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00:10:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ipatix commented on issue #8313: OpenTTD does not find GM.CAT when named uppercase. https://git.io/JUudP 00:14:36 <_dp_> fwiw I fixed settings in that comment 00:19:19 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 00:22:33 *** gelignite has quit IRC 00:53:41 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 01:22:45 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl opened pull request #8387: Change: send network error to the server before making an emergency save https://git.io/JLsmp 01:53:43 *** tokai has joined #openttd 01:53:43 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 02:00:30 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 02:01:55 *** tokai has quit IRC 02:04:41 *** tokai has joined #openttd 02:04:41 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 02:34:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8386: Change: extend the allowed range for max loan setting https://git.io/JLslh 02:41:57 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 03:17:12 *** rptr_ has joined #openttd 03:33:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 03:41:00 *** debdog has joined #openttd 03:44:18 *** D-HUND has quit IRC 03:56:13 *** glx has quit IRC 05:17:31 *** rptr_ has quit IRC 06:00:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy commented on pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders https://git.io/JLsxb 06:01:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy commented on pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders https://git.io/JLsxp 06:31:54 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:50:00 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 06:51:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] lodewijkadlp opened issue #8389: HDR rendering (12-bit, 16-bit, high brightness) ! https://git.io/JLGT4 06:57:19 <LordAro> wut. 07:10:34 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:11:51 <LordAro> TrueBrain: should probably add discussions to dorpsgek if they're going to work 07:36:09 <TrueBrain> As I said to frosch123 when he said the same: we accept PRs :) 07:38:24 <TrueBrain> But otherwise I will give that a look this weekend or so :) 07:39:54 <LordAro> :p 08:56:37 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 08:56:50 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 10:40:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 10:53:28 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 11:07:50 <andythenorth> it's oh so quiet 11:07:57 * andythenorth frantically making html 11:08:00 <andythenorth> with many tpyos 11:08:09 <andythenorth> broke prod live yesterday oof :| 11:12:29 <Timberwolf> Replace it with web OpenTTD. We can do that now. 11:14:35 <andythenorth> yes! 11:14:38 <andythenorth> might have some issues 11:14:44 <andythenorth> does OpenTTD have a podcast player yet? 11:15:33 <Timberwolf> "sorry our site gave you a 503, but you can watch Timberwolf do awful things to horses instead" 11:16:27 <andythenorth> that sounds like something from Amsterdam 11:16:32 <andythenorth> let's not go there 11:31:46 *** APTX_ has joined #openttd 11:33:55 *** APTX has quit IRC 11:33:55 *** daspork has quit IRC 11:33:55 *** k-man has quit IRC 11:35:48 *** daspork has joined #openttd 11:44:38 *** k-man has joined #openttd 11:47:23 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 13:20:02 *** Samu has joined #openttd 13:21:49 <andythenorth> groundhog *month* ? :P 13:26:54 <Samu> hi 13:27:33 *** glx has joined #openttd 13:27:33 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 13:33:07 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 13:39:32 <andythenorth> do we need a discussion thread like groundhog, but for daylength? 13:44:41 <glx> no, daylength is asking for troubles 13:45:20 <andythenorth> maybe, and I think it's not viable 13:45:30 <andythenorth> but I don't know of anyone place that sets it out as a clear problem 13:45:35 <andythenorth> problems can be solved 13:45:55 <andythenorth> or are intractable :P 14:21:18 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 14:36:33 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 14:55:39 *** Progman has joined #openttd 14:55:40 <supermop_Home> andythenorth i think its just 2-4 different clear problems 14:55:55 <supermop_Home> and 2-6 desired solutions 15:00:02 <andythenorth> can we write them out, under headings? 15:00:04 <andythenorth> rationally? 15:04:19 <supermop_Home> probably 15:05:00 <supermop_Home> you'd need one person with the focus to do that who also holds an empathetic understanding of each of them 15:08:23 <Timberwolf> Yes, and I don't think anyone has ever made the distinction between e.g. "I want a slower scaled game with proportionately smaller cargo production" vs. "I want the same game, but with slower technology progression" 15:10:26 <andythenorth> nobody has written into a stable public place 15:10:32 <andythenorth> it has been said a few times in forums or here 15:11:27 <andythenorth> the second goal I could understand better 15:11:41 <andythenorth> the first goal I haven't found understanding of 15:13:15 <nielsm> the first could technically be solved just by making vehicles much faster 15:13:31 <andythenorth> or newgrf industries and houses 15:13:39 <nielsm> yeah with lowered production 15:19:40 <Samu> question: how do i do the squirrel export thing now? 15:20:20 <nielsm> I think it's automatic? 15:21:13 <Samu> hmm okay 15:22:29 <Samu> the auto-generated files are no longer part of the project? 15:22:41 <glx> they are generated at compile time 15:22:51 <Samu> the hpp.sq 15:29:17 <Samu> ah, found it, it's in the out\build\ folder 15:32:14 <Samu> Git integration on Visual Studio changed again. It still doesn't have a force push. If it has a rebase, why won't they also have a force push 15:33:31 *** Flygon has quit IRC 15:39:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders https://git.io/JLnvm 15:56:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8354: Feature: Train speed adaption. https://git.io/JLnkZ 16:03:57 <andythenorth> https://openoffice.apache.org/docs/governance/lazyConsensus.html 16:12:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #8390: Add: [AI/GS] Missing water related functions and objects https://git.io/JLnqJ 16:18:34 <Samu> the preview.openttd.org is pretty 16:18:42 <Samu> but it crashes when starting an ai 16:21:05 <LordAro> Samu: nice find 16:21:10 <LordAro> TrueBrain: bug! 16:22:43 <LordAro> newgrfs work, so it's not just downloaded content 16:25:52 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 16:32:26 <FLHerne> How about GS? 16:33:42 <LordAro> FLHerne: same 16:33:55 <LordAro> there's no crash info, unfortuantely 16:34:01 <TrueBrain> Pfft, who uses AIs anyway! (Which is only funny because I wrote the framework :D) 16:34:14 <TrueBrain> LordAro: in console should be snippets 16:34:36 <LordAro> TrueBrain: nothing except a numeric code 16:34:37 <FLHerne> How do I preview.openttd.org? Just that URL is a blank screen 16:34:53 <LordAro> https://preview.openttd.org/pr8234/ this one 16:35:11 <LordAro> i already poked TB about giving preview a listing homepage :p 16:35:31 <FLHerne> Got it 16:35:54 <FLHerne> Oh, there's a custom loading screen now :-) 16:36:30 <TrueBrain> Which is not going to happen :) 16:36:36 <LordAro> TrueBrain: oh wait, there is something of value now 16:36:40 <LordAro> there wasn't before, promise 16:36:44 <TrueBrain> There is no autolisting 16:36:51 <TrueBrain> On S3 16:37:01 <TrueBrain> So ... empty page is best I can do :) 16:37:39 <LordAro> actually, this output still looks unhelpful 16:39:12 <LordAro> TrueBrain: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/kwPnf3dpnN/ 16:40:31 <milek7> if I have [STDC_BOOL] declared as var = network.something 16:40:40 <milek7> what is required to make it appear in settings window? 