  <TrueBrain> you can PR it after that :P Very curious how BOOM GitHub says :P
13:04:23  <frosch123> won't work. i will drop some of your commits (Main Page etc)
13:04:39  <TrueBrain> too bad :P
13:04:51  <TrueBrain> (and completely fine)
13:08:21  <frosch123> lol, my fake history contains funny things
13:08:31  <TrueBrain> like?
13:08:55  <frosch123> the initial "Wiki software successfully installed." main page already contains a "[[Translation:en/Main Page]]"
13:09:09  <TrueBrain> haha :D
13:09:14  <TrueBrain> can't start early enough :P
13:09:40  <TrueBrain> how many changes does en/Main Page have? :)
13:10:19  <frosch123> 58
13:10:45  <TrueBrain> that is not much
13:10:48  <TrueBrain> I expected more honestly
13:10:50  <frosch123> hmm, that's fewer than on the real wiki
13:11:00  <TrueBrain> oh-oh
13:11:12  <frosch123> real one has like 70
13:14:16  <TrueBrain> what did those 12 do to not earn a place? :D
13:14:58  <frosch123> hmm, --allow-empty did not work?
13:15:13  <TrueBrain> skipping empty commits is not a bad thing honestly :)
13:15:16  <frosch123> <- all these commits are missing, and they would result in an empty diff
13:15:28  <TrueBrain> so that is totally fine :)
13:15:39  <frosch123> but i did set --allow-empty
13:16:02  <TrueBrain> so by accident you did the right thing? :P
13:16:05  <TrueBrain> the commits can still be there btw
13:16:10  <TrueBrain> but you won't see that in the history
13:16:13  <TrueBrain> of the file
13:16:17  <frosch123> oh, ofc!
13:16:19  <TrueBrain> as ... the commit was empty :P
13:16:25  <frosch123> yeah, that's it :)
13:16:28  <TrueBrain> hence that skipping those is totally fine
13:16:35  <TrueBrain> as nobody is ever going to find them back :P
13:22:29  <frosch123> pff, fetch takes ages. i wonder whether it tries to match the 85k local commits against the 6 remote ones
13:22:48  <frosch123> yeah, now it figured out "no common commits" :)
13:23:01  <TrueBrain> haha
13:28:54  <frosch123> i never rebased so many commits :)
13:29:11  <TrueBrain> I would assume you would cherry-pick those 2 on top of your work, honestly :P
13:30:08  <frosch123> hmm, ok, i could cherry-pick the one with the actions
13:30:10  <frosch123> so, only 1 commit
13:30:29  <frosch123> well, then forking was pointless
13:31:23  <frosch123> i forgot to add "time" to the rebase, but let's finish this just for the lolz
13:33:40  <TrueBrain> well, guestimate it :P
13:35:27  <frosch123> actually, no, this will take 2.5 hours again
13:35:50  <TrueBrain> :o
13:35:56  <TrueBrain> yeah ... that is too much lolz
13:38:50  <frosch123> well, i got to the 1.1.0 release article, so maybe it would have been faster
13:39:52  <TrueBrain> not worth the effort and time :)
13:40:51  <frosch123> pushing 489647 objects :)
13:41:34  <TrueBrain> lolz
13:41:40  <TrueBrain> to your fork?
13:41:45  <frosch123> yes
13:41:51  <TrueBrain> pam pam pammmmm
13:42:03  <TrueBrain> I am still wondering if I have to cache the GitHub checkout
13:42:16  <frosch123> 426MB in .git
13:42:20  <TrueBrain> I think the total time of clone + metadata scan is going to be over 5 minutes ...
13:42:30  <TrueBrain> depends how GitHub is packing this :)
13:42:33  <TrueBrain> very curious :)
13:42:42  <frosch123> i ran an aggressive repack
13:42:50  <TrueBrain> good
13:42:56  <TrueBrain> GitHub does similar things, I have noticed
13:43:15  <TrueBrain> as you might have noticed, the latest version of TrueWiki does a full metadata scan before the server becomes active
13:43:23  <TrueBrain> I wanted to avoid that, but I couldn't, without losing consistency
13:43:35  <TrueBrain> so the startup deadline is a bit tight
13:43:38  <frosch123> yes, the last check took 50% longer :)
13:43:52  <TrueBrain> yeah, sorry about that .. I postponed it as long as I could :)
13:44:02  <TrueBrain> funny, for me it was 50% too :P From 4 minutes to 6
13:44:15  <TrueBrain> but I/O in a Docker is crazy slow ...
13:44:19  <frosch123> your machine is twice as fast as my >10 old one
13:44:44  <TrueBrain> my single code speed can be faster :P
13:44:58  <TrueBrain> peeks at 5GHz or something
13:45:08  <frosch123> yeah, that's twice as fast :)
13:45:18  <TrueBrain> it is funny ... the specs say it is 3.7GHz
13:45:24  <TrueBrain> in normal operation, it runs at 4.6GHz
13:45:29  <TrueBrain> in stress, it goes higher
13:45:34  <TrueBrain> I love my 8700K :P
13:45:37  <TrueBrain> best investment ever :)
13:45:56  <frosch123> 750 here :p
13:46:06  <TrueBrain> oef, okay, I see your point :)
13:46:14  <TrueBrain> what is "fun" about the metadata scan, in a Docker, it is I/O bound
13:46:21  <TrueBrain> outside docker, it is CPU bound
13:46:29  <TrueBrain> somehow we ended just on the edge of what starves the system
13:46:53  <frosch123> oh, i run it inside docker
13:47:04  <TrueBrain> ah .. it is really a lot slower in a Docker
13:47:07  <frosch123> put cpu+ram is still the oldest part of my system
13:47:11  <frosch123> ssd is newer
13:47:22  <TrueBrain> mainly as I fully depend on kernel cache, honestly
13:47:38  <TrueBrain> when I add an LRU on the template loading, it is faster in a Docker
13:47:40  <TrueBrain> but .. ugh .. what-ever :P
13:47:56  <TrueBrain> (so those pages that include a lot of the same template, as all opened every single time again and again)
13:49:02  <TrueBrain> your uplink is also limited, I guess :P
13:49:14  <frosch123> yes :)
13:49:22  <frosch123> 330 MB done
13:49:28  <TrueBrain> lol ...
13:49:41  <TrueBrain> I guess I shouldn't say I can upload with ~80 MB/s :P
13:49:50  <frosch123> for some reason there is factor 10:1 between down/upload
13:49:59  <TrueBrain> one of the perks of living in a city that close to AIX :)
13:50:25  <TrueBrain> 10:1 is normal .. in The Netherlands you are now seeing this quickly change
13:50:28  <frosch123> i don't need faster download, and faster upload is not worth the price
13:50:43  <TrueBrain> fiber is all 1:1
13:50:46  <TrueBrain> and even cable is changing to 5:1 or 2:1
13:51:03  <TrueBrain> I blame TikTok :)
13:51:39  <frosch123> done
13:51:47  <TrueBrain> owh, the cable provider here changed to 20:1 .. that is unusual
13:51:51  <frosch123>
13:51:54  <TrueBrain> for their 1gbit connection, that is
13:52:09  <TrueBrain> okay, let me run some tests to see how this will run on our cluster
13:52:15  <frosch123> This branch is 84502 commits ahead, 5 commits behind OpenTTD:master :)
13:52:48  <TrueBrain> 30 MiB/s download, not bad :)
13:53:26  <TrueBrain> okay, that works without any incident what-so-ever
13:53:28  <TrueBrain> right ...
13:53:28  <TrueBrain> lol
13:53:50  <frosch123> i wonder whether i should squash those "cleanup post-import" commits :p
13:54:10  <TrueBrain> owh, you took the commit message directly from mediawiki, not any "modified: NNN" stuff
13:54:11  <frosch123> also, why does it still show author and committer separately
13:54:12  <TrueBrain> I guess that is fine :)
13:54:38  <TrueBrain> wow, that are a lot of cleanup post imports :D
13:54:42  <TrueBrain> for every file 1?
13:54:47  <frosch123> yep :)
13:55:20  <TrueBrain> <- why the removal of that category, as a random question?
13:55:22  <frosch123> i just attached a revision to every page
13:55:54  <TrueBrain> I am shocked how quick GitHub is in showing this all
13:56:15  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i trashed those categories which are equivalent to a folder
13:56:22  <TrueBrain> ah :D Makes sense
13:56:28  <frosch123> or which were plain pointless
13:56:31  <TrueBrain> awh, the mediawiki render of GitHub -almost- does the right thing
13:56:52  <frosch123> no templates?
13:56:57  <TrueBrain> en/en/ :)
13:57:00  <TrueBrain> links are wrong :P
13:57:35  <TrueBrain> No commit message
13:57:35  <TrueBrain> LordAro authored and LordAro committed on Mar 17, 2019
13:57:45  <TrueBrain> hmm
13:57:53  <TrueBrain> sometimes it has author and committer
13:57:55  <TrueBrain> sometimes it doesn't?
13:58:04  <frosch123> i set both author and committer to the same value
13:58:13  <frosch123> before it set myself as committer
13:58:22  <frosch123> so, no idea what is the correct setting
13:58:41  <TrueBrain> well, it does this for some commits, not for others
13:58:43  <TrueBrain> which is a bit odd
13:59:25  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge commented on pull request #8340: Draft: Feature: Create Universal (x86_64 + Apple Silicon) build on macOS
13:59:31  <TrueBrain>
13:59:36  <TrueBrain> I mean ... the first 4 are not
13:59:37  <TrueBrain> the rest is
13:59:44  <TrueBrain> and half-way through it is not
13:59:49  <TrueBrain> and I cannot spot why it does this
14:00:55  <TrueBrain> orudge: I hope you can find a workaround for that :D
14:02:25  <TrueBrain> I am looking through the history of other GitHub repos .. I love how it picks the "committer" from your GitHub settings :P
14:02:27  <TrueBrain> kinda messy :D
14:03:57  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i claim, github detects names matching org members
14:04:26  <frosch123> hmm, though it's in my account
14:04:26  <TrueBrain> so why doesn't he do it for you, but does for me, as example?
14:04:42  <frosch123> i thought "different spelling/capitalisation"
14:04:57  <orudge> TrueBrain: I imagine there'll be an updated Homebrew available soon; alternatively MacPorts may offer a solution. Once folk start getting their hands on the new hardware and/or Big Sur (which is released today) then I imagine things will start to move.
14:05:11  <orudge> I also have a PR to finish for ARM64 Windows support and builds...
