Log for #openttd on 15th December 2020:
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01:14:46  <milek7> TrueBrain: bananas websocket is not yet running, right?
01:31:11  <milek7>
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02:02:30  <milek7> it should have some ability to connect with 1.10.3 servers
02:21:40  <milek7> oh, and c++17 changes broke building on stretch
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06:00:57  <ekangmonyet> Hi!  Just came across openTTD and decided to try.  The audio doesn't work with my pulseaudio, it seems like an old problem but I can't find any solution around.
06:01:50  <ekangmonyet> It keeps complaining: ALSA lib ....(snd_pcm_dmix_open) unable to open slave.  Even though I tried specifying SDL_AUDIODRIVER=pulseaudio / having pulseaudio-alsa installed
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07:27:49  <gregdek> Does anyone have any information on running a NoAI tournament server?
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07:56:41  <LordAro> ekangmonyet: usually the issue is a missing midi player (fluidsynth/timidity), rather than any issue with pulseaudio/alsa
07:57:08  <LordAro> make sure a music/sound set is actually selected, too
07:57:17  <LordAro> won't play anything otherwise ;)
08:00:08  <ekangmonyet> i have both timidity and fluidsynth installed, I tried using the openmsx package from AUR too
08:01:00  <LordAro> make sure it's actually selected in game
08:01:07  <LordAro> (game options)
08:05:46  <LordAro> (you only need 1 of the midi players, fluidsynth is generally preferred these days)
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08:10:59  <ekangmonyet> Ah I see, I totally missed that one out
08:11:07  <ekangmonyet> but the music is still not playing
08:11:25  <ekangmonyet> the player keeps going through the whole playlist
08:12:43  <ekangmonyet> i fed the midi file to mpv it worked fine
08:16:44  <ekangmonyet> ah I saw this on github issue, let me try debugging
08:17:50  <LordAro> going through the whole playlist implies missing midi support
08:18:27  <LordAro> presumably the package has actually been compiled with support for it
08:20:18  <TrueBrain> Freepats installed? Or what as the package with midi synths
08:23:29  <ekangmonyet> yep got it working after i specified the path to the soundfonts file
08:23:48  <ekangmonyet> thank you all =D
08:23:57  <ekangmonyet> im gonna explore this for a while heh
08:24:49  <LordAro> getting midi working is such a common problem, we could probably add more warning windows for these scenarios
08:26:08  <ekangmonyet> i am interested to help too
08:26:37  <ekangmonyet> maybe a health-check and warnings in STDERR at the minimum
08:30:00  <TrueBrain> If you can find a way to streamline the midi experience, yes please
08:30:42  <andythenorth> so when we replace the vehicle modding framework
08:30:48  <andythenorth> can we call it grftoo?
08:30:59  <andythenorth> or grfTooOh
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08:33:44  <Xaroth> you could call it hsg, which is grf but all the letters moved by one.
08:35:44  <andythenorth> hsgtoo
08:36:03  <andythenorth> the main thing is the names
08:36:10  <ekangmonyet> TrueBrain: sure, i can give it a try
08:39:07  <andythenorth> I would like to see grf replaced before I die
08:39:32  <andythenorth> let's say I am about 40 ish, and most of my family live to 80-90
08:39:45  <andythenorth> so if I am lucky, we have about 30 years or so to do it
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08:51:57  <TrueBrain> "let's say I am about 40 ish" ... lol :D
08:52:19  <TrueBrain> LordAro: did that review deal include a follow-up review, or what can I do for you to earn that? :D :D :D
08:52:55  <LordAro> TrueBrain: yeah, i'll have another look soon :p
08:53:07  <TrueBrain> :D
08:53:15  <TrueBrain> too many PRs require a preview before merging :P
08:56:31  <TrueBrain> I cannot believe CodeQL things "await res" is a noop
08:56:38  <TrueBrain> it cannot possibly be a noop, in no context
08:56:52  <TrueBrain> I hadn't seen a real false positive from it :)
08:58:42  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8352: Change: set the default setting for autorenew to on for new games
09:08:30  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.4.6
09:11:42  <andythenorth> I mean, if I die before we replace grf
09:11:50  <andythenorth> I'm not going to care that much
09:12:00  <andythenorth> I can live with it
09:12:09  <TrueBrain> I am scared to death that you hunt us from the afterlife, I have to admit
09:12:19  <andythenorth> I could make a longevity bot
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09:12:35  <andythenorth> hmm, maybe we just invented a form of immortality here
09:12:49  <andythenorth> if you can't live, but you can continue having the same effect on the world...?
09:13:06  <TrueBrain> that would be short of horrible
09:13:07  <TrueBrain> not you
09:13:12  <TrueBrain> but .. like .. so many people
09:13:34  <TrueBrain> to go into extremes: take a Hitler
09:13:35  <TrueBrain> :P
09:13:48  <Xaroth> This conversation is really going places
09:14:09  <TrueBrain> well, you joined, what did you expect?
09:14:29  <Xaroth> I joined many a moon ago, pretty sure this.. whatever it is.. cannot be attributed to me! :P
09:14:44  <andythenorth> grf 2 though
09:15:03  <andythenorth> maybe we could call it 'new' ...something
09:17:16  <TrueBrain> yes, let's start with the name :) And work from there :P
09:17:23  <LordAro> newandy
09:17:52  <andythenorth> names beginning with A are often more successful
09:19:14  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8307: Feature: Show group name as part of the default vehicle name.
09:19:29  <TrueBrain> I need opinions ^^ :)
09:19:52  <andythenorth> is that not merged yet?
09:20:06  <andythenorth> # is not universally understand as 'member of a list'
09:20:09  <andythenorth> around the world
09:20:16  <andythenorth> I'd just drop it, and merge
09:20:19  <andythenorth> it's a nice feature
09:20:32  <TrueBrain> for Buoys we already do #
09:20:42  <andythenorth> consistency is a hobgoblin :P
09:20:47  <TrueBrain> and yes, the game is inconsistent :D
09:20:52  <andythenorth> and stations we do #
09:20:57  <TrueBrain> Waypoints too
09:21:06  <TrueBrain> a lovely mixed bag :)
09:21:08  <TrueBrain> Depots ...
09:21:09  <TrueBrain> haha
09:21:20  <TrueBrain> so basically, on most places BUT vehicles that are ungrouped :D
09:21:32  <TrueBrain> default name of a group is "Group 0"
09:21:35  <TrueBrain> so doing "Group 0 0"
09:21:37  <TrueBrain> that is silly
09:21:51  <andythenorth> yes
09:22:00  <TrueBrain> "Group 0 #0" is slightly better, still silly :D
09:22:02  <andythenorth> ok nice chat, include the # everywhere, move on
09:22:14  <TrueBrain> you are not getting out of this THAT easy :P
09:22:27  <FLHerne> TrueBrain: Yes please, with hash
09:22:28  <andythenorth> I'm here all day
09:22:39  <TrueBrain> FLHerne: but should it also be Train #1, in that case?
09:22:46  <FLHerne> Possibly yes
09:22:49  <andythenorth> THAT WOULD BE A SEPARATE COMMIT
09:22:50  <andythenorth> or something
09:22:52  <FLHerne> ^
09:22:56  <TrueBrain> for sure :)
09:23:00  <andythenorth> I dunno, I used to get yelled at for not separating concerns
09:23:04  <andythenorth> then those people left
09:23:26  <TrueBrain> let the past be the past ;)
09:23:57  <andythenorth> Ungrouped #2?
09:24:00  <TrueBrain> but is # really not universally seen as "part of a group"?
09:24:17  <TrueBrain> guess if you code too long .. you forget silly things in cultures :)
09:24:21  <andythenorth> I am not aware of any GH issues mentioning it
09:24:50  <TrueBrain> good point, even GH uses # :P
09:25:01  <andythenorth> I made the point, you proved we already have the precedent...
09:25:14  <andythenorth> All trains are in a group anyway
09:25:22  <andythenorth> Even if that group is 'Ungrouped'
09:25:32  <andythenorth> So 'Ungrouped #99' for names
09:26:13  <TrueBrain> only works if you ever made a single group
09:26:21  <TrueBrain> I wonder how many people use groups
09:26:24  <TrueBrain> we need telemetry :D
09:28:03  <andythenorth> I make groups
09:28:06  <andythenorth> telemetry count: 1
09:28:10  <TrueBrain> :D
09:28:16  <andythenorth> do a survey
09:29:20  <andythenorth> I just tried changing it in game to # for ungrouped vehicles
09:29:31  <andythenorth> 1) that name button is really really hard to find
09:29:34  <andythenorth> 2) # is fine
09:29:46  <TrueBrain> cheers
09:30:08  <TrueBrain> now for the patch itself ... it is a bit wonky :)
09:30:49  <andythenorth> there are some good studies in UI design about how things like ':' on field names don't really matter
09:31:01  <andythenorth> and even consistency doesn't really matter, beyond being consistent in each page
09:31:02  <FLHerne> TrueBrain: We could switch to № :p
09:31:26  <TrueBrain> FLHerne: don't tempt me :P
09:31:34  <andythenorth> Just emoji everything
09:31:37  <FLHerne> Is the '#' localisable currently, or just hardcoded?
09:31:38  <TrueBrain> I really do not like # in the OpenGFX font :P
09:31:42  <andythenorth> Or put the numbles in a bubble
09:31:45  <TrueBrain> localisable
09:31:55  <andythenorth> TrueBrain the obvious solution there is to replace that font :P
09:31:59  <FLHerne> Well, ok, definitely # everywhere then
09:32:10  <FLHerne> If someone's language doesn't do # they can use something else
09:32:23  <TrueBrain> FLHerne: good point, tnx :) Was looking for something like that :D
09:32:33  <FLHerne> (presumably "" is a valid something else)
09:32:45  <TrueBrain> :{GROUP} #{COMMA}
09:32:50  <TrueBrain> so .. lot of room :)
09:32:54  * andythenorth wonders what a numble is?
09:33:16  <andythenorth> I think a numble is one of those bubbles with a number in, as used on notification counts etc
09:34:01  <andythenorth> oh, no it's other things
09:34:02  <FLHerne> I don't think using that for an ID number would be semantically right
09:34:30  <andythenorth> Urban Dictionary, surprisingly SFW today
09:34:46  <FLHerne> Those definitely imply that it's a count of things, particularly of things needing attention
09:35:57  <andythenorth> maybe I could get Bootstrap UI to accept a patch renaming the bubbles as numbles
09:36:01  <andythenorth> then I WIN
09:36:07  <andythenorth> is it 2021 yet?
09:38:20  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8307: Feature: Show group name as part of the default vehicle name.
09:38:24  <TrueBrain> so something like this then?
09:38:37  <TrueBrain> (don't worry, they are 2 commits)
09:39:27  <andythenorth> \o/
09:39:33  <andythenorth> so Group #88 also? :P
09:39:34  <andythenorth> oof
09:39:46  <andythenorth> Group #88 #2
09:40:31  <FLHerne> Agh
09:40:39  <andythenorth> Group 88 #2
09:40:39  <FLHerne> That's the obvious conclusion, but looks terrible
09:40:44  <andythenorth> Group #88 - #2
09:41:17  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8307: Feature: Show group name as part of the default vehicle name.
09:41:19  <andythenorth> All UI design is picking the least crap of the crap options :)
09:41:31  <TrueBrain> lucky, creating groups shows the edit dialog
09:41:37  <TrueBrain> so it is less likely someone uses "Group 0" :)
09:42:20  <FLHerne> Creating trains should show the edit dialog
09:42:26  <andythenorth> Oof
09:42:28  <FLHerne> There's no way this would annoy everyone
09:42:42  <andythenorth> That 'rename group' dialog doesn't confuse me every time
09:42:49  <andythenorth> Anyway, merge it
09:42:50  <FLHerne> Oh, that
09:43:07  <FLHerne> So should groups have a #? Does anyone care?
09:43:12  <andythenorth> No they shouldn't
09:43:20  <andythenorth> because we can add them later if we're wrong now
09:43:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8307: Feature: Show group name as part of the default vehicle name.
09:43:38  <andythenorth> Take today's improvement, nothing else go worse
09:43:40  <andythenorth> got *
09:43:46  <andythenorth> Tomorrow is another day, etc
09:43:50  <andythenorth> I should make T-Shirts
09:43:57  <TrueBrain> so many .. you would be rich :)
09:43:59  <andythenorth> Typo-Shirts
09:44:13  <andythenorth> I meant so say something meaningful butI can't type
09:44:14  <TrueBrain> but indeed, "Group 0" is fine, as it is very unlikely you are going to keep that name
09:44:23  <TrueBrain> "Train #1" looks better, as you are unlikely to name it :)
09:44:29  <TrueBrain> btw .. why the FUCK do groups start with 0?
09:44:35  <andythenorth> because Engineers
09:44:36  <TrueBrain> that is idiotic :D
09:44:40  <TrueBrain> I should stop finding bugs :P
09:45:17  <andythenorth> Pls, don't look into groups
09:45:17  <FLHerne> I guess for consistency, it should be "Company #{COMMA}" too...