16:50:08 <nielsm> putting it in the settings_gui.cpp file somewhere, as far as I remember 16:52:19 <TrueBrain> LordAro: that looks very obvious? Something is wrong with a translation string? First line? What am I missing :D 16:52:58 <milek7> that's just warning, probably something else crashes 16:53:04 <TrueBrain> I am surprised it shows functionnames in the back trace :D 16:54:14 <TrueBrain> I will have to check myself when I am back home in that case :) 16:54:55 <glx> milek7: GetSettingsTree() I guess 16:58:43 <milek7> ok 17:01:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy commented on pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders https://git.io/JLnWr 17:26:35 <LordAro> TrueBrain: looks like just a warning to me 17:28:47 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 17:33:11 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 17:39:29 <TrueBrain> Too slowwww 17:39:32 <TrueBrain> :p 17:47:54 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 17:59:48 <TrueBrain> LordAro: btw, I was thinking, I could use the root URL for the nightly OpenTTD .. at least is better than an empty page I guess 18:01:00 <LordAro> TrueBrain: could do 18:01:14 <LordAro> assuming we think hosting such a version is a good idea 18:01:29 <TrueBrain> I kinda want to put it on the frontpage :P :D 18:01:37 <TrueBrain> hmm, console also doesn't work with Chrome, funny 18:01:48 <TrueBrain> I tested many things, but not those :D 18:08:27 <TrueBrain> gratz andythenorth , on stimulating a constructive conversation on Discord today :) That was a fine read :D 18:10:02 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 18:12:26 <TrueBrain> "Exception catching is disabled, this exception cannot be caught. Compile with -s DISABLE_EXCEPTION_CATCHING=0 or DISABLE_EXCEPTION_CATCHING=2 to catch" <- is it me .. or is that weird? :D 18:12:30 <TrueBrain> set it to 0 to enable? :P 18:12:55 <milek7> it's "DISABLE" 18:13:14 <milek7> better question is, what 2 does :D 18:13:36 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders https://git.io/JLn2x 18:13:44 <TrueBrain> yes ... DISABLE=0 18:13:53 <TrueBrain> it is weird 18:14:04 <TrueBrain> and no clue what 2 does, the documentation doesn't mention it :P 18:14:14 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/emscripten-core/emscripten/blob/master/src/settings.js#L564 18:14:17 <TrueBrain> first place that documents it 18:14:19 <TrueBrain> .. lol 18:18:37 <TrueBrain> so you enable the catching again, and it still doesn't capture it :D 18:18:40 <TrueBrain> THIS IS NOT USEFUL :P 18:20:02 <milek7> debug build, -s ASSERTIONS=1 -s EXCEPTION_DEBUG=1 -s DISABLE_EXCEPTION_CATCHING=0 18:20:08 <milek7> that should help? 18:21:14 <TrueBrain> lol... it shows the backtrace, then tells you it failed to capture the throw 18:21:19 <TrueBrain> anyyywwaaaayyyyy 18:21:27 <TrueBrain> script_controller.cpp:123 18:21:31 <TrueBrain> at least I have a line :) 18:22:14 <TrueBrain> throw sq_throwerror(vm, error); 18:24:45 <TrueBrain> so we have 2 bugs :D 18:24:52 <TrueBrain> 1) emscripten doesn't handle throws 18:25:01 <TrueBrain> 2) for some reason the library cannot be loaded :) 18:30:50 <andythenorth> what a long day of html today was 18:31:01 <andythenorth> maybe I stop now 18:31:45 <TrueBrain> do something fun! 18:32:07 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 18:32:28 <andythenorth> it got results, but yes 18:32:39 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 18:32:56 <andythenorth> the speedrun chat in discord is amusing 18:33:05 <andythenorth> I have no idea what is going on, but it seems funny 18:33:34 <TrueBrain> what ... are you doing? :D 18:36:54 <TrueBrain> okay, when building without disabling exception (this is so annoying to write like that :P), at least it shows the error in the AI window :D 18:37:01 <TrueBrain> does need some finetuning, but we can do that 18:37:44 <glx> oh of course AI/GS heavily relies on exceptions IIRC 18:39:33 <andythenorth> Discuss! https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/discussions/8388 18:40:01 <TrueBrain> glx: yes, yes it does :) 18:42:27 <TrueBrain> the whole reason it works is because there is a constant flow of Suspend throws :P 18:43:05 <TrueBrain> pathfinder.road.4 is downloaded, AI wants pathfinder.road.3, and cannot find it 18:43:09 <TrueBrain> well, that somewhat makes sense, I guess 18:43:28 <LordAro> andythenorth: i should ban you for making a '+1' comment 18:43:33 <LordAro> that's exactly what the reaction things are for! 18:44:48 <andythenorth> 'ban' is a bit "0->100 quickly" 18:44:50 <andythenorth> we need gifs 18:45:14 <TrueBrain> give you a firm slap on the head? :D 18:46:08 <andythenorth> what even are reactions? 18:46:23 <TrueBrain> after I downloaded pathfinder.road.3 myself, which shows in the list of course because it is a dependency, it did work 18:46:37 <TrueBrain> so it seems the content download did not download dependencies correctly 18:46:53 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 18:47:11 <TrueBrain> neither does it on Linux :o 18:47:26 <TrueBrain> but .. then it should not work on Linux too, which it does :P 18:49:45 <TrueBrain> also on Linux this is an issue 18:50:03 <TrueBrain> so although 1) is an emscripten specific problem, 2) is not 18:51:07 <TrueBrain> but ONLY if I add a debug print on Linux, it crashes in the same way 18:51:11 <TrueBrain> otherwise it just loads the wrong library 18:51:33 <TrueBrain> righhhhttt ... I think we have a bug in the script loading code :D 18:51:52 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 18:52:12 <TrueBrain> LordAro: for 50 points, can I interest you in a WTF IS THE COMPILER DOING THIS TIME? :D 18:52:32 <TrueBrain> well, 2 bugs honestly .. 1) dependencies are not downloaded correctly (wrong version) 18:52:40 <TrueBrain> 2) newer versions are loaded while not requested 18:55:51 *** Samu has quit IRC 18:57:34 <TrueBrain> ah, it is not related to my debug statement, it is just RNG 18:57:57 <TrueBrain> sometimes it does run "ScriptController::Import", sometimes it doesn't .. 18:58:41 <TrueBrain> which is pretty impressive, given it is the first line in the main.nut 18:59:31 <TrueBrain> so a timing bug too 18:59:32 <TrueBrain> great 18:59:37 <TrueBrain> not for me to debug, not today :) 18:59:49 <TrueBrain> I will see about the catch{} stuff this weekend or sot :) 19:00:24 <LordAro> ooh fun 19:00:36 <TrueBrain> yeah ... I think I just file a bug-report, honestly :) 19:01:04 <TrueBrain> but something strange is happening :D 19:01:08 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 19:01:28 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8386 <- quick round of votes, anyone against max-load of 0 or max-load of 2B? 19:03:03 <TrueBrain> very curious how long it takes before we get a bug report: I start with 0 money!!!! :D 19:03:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 opened pull request #8391: RFC: Feature: Public key company authorization https://git.io/JLnig 19:03:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8386: Change: extend the allowed range for max loan setting https://git.io/JLni2 19:03:52 <LordAro> i was about to ask why the regression sav has its results changed 19:03:55 <LordAro> but then i read a bit more 19:04:09 <TrueBrain> you missed a mind-fuck yesterday :) 19:04:45 <frosch123> are the int64 correct? or should they be Money? 