14:05:26  <TrueBrain> cool :)
14:05:36  <TrueBrain> now we just need to get ride of Azure Pipelines and do it all in GitHub Actions :D
14:06:06  <TrueBrain> frosch123: okay, everything seems to work from my perspective
14:06:13  <TrueBrain> I guess the only remark I have is the commit messages
14:07:14  <TrueBrain> (not the author vs commiter btw, I couldn't care less how GitHub shows it .. I am just curious why it shows it like this, but that is all)
14:08:29  <frosch123> i would like to keep the wiki message. but i can prepend the change/add/whatever you did
14:08:45  <frosch123> i can also set committer to librarian for everything
14:08:58  <TrueBrain> hmm .. I guess that would make it more consistent with the future commits
14:09:18  <frosch123> TrueBrain: btw. when you upload a file. do you create one commit for .png + .mediawiki, or two?
14:09:20  <TrueBrain> but mostly it would explain the post-import commits
14:09:30  <TrueBrain> I believe one .. lets find out :)
14:09:48  <TrueBrain>
14:09:57  <frosch123> nah, i want to squah the post-import commits into one
14:10:05  <TrueBrain> also fine by me :)
14:10:58  <TrueBrain> commit_message = f"new page: {old_page}"
14:10:58  <TrueBrain> commit_message = f"modified: {old_page}"
14:11:03  <TrueBrain> commit_message = f"renamed: {old_page} -> {new_page}"
14:11:35  <TrueBrain> we can also change how TrueWiki commits btw, which is also fine by me
14:11:51  <TrueBrain> I was thinking a bit in the future, if (when?) we add history to TrueWiki itself
14:11:58  <TrueBrain> having consistent commit messages helps in that case
14:12:24  <TrueBrain> what I like about wiki-data now, that per file you see a clear history
14:12:32  <TrueBrain> but the commit history is .. a mess
14:12:39  <TrueBrain> with wiki-data-staging, it is the other way around
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14:13:36  <frosch123> i think putting the new page/modified (i do not have renamed) first, and then appending the old message (if any) is best
14:13:48  <TrueBrain> k
14:13:50  <frosch123> then it's the same for commits without explicit message
14:13:55  <TrueBrain> true
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14:14:08  <TrueBrain> sadly, it does mean doing an export again, but I guess such is life :P
14:14:21  <TrueBrain> if I can help by doing to run or what-ever, that is fine by me; but we are in no rush, so what-ever :)
14:15:24  <TrueBrain> damn, commit are as fast on 15k commits as on 80k commits
14:15:39  <TrueBrain> guess that is not totally surprising, given linux-kernel has most likely even more commits :P
14:15:51  <frosch123> i don't have to watch it doing the commits, i don't care how long it takes :)
14:16:16  <TrueBrain> my hands are itching to fix so many inconsistencies .... :P
14:16:30  <frosch123> do you know what the github daily push quota is?
14:16:38  <frosch123> when do i get banned?
14:16:54  <TrueBrain> from what I understand, they do not really care
14:17:04  <TrueBrain> at a certain point, they contact you, like: wtf dude
14:17:30  <TrueBrain> I am pretty happy how the new wiki turned out
14:17:36  <TrueBrain> also the new layout I kinda fancy
14:17:46  <TrueBrain> (as in, fixed width, instead of what-ever screen size you have)
14:17:52  <TrueBrain> as on a 2k monitor, it becomes ... annoying to read
14:18:19  <frosch123> why do you maximize your browser?
14:18:26  <frosch123> i have browser+irc on one screen
14:18:46  <TrueBrain> because Windows doesn't have the handy CTRL+ALT+6 stuff
14:18:50  <TrueBrain> one thing I really do miss
14:18:52  <TrueBrain> like .. really do miss
14:19:32  <frosch123> haha, i have win at work, so i also miss stuff there :)
14:19:35  <TrueBrain> <- hmm .. the "external link" icon is no longer working
14:19:40  <frosch123> for some reason i do not miss anything the other way around
14:19:46  <LordAro> TrueBrain: ctrl+alt+6 stuff?
14:19:55  <TrueBrain> LordAro: quickly move windows to a side of your screen
14:20:22  <TrueBrain> I think it is the CSP causing the link to not render ..
14:20:29  <LordAro> well it can do some of it with win+arrow keys
14:20:43  <TrueBrain> "some" being the prober term
14:20:50  <frosch123> TrueBrain: if you show different icons for http and https, lease reverse the logic compared to mediawiki
14:21:02  <LordAro> ?
14:21:04  <frosch123> mediawiki makes https look weird
14:21:10  <frosch123> it should be the other way around :)
14:21:14  <TrueBrain> haha, indeed
14:21:19  <TrueBrain> but there should be an icon already
14:21:21  <TrueBrain> and there is not
14:21:36  <TrueBrain> LordAro: fancy .. will check it out :)
14:22:33  <TrueBrain> background: url(data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAAoAAAAKCAYAAACNMs+9AAAAVklEQVR4Xn3PgQkAMQhDUXfqTu7kTtkpd5RA8AInfArtQ2iRXFWT2QedAfttj2FsPIOE1eCOlEuoWWjgzYaB/IkeGOrxXhqB+uA9Bfcm0lAZuh+YIeAD+cAqSz4kCMUAAAAASUVORK5CYII=) center right no-repeat;
14:22:35  <TrueBrain> that used to work
14:22:47  <TrueBrain> I would expect a CSP warning if it is CSP
14:23:04  <TrueBrain> Chrome does indicate it is a CSP error
14:23:17  <frosch123> inline image :)
14:23:20  <TrueBrain> well, guess it is time to replace it with an UTF-8 char
14:23:43  <TrueBrain> what UTF-8 char to use ...
14:24:02  <frosch123> 1F517
14:24:30  <frosch123> 26A0 for http :p
14:24:34  <TrueBrain> looks VERY weird on iOS :)
14:24:59  <frosch123> wtf. your os choice gets worse and worse
14:25:05  <TrueBrain> no no
14:25:11  <TrueBrain>
14:25:13  <TrueBrain> shows you how it renders
14:27:21  <TrueBrain> owh, it is one of those UTF-8 chars that cannot be coloured
14:27:26  <TrueBrain> ugh ... do we have a better one? :P
14:27:48  <frosch123> there are many arrows. but no real link icon
14:27:55  <frosch123> do we need one?
14:28:09  <TrueBrain> something to indicate it is external, that we do need
14:28:12  <TrueBrain> just anything, honestly
14:29:00  <TrueBrain> <- so happy we have this
14:29:08  <TrueBrain> happy iOS refuses to render it :P
14:29:19  <frosch123> lol :)
14:29:57  <TrueBrain> maybe?
14:30:21  <frosch123> 1f500 to 1f51d are super weird
14:30:39  <FLHerne> TrueBrain: And of course it's different from 'three lines converging left'
14:30:40  <frosch123> maybe 2ba9 ?
14:30:57  <frosch123> or 2b9a ?
14:31:04  <frosch123> i think one of the arrows is our best bet
14:32:21  <TrueBrain>
14:32:26  <frosch123> 2398 ?
14:33:01  <frosch123> put the icon in-front of the link imo
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14:34:20  <frosch123> <- i think that's my favorite
14:35:20  <TrueBrain>
14:36:36  <frosch123> is that the same font size? i expected it to be full height
14:36:41  <TrueBrain> no, it is smaller
14:36:43  <TrueBrain> full font looked odd
14:37:05  <frosch123> ok :)
14:37:12  <TrueBrain>
14:37:21  <TrueBrain> owh, it was still selected, owh well
14:37:51  <TrueBrain> making it a bit smaller feels better
14:37:55  <TrueBrain> but I think the icon is sufficient
14:37:59  <TrueBrain> putting it before the link also looks odd
14:38:23  <TrueBrain> right, one more icon I need .. one for the chapter anchors
14:38:26  <TrueBrain> when you hover over a chapter
14:38:31  <TrueBrain> it should show an anchor on the left
14:38:37  <TrueBrain> also an inline data: element :)
14:38:58  <TrueBrain>
14:39:00  <TrueBrain> good enough for now
14:39:02  <frosch123> <-- too cheasy?
14:39:05  <TrueBrain> I will wait for real CSS people to make it proper
14:39:15  <TrueBrain> cannot be coloured, those chars
14:39:17  <TrueBrain> which look very odd
14:39:51  <frosch123> rest for any then :p
14:40:44  <TrueBrain> sorry?
14:40:49  <frosch123> *andy
14:40:53  <TrueBrain> ah :D
14:40:54  <TrueBrain> yes
14:41:13  <frosch123> poor boy
14:41:30  <frosch123> no pony, and then css
14:42:10  <andythenorth> oof
14:42:31  <TrueBrain>
14:45:20  <frosch123> oh, you can set font sizes in percentage now?
14:45:36  <TrueBrain> you can for a long long long time
14:45:38  <frosch123> last time i did font sizes in html, i had to use numbers -7 to 7 or so
14:45:44  <TrueBrain> it used to be something you didn't want to do
14:45:49  <TrueBrain> but these days, using em/%
14:45:52  <TrueBrain> is a lot better
14:46:05  <TrueBrain> it makes mobile experience better
14:46:23  <TrueBrain> have you tried visiting the wiki via mobile?
14:46:47  <TrueBrain> you can kinda tell what is pixel based and what is em based :D
14:47:29  <TrueBrain> it does need some more work btw, but .. it is not terrible at least
14:57:56  <TrueBrain> right, so now we wait for the export .. some quick pre-check .. and after that we can bring it to wiki-new :)
14:58:11  <TrueBrain> sweet!
14:59:06  <frosch123> do we keep it read-only for a few days after switching just to see how it takes the load?
14:59:36  <TrueBrain> hmm .. pros and cons to that
14:59:47  <TrueBrain> something new often also comes with people willing to change things
14:59:56  <TrueBrain> but indeed, if it doesn't hold, having it read-only allows us to roll back
15:01:43  <frosch123> hmm, though since we keep the old one readonly anyways, it does not matter
15:02:00  <TrueBrain> well, worst case, we have to duplicate changes made in the new
15:02:02  <frosch123> if we switch back we essentially show an older version
15:02:36  <TrueBrain> yeah .. lets just switch to a wiki in read/write mode
15:02:45  <TrueBrain> if it cannot handle the load ... we have to work fast to fix it :P
15:02:56  <TrueBrain> the load of 404s will be heavy :D
15:03:23  <frosch123> oh, we should record those
15:03:28  <TrueBrain> it does
15:03:32  <frosch123> then we actually know what is linked externally
15:03:45  <TrueBrain> including referrer
15:04:23  <frosch123> website also has some links, we need a pr for it
15:05:11  <TrueBrain> will you do that?