09:45:29  <TrueBrain> there are more of those honestly FLHerne
09:45:31  <andythenorth> I have group 8, and then the next group I make will be group 12
09:45:34  <FLHerne> Just merge it
09:45:36  <TrueBrain> if you feel up to it, a PR would be welcome :)
09:45:36  <andythenorth> this is super lolz
09:45:37  <andythenorth> merge it
09:45:46  <TrueBrain> CI is failing, oh-oh ...
09:45:58  <TrueBrain> regression, oops :D
09:46:06  <FLHerne> We need that guy who was trying to make a totally consistent style guide back
09:46:14  <FLHerne> I think I might have upset him :-(
09:46:33  <LordAro> FLHerne: was hardly only you
09:46:33  <TrueBrain> I asked him if he could rebase :)
09:46:35  * FLHerne seems to be good at that
09:46:41  <LordAro> we all disagreed with him quite a lot
09:46:52  <TrueBrain> was about to say .. that thread was ... opinionated :D
09:46:57  <FLHerne> tbf, it's an impossible task
09:47:03  <andythenorth> how could it be opinionated?
09:47:06  <TrueBrain> what he said: there has to be some trust
09:47:07  <andythenorth> I stayed out of it
09:47:15  <TrueBrain> we do the same with translators
09:47:27  <TrueBrain> but if I was around, I would also have joined the disagreements :P
09:47:31  <TrueBrain> so yeah .. easy to say for me :D
09:47:32  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Astonishingly, other people also have opinions ;-)
09:47:39  <LordAro> rigid style guidelines are great for programming languages
09:47:47  <LordAro> not so great for real life languages
09:47:55  <LordAro> especially English
09:47:56  <andythenorth> FLHerne what are these 'other people' you speak of?
09:48:24  * andythenorth narcissism lolz
09:49:18  <TrueBrain> I do not understand CMake yet .. sometimes it starts recompiling everything when I change certain files
09:49:23  <TrueBrain> not always what I intend :)
09:50:31  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8307: Feature: Show group name as part of the default vehicle name.
09:51:06  <TrueBrain> now .. can I approve my own work .. well, I can, as it is not my PR, but .. hmmmm :P
09:51:29  <TrueBrain> <- I mean, it is not that it can be wrong
09:51:32  <TrueBrain> :D
09:52:04  * andythenorth has controversial ideas 
09:52:14  <andythenorth> oh dear
09:54:20  <TrueBrain> I really love that PR .. that would make me use Groups
09:54:33  <TrueBrain> (I absolute hate naming individual trains)
09:54:37  <andythenorth> As if group liveries weren't enough already? :P
09:54:51  <TrueBrain> group liveries?
09:55:16  <andythenorth> sometimes a 30s livestream would be the answer
09:55:27  <andythenorth> at work now, there's so much ad-hoc screensharing
09:55:32  <TrueBrain> or a preview! :P
09:55:35  <andythenorth> it really is much more fluid
09:55:52  <TrueBrain> it is a security nightmare I can tell you :)
09:55:53  <andythenorth> we should just make the game self-cast :P
09:56:01  <TrueBrain> we should do a livestream :)
09:56:24  <TrueBrain> pretty sure we can learn each other about a lot of things
09:56:38  <TrueBrain> "owh, you play this game like THAT?! " :D
09:56:51  <TrueBrain> "you doing WHAT NOW in your GRF?" :P
09:57:51  <andythenorth> I replied in the image-sharing channel
09:57:53  <TrueBrain> demos, that is what we need .. preview + prerecorded actions :)
09:58:06  <andythenorth> tutorial!
09:58:22  <TrueBrain> you can setup colour schemes per group? Cool
09:58:22  <andythenorth> the tank game can record battles, and replay
09:58:42  <TrueBrain> but what is "Group Livery" in this context?
09:58:47  <andythenorth> colour scheme
09:59:05  <andythenorth> words are interchangeable here
09:59:12  <TrueBrain> gotcha
09:59:13  <andythenorth> this is nothing to do with newgrf liveries :P
09:59:23  <andythenorth> which are very confusing
09:59:23  <TrueBrain> which is?
09:59:25  <andythenorth> no
09:59:27  <TrueBrain> okay, nevermind
09:59:30  <TrueBrain> I TAKE BACK THAT QUESTION
09:59:30  <andythenorth> we are being productive
09:59:47  <TrueBrain> I have to admit, I thought "liveries" had to do with cattle etc :P
09:59:57  <andythenorth> oh, like livery stable?
09:59:59  <andythenorth> or liver?
10:00:07  <TrueBrain> no clue why :) But wrong it is :P
10:00:23  <andythenorth> I want to call them colourways
10:00:26  <andythenorth> like shoes have
10:00:39  <TrueBrain> I am happy it is "colour schemes" in the title :)
10:00:49  <TrueBrain> liveries .. somehow I connected it to deliveries
10:00:53  <TrueBrain> well, learn something new :)
10:02:28  <TrueBrain> hmm .. still wondering about that self-approving
10:02:33  <TrueBrain> we used to do that all the time with subversion
10:02:45  <TrueBrain> user send in a patch, dev picked it up, cleaned it, and submitted it
10:03:07  <TrueBrain> I always had this issue at work too .. having someone else ALSO review it, is such a colossal waste of time
10:03:51  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8307: Feature: Show group name as part of the default vehicle name.
10:04:19  <andythenorth> lots of projects did fine with self-approval
10:04:28  <andythenorth> we're not writing kernel code here
10:04:56  <andythenorth> but it requires a lot of trust and judgement
10:06:08  <TrueBrain> andythenorth is not going to like me, but I kinda agree with :D
10:06:24  <TrueBrain> I could never use this window, and now I understand why :D
10:06:46  <andythenorth> no I re-read it at the weekend, I think it might be valid
10:06:55  <andythenorth> I took a break because the wall of text pissed me off
10:07:03  <andythenorth> and being pissed off is usually a bad sign
10:07:14  <andythenorth> it 'just' needs a 'sort by' on the key
10:07:27  <TrueBrain> more options is what the UI needs :D :D
10:07:33  <TrueBrain> it is funny, this is a big-data problem
10:07:37  <TrueBrain> and the world has been solving it
10:07:45  <TrueBrain> like, AWS allows you to click a line
10:07:52  <TrueBrain> and it hightlights throughout the interface what that line is
10:08:00  <TrueBrain> making it really easy to see what that line belongs to
10:08:18  <TrueBrain> (for, we have 30+ services running .. spotting which one is using that large amount of CPU would otherwise be impossible)
10:08:28  <TrueBrain> but .. those kind of interactions might be a bit far-fetches for OpenTTD :D
10:08:28  <andythenorth> focus highlights
10:09:51  <TrueBrain> the patch only, oef
10:09:53  <TrueBrain> that is a lot of code
10:10:37  <andythenorth> trying to distill my objection
10:10:52  <andythenorth> the patch assumes that the correct way to play the game is to pick the highest paying cargo
10:11:07  <andythenorth> instead of finding the highest producing industry, then seeing if the cargos pay well
10:11:21  <andythenorth> this is pretty common in 'scratch my itch' PRs
10:11:25  <TrueBrain> different playstyles, yup
10:11:43  <TrueBrain> I have been watching playthroughs of OpenTTD
10:11:53  <TrueBrain> most people suggest using this graph to start with your first route
10:12:22  <andythenorth> yes
10:12:29  <TrueBrain> but absolutely, sort key is the proper short-term solution
10:12:43  <andythenorth> the feature requests for sorting the industry list by production suggest another cohort exists
10:13:03  <TrueBrain> which is normal for a game :)
10:13:12  <TrueBrain> the reason most games have "advanced" settings etc
10:16:57  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8268: Change: Sort cargo payment rates legend in order of (initial) cost instead of alphabetically
10:18:58  <TrueBrain> I think that sums it up nicely, not? :)
10:19:56  <andythenorth> +1
10:20:59  <andythenorth> I have never seen a UI get worse by adding filter, sort (and sometimes group)
10:21:15  <andythenorth> as long as they're designed and not just added
10:21:32  <TrueBrain> it also fits here, to have a dropdown with sort keys
10:21:35  <TrueBrain> it is just .. a lot of work to add
10:22:06  <andythenorth> a little work scares people? :P
10:22:27  <andythenorth> Iron Horse is like 5k commits
10:22:35  <andythenorth> and that's just trains
10:23:42  <andythenorth> oof I should do some work, making the internet
10:24:11  <TrueBrain> yes, you do that :)
10:24:16  <TrueBrain> I am going to pick another random PR :)
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10:28:37  <TrueBrain> <- I so want to rename that setting to groundhog_year
10:30:45  <andythenorth> 'freeze time' button
10:30:53  <andythenorth> 'stop progression', 'start progression'
10:31:00  <andythenorth> then give GS the option to do it
10:31:15  <andythenorth> "No progression for you until you fulfill my arbitrary level-up goals"
10:32:14  <TrueBrain> haha, evil
10:32:22  <TrueBrain> and that would be a fine follow-up PR :)
10:33:57  * andythenorth looks in PRs
10:34:02  <FLHerne> TrueBrain: I don't think we need a sorting key
10:34:05  <FLHerne> Just merge it
10:34:33  <FLHerne> andythenorth: People choosing an industry don't really care about that graph at all, I think ;-)
10:34:37  <TrueBrain> FLHerne: the code is not in a state it can be accepted :)
10:35:03  <TrueBrain> and a sorting key would solve most of the reasons the code is not acceptable atm :)
10:35:11  <TrueBrain> it is a double-edged sword ;)
10:35:15  <FLHerne> andythenorth: If you care about industry chains and so on, it's not particularly useful
10:35:50  <andythenorth> there is a 3rd cohort
10:35:52  <andythenorth> newgrf authors
10:36:10  <FLHerne> Ok, but who cares about *those*?
10:36:12  <andythenorth> if we make it unnecessarily hard for content authors, we get less content
10:36:28  <andythenorth> and a sort key meets more needs
10:36:37  <FLHerne> How does sorting the list differently hurt content authors?
10:36:56  <andythenorth> because it's much harder to work with
10:37:04  <andythenorth> that's why it was alphabetised
10:37:20  <andythenorth> it wasn't an accident
10:37:25  <FLHerne> 'harder to work with'?
10:37:34  <TrueBrain> <FLHerne> Ok, but who cares about *those*? <- think you forgot a /s or a smiley there :)
10:37:49  <andythenorth> I imply smilies all the time in my head
10:37:55  <andythenorth> it makes for a better internet
10:37:58  <andythenorth> better people evn
10:38:01  <FLHerne> TrueBrain: No, I deliberately omitted one because sarcasm markers defeat the point
10:38:14  <TrueBrain> you would be surprised how poorly sarcasm travels over the internet :D
10:38:17  <andythenorth> I invented a thing once which would project emojis on a bubble above people's heads
10:38:20  <andythenorth> IRL
10:38:36  * andythenorth has automated the cargo payment rates anyway
10:38:45  <andythenorth> because it turns out that the gameplay effect is minimal
10:38:56  <andythenorth> and it's more important to prevent the chart lines overlapping visually
10:39:05  <FLHerne> TrueBrain: If we commit to not using /s, we can just imagine one for all statements we disagree with, and everything will be better
10:39:17  <_dp_> hm, I think I know what 8307 woundn't work well with.... that train racing thing I made
10:39:29  <_dp_> it sets both group name and vehicle name to a player name
10:39:31  <andythenorth> Train Whack Races!
10:39:41  <andythenorth> The Great Train Race!
10:39:44  <andythenorth> Train Off!
10:40:03  <_dp_> and both kinda make sense - group to make it easier to find in the list and vehicle to show in vehicle window:
10:40:34  <FLHerne> _dp_: It doesn't show the group name if there's a custom vehicle name
10:40:41  <andythenorth> where is the PR to add high scores to Train Whack?
10:40:46  <_dp_> FLHerne, ah, ok, nvm then
10:40:50  <andythenorth> we can handle them in an edge lambda thing
10:40:50  <TrueBrain> :D
10:40:54  <TrueBrain> it is even in the commit message :P
10:40:55  <andythenorth> and store them on a queue
10:41:00  <andythenorth> we only need 30 days or so
10:41:05  <TrueBrain> but .. what is this game you made?! :D
10:42:00  <_dp_> TrueBrain, you mean racing thingie? you can check it on citymania test server ;)
10:42:06  <TrueBrain> owh boy ..
10:42:09  <TrueBrain> I might some day :P
10:42:23  <TrueBrain> I am afraid I won't see the light for a few days if I do :D
10:42:37  <_dp_> nah, it's pretty simple right now
10:43:00  <_dp_> needs a good map to make it more interesting but I'm too lazy to make it :p
10:43:55  <TrueBrain> <- so tempted to merge it, as "it just makes it a setting", but there is so much below the surface there :)
10:45:13  <TrueBrain> the code kinda assumes your game runs for 170 years before it loops back
10:45:30  <TrueBrain> after that time, this setting is not going to hurt anyone (as nothing changes, really)
10:45:36  <TrueBrain> before that time .. there are some nasty things that happen
10:46:11  <_dp_> where did 170 years come from? or do you mean if inflation is enabled?
10:46:21  <andythenorth> livestream!
10:46:25  <andythenorth> bleeding edge previews!