19:04:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8386: Change: extend the allowed range for max loan setting https://git.io/JLnid 19:06:01 <andythenorth> \o/ 19:06:16 <andythenorth> ha PR count is up though :) 19:06:24 <andythenorth> lol 'contributions' :) 19:07:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8387: Change: send network error to the server before making an emergency save https://git.io/JLnPC 19:09:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8391: RFC: Feature: Public key company authorization https://git.io/JLnPP 19:09:46 <TrueBrain> LordAro: lol, I just also checked that :P 19:09:55 <LordAro> ^^ 19:11:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8391: RFC: Feature: Public key company authorization https://git.io/JLnXv 19:15:11 <TrueBrain> LordAro: OpenTTD still does {} when things are not on the same line as "if", right? 19:15:14 <TrueBrain> (even for one-liners) 19:16:09 <TrueBrain> owh, you already mentioned that, sorry :D 19:16:11 <TrueBrain> sloowwwwww 19:16:57 <LordAro> :) 19:17:11 <LordAro> if (foo) single_statement(); 19:17:28 <LordAro> if (foo) {\nmultiple();\nstatements();\n} 19:17:40 <TrueBrain> good :) 19:18:38 <andythenorth> can we clear out any 'probably nots'? 19:18:44 * andythenorth livestream! 19:20:00 <TrueBrain> milek7: from your description, but I would have to look into the code, it sounds like your "pubkey" just acts like a secret 19:20:38 <milek7> it's more like username 19:21:11 <milek7> and during connecting to server you must prove you can sign something with matching privatekey 19:21:24 <TrueBrain> okay, yeah, that is not that clear in your words, hence me asking :) 19:21:33 <TrueBrain> you should always sign something with what only you know 19:21:39 <TrueBrain> what the other side can validate that only you signed :) 19:21:40 <TrueBrain> good 19:22:10 <TrueBrain> but this can be a lingo issue :D 19:22:45 <TrueBrain> so "secret_key" is private_key? 19:22:59 <milek7> yes 19:23:01 <TrueBrain> (not debating how to call it, just so we talk the same words :D) 19:23:37 <TrueBrain> as if there is one thing I learnt from working for a cyber security company for 6 years ... it is easy to write encryption, it is MUCH EASIER to fuck it up :P 19:24:18 <TrueBrain> I literally have seen people sending their pubkey + challenge back, without signing anything 19:24:22 <TrueBrain> thinking it was secure :P 19:24:36 <TrueBrain> or, having the server with a private key, while authenticating clients 19:24:38 <TrueBrain> that was fun too! 19:24:55 <TrueBrain> the horror stories ... right, focus .. 19:24:58 <milek7> server sends 16 random bytes, client signs them and returns its pubkey and signature 19:24:59 <milek7> server verifies if signature is valid for given pubkey and random data it sent earlier 19:25:17 <TrueBrain> cool! 19:25:50 <TrueBrain> signature == signing, I assume? 19:25:54 <TrueBrain> yes, we covered that 19:25:55 <TrueBrain> cool 19:26:32 <TrueBrain> (people tend to confuse digests with signing, hence the maybe stupid question :D) 19:27:29 <TrueBrain> how does it handle you setting a company password after it also has a pubkey protection? 19:27:50 <milek7> it does have both 19:27:53 <milek7> and requires either one to join 19:27:58 <TrueBrain> nice:) 19:28:03 <milek7> (if pubkey doesn't match, you can still try to enter password) 19:28:21 <TrueBrain> why is there a string "KEYAUTH" in there .. what does that do ... hmm 19:29:06 <milek7> https://github.com/jedisct1/libhydrogen/wiki/Contexts 19:30:24 <TrueBrain> not clear to me if it is a nonce or not, but meh, doesn't really matter in our context 19:31:46 <TrueBrain> ah, no, it is not 19:31:46 <TrueBrain> cool 19:31:47 *** Samu has joined #openttd 19:33:27 <TrueBrain> it uses Curve25519 .. so DH .. so .. we can also encrypt communication between client/server this way? :D 19:34:20 <milek7> we could ;p 19:34:35 <milek7> there's encryption and dedicated key-exchange api in this 19:35:18 <TrueBrain> cool :) 19:35:36 <TrueBrain> and again, sorry if the questions sound stupid to you; but I don't know your background, and if you copy/pasted this together or know what you are doing :P 19:35:44 <TrueBrain> occupational hazard ;) 19:35:59 <milek7> of course I copy-pasted this :P 19:36:45 <TrueBrain> I wanted to throw in an insult to another user of this channel, but I refrained :) 19:38:08 <frosch123> starts with X ? 19:38:20 <TrueBrain> no, insulting Xaroth I do without issue 19:38:27 <TrueBrain> our PeterT replacement 19:38:42 <Xaroth> .... 19:38:45 <frosch123> ah, also starts with X sometimes 19:40:28 <TrueBrain> milek7: looks nice on the surface; haven't looked into yet where you leave your secrets, but that will come :) 19:40:48 <TrueBrain> no clue how we rate another 3rdparty library, but it is rather small, so meh 19:41:30 <milek7> any comment on 'Implications and further changes' paragraph? 19:42:32 <TrueBrain> more keys -> no comments at this stage; there are 2 roads from a PR like this, how I see it 19:42:48 <TrueBrain> either server tracks "last name" with pubkeys, store that in savegame, so you can manage who can access your company 19:42:54 <TrueBrain> or we bounce it via a centralized server 19:43:04 <TrueBrain> basically, this is the cheap variant of the ssl library I have been wanting ;) 19:43:54 <TrueBrain> privacy concerns -> yes and no, depends on ^^ 19:44:01 <TrueBrain> you can just generate a key per server you join 19:44:11 <TrueBrain> makes it completely anonymous 19:46:08 <milek7> I have this idea with sharing pubkey with other clients, so you could have cross-server friends list etc. 19:46:10 <milek7> there's slight privacy issue but meh, it's like username in any other game 19:46:53 <milek7> and there would be that 'privacy' option with keys generated for specific server 19:47:10 <TrueBrain> with a "centralized" server idea, you can have a true friends list (again, not really centralized .. a connected group of servers, is a better word :D) 19:47:35 <TrueBrain> it also means you can bind a username to a pubkey 19:47:40 <TrueBrain> which solves SO MANY ISSUES server admins have 19:48:59 <TrueBrain> (in regards to faking you are someone else :P) 19:55:12 <milek7> about codestyle.. 19:55:17 <milek7> if (keypair_file == nullptr) or if (!keypair_file) 19:56:12 <TrueBrain> https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Development/Coding%20style doesn't seem to mention that :P 19:56:44 <TrueBrain> but explicit for implicit, so the first, I think :) 19:56:51 <TrueBrain> LordAro knows :P 19:57:48 <TrueBrain> never assume nullptr is 0 :P :D 19:57:56 <TrueBrain> is this fixed in specs by now, that it is 0? 