15:05:47  <frosch123> sure, shouldn't be much
15:06:02  <frosch123> just something we should not forget :)
15:06:06  <TrueBrain> 12 hits; but you know better than me where they are now :D
15:08:08  <frosch123> oh damn, you tricked me into writing the new post as well
15:08:29  <TrueBrain> haha, I did not think of that yet,but no, you just did that yourself >:D
15:08:56  <TrueBrain> I was thinking we could also poke the Translations team, asking help in translating the wiki
15:09:03  <TrueBrain> but that is maybe something for a bit down the road
15:09:36  <frosch123> yep, i want to write a new main page on staging, one that has less links to Archive :p
15:09:49  <TrueBrain> that is a perfect use of Staging :)
15:10:03  <TrueBrain> we should also move Sandbox there, for example
15:10:50  <frosch123> well, i trashed it, but linking there is a good idea
15:11:08  <frosch123> but that means we also have to put all the templates on staging at some point
15:29:51  <frosch123> turns out (a1, b1, c1 == a2, b2, c2) needs more () to mean what i want :p
15:37:20  <TrueBrain> haha :D
15:37:28  <TrueBrain> so, restart of the export? :P
15:38:49  <frosch123> <- looks cool?
15:39:08  <TrueBrain> lowercase the email, I would say
15:39:22  <TrueBrain> and yes, looks excellent
15:39:40  <TrueBrain> not sure about IPs in the history like this
15:39:51  <TrueBrain> maybe we should change them into "anonymous" or something? Not sure
15:41:09  <frosch123> is testing the first char for digit enough?
15:41:47  <TrueBrain> no
15:41:55  <TrueBrain> there are ~20 usernames starting with a digit
15:42:31  <frosch123> there are also ipv6 ones
15:42:42  <TrueBrain> start with digit and either "." or ":" in them
15:42:46  <TrueBrain> that is unique
15:43:28  <TrueBrain> or I can give you the usernames starting with digit :P
15:43:42  <frosch123> i have them myself :)
15:43:54  <TrueBrain> I count 11
15:44:09  <TrueBrain> of which a few never authenticated, lol
15:44:46  <TrueBrain> 5 with changes
15:44:54  <TrueBrain> 5 usernames starting with a digit made edits
15:44:57  <TrueBrain> to word it properly :)
15:45:16  <TrueBrain> there is also a "arie" (I did not add the quotes .. his username has quotes)
15:45:19  <TrueBrain> just as a FYI :)
15:45:31  <TrueBrain> and 2 starting with a ^
15:45:33  <TrueBrain> lol
15:46:07  <frosch123> i only have 4 on the wiki
15:46:53  <TrueBrain> SELECT * FROM `user` WHERE user_editcount > 0 ORDER BY `user`.`user_name` ASC
15:47:13  <TrueBrain> 02walshe , 07es26 , 11Runner , 2talltyler , 7036
15:47:19  <frosch123> arie is funny. python or git ate some of the quotes
15:47:34  <frosch123> oh, i missed 7036 :)
15:47:47  <TrueBrain> 1 edit, database says
15:49:58  <frosch123> should i slugify them?
15:51:32  <TrueBrain> that solves your problems for sure :)
15:51:37  <TrueBrain> well, for email-addresses, that is
15:51:46  <frosch123> i'll slugify the email
15:51:53  <frosch123> i don't like the lowercase for names
15:52:51  <TrueBrain> I meant only for emails, to be clear
15:53:01  <TrueBrain> owh, also what I said, pfew :P
15:53:13  <TrueBrain> but the slugify will do that for you :) (or at least, should :P)
15:55:33  <frosch123> haha,  just noticed that the first page created after "main page" is already in archive :p
15:56:39  <TrueBrain> :D
15:56:48  <frosch123> let's blame Dominik
16:01:00  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8339: [Game-play] Stopped vehicles started after reloading network game
16:02:20  <frosch123> <- let's go with that
16:02:44  <TrueBrain> looks good
16:02:52  <TrueBrain> think we did enough bikeshedding :)
16:03:21  <TrueBrain> if you already start with the 2 commits from origin/master, you don't have to fix things afterwards :P
16:03:22  *** Flygon has quit IRC
16:03:34  <TrueBrain> but that is really tomato tomato :D
16:04:02  *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
16:04:04  <TrueBrain> no, what you have now is better
16:04:05  <TrueBrain> nevermind me
16:04:11  <TrueBrain> the current commit 0 is at the wrong date
16:04:13  <TrueBrain> so that would be bad
16:10:10  <frosch123> i picked the date of the initial commit very carefully
16:15:07  <TrueBrain> Do I want to know why it is months before the first page? :p
16:26:34  <frosch123> aw, i thought you would recognise it immediately
16:28:13  <frosch123> 13k/79k, afk now :)
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16:46:23  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx
16:55:31  <TrueBrain> Ah, yeah, the date I could understand, but the time took a bit longer :D
17:26:31  <frosch123> haha, i don't think we have fan boys who would know the time :)
17:28:27  <TrueBrain> Not a bad thing honestly :p
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17:51:54  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
17:51:54  <DorpsGek_III>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:06:58  <longtomjr> awh man, did I miss a bikeshedding session.
18:07:00  <longtomjr> darn
18:11:34  <frosch123> pretty sure andy has some yaks left over for shaving
18:12:27  <longtomjr> hehe
18:13:05  <andythenorth> am I volunteered for something?
18:13:12  * andythenorth needs a nap
18:14:27  <longtomjr> I read that as 'needs a map' for a second
18:27:27  <andythenorth> did anyone release a FIRS 4 beta yet?
18:28:20  <TrueBrain> you really do not want me to :P
18:31:34  <andythenorth> well I guess I'll do it :P
18:31:46  <TrueBrain> sounds like the better plan, yes
18:31:55  <andythenorth> beta support on bananas?
18:32:01  <andythenorth> 'this content is probably broken' :P
18:32:26  <TrueBrain> aren't all GRFs beta?
18:32:42  <andythenorth> evergreen
18:32:55  <TrueBrain> please, never do that again :P
18:33:00  <TrueBrain> it just cracks me up every time
18:33:24  <andythenorth> do I miss something :P
18:33:31  <TrueBrain> always!
18:34:24  * andythenorth beer
18:34:35  <TrueBrain> it isn't Friday yet!
18:34:38  <TrueBrain> right?
18:34:42  <TrueBrain> I lose count sometimes ..
18:34:49  <longtomjr> call Japan, maybe it is
18:35:47  <longtomjr> 5 o clock somewhere, and friday somewhere
18:35:49  <TrueBrain> does Japan has a phone? :P
18:35:57  <TrueBrain> just one HUGE phone in the middle of the country
18:36:05  <TrueBrain> my imagination is weird :P
18:36:18  <longtomjr> How else do countries communicate with each other
18:36:24  <TrueBrain> pigeons, duh
18:36:41  <TrueBrain> as the earth is flat, they never have to travel far
18:37:03  <longtomjr> ah right, forgot about that
18:37:35  <TrueBrain> pretty sure that was for the best, to forget about that :P
18:37:54  <longtomjr> never forgot about the flat earth, just the pigeons
18:38:10  <longtomjr> but I am sure next time I walked over to my car the pigeons would have reminded me on my windscreen
18:38:36  <TrueBrain> They are sending you a message!
18:38:59  <longtomjr> It is what they do best I heard
18:39:09  <longtomjr> that and planting seeds all over the place
18:42:10  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: <- what distribution is that?
18:42:34  <longtomjr> what am I looking at
18:43:03  <longtomjr> fewer users = more edits. More users = fewer edits?
18:43:36  <frosch123> 10 users have > 1000 edits, 100 users have > 100 edits
18:44:02  <longtomjr> is that per user or just total edits on the wiki?
18:44:07  <frosch123> > 50% of users have 1 edit
18:44:28  <frosch123> longtomjr: every position in the X axis is one user
18:44:39  <frosch123> they were so nice to sort themself by number of edits
18:45:00  <longtomjr> aaah ok
18:45:22  <longtomjr> thanks for explaining
18:46:05  <TrueBrain> frosch123: you want all math on us again, haven't you? :D
18:46:32  <frosch123> 68k of 79k, what else shall i do?
18:46:44  <TrueBrain> y = 10000 / x, nice :D
18:46:52  <TrueBrain> good to know we have an upper limit :D
18:48:05  <frosch123> TrueBrain: you only have the 17th most edits on the wiki
18:48:08  <TrueBrain> do I dare to ask who is #1 and #2?
18:48:17  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: my initial thought is towards a poisson distribution
18:48:21  <TrueBrain> wuth? 17th? Holy crap .... can't remember I added anything useful to it :P
18:48:39  <longtomjr> is the pre, or post cleanup?
18:48:42  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: but i'm not really familiar with that
18:48:54  <frosch123> i think #1 is a french translator (not the one you know), #2 is our favorite pl translator
18:49:05  <TrueBrain> translations, well, that is nice
18:49:07  <TrueBrain> also makes sense
18:49:12  <TrueBrain> can you make the graph with only english pages?
18:49:41  <frosch123> hmm, i guess, git log Page/en will do
18:49:43  <TrueBrain> I am happy btw that 50+% only makes a single edit; their contribution was something that annoyed them, and it is good to see they could fix it :)
18:50:16  <frosch123> well they are also unregistered :) so mandatory login stopped that
18:50:23  <TrueBrain> I am surprised btw that the GitHub runners are still not running into the Docker limiter .. I expected that to happen already ..
18:51:05  <longtomjr> Maybe GH has some caching on their side
18:51:28  <TrueBrain> could be, or they have enough public IPs they cycle through ..
18:51:32  <TrueBrain> or they have an agreement with Docker Hub, ofc
18:51:46  <TrueBrain> I asked the Docker Library dudes if they can also publish on GHCR, but .... no answer
18:51:46  <frosch123> TrueBrain: lol, it actually does not change much. i guess you also have to edit every english page to link the translation:p
18:52:04  <TrueBrain> frosch123: but that is stripped out of Page/en, not?
18:52:24  <TrueBrain> (As they would be empty commits)
18:52:26  <frosch123> yeah, i hope, not sure
18:52:34  <frosch123> ok, probably .)
18:52:40  <TrueBrain> but I would expect only the top few to drop out
18:52:45  <TrueBrain> and that nothing really changes on the grap
18:52:46  <TrueBrain> h
18:53:07  <frosch123> TrueBrain: anyway, only counting english you are taken over by many known people from this channel
18:53:10  <TrueBrain> as my assumption is that only a few care about translations, where the many care about the english
18:53:17  <frosch123> looks like you edited a lot of non-english pages
18:53:19  <TrueBrain> \o/
18:53:23  <TrueBrain> well, this month, sure
18:53:42  <TrueBrain> I never understood mediawiki, so I always avoided doing anything with it honestly :P
18:54:05  <longtomjr> just have a md -> mediawiki -> md script handy
18:55:17  <longtomjr> can you set the bg color with md
18:55:26  <longtomjr> otherwise nvmd, bad idea
18:55:27  <TrueBrain> curious how long GitHub is going to do about making its insight graphs :D
18:55:30  <TrueBrain> owh, not that long
18:55:48  <TrueBrain> you can clearly see our activity spike frosch123  :D
18:56:08  <TrueBrain> 2006-2010 were quiet .. 2010-2012 were busy ... up to 2014 there was some activity .. died out till 2020 :P
18:56:51  <TrueBrain> awh, Contributors only works for accounts that are linked to GitHub
18:56:53  <TrueBrain> too bad :D
18:57:36  <longtomjr> Since you have the infrastructure stats, is Ottd growing, going steady or declining in popularity? Or is it too difficult to say?