10:46:39  <TrueBrain> inflation runs for 170 years in OpenTTD
10:47:36  <_dp_> oh, so does groundhog make it infinite?
10:47:40  <TrueBrain> yup
10:48:11  <_dp_> fun
10:48:15  <TrueBrain> yeah .... no :)
10:48:24  <TrueBrain> most likely not what the intended goal is of a groundhog year :)
10:48:26  <_dp_> remove inflation? :p
10:48:41  <TrueBrain> yeah, but my issue is: do I know all those places that do stuff like this :)
10:48:43  <andythenorth> there are probably as many goals for groundhog year as players
10:48:56  <andythenorth> but the most common seems to be 'keep these trains around for longer'
10:49:02  <andythenorth> if we can do that, gravy
10:49:10  <TrueBrain> yeah, pretty sure nobody expects an infinite inflation ;)
10:49:24  * LordAro looks at the world
10:49:34  <TrueBrain> you live in a groundhog year?
10:49:37  * andythenorth looks at property prices
10:49:37  <TrueBrain> well, yeah, kinda
10:49:38  <TrueBrain> :P
10:49:40  <TrueBrain> fair point LordAro  :D
10:49:42  <andythenorth> and the banking system
10:49:43  <_dp_> TrueBrain, just merge it and fix if someone complains? xD
10:49:51  <andythenorth> bleeding edge
10:49:52  <TrueBrain> yeah, that is too easy
10:50:09  <andythenorth> has anyone tested it in game yet?
10:50:26  <andythenorth> like, does it actually meet a goal, or is it just a candidate prototype
10:50:33  <_dp_> I kinda feel like nobody expects inflation period
10:50:41  <andythenorth> spanish inquisition
10:50:46  <TrueBrain> that is fair, but it is part of the game, so I have to deal with it :)
10:50:49  <TrueBrain> that or remove it :P
10:50:55  <andythenorth> 'Fix: groundhog year; delete inflation'
10:51:12  <TrueBrain> there are the default issues with a patch like this andythenorth , as I tested it, like the finance window overwriting the current year over and over
10:51:15  <_dp_> oh, I want it nice and hard ... why does it always bankrupt in 100 years reeee
10:51:45  <TrueBrain> but otherwise, it meets the goal, yes :)
10:52:13  <TrueBrain> engine aging is the other one frosch123 mentions
10:53:07  <andythenorth> so this would be a setting in settings?
10:53:13  <andythenorth> I should really just pull the patch eh
10:53:13  <TrueBrain> yup
10:53:23  <andythenorth> so a later PR could add a button next to in-game date?
10:53:37  <TrueBrain> a "loop this year button"?
10:53:41  <andythenorth> yes
10:53:44  <TrueBrain> sure, it is a game setting
10:53:45  <andythenorth> like looping a music playlist
10:53:50  <_dp_> no :p
10:53:53  <TrueBrain> well, no
10:53:54  <andythenorth> and that would disable on servers
10:53:58  <TrueBrain> it currently is a game_creation setting
10:54:31  <TrueBrain> owh, yes, that does work
10:54:33  <TrueBrain> name is silly
10:54:33  <TrueBrain> nevermind
10:55:34  <andythenorth> do we have a loop icon anywhere?
10:55:36  * andythenorth looks
10:56:09  <andythenorth> can't see one
10:56:21  <_dp_> groundhog icon :p
10:57:02  <andythenorth> Hog!
10:58:25  <andythenorth>
10:58:36  <andythenorth> the hog is the red blob at the bottom
10:58:49  <andythenorth> I learnt a lot about sprites from my 1980s childhood :P
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11:07:31  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7938: Feature: Setting for a year that repeats forever
11:07:50  <TrueBrain> owh, Eddit doesn't allow me pushing in his branches
11:08:19  <TrueBrain> Eddit? lol
11:10:59  <TrueBrain> @seen Eddi|zuHause
11:11:00  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Eddi|zuHause was last seen in #openttd 18 hours, 54 minutes, and 38 seconds ago: <Eddi|zuHause> that's a case of "this is technically a proper phrase, but it has a meaning you did not intend"
11:11:14  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: would you mind opening up your branch for me to push into? :D
11:11:30  <TrueBrain> (or rebase yourself, but I did the work already :P)
11:13:23  <TrueBrain> (it is the checkbox at the bottom of the list on the right)
11:17:13  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] LordAro approved pull request #39: Add: support client connections over WebSocket / HTTP
11:20:27  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain merged pull request #39: Add: support client connections over WebSocket / HTTP
11:20:41  <TrueBrain> now to wire this into the infra .. euhm ... I had to do something for that I believe ..
11:21:15  <TrueBrain> owh, yes, this was pointing to the NLB .. hmm
11:21:32  <TrueBrain> I need another DNS name :D
11:23:05  <TrueBrain> or I can wire the NLB to the ALB for 443 .. hmm
11:24:20  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8355: Add: support for emscripten (play-OpenTTD-in-the-browser)
11:25:54  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I am going to tell you something about Emscripten you are going to be amazed about.. but first I will have lunch :)
11:27:22  <andythenorth> coffee is lunch, right?
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11:53:18  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8355: Add: support for emscripten (play-OpenTTD-in-the-browser)
11:58:36  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8355: Add: support for emscripten (play-OpenTTD-in-the-browser)
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12:21:23  <TrueBrain> I am going to provision a new version of the NLB, which is always a bit terrifying, as it can put the masterserver and contentservice offline :D
12:21:28  <TrueBrain> we will see how good I was in testing this :D
12:34:32  <TrueBrain> okay .. "it seems to work" :P
12:41:34  <TrueBrain> is that good enough? I like to think so :D
12:54:15  * andythenorth wonders what python will do with -0
12:54:44  <andythenorth> hmm 0
12:54:45  <andythenorth> nvm
13:05:42  <FLHerne> O?
13:05:55  <FLHerne> ISTR it didn't make much/any difference
13:15:07  <andythenorth> it makes a difference when I evaluate -ve numbers in the tech tree
13:15:15  <andythenorth> and I didn't leave room to insert a branch :P
13:15:50  <FLHerne> Oh, right
13:16:12  <FLHerne> I thought you meant the -O 'optimize' command-line flag
13:16:22  <FLHerne> -0 is just 0 in Python, yes
13:16:40  <andythenorth> and in maths
13:17:36  <_dp_> ~0 != 0  :p
13:18:07  <TrueBrain> 10 != 0 either!
13:19:08  <_dp_> btw it's kind of interesting how binary not (~) works in python considering numbers are technically infinite
13:20:02  <FLHerne> andythenorth: But not for floating-point values
13:20:37  <andythenorth> FLHerne :o
13:20:38  <andythenorth> wow
13:20:40  <FLHerne> I think some really old/weird architectures allowed signed integer zeros too
13:20:43  <andythenorth> I just tried that
13:21:29  <andythenorth> what's the sqrt of -0.0? o_O
13:21:31  <FLHerne> But 2's-complement is universal now and only has one possible 0 representation, so you won't get signed integer 0s in anything sane
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13:23:20  <manu> hi
13:23:25  <TrueBrain> hello
13:23:26  <FLHerne> -0.0, apparently
13:35:32  <TrueBrain> YES!!! It works :D
13:35:40  <TrueBrain> WebSocket for content-service is up and running on staging now :D
13:35:44  <TrueBrain> okay, that makes me really happy :)
13:35:59  <TrueBrain> took a bit of fiddling to route it in a correct way through the infra
13:36:01  <TrueBrain> but \o/
13:36:31  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.1.0
13:36:32  <TrueBrain> time to get it on production too :D
13:45:43  <TrueBrain> okay ... with Emscripten, you can now download content from the content-service without issue :D :D :D Okay, that is just cool :)
13:48:35  <andythenorth> this is...big
13:48:53  <andythenorth> next, bananas for unreleased grfs :P
13:49:29  <TrueBrain> well, I can rebrand BaNaNaS if you like .. pretty sure most GRFs consider themself unreleased :P
13:49:31  <TrueBrain> hihi :)
13:51:04  <andythenorth> just do on the fly compilation from my github repo into the wasm client
13:51:07  <andythenorth> 'probably fine'
13:51:26  <TrueBrain> well, you can indeed use the preview to showcase GRFs too
13:51:29  <andythenorth> oh, a lambda edge that compiles the grf on the fly from a commit? o_O
13:51:41  <TrueBrain> you could load a game for example which showcases it
13:54:06  <TrueBrain> funny how google still hasn't updated the wiki properly :P
13:55:25  <milek7>
13:55:28  <milek7> it works :)
13:55:35  <milek7> now, server discovery needs to be fixed :P
13:56:52  <TrueBrain> yeah ... so far I have: add SSL to the gameserver, add WebSocket server to the gameserver, extend master-server protocol to indicate if you also support WebSocket, add code for updater to validate WebSocket is reachable too, update master-server protocol discovery packet to request WebSocket only servers ... and THEN we can add it to the client :)
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14:07:05  <milek7> stretch needs to be removed from release builds, it was broken by c++17 changes
14:07:30  <TrueBrain> 16.04 does work?
14:09:04  <TrueBrain> my CDK is still deploying the infra ... taking forever ...
14:12:22  <milek7> it looks 16.04 have gcc5, so it won't work
14:12:47  <TrueBrain> I will do a full run in a bit, see what breaks :)
14:13:49  <TrueBrain> but first the deployment has to finish .... ugh ....
14:14:45  <milek7> seems my franken-1.10.3 build works :D
14:16:36  <TrueBrain> <- let's see what breaks :)
14:17:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/grfcodec] glx22 commented on pull request #9: Fix various issues with MinGW build
14:17:38  <glx> and by looking at this PR I noticed missing stuff in cmake
14:17:44  <TrueBrain> :D
14:17:52  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
14:17:56  <glx> like fmemopen detection
14:18:26  <glx> need to start the VM to check
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14:25:46  <TrueBrain> Stretch and 16.04 fail, the rest succeed
14:25:52  <TrueBrain> so .. that is an easy fix :)
14:26:02  <LordAro> :(
14:26:21  <TrueBrain> sorry LordAro  ... I tried to postpone it till after 1.11
14:26:23  <TrueBrain> but no dice
14:26:31  <TrueBrain> we can use backport gcc if you really like :)
14:26:31  <glx> are they still officially supported
14:27:10  <LordAro> stretch definitely has gcc6.3
14:27:14  <LordAro> is that too old?
14:27:18  <milek7> yes
14:27:22  <TrueBrain>
14:27:25  <milek7> <optional> is missing
14:27:41  <TrueBrain> CMake flat-out refuses :)
14:27:47  <planetmaker> Ubuntu 16.04 LTS	release Apr 2016	EOL Apr 2021
14:27:51  <TrueBrain> owh, stretch no longer has backport :(
14:27:57  <milek7>
14:29:39  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8371: Add: [Actions] release workflow for both releases and nightlies
14:30:17  <LordAro> hmm, clang 3.8 too
14:30:40  <TrueBrain> sorry LordAro :(
14:30:43  <LordAro> could build newer gcc? :p
14:30:50  <TrueBrain> we accept PRs :) :D
14:31:24  <TrueBrain> I like that even Debian no longer lists their stretch backports :P
14:31:33  <TrueBrain> guess they try to say something there :D
14:31:34  <LordAro> yes it does?
14:31:42  <LordAro>
14:31:45  <LordAro> e.g.
14:31:54  <TrueBrain> <- no backports in the top right
14:32:12  <LordAro> it's never done that there?
14:32:25  <TrueBrain> owh fuck yes :)
14:32:30  <TrueBrain>
14:32:33  <TrueBrain> just a random example :)
14:32:49  <LordAro> oh, probably because there aren't any gcc backports
14:32:53  <LordAro> because core package and all that
14:33:08  <TrueBrain> laaammmeeee
14:33:16  <LordAro> clang 5 might work :p
14:33:32  <TrueBrain> you are spending time on a 0.00001% of our userbase :D
14:33:44  <TrueBrain> pretty sure that 1 user survives fine compile it himself :D
14:34:11  <LordAro> eh, we'd need to use libc++ anyway
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14:34:30  <TrueBrain> we can skip it with OpenTTD for stretch
14:34:36  <TrueBrain> we need a format for that .....
