Log for #openttd on 11th January 2021:
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00:21:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on pull request #8552: Feature: Prevent vehicles to unload cargo in implicit stops in cargodist mode if the cargo is not accepted in such station
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02:07:39  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] AKANexus opened issue #124: [pt_BR] Translator access request
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07:24:59  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8548: Dump info console commands
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07:59:10  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8552: Feature: Prevent vehicles to unload cargo in implicit stops in cargodist mode if the cargo is not accepted in such station
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08:23:36  <andythenorth> o/
08:25:23  <andythenorth> livery spec such
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10:13:24  <Samu> hi
10:50:16  <Samu> is this doing what I think it's doing? SB(_me[t].m8, 0, 14, 0);
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11:00:53  <Samu> nop, it's not
11:17:50  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8461: Feature: Permanent rivers
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12:23:27  <Samu> wow, towns are really angry now, i just cleared a few trees when building rails
12:23:35  <Samu> and i got instantly appalling
12:23:48  <Samu> and that's with a permissive setting
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12:29:33  <Xaroth> they _really_ liked those trees.
12:29:54  <debdog> :)
12:30:23  <Samu> i wonder if tree density has anything to do with it
13:02:42  <Samu> i can't reproduce this
13:15:45  <Samu> yep, those reproduction steps didn't work for me
13:15:57  <Samu> the train goes to C, but doesn't unload coal as he says
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13:21:08  <Samu>
13:21:30  <Samu> I don't understand cargodist that much, maybe I'm doing something wrong?
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13:37:41  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8507: Fix #7604: prevent houses to wander too far from town center when rebuilding
13:40:45  <_dp_> nvm, I forgot BuildTownHouse can shift tiles
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13:53:09  <TrueBrain> milek7: realised that with your approach the connection can still be easily MITM'd, as we don't validate the server pubkey .. doesn't allow for existing trust to be compromised, but does allow for new trust to be compromised
13:53:21  <TrueBrain> well, "your approach", sounds like there is something wrong with that
13:53:22  <TrueBrain> it isn't
13:53:37  <TrueBrain> it is more that we miss an additional step to mitigate scenarios like you painted further
13:54:15  <TrueBrain> I wrote some words on the gist; just see if you agree with them and if you consider them worth mitigating
13:55:47  <TrueBrain> _dp_: :D
13:56:04  <TrueBrain> my mail still shows your reply, MWHAHAHAHAHA :P
13:56:36  <_dp_> TrueBrain, gz on being able to read even more nonsense :p
13:56:43  <TrueBrain> :D
13:56:50  <TrueBrain> well, you do have a point, as in: it is a real problem
13:56:57  <TrueBrain> just not one that the PR increased or decreased
13:57:13  <TrueBrain> well, it increased it slightly, as houses are more likely to remain in the center
13:57:15  <TrueBrain> so I give you that :)
13:57:53  <TrueBrain> but yeah, it is just a bit poor design how houses bigger than 1x1 are placed
13:58:46  <_dp_> TrueBrain, I'm not sure it is a 'problem' as I don't really see any reasonable way to 'fix' it
13:58:57  <_dp_> so a feature :p
13:59:10  <TrueBrain> fair :D
13:59:21  <TrueBrain> and yes, I was happy to see 2x2 could be build from any tile; it can shift in any direction
13:59:30  <TrueBrain> I did not know that about the Town Growth
13:59:53  <TrueBrain> someone already put effort into that, as it turned out .. that a 2x2 doesn't always have to start on the northern tile :D
14:00:11  <_dp_> TrueBrain, well, if it didn't it wouldn't be able to build 2x2 on all sides of the road
14:00:21  <TrueBrain> would have been worth mentioning in my PR, as I did check that .. lol :)
14:00:42  <Eddi|zuHause> so what's missing? 2x2 overbuilding more than one house at the same time?
14:01:04  <TrueBrain> fusing of houses!
14:02:04  <TrueBrain> that is 2 houses like each other A LOT, they can fuse, and become a bigger house
14:02:08  <TrueBrain> sounds realistic
14:02:10  <_dp_> well, that's one way to fix it I guess
14:02:35  <_dp_> not sure I'd like that it cb though
14:02:39  <_dp_> *in
14:03:35  <TrueBrain> so, 1.11 .. what more do we need .. lets see ..
