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00:09:41 *** rptr_ has quit IRC 00:22:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8538: Remove: warning in cheat window https://git.io/JLp7t 00:23:54 <TrueBrain> What value does it carry? 00:24:23 <TrueBrain> I couldn't come up with a reason why we want to tell it that explicit :p 00:25:01 <TrueBrain> And it is waaayyyy to big for the screen and what it does 00:25:27 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 00:25:28 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 00:25:40 <TrueBrain> Dunno, feels like we giving it too much value 00:26:00 <LordAro> maybe, but it is an action that "cannot be undone" 00:26:14 <LordAro> users should be suitably warned about that 00:26:30 <TrueBrain> I noticed I never read the sentence :l 00:26:47 <LordAro> of course not, you probably wrote it originally :p 00:26:54 <LordAro> or had a hand in it 00:26:58 <TrueBrain> So if that is the goal, not sure we succeeded 00:27:08 <TrueBrain> Nah, it is the UI pattern used 00:27:28 <TrueBrain> Maybe a popup when you first use it, but also feels like too much 00:27:54 <TrueBrain> I will toy a bit with it tomorrow, see if it can be a bit more useful and friendly 00:28:41 <TrueBrain> I even considered removing the "we remember what you did" 00:28:50 <TrueBrain> But for debugging it tends to be useful 00:31:03 <TrueBrain> Now first, zzzzzzzz 00:32:14 *** tokai has quit IRC 00:37:54 *** Smedles has quit IRC 00:38:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe commented on pull request #7286: Add #2155: newheightmapgame command https://git.io/JLp7n 00:38:51 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 00:48:54 *** nielsm has quit IRC 00:51:50 *** DasPoseidon has quit IRC 01:21:31 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 01:30:51 *** _2TallTyler has quit IRC 01:34:12 *** Progman has quit IRC 01:49:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber opened pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLpdb 01:49:52 <Timberwolf> oops, I broke it :( 02:31:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kiwitreekor commented on issue #8506: Town builds unnecessary junctions on highway https://git.io/JLN40 02:38:21 <reldred> Okay, that multi tile depots patch is kinda cool 02:38:57 <reldred> Building a four wide tram depot and unleashing a dozen trams at once and watching them all roll out side by side 02:49:15 *** DasPoseidon has joined #openttd 03:07:04 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 03:08:29 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 03:14:45 *** debdog has joined #openttd 03:15:40 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 03:18:08 *** D-HUND has quit IRC 04:14:53 *** glx has quit IRC 04:33:54 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 04:35:05 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 04:37:22 *** ekangmonyet_ has joined #openttd 04:41:46 *** ekangmonyet has quit IRC 04:54:55 *** roadt_ has joined #openttd 05:01:36 *** roadt__ has quit IRC 06:03:35 *** tejanos has joined #openttd 06:43:35 *** roadt_ has quit IRC 06:44:10 *** roadt_ has joined #openttd 07:15:35 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:18:57 <andythenorth> yo 07:24:35 *** roadt_ has quit IRC 07:27:43 *** roadt_ has joined #openttd 07:43:11 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 07:51:59 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 08:05:25 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 08:06:09 *** heffer has quit IRC 08:31:52 *** tejanos has quit IRC 08:56:41 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 09:04:42 *** roadt__ has joined #openttd 09:05:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8538: Remove: warning in cheat window https://git.io/JLhJY 09:05:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8535: Fix #8506: Towns shouldn't add junctions to NewGRF roads they cannot build https://git.io/JLhJO 09:06:36 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8506: Town builds unnecessary junctions on highway https://git.io/JLN40 09:06:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8535: Fix #8506: Towns shouldn't add junctions to NewGRF roads they cannot build https://git.io/JLpyz 09:07:21 *** roadt_ has quit IRC 09:09:39 *** roadt_ has joined #openttd 09:11:34 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 09:14:36 *** roadt__ has quit IRC 09:22:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8538: Remove: warning in cheat window https://git.io/JLhJ6 09:25:12 <andythenorth> issue count 88 09:25:19 <andythenorth> visually pleasing number, please maintain 09:25:44 <andythenorth> WHO HAS ADDED PRS OVERNIGHT? 09:25:45 <TrueBrain> haha 09:25:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8538: Remove: warning in cheat window https://git.io/JLpSx 09:26:17 <TrueBrain> better question: why did nobody review during the night? Unacceptable :P 09:27:38 <andythenorth> https://twitter.com/PHP_CEO/status/1169920906317238272 09:27:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8539: Graph Window - Colors of the mauve, dark green and purple companies are barely visible https://git.io/JLpHF 09:28:51 <TrueBrain> and you only hope he is joking :) 09:30:21 <andythenorth> "Too many files at address 01A2: 4233" 09:30:24 <andythenorth> oof 09:30:32 * andythenorth was playing https://classicreload.com/drug-wars.html 09:33:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8535: Fix #8506: Towns shouldn't add junctions to NewGRF roads they cannot build https://git.io/JLhUI 09:34:52 <TrueBrain> that seems reasonable 09:37:37 <andythenorth> I probably need to set aside my NRT regrets 09:37:47 <andythenorth> we 're not going to remove it now eh :| 09:38:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8541: Revert 78f92130: "Fix #8506: Towns shouldn't add junctions to NewGRF roads they cannot build" https://git.io/JLhU8 09:39:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8535: Fix #8506: Towns shouldn't add junctions to NewGRF roads they cannot build https://git.io/JLhUR 09:40:51 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 09:41:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8541: Revert 78f92130: "Fix #8506: Towns shouldn't add junctions to NewGRF roads they cannot build" https://git.io/JLhU8 09:43:20 <TrueBrain> changing graph colours is surprisingly difficult :D I did not expect anything less ... 09:43:58 <andythenorth> is it directly the company colour? 09:44:08 <andythenorth> no intermediate table? 09:44:09 <TrueBrain> so each colour has these gradient colours .. where the ... is that documented :P 09:44:16 <TrueBrain> ^^ :P 09:44:46 <andythenorth> is it not just 'palette index + n'? 09:45:02 <TrueBrain> [3] is dark, [5] is medium_dark, [7] is light 09:45:15 <TrueBrain> there are snippets in the code which tell what the gradients are 09:45:24 <TrueBrain> there must be someone who made an image out of it, I am sure :D 09:45:51 <andythenorth> oh they're not just + n 09:45:55 <andythenorth> some ranges are special 09:46:21 <TrueBrain> there are 8 colours in a gradient per company colour 09:46:22 <andythenorth> this isn't quite what you need but gives clues https://github.com/frosch123/TTDViewer/blob/master/src/recolor.xml#L186 09:46:53 <andythenorth> I never found the actual definitions in openttd src 09:47:00 <andythenorth> I assume they're in openttd.grf somewhere 09:47:08 <TrueBrain> seems the higher the number, the lighter the colour 09:47:23 <TrueBrain> the palette itself is in one of the grf files, yes 09:47:24 <andythenorth> yes, they're palette indexes, and mostly the run dark->light 09:47:28 <TrueBrain> but I don't care about any of that :) 09:47:31 <andythenorth> but some of the ranges have 'surprise' in them 09:47:33 <TrueBrain> I just want to know what the gradient means :P 09:49:08 <andythenorth> you want indexes into the actual company ranges? Or just 'a bit darker/lighter than current choice'? 