14:34:43  <TrueBrain> snap? AppImage? flatpack? :D :P
14:34:44  <TrueBrain> trolls
14:34:46  <TrueBrain> sorry :)
14:34:50  <TrueBrain> skip = ship
14:35:57  <TrueBrain> this is something nielsm knows: is all of freepats needed to have music ingame? Or does it really only need 1 or 2 files? I ask, because AppImages and Snaps are HUGE just because of freepats :P
14:36:18  <TrueBrain> doesn't feel .. balanced :D
14:36:35  <LordAro> midi is the music equivalent of bmp, aiui
14:36:41  <LordAro> isn't very compressed
14:36:52  <TrueBrain> milek7: which reminds me, adding sound with emscripten is a bit easier now, as freepats doesn't have to be embedded; it can, like OpenGFX, just be downloaded once
14:37:36  <TrueBrain> sound/music, what-ever :P
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14:39:00  <TrueBrain> LordAro: lol, it is as old, so yeah :P
14:43:51  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8355: Add: support for emscripten (play-OpenTTD-in-the-browser)
14:45:04  <TrueBrain> \o/ \o/ \o/
14:45:24  <nielsm> TrueBrain, I'm sure you could do with a much simpler patchset for it
14:45:36  <nielsm> I can't remember which patches the music actually uses
14:46:06  <TrueBrain> so something to dive into :) Gotcha :)
14:46:12  <TrueBrain> I really know nothing about midi :P Except that it is old
14:46:43  <nielsm> but also, if you begin diving into all the various free music packs, you lose all ways of making assumptions
14:46:47  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8355: Add: support for emscripten (play-OpenTTD-in-the-browser)
14:47:04  <TrueBrain> and you never return? :D
14:47:08  <milek7> I used old freepats from 2006, 33MiB, but that had some samples missing
14:47:25  <TrueBrain> it is just annoying, that a game of 10MB is 40+ with sound :)
14:47:33  <nielsm> MIDI is just a sequence of instructions to a synthesizer, which notes to play and stop playing, and controllers to adjust, at which times, and how it sounds depends on the patchset and synth technology used
14:47:39  <TrueBrain> but I guess it comes back to: make them oggs :P
14:48:05  <TrueBrain> so one could argue no 2 people will have the same experience
14:48:09  <nielsm> like, the Roland SC-55 which the original TT soundtrack was composed for primarily has a pretty small sample bank actually
14:48:11  <TrueBrain> depending on their OS, driver, etc
14:48:38  <nielsm> yes a sampled music player would be simpler to handle
14:48:53  <nielsm> or just nothing and tell players to bring their own music
14:49:26  <TrueBrain> can our music play vorbis or what-ever?
14:49:44  <nielsm> not as-is
14:49:55  <nielsm> there is some framework for playing sampled music
14:50:03  <nielsm> but the music playing code still all assumed MIDI
14:50:14  <TrueBrain> k; so it needs work :)
14:50:16  <TrueBrain> tnx!
14:50:31  <LordAro> just put a music player on in the background
14:50:34  <LordAro> :p
14:50:43  <nielsm> just the audio mixer has a way to mix in a music stream along the sound effects, that's used for one of the midi drivers
14:50:51  <TrueBrain> a game should have background music, that is just what all games do :)
14:50:56  <nielsm> yeah I'd suggest just using an HTML5 <audio> player
14:51:07  <TrueBrain> haha, not a bad idea too :D
14:51:13  <TrueBrain> okay, so Sentry just gave me a bananas-server entry
14:51:20  <TrueBrain> which made me go like: owh boy, what did I fuck up with Websocket
14:51:25  <TrueBrain> but it is a totally different bug
14:51:31  <TrueBrain> like .. could have happened months ago too :D
14:51:31  <LordAro> \o/
14:52:02  <milek7> that one had ogg music
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14:52:42  <TrueBrain> okay ..... now I am going to label something "preview" .... and I hope it works
14:52:44  <TrueBrain> it did with testing
14:52:50  <TrueBrain> but ... nothing like live-shit
14:53:14  <TrueBrain> fingers crossed
14:53:31  <TrueBrain> shit, it does need to be rebased before it works ofc :D Haha
14:54:24  <LordAro> clang5 & libc++ would work for c++17, incidentally
14:54:24  <milek7> oh, it does even have cloudsaves :P
14:54:32  <LordAro> but, bit of a pain to set up, i suppose
14:56:15  <Samu> I can't build OpenTTD with visual studio, missing openttd.manifest file?
14:57:13  <glx> that's weird
14:57:42  <glx> nothing changed in this area
14:58:24  <TrueBrain> btw, tnx a bunch LordAro for review :) Really appreciated :D
14:58:57  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders
14:59:01  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain dismissed a review for pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders
14:59:35  <TrueBrain> lets try it out on an already approved but not merged PR :D
15:00:36  <milek7> there is midi music available on bananas
15:00:50  <milek7> it would need to be somehow filtered out when using sampled music
15:01:19  <TrueBrain> I think that is the easier part to solve ... supporting sampled music is the hard part :D
15:02:25  <milek7> that's easy, it just need libsndfile (or something) and plug it into existing mixer
15:03:36  <TrueBrain> don't forget about support in a base-music, etc :)
15:03:50  <TrueBrain> but I think it wouldn't hurt if we move away from MIDI :D
15:11:05  <TrueBrain> okay, the screenshots of 7028 makes my OCD go BBBBBRRRRRRR
15:11:09  <TrueBrain> I wonder if that is fixed :D
15:12:26  <TrueBrain> preview works \o/
15:12:29  <TrueBrain> owh, this is awesome :D
15:13:06  <andythenorth> those overlapping sprites
15:13:07  <andythenorth> oof
15:13:12  <andythenorth> probably a valid feature, but oof
15:14:06  <TrueBrain> no, the order of "sort" and "group"
15:14:09  <TrueBrain> sometimes it is sort/group
15:14:12  <TrueBrain> othertimes group/sort
15:14:19  <TrueBrain> how do you make shared orders again? :D
15:14:47  <TrueBrain> found it!
15:15:34  <andythenorth> just press ctrl for everything
15:15:36  <andythenorth> all the time
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15:22:07  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders
15:23:15  <TrueBrain> Docks have Sort -> Group, Hangers Group -> Sort
15:23:18  <TrueBrain> no, this is just wrong :P
15:24:59  <TrueBrain> can't believe LordAro didn't spot that :P :D <3
15:25:42  <LordAro> D:
15:26:09  <TrueBrain> windows do get crowded with such additions
15:26:17  <TrueBrain> I remember the game as simple windows with little stuff around it :P
15:26:25  <TrueBrain> now ... :D But most are useful, so it is okay :)
15:27:40  <andythenorth> it's survivable
15:27:44  <andythenorth> it's not pretty, but it works
15:30:43  <LordAro> TrueBrain: you haven't PR'd the nginx cache change yet
15:30:49  <LordAro> unless i missed it
15:31:29  <Samu> i found the openttd.manifest file, had to redownload it
15:31:47  <Samu> unsure how it got deleted on its own
15:32:18  <TrueBrain> LordAro: it was never a PR :)
15:32:29  <LordAro> aha
15:32:38  <TrueBrain>
15:35:55  <LordAro> :+1:
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15:38:37  <TrueBrain> sorry LordAro , I should have PR'd it
15:38:42  <TrueBrain> but it was in the middle of other CDK stuff
15:38:49  <TrueBrain> which nobody wants to review :D Bad habbit :P
15:39:28  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8234: Trees GUI improvements
15:39:53  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8234: Trees GUI improvements
15:41:28  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/grfcodec] glx22 dismissed a review for pull request #10: Switch to CMake
15:41:31  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/grfcodec] glx22 updated pull request #10: Switch to CMake
15:47:07  <Samu> I can build again! but the lzma, png and such are missing
15:47:24  <Samu> or were
15:48:48  <Samu> x64-Debug (Default) doesn't detect those libraries on its own
15:49:14  <LordAro> sounds like you need to start from scratch
15:50:04  <glx> they are provided by vcpkg, but you need to set VCPKG_TARGET_TRIPLET in cmake configuration
15:50:10  <Samu> I had to create a x64-Debug configuration and change the VCPKG_TARGET_TRIPLET from x64-windows to x64-windows-static
15:50:30  <glx> yes that's the solution
15:50:43  <glx> by default in doesn't use static version
15:50:44  <LordAro> is the wiki page up to date? :p
15:50:54  <LordAro> or whatever document is in docs/
15:51:37  <glx> not detailled, but I think there's a mention about VCPKG_TARGET_TRIPLET
15:51:54  <TrueBrain> you expect us to maintain the docs too? Owh boy .. :D
15:52:59  <orudge> [15:03:52] <TrueBrain> but I think it wouldn't hurt if we move away from MIDI :D <-- yes, once we start getting multi-megabyte Ogg Opus music base sets on BaNaNaS, I'm sure you'll be delighted ;)
15:53:29  <orudge> I've still got my various ancient music patches
15:53:34  <orudge> Could be greatly simplified these days I suspect
15:54:02  <TrueBrain> we can always restrict upload-size :P
15:54:31  <orudge> We could just stream online radio stations in the background
15:54:37  <orudge> and run a TT Music 24/7 station
15:55:32  <Samu> I wanted to talk about this PR, now merged
15:55:57  <Samu> seems now that AIs also start with the setting enabled
15:56:14  <Samu> that can be trouble for some AIs :(
15:56:43  <TrueBrain> orudge: haha, YES!
15:57:50  <Samu> will have to test it out
15:58:22  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/grfcodec] glx22 approved pull request #9: Fix various issues with MinGW build
16:00:22  <Samu> on the bright side, some of the AIs may benefit from it
16:00:38  <glx> Samu: yes it's on when AI start, as seen in regression test result update
16:00:38  <Samu> hmm i expect some won't, though
16:00:42  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8234: Trees GUI improvements
16:01:00  <Samu> for example, I think Convoy will benefit from it
16:01:09  <glx> but AIs are supposed to manage their settings
16:01:18  <TrueBrain> ^^ :)
16:01:30  <TrueBrain> owh, I love the previews ...
16:01:33  <TrueBrain> it makes testing easier :D
16:02:04  <TrueBrain> sorry, drooling over my own feature, I know :)
16:02:17  <TrueBrain> but just look at it .. you can now see if you like #8324 yourself in 2 seconds :D
16:02:38  <andythenorth> when I have finished this html, I am going to look
16:02:41  <andythenorth> and be impressed
16:03:32  <LordAro> TrueBrain: hmm
16:03:38  <LordAro> with normal you can click & drag
16:03:42  <LordAro> with grove & forest you cannot
16:03:52  <TrueBrain> tooltip says you should be able :o
16:03:53  <TrueBrain> BUG
16:03:55  <LordAro> TrueBrain: but yes \o/
16:05:31  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8234: Trees GUI improvements
16:05:47  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain requested changes for pull request #8234: Trees GUI improvements
16:06:24  <glx> preview is a nice feature :)
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16:06:47  <LordAro> i'd suggest that the deployment message is unclear
16:06:51  <LordAro> but that's more of a GH ui issue
16:07:07  <TrueBrain> it is not perfect, no :)
16:07:13  <TrueBrain> but see how easily you found a bug :D
16:07:33  <LordAro> :D
16:07:52  <TrueBrain> I like that you point to a place that might be the issue .. let me see if that fixes it
16:11:12  <Samu> if I want a portable build of openttd.exe where do I look for
16:11:34  <Samu> D:\OpenTTD\OpenTTD GitHub\OpenTTD\out\build\x64-Release i find the .exe here but it's filled with temporary cmake stuff
16:11:58  <Samu> the old way was cleaner, it would go into a bin folder
16:12:16  <TrueBrain> LordAro: OnPlaceDrag is not called :(
16:12:43  <glx> Samu: you can install it
16:12:45  <LordAro> :/
16:13:08  <glx> Samu: it will be in out/install/x64-Release
16:13:16  <TrueBrain> only seems to work in combination with VpStartPlacingSize :P
16:14:19  <Samu> ah! nice, thanks glx
16:14:31  <Samu> seems to be what I was looking for
16:17:06  <milek7> TrueBrain: it seems to redownload opengfx for each PR separately?
16:17:51  <TrueBrain> milek7: it does? Let me check ..
16:18:07  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8234: Trees GUI improvements
16:18:18  <TrueBrain> it shouldn't; it is stored in
16:19:02  <milek7> ah, maybe not
16:19:49  <milek7> it just confused me
16:20:03  <TrueBrain> pfew .. was afraid it worked in some weird way :D
16:20:55  <milek7> progress could be displayed in MiB instead of bytes :P
16:20:56  <TrueBrain> LordAro: seems the best we can do that you can drag a line, as the tooltip suggests
16:21:04  <TrueBrain> milek7: PRs are welcome! :D
16:23:25  <LordAro> TrueBrain: i can't drag a line at all..?
16:23:30  <TrueBrain> no, I can enable that, ish
16:23:33  <TrueBrain> is what I meant, sorry :)
16:23:39  <LordAro> h, right
16:23:41  <LordAro> ah*
16:23:47  <TrueBrain> but .. this is above my paygrade currently
16:23:50  <TrueBrain> I can get the dragging to work
16:23:55  <TrueBrain> but I have no clue how to walk from start_tile to end_tile :D
16:26:10  <andythenorth> Samu !
16:26:13  <andythenorth> is back :)
16:26:46  <Samu> yes, got some activity on my PRs
16:58:44  <FLHerne> andythenorth: How frequently do you make various kinds of small nml-source update? pixels-only vs property-values-only vs larger source changes?
16:58:54  <FLHerne> Offsets?