14:04:12  <TrueBrain> few reviews .. one of airport code ... I will assign that to LordAro , he owes me an airport code review :D
14:04:20  <LordAro> i thought you might
14:04:35  <TrueBrain> :D
14:04:45  <TrueBrain> I too added lots of comments!
14:04:52  <TrueBrain> pretty sure airport code will become the most commented part of the game :D
14:05:11  <TrueBrain> owh, right, 1 PR that ... I am not even sure off fixes the problem correct
14:05:26  <TrueBrain> as ... Trains and Next()
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14:05:55  <TrueBrain> and one "rant" PR, to revert "restart" to its old behaviour, to not scare away all server operators when 1.11 hits :P
14:06:24  <TrueBrain> next, we have 1 PR I like to have in, but is a code-change only (scrollbar thingy)
14:06:41  <TrueBrain> and the GUI buttons .. not sure what the state is there, will have to check with our chief when he joins tonight
14:06:59  <TrueBrain> and LordAro thought I was too ambitious with my 1.11 milestone :P
14:07:21  <LordAro> i mean, having someone working on it full time certainly helps :p
14:07:26  <TrueBrain> :D
14:07:30  <TrueBrain> shocking, aint it? :P
14:07:58  <TrueBrain> it was fun to do with my time off :)
14:08:10  <TrueBrain> I won't keep this up, just to be clear :P :P
14:08:18  <LordAro> is that time off coming to an end? :D
14:09:09  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8378: Remove undefined behaviour from save/load code
14:09:27  <TrueBrain> well, I still don't have a job ... more correct: I still haven't applied for one :P
14:09:48  <Samu> I'd like to request #7670/#7822 so that I can start testing "bad" AIs without lagging too much
14:09:52  <TrueBrain> but I have other projects I want to work on too :D
14:09:55  <TrueBrain> so yeah .. :D
14:10:29  <TrueBrain> might shift some of my time to those :)
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14:11:53  <LordAro> TrueBrain: are you... ok with that? :>
14:12:01  <TrueBrain> with what?
14:12:12  <LordAro> not having/applying for job
14:12:20  <TrueBrain> more than I expected to be :)
14:12:30  <TrueBrain> for 6 years I worked a lot .. like .. a lot .. like .. not normal, a lot
14:12:46  <TrueBrain> learned a lot, could do a lot, have done cool shit and stuff
14:12:54  <TrueBrain> been in places I cannot even talk about and shit
14:12:59  <TrueBrain> but ... it took its toll
14:13:06  <TrueBrain> so doing absolutely nothing is pretty .. enjoyable :)
14:13:13  <LordAro> i can imagine so
14:13:19  <LordAro> how long can you keep it up? :p
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14:13:31  <TrueBrain> and I finally managed to get my savings below the level I have to pay additional money to the gov over, so there is that :D
14:13:39  <LordAro> hahaha
14:13:45  <TrueBrain> euh .. 3 years, at this rate? :P Without any compromises :P
14:13:56  <LordAro> nice.
14:13:57  <TrueBrain> so I am really not worried
14:14:25  <TrueBrain> but, I do agree it is unusual :)
14:22:01  <TrueBrain> hmm .. other project, or am I going to try multi-GSes .. that won't be a small project :P
14:22:28  <_dp_> TrueBrain, actually, 2x2 shift doesn't check _all_ directions
14:22:35  <_dp_> so my comment may actually be mostly correct
14:22:44  <TrueBrain> no? I saw it grow in at least 2
14:23:00  <_dp_> I'll make a picture :)
14:23:07  <TrueBrain> oeh, pretty pictures :D
14:24:43  <TrueBrain> the function doing it is written REALLY strange, but it does check 4 tiles :P
14:24:55  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8550: Feature: "Remove all industries" button in scenario editor
14:25:01  <TrueBrain> tile, tile+SE, tile+SW, tile+NW
14:25:20  <TrueBrain> owh, but in reverse, because ... ugh
14:25:28  <TrueBrain> so .. tile, tile+NW, tile+NE, tile+SE, I guess
14:25:35  <Eddi|zuHause> probably been that way since r1
14:26:01  <LordAro> #blamechris
14:26:28  <TrueBrain> next, it checks for every of those tiles if tile, tile+SE, tile+SW, tile+NW is free
14:26:35  <TrueBrain> I learnt nothing from all this
14:27:44  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. the first part is checking all possible 2x2 house locations from the origin tile, the next part is checking if all tiles of that 2x2 house location are free
14:28:07  <TrueBrain> I get what it tries to do .. but boy, that could have written in so many ways that would have been more readable
14:28:17  <Eddi|zuHause> so that second part should check for "free or replaceable house"
14:28:43  <glx> in the addition to the "remove all" button, he suggests to move "many random industries" out from the list to its own button, I think it's a valid idea, but you can tell what you think about that in #8550
14:29:31  <TrueBrain> I think your assessment doesn't need validation :D
14:29:54  <TrueBrain> Removing hacks == goooooodddddd
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14:30:28  <LordAro> i agree
14:30:40  <LordAro> i'd quite like a confirm box on "remove all industries" though
14:30:42  <TrueBrain> the only thing I am wondering, should they be 2 buttons on top of each other
14:30:46  <TrueBrain> or rather next to each other?