19:59:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8386: Change: extend the allowed range for max loan setting https://git.io/JLnHz 20:00:07 <frosch123> we no longer follow that rule. it's a C rule, that came out of fashion in c++ 20:00:15 <milek7> "A prvalue of arithmetic, unscoped enumeration, pointer, or pointer to member type can be converted to a prvalue of type bool. A zero value, null pointer value, or null member pointer value is converted to false; any other value is converted to true." 20:00:58 <LordAro> milek7: i tend to prefer explicit null checks 20:01:14 <LordAro> it does work, and it is defined to work, but it's still confusing 20:01:16 <TrueBrain> milek7: wow .. well, that is an improvement :) 20:01:54 <frosch123> TrueBrain: that is a c argument. c++ is type-strict and does an implicit conversion to bool, when needed 20:02:18 <TrueBrain> just to repeat myself: that is an improvement :) 20:02:35 <TrueBrain> (not sure what was a C argument .. that it is an improvement? Not sure :D) 20:02:55 <frosch123> in C everything is an int 20:03:21 <LordAro> or an array 20:03:43 <LordAro> (of ints) 20:04:43 <frosch123> only in C you find stuff like "if (!intbool1 == !intbool2)" or "int safebool = !!intbool;" 20:04:43 <TrueBrain> well, strictly seen that is a pointer to a piece of memory :P 20:05:12 <frosch123> TrueBrain: haha, no :) with that interpretation you get undefined behaviour 20:05:19 <TrueBrain> welcome to C! 20:05:20 <TrueBrain> :D 20:05:20 * LordAro regularly finds things like "boolVal != false" in C++ at work 20:05:41 <TrueBrain> in any language ... beginner Python programmers do that a lot too :( 20:06:08 <frosch123> LordAro: yeah, you can only make that worse with "return boolval ? true : false" 20:06:50 <LordAro> we have those too 20:06:53 <TrueBrain> never sure what is worse: "return var ? true : false" or "return !!var" 20:07:00 <TrueBrain> (where var is anything, not only bools) 20:07:14 <LordAro> if (boolval) { return true; } else { return false; } 20:07:17 <frosch123> yeah !! is C in a nutshell :) 20:07:28 <LordAro> also JS and other loosely typed languages 20:07:32 <TrueBrain> but "return" has the same function, basically :P So I am never really sure :) 20:07:35 <TrueBrain> but I like C :D 20:07:39 <frosch123> LordAro: now you are paid by lines of code :) 20:07:41 <TrueBrain> I do not understand C++ :( 20:08:03 <frosch123> not understanding c++ is no excuse to like c 20:08:27 <TrueBrain> I never said that :) That is your interpretation ;) 20:08:46 <TrueBrain> I like C. And, completely unrelated, I do not understand C++ 20:09:06 <frosch123> well "liking C" is just wrong :) 20:09:09 <TrueBrain> it is just annoying that most people assume: you know C? Owh, here is a C++ program, can you debug? 20:09:36 <frosch123> oh, don't worry, people also claim the reverse :) 20:09:36 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 20:09:37 <TrueBrain> Well, you know I am not completely there, so that is no surprise I hope :P 20:09:54 <TrueBrain> well, I guess if you can read C++ syntax, you at least know what the C code reads 20:10:01 <TrueBrain> I have C++ constructs, I am like: WTF DOES THIS DO!? 20:10:13 <frosch123> to quote kate gregory: when people say you should learn C before learning C++, do they mean you should also learn modula2 first? :) 20:10:27 <TrueBrain> that really is bullshit, to learn C before C++ 20:10:28 <TrueBrain> lolz 20:10:34 <TrueBrain> which idiots say that? :D 20:11:01 <frosch123> TrueBrain: if you think c++ people can do c, then you never saw a c++ guy trying to use zero-terminated strings or data 20:11:13 <TrueBrain> owh, char[] ofc 20:11:14 <LordAro> might have been worthwhile 20 years ago 20:11:15 <TrueBrain> fair point 20:11:19 <TrueBrain> if you only ever used std::string 20:11:21 <LordAro> but C++ has moved on 20:11:34 <TrueBrain> okay, I will adjust my opinion now :D 20:11:34 <FLHerne> Well, unfortunately almost all of C is a subset of C++, so you really can't learn the latter without the former 20:11:38 * FLHerne looks at grfcodec 20:11:40 <TrueBrain> C++ people are just an island :P 20:12:14 <frosch123> TrueBrain: for some reason i had to deal with multiple people who implemented some serialisation-like code in c++. they are wrote unterminated strings, and were confused that the decoding failed 20:12:38 <TrueBrain> I guess you also have to know less and less what pointers really are? 20:12:49 <TrueBrain> "the compiler warns you if I have to add a &"? :D 20:13:09 <TrueBrain> in Rust, you mostly need to understand when it copies and when it doesn't (by-ref or by-value, basically) 20:13:13 <TrueBrain> which is pretty nice 20:13:51 <LordAro> TrueBrain: tbf, a lot of my Rust is adding & or * until it works 20:13:59 <TrueBrain> to give an example that I as C programmer am like: WUTH?!, one that cracks me up: "for (auto &s : sockets) {" 20:14:12 <LordAro> ^^ 20:14:20 <TrueBrain> LordAro: not saying it isn't, most mentioning you no longer need to understand pointers and memory allocation really :) 20:14:35 <LordAro> that's fair, yeah 20:14:50 <TrueBrain> well, you have lifetime in return for that, but okay 20:15:30 <TrueBrain> owh, one I ran into with emscripten that made me look up what was going on: "for (ContentInfo *ci : *cv) delete ci;" 20:16:10 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i designed the programming test for the job interview at my old company. https://dpaste.org/O4zM was one of the tests 20:16:25 <frosch123> all tests were added due to experience with previous hires 20:16:39 <TrueBrain> wow ..., that is a nice test, honestly :) 20:17:37 <frosch123> there were plenty of people who worked for > 5 years, and still failed it 20:17:43 * LordAro tells the Big Boss that to run a powershell script he needs to not quote the filename 20:17:59 <frosch123> they just write A, and when it crashes they ask a coworker 20:18:13 <TrueBrain> null pointer exception, enjoy debugging :D 20:18:22 <TrueBrain> and if you don't know, it is really difficult to know what is causing it 20:18:33 <TrueBrain> you really have to understand pointers, stack, etc 20:18:36 <frosch123> TrueBrain: not null pointer, uninitialised pointer :) 20:18:41 <LordAro> frosch123: depends on the function ! 20:18:42 <TrueBrain> if it is on the stack it is 0 :P 20:18:55 <TrueBrain> if it is in the heap ... well, yes :) 20:18:57 <LordAro> some functions would initialise the pointer for you ;) 20:19:16 <frosch123> since when are stack variables zero initialised? 20:19:22 <frosch123> is that some security compiler option? 20:20:27 <FLHerne> People fail this? I should apply for some C jobs :p 20:20:44 <TrueBrain> frosch123: no, you are right; it is only true for static variables ofc :) 20:20:51 <TrueBrain> what ever went into the bss :) 20:21:07 <LordAro> FLHerne: is that really what you want though? :p 20:21:10 <frosch123> yeah, the program loaded zeros stuff :) 20:21:11 <TrueBrain> so non-static globals are 0 too 20:21:23 <TrueBrain> which is a lovely mindfuck sometimes .. people moving a global to a local 20:21:26 <TrueBrain> and poef, it is no longer 0 20:22:05 <frosch123> FLHerne: you get that at any company older than 30 years 20:22:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] jostephd commented on pull request #8278: Feature: tiles/day velocity unit https://git.io/JLndL 20:23:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8387: Change: send network error to the server before making an emergency save https://git.io/JLsmp 20:23:29 <frosch123> TrueBrain: what is a non-static global? did you mean non-const? 