16:59:09  <supermop_Home> yay trees
16:59:21  <andythenorth> FLHerne 'often'
16:59:39  <andythenorth> pixels only is already covered by rendering to nfo
16:59:42  <andythenorth> and using grfcodec
17:00:33  <FLHerne> Well, relative to each other
17:00:37  <FLHerne> I forgot about that hack
17:03:34  <andythenorth> pixels and property changes will be about 80% of all compiles
17:04:10  <FLHerne> hm
17:04:31  * FLHerne plays with caching ideas
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17:07:45  <supermop_Home> this looks possibly promising:
17:08:43  <supermop_Home> I don't get how you make it mesh with other routes
17:09:58  <supermop_Home> i wonder for full load issue, if some kind of 'lay up' order would be nice
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17:11:08  <supermop_Home> like something to indicate to the autoseparation "try to wait approximately as long as the separation time"
17:11:47  <supermop_Home> seems easier than some kind of conditional order that explicitly says wait until the following train arrives and starts loading
17:12:07  <_dp_> it's suspiciously specific though, i wonder how well it works with anything more complex than just 1) full load 2) unload and leave empty
17:12:29  <supermop_Home> this is what i generally try to do with my timetables anyway
17:14:42  <supermop_Home> like, route takes 60 days and i need a train every 10 days... so i buy 7 trains and try to have the waiting time at the 'load' station, or end of line be 10 days
17:15:41  <supermop_Home> if i have the wiggle room ill make the layup time 12 days, so that the departing train waits til the following one has arrived and started loading
17:16:13  <supermop_Home> this helps with keeping the station junction clear and simple
17:17:17  <supermop_Home> _dp_ i don't know that it would work for complex cases, as it seems by design to simplify tedious but not overly complex situations
17:18:54  <supermop_Home> it also sounds like it already tries to maintain the separation by setting a certain station to wait longer at as a buffer? if you could just specify which station(s) you want that buffer to be, you might not need Full Load order in many cases
17:29:55  <andythenorth> I would say it's orthogonal to full load
17:30:08  <andythenorth> and should be disabled if full load orders are present
17:30:20  <andythenorth> we don't have enough modality in orders/timetables
17:30:24  <andythenorth> it's confusing
17:45:54  <_dp_> hm, found a funny bug... when you build tunnel it leaves miscolored pixel:
17:46:08  <_dp_> sometimes it's red (from cost message I assume)
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17:51:32  <LordAro> ooh, nice
17:51:36  <LordAro> bug in ogfx, perhaps?
17:51:43  <LordAro> (transparent pixel, etc)
17:57:50  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
17:57:51  <DorpsGek>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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18:13:49  <andythenorth> so I could learn to debug and profile newgrf vehicle sprite performance
18:13:51  <andythenorth> yeah right :)
18:13:58  <andythenorth> maybe jgr fixed that already though
18:14:19  <_dp_> I just realized you can have 2 stations with the same name in the same spot (sign)...
18:14:46  <_dp_>
18:15:51  <andythenorth> we could rewrite vehicle grf
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18:16:03  <andythenorth> so that all possible sprite results are pre-computed
18:16:09  <andythenorth> but NFI if it's actually a thing
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18:18:17  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] twpol updated pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders
18:19:13  *** manu1511 has quit IRC
18:20:33  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] twpol commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders
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18:22:21  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders
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18:24:08  <glx>  <LordAro> (transparent pixel, etc) <-- just checked quickly, it's indeed an opengfx bug
18:24:32  <LordAro> :)
18:25:01  <glx> and all climates/rail type seems affectd
18:25:33  <LordAro> has it been unnoticed this long?
18:28:14  *** arikover` has joined #openttd
18:29:13  <_dp_> it's even funnier that I noticed it on 4k
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18:36:01  <andythenorth> shall we merge some things! :)
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18:37:44  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders
18:41:23  <TrueBrain> PR mostly looks okay; needs some minor coding style fixes, but nothing too bad :) I like easy PRs :)
18:41:57  <_dp_> next level - allow pr preview to save games and link them to pr as test cases
18:43:27  <_dp_> also mouse moves very slow in browser :(
18:49:33  <TrueBrain> mouse moves fine here?
18:49:38  <TrueBrain> and yeah, demo+savegame, would be great :D
18:50:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain requested changes for pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders
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19:05:58  <_dp_> is MAX_MAX_LOAN an acceptable constant name?
19:06:33  <TrueBrain> no
19:06:36  <TrueBrain> :D
19:06:40  <TrueBrain> well, honestly, it is :P
19:06:54  <TrueBrain> MAX_LOAN_LIMIT ? Dunno :)
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19:07:26  <_dp_> cool, now to figure out wtf should its value be xD
19:07:43  <TrueBrain> a setting!
19:08:11  <_dp_> well, it's literally the max for max_loan variable, naming it differently would be quite confusing imo
19:10:15  <_dp_> can we just remove inflation, it eats 32 bits for no good reason :p
19:12:29  <TrueBrain> freeform_edges ... how to enable that ... I cannot find it in the code, hilarious :D
19:12:44  <TrueBrain> ah, in TGP only
19:14:16  <_dp_> well, you can probably set it via console
19:15:49  <_dp_> "170 years of 4% inflation result in a inflation of about 822, so 10 bits are actually enough"
19:16:01  <_dp_> nice comment before constant of type uint64 :/
19:17:32  <_dp_> 10 bits are enough so let's set max_inflation to 2**31 in 64 bit var
19:18:16  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain requested changes for pull request #7883: Fix: Ensure a minimum gap of water upon generating terrain with original generator
19:18:38  <_dp_> makes for a wonderful minigame "guess when this shit's gonna overflow" :p
19:19:41  <TrueBrain> hmm, no, code suggests freeform_edges can be on with original generator too
19:19:51  <TrueBrain> grepping the code for that is really not useful :D
19:28:49  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7883: Fix: Ensure a minimum gap of water upon generating terrain with original generator
19:29:19  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 opened pull request #8382: Fix: [NewGRF] Action 7/9 conditions 0x0B to 0x12 failed, if 'param' was 0x85 or 0x88.
19:30:35  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #7823: Fix c02ef3e456: Special case of Var 0x88 was not handled for NRT Acti…
19:30:38  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 closed pull request #7823: Fix c02ef3e456: Special case of Var 0x88 was not handled for NRT Acti…
19:31:14  <frosch123> do they get a cookie for most hex numbers in a commit message?
19:31:27  <frosch123> *I
19:31:31  <TrueBrain> well, you won, so yeah ... :P
19:32:09  <frosch123> hmm, how do i test it
19:33:45  <frosch123> firs still disables with pbi loaded, so i guess it is fine
19:35:15  <andythenorth> lol
19:35:25  <andythenorth> hard-coded disable all FIRS? o_O
19:35:27  <andythenorth> improved game
19:35:36  * andythenorth proposes that PR
19:36:01  <frosch123> save ottd, disable more grfs?
19:38:57  <TrueBrain> ah, only x=0 and y=0 is VOID in freeform_edges
19:38:59  <TrueBrain> found it :D
19:41:10  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain dismissed a review for pull request #7883: Fix: Ensure a minimum gap of water upon generating terrain with original generator
19:41:13  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7883: Fix: Ensure a minimum gap of water upon generating terrain with original generator
19:41:58  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7883: Fix: Ensure a minimum gap of water upon generating terrain with original generator
19:42:39  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #7883: Fix: Ensure a minimum gap of water upon generating terrain with original generator
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19:43:49  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #7883: Fix: Ensure a minimum gap of water upon generating terrain with original generator
19:45:44  <frosch123> TrueBrain: you changes the < to a <=?
19:46:01  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7883: Fix: Ensure a minimum gap of water upon generating terrain with original generator
19:46:12  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- is this obsolete files?
19:46:18  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I am pretty sure I am capable of doing so; but why you ask? :D
19:46:37  <TrueBrain> owh, sorry, I read: can you
19:46:38  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: yes
19:46:40  <TrueBrain> ugh, I should read :P
19:47:03  <frosch123> maybe i am tried, but that PR is really difficult to read for me :)
19:47:09  <Eddi|zuHause> is there git magic to delete all unversioned files?
19:47:13  <TrueBrain> it is also really difficult to read the code frosch123 :)
19:47:15  <LordAro> git clean -fxd
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19:47:30  <TrueBrain> but, with freeform_edges on, x=0 and y=0 are VOID tiles
19:47:40  <TrueBrain> for generation, it looks best if there is a border of water around the map
19:47:44  <frosch123> i redact my comment
19:47:45  <TrueBrain> so x=1 and y=1 should be water
19:47:52  <TrueBrain> no, I want to know if I am right :D
19:47:57  <frosch123> i though the PR would change behavior with non-freeform
19:48:15  <TrueBrain> ah, no, it is only during generation of the original generator
19:48:34  <TrueBrain> but I stared at this for 30 minutes now ... it is hard :(
19:48:40  <TrueBrain> I will add comment now :D
19:49:06  <frosch123> non-freeform => north border must be flat water => corners "x/y <= 1" must be at height 0
19:49:19  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: so from reading the description, i don't want -x
19:49:26  <TrueBrain> frosch123: yes
19:49:31  <frosch123> freeform => north border must till be flat water for original mapgen => corners "x/y <= 2" must be at height 0
19:49:32  <frosch123> right?
19:49:35  <TrueBrain> yes
19:49:39  <frosch123> should be fine then
19:49:41  <TrueBrain> \o/
19:49:43  <TrueBrain> thank you :)
19:49:51  <TrueBrain> math hard
19:50:07  <TrueBrain> about your patch .... "it looks fine"?
19:50:11  <TrueBrain> "I assume you tested it"? :D
19:50:42  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: potentially, i always only remember that
19:50:47  <LordAro> TrueBrain: there's a reason i never merged it :p
19:51:24  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I cannot blame you :)
19:53:58  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i added NOT_REACHED to unwanted codepaths, and could not trigger them
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19:54:40  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8382: Fix: [NewGRF] Action 7/9 conditions 0x0B to 0x12 failed, if 'param' was 0x85 or 0x88.
19:54:46  <TrueBrain> these really are YOLO approvals
19:54:50  <TrueBrain> :P
19:55:10  <TrueBrain> I find it extremely weird that 85 is nowhere in that code snippet
19:55:12  <frosch123> lol, no
19:55:15  <TrueBrain> but I am pretty sure I do not want to ask :D
19:55:31  <frosch123> TrueBrain: it's in a comment, i added
19:55:44  <TrueBrain> that is why I don't want to ask :P
19:56:42  <frosch123> assembly is not structured programming :)
19:58:04  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain dismissed a review for pull request #7883: Fix: for original terrain generator, keep a single gap of water at the borders
19:58:07  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7883: Fix: for original terrain generator, keep a single gap of water at the borders
19:58:08  <TrueBrain> fine, some comments in the commit message about what is going on .. helps the next person :P
19:58:20  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #7883: Fix: for original terrain generator, keep a single gap of water at the borders
19:58:35  <TrueBrain> right, 3 ready for merge ... can we get it down to 60 today ..
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20:00:41  <TrueBrain> frosch123: about the groundhog year, how big of a boom is it if we do not fix stuff like inflation in this PR?
20:02:35  <Eddi|zuHause> easy fix: inflation stops 1 year before the groundhog year. if groundhog year is lowered, inflation is not apllied backwards
20:02:55  <TrueBrain> there are many places that require such attention before 2090
20:03:03  <TrueBrain> well, I wrote in the ticket what my concern was :D
20:03:12  <TrueBrain> I just fail to estimate the impact
20:03:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i looked at the PR, but my intuition tells me: do this properly
20:03:54  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i consider it important that a feature has an intention. that PR adds something without stating the intention, so everyone expects something else from it.
20:04:07  <frosch123> you can either have the discussion before merge, or after merge
20:04:38  <frosch123> the PR does exactly what it says, but in a completely unhelpful manner for any player
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20:05:10  <Eddi|zuHause> i think the intention was "daylength is too complicated, let's do this instead", which is probably a bad reason to do it
20:05:42  <frosch123> TrueBrain: so, i vote for reject. unlikely that the author supports the patch :)
20:07:05  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7938: Feature: Setting for a year that repeats forever
20:07:08  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #7938: Feature: Setting for a year that repeats forever
20:07:16  <TrueBrain> if even the author says: bad reason, yeah .... I am not going to keep it open :)
20:07:18  <TrueBrain> cheers both :)
20:08:25  <TrueBrain> 64 bottles of beer on the wall, 64 bottle of beer ...
20:08:26  <TrueBrain> :)
20:09:06  <TrueBrain> I did like the simplicity of that solution btw :) Just too bad OpenTTD has many .... hardwired assumptions :P
20:09:12  <TrueBrain> hardcoded :)
20:11:26  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7895: Savegame regression testing
20:12:17  <andythenorth> so rejected that way to do it, right?
20:12:22  <andythenorth> not the idea in principle?
20:13:22  <TrueBrain> we know there will be fallout, so better talk it over before, not after, yes :)
20:13:52  <TrueBrain> which is code for: someone needs to play with it, report the findings, and we need to address them ;)
20:14:06  <TrueBrain> I also wonder how NewGRFs react on the year staying the same for this long, for example
20:14:24  <TrueBrain> and answers don't have to be perfect, but currently we had "euuuuhhhh" as only answer ;)
20:14:27  <andythenorth> it's very pleasing to see PRs go away
20:14:45  <andythenorth> failed candidates doesn't mean there'll never be a good way to do it
20:14:56  <TrueBrain> by no means it is a rejection of the idea
20:15:37  <TrueBrain> funny enough, personally I prefer groundhog-year over a concept like daylength; but that is just 1 opinion :)
20:15:44  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone updated pull request #8304: Feature: Show the cargoes the vehicles can carry in the list window.