09:49:19 <TrueBrain> I want to know what the gradient looks like 09:49:29 <TrueBrain> that if I change the "6th" to the "5th", how much colours I change 09:49:31 <TrueBrain> for better or worse :) 09:49:44 <TrueBrain> basically, a PNG that puts the company colours on 1 axis and the gradient on the other :P 09:49:52 <TrueBrain> I am sure someone has that image, I just can't find it :D 09:50:31 <andythenorth> I could generate one if nobody has 09:50:39 <andythenorth> surprised if they haven't TBH 09:50:42 <TrueBrain> if that is not too much trouble, that would help 09:50:45 <TrueBrain> but I assume someone has it 09:50:48 <TrueBrain> the one in docs only shows 1 gradient 09:50:51 <TrueBrain> which is a bit silly :D 09:51:38 <andythenorth> I generate this from code, and I have all the company colour indexes as constants also https://github.com/andythenorth/iron-horse/blob/master/palette_key.png 09:52:27 <TrueBrain> that combined with the XML paints a picture 09:52:31 <TrueBrain> but a single one would be more useful to me :D 09:53:00 <TrueBrain> owh, one is hex, other is dec 09:53:01 <TrueBrain> that sucks :P 09:53:44 <andythenorth> yeah but I can adjust 09:56:55 <andythenorth> might take a bit of time, but worth having the image I think 09:57:19 <TrueBrain> sure someone has it already :P I just odn't know where :D 10:00:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8542: Change: use a darker gradient colour for company colours on graphs https://git.io/JLhUp 10:01:27 * andythenorth makes a thing 10:02:13 <TrueBrain> I guess I could render it ingame too; but that might be more effort :D 10:05:38 *** DasPoseidon has joined #openttd 10:11:34 <andythenorth> I will have something on AWS in 10 mins or so 10:11:40 <TrueBrain> \o/ 10:11:44 <TrueBrain> I am going to add it to the repo :P 10:12:03 <TrueBrain> hmm, my keyboard needs a clean .. letters are sticking 10:12:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8542: Change: use a darker gradient colour for company colours on graphs https://git.io/JLhTC 10:12:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8539: Graph Window - Colors of the mauve, dark green and purple companies are barely visible https://git.io/JLpHF 10:17:38 <LordAro> TrueBrain: ew 10:17:40 *** nielsm has quit IRC 10:18:04 <LordAro> my keyboard is bad, but it's not *that* bad :p 10:23:43 <andythenorth> slow upload is slow 10:23:59 <andythenorth> 5.5KB/s 10:24:00 <andythenorth> lol 10:25:45 <andythenorth> AWS wtf day :P 10:25:55 <andythenorth> my connection is 30Mb/s upload 10:28:52 <FLHerne> Some kind of soft rate-limit? 10:29:53 <andythenorth> pff dunno 10:31:50 <andythenorth> TrueBrain this is a hack inside the Iron Horse compile at the moment https://grf.farm/misc/company_colour_reference/html/company_colour_indexes.html 10:32:12 <andythenorth> I can strip it down to be self-contained like https://grf.farm/misc/industry_map_colours.html 10:38:14 *** Progman has joined #openttd 11:04:28 <TrueBrain> LordAro: the keyboard is almost 10 years old, give him a break :P 11:04:31 <TrueBrain> nice andythenorth :) Tnx! 11:04:49 <andythenorth> most of the time was formatting html tables :P 11:04:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8539: Graph Window - Colors of the mauve, dark green and purple companies are barely visible https://git.io/JLpHF 11:05:13 <TrueBrain> LordAro: now a quick approval on https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8541 as well, and I am a happy kid :D 11:13:08 * andythenorth had all the colours in scope for doing stupid stuff like https://grf.farm/misc/company_colour_reference/html/growler.html 11:13:23 <andythenorth> sometimes I have ideas about writing a newgrf generator 11:13:31 <andythenorth> then I remember 'lol' 11:14:10 <andythenorth> I think we could a lot more towards content previews on bananas though 11:14:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #8541: Revert 78f92130: "Fix #8506: Towns shouldn't add junctions to NewGRF roads they cannot build" https://git.io/JLhId 11:14:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8543: Fix #8272: vehicle destination text colour when mousing over https://git.io/JLhIN 11:14:20 <andythenorth> just not sure of the direction 11:14:27 <TrueBrain> tnx michi_cc_ :) 11:14:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8541: Revert 78f92130: "Fix #8506: Towns shouldn't add junctions to NewGRF roads they cannot build" https://git.io/JLhU8 11:14:59 <michi_cc> Huh, did I gain a _? My client doesn't show one. 11:15:06 <TrueBrain> no, it is my client 11:15:08 <TrueBrain> I am sorry :( 11:15:17 <TrueBrain> it remembers very old names, and tends not to notice they left the channel :P 11:15:30 <TrueBrain> andythenorth_corner <- is active in this channel, it claims 11:15:37 <michi_cc> No problem, I was just wondering because I have configured that as one of the possible alternate nicks. 11:16:11 <michi_cc> So I though something might have become unsync between client and bouncer. 11:16:19 <TrueBrain> I love to find a bug, open it, and see JGRPP already has a fix. It does require looking a bit further if there were follow-up fixes, but at least it is better than fixing it myself :) 11:16:28 <TrueBrain> nah, you're good :) 11:16:58 <TrueBrain> I am doing a lot of "git blame" lately, I have noticed :) 11:18:36 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8471: Fix #8462: Don't check whether to grow a town road on water https://git.io/JLQpH 11:18:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8462: Towns testing whether a road is allowed on a river tile return true https://git.io/JL9o3 11:19:28 <andythenorth> TrueBrain I do wonder if we are upstream or downstream to JGRPP now 11:19:33 <andythenorth> not trolling, quite serious 11:19:50 <TrueBrain> I think it is a useless question 11:20:26 <TrueBrain> I mean, the answer is pretty irrelevant, is it not? 11:21:17 <andythenorth> only relevant in that I am confused, it clearly doesn't matter in the real world 11:21:22 <andythenorth> onwards 11:21:52 <michi_cc> We are (and should be) downstream of many things, including, JGRPP. Tested things are always better than untested things. But as we also accept non JGRPP-things, we are also upstream as well. 11:22:20 <TrueBrain> basically, you have to define "upstream" and "downstream" :) 11:22:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8525: Server on MacOS is not sending ADMIN_PACKET_SERVER_WELCOME packet https://git.io/JLpsj 11:24:11 <TrueBrain> and I wouldn't have any idea what you are confused about :P You basically ask a question, without explaining why you ask it .. sounds familiar? :D :P :D 11:30:55 *** Samu has joined #openttd 11:31:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain reopened issue #8506: Town builds unnecessary junctions on highway https://git.io/JLN40 11:38:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #7869: The human-readable name of a cargo type can't be queried by AI/GS. https://git.io/Jed7d 11:42:01 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 11:42:02 *** hryniuk has joined #openttd 11:42:14 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 11:45:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #8506: Town builds unnecessary junctions on highway https://git.io/JLN40 11:49:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8544: Add: [Script] ScriptCargo::GetName, to get the human readable name of a cargo https://git.io/JLhtB 11:49:55 <TrueBrain> right, if everything gets reviewed, people fix the last thingies in their PRs, I think we have all I had planned for 1.11 done :) 11:53:56 <TrueBrain> oops, forgot lunch 12:11:43 *** ekangmonyet has joined #openttd 12:15:29 *** ekangmonyet_ has quit IRC 12:16:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened issue #8545: Debugging: There is no way to see road and rail type flags in game https://git.io/JLhqO 12:20:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8545: Debugging: There is no way to see road and rail type flags in game https://git.io/JLhqO 12:21:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #8545: Debugging: There is no way to see road and rail type flags in game https://git.io/JLhqO 12:23:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on issue #8539: Graph Window - Colors of the mauve, dark green and purple companies are barely visible https://git.io/JLpHF 12:25:45 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 12:30:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8461: Feature: Permanent rivers https://git.io/JLhmq 12:32:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8461: Feature: Permanent rivers https://git.io/JLhmm 12:33:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8461: Feature: Permanent rivers https://git.io/JLhm3 12:34:08 <TrueBrain> that makes sense 12:35:26 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 12:35:59 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 12:36:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8539: Graph Window - Colors of the mauve, dark green and purple companies are barely visible https://git.io/JLpHF 12:37:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8542: Change: use a darker gradient colour for company colours on graphs https://git.io/JLhmE 12:37:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #8542: Change: use a darker gradient colour for company colours on graphs https://git.io/JLhUp 12:37:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on issue #8545: Debugging: There is no way to see road and rail type flags in game https://git.io/JLhqO 12:40:35 <TrueBrain> hmm .. do rivers have a direction ... 12:43:01 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: I find it weird that the river-building tool isn't available 12:43:06 <FLHerne> I mean, why not? :p 12:43:18 <FLHerne> People do build artificial rivers in real life 12:43:30 <FLHerne> And it is really useful for the aesthetics 12:44:08 <TrueBrain> if even JGR doesn't enable it by default, that is already telling, tbh :D 12:44:36 <TrueBrain> currently, in my opinion, it is just a bit weird how rivers, canals and locks interact 12:44:46 <FLHerne> Why? 12:44:48 <TrueBrain> if you can put down rivers, what is the use of canals 12:44:53 <FLHerne> (other than locks being impractical) 12:44:59 <TrueBrain> well, that for locks 12:45:13 <FLHerne> To look like canals :p 12:45:27 <TrueBrain> but I don't know what the original intention of this all was 12:45:32 <TrueBrain> is done waayyyy after my time :P 12:46:10 <FLHerne> In 'realistic' games, it's often convenient to divert rivers a few tiles 12:46:27 <FLHerne> And it looks weird to have a tiny section of concrete-edged canal 12:46:32 <TrueBrain> yeah, well, I still stand by my suggestion: make rivers flow 12:46:38 <TrueBrain> which allow you to divert rivers fine 12:47:01 <TrueBrain> but in a way that makes a bit more sense game-play wise 12:47:05 <FLHerne> 'flow' as in they flood in another direction if you destroy them? 12:47:13 <FLHerne> That sounds like it would be a complete headache 12:47:24 <TrueBrain> well, that would require pressure; also a fun idea, but no :) 12:47:32 <FLHerne> People have tried to make flow-based river generation before, it never works very well 12:47:43 <TrueBrain> but in case you missed it: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8461#issuecomment-756432270 12:48:00 <FLHerne> Because the OTTD landscape has big expanses of flat tiles, so it's hard to pick a direction that really makes sense 12:48:13 <TrueBrain> the river generation as it is, is fine by me 12:48:21 <FLHerne> (and TGP doesn't generate things that work as drainage basins) 12:48:53 <FLHerne> I like both lighthouses and indestructible rivers for the same reason ;-) 12:49:11 <TrueBrain> it only works for certain playstyles 12:49:17 <TrueBrain> but that is a common issue for OpenTTD :) 12:49:28 <TrueBrain> we tend to shape the game to our own playstyle, including myself, which is dangerous :D 12:50:14 <TrueBrain> but again, I miss a bit of backstory about rivers and canals and such 12:50:28 <TrueBrain> to me, they look absolutely amazing, but game-play wise they lack something; not sure what that something is 12:50:49 <TrueBrain> they fit weirdly with the rest of OpenTTD 12:51:23 <TrueBrain> so do ships in general, btw 12:52:59 <TrueBrain> is river destruction bound to town rating? 12:55:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8461: Feature: Permanent rivers https://git.io/JLhYm 13:01:39 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 13:05:06 <LordAro> needs them realistic rivers that ic111(?) made 13:06:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8544: Add: [Script] ScriptCargo::GetName, to get the human readable name of a cargo https://git.io/JLhYg 13:06:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on issue #8545: Debugging: There is no way to see road and rail type flags in game https://git.io/JLhqO 13:12:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8461: Feature: Permanent rivers https://git.io/JLhYP 13:13:40 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8461: Feature: Permanent rivers https://git.io/JLhY1 13:18:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8544: Add: [Script] ScriptCargo::GetName, to get the human readable name of a cargo https://git.io/JLhtB 13:18:13 <TrueBrain> I forgot how stupid the "diff" of the regression is, really 13:22:05 <Samu> let me test 8544, i think the "human readable" is also language affected 13:22:53 <TrueBrain> or, you could read the PR description .. like ... it says so right there 13:23:39 <Samu> oh, so that's not a problem? 13:23:59 <TrueBrain> again, read the PR description; there are letters there for a reason :) 13:26:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8461: Feature: Permanent rivers https://git.io/JLhOm 13:26:59 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: I like your thinking, but that requires a lot of fluid mechanics :D 13:27:04 <TrueBrain> not a bad thing :P 13:27:10 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 13:27:27 <Samu> what about those languages with weird characters? 13:27:43 <TrueBrain> pretty sure you just offended 60% of the world population 13:28:40 <Samu> wow, it works, apparently 13:29:17 <LordAro> wow. 13:29:25 <TrueBrain> it is like .. it was intentional 13:29:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8544: Add: [Script] ScriptCargo::GetName, to get the human readable name of a cargo https://git.io/JLhO8 13:29:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure the number of people in the world who speak english is <20% 13:29:56 <Eddi|zuHause> and that's native AND forgeing language 13:29:59 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: well, I was referring to the ones not using latin-alphabet :P 13:30:23 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, that maybe doubles the number :p 13:30:27 <TrueBrain> as I am pretty sure Dutch doesn use "weird characters" :P 13:30:38 <TrueBrain> German on the other hand ...... ;) 13:30:43 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah ÿ is certainly not a weird character :p 13:30:48 <LordAro> wikipedia says "over 2 billion" 13:30:53 <TrueBrain> we don't have that in Dutch, not in the way you might think :) 13:31:00 <TrueBrain> we use ij, at best 13:31:01 <LordAro> which is >25% 13:31:17 <TrueBrain> I wouldn't even know how to produce an t with " on it 13:31:19 <TrueBrain> t = y 13:31:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8538: Remove: warning in cheat window https://git.io/JLhOR 13:31:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8538: Remove: warning in cheat window https://git.io/JLhOz 13:31:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not an expert, but i believe ÿ is a different spelling of ij 13:32:13 <TrueBrain> Dutch doesn't have y" 13:32:23 <milek7> TrueBrain: I just realized that