20:23:41 *** k-man has quit IRC 20:23:50 <TrueBrain> "int a;" outside a function 20:23:59 <TrueBrain> not the word "static" in front of it :) 20:24:10 <frosch123> ah, so an external variable 20:24:34 <frosch123> but static and external have the same initialisation 20:24:38 <TrueBrain> no, not external 20:24:40 <TrueBrain> non-static :) 20:24:49 <TrueBrain> they don't have to be defined anywhere else 20:25:00 <TrueBrain> what is that online compiler thing LordAro ? :) 20:25:04 <frosch123> godbolt 20:25:19 <frosch123> https://godbolt.org/ 20:25:20 <FLHerne> LordAro: Yeah, C code generally does interesting stuff 20:25:37 <TrueBrain> https://godbolt.org/z/43h53G 20:25:44 <TrueBrain> non-static global, is what I mean :) 20:25:54 <TrueBrain> no clue if it is also external btw .. might :P 20:25:56 <LordAro> godbolt is love, godbolt is life 20:25:59 <TrueBrain> but there is no "extern" there too 20:26:06 <LordAro> FLHerne: you're not wrong there 20:26:13 <frosch123> TrueBrain: it is "extern" 20:26:20 <TrueBrain> but not defined anywhere 20:26:24 <TrueBrain> weeeiiirrrrddddd 20:26:25 <frosch123> "extern" is the default for global scope 20:26:37 <TrueBrain> I always learned you had to define an "extern" variable too :P 20:26:46 <frosch123> TrueBrain: ok, you only defined it :) 20:26:48 <TrueBrain> https://godbolt.org/z/344cz9 20:26:51 <TrueBrain> doesn't compile :( 20:27:16 <TrueBrain> but anyway, that type of global :D 20:27:24 <frosch123> yes, but that is also zero 20:27:30 <TrueBrain> yup 20:27:32 <TrueBrain> but ... 20:27:37 <TrueBrain> https://godbolt.org/z/6rEraY 20:27:41 <TrueBrain> doesn't -have to- 20:27:51 <TrueBrain> (is in this way of using, as .. stack is zero'd) 20:28:07 <TrueBrain> (at startup) 20:28:09 <TrueBrain> mostly :P 20:28:11 <TrueBrain> depends on compiler 20:28:12 <TrueBrain> :D 20:28:18 <TrueBrain> okay, this C nonsense has to stop! 20:28:29 <frosch123> well, i still disagree with you 20:28:53 <TrueBrain> on startup, the memory is most of the time wiped 20:29:00 <TrueBrain> I don't mean that the stack is zero'd on call 20:29:21 <LordAro> std::unique_ptr<User> tb = std::make_unique(TrueBrain); 20:29:33 <frosch123> it's not "most of the time". the linker explicitly states what memory sections to load from disk, and which to zero 20:29:34 <TrueBrain> I mean, run the above godbolt as often as you want 20:29:45 <TrueBrain> well, I don't know if the compiler optimizes this :D 20:29:58 <frosch123> run ldd on your exectuable, and it will tell you 20:30:02 <TrueBrain> we say the same thing I think frosch123 :) 20:31:45 <TrueBrain> https://godbolt.org/z/rddsca <- this "b" is non-zero, to be clear :D 20:32:46 <frosch123> https://godbolt.org/z/4Pn9ff <- but this one is 20:32:56 <TrueBrain> static locals are, yes :) 20:33:36 <TrueBrain> but I mentioned that 10 minutes ago :) As I said, we mean the same thing, but something something, language :) 20:35:03 <frosch123> https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/storage_duration <- problem is that "static" means a lot of things. but stuf with "static storage duration" is initialised, independent of internal/external linkage 20:36:05 <TrueBrain> either way, it gives a lot of lovely bugs if people are like: this code can be made easier! And move around variables and/or add static ... it is fun :D 20:36:08 <TrueBrain> it makes C interesting! 20:37:19 <TrueBrain> can godbolt also show what it put in what segment, like bss, data, etc? 20:37:28 <TrueBrain> or is b.0 just bss, etc? 20:38:00 <frosch123> haha, the worst bug i ever found was: programmer A copies a checksum/hash-algorithm from a textbook somewhen in early 90s. it's that kind of algorith that shifts and ors bytes while doing modulo with a prime 20:38:34 <frosch123> then programmer B comes around: this modulo is slow, i move it outside the loop. i am so proud of this optimisation that i put my name into the code 20:39:02 <frosch123> (hint: this "optimisation" made the checksum/hash only consider the last 8 bytes) 20:39:09 <TrueBrain> and the "module" was no longer prime :P 20:39:27 <frosch123> nah, they did not change to modulo 20:39:39 <TrueBrain> I meant byte-wrapping as "module" :) 20:39:45 <TrueBrain> byte-overflow? 20:40:27 <frosch123> they just did "result = 0; for (b : buffer) { result = result << 8 | b } return result % magic;" 20:40:56 <TrueBrain> my "joke" was that it still does module, only with UINT32_MAX :P 20:41:07 <TrueBrain> or-what-ever-the-size-is 20:41:12 <frosch123> too complicated for me :) 20:41:19 <TrueBrain> yeah, I am sorry :) 20:41:48 <frosch123> but they had already left the company, so i could not confront them :) 20:42:07 <TrueBrain> but this is why I like C! 20:42:27 <TrueBrain> it is easier to make bugs :P C++ starts to warn you about it 20:42:32 <TrueBrain> "did you mean blablabla" 20:42:34 <TrueBrain> well, not in your example 20:42:35 <glx> C can do nasty things :) 20:42:37 <TrueBrain> but you get what I mean :) 20:42:56 <glx> especially when you don't know what you're doing 20:44:01 <TrueBrain> (okay, in all fairness, I hate that I never learnt C++, and never took the time to learn it; but sssttttt) 20:44:01 <glx> c++ does minimum checking 20:44:40 <glx> oh I still don't fully understand templates (I can't read yapf) 20:44:49 <TrueBrain> NOBODY can read YAPF 20:44:52 <TrueBrain> it ... exists 20:44:55 <TrueBrain> and therefor it is 20:45:51 <glx> but many c++ things are not too hard to read 20:45:58 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 20:46:10 <TrueBrain> reading is fine, the writing is the problem 20:46:17 <TrueBrain> like ... how do you come up with it :P 20:46:53 <glx> usually I open cppreference, and look for something in std that could work 20:47:39 <glx> I'm still surprised there's no getopt stuff in std c++ 20:47:40 <TrueBrain> you have all those "for" constructs, "const" is used a lot more in many .. weird ways, by-value calls are more common, which are not always by-value, it is really confusing to me :D 20:47:43 *** DasPoseidon has joined #openttd 20:47:44 <TrueBrain> but so was erlang :P 20:48:45 <TrueBrain> ever tried Erlang frosch123 ? I am really curious if you can write Erlang :D 20:51:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8386: Change: extend the allowed range for max loan setting https://git.io/JLnAl 20:51:09 <frosch123> no, but i think my brother had a university teacher who was involved with that 20:51:26 <TrueBrain> I noticed my brain cannot think in a function construct 20:51:38 <frosch123> but i got the impression that none of the students took him serious while talking about it 20:51:39 <TrueBrain> which is funny to me, as it shows limits of my brain :) 20:51:47 <frosch123> or maybe that was just my brother 20:51:54 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/rocky-linux/rocky <- well, that did not take long .. founder of CentOS makes CentOS alternative ... 20:52:05 <frosch123> TrueBrain: clojure is the hipster functional language 20:52:37 <TrueBrain> owh, my bad .. 20:52:39 <TrueBrain> I just gave up on it 20:52:53 <frosch123> huh? what changed with centos? isn't "centos" just redhat without support? 