20:15:51  <glx> yeah the idea is nice, but there's so many edgecase to check
20:16:51  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i'm not sure there's many newgrf troubles. maybe industry newgrfs who overuse storage for weird stuff
20:17:18  <Eddi|zuHause> but those would be the same newgrfs that would have trouble with daylength
20:17:21  <TrueBrain> well, if you are up for it, it could use some testing and reporting back what broke and what worked :)
20:17:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. ECS
20:17:35  <TrueBrain> owh, absolutely; and it doesn't have to be a problem
20:17:37  <TrueBrain> but we need to be informed :)
20:18:08  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8307: Feature: Show group name as part of the default vehicle name.
20:18:49  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8304: Feature: Show the cargoes the vehicles can carry in the list window.
20:19:46  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8304: Feature: Show the cargoes the vehicles can carry in the list window.
20:20:43  <TrueBrain> do we need a cargos vs cargoes discussion?
20:21:35  <TrueBrain> we have 1 cargos vs 8 cargoes
20:21:49  <TrueBrain> sorry, 11 cargoes
20:22:36  <FLHerne> cargos
20:22:40  <frosch123> pretty sure rb made a cargo/cargoes spelling commit before
20:23:08  <frosch123> 3d88c74389ec978bb198415816364898963bb979
20:23:11  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8304: Feature: Show the cargoes the vehicles can carry in the list window.
20:23:30  <TrueBrain> a new one sneaked in
20:23:55  <frosch123> so the consensus was "cargoes". i prefer keeping it
20:24:21  <TrueBrain> if it is 11 vs 1, the 1 is losing :)
20:24:31  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8383: Fix: a cargos sneaked in; should be cargoes for consistency
20:24:31  <TrueBrain> and there he goes!
20:25:20  <andythenorth> I am +1 to the groundhog, and would test it
20:25:49  <andythenorth> my current play style involves setting the year back 5 years occasionally anyway
20:25:55  <andythenorth> poor-man's daylength
20:25:58  <TrueBrain> :D
20:26:33  <andythenorth> newgrfs that might break need to be updated
20:26:34  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #7938: Feature: Setting for a year that repeats forever
20:26:41  <andythenorth> newgrfs are for christmas, not for life
20:26:49  <frosch123> andythenorth: please make sure to also test with other settings, like "vehicles-never-expire=off" :)
20:27:15  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #8383: Fix: a cargos sneaked in; should be cargoes for consistency
20:27:44  <andythenorth> frosch123 there's another way to play? :P
20:28:25  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone updated pull request #8304: Feature: Show the cargoes the vehicles can carry in the list window.
20:28:48  <frosch123> andythenorth: ok, i'll reword. when a pr needs testing, the answer is not "works for me", but "x works, y fails, z untested"
20:29:03  <TrueBrain> ^^ :)
20:29:18  <TrueBrain> I am tempted to open a Discussion for this on GitHub, just to see how that goes .. not sure that is the right form for it
20:30:56  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone commented on pull request #8304: Feature: Show the cargoes the vehicles can carry in the list window.
20:31:09  <frosch123> try it :) but discussions looked pretty much the same as issues, and issues become unreadable with > 5 comments, so surprise me :p
20:31:27  <TrueBrain> yeah, I don't know either, if and how they work out
20:31:29  <TrueBrain> so sure, lets try it
20:31:48  <frosch123> want to tweet about it?
20:32:06  <frosch123> all experienced players i knew, no longer play :p
20:32:30  <andythenorth> at work we have a 'how to test' rule for PRs
20:32:46  <andythenorth> because we have separate QA roles
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20:35:29  <frosch123> what a weird feature... no idea what 8304 is useful for
20:35:37  <TrueBrain>
20:35:46  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone commented on pull request #8304: Feature: Show the cargoes the vehicles can carry in the list window.
20:36:07  <TrueBrain> frosch123: it is pretty much okay in my opinion. Clearly someone has an itch, and it seems more than one person :)
20:37:29  <frosch123> TrueBrain: well, it's again a PR that adds something without stating the intention. i guess for gui stuff it is okay to say "you can see the intention form the screenshot". but i can't :)
20:37:48  <andythenorth> I couldn't figure out how 8304 interacts with group name
20:37:56  <frosch123> my first thought was "what does this do with refit orders". the second was "maybe they do not know about vehicle cloning and forget to refit"
20:38:03  <andythenorth> it occupies the same screen space as group name
20:38:06  <andythenorth> I didn't pull it though
20:38:15  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I really do like the idea of starting to ask the intention more clear for each PR :)
20:38:19  <TrueBrain> instead of having assumption :)
20:38:23  <TrueBrain> we can fix that in the template etc :D
20:38:37  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: it is building a preview as we speak :)
20:38:43  <andythenorth> you see
20:38:44  <FLHerne> Yeah, I find it 8304 confusing too
20:38:46  <andythenorth> that is clever
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20:39:22  <FLHerne> It doesn't really make sense in case of refitting
20:39:34  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8383: Fix: a cargos sneaked in; should be cargoes for consistency
20:39:45  <FLHerne> And in general, all cases I'd imagine using it for are better solved with groups
20:40:01  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7938: Feature: Setting for a year that repeats forever
20:40:08  <_dp_> TrueBrain, can you list all know issues in 8304 discussion? like inflation, company finances, what else?
20:40:29  <TrueBrain> 8384 you mean, and no. I rather have someone takes a real look at it, and report them :)
20:40:30  <FLHerne> _dp_: Do you mean 7938?
20:40:41  <frosch123> lol
20:40:46  * andythenorth wonders about per-window settings
20:40:47  <_dp_> i mean 8384 i guess xD
20:40:50  <frosch123> 3 random numbers :)
20:40:53  <andythenorth> it's a very Apple thing to do though :P
20:40:55  <_dp_>
20:41:00  <TrueBrain> :D
20:42:00  <_dp_> I just feel it would be more useful to have a list in one place and update it as more are found
20:42:22  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders
20:42:38  <TrueBrain> so please create that list :)
20:42:44  <TrueBrain> not sure why you are asking me to do all the work here :)
20:42:55  <FLHerne> TrueBrain: I don't understand why this isn't just on the PR
20:43:04  <TrueBrain> FLHerne: because we are trying something new
20:43:17  <FLHerne> something something intent :p
20:43:33  <TrueBrain> I wrote the intent pretty well in the discussion thread I hope
20:43:56  <_dp_> TrueBrain, well, you started it :p
20:44:14  <TrueBrain> so ........ you want me to review PRs? or spend time on doing stuff other people can do too? :)
20:44:17  * andythenorth does it
20:44:25  <TrueBrain> spread the workload! :D
20:44:42  <FLHerne> TrueBrain: The intent of what it's meant to be a discussion of, but not why you created a separate discussion thread from the PR one
20:45:04  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone commented on pull request #8307: Feature: Show group name as part of the default vehicle name.
20:45:07  <FLHerne> It makes it pretty hard to find
20:45:24  <_dp_> let's open a discussion to discuss whether we should use discussions or just write in prs! :p
20:45:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders
20:45:33  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8304: Feature: Show the cargoes the vehicles can carry in the list window.
20:45:38  <FLHerne> (maybe it would be less hard to find if we used discussions more, so people actually considered looking at them...)
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20:45:50  <TrueBrain> which .. only happens, if we start using it
20:45:54  <TrueBrain> so not sure where this discussion is going :)
20:45:58  <TrueBrain> either way, it is there now :)
20:46:14  <FLHerne> Recursively, I think
20:46:44  <TrueBrain> wow, the text above trains in 8304 is nearly unreadable (not because of the PR; it was already the case) .. dammmnnn
20:47:02  <TrueBrain> I just ... I can't. And I got glasses!
20:47:51  <frosch123> no freetype support yet?
20:48:38  <TrueBrain>
20:48:42  <TrueBrain> I mean .. I just ... wuth?
20:49:10  <frosch123> TrueBrain: what is the "feature" category in discussions for? should your dicussion in that category?
20:49:20  <TrueBrain> I tried to do that
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20:49:26  <TrueBrain> it is why I made the category :D
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20:49:42  <TrueBrain> fixed :)
20:49:46  <TrueBrain> cheers
20:50:10  <frosch123> TrueBrain: well, with the text overlapping the vehicle roof, it is indeed hard :)
20:50:26  <TrueBrain> that is with OpenGFX fonts :)
20:50:45  <TrueBrain> we tried to stick too many things in a too darn small box :D
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20:52:45  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #7883: Fix: for original terrain generator, keep a single gap of water at the borders
20:54:01  <TrueBrain> I already see a feature they should add in Discussions .. threads inside the discussion, in some form :)
20:54:18  <frosch123> you mean a reddit tree?
20:54:53  <TrueBrain> I guess
20:55:06  <TrueBrain> owh, wait, you can
20:55:08  <TrueBrain> nevermind
20:55:21  <TrueBrain> did not see I had two reply-boxes :)
20:55:58  <TrueBrain> so I guess the next request is going to be: pinning of replies :)
20:55:59  <frosch123> andythenorth: can you split your comment into one comment per headline? then people can comment per headline? or does it not work like that?
20:56:08  <TrueBrain> it seems it does
20:56:09  <andythenorth> not sure, testing it
20:56:12  <TrueBrain> I wanted to ask the same thing :D
20:56:24  <andythenorth> we want something more like...a wiki? :P
20:56:32  <TrueBrain> no
20:56:36  <andythenorth> I have to wrap birthday presents shortly
20:56:45  <TrueBrain> sounds like that should have priority :D
20:56:55  <andythenorth> but yeah I only got about half the list so far, and I bet people point out what I missed
20:57:11  <TrueBrain> so 1 reply per item makes sense in that scenario
20:57:15  <TrueBrain> what you missed, they can fill in :)
20:57:22  <TrueBrain> let's try that out! \o/ :D
21:01:32  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8322: Fix #8313: Correct capitalization on baseset filenames
21:02:20  <TrueBrain> owh boy, now I need to remember where I left my original TT and TTD cd image .... eeeeuuuuhhhhhh
21:02:26  <TrueBrain> that will be interesting :D
21:04:41  <LordAro> i have my TTD cd on the shelf
21:04:59  <TrueBrain> if I remember correctly, TTD had everything lowercase, and TT had almost everything uppercase
21:05:14  <TrueBrain> either way, making GM.CAT uppercase doesn't hurt (it is now lowercase)
21:05:17  <TrueBrain> as we try both :)
21:05:43  <LordAro> that would follow, as TT was a dos game, and TTD was not
21:05:54  <LordAro> (ish)
21:06:37  <andythenorth> ok I did some more
21:06:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i remember the original TT was on CD, but it was essentially just 2 install diskettes mushed together
21:06:45  <andythenorth> I am happy to split it up later maybe
21:06:54  <TrueBrain> please do :)
21:07:04  <TrueBrain> I do not think the current format allows discussion ;)
21:07:09  <TrueBrain> but awesome start, cheers :)
21:07:20  <TrueBrain> I wish I could split if for you .. but then it is like I did all the work :D
21:07:25  <andythenorth> no I will do it
21:07:29  <TrueBrain> <3
21:07:31  <TrueBrain> you are the best!
21:07:31  <andythenorth> I don't mind grinding things out if it means progress
21:07:35  <andythenorth> send emoji
21:08:40  <Eddi|zuHause> also, i think it said "playable from CD ROM" on the package, which was a lie, because it was installable, not playable
21:09:09  <TrueBrain> wow, that is spammy andythenorth  :D But it is okay :D
21:09:56  <andythenorth> I have notifications off :P
21:10:52  <TrueBrain> see, I could reply to something!
21:10:53  * andythenorth considers 'freeze time' for cheat menu
21:11:01  <andythenorth> where things break anyway
21:11:28  <andythenorth> oh we removed 'switch climate' :D
21:11:30  <andythenorth> nvm
21:12:14  <frosch123> TrueBrain: dos only had uppercase filenames
21:12:32  <TrueBrain> frosch123: true
21:12:44  <TrueBrain> okay, so that is the correct fix for this, good
21:12:45  <frosch123> windows considered that ugly, and added some hack to display all-uppercase filenames as all-lowercase
21:12:47  <TrueBrain> typetyp
21:12:54  <TrueBrain> type-y-type :)
21:12:57  <frosch123> no idea whether modern windows still does that
21:13:28  <glx> modern respect the case IIRC
21:14:56  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i guess unless you burn discussions within a week, we also want dorpsgek announcements for it?
21:16:09  *** Samu_ has joined #openttd
21:16:26  <TrueBrain> frosch123: sounds like a plan, yes
21:16:34  <TrueBrain> if you wouldn't mind making a PR for that? :D
21:16:48  <TrueBrain> I will give it a look this weekend earliest :)
21:18:08  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8385: Fix #8313: use correct capitalization for TTO / DOS base-music
21:18:53  <andythenorth> hmm 'profit last year' for vehicles also
21:19:00  <andythenorth> and maybe servicing
21:19:02  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #8322: Fix #8313: Correct capitalization on baseset filenames
21:19:05  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8322: Fix #8313: Correct capitalization on baseset filenames
21:19:07  * andythenorth must to other things
21:19:08  *** Samu has quit IRC
21:19:59  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8385: Fix #8313: use correct capitalization for TTO / DOS base-music
21:20:01  <TrueBrain> cannot believe I fucked ^^ up .. that is impressive .... I had one job ..... lolz
21:20:18  <TrueBrain> (I did all except ".cat" for "" ...)