security model as implemented in PR is broken when using same identity on multiple servers 13:32:24 <TrueBrain> not sure where you got that from ) 13:32:25 <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't know any dutch, really :) 13:32:34 <TrueBrain> well, lucky for you, I do! :P 13:32:47 <TrueBrain> we have y, if we borrowed the word from another language, or ij 13:33:13 <milek7> 1. victim secures their company on legitimate server with pubkey 13:33:13 <milek7> 2. attacker lures victim to connect to malicious server 13:33:13 <milek7> 3. malicious server simultaneously connects to legitimate server and proxies KEYAUTH packets 13:33:13 <milek7> 4. after KEYAUTH is completed malicious server is left with authorized socket and can access the company, profit 13:33:13 <milek7> so, either: we need to generate unique keypair for given host/port, or do secure key-exchage and encrypt/authenticate all communication 13:33:15 <TrueBrain> in class, when we learn about the german ss, we are like: what is this weird thing?! How do I type it on my keyboard? :P 13:33:16 <Eddi|zuHause> "Buchstabenfolge ij: Die Buchstabenfolge IJ, die beispielsweise im Niederländischen oder im Frühneuhochdeutschen vorkommt, wird bisweilen durch ein ÿ ersetzt, da dieses besonders in Handschriften oft genau gleich aussieht." 13:33:32 <Eddi|zuHause> it says so on wikipedia, it must be true 13:33:43 <TrueBrain> yeah ... I guess who-ever wrote that has never talked to any Dutch person before :P 13:33:55 <TrueBrain> long long long long ago we might have had that 13:34:02 <TrueBrain> but ... no; not even learnt in school for 40 years 13:34:12 <TrueBrain> (at least; don't know from before :P) 13:34:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8535: Fix #8506: Towns shouldn't add junctions to NewGRF roads they cannot build https://git.io/JLhOi 13:35:21 <Xaroth> Eddi|zuHause: you do know telling a Dutch person they speak German is a grave insult, right? 13:36:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Xaroth: a) when did i do that, and b) you know the words "Dutch" and "Deutsch" [=german] are effectively the same word? 13:36:37 <TrueBrain> always knew I was a hidden German :P 13:36:50 <milek7> or third option: client along with challenge signs server IP/port, and server verifies that. but this is complicated because server might not necessarily be aware of all addresses from what it is accessible 13:37:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8538: Remove: warning in cheat window https://git.io/JLpSx 13:37:55 <TrueBrain> milek7: I am way too busy with other things to process what you are saying, but I am not sure the scenario you put forth is a realistic one in the world of OpenTTD 13:38:40 <Samu> im not sure what return nullptr on squirrel will do, need to test that 13:38:52 <milek7> it's not too unrealistic 13:38:57 <milek7> if you set up eg. rcon access for you pubkey all is needed to compromise is to connect to malicious server 13:39:26 <TrueBrain> to connect to a malicious server that knows which server you have rcon access too 13:39:59 <milek7> yes 13:40:10 <TrueBrain> yeah, that is a pretty big if :) 13:40:22 <TrueBrain> nevertheless, I will look what you implemented and what you just said next week 13:40:27 <milek7> but that could be easy, by checking you nickname :P 13:40:31 <milek7> *your 13:40:39 <TrueBrain> how do you know based on my nickname what server I manage? :) 13:40:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber commented on pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLhOj 13:40:59 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: by bigdata meta analysis 13:41:13 <TrueBrain> and if someone puts in that much effort .... not sure anyone would for OpenTTD :) 13:41:24 <Samu> ah, it types out a weird null 13:41:29 <TrueBrain> anyway, without a CA, MITM attacks in general are not preventable, not really anyway 13:41:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't follow the topic, but that sounds like a bad attitude to security 13:41:50 <TrueBrain> but again, I need to read better what you wrote milek7 ; don't have the capacity for it atm :) 13:41:56 <TrueBrain> would you mind writing it in a gist, and sending that over? 13:42:01 <milek7> ok 13:42:04 <Samu> last cargo is an invalid cargo: https://i.imgur.com/mY9jQLT.png 13:42:16 <milek7> this isn't MITM attack really, you don't need to takeover victim network 13:42:17 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: security is never 100%. It is always a balance of risk 13:42:25 <TrueBrain> so it is perfectly in line with how you should approach security 13:42:59 <TrueBrain> milek7: fair 13:43:32 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. so you have a slider "more effort" and a result "more security", so you need a proper argument why the "more effort" doesn't result in "not enough 'more security'" 13:44:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8538: Remove: warning in cheat window https://git.io/JLh3L 13:45:30 <TrueBrain> frosch123: "over the first item", what do you mean? 13:46:05 <frosch123> i mean to replace header_height with WD_PAR_VSEP_NORMAL instead of 0 13:46:14 <frosch123> so the buttons do not touch the top of the panel 13:47:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber updated pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLpdb 13:50:40 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8538: Remove: warning in cheat window https://git.io/JLpSx 13:51:06 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I think I did this right :) 13:51:16 <TrueBrain> I only added it to the top, as the bottom already had sufficient padding 13:51:23 *** glx has joined #openttd 13:51:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 13:51:27 <TrueBrain> I like the window system :) Just wish I didn't have to recompile for it every time 13:52:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8542: Change: use a darker gradient colour for company colours on graphs https://git.io/JLh3c 13:52:42 <TrueBrain> frosch123: in other words, you think changing the background is a better approach too? 13:52:54 <TrueBrain> "should have the biggest impact" can go both ways :P 13:53:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber commented on pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLh34 13:56:29 <milek7> TrueBrain: https://gist.github.com/Milek7/8482c4e87947f4748aea5d96b3e89b80 13:56:35 <TrueBrain> <3 13:57:48 <frosch123> TrueBrain: yes, i would try black background. 13:57:52 <TrueBrain> :D 13:57:57 <frosch123> "would", not "will" :) 13:57:58 <TrueBrain> I will experiment with it a bit next week 13:58:11 <TrueBrain> I like his design overal 13:58:15 <TrueBrain> might just try that, see how that goes 13:58:29 <TrueBrain> unless the signing certificates come in; that would keep me busy next week too I guess :P 13:58:31 <TrueBrain> we will see :D 13:58:50 <frosch123> yeah, the designs are cool. a bit utopian, but a direction for orientation 13:59:04 <TrueBrain> "someone with an opinion" :P 13:59:19 <TrueBrain> always nice to follow people who appear to know what they are doing :D 14:00:04 <glx> at least it's using existing widgets 14:00:59 <glx> and design is argumented 14:01:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities https://git.io/JLh39 14:03:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8544: Add: [Script] ScriptCargo::GetName, to get the human readable name of a cargo https://git.io/JLh3d 14:08:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8544: Add: [Script] ScriptCargo::GetName, to get the human readable name of a cargo https://git.io/JLhtB 14:09:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #8544: Add: [Script] ScriptCargo::GetName, to get the human readable name of a cargo https://git.io/JLhsn 14:10:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber commented on pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLhsC 14:14:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #8538: Remove: warning in cheat window https://git.io/JLhsD 14:15:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8034: Text in cheat menu window is excessively dramatic https://git.io/Jvrdw 14:15:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8538: Remove: warning in cheat window https://git.io/JLpSx 14:15:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #7869: The human-readable name of a cargo type can't be queried by AI/GS. https://git.io/Jed7d 14:15:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8544: Add: [Script] ScriptCargo::GetName, to get the human readable name of a cargo https://git.io/JLhtB 14:15:32 <TrueBrain> cheers for the reviews :) 14:17:51 <michi_cc> Anybody interesting in looking at #8378? 