20:53:02 *** Speeder has joined #openttd 20:53:17 <TrueBrain> you missed the CentOS QQ? 20:53:24 <frosch123> yes 20:53:26 <TrueBrain> owh, the read ... let me see if I can still find the articles 20:53:47 <TrueBrain> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25345428 20:53:55 <TrueBrain> in other words: CentOS is dead 20:53:59 <TrueBrain> CentOS Stream is ... "something" 20:54:36 <TrueBrain> or https://www.servethehome.com/red-hat-goes-full-ibm-and-says-farewell-to-centos/ 20:54:39 <TrueBrain> has pictures 20:56:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8386: Change: extend the allowed range for max loan setting https://git.io/JLnx3 20:56:36 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8386: Change: extend the allowed range for max loan setting https://git.io/JL3Mx 20:57:13 <TrueBrain> people went completely apeshit over this, it was so much fun :D 20:57:31 <TrueBrain> so a reboot of CentOS is just hilarious :) 20:58:14 <frosch123> ok, so centos is mysql, and rocky is the new mariadb? 20:58:24 <TrueBrain> it seems so :D 20:58:27 <TrueBrain> nice comparison :) 20:58:48 <frosch123> well, someone has to annoy me about making stuff that that compiles with gcc 4.8 20:59:11 *** Speeder_ has quit IRC 20:59:13 <TrueBrain> why .. is someone still using 4.8? 20:59:18 <TrueBrain> do we want to know? :D 20:59:51 <frosch123> 4.8 is the standard compiler on centos/rhel 7 21:00:02 <Samu> Quick question: are you planning to release 1.10.4 soon or not really? Asking because I could use AIPriorityQueue on my AI 21:00:03 <frosch123> (maybe i confuse it with 6, but pretty sure it is 7) 21:00:10 <TrueBrain> https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/gcc-4.8 <- it is still in bionic :o 21:00:32 <frosch123> it just about supports c++11, though not officially 21:00:49 <TrueBrain> dammnnnnn 21:01:29 <TrueBrain> CentOS 6 uses GCC 4, it seems .. 21:01:30 <TrueBrain> damn 21:01:41 <frosch123> i like to say: comparing windows with linux is hard :) debian is 5 years ahead of windows, but rhel is 10 years behind debian, so 5 years behind windows 21:01:50 <TrueBrain> CentOS 7 too 21:02:10 <TrueBrain> haha :) 21:02:11 <frosch123> centos 7 is about windows vista. it comes with a completely broken gnome 21:02:19 <TrueBrain> I tend to forgot how "stable" CentOS is, with a cost :) 21:02:34 <frosch123> though i am not sure whether gnome 3 exists in any other state than "completely broken" 21:02:37 <TrueBrain> (it really is stable btw, that "" was not to insult the stableness) 21:02:44 <TrueBrain> haha 21:02:52 <glx> stability is nice, but sometimes it's too much 21:03:09 <TrueBrain> it reminds me of those server-graphs, of which one was "uptime" 21:03:14 <TrueBrain> in early 2000 that was common 21:03:20 <TrueBrain> my server is up for 3 years now! 21:03:23 <TrueBrain> like .... not something to be happy about 21:03:40 <TrueBrain> CentOS feels like that for me :) 21:03:40 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i would have less issues with it, if people would use it only for servers without frontend 21:03:51 <TrueBrain> wait, CentOS has another market ? 21:03:57 <TrueBrain> I thought it was only for servers :P 21:04:00 <frosch123> but for some reason companies get the idea that software should be developed on desktops using the same os version as the servers 21:04:11 <TrueBrain> owh my .... 21:04:13 <frosch123> and there is probably no worse choice than centos for a desktop 21:04:26 <glx> poor users 21:04:33 <TrueBrain> well, I am slowly looking around what my new challenge in life is going to be, and I would hate to find myself joining such company :p 21:04:36 <frosch123> (rhel on customer servers, centos in-house) 21:04:41 <TrueBrain> I should make a list of questions which makes them go: WTF DUDE?! 21:05:01 <TrueBrain> "Which OS do your workstations use?" 21:05:04 <frosch123> TrueBrain: do you want the job at that insurance company that i declined? 21:05:06 <TrueBrain> sounds like a good question to ask :D 21:05:10 <TrueBrain> no 21:05:16 <TrueBrain> :D I don't want your seconds :P 21:05:22 <frosch123> it's well payed, you only have to work 2 hours a day, and pretend the other 6 21:05:32 <TrueBrain> is it that bad? Haha :) 21:06:10 <TrueBrain> I am honestly really annoyed by the amount of places you can apply to ... in the range I am looking for (km away from home, salary, role), there are over 300 jobs I can apply to 21:06:13 <TrueBrain> like .. this is insane 21:06:15 <frosch123> they were a team of 8 who maintained their in-house insurance management, written in pl1, running on ibm mainframe 21:06:25 <frosch123> (i went there for the lolz, just to have seen it) 21:06:29 <TrueBrain> AS/400? Riigggghhhhhttttt 21:06:46 <TrueBrain> walk .. away .... slowly ... :D 21:06:59 <frosch123> but as i discovered: the whole thing is probably less complex than bananas. you can probably rewrite everything in 6 months in python, and make those 8 fools unemployed 21:07:10 <TrueBrain> haha :D 21:07:13 <TrueBrain> that is evil :P 21:07:29 <TrueBrain> and quit right after 21:08:04 <frosch123> i expected some things when i accepted the interview invitation :) but i did not expect them to do almost nothing 21:08:30 <TrueBrain> as long as everyone joins that doing nothing, it is pretty self sustaining :) 21:08:34 <TrueBrain> I really could not work there ... 21:08:40 <TrueBrain> like .. I would be really annoyed every fucking single day 21:08:43 <frosch123> i kept asking them, what makes their software complex 21:09:09 <frosch123> and their answer was: we have to support all insurance policies that ever existed. but that turned out to be about 20 21:09:58 <TrueBrain> only 20?! 21:10:05 <TrueBrain> well, I know insurance shit is complex 21:10:12 <TrueBrain> but ... 8 FTE complex? 21:10:44 <frosch123> no, it's not complex. it's just that they are all hobby programmers, using tools from 40 years ago 21:11:30 <frosch123> their biggest fear is the december of every year. because then they have to process the annual letters to everyone 21:12:09 <frosch123> oh, i forgot to mention: i would have been the youngest in the team :p 21:12:43 <TrueBrain> yeah, I can see that 21:12:46 <TrueBrain> that explains a lot 21:12:56 <TrueBrain> you are, what, 50 now; so yeah, that makes sense :P 21:13:05 <TrueBrain> (sorry, I had to make an insult to someone this hour; it was too long) 21:13:53 <frosch123> when i am 50, you are 49 21:14:02 <TrueBrain> dammit :( It came right back at me! :P 21:14:03 <TrueBrain> :D 21:14:14 <TrueBrain> did you had to lookup my age first? :D 21:14:26 <frosch123> yes, i only know rb's by heart 21:14:34 <TrueBrain> about the same, all I know 21:14:45 <TrueBrain> all our oldies are from around the same age :P 21:15:33 <frosch123> usually the birthyear is a random number. but in case of rb it had meaning 21:15:45 <TrueBrain> same as yours, I assume? :D 21:16:10 <frosch123> no, so you do not know rb's year? 21:16:15 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 21:16:22 <TrueBrain> I am REALLY horrible at remembering such details 21:16:31 <Samu> i'm confused about something on Bananas 21:16:39 <frosch123> look up rb in the element table. it's the element number 21:16:49 <Samu> on Dependencies, it asks for an Id 21:17:01 <TrueBrain> haha, okay, I would NOT have made that connection 21:17:04 <TrueBrain> that is sweet frosch123 :D 21:17:05 <TrueBrain> nice :) 21:17:14 <Samu> what do i input there? 