14:30:53  <glx> there is a confirm box
14:30:56  <TrueBrain> LordAro: read the PR ffs :P
14:30:58  <LordAro> next to each other, i'd say
14:30:59  <LordAro> ah good
14:31:02  <TrueBrain> it has a animated gif and everything
14:31:04  <LordAro> it wasn't mentioned in the text :p
14:31:16  <LordAro> and i hadn't gotten further than scanning the email notification :p
14:31:27  <TrueBrain> I forgive you :)
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14:32:58  <milek7> TrueBrain: I will write more later, but I posted quick reply in gist
14:33:17  <TrueBrain> you made me laugh that you consider this less likely, and I consider it more likely :)
14:33:42  <TrueBrain> anyway, as mentioned, these things can be extended on, and doesn't invalidate anything done
14:35:19  <TrueBrain> just as long as we are honest that the risk does exist, nothing is broken :)
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14:38:30  <Samu> have anyone actually tried to do the reproduction steps? #8552?
14:38:46  <Samu> train doesn't unload at C for me
14:42:59  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8550: Feature: "Remove all industries" button in scenario editor
14:49:12  <_dp_> TrueBrain, yeah, should be fine for that pr since it does seem to be able to revert the pr shift in all cases
14:49:19  * _dp_ after many many pictures
14:49:30  <TrueBrain> :D
14:49:35  <TrueBrain> I gave up understanding the code :P
14:49:54  <TrueBrain> and just "assumed it would be fine"
14:53:35  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] saveinthesky commented on issue #8501: OTTD crashes on start macosx . Log
14:58:51  <_dp_> Guess I'll add it to my townsim and check stats since I'll have to do that anyway
15:01:30  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8548: Dump info console commands
15:01:51  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm 90% through updating the diagonal crossings patch... but i think i've hit some larger blocks of code that changed with roadtypes...
15:02:06  <Eddi|zuHause> also, need to rework the adjacent crossings changes into it
15:05:36  <Eddi|zuHause> (and that completely ignores the graphics changes that i couldn't lift off the ancient maedrhos patch in the first place)
15:12:26  <supermop_Home> didn't someone try to make diagonal stations once?
15:13:57  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but that was even more ancient
15:14:27  <supermop_Home> and/or sloped stations
15:14:52  <Eddi|zuHause> sloped road stations might make sense
15:15:01  <Eddi|zuHause> drive through
15:15:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i think Wolf01 tried that
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15:41:50  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 commented on pull request #182: Fix: regression failure with Pillow 8.1.0
15:43:34  <glx> it's nice we have only 3 pcx files for nml regression, and they all have a different effect on pillow, one loads, 2 fail with different reason
15:53:27  <Samu> i have a question
15:53:39  <Samu> which one is better? 1, 2 or 3, or other?
15:54:54  <glx> for me it's 1, but I'm not a c++ specialist
15:56:05  <Samu> i currently have 3
15:56:30  <Samu> as seen as
15:56:39  <LordAro> 1 or 2, personally
15:57:32  <Samu> which one adheres with code style though?
16:00:13  <Samu> can't seem to find any occurrence of this in any part of the code
16:01:06  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8552: Feature: Prevent vehicles to unload cargo in implicit stops in cargodist mode if the cargo is not accepted in such station
16:03:26  <_dp_> oh, I forgot I switched citymania from mysql to postgres
16:03:31  <_dp_> celebrating ny went well xD
16:12:28  <Samu> _dp_ how would you do=
16:13:09  <_dp_> Samu, do what?