14:20:41 <TrueBrain> for me it was blocking on LordAro , if he accepted your answer :D 14:25:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities https://git.io/JLhGI 14:29:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #8378: Remove undefined behaviour from save/load code https://git.io/JIjs7 14:29:45 <michi_cc> No change, just making sure nothing broke. 14:35:37 <glx> took me some time to understand OC_ASSERT stuff, it's just abusing parameters 14:36:45 <Samu> fix for 7670 when not coming to 1.11? t.t 14:37:51 <Samu> TrueBrain removed this from the 1.11.0 milestone 4 days ago 14:38:56 <Samu> already being skipped 2 version 14:38:57 <Samu> s 14:42:34 *** _2TallTyler has joined #openttd 14:56:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8390: Add: [AI/GS] Missing water related functions and objects https://git.io/JLnqJ 14:56:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8378: Remove undefined behaviour from save/load code https://git.io/JLhne 14:57:47 <glx> diff looks huge, but the real changes are not that much 14:58:22 *** _2TallTyler has quit IRC 15:01:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8461: Feature: Permanent rivers https://git.io/JLS3A 15:04:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #8378: Remove undefined behaviour from save/load code https://git.io/JIjs7 15:07:42 <Samu> I don't understand why #8514 is "missing intention" 15:09:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick closed pull request #8404: Feature: Snow line height can be autodetermined upon world generation https://git.io/JLa2N 15:09:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8461: Feature: Permanent rivers https://git.io/JLhnV 15:14:01 <supermop_Home> yo 15:14:05 <Eddi|zuHause> ho 15:14:25 <supermop_Home> what's going on in the real world? 15:14:40 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno 15:15:32 <Eddi|zuHause> they discovered a genetic mutation that makes male pigs grow female organs 15:17:14 <Eddi|zuHause> s/mutation/modification/ 15:17:26 <frosch123> they replaced a Y with a X? 15:17:48 <Eddi|zuHause> as far as i understood it, they added some markers to Y to disable a few parts 15:18:30 <Eddi|zuHause> so they didn't modify the DNA directly 15:18:42 <michi_cc> Lovely epigenetics 15:19:31 <frosch123> maybe they find a method to make male chicken lay eggs 15:19:51 <frosch123> "solves" that killing-half-of-all-chicks issue 15:20:43 <frosch123> though chicken probably have that U/V thing instead of X/Y 15:22:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i think actually producing eggs might still be a bit further out from that point 15:22:49 <frosch123> s/UV/ZW/ 15:22:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8390: Add: [AI/GS] Missing water related functions and objects https://git.io/JLhcu 15:24:19 *** ekangmonyet has quit IRC 15:24:47 *** ekangmonyet has joined #openttd 15:25:22 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 15:32:32 <TrueBrain> milek7: found some time, left a (long) comment .. sorry :) I don't know how much you know about cybersecurity, so I explained a few more things than might be needed :) 15:34:00 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 15:35:54 *** ekangmonyet_ has joined #openttd 15:36:28 *** ekangmonyet has quit IRC 15:37:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8461: Feature: Permanent rivers https://git.io/JLS3A 15:37:46 <Samu> Eddi|zuHause, just updated, does it look better? 15:37:53 <milek7> TrueBrain: unless I'm missing something, encrypting channel is solving that 15:37:56 <milek7> after DH exchange server would have client public key 15:38:39 <milek7> if malicious server would want to terminate encrypted connection at their end.. it can, but it will yield different public key, not that of client 15:44:20 <milek7> >it wouldn't even require the full communication to be encrypted 15:44:21 <milek7> it does need to be encrypted (well, at least authenticated), because otherwise whatever complex authorization scheme you come up, malicious server can just passthrough it and takeover socket when it is done 15:45:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #8539: Graph Window - Colors of the mauve, dark green and purple companies are barely visible https://git.io/JLpHF 15:48:46 <Samu> glx, there are no canals or rivers built on the regression.sav 15:48:52 *** hryniuk has quit IRC 15:48:53 <Samu> how would I test that 15:49:15 <Samu> wait, maybe there is a canal, let me find it 15:50:27 <glx> oh there's AIMarine.IsCanal 15:51:02 <Samu> i mean in the actual map, there are no rivers 15:52:16 <glx> it's weird IsCanalTile is in AIMarine 15:53:16 <glx> hmm or maybe IsSeaTile should be in marine too 15:53:51 <Samu> they're not constructable, I don't think it needs to be in AIMarine 15:54:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber updated pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLpdb 15:54:27 <Samu> canal is constructed, seems fair it is in AIMarine 15:55:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber updated pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLpdb 15:55:50 <milek7> TrueBrain: I replied in gist to keep discussion in one place 15:56:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber updated pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLpdb 15:57:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber updated pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLpdb 15:58:17 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 15:59:52 *** Flygon has quit IRC 16:03:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth opened pull request #8546: Doc: provide a visual representation of the company colour ranges https://git.io/JLhCP 16:03:55 <frosch123> hmm, no andy, did he run to discord? 16:08:02 *** rptr has joined #openttd 16:10:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber commented on pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLhWe 16:11:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLhWI 16:15:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth opened pull request #8547: Doc: add a png representation of the palette overlaid with indexes (dec) https://git.io/JLhWW 16:16:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #8547: Doc: add a png representation of the palette overlaid with indexes (dec) https://git.io/JLhWW 16:17:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities https://git.io/JLhW0 16:18:13 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:18:20 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 16:30:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber commented on pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLhWx 16:31:03 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 16:31:22 <Xaroth> frosch123: it's like you summoned the devil himself... with a bit of delay. 