18:57:43  <TrueBrain> it seems I did 500 edits this month :P
18:57:56  <TrueBrain> longtomjr: very difficult to say in real useful numbers
18:58:07  <frosch123> <- english pages only (no templates, categories, or files)
18:58:07  <TrueBrain> but our bandwidth has been kinda the same since .. 2011 or something
18:58:09  <longtomjr> Ah ok, maybe that is for the best
18:58:14  <glx> usually it's very flat with some peaks
18:58:26  <TrueBrain> frosch123: yeah, what I would expect :)
18:58:46  <TrueBrain> longtomjr: few months back we got posted on Hacker News
18:58:46  <longtomjr> it is kinda trippy what it does towards the end
18:58:51  <TrueBrain> that increased traffic with 50% for a while
18:59:14  <longtomjr> I mean I were inactive for quite a while, and I am now playing more than ever.
18:59:17  <TrueBrain> we had more of those spikes .. where our average hit/s went from ~10 per second to ~150 per second
18:59:38  <TrueBrain> but we don't really collect stats
19:00:01  <TrueBrain> some people crawl the multiplayer stats, not sure what they are telling
19:00:13  <TrueBrain> but from my perspective, OpenTTD is as popular as it was 10 years ago
19:00:32  <longtomjr> :)
19:00:44  <longtomjr> Makes me happy
19:00:47  <TrueBrain> (despite there being almost 0 development activity in the official repo the last few .. months now?)
19:01:10  <longtomjr> it just means it is stable :)
19:01:16  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] SecretIdetity opened issue #81: [de_DE] Translator access request
19:01:20  <TrueBrain> it doesn't, but I like how you think :)
19:01:40  <TrueBrain> JGR mostly keeps the more advanced players interested
19:01:50  <TrueBrain> GRFs do the job for another group
19:01:53  <TrueBrain> new players always come and go
19:02:13  <TrueBrain> <- but this graph says it all, honestly :)
19:02:38  <longtomjr> Looks like an example of stability :)
19:03:00  <TrueBrain> but that kind of stability for games is rarely a good thing
19:03:06  <TrueBrain> and you see that in the OSX support, for example
19:03:19  <TrueBrain> and I think we still run an ICU version that is not really supported anymore?
19:03:29  <TrueBrain> we create HTTP (not HTTPS) connections
19:03:31  <TrueBrain> etc etc
19:03:39  <TrueBrain> there is this "hard stop" on this kind of stability
19:04:04  <longtomjr> Yep, unfortunately the world keeps changing, creating the need to change stable software
19:04:06  <TrueBrain> I just wish we could help JGR a bit more with infra
19:04:34  <longtomjr> What is missing on the infra side that would help JGR?
19:04:45  <TrueBrain> well, we created this new infra that we can also host any patchpack
19:05:01  <TrueBrain> we can build binaries, publish them on the CDN, announce them, etc
19:05:29  <TrueBrain> a while back (over a year) we tried to get him to update some configuration scripts so we could, but he clearly is not that knowledge about these things :) (which is not a complaint to him)
19:05:39  <TrueBrain> we just have nobody bridging between us and him to close that gap
19:06:14  <longtomjr>  Where is that code sitting currently?
19:06:28  <TrueBrain> Azure Pipelines currently builds binaries
19:06:39  <TrueBrain> which hopefully is going to be GitHub Actions soon
19:06:49  <TrueBrain> I hope that helps JGR too to make the changes needed in his repo to publish
19:06:53  <TrueBrain> (as GitHub Actions are just easier)
19:08:21  <longtomjr> Is the plan to migrate the pipelines to actions?
19:08:33  <TrueBrain> well, I hope that is the plan :D
19:08:43  <TrueBrain> the CI already is
19:08:54  <longtomjr> yep just look, but the build steps not yet
19:08:55  <TrueBrain> releases is a bit more fiddling around
19:09:08  <TrueBrain> but GitHub Actions are just easier to work with, especially in forks etc
19:09:10  <longtomjr> Might be nice to have docker releases as well
19:09:18  <TrueBrain> it would just need some secrets from me, and it will publish :)
19:09:25  <TrueBrain> "docker releases", that is kinda undefined :P
19:09:43  <TrueBrain> if you want an OpenTTD server via Docker, there are 2 versions out there that I know of
19:09:45  <TrueBrain> most likely more :)
19:10:07  <TrueBrain> if you mean building releases via docker:
19:10:38  <longtomjr> I meant image release, but there is no real need if there is existing ones.
19:10:50  <TrueBrain> the server-market is also very niche
19:10:54  <TrueBrain> they can take care of themself :)
19:11:25  <TrueBrain> ha, cool: if you search for jgrpp openttd, the 3rd hit on duckduckgo is the server listing for JGRPP server specific
19:11:33  <TrueBrain> exactly why we made that feature, happy it also works :D
19:12:08  <TrueBrain> but basically, from an infra perspective, the "official" binaries are just a setting
19:12:17  <TrueBrain> it can handle any amount of patchpacks, and can switch what-ever is promoted
19:13:16  <TrueBrain> I mean, JGR is using PRs to merge translations .. which is fine, but we build a translator system for that
19:13:29  <TrueBrain> I would love to link up those two, so his patchpack is also translated by the ones doing "official"
19:13:58  <TrueBrain> but okay: migrate everything to AWS first (3 things left), condense the community after :)
19:14:43  <longtomjr> are those things on the trello?
19:14:47  <longtomjr> nope
19:15:01  <TrueBrain> the AWS things are
19:15:17  <longtomjr> yep, not the other plans.
19:15:24  <TrueBrain> no ... 1 thing at the time :)
19:15:46  <TrueBrain> if people THINK you are going to do something, they won't :P
19:16:06  <longtomjr> hehe just saw you move things around
19:16:19  <TrueBrain> yeah, noticed it wasn't up-to-date
19:16:20  <TrueBrain> now it is :)
19:16:35  <TrueBrain> I like looking at what is done (aver the last 2 years)
19:16:39  <TrueBrain> vs what needs doing
19:16:40  <TrueBrain> it is nice :)
19:16:43  <TrueBrain> puts things in perspective
19:16:58  <longtomjr> yep
19:17:26  <TrueBrain> the insane amount of time that went into all of that ... I don't even dare to count the hours frosch123 put into this migration of wiki data :)
19:17:58  *** JGR has joined #openttd
19:20:59  <TrueBrain> talking about GitHub Actions, LordAro , how are the releases going? Getting somewhere? I guess in a few weeks you would like to ship a 1.11 beta?
19:23:21  <JGR> Reading up a bit, what specifically did you have in mind as regards JGRPP and infrastructure?
19:24:44  <TrueBrain> still the same as we talked about over a year ago, I guess :)
19:25:06  <TrueBrain> mostly of course a please where binaries can be produced for all the OSes
19:25:13  <TrueBrain> (and stored, and distributed)
19:25:44  <TrueBrain> but sky is the limit .. currently there are GRFs that possibly only works with jgrpp .. we have backend support for that in BaNaNaS, but it needs a bit of a tweak in the protocol
19:26:15  <longtomjr> I know of a few that only works in JGRPP, bridge grfs
19:26:17  <TrueBrain> we have a news section that could use: new JGRPP released
19:26:28  <TrueBrain> and I am pretty sure if you give me long enough, that list will be a lot longer :P
19:27:03  <TrueBrain> a please where? a place where .. wow, typing is hard ..
19:27:12  <TrueBrain> I don't like this is not Discord ... :P
19:27:31  <longtomjr> no message editing?
19:27:36  <TrueBrain> on IRC? No :)
19:27:44  <TrueBrain> my Matrix client allows it
19:27:48  <TrueBrain> but weird shit happens if I try :P
19:27:49  <longtomjr> Yep, I know, but is that what you miss?
19:27:57  <JGR> Ideally, all GRFs which use extra features in JGRPP would also work to at least some level in trunk, I'm not sure that quite worked though
19:28:35  <longtomjr> I can test the bridge GRF, dunno how it behaves in trunk
19:28:41  <TrueBrain> in general, something that was said back in the beginning of 2018, could be a bit more verbose to other packpacks out there
19:28:59  <TrueBrain> at least, that is how we rewrote most stuff
19:29:31  <TrueBrain> and, well, there is only 1 active patchpack :D
19:29:38  <JGR> The latest MWBS bridge GRF should work in trunk, all the others, probably not
19:29:52  <JGR> On binaries, having MacOS builds would be nice
19:30:08  <TrueBrain> yeah .. but I suggest we wait till we migrated fully to GitHub Actions
19:30:24  <TrueBrain> after the next sync, that would mean your fork only needs some secrets
19:30:31  <TrueBrain> and the rest will be complete magic :P
19:30:41  <TrueBrain> I love GitHub Actions :) I really do
19:30:48  <TrueBrain> they make my life so much less complicated
19:32:06  <TrueBrain> well, "after the next sync" -> "after OpenTTD/OpenTTD is switched fully to GHA, after the next sync, .."
19:32:55  <JGR> I've no objections in principle to getting involved in that sort of thing
19:33:11  <TrueBrain> good :) Well, as I mentioned earlier, we first have an AWS migration to finish
19:33:15  <TrueBrain> which will take a few more weeks
19:33:26  <TrueBrain> after that, we can hopefully connect the communities a bit, where useful, ofc :)
19:34:02  <TrueBrain> don't know if anyone told you already, but we also did things like:
19:34:16  <TrueBrain> in most of the infra there are now all kinds of way to add these kinds of filters
19:36:11  <longtomjr> JGR, this bridge set seems to work ok, but it does show a fatal error when loading in trunk. Bridges show up, but rails does not show on top of rail bridges
19:37:01  <JGR> TrueBrain. Yes, I've seen that, it is rather nice of you
19:37:16  <JGR> I loosely follow this channel via the logs, even if I don't usually log in.
19:37:18  <TrueBrain> I would expect such GRFs to simply only show up on BaNaNaS for download in the JGRPP build, tbh :P But I might be a bit radical in that :D
19:37:23  <TrueBrain> JGR: :D
19:37:49  <longtomjr> I am off to bed. Night all!
19:37:54  <TrueBrain> sleep well longtomjr
19:37:59  <longtomjr> :0
19:38:05  <JGR> Night longtomjr
19:38:06  <longtomjr> * :)
19:38:11  <TrueBrain> <- WHAT IS THIS MAGIC?!