21:24:06  <TrueBrain> subsidiaries .. that is a nice one andythenorth  .. what would that do if you get one on December :D
21:24:33  <TrueBrain> amazing what you could think of this quick, nice :)
21:28:06  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8385: Fix #8313: use correct capitalization for TTO / DOS base-music
21:28:33  <frosch123> TrueBrain: not sure whether the DOS "hint" should be in the commit message
21:29:10  <frosch123> but it boils down to: DOS had no cases, different FS drivers interpret old DOS filename differently
21:29:54  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] bc-lee updated pull request #8337: Fix: Suppress unnecessary warnings introduced in Xcode 12
21:30:23  <TrueBrain> I am referring to the DOS base music set
21:30:29  <TrueBrain> orig_dos.obm
21:30:33  <TrueBrain> that DOS :)
21:32:17  <TrueBrain> I was otherwise not trying to hint to DOS the OS :P
21:32:24  <TrueBrain> suggestions to word that better are welcome!
21:34:48  <frosch123> the second paragraph of the commit message talks about filenames being lowercase (without mentioning the reason) and copying new (claiming that would be uppercase)
21:34:54  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] bc-lee commented on pull request #8337: Fix: Remove unnessary reference to suppress warning
21:35:35  <TrueBrain> owh, you meant you do want it in the commit message?
21:35:38  <frosch123> suggestion: DOS did not have cases in filenames. Different OS interpret them as either all-lowercase or all-uppercase. So we try both.
21:35:48  <TrueBrain> sorry, ambiguous :D My bad :)
21:36:54  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8337: Fix: Remove unnessary reference to suppress warning
21:37:32  <TrueBrain> awesome, tnx frosch123 ; sorry, really misunderstood you there :P
21:37:34  <frosch123> yeah, your PRs show that github lacks the option to add review-comments to lines in commit messages :)
21:37:34  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8385: Fix #8313: use correct capitalization for TTO / DOS base-music
21:37:40  <TrueBrain> did add an extra sentence to calm people's nerves :)
21:37:47  <TrueBrain> haha, yes :)
21:38:59  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #8385: Fix #8313: use correct capitalization for TTO / DOS base-music
21:39:09  <TrueBrain> one minor language fix :P
21:39:12  <TrueBrain> it annoyed me :D
21:39:13  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain dismissed a review for pull request #8385: Fix #8313: use correct capitalization for TTO / DOS base-music
21:39:16  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8385: Fix #8313: use correct capitalization for TTO / DOS base-music
21:39:42  <andythenorth> I didn't put too much spoiler on the discussion page, but I use date cheat a lot
21:39:47  <andythenorth> I don't break much
21:39:56  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8337: Fix: Remove unnessary reference to suppress warning
21:40:11  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8337: Fix: Remove unnessary reference to suppress warning
21:40:16  <frosch123> TrueBrain: yeah. same thing. you showed me how "force-pushed" gives a diff, but it does not diff the commit message :p
21:40:23  <TrueBrain> haha
21:40:23  <andythenorth> also someone gave me a guerilla daylength patch once, which set the year back once per year
21:40:30  <andythenorth> so game was half speed
21:40:32  <andythenorth> worked 'fine'
21:40:47  <TrueBrain> "and if opening that files fail" -> "and if opening fails"
21:40:51  <TrueBrain> that is what I changed :P
21:40:58  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #8385: Fix #8313: use correct capitalization for TTO / DOS base-music
21:41:26  <TrueBrain> LordAro: lovely quick turnaround :D \o/
21:41:37  <TrueBrain> I really was not sure that did the same in C++ ... I am so terrible at C++, it makes me laugh :D
21:41:57  <LordAro> i'm getting so many emails at the moment, it's basically hit and miss whether i see any of it
21:42:08  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 merged pull request #8382: Fix: [NewGRF] Action 7/9 conditions 0x0B to 0x12 failed, if 'param' was 0x85 or 0x88.
21:42:48  <frosch123> LordAro: polling can be better than event queueing :)
21:43:00  <Samu_> #7918 has a "candidate: probably not"
21:43:02  <LordAro> ^^
21:43:47  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/grfcodec] TrueBrain approved pull request #10: Switch to CMake
21:44:08  <TrueBrain> sorry not sorry LordAro  :)
21:44:45  <TrueBrain> unexpected we are going to hit 59 today .. I was aiming for 60 :)
21:45:10  * andythenorth opens the list
21:45:22  <andythenorth> "where's my hammer" etc
21:45:36  <TrueBrain> there is little left to hammer .. the list was already pretty clean
21:46:07  <andythenorth> I am hammering for quality :P  Or I try at least
21:46:16  <andythenorth> object if I ask stormcone for intents?
21:46:23  <andythenorth> e.g. I would not know until I build it
21:46:23  <TrueBrain> I absolutely love I can push in other people's branches .. makes the small things go a lot quicker
21:46:30  <TrueBrain> asking for a rebase and waiting for that, ugh ...
21:46:42  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: go for it
21:46:42  <andythenorth> I read the joker commits, but am not any wiser
21:47:32  <Samu_> if the group has vehicles that already made a profit, but they are below 2 years old, using AIGroup.GetProfitLastYear gives me a 0. I thought it was a quick fix
21:47:52  <Samu_> they should give their current profit, no matter the age
21:48:04  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8385: Fix #8313: use correct capitalization for TTO / DOS base-music
21:48:05  <Samu_> their last year profit
21:48:07  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8313: OpenTTD does not find GM.CAT when named uppercase.
21:48:45  <TrueBrain> frosch123: <- this is what annoys me about GitHub ... most of those commits are not in any active branch .. it should not show them
21:49:30  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8308: Feature: Add cargo filter support to vehicle list.
21:49:31  <TrueBrain> but I created feedback on Discussions on their Discussions page today :D
21:49:50  <andythenorth> GH use of emoji pisses me off somehow
21:49:56  <andythenorth> it's not one thing nor the other afaict
21:50:06  <TrueBrain> it doesn't support :) etc
21:50:07  * andythenorth just grumbling
21:50:08  <TrueBrain> so annoying
21:50:17  <andythenorth> it has 'proper' emoji support, but it's all weird
21:50:30  <TrueBrain> fuck proper
21:50:34  <TrueBrain> it can go screw itself :P
21:54:08  <Samu_> hmm, if I remember, I went to try to create a 2nd cache where it would store the last year profits no matter the age, but then I came accross some obstacle in the autoreplace code during the copy of variables, and gave up.
21:54:48  <Samu_> but it doesn't invalidate the PR, it's still valid
21:55:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl opened pull request #8386: Change: extend the allowed range for max loan setting
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21:58:00  <andythenorth> hmm why do we have inflation?
21:58:10  <_dp_> to suffer
21:58:11  * andythenorth was reading
21:58:18  <andythenorth> if we want cost inflation, do it in newgrf
21:58:40  <TrueBrain> "100000ll" <- I love random nes and zeroes
21:58:44  <TrueBrain> what shall it mean ....
21:59:02  <_dp_> it was there before me :p
21:59:03  <andythenorth> 7
21:59:05  <andythenorth> 99
21:59:12  <TrueBrain> I understand that, but ... what does it mean?
21:59:38  <TrueBrain> and why did you change it :D
21:59:44  <TrueBrain> there has to be some context around somewhere ...
21:59:51  <_dp_> it's initial balance of the company
22:00:01  <_dp_> when loan is less it becomes weird ;)
22:00:11  <TrueBrain> but your change there makes little sense to me :)
22:00:34  <TrueBrain> if the loan was part of that number, I expected that number to be changed too :P
22:00:51  <_dp_> yeah, it would be better to call it initial loan I guess
22:00:58  <_dp_> can't be > max loan
22:01:57  <TrueBrain> ah, okay, gotcha
22:02:12  <TrueBrain> still, that number, wtf :P
22:02:13  <andythenorth> oof my eyes glaze over on the PR list
22:02:16  <andythenorth> livestream!
22:02:28  <TrueBrain> frosch123: would you join our livestream? :D
22:03:10  <_dp_> don't ask me why it loaned 100k by default though
22:03:10  <_dp_> I'd gladly put it to max loan but a lot of people would object I guess
22:03:10  <_dp_> in fact, I think I set it to max loan automatically on citymania
22:03:11  *** jottyfan has joined #openttd
22:03:16  * andythenorth narrows the scope
22:03:22  <frosch123> i have neither mic nor cam, i can join in irc though :)
22:03:30  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause this would really scratch an itch I have, what does it take to get it done?
22:03:39  <andythenorth> also use funds to send frosch a mic or cam
22:03:43  <andythenorth> just one though
22:03:51  <andythenorth> so either voice and no face, or face and random waving
22:03:54  <andythenorth> maybe the letter
22:03:59  <andythenorth> latter *
22:04:00  <TrueBrain> ooowwwwhhhh, it is ll, not 11
22:04:01  <TrueBrain> holy crap
22:04:06  <TrueBrain> font ... this is annoying
22:04:09  <frosch123> also, what livestream? just a party? or higher intentions?
22:04:10  <TrueBrain> okay, I understand now :)
22:04:26  <andythenorth> if "higher intentions" includes lolz, yes
22:04:33  <TrueBrain> frosch123: my current idea, put 5 of us or so on camera
22:04:35  <TrueBrain> open PR list
22:04:40  <TrueBrain> start talking about features
22:04:44  <TrueBrain> showcase what people have done
22:04:45  <TrueBrain> what works
22:04:47  <TrueBrain> what doesn't
22:04:49  <TrueBrain> have chat open
22:04:52  <TrueBrain> let people vote
22:04:58  <andythenorth> test them on stream
22:04:59  <TrueBrain> and by jury, get some ground covered
22:05:03  <andythenorth> can we MP in wasm yet?
22:05:08  <TrueBrain> but mostly: alcohol and giggles :P
22:05:08  <frosch123> ah, i guess i can use my phone then
22:05:14  <andythenorth> multiplayer coop was so good for advancing the game
22:05:18  <andythenorth> the nightly server etc
22:05:29  <TrueBrain> _dp _: sorry, totally misread that line, it is clear to me now :D
22:05:57  <frosch123> so its ages ago that i used skype on it. no idea whether it still works :)
22:06:19  <_dp_> TrueBrain, lol, I haven't even realised you read those as 1s xD
22:06:37  <TrueBrain> frosch123: it will be Discord in that case :)
22:06:57  <frosch123> discord hates me
22:07:04  <frosch123> they think i am a bot
22:07:20  <frosch123> but maybe when i use a different device, different email, they don't notice
22:07:23  *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
22:07:23  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain requested changes for pull request #8386: Change: extend the allowed range for max loan setting
22:07:29  <TrueBrain> sorry _dp _ :)
22:07:32  <TrueBrain> it is REALLY nitpicking :)
22:08:00  <_dp_> np
22:08:19  <TrueBrain> I am trying to understand .. but it seems they were trying to do something really complex
22:09:14  <TrueBrain> owh, I guess so you can join multiplayer servers directly with the correct version
22:10:39  *** Samu_ has quit IRC
22:11:06  <frosch123> extend it to also download the correct version :p
22:11:24  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
22:11:26  <TrueBrain> lolz, passwords in the protocol handler .. shall we not do that? Pretty please? :D
22:12:02  <TrueBrain> the SecOps in me is exploding; nothing to worry about :)
22:12:05  <milek7> password is useful
22:12:31  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
22:12:51  <frosch123> TrueBrain: it's on the same level as #coops !password
22:12:52  <TrueBrain> only if we rebrand it as "secret password phrase you have to say at the door of the nightclub" :)
22:13:05  <frosch123> everyone who knows the place to get the info can join, random people are kept out
22:13:17  <TrueBrain> until someone doesn't understand it :)
22:13:20  <milek7> eg. passworded server with link to it on private forum
22:13:25  <frosch123> company pw is unusual though
22:13:33  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #8386: Change: extend the allowed range for max loan setting
22:13:38  <TrueBrain> well, yes, that mostly triggered me :P
22:14:05  <TrueBrain> server password ... like coop, they understand what they are doing
22:14:17  <TrueBrain> for some reason I can see the bugreport: someone got in my server?!?!?! :P
22:14:41  <TrueBrain> but okay, password is all kind of wrong in OpenTTD to start with, so not sure this is worth any battle over :D
22:15:00  <TrueBrain> I just read it as "invite code", and I am good :)
22:15:50  <TrueBrain> should the installer register a client, or should the client be capable of registering itself .. hmm .. what is common ..
22:16:47  <_dp_> that query parser looks very rudimentary
22:16:57  <_dp_> can it handle & and % in password for example?
22:17:09  <TrueBrain> you can escape them :)
22:17:14  <TrueBrain> same for Browsers
22:17:22  <_dp_> ah, % is for escaping
22:17:25  <TrueBrain> :)
22:17:36  <TrueBrain> which is pretty neat; I wouldn't have done that :P
22:18:12  <_dp_> is it just urlencode?