16:31:44 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 16:38:55 <andythenorth> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnGo6Qm0Wt8 16:39:21 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 16:41:16 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 16:45:03 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 16:48:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep updated pull request #8480: Multitile depots https://git.io/JL5Hh 17:04:23 <Samu> where do i find the regression log at? 17:05:21 <Samu> i ran regression test, it failed, the diff isn't too helpful 17:05:30 <Samu> i want the log itself 17:07:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities https://git.io/JLhBY 17:08:54 <glx> there's no written log 17:15:49 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 17:15:58 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 17:18:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Wolfolo commented on pull request #8480: Multitile depots https://git.io/JLhBR 17:19:28 <andythenorth> oof I finally broke my 160 year save irretrievably :D 17:19:44 <Wolf01> Don't you have a backup? 17:19:49 <andythenorth> I changed something in railtype grf, and now all my narrow-gauge tracks have been converted to RAIL 17:19:58 <andythenorth> surprised how long it took 17:20:11 <andythenorth> it's on a branch anyway to test 8342 separation PR 17:20:19 <andythenorth> so the savegame is pretty much junk now 17:20:47 <andythenorth> lets have a moment of silence for it 17:21:47 <Samu> glx: the diff isn't too helpful in this situation, https://pastebin.com/Hc28tAAk 17:22:06 <Samu> i added a list of tiles to valuate IsSeaTile, IsRiverTile 17:22:32 <andythenorth> samu, that wasn't a long enough silence :( 17:22:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] MagnumSociety opened issue #123: [de_DE] Translator access request https://git.io/JLhB2 17:22:45 <Samu> it was exactly 1 minute 17:22:50 <andythenorth> oh ok 17:22:57 <andythenorth> I didn't specify a length 17:22:58 <andythenorth> that's fine 17:23:03 <Samu> hehe 17:32:24 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 17:44:35 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 17:46:08 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 17:54:09 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 17:54:49 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 18:07:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8390: Add: [AI/GS] Missing water related functions and objects https://git.io/JLnqJ 18:07:17 <Samu> it's going to fail regression 18:07:37 <Samu> just wondering if the output is more useful over there 18:08:05 <glx> I'm trying to add something about that, but it seems there's a bug somewhere 18:11:00 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 18:11:29 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 18:12:59 <Samu> ugly :) https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8390/checks?check_run_id=1674261783 18:13:49 <Samu> i really just wonder if the log can't be placed alongside the temporary files 18:14:06 <Samu> that would help greatly, then I'd just copy paste the missing section into the original result 18:14:23 <glx> it can, I'm working on that, but I first need to fix a regression crash :) 18:16:56 <andythenorth> anybody feel like making a prototype of this? https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1780327/103203644-4c54b180-48ed-11eb-93df-d22d698858de.png 18:17:07 <andythenorth> just a spike, doesn't have to be PR-able 18:17:42 *** Progman has quit IRC 18:17:59 <andythenorth> the alternative approach is probably more flexible, but seems a lot of work https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=215487 18:18:21 <andythenorth> context https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=88255 18:20:51 <glx> and I also have script version conflicts (silly search paths) 18:26:34 <glx> ah no it's not the search path, it's AIs with different version in tar name but same internal version 18:29:49 <andythenorth> shall I just ship this? :) (could have a parameter to disable it) 18:29:51 <andythenorth> https://grf.farm/images/variants_this_is_fine.png 18:30:10 <glx> I have too much downloaded content 18:30:17 <andythenorth> there is an issue with the reliability varying between each colour scheme, due to random 18:30:25 <andythenorth> probably realistic 18:31:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JLh0N 18:31:05 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 18:32:14 <Samu> are they different engines 18:32:37 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 18:33:13 <Samu> do you have to create different engines for each colour? 18:36:19 <andythenorth> they use different IDs in this implementation 18:37:11 <andythenorth> there are at least 3 alternative ways to provide the colour schemes 18:37:29 <andythenorth> all rely on abusing side channels 18:42:11 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 18:45:51 <frosch123> did you add that reliabiility issue to the discussion? 18:46:31 <andythenorth> I'll do it now 18:49:40 <andythenorth> oh I already did it seems 18:50:27 <andythenorth> I had vague ideas about all child vehicles just have a pointer to parent for reliability etc 18:50:32 <andythenorth> but I am bad at implementation 18:50:39 <andythenorth> and that probably fails hard with cb36 18:51:05 <andythenorth> the ID route seems...quite unpopular and maybe not worth pursuing 18:51:32 <andythenorth> the extensible property route, I have NFI how that would work. I got as far as thinking maybe action 14 to define the extended props. 18:51:50 <andythenorth> but then every vehicle instance on the map needs extra arbitrary bytes or words 18:51:54 <andythenorth> and savegame upgrades 18:51:56 <andythenorth> and crap 18:52:39 <andythenorth> and I have NFI at all how autoreplace could be patched to handle n arbitrary properties in tabs 18:53:53 <Eddi|zuHause> what? 18:54:50 <andythenorth> Samu https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1239793#p1239793 18:55:10 <andythenorth> oops why did that highlight samu? 18:55:13 <andythenorth> intended for Eddi|zuHause 18:56:53 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i'm actually Samu? 18:57:16 <andythenorth> I don't know if that's funny or terrifying 18:57:36 * andythenorth has a weak grip on reality today, that might be enough to break me 19:16:37 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 19:24:08 *** rptr has quit IRC 19:35:09 <supermop_Home> should i draw something or play the game? 19:42:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8444: Feature: Close adjacent level crossings as if they were one large crossing https://git.io/JLhz0 19:46:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8444: Feature: Close adjacent level crossings as if they were one large crossing https://git.io/JLhzu 19:48:13 <TrueBrain> milek7: I think you forgot a detail in what I tried to say: if you don't have an initial trust, someone that is in your network path (which is the case in your scenario) can intercept all traffic, even with DH :) He can just terminate the encrypted channel on both sides, and none would be any of the wiser 19:48:21 <TrueBrain> but I will typie type some words in the gist :) 19:48:44 <milek7> no :) 19:49:27 <milek7> server would be wiser, because while someone can terminate connection on its side, but then it will just connect with different pubkey 19:51:40 <TrueBrain> hmm .. my o was stuck this morning, but now my r is stuck 19:51:41 <TrueBrain> that is odd 19:52:05 <Eddi|zuHause> time for a thorough keyboard cleaning ;) 19:52:22 <TrueBrain> which was exactly what I did what caused this issue 19:52:49 <TrueBrain> meh .. time for a new keyboard I am afraid ... long overdue 19:52:54 <TrueBrain> but hard to get good keyboards 19:53:22 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 19:53:40 <TrueBrain> anyway, milek7 , it is nice and all you replied to "my objections", but you don't react to my alternatives; feels a bit you only want your way, but that might be the internet and letters ;) 19:57:33 <milek7> 1. first is useless without encryption anyway, as I explained, and with encryption it isn't really necessary 19:57:50 <milek7> 3. you threw away yourself 19:58:17 <milek7> 2. might be ok, but why solve problem partially when it is possible to solve it fully? 