19:38:18  <TrueBrain> holy crap, that looks cool
19:38:27  <longtomjr>
19:38:38  <longtomjr> Suspended monorail
19:38:42  <frosch123> TrueBrain: insane catenary :)
19:38:50  *** Koala has joined #openttd
19:38:51  <TrueBrain> that is so cool :)
19:38:56  <JGR> On the BOBB bridges, you probably need to use a railset GRF as well to get the rail on top of bridges, longtomjr
19:38:58  <Koala> Hello hello
19:39:10  <TrueBrain> is there an echo echo echo echo
19:39:17  <TrueBrain> shit, there is! is .. isss ... iiissss
19:39:18  <TrueBrain> :D
19:39:19  <Koala> I think there might be be be
19:39:25  <Koala> I'm new here:P
19:39:32  <TrueBrain> I am not :)
19:39:42  <Koala> Maybe you could help how me around?
19:39:52  <TrueBrain> well, here on the left is the bar; drinks are free
19:39:52  <longtomjr> JGR, aah ok, thanks. :)
19:39:55  <longtomjr> Anyways, night
19:39:57  <TrueBrain> on the right is a window ... not much of a view
19:40:01  <TrueBrain> and longtomjr is leaving for the night
19:40:02  <Koala> Lol:D
19:40:04  <TrueBrain> so welcome :)
19:40:19  <Koala> So you guys come here often then?
19:40:27  <TrueBrain> I never leave :'(
19:40:32  <TrueBrain> (it is funny because it is true)
19:40:43  <Koala> Lol, you might see me here often:D
19:41:04  <Koala> Is there some sort of registering I need to do?
19:41:10  <LordAro> TrueBrain: i've not looked at it in a while
19:41:19  <TrueBrain>
19:41:32  <TrueBrain> LordAro: was mostly curious :)
19:41:36  <Koala> What's this, a youtube video!
19:42:01  <TrueBrain> I still claim that the artist should be "Matchbox 20", but that argument is old
19:42:51  <Koala> TrueBrain: Should I have registered or anything?:D Just don't wanna break any rules:P
19:42:57  <TrueBrain> nah, you are good
19:43:16  <Koala> Sweet!
19:43:37  <TrueBrain> just let us know if we can help with anythoug
19:43:40  <Koala> So is there a social hierarchy here? xD
19:43:41  <TrueBrain> thoung? thing
19:43:48  <Koala> Ah yes, thoung
19:43:56  <TrueBrain> well, yes, we have 1003 kicks in this channel, and I hate I caused the last 3
19:44:00  <TrueBrain> 1000 was such a nice number
19:44:13  <Koala> Ah what is a kick?
19:44:20  <TrueBrain> otherwise we have andythenorth at the bottom of the hierarchy
19:44:25  <Koala> You mean you kicked people or?
19:44:25  <frosch123> Koala: only rule: if you want to talk the talk, you have to walk the walk
19:44:26  <TrueBrain> and LordAro on the top
19:44:27  <frosch123> or something
19:44:45  <TrueBrain> Koala: yeah ... andythenorth was not being nice to me :(
19:44:45  <Koala> Well, where am I walking:D
19:44:52  <TrueBrain> can't remember why/what, but that is not relevant
19:44:53  <Koala> How rude!
19:44:55  <TrueBrain> the number is 1003 :(
19:45:06  <LordAro> TrueBrain: 1003 since how long?
19:45:06  <Koala> must go now!
19:45:08  *** Koala has quit IRC
19:45:14  <TrueBrain> LordAro: since the beginning of time
19:45:27  <TrueBrain> well, not really .. believe it was in logs till 2007
19:45:29  <frosch123> <- done
19:45:31  *** gelignite has joined #openttd
19:45:39  <LordAro> heh
19:45:47  <LordAro> what an excitable person
19:45:52  <TrueBrain> frosch123: sweet! Let me quickly run some tests :)
19:45:56  <LordAro> remember when we were like that?
19:46:13  <TrueBrain> cute?
19:46:14  <TrueBrain> no
19:46:56  <TrueBrain> frosch123: pfft .. "Cleanup post-import" breaks the commit checker! HOW DARE YOU :P
19:47:08  <andythenorth> was that software?
19:47:13  <frosch123> TrueBrain: why? :p
19:47:17  <andythenorth> turing test
19:47:20  <TrueBrain> missing : for sure
19:47:20  <frosch123> most prs will look like that
19:47:27  <TrueBrain> Add: cleanup
19:47:29  <TrueBrain> Cleanup: post-import
19:47:30  <TrueBrain> I duno
19:47:35  <TrueBrain> commit-checker refuses that commit message :P
19:47:43  <frosch123> what about the first commit then?
19:47:48  <TrueBrain> EVEN WORSE
19:47:53  <LordAro> andythenorth: well they connected via the OFTC web interface, so probably unlikely
19:48:01  *** longtomjr has quit IRC
19:48:01  <TrueBrain> frosch123: makes me wonder if the last commit should have that "Add:" :P
19:48:15  <TrueBrain> LordAro: was part of the test :)
19:48:42  <TrueBrain> okay, everything starts and works as I would expect ..
19:48:51  <LordAro> *apparently connected
19:48:51  <frosch123> ok, i reword the cleanup
19:48:53  <TrueBrain> for good measure, lets run --validate-all
19:49:44  <TrueBrain> history looks good, author/commiter looks good
19:50:02  <frosch123> added a :
19:50:05  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I think a bigger question is: will we install the commit-checker on that repo
19:50:27  <frosch123> no idea what it should check :)
19:50:35  <TrueBrain> commit messages!
19:50:44  <andythenorth> ok I played enough tanks for now
19:50:49  <andythenorth> what shall I do now?
19:50:53  <frosch123> certainly not --validate-all, since you cannot really detect what errors were present before, or added new
19:51:04  *** JGR has quit IRC
19:51:09  <TrueBrain> frosch123: not true; I think what I will add, is a run on master, and a run on the PR
19:51:12  <TrueBrain> and tell the difference
19:51:17  <TrueBrain> what CodeQL also does
19:51:24  <TrueBrain> (there is a reason it outputs YAML :P)
19:51:26  <andythenorth> is it FIRS 4 Alpha 4, or Beta 1?
19:51:30  <andythenorth> pls send codez
19:52:32  <TrueBrain> frosch123: and we can cache the master result in the Actions cache, so that would be relative quick too :P (~5 minutes, I guess)
19:53:02  <TrueBrain> but ... not for now :)
19:54:01  <TrueBrain> okay, all my prechecks say: WE SHOULD DO THIS
19:54:06  <TrueBrain> so ..... push to upstream?
19:54:31  <TrueBrain> I enabled "allow force push" on master
19:55:20  <frosch123> pushing
19:55:23  <TrueBrain> the push should be relative quick btw
19:55:28  <TrueBrain> if I understand the GitHub infra a bit
19:55:28  <frosch123> let's see how smart gh is
19:55:38  <frosch123> it's not
19:55:38  <TrueBrain> your fork should just be a branch, what people keep telling
19:55:41  <TrueBrain> lol ...
19:55:43  <TrueBrain> LIES
19:55:45  <TrueBrain> SO MUCH LIES
19:56:18  <TrueBrain> anyway: PARTY
19:56:21  <TrueBrain> pre-party
19:56:21  <frosch123> TrueBrain: and yes, i had the exact same idea of "let's check this myth" :)
19:56:27  <TrueBrain> :D
19:56:46  <TrueBrain> they were implementing some protections because of the DMCA stuff
19:56:49  <TrueBrain> so it might have been true :P
19:57:49  <TrueBrain> what still makes me giggle a bit, even I have no clue how I can commit "Verified" commits :P
19:58:11  <TrueBrain> they talk about that nobody looks at it, but it is also so no clear how you would go about adding it yourself .. so why would I check commits for it :P
19:58:33  <frosch123> i think you have to add your pgp key or something
19:58:46  <TrueBrain> but "git show" shows me NOTHING of any signing of any kind
19:58:55  <TrueBrain> so it is GitHub only?
19:58:58  <TrueBrain> or .. I mean .. wuth?
19:59:11  <frosch123> i would think that pgp signing affects the commit hash
19:59:14  <LordAro> it's definitely somewhere
19:59:33  <frosch123> hmm, maybe not
19:59:41  <LordAro> ?
20:00:12  <LordAro> ah, there we go
20:00:13  <TrueBrain> well, the fact that you would need a different command shows how bad git is in this
20:00:18  <TrueBrain> you cannot blame GitHub for that :D
20:00:23  <LordAro> you don't need a separate command
20:00:33  <TrueBrain> GitHub publishes their docs via Heroku, it seems
20:00:36  <TrueBrain> I just hit a Heroku error :)
20:00:44  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I want to VERIFY if a commit is signed
20:00:46  <TrueBrain> locally
20:00:52  <TrueBrain> git show tells me NOTHING of that sorts
20:01:03  <TrueBrain> <- that showing a Heroku error for you too?
20:01:28  <LordAro> yup
20:01:46  <frosch123> yep
20:01:53  <TrueBrain> funny, that they use Heroku :)
20:01:55  <TrueBrain> nothing wrong there
20:01:56  <TrueBrain> just funny
20:02:01  <TrueBrain> but okay, I have a commit that is "Verified" on GitHub
20:02:04  <TrueBrain> locally I do "git show"
20:02:12  <TrueBrain> the comitter is GitHub, as expected
20:02:27  <TrueBrain> git log --show-signature -1
20:02:29  <TrueBrain> ah .. lol
20:02:36  <TrueBrain> gpg: Can't check signature: No public key
20:02:38  <TrueBrain> lol
20:03:32  <TrueBrain> so yeah, sorry git, if you are not making this easier, don't expect people to do this
20:04:29  <TrueBrain> owh, I need to download the public key from some PGP keyserver first
20:04:31  <TrueBrain> riiiggghtttt
20:04:48  <TrueBrain> (there is a reason I hate PGP ... I am sure it is very robust, but they made it impossible for the average person to figure out how it works)
20:06:07  <TrueBrain> ah, you can upload your PGP key to GitHub
20:06:23  <TrueBrain> owh, GPG key, sorry
20:06:26  <TrueBrain> (wtf is the difference :P)
20:07:13  <frosch123> <- there you go
20:08:06  <TrueBrain> server is reloading ... :D
20:08:49  <TrueBrain> took ~30 seconds to download
20:08:52  <TrueBrain> now reloading metadata :)
20:09:06  <TrueBrain> while reloading, you can already visit
20:09:18  <TrueBrain> (just languages and categories are not there yet)
20:13:06  <TrueBrain> yeah, this takes longer than 5 minutes, so I do need to fix cold-startup .. but not now :D
20:13:14  <TrueBrain> as this was a hot-startup, it is fine :)
20:13:30  <TrueBrain> 2020-11-12 20:13:23 INFO Loading metadata done; took 295.90 seconds
20:13:38  <TrueBrain> there we go, languagebar there
20:14:07  <TrueBrain> LordAro / andythenorth / anyone else, can I bother you clicking around
20:14:13  <TrueBrain> see if you find anything wrong/odd/broken
20:15:01  <frosch123> TrueBrain: <small> is apparently a thing
20:15:08  <TrueBrain> yup
20:15:12  <TrueBrain> I use it in some places even
20:15:13  <TrueBrain> why?