21:17:17 <Samu> ai-library/5343504c/e1940278 21:17:25 <Samu> or just 5343504c 21:17:37 <frosch123> well, rb pointed that out somewhen. since then i know the element number of rb 21:18:21 <frosch123> those two things hold together. i would have forgotten each one, if they had not been connected :) 21:18:47 <frosch123> oh, it's the Element weight, not the element number 21:19:32 <frosch123> he's not that old :p 21:19:33 <TrueBrain> haha, I was about to mention .. 37 sounds off :P 21:19:39 <TrueBrain> I remember him being a lot younger :D 21:20:35 <TrueBrain> awh, he did not even fill it in on his Wiki page :P 21:21:03 <andythenorth> bring back rb 21:21:05 <andythenorth> and yexo 21:21:18 <andythenorth> why do people need jobs so much? :P 21:21:22 <frosch123> yeah, yexo vanished right away, when the new job started 21:21:34 <TrueBrain> new jobs tend to do that with you 21:21:47 <TrueBrain> this is why I am resisting finding one :D :D :D 21:22:22 <andythenorth> patreon 21:22:24 <andythenorth> for devs :P 21:22:37 <TrueBrain> it really is too bad that it is hard to make money in Open Source, honestly 21:22:42 <andythenorth> it would be less fun if it was work, right? 21:22:47 <TrueBrain> like for libraries and applications others use .. there is room 21:22:48 *** k-man has joined #openttd 21:22:50 <TrueBrain> for a game like OpenTTD? Fuck no :) 21:22:51 <andythenorth> like the factorio lead who got totally burnt out 21:23:05 <Samu> nevermind, I figured it out 21:23:06 <andythenorth> factorio, mashinsky etc have made businesses out of it 21:23:11 <andythenorth> but that's.....work 21:23:19 <TrueBrain> and not Open Source :P 21:23:22 <frosch123> maybe we can find a rich wife for tb? 21:23:31 <TrueBrain> haha :D 21:23:35 <andythenorth> Doom got ID rich on open source 21:23:40 <andythenorth> different times 21:23:45 <TrueBrain> like if you could work 1 or 2 days a week, paid, on a game like this? That is nice 21:23:58 <andythenorth> do we all have to pay for RHEL now? 21:24:04 <andythenorth> open source :P 21:24:15 <TrueBrain> "Open Source" you mean :) 21:24:44 <andythenorth> more speech quotes 21:24:54 <TrueBrain> owh well, in IT, it is more like: get a job that pays well, retire early, right? :) 21:25:37 <andythenorth> ha ha ha ha ha 21:25:46 * andythenorth has NFI 21:26:33 <TrueBrain> all energy companies in The Netherlands are looking for Architects 21:26:39 <TrueBrain> and one thing that stands out 21:26:44 <TrueBrain> their conditions are insanely good 21:27:05 <TrueBrain> you get N% a month to spend how ever you like .. either money, days off, training, .. 21:27:10 <andythenorth> technical architects? 21:27:21 <TrueBrain> all kinds, from Software, Solution all the way to Enterprise 21:27:24 <TrueBrain> but technical, yes 21:27:27 <TrueBrain> not presales :) 21:27:36 <andythenorth> but not drawing houses 21:27:43 <frosch123> energy companies? enexis or something else? 21:27:49 <TrueBrain> yeah 21:27:53 <TrueBrain> and our main grid supplier 21:27:57 <TrueBrain> they all have job openings 21:28:04 <TrueBrain> booming business, it seems 21:28:16 <andythenorth> same here 21:28:26 <andythenorth> domestic suppliers, wind suppliers 21:28:35 <TrueBrain> like, I found 4 of them on the first page of a joblisting site .. 21:28:38 <TrueBrain> out of 20 21:28:45 * andythenorth knows where there's a sec ops job :P 21:28:45 <andythenorth> oof 21:28:58 <TrueBrain> nobody wants to work outside the EU andythenorth :) 21:29:05 <andythenorth> there is that 21:29:23 <frosch123> well, if a company has many job offerings, that means it's a bad company, that noone wants to join, and many quit 21:29:34 <TrueBrain> sometimes :) 21:29:37 <frosch123> "too many open positions" is a bad sign 21:29:40 <TrueBrain> sometimes it just means they are expanding :) 21:29:52 <TrueBrain> but it is not that 1 company has many job openings 21:30:01 <TrueBrain> no, all the energy companies have job openings for architects :) 21:30:12 <TrueBrain> I think "all" is fair .. found 5 now :) 21:30:18 <frosch123> when i was searching, i also crossed every company from the list, that was looking for people with skills in blockchain :p 21:30:20 <TrueBrain> owh, 6 21:30:29 <andythenorth> sometimes it's just expansion 21:30:31 <TrueBrain> haha, yes, that is a big nono :) 21:30:40 <andythenorth> are we on the blockchain yet? 21:31:03 <frosch123> "blockchain" is code for "out managemant has no clue" 21:31:20 <TrueBrain> not only do they have no clue, they also push through bullshit to their underlings 21:31:25 <TrueBrain> which scares the shit out of me :P 21:31:29 *** Speeder has quit IRC 21:31:38 * andythenorth awaits the blockchain 21:31:47 <andythenorth> what even is though? 21:31:50 <TrueBrain> well, do it right and you be rich :) 21:32:08 <andythenorth> decentralised immutable public registers 21:32:14 <andythenorth> don't seem like a terrible idea 21:32:24 <andythenorth> except...if you rewrite the history 21:32:32 <TrueBrain> blockchain is to me like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sloot_Digital_Coding_System 21:32:56 <TrueBrain> if you have a great pitch, a good way to make a lot of money 21:33:01 <andythenorth> remarkable story 21:33:27 <andythenorth> oh does he just precompute them all, then store a key in 8KB? 21:33:43 <TrueBrain> he just never did it, at all 21:33:53 <TrueBrain> don't overthink this :D 21:34:06 <andythenorth> BUT I WANT IT TO BE TRUE 21:34:20 <TrueBrain> well, you can encode 256 movies in a single byte 21:34:20 <andythenorth> then we can have streaming movies and stuff 21:34:24 <TrueBrain> that is not a problem AT ALL 21:34:32 <TrueBrain> so you have that, if you like 21:34:34 <andythenorth> then we could have grfs with movies playing 21:34:43 <andythenorth> grftoo 21:34:45 <andythenorth> oh 21:35:14 <TrueBrain> so many job offerings are behind a recruitment agency 21:35:16 <TrueBrain> like ... fuck off 21:35:21 <TrueBrain> tell me who you are, or get out 21:35:25 <TrueBrain> owh, lol, this is funny 21:35:37 <TrueBrain> Are you able to create a solid architecture of complex financial products using blockchain technologies? Can you survive in Amazon Web Services and/or Google Cloud Platforms? Please read further since we have a great opportunity for an experienced Blockchain Architect. 21:35:39 <TrueBrain> I FOUND ONE! 21:35:59 <TrueBrain> it is even a legit one :) 21:36:00 <TrueBrain> In this role you develop groundbreaking products from scratch. It is important that you have senior knowledge of Ethereum/Solidity, including demonstratable NFT implementations. You can create a solid architecture of complex financial products using blockchain technologies based on cloud environments connected to common backend technologies. 21:36:21 <TrueBrain> Our client is a ground breaking start-up in the blockchain community with a unique and game changing proposition. The company is currently now working with many freelancers but has the ambition to grow with permanent staff since their workload keeps growing. 21:36:22 <TrueBrain> The team is mixed with different genders, ages and ethnicities; everyone is welcome as long as you are qualified in your field and have experience in the blockchain world. The head quarter is based in the Utrecht region. 21:36:33 <TrueBrain> how cute .. startup looking for people .. 