22:18:36  *** Speedy` has joined #openttd
22:18:38  <_dp_> didn't quite realize it looking at the parser :p
22:18:55  <TrueBrain> your PR fails! :P
22:19:07  *** Speedyn has quit IRC
22:19:33  <_dp_> huh
22:19:34  <TrueBrain> I would put "min(INITIAL_LOAN, _economy.max_loan) " in a variable btw, just because that line is already LLOOONNNGGGG :P
22:19:38  <_dp_> and on linux weirdly
22:19:47  <milek7> passwords are annoying anyway
22:19:50  <TrueBrain> no, Mac too
22:19:52  <milek7> can we replace them with public-key auth?
22:19:59  <TrueBrain> tests are failing :)
22:20:08  <_dp_> TrueBrain, that whatever, but I use linux myself...
22:20:10  <TrueBrain> milek7: when is your SSL implementation PR coming? :D
22:20:17  <TrueBrain> did you run "make test"? :)
22:20:33  <TrueBrain> seems there is a boo-boo somewhere
22:20:42  <TrueBrain> or the test is weird
22:20:44  <TrueBrain> ah, no, test is weird
22:21:13  <_dp_> where do I even find tests?
22:21:19  <TrueBrain> "make test" :)
22:21:22  <TrueBrain> regression folder
22:21:43  <TrueBrain> regression/regression is the one that is failing
22:21:53  <TrueBrain> basically what it does, on a preset map it runs an AI which does all kinds of stuff
22:21:58  <TrueBrain> and the output is compared
22:22:51  *** jottyfan has quit IRC
22:24:06  <milek7> TrueBrain: this is not related to TLS
22:24:50  <TrueBrain> if we can do HTTPS, we can "solve" passwords pretty easily :)
22:25:31  <milek7> HTTPS talk was about content server, no?
22:25:38  <TrueBrain> well, we could over HTTP, but we need some crypt to setup trust .. so SSL, lol
22:26:03  <TrueBrain> the moments I talk about HTTPS it is mostly because I want a centralized authentication mechanism
22:26:11  <TrueBrain> (well, "centralized" .. you can pick which one you want to use)
22:26:17  <_dp_> where does this test takes config from? regression.cfg is almost empty and it should be 300k max loan by default
22:26:19  <TrueBrain> as that allows cloud saves
22:26:23  <TrueBrain> but also a lot of other shit :)
22:26:28  <TrueBrain> main.nut
22:26:57  <_dp_> I mean what openttd.cfg it runs with
22:27:06  <TrueBrain> regression.cfg
22:27:27  <milek7> I thought about: at first launch generate pubkey and store in .openttd directory
22:27:34  <_dp_> well, it's 300k there so neither 500k nor 2mm is right
22:27:35  <milek7> use that pubkey automatically when creating and accessing companies
22:27:51  <TrueBrain> milek7: generating pubkey requires an SSL library :D
22:27:59  <TrueBrain> but yeah, that is a method too, for sure :)
22:28:14  <milek7> nah, I don't want TLS for this
22:28:31  <TrueBrain> you keep saying TLS, I mean an SSL library :) One that can do RSA or what-ever :)
22:29:12  <TrueBrain> something that does a safe crypto
22:30:20  <frosch123> night
22:30:23  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
22:31:57  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] twpol commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders
22:32:00  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] twpol updated pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders
22:32:10  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] twpol commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders
22:32:14  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] twpol commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders
22:32:17  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] twpol commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders
22:32:26  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] twpol commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders
22:34:08  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] twpol commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders
22:34:34  <TrueBrain> milek7: libcurl is easiest, as it gives us HTTPS, but openssl / wolfSSL / bearSSL is most robust, as it gives us all kind of choices. If we do any of that, all these problems can easily be resolved
22:34:42  <TrueBrain> we could also hook into the crypto some OSes offer
22:34:53  <TrueBrain> but that just means we are doing it our self :D
22:35:35  <milek7> I would rather do that crypto-password-replacement and https-content as completely independent things
22:35:45  <TrueBrain> what https-content do you refer to?
22:35:51  <TrueBrain> owh, instead of the http
22:35:58  <TrueBrain> that is very low on my list of prios :)
22:36:15  <TrueBrain> anyway, if we plan on doing HTTPS, you can solve authentication a lot nicer
22:36:24  <TrueBrain> so doing any password replacement would be rather short-term
22:37:04  <_dp_> hmm, make test fails for me even on master
22:37:09  <_dp_> and with no info why
22:37:22  <milek7> HTTPS is just secure transport, how it solves authentication?
22:37:23  <TrueBrain> you need that env variable to get output
22:37:24  <TrueBrain> euuhh
22:37:32  <TrueBrain> CTEST_OUTPUT_ON_FAILURE=1
22:37:40  <TrueBrain> milek7: certificates!
22:37:49  <TrueBrain> so no MITM
22:37:53  <milek7> I don't think you want client-side certs? :P
22:38:03  <_dp_> ah, ok, no graphics set, cool :/
22:38:12  <TrueBrain> no; I want trust between client and a Centralized Authenticator :)
22:38:21  <TrueBrain> haha, yeah, that is always annoying
22:38:27  <TrueBrain> put OpenGFX in your ~/.openttd/baseset
22:38:30  <TrueBrain> and it will work :)
22:38:45  <milek7> ah, central authorization
22:38:50  <TrueBrain> milek7: I once wrote it all down, but we shut down the server it was one :D
22:39:12  <TrueBrain> but what we do for BaNaNaS for example
22:39:18  <TrueBrain> just a simple OAuth2 flow
22:39:33  <milek7> this feels bit icky, central authorization in oss game ;P
22:39:39  <_dp_> TrueBrain, magic %)
22:39:40  <TrueBrain> it is not centralized in that sense
22:39:43  <TrueBrain> anyone can run it
22:39:49  <TrueBrain> but it is like our content service
22:39:56  <TrueBrain> we offer a place too
22:40:15  <TrueBrain> in my plans I left room for a server to announce the CA it wants you to use
22:40:21  <TrueBrain> so server operators can pick
22:41:06  <TrueBrain> but, honestly, most people would use ours
22:41:16  <TrueBrain> but, freedom of choice; I personally wouldn't care :)
22:41:26  <TrueBrain> so it fits perfectly in an OSS game :)
22:41:45  <milek7> and anyway, it requires user to come up with password, create account, etc.
22:41:50  <TrueBrain> _dp _: it is possible the current regression was already broken
22:42:12  <TrueBrain> milek7: doesn't have to, honestly
22:42:22  <TrueBrain> so many possibilities :D
22:42:41  <TrueBrain> what does happen, however, is that you unique assign an ID to a user, in what-ever-way
22:42:51  <TrueBrain> (for that session)
22:43:27  <TrueBrain> for companies, this is most obvious: it means you can auto-lock a company to a player, and he can invite other players (that first join as spectator, for example)
22:43:33  <TrueBrain> never any password nothing
22:43:41  <TrueBrain> that would be smooth as silk :)
22:45:08  <_dp_> TrueBrain, well, it sure looks like but what should I do? "fix" the test?
22:45:23  <TrueBrain> I rather have you investigate why it breaks, but not sure you are up for that :D
22:45:40  <_dp_> well, I tried but no result so far
22:45:44  <TrueBrain> _economy.max_loan is really that big number
22:45:48  <_dp_> also it seems unrelated to my change
22:45:51  <TrueBrain> so it would need some debugging to figure out why that happens
22:46:07  <TrueBrain> sometimes one fix shows another problem, sadly
22:46:18  <_dp_> it seems regression somehow fucks up with config
22:46:44  <TrueBrain> it might be the savegame
22:46:54  <TrueBrain> and that there is a load-mechanism making it max
22:47:31  <_dp_> oh, it has savegame
22:47:43  <TrueBrain> I told you that, yes :D
22:47:54  <_dp_> I...  missed it :]
22:47:55  <TrueBrain> it fully runs in a known-state
22:48:00  <TrueBrain> no worries, I am just teasing you :)
22:48:34  <milek7> isn't it just AI that tries to take maximum loan, so results are different now?
22:49:07  <TrueBrain> but why does the max-loan change? His patch only changes the setting what that max-loan value is
22:51:53  <_dp_> it something about that save it seems
22:52:02  <_dp_> doesn't change for my saves
22:52:19  <TrueBrain> most likely the savegame version in that case
22:52:26  <TrueBrain> one from before 97, I would guess
22:53:33  <TrueBrain> `dbg: [sl] Loading savegame version 104`
22:54:05  <TrueBrain> converted from an older savegame
22:54:12  <TrueBrain> 53 -> 98 -> 104
22:55:00  <TrueBrain> sadly, it does mean we have to find what is going on, as this can influence older savegames a lot :)
22:55:13  <TrueBrain> grepping on max_loan doesn't help me at all ...
22:55:24  <TrueBrain> the black magic around the settings system is ... "nice" I guess? :D
22:55:32  <_dp_> yeah, me too...
22:55:38  <_dp_> but I should be able to figure it out eventually
22:55:49  <_dp_> I'm kinda familiar with those parts xD
22:56:03  <TrueBrain> would be really great, and it most likely shows a bug we are like: how did we not notice this earlier?!
22:56:51  <TrueBrain> but loading that savegame manually shows a max-loan of 500k
22:57:30  <_dp_> it somehow sets it to max of that setting on load instead of default or whatever
22:57:42  <_dp_> so 500k without patch and 2mm with
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22:58:01  <TrueBrain> that is .... bad :P
22:59:29  <TrueBrain> with UINT32_MAX, it does cap off at 2B
22:59:38  <TrueBrain> so .... possibly 2B is in the savegame
22:59:42  <TrueBrain> and it was just clamped all this time :D
23:00:03  <_dp_> now that's an interesting theory...
23:00:15  <_dp_> I'll try to feed it to my python xD
23:00:34  <TrueBrain> change your max to like 2,500,000,000
23:00:36  <TrueBrain> :D
23:00:42  <TrueBrain> what a stupidity :D Holy crap :)
23:06:47  <TrueBrain> upperlimit always has been 500k
23:06:57  <TrueBrain> so that means someone did something evil :)
23:07:10  <TrueBrain> but please confirm that value is really in the savegame
23:07:10  <_dp_> my python doesn't eat OTTZ... sad python :(
23:07:27  <TrueBrain> and that also means you can just fix the result.txt with the new values :)
23:07:45  <TrueBrain> off to bed for me; good luck with this WTF IS THIS CRAP from 2008 or so :P
23:07:47  <TrueBrain> I wrote it :D
23:08:12  <_dp_> gn xD
23:08:29  <milek7> so, I could write sometime pubkey authorization, or you want to do your cloud thingy?
23:11:16  *** Wolf01 has quit IRC
23:14:59  <TrueBrain> Personally I would prefer someone puts time in getting an SSL library in board, but you should do what you enjoy :) And if that is toying with pubkey implementations, you should do so :D
23:15:05  <TrueBrain> Make a draft etc
23:15:25  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
23:16:04  <TrueBrain> Don't make it all polished before sharing, I would suggest :)
23:17:00  <TrueBrain> What I like about OpenTTD, there is a lot of room to do shit you enjoy :)
23:17:25  <TrueBrain> And if I am given the choice you doing nothing or doing pubkey, I take the pubkey :D
23:17:42  <TrueBrain> So dealers choice milek7 :)
23:19:02  <milek7> :)
23:19:09  <milek7> again, I think any library I would use there should be not related with eventual https support (which should use libcurl/winhttp/whatever depending on platform)
23:20:39  <TrueBrain> I agree, that is why I think openssl, WolfSSL is more likely
23:20:49  <TrueBrain> As libcurl does not offer https server, I believe
23:21:08  <TrueBrain> But .. someone has to explore this
23:21:24  <_dp_> ok, 2mm in save confirmed:
23:21:30  <TrueBrain> So pubkey is as good as a start as any ;)
23:21:53  <TrueBrain> Lollzzzz ... riggghhhttt .. :D
23:21:54  <_dp_> that's pure python so only original bugs xD
23:22:55  <_dp_> someone's been naughty this year for sure :p
23:23:01  <_dp_> well, some year I guess...
23:23:08  <TrueBrain> I blame Rb :)
23:24:17  <_dp_> tbh the way max loan is stored changed so much I'm not surprised it got borked
23:25:20  <_dp_> so, funnily enough, it will even be 100% correct with the new patch :p
23:25:33  <_dp_> as that value is now valid
23:29:21  <_dp_> that may or may not mean that afterload is not right for some old versions though...
23:30:10  <TrueBrain> But not a bug :D
23:34:00  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #8386: Change: extend the allowed range for max loan setting
23:35:51  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8386: Change: extend the allowed range for max loan setting
23:39:53  <_dp_> hm... those settings... I wonder if that's the bug in my python or pf penalties are even more broken
23:41:57  <milek7> starting year -805306361?
23:43:33  <_dp_> yeah, looks like python oopsie
23:44:15  *** arikover` has quit IRC
23:44:16  <_dp_> well, at least it decoded what mattered :p
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