20:15:19  <LordAro> hmm, no search :p
20:15:26  <frosch123>
20:15:28  <LordAro> might be difficult to find quite a lot of pages
20:15:31  <TrueBrain> no, search will be done via search-engines when they indexed the wiki
20:15:44  <TrueBrain> frosch123: ah, tag is not whitelisted :D Nice
20:15:47  <LordAro> what if there are pages that aren't linked from anywhere?
20:16:02  <frosch123> LordAro: at the bottom, click "folder"
20:16:09  <LordAro> aha
20:16:12  <TrueBrain> hmm, it is whitelisted ...
20:16:57  <TrueBrain> I will have to investigate what is going on there :)
20:17:31  <TrueBrain> I think it is because <small> is inside the link
20:18:02  <TrueBrain> yeah, that is it
20:18:10  <TrueBrain> everything in a title is escaped
20:18:23  <TrueBrain> which, honestly, is I think the proper thing to do
20:18:24  <LordAro> was this intentionally removed?
20:18:48  <frosch123> probably
20:19:35  <andythenorth> TrueBrain sure :)
20:20:17  <LordAro> that external link icon looks terrible
20:20:23  <andythenorth> shall I throw 320 crawler threads at it? :P
20:20:55  <LordAro> i fixed a link!
20:21:15  <TrueBrain> LordAro: we are open for suggestions; but it is hard to find a good utf-8 icon :)
20:21:20  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: no need to crawl; many dead links
20:21:40  <LordAro> why not use an image?
20:22:01  <TrueBrain> because CSP was blocking my inline image
20:22:06  <TrueBrain> and I don't know how to make it into a proper image
20:22:08  <TrueBrain> PRs are welcome :D
20:22:21  <TrueBrain> "A process in the process pool was terminated abruptly while the future was running or pending"
20:22:28  <TrueBrain> hmm .. that is not good
20:24:54  <TrueBrain> "FileExistsError: [Errno 17] File exists: '/data/.git/index.lock'"
20:24:56  <TrueBrain> git broke :(
20:25:20  <TrueBrain> so nothing is now being send to GitHub :p
20:25:21  <LordAro> uh oh
20:25:23  <frosch123> oom?
20:25:24  <TrueBrain> so any changes will be void after reload
20:25:28  <TrueBrain> I do not know
20:25:42  <TrueBrain> memory is at 70%
20:25:48  <TrueBrain> so that might be an issue if it creates a new process
20:26:35  <TrueBrain> someone indexed A LOT of 404s in a very short time :P
20:26:47  <TrueBrain> right, going to provision more memory I guess :)
20:26:49  * andythenorth whistles
20:26:57  <andythenorth> chips for tea?
20:27:02  <andythenorth> maybe some fish
20:27:07  <TrueBrain> indexing a wiki for 404s is not very useful sadly
20:27:11  <TrueBrain> I can already tell you: 14k+ dead links
20:27:21  <TrueBrain> ah, memory usages is 100 MiB
20:27:23  <TrueBrain> yeah, that will go OOM
20:28:34  <TrueBrain> okay, going to reprovision with a bit more memory
20:28:47  <andythenorth> was that me? :P
20:28:50  <TrueBrain> I really need to add another node :)
20:28:51  <TrueBrain> no
20:29:00  <TrueBrain> I did not see that with the new data-set, memory increased to 100 MiB
20:29:07  <TrueBrain> it needs to run the process at least twice
20:29:11  <TrueBrain> and it had 192 MiB assigned
20:30:34  <TrueBrain> not really sure why a commit also consumes that much memory, as a fork() should be cheap
20:30:37  <TrueBrain> but .. magic :P
20:30:56  <TrueBrain> well, possibly a "git commit" just consumes a bit of memory, given the size of the repo
20:31:12  *** Koala has joined #openttd
20:31:25  <Koala> I'm back!
20:31:31  <TrueBrain> TO THE SHELTERS
20:31:36  <Koala> I have classes, so I had to go
20:31:39  <Koala> HMM?
20:32:01  <TrueBrain> you sounded like the joker ... I'm BBAAAACCCCKKKK
20:32:10  <Koala> Ahh
20:32:38  <Koala> SO this is the irc channel for coop right?
20:32:47  <Koala> Or that's a different channel
20:32:51  <TrueBrain> sorry to disappointed :(
20:32:57  <Koala> Oh
20:33:08  <TrueBrain> this feels like: "you are Felicity right?" "No, I am Anna" "Owh, sorry, BYYEEEE"
20:33:15  <Koala> No no no
20:33:32  <Koala> I'm still gonna be on here, just never used an irc channel before
20:33:33  <TrueBrain> this is #openttd, talking about the development of #openttd .. sometimes
20:33:35  <TrueBrain> rarely, tbh
20:33:38  <Koala> AH
20:33:53  <Koala> Development as in game coding?
20:33:56  <Koala> Or gameplay
20:33:57  <TrueBrain> does coop still have an IRC channel? I dunno, honestly ..
20:34:03  <Koala> No idea
20:34:09  <TrueBrain> most of us haven't played in MONTHS if not years :P
20:34:14  <Koala> Ohh
20:34:15  <TrueBrain> doesn't mean anything, honestly
20:34:22  <Koala> Well I'm very active lol
20:34:33  <TrueBrain> poink poink poink
20:34:38  <Koala> Still in school, so not playing near as much as I'd like
20:34:51  <TrueBrain> after school you will neither, sad truth of life :P
20:34:54  <LordAro> ^
20:35:02  <Koala> I suppose
20:35:14  <Koala> That is a very sad truth indeed
20:35:22  <TrueBrain> frosch123: <- fixed the <small> issue
20:35:27  <TrueBrain> server redeployed, memory seems a bit better now
20:35:31  <TrueBrain> (as you can see, I can commit again :P)
20:35:46  <Koala> Pardon?
20:36:18  <frosch123> TrueBrain: what a useful editing test :)
20:36:27  <Koala> Oh not for me :P
20:36:33  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I am a bit disappointed that all you could muster so far is to point out one thing you consider "terrible" :P
20:36:59  <TrueBrain> 40 seconds to redeploy with a hot-cache .. that is not bad :)
20:37:29  <andythenorth> coop has a channel, but it's mostly vacant
20:37:53  <TrueBrain> frosch123: what just broke is a bit of a terrible way of things to break .. as it will be nearly invisible to the user .. only I get a sentry report that tells me something is wrong ..
20:38:02  <TrueBrain> but it does prevent users waiting for 4+ seconds when pressing Save
20:38:07  <TrueBrain> not sure what the right thing to do is here
20:38:21  <frosch123> TrueBrain: can you detect it somehow, and put the wiki into readonly mode?
20:38:40  <Koala> Oh, I'll have to check out the coop channel sometime, must go for now!
20:38:41  <TrueBrain> if "pushing" fails, it simply reloads GitHub
20:38:42  *** Koala has quit IRC
20:38:46  <TrueBrain> and your change just disappears
20:38:55  <TrueBrain> but I think your solution is better :)
20:39:44  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
20:40:09  <frosch123> well, 20 years ago i used to run to the computer room between lessons. but now you probably have a mobile device
20:40:10  <TrueBrain>
20:40:12  <TrueBrain> something to fix tomorrow :)
20:41:20  <TrueBrain> peak memory is now 70%
20:41:23  <TrueBrain> @calc 256 * 0.7
20:41:23  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 179.2
20:41:41  *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd
20:42:49  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: okay, run your crawler again for a bit please? Lets see how it handles stress :P
20:43:21  <TrueBrain> I have seen this wiki too much now, I don't even know where to click to see if things are working/broken :P
20:43:33  *** Wormnest has quit IRC
20:45:10  <andythenorth> I've pretty much maxed out my connection :P
20:45:19  <andythenorth> 164 threads running currently
20:45:26  <TrueBrain> that explains the latency :P
20:45:36  <TrueBrain> holy crap :P
20:45:58  <LordAro> haha
20:46:03  <andythenorth> yeah it's hurting it a bit
20:46:11  <TrueBrain> yeah ... :P
20:46:13  <TrueBrain> okay, tnx andythenorth  :)
20:46:14  <TrueBrain> you can stop now :P
20:46:28  <andythenorth> stopped
20:46:38  <TrueBrain> the difference is insane :D
20:46:42  <andythenorth> surprised my kids weren't complaining
20:46:47  <andythenorth> roblox probably stopped
20:47:12  <TrueBrain> but, by clicking around, found anything wrong LordAro  / andythenorth ?
20:47:16  <TrueBrain> like a real show-stopper or anything?
20:47:39  <TrueBrain> memory went from 52% to 57% during your "attack" andythenorth  :P
20:47:43  <TrueBrain> so it seems that has very little impact
20:48:42  <andythenorth> I didn't find anything obviously broken
20:48:50  <andythenorth> $somebody ought to do some more CSS
20:48:55  <andythenorth> but the community, right?
20:49:23  <TrueBrain> if you are the community, sure
20:49:24  <TrueBrain> :P
20:49:34  <TrueBrain> okay, OOM again
20:49:34  <TrueBrain> lol
20:49:45  <TrueBrain> that really does need fixing :D
20:50:49  <TrueBrain> it was a nice idea, to do stuff out-of-process
20:50:51  <TrueBrain> but ... :P
20:53:23  *** jottyfan has joined #openttd
20:53:25  <TrueBrain> okay, 384MB RAM assigned now
20:53:29  <TrueBrain> that for sure should be enough :P
20:53:34  <TrueBrain> famous last words
20:55:31  <TrueBrain> lol ... this has corrupted the cache-file
20:55:36  <TrueBrain> and ... there is no code to recover from that :D
20:58:16  <andythenorth> winning
20:59:13  <andythenorth> frosch123 you used to have a newsletter about how bad smooth economy is?
20:59:16  <andythenorth> I have lost my copy
20:59:40  * andythenorth considering a random production change in FIRS, alongside supplies
21:00:49  <FLHerne> No thanks
21:01:06  <FLHerne> Random production changes are incredibly annoying for making pretty networks :-(
21:01:16  *** jottyfan has quit IRC
21:01:37  <FLHerne> Because it forces you to build huge stations everywhere to absorb the train backlog
21:01:53  <FLHerne> Or do that thing where long trains vanish into 1-tile depots repeatedly
21:04:10  <andythenorth> escape depots?