19:59:52 <TrueBrain> first explore the field you have, before you zoom in on a single solution. It helps you to open up for other solutions you might not have considered 20:02:47 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 20:25:12 <supermop_Home> multiplayer? 20:26:38 <FLHerne> Yes 20:27:24 <supermop_Home> anyone want to play? or any good servers to check out? 20:28:43 <FLHerne> For vanilla, Reddit S1 is usually busy 20:29:06 <supermop_Home> hmm 20:29:11 <FLHerne> I much prefer grfs, but no-one is ever hosting with the right ones :P 20:29:19 <supermop_Home> yeah 20:29:49 <FLHerne> I could play, but I'm on my laptop so I probably shouldn't host 20:31:00 <supermop_Home> same 20:31:38 <supermop_Home> i need to get some kind of set up where i can just have a server with my preferred grfs playing at all times 20:32:19 <FLHerne> My cheapo VPS is probably too slow for that 20:34:52 <supermop_Home> though i do not have a computer other than a laptop anymore 20:40:21 <supermop_Home> man why did so many N64 games have such interesting scores 20:41:01 *** rptr has joined #openttd 20:43:38 <supermop_Home> the RV pathfinder looks ahead several junctions right? 20:45:13 <supermop_Home> i assume it knows things like "this tile is a one way road in the direction i want to go" 20:45:55 <supermop_Home> hmm i guess i should upgrade my version to play mo 20:45:56 <supermop_Home> mp 20:52:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened pull request #8548: Dump info commands https://git.io/JLhan 20:54:43 <andythenorth> frosch123 you wanted something at 16.03? 20:55:20 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: wow, you figured out what 0x0102 means? Respect! 20:56:00 <Eddi|zuHause> well, all the info was technically there :p 20:58:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison updated pull request #8548: Dump info console commands https://git.io/JLhan 21:00:05 <frosch123> andythenorth: you wanted that var to check whether the current rail tile powers a certain railtype. i wondered what to return when the railtype you queried is unknown to the railtype grf 21:00:59 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 21:01:13 <frosch123> i settled for: it's more likely that a random railtype does not power a random other railtype. or if they do that the railtype author would have known about the other one 21:01:28 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 21:04:01 <andythenorth> seems valud 21:04:08 <andythenorth> valid * 21:04:11 <andythenorth> tpying skills 21:05:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #8549: Codechange: On regression failure, output the result in a file https://git.io/JLha7 21:08:12 <Samu> nice nice, excelent 21:09:24 <andythenorth> so the 'variants are just IDs' route might be a thing, but grf authors on discord are quite -1 21:09:51 <andythenorth> this, with arbitrary extensible vehicle properties...I just don't see how we'd implement that sanely https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1239793#p1239793 21:10:57 <andythenorth> so how about cargo remains cargo, vehicles get to subscribe to a grf-global property which would work with auto-replace (and is intended for liveries, but could be abused) and vehicles get one arbitrary local property, not auto-replaceable, for vehicle specific crap like regearing etc 21:11:13 * andythenorth wonders if a picture would be better 21:11:27 <andythenorth> also frosch has made space in vehicle window by removing the eye :P 21:11:46 <supermop_Home> ugh this server has breakdowns on 21:12:02 <andythenorth> like...arbitrary extensible _sounds_ cool 21:12:09 <andythenorth> but we have 4 spritelayers, and that's fine 21:12:26 <andythenorth> sometimes n is as easy as 2 21:12:34 <andythenorth> but sometimes 2 is easier than n, and better than 1 21:13:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i've not understood a single word you're saying 21:15:00 <frosch123> andythenorth: that forum link is funny. while you talk about liveries all the time, that forum link talks about changing vehicle properties, and showing their range 21:15:22 <andythenorth> I am fairly convinced both me and the forum poster are wrong 21:15:35 <TrueBrain> awh, but I wanted to be wrong :( 21:15:41 <andythenorth> just supporting liveries, we'll repeat the same bad UI where it's then used for stats 21:15:58 <andythenorth> so we'll get "DB - 120km/h, dellner couplings, 2 drivers" 21:16:13 <andythenorth> and "DB - 120km/h, screw couplings, 2 drivers" 21:16:15 <andythenorth> repeated 21:16:33 <andythenorth> but the forum link.... 21:16:35 <andythenorth> FML 21:16:51 *** tejanos has joined #openttd 21:17:00 <frosch123> did someone link a computer/car configurator 21:17:08 <andythenorth> I can't see how we'd allow a grf to register arbitrary properties, display them, with different kinds of values 21:17:16 <andythenorth> and work with autoreplace 21:17:18 <andythenorth> and AI support 21:17:19 <frosch123> you pick one of 5 basic layouts, and then choose indiviudal parts, to get your custom computer/car 21:17:39 <andythenorth> also that UI mockup is only for planes, trains are abitrarily combinable 21:18:09 <frosch123> well, it's certainly something entirely different than what you suggested :) 21:18:55 <andythenorth> I thought it might be a better idea 21:19:26 <andythenorth> but then I tried to imagine writing nml code that would make use of it 21:19:36 <andythenorth> I can't even find an appropriate emoji for how confusing that was 21:19:58 <frosch123> let's compare that forum post to nuts. nuts has a bunch of vehicle classes with different stats 21:20:24 <frosch123> going by that forum post, nuts would have a single vehicle per generation, and you pick the class as variant of it 21:21:06 <frosch123> so, essentially that forum post lets the player freely combine the look of an engine with its properties 21:21:15 <frosch123> (in the extreme case) 21:21:25 <frosch123> i think there are not enough stats in the game, where that makes sense 21:22:45 <frosch123> either you have a single train engine, and you can switch out parts for other parts. or you have many engines with fixed combinations 21:22:48 <andythenorth> but the buy menu would be very short! 21:22:51 <andythenorth> super! 21:22:55 <frosch123> i think the latter makes more interesting game play 21:23:44 <frosch123> the former is common for racing games :) 21:23:55 <andythenorth> I used to spend so long tuning gear curves 21:24:06 <andythenorth> trying to be better than the 'auto for this track' setting 21:24:31 <andythenorth> hmm mariokart on wii has a nice level of configuration 21:24:41 <andythenorth> choose driver, choose kart, choose tyres, choose wings 21:25:05 <andythenorth> by the time I get to wings I'm like 'whatever' 21:25:17 <andythenorth> they're all the same anyway for gameplay, so it's cloud vs glider 21:25:27 <supermop_Home> i mean 1st rule of Mariokart is just always be yoshi 21:25:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure if i ever wrote this explicitly: but my use case for "variants" would be different number of articulated parts 21:26:07 <andythenorth> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/h4AxKyh0ohs/hqdefault.jpg 21:26:30 <Eddi|zuHause> like "Talent 2" could be available with 3, 4 or 5 cars 21:26:43 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause and (bearing in mind you helped me do that with HEQS)...why not just more IDs? 21:27:06 <andythenorth> we're no longer constrained by TTDP 21:35:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kuhnovic opened pull request #8550: Feature: Remove all industries button in scenario editor https://git.io/JLhwv 21:38:02 <andythenorth> reframe the use case? 21:38:31 <andythenorth> I enjoy drawing pixel trains, it's therapeutic, and it would amuse me