21:36:39 <TrueBrain> what, they want you to work for free for the first year? 21:36:45 <TrueBrain> AS THERE IS MUCH MONEY IF THEIR IDEA WORKS 21:37:07 <TrueBrain> Possibility to have tokens <- they are selling it now! 21:37:23 <TrueBrain> Vacation money <- OMG! They do the BARE MINIMUM mandatory by law! OMG! HOW NICE OF THEM 21:37:25 <TrueBrain> lolzzz 21:37:40 <FLHerne> Why stop at scamming the public when you can also scam your employees? 21:37:57 <TrueBrain> haha, I thought it was legit 21:37:58 <andythenorth> oof 21:38:02 <TrueBrain> turns out this too is a lot of hot air :) 21:38:04 <TrueBrain> sorry ..... :P 21:38:07 <andythenorth> I would see the lolz 21:38:11 <andythenorth> but it's all so weird 21:38:24 <andythenorth> twitter tells me nobody can get into the industry without a lot of life privilege 21:38:27 <glx> "ground breaking startup" <-- vaporware for me 21:38:31 <andythenorth> and everybody I know can't hire 21:39:22 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: well, as mentioned earlier .. in my bracket alone are 300+ job openings .. it is also very hard to find people at all 21:39:30 <andythenorth> very 21:40:26 <frosch123> TrueBrain: you should take an interview at a smaller company 21:40:52 <TrueBrain> I tend to find jobs at small companies :) 21:40:56 <frosch123> it's weird to have more experience in job interviews than the interviewer 21:41:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #8391: RFC: Feature: Public key company authorization https://git.io/JLnig 21:41:42 <andythenorth> https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/182001-moc-cutting-steel-with-a-lego-angle-grinder/ 21:41:58 *** DasPoseidon has quit IRC 21:41:59 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 21:42:34 <frosch123> TrueBrain: job interviews can be fun, just go to them, just to confirm your first opinion 21:42:41 <andythenorth> it's all remote now anyway 21:42:46 <_dp_> wait, some blockchain startups are still not dead yet? 21:42:51 <_dp_> or is it a new batch xD 21:42:59 <TrueBrain> well, currently I just have the issue that there are too many, and picking any is because of that rather hard :D 21:43:06 <TrueBrain> new batch, I am afraid :P 21:43:25 <andythenorth> offer paid OpenTTD support :P 21:43:30 <TrueBrain> Cloud Saves! 21:43:33 <TrueBrain> 1 euro a month! 21:43:36 <TrueBrain> profit goes to my pockets! 21:43:38 <TrueBrain> yes yes? :D 21:43:42 <andythenorth> shrug 21:43:46 <TrueBrain> (fuck no, btw, just to be clear) 21:43:55 <andythenorth> I think the lolz would wear off 21:44:01 <andythenorth> after you get paged a few times 21:44:09 <TrueBrain> pretty used to that, honestly :) 21:44:14 <TrueBrain> drives you to make sure it never goes down ;) 21:44:26 <TrueBrain> I had my 0100 calls to get in a car and drive 30km to a datacenter 21:44:40 <TrueBrain> to unplug and replug a server 21:44:42 <TrueBrain> and drive back :P 21:44:59 <andythenorth> customer DNS is the least lolz of the pages 21:45:19 * _dp_ was quite surprised when I glanced over the irc window and saw "blockchain" 21:45:20 <andythenorth> nothing we can do but someone has to get paged because site is down 21:45:22 <TrueBrain> nice work on the coding style milek7 ! 21:45:22 <_dp_> thankfully unrelated xD 21:45:38 <TrueBrain> wait, we are not going to add blockchain to OpenTTD? 21:45:43 <TrueBrain> but how do we know you are you if we do not? 21:46:01 <_dp_> trust me, I am I :p 21:46:08 <TrueBrain> okay 21:46:09 <TrueBrain> :D 21:46:18 <TrueBrain> right, enough bullshit for 1 evening .. I did exactly nothing, which was nice 21:46:18 <andythenorth> we could put all the vehicles on a blockchain 21:46:28 <TrueBrain> night all 21:46:30 <andythenorth> bye 21:46:35 <andythenorth> game state via proof-of-work 21:46:36 <andythenorth> :P 21:46:37 <andythenorth> oof 21:46:44 <andythenorth> might hurt the FPS 21:49:00 <_dp_> might hurt humans :p 21:51:29 <Xaroth> Curious, if I were to rename a string in english.txt, does that need fixing in the other languages as well? or will eints be smart about that and pick that up? 21:52:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #8391: RFC: Feature: Public key company authorization https://git.io/JLnig 21:52:22 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:56:38 <frosch123> Xaroth: the STR_xyz is the identifier. if you remove one from english, eints will delete it from the other languages 21:56:57 <Xaroth> How about renaming, frosch123? 21:56:58 <frosch123> eints does not try to detect renaming STR_x ro STR_y 21:57:07 <frosch123> it will delete all STR_x 21:57:39 <Xaroth> does eints pick it up if I rename them in all languages? 21:57:48 <Xaroth> or will that have no use? 21:58:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #8391: RFC: Feature: Public key company authorization https://git.io/JLnig 21:58:02 <frosch123> yes, but it will be a "delete x, add y". so "y" will be a new string 21:58:10 <frosch123> "old translations" will be forgotten 21:58:44 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 22:02:35 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:04:18 <frosch123> night 22:04:21 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:11:39 *** rptr_ has joined #openttd 22:16:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Xaroth opened pull request #8392: CargoSpec array cleanup https://git.io/JLcIZ 22:22:33 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 22:26:48 *** HerzogDeXtEr2 has joined #openttd 22:27:47 *** rptr_ has quit IRC 22:28:43 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 22:32:53 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 22:35:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Xaroth updated pull request #8392: CargoSpec array cleanup https://git.io/JLcIZ 22:44:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr2 has quit IRC 22:56:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #8391: RFC: Feature: Public key company authorization https://git.io/JLnig 23:02:17 <LordAro> Xaroth: i'd prefer candyfloss over cotton candy 23:02:28 <LordAro> cotton candy is disturbingly... american 23:03:35 <LordAro> Xaroth: also, if i wanted to be super anally retentive, i'd say the renaming should be in separate commit 23:05:05 *** gelignite has quit IRC 23:06:18 <Xaroth> The renaming of all other languages is in a separate commit 23:06:29 <Xaroth> I tried to keep the commits.. build-able 23:07:34 <Xaroth> but that said, if the consensus is to use another name, that's easily doable :P 23:08:04 *** Lejving_ has joined #openttd 23:08:20 <Xaroth> I need to somehow trick TrueBrain to look at it as well when he's less asleep :P 23:09:21 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:12:10 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 23:12:23 <Xaroth> but if we do change it, Candy should become sweets as well, to match English.txt better 23:12:56 *** Lejving__ has joined #openttd 23:14:33 *** Lejving has quit IRC 23:18:07 *** Lejving_ has quit IRC 23:30:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8392: CargoSpec array cleanup https://git.io/JLcsK 23:32:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #8391: RFC: Feature: Public key company authorization https://git.io/JLnig 23:40:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #8391: RFC: Feature: Public key company authorization https://git.io/JLnig