21:04:15  <andythenorth> I use those a lot :)
21:04:34  <FLHerne> Cheat :p
21:06:40  <glx> <TrueBrain> that for sure should be enough :P <-- yeah like the old 640kB limit ;)
21:07:18  <TrueBrain> exactly!
21:09:14  <TrueBrain> "Cache was corrupted; reloading metadata ..."
21:09:22  <TrueBrain> okay, not ideal, but at least it can now recover on its own :)
21:11:00  <TrueBrain> owh, and I guess now it is not going to make it's deadline ... lol ..
21:11:03  <TrueBrain> it's? its ..
21:11:20  <TrueBrain> well, this turned out to be fun :D
21:11:33  <frosch123> fun or "fun" ?
21:11:37  <TrueBrain> both
21:11:41  <TrueBrain> I am annoyed that this did work on staging
21:11:51  <TrueBrain> but that we fiddled just enough for it to break on pre-production
21:12:35  <TrueBrain> yeah, it failed to make the deadline, so now it is endlessly trying to start :D
21:16:06  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
21:24:32  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
21:25:20  <TrueBrain> frosch123: well, I downloaded the repo .. 30 times now? :P
21:25:26  <TrueBrain> so we will see if we get an email from GitHub :P
21:27:25  <frosch123> well, it is actually not that big
21:27:57  <TrueBrain> okay, wiki is now running on 384MB RAM
21:28:02  <frosch123> otoh, i am kind of surprised how big the .git folder of openttd is
21:28:06  <TrueBrain> tomorrow I will see if I can reduce the memory requirement
21:28:45  <TrueBrain> but otherwise, this should be able to go live honestly
21:28:54  <TrueBrain> don't want to before we have that read-only protection in place :P
21:29:54  <frosch123> i'll push some templates to staging, so it can be used as sandbox in a meaningful way
21:30:06  <TrueBrain> :D
21:30:10  <TrueBrain> sounds like a plan
21:30:24  <TrueBrain> I did limit staging a bit more on memory btw, as it was using a lot less with this emptiness :D
21:30:38  <TrueBrain> I think tomorrow I first provision bigger ECS nodes
21:30:46  <frosch123> i won't push everything :p
21:31:01  <TrueBrain> we are now over 80% memory reservation
21:31:03  <TrueBrain> I don't like that :)
21:32:14  <TrueBrain> frosch123: what was your plan, to point every language to the english
21:32:36  <TrueBrain> <- for that liesmich.txt :)
21:32:55  <frosch123> that was my plan for english. i did not consider translations
21:33:15  <TrueBrain> well, translators can figure that out :P
21:33:25  <frosch123> but i don't want copies of stuff on the wiki, which are more up-to-date somewhere else
21:33:46  <TrueBrain> I agree :)
21:35:00  <TrueBrain> "Manual is an open source project, published under the GPL. "
21:35:11  <TrueBrain> guess it is GFDL, not GPL? :)
21:35:25  <TrueBrain> owh, no, that should read OpenTTD
21:35:25  <TrueBrain> lol
21:35:32  <frosch123> lol
21:36:23  <frosch123> yeah, i noticed... many pages linked [[OpenTTD]], but that actually linked to the manual
21:36:23  <TrueBrain> FIXED SOMETHING MORE :D
21:36:55  <frosch123> so the link was misleading before as well, just noone clicked it
21:37:27  <TrueBrain> okay, everything is a lot more snappy now it has sufficient memory :D
21:37:31  <TrueBrain> shocker, I know right
21:37:34  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i'll make a PR to use the {{forum}} template everywhere
21:37:40  <frosch123> that way everything will be https
21:37:47  <TrueBrain> cool :)
21:37:59  <frosch123> editing the wiki with sed is so cool :)
21:38:02  <TrueBrain> I would like some more testers, but it seems nobody really wants to :P
21:38:08  <TrueBrain> yes, yes it is :)
21:38:34  <TrueBrain> after a commit, memory increases by 6% .. that is odd :P
21:38:45  <TrueBrain> (especially as the commit is done out-of-process)
21:38:49  <andythenorth> we'd get better value testing if we edited some content
21:38:59  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: go for it :)
21:38:59  <andythenorth> where is that page that lies about how cdist works?
21:39:12  <andythenorth> oh is the lolz FIRS page still there?
21:39:13  * andythenorth looks
21:39:22  <TrueBrain> right bottom corner is "Folder"
21:39:31  <TrueBrain> I am guessing "Archive" is a good place to start looking
21:39:50  <frosch123> andythenorth: with translations
21:40:08  <andythenorth> why does the front page have a list item 'NewGRF and NewGRF'
21:40:11  <andythenorth> with 2 links
21:40:12  <TrueBrain> awh, Community .. not Archive :)
21:40:12  <frosch123> andythenorth: <- but maybe you want to read those before bed
21:40:25  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: hover over them .. :)
21:40:27  <frosch123> andythenorth: frontpage needs cleaning up
21:40:28  <TrueBrain> we have stuff to fix ;)
21:40:41  <frosch123> andythenorth: i will do that on staging first though
21:40:50  <andythenorth> frosch123 this one is mad
21:41:35  <frosch123> no pictures though
21:41:57  <frosch123> i liked that other one, that put so much focus on how your hq should look like
21:42:37  <frosch123> oh, i guess you are not in the sc2 news loop. but there was a funny rant about player feedback
21:43:01  <frosch123>
21:43:15  * andythenorth watches
21:44:06  <andythenorth> oh that video features me
21:44:29  * andythenorth pretends to look like that
21:46:22  <andythenorth> I made a thing about feedback once
21:49:05  <frosch123> last time you showed them they were using flash
21:52:20  <TrueBrain> I don't really get why this is using so much memory, honestly .. it is using fork()
21:52:29  <TrueBrain> that doesn't duplicate memory, does it?
21:52:34  <TrueBrain> it is a CoW?
21:52:51  <TrueBrain> hmm, the question of course is: does Docker count it as a CoW, if it is
21:54:03  <TrueBrain> yeah, CoW is shown as still being used by the child
21:54:08  <TrueBrain> so that is where I went wrong, gotcha
21:54:19  <frosch123> iirc security people usually disable KSM. no idea whether that affects this case
21:55:17  <TrueBrain> pretty sure I can use "spawn" in this case, instead of "fork", for git operations
21:55:25  <TrueBrain> as it doesn't need anything from the parent process
21:55:38  <TrueBrain> for the metadata scan, however, it does need some information
21:57:27  <TrueBrain> memory usage is at 42% now .. so that does fit nicely twice in memory
21:57:31  <TrueBrain> but it is still a bit meh
21:59:18  <TrueBrain> maybe I should approach this a bit different, and let the out-of-process analyze a single file
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21:59:22  <TrueBrain> and return what it has found
21:59:26  <TrueBrain> and process that in the main process
21:59:56  <TrueBrain> as updating the dicts is quick
22:00:20  <andythenorth> is bedtime?
22:00:52  <TrueBrain> would also allow me to use sys.internal()
22:00:57  <TrueBrain> which, as we know, saves a lot of memory :P
22:01:11  <frosch123> TrueBrain: a process for each file? sounds like fork death
22:01:34  * andythenorth has a Horse idea
22:01:35  <andythenorth> oof
22:01:38  <TrueBrain> no, well, kinda
22:01:42  <TrueBrain> I use PoolExecutor
22:01:44  <frosch123> can you use async to yield after processing each file?
22:01:48  <TrueBrain> I set the worker to a max of 5, or what-ever
22:01:51  <TrueBrain> and it will process the queue
22:02:20  <TrueBrain> well, async would yield the main process every time it starts to analyze a file
22:02:21  <frosch123> if you return to the main thread after each file, i see no point in a separate process
22:02:25  <TrueBrain> which gives plenty of time to handle a request
22:02:43  <TrueBrain> a single file can take 4+ seconds
22:02:45  <TrueBrain> that is the issue :)
22:02:55  <frosch123> maybe i misunderstood what you meant with "single file"
22:02:57  <TrueBrain> 4 seconds is a long time to stall EVERYTHING :)
22:03:01  <TrueBrain> 1 page
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22:03:09  <frosch123> 4 seconds? but they render in 30ms?
22:03:17  <TrueBrain> MOST render in that time
22:03:19  <TrueBrain> we have exceptions
22:03:23  <TrueBrain> those who include 100+ templates
22:03:44  <frosch123> so it would also stall when someone views them?
22:03:51  <TrueBrain> it takes the server 288 seconds to do the metadata
22:03:54  <TrueBrain> @calc 288 / 10993
22:03:54  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.0261984899481
22:03:58  <TrueBrain> on average, 26ms
22:04:05  <TrueBrain> hmm, yes, it would
22:04:16  <TrueBrain> rendering in the background too you say? :D
22:04:27  <frosch123> then i see no reason to not also stall for indexing
22:04:34  <TrueBrain> fair
22:04:38  <frosch123> if you want non-stalling viewing, go the render-to-disk route
22:04:52  <TrueBrain> but that does require I can release async for a sec
22:04:55  <TrueBrain> but that should be no issue
22:05:02  <TrueBrain> that means I only have to do git operations out-of-process
22:05:05  <TrueBrain> that simplifies it a bit
22:08:11  <TrueBrain> guess a sleep of 0.1 or something should be enough
22:09:38  <TrueBrain> and for git commits I can just use "spawn" instead of "fork"
22:09:46  <TrueBrain> that consumes only 40MB of RAM
22:09:51  <TrueBrain> instead of what-ever the parent was using :P
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22:13:56  <frosch123> someone should improve the css, h2 and h3 almost look the same :)
22:14:10  <TrueBrain> so many more things that really could use ... someone with the eye for CSS :P
22:14:23  <TrueBrain> but in this case, I think I stole that from gollum or mediawiki
22:27:49  <TrueBrain> okay, without doing it out-of-process, it is a bit slugish
22:27:52  <TrueBrain> but it is working
22:28:14  <TrueBrain> especially images take a while
22:28:35  <TrueBrain> between 500ms and 800ms response times
22:28:43  <TrueBrain> this happens when someone for example edits Template:- :P
22:29:38  <andythenorth> Christmas Stylesheet Santa
22:29:43  <andythenorth> n
22:30:16  <TrueBrain> so that solution means it is noticeable someone pressed "Save" frosch123
22:30:19  <TrueBrain> otherwise it does work
22:30:29  <frosch123> :)
22:30:49  <TrueBrain> not sure I really like the slowness it adds, but I agree: if that is a real issue, pre-render :)
22:31:25  <TrueBrain> well, and you know sys.internal() is going to help, when a fresh scan consumes 80MB of RAM
22:31:28  <TrueBrain> and a JSON load does 100MB
22:31:29  <frosch123> that change halfes the memory requirement?