to draw each of these for grf https://grf.farm/images/45534A8A-ACC7-4067-B4A5-BD3124849BD3_1_105_c.jpeg 21:38:46 <andythenorth> I have exhausted all the current sensible and less sensible ways of doing that 21:39:05 <andythenorth> including abusing the side channels, which is fun, but less therapeutic and more like playing 2048 21:50:32 <andythenorth> obviously there are also the people who wish to accurately represent every train / bus / plane ever made 21:50:36 <andythenorth> and they're using subtypes 21:50:48 <andythenorth> my list of "FIRS disables with vehicle set X' is growing 21:51:07 <andythenorth> so far it's CZ vehicles, RUKTS, and I think maybe the Erato sets 21:51:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7822: Fix #7670: Cache the origin tile to prevent recurring calls to the road pathfinder when a vehicle is blocked by another https://git.io/JLhw5 21:51:40 <Samu> shameless bump 21:51:46 * andythenorth considers just merging all the grfs, FIRS Horse Hog Ships 21:51:50 <Samu> really wanted this fixed for 1.11 21:52:50 <Timberwolf> andythenorth: I have considered "Timberwolf in 1x" for the people who complain about zoom level conflicts, but IMO that would be better served by separating out "maximum zoom level" and "maximum sprite zoom level" 21:53:57 <andythenorth> Timberwolf.grf, all things combined? :) 21:54:05 <TrueBrain> 1 to rule them alllllll 21:54:14 <andythenorth> maybe the canadian dude was right 21:54:24 <Timberwolf> Would be an interesting workflow, given Stations is NFO and the rest are NML. 21:54:39 <andythenorth> it's fine, I do nml -> nfo 21:54:47 <andythenorth> and I've had templated nfo 21:54:54 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:55:19 <andythenorth> splicing multiple nfo together though is quite hard 21:55:24 <Timberwolf> Stations is pretty horrific, all the stations are hardcoded into a Go program which outputs the requisite NFO. 21:55:25 <andythenorth> there are problems with string IDs 21:55:36 <andythenorth> might be solvable by re-generating the strings 21:56:03 <andythenorth> this sounds like a nice project P 21:56:11 <andythenorth> 2021: the year the grfs combined 21:57:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8550: Feature: Remove all industries button in scenario editor https://git.io/JLhrf 21:58:07 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> there are problems with string IDs <-- that's why i have a dummy callback that uses all strings 21:58:23 <andythenorth> glx oh that's a nice one ) 21:58:45 <andythenorth> I see people ask about scenarios being tied to industry grfs quite often 21:59:46 <glx> I think it's a nice addition to scenario editor 22:00:31 <andythenorth> 1.11 might be a bit of a legendary release 22:01:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber updated pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLpdb 22:02:51 <andythenorth> @Timberwolf you don't do any livery or stats crap do you? (cargo subtypes, depot flip, company colour combos) 22:03:18 * andythenorth keeps trying to discord 22:03:25 <andythenorth> Timberwolf :P ^^ 22:11:49 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 22:12:45 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 22:12:47 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 22:18:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber commented on pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLhrF 22:19:24 <Timberwolf> andythenorth: Nope, it's boring old 2cc. I think there's a couple of PASS livery refits in Road Vehicles for the taxi cabs and one of the trams, and that's it. 22:19:36 <andythenorth> nvm :) 22:19:44 <Timberwolf> (So technically I do have cargo subtypes in one set) 22:20:18 * andythenorth seeking a spec :P 22:20:46 <andythenorth> my track record with newgrf spec is....weak 22:24:40 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLhom 22:33:42 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:34:12 *** tejanos has quit IRC 22:36:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber updated pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLpdb 22:36:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8549: Codechange: On regression failure, output the result in a file https://git.io/JLhoQ 22:38:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber commented on pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLhoN 22:38:55 *** rptr has quit IRC 22:39:10 <milek7> TrueBrain: replied in gist https://gist.github.com/Milek7/8482c4e87947f4748aea5d96b3e89b80#gistcomment-3588271 22:39:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8543: Fix #8272: vehicle destination text colour when mousing over https://git.io/JLhox 22:41:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8546: Doc: provide a visual representation of the company colour ranges https://git.io/JLhKe 22:41:51 <andythenorth> LordAro you could find and replace the css 22:42:07 <andythenorth> it was all generated originally so eh 22:42:43 <LordAro> yes, the issue with that is that it is no longer generated :p 22:43:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8543: Fix #8272: vehicle destination text colour when mousing over https://git.io/JLhIN 22:43:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8272: Stopped vehicule destination should be red when mouse over https://git.io/JJ35w 22:43:20 *** rptr has joined #openttd 22:43:29 <TrueBrain> 10 open issues for 1.11 :D :D 22:43:47 <andythenorth> I learnt years ago that stuff like inline css or not is things other people can worry about 22:44:01 <andythenorth> TrueBrain is that the magic number? :) 22:44:16 <TrueBrain> no, 0 is 22:44:21 <andythenorth> oooo 22:44:31 <TrueBrain> but removing things from the 1.11 milestone is fully an option :) 22:44:58 <andythenorth> is this going to be the best 1.11 we've ever done? 22:48:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #8549: Codechange: On regression failure, output the result in a file https://git.io/JLha7 22:48:22 <TrueBrain> it is going to be the best 1.11.0, I promise you! 22:49:00 <TrueBrain> (especially as it is going to be the only one, for those missing the joke :P) 22:51:25 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:54:54 <andythenorth> ok sleeping times 22:54:56 <andythenorth> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 22:54:58 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 23:07:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg opened issue #8551: Flat maps of arctic and tropical climates are completely inaccessible https://git.io/JLh6Z 23:17:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8551: Flat maps of arctic and tropical climates are completely inaccessible https://git.io/JLh6Z 23:17:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #8444: Feature: Close adjacent level crossings as if they were one large crossing https://git.io/JLDFp 23:19:10 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: w00p, lot of improvements :) Some quick feedback: we use /* */ comments on single lines :) (always something to complain :P) 23:20:16 <Eddi|zuHause> someone should test whether i broke it :p 23:20:38 <TrueBrain> haven't you? :) 23:21:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #8444: Feature: Close adjacent level crossings as if they were one large crossing https://git.io/JLDFp 23:28:24 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 23:35:16 *** DasPoseidon has quit IRC 23:36:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm having a weird issue where it doesn't find a grf file that should be there... 23:36:25 <Eddi|zuHause> but i'm also having these weird layers of symlinks all over the place 23:42:09 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 23:42:47 *** Progman has joined #openttd 23:42:52 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 23:45:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't played in so long... i always want to hit space to unpause