22:31:32  <TrueBrain> we have seen that before!! :P
22:31:38  <TrueBrain> yes
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22:32:55  <TrueBrain> and you now slowly see the languages loading :P
22:35:05  <frosch123> feels pretty fast to me
22:35:54  <TrueBrain> I did not commit it yet :P
22:36:18  <frosch123> ah, so i can't see it loading :)
22:37:09  <TrueBrain> nope
22:37:16  <TrueBrain> didn't we add "sys.internal()" in eints?
22:37:24  <frosch123> yes
22:37:32  <TrueBrain> can't find it :P
22:37:33  <frosch123> eints uses the STR_xyz as keys in dicts
22:38:29  <frosch123>
22:38:38  <TrueBrain> intern
22:38:39  <TrueBrain> ha
22:38:42  <TrueBrain> cheers
22:39:29  <TrueBrain> 86556 before
22:40:43  <frosch123> kib?
22:41:18  <TrueBrain> 70104 after
22:41:31  <TrueBrain> 101928 after restart
22:41:37  <TrueBrain> without sys.intern is a restart
22:41:43  <TrueBrain> what-ever "ps aux" reports
22:41:50  <TrueBrain> I think it is KB, might be KiB, dunno
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22:47:51  <TrueBrain> 73788 after reload
22:47:56  <TrueBrain> what a difference :D
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22:55:49  <TrueBrain> funny ... the more sys.intern(), the higher memory usage :P
22:55:54  <TrueBrain> but it is now 75044
22:55:55  <TrueBrain> :P
22:56:23  <frosch123> there must be some downside to it
22:56:31  <TrueBrain> to sys.intern()?
22:56:33  <frosch123> it only makes sense if strings are actually used multiple times
22:56:40  <frosch123> yes, sys.intern
22:56:41  <TrueBrain> yup
22:56:56  <TrueBrain> and that is why it is using ~5000KB more memory
22:57:01  <TrueBrain> (over a full rebuild)
22:57:35  <TrueBrain> but we go from 100MB to 75MB
22:57:39  <TrueBrain> that 5MB ... is fine, honestly :)
22:58:55  <TrueBrain> okay, time to make a PR out of this
22:59:02  <TrueBrain> this is a huge memory-improvement
22:59:11  <TrueBrain> at the cost of some increased latency
22:59:38  <TrueBrain> just if people edit Template/en/- a lot, it is noticeable :)
22:59:44  <TrueBrain> otherwise ... pretty sure nobody will notice
23:00:28  <frosch123> well, they no longer need to edit it to link translations :p
23:05:05  <TrueBrain> hmm, maybe I should use forkserver instead of spawn
23:05:09  <TrueBrain> that leaves the server running in the background
23:05:15  <TrueBrain> means OOMs happen or at the start
23:05:17  <TrueBrain> or don't
23:05:18  <TrueBrain> hmm
23:05:25  <TrueBrain> meh
23:05:32  <TrueBrain> too much chance something else breaks
23:07:16  <frosch123> are you also serving the images via aiohttp?
23:07:24  <frosch123> and the other static files?
23:07:31  <TrueBrain> yes .......... :D
23:07:44  <frosch123> so, the same as gollum, just faster
23:07:51  <TrueBrain> insanely faster, yes
23:08:30  <TrueBrain> something I do plan to fix btw
23:08:52  <TrueBrain> okay, do I index metadata slower, giving a more responsive system during
23:08:56  <TrueBrain> or faster, making it more laggy
23:08:57  <TrueBrain> choices
23:09:39  <TrueBrain> it takes ~288 seconds to build on the server .. I now added a 50 second delay
23:09:44  <TrueBrain> I guess that is a fair balance
23:10:10  <TrueBrain> feels fast
23:10:32  <TrueBrain> anyway, for the static files .. I guess I put CloudFront before this service, with a cache-time of like 5 minutes
23:10:48  <TrueBrain> means that an edit becomes visible within 5 minutes
23:11:07  <TrueBrain> sounds like a cheap solution for now
23:11:15  <TrueBrain> (owh, and cache is ignored if you have the wiki_sid cookie)
23:12:52  <TrueBrain> so, 80MB + 50MB = 130MB .. let's call it 192, should be sufficient
23:12:58  <TrueBrain> that is 50% the current value :P
23:14:07  <frosch123> same value as with the old data, magic :)
23:14:28  <TrueBrain> 2020-11-13 00:14:11 INFO     Loading metadata done; took 306.29 seconds <- took 188 before I added a slight delay
23:14:34  <TrueBrain> @calc 306 - 188
23:14:34  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 118
23:14:39  <TrueBrain> I expected 50
23:14:40  <TrueBrain> lol
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23:19:15  <TrueBrain> is what I cooked up
23:19:28  <TrueBrain> I will merge it in a sec
23:20:43  <TrueBrain> if any of the GitHub runners want to kick in ...
23:20:50  <TrueBrain> ah, GUI issue
23:21:00  <TrueBrain> right .. try it out now frosch123  :)
23:21:06  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] GuitarWag opened issue #82: [pt_BR] Translator access request
23:21:31  <TrueBrain> I am curious what you think of the lag
23:21:47  <TrueBrain> (as in, test it locally; deploying this will take a bit longer :D)
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23:22:05  <frosch123> ah, that way :)
23:23:10  <frosch123> yeah, it's a bit slower :)
23:23:24  <frosch123> he, dutch was indexed first :p
23:23:30  <TrueBrain> totally RNG :)
23:23:34  <TrueBrain> well, order of FS
23:23:36  <TrueBrain> which is RNG :P
23:23:51  <TrueBrain> during indexing strange things can happen
23:23:55  <frosch123> it's funny how the page changes on every reload
23:23:58  <TrueBrain> deduplication and ordering is done at the end
23:24:38  <TrueBrain> but yeah ... it takes ~5 minutes once
23:24:41  <frosch123> it has many languages, but not en :)
23:24:44  <TrueBrain> and how-ever-many-pages you hit after
23:25:07  <TrueBrain> where - is the worst page I could find
23:25:12  <TrueBrain> which touches I believe 40% of the pages :P
23:26:37  <frosch123> is it still? we deleted all those after other_languages
23:26:49  <TrueBrain> owh, then it might not
23:26:56  <TrueBrain> I got that 40% value from before you did that :P
23:27:09  <frosch123> 1.2k matches
23:27:31  <TrueBrain> funny, it now consumes more memory on staging :D
23:27:45  <frosch123> though some of them are in templates, so it may spread from there
23:27:52  <TrueBrain> yeah, that was the issue .. templates :P
23:27:57  <TrueBrain> templates on templates on templates
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23:29:20  <TrueBrain> k, deploying to production
23:29:28  <frosch123> loadnig metadata done
23:29:39  <frosch123> it took not longer than before for me
23:29:43  <frosch123> (i think)
23:29:48  <TrueBrain> I removed the delay in the end
23:29:52  <frosch123> ah
23:29:55  <TrueBrain> I noticed it either doesn't use 100% CPU
23:29:56  <TrueBrain> or it does
23:30:02  <TrueBrain> and where it ends up, depends on the CPU
23:30:09  <TrueBrain> so either the latency was < 200ms
23:30:12  <TrueBrain> or it was > 700ms
23:30:15  <TrueBrain> so meh .. what-ever ...
23:31:09  <TrueBrain> okay, old version operates at 42% memory, and that is without the fork() that is being made when ever needed
23:31:16  <TrueBrain> (as that is too short for the metrics to pick it up)
23:33:26  <TrueBrain> service Live-Production-Wiki was unable to place a task because no container instance met all of its requirements. The closest matching container-instance NNN has insufficient memory available. For more information
23:33:30  <TrueBrain> I was afraid of that :D
23:34:22  <TrueBrain> I just killed the current pod :P
23:35:08  <frosch123> what? aws is out of cpu power?
23:35:15  <TrueBrain> our cluster is out of memory
23:35:18  <TrueBrain> well, reservation
23:36:53  <TrueBrain> and I can either add 2 more nodes, or scale the current nodes up
23:36:56  <TrueBrain> both have their advantages
23:37:01  <TrueBrain> something for this weekend or what-ever
23:37:25  <TrueBrain> its baaacccckkkk
23:37:58  <TrueBrain> I triggered a metadata scan
23:38:07  <TrueBrain> it is .. noticeable :D
23:38:25  <TrueBrain> by the time people complain, it is restored :P
23:38:25  <frosch123> yes, mostly because of the flags
23:38:34  <TrueBrain> yeah, some caching will fix that
23:38:50  <TrueBrain> seems aiohttp sends annoying cache headers
23:38:54  <TrueBrain> it revalidates constantly
23:40:03  <TrueBrain> (this is editing Template/en/- btw .. it is still busy :P)
23:40:21  <TrueBrain> such a horrible template to edit :)
23:41:23  <TrueBrain> memory is at 30% .. that is a huge difference :P Lol
23:41:39  <TrueBrain> ah, reindex is done :P
23:42:40  <TrueBrain> right, let me redeploy a lower memory pod .. and that is enough for 1 day :P
23:42:49  <TrueBrain> tomorrow I add the if-error-go-readonly
23:43:02  <TrueBrain> and see about some decent caching
23:43:45  <TrueBrain> this is btw the biggest drawback of Python .. its GIL :P
23:44:09  <TrueBrain> if they ever manage to remove it, or at least make it less annoying for threading ... dammmnnnnn
23:44:45  <TrueBrain> like: I-know-what-I-am-doing-this-code-is-self-contained, or whatever :P
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23:48:14  <TrueBrain> euh ... git cloning no longer works now :P Lol ...
23:48:18  <TrueBrain> this is the evening of the weird shit :D
23:48:34  <frosch123> not enough memory for git? :p
23:49:04  <TrueBrain> that would be very odd :P
23:49:13  <TrueBrain> I think it is the ssh that is giving shit
23:49:27  <TrueBrain> error: did not send all necessary objects
23:50:13  <frosch123> no mail yet about pull quota :p
23:50:37  <TrueBrain> this morning I had issues connecting to too
23:50:42  <TrueBrain> Heroku had an error earlier
23:50:50  <TrueBrain> not sure what is going on with GitHub today :)
23:50:55  <TrueBrain> they are having a bad day it seems
23:51:05  <frosch123> true. it also registered a new host key
23:51:37  <TrueBrain> 3rd attempt, also failing ...
23:51:41  <TrueBrain> it worked at 00:36 :P
23:52:44  <TrueBrain> ssh is always a bit more annoying, I have to say .. but for BaNaNaS it has worked out fine so far
23:53:58  <TrueBrain> attempt #4 ...
23:54:30  <TrueBrain> nope
23:58:01  <TrueBrain> owh well, sounds like a problem for tomorrow-me
23:58:02  <TrueBrain> night

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