16:13:53  <Samu>
16:14:34  <_dp_> Samu, 2
16:14:47  <Samu> oki
16:17:53  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on pull request #8550: Feature: "Remove all industries" button in scenario editor
16:19:50  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8398: Change: Distribute left over cargo to stations according to the highest remainder
16:20:07  <Samu> done
16:22:02  <Samu> trailing white space t.t
16:25:51  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8398: Change: Distribute left over cargo to stations according to the highest remainder
16:29:38  <_dp_> Samu, btw, don't use both pair+struct combo to hold 3 values, either use tuple or move station into struct
16:30:00  <Samu> uh oh
16:31:04  <_dp_> not to say that I understand wtf is that pr even about :p
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16:45:21  <Eddi|zuHause> can i tell make to continue compiling all .cpp files even if one of them fails?
16:45:49  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i could like do "-j200" or soemthing ridiculous
16:54:40  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: --keep-going
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17:07:50  <Samu> learning how to do tuple
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17:26:50  <Eddi|zuHause> "tram = road = (GetCrossingRailAxis(ti->tile) == AXIS_Y ? ROAD_X : ROAD_Y);" <-- how did this get into the code? instead of using GetCrossingRoadAxis?
17:31:33  <Eddi|zuHause> "tram = road = AxisToRoadBits(GetCrossingRoadAxis(ti->tile));" seems equivalent
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17:52:54  <Samu> yes! tuple magic!
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18:03:18  <Samu> i can't seem to do this the struct way
18:03:28  <Samu> i could do tuple, but not struct
18:05:10  <andythenorth> yo
18:31:54  <andythenorth> livery spec attempt
18:32:10  <andythenorth> I tried to delete most of the blablabla
18:33:45  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
18:33:46  <DorpsGek>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:42:41  <_dp_> hm, 8507 does seem to reduce growth a bit, not sure why exactly...
18:45:32  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] frosch123 commented on issue #124: [pt_BR] Translator access request
18:51:09  <Eddi|zuHause> huh? got a 403 trying to push to github
18:52:54  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8006: Codechange: Increase scrollbar length limit to UINT_MAX and make their length properly unsigned
18:55:13  <Eddi|zuHause> "You must verify your email address."
18:56:31  <Eddi|zuHause> weird, they say emails were undeliverable...
18:57:48  <TrueBrain> _dp_: I guess that is the amount of run-away houses on average? :)
18:58:30  <_dp_> TrueBrain, nah, runaway houses shouldn't change avg house count
18:58:40  <_dp_> most likely just a bug in townsim though xD
18:59:49  <_dp_> or rather they can change house count but only by increasing fails
19:00:21  <TrueBrain> _dp_: it -does- change house count
19:00:49  <TrueBrain> 5 is a bit higher than I would expect :P
19:01:06  <TrueBrain> but there has to be some difference :)
19:02:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8006: Codechange: Increase scrollbar length limit to UINT_MAX and make their length properly unsigned
19:03:10  <LordAro> TrueBrain: i think that's everything
19:04:22  <LordAro> probably should check for windows warnings
19:08:07  <TrueBrain> LordAro: will check in a bit :)
19:08:59  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8531: Fix #7619: nudge fast planes sooner towards their target
19:10:05  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8527: Fix a bug in "restart" and introduce "reload" console command
19:10:21  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z opened pull request #8556: Feature: Allow diagonal tracks on level crossings
19:10:27  <LordAro> oh no
19:10:36  <TrueBrain> no?
19:10:45  <LordAro> diagonal crossings
19:10:57  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #7619: Game crash from out-of-bounds helicopter, infinite circling with superfast aircraft
19:11:00  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8531: Fix #7619: nudge fast planes sooner towards their target
19:11:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8527: Fix a bug in "restart" and introduce "reload" console command
19:11:28  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8469: 'restart' command after loading a savegame no longer re-generates the same world applying the settings from the save
19:11:48  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: it's currently in a very "it compiles" state, unfortunately
19:12:12  <LordAro> :)
19:13:06  <TrueBrain> UnderflowSafeSub is so much better LordAro , nice :)
19:13:41  <LordAro> i wondered about templating it
19:13:44  <LordAro> then forgot
19:18:54  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8006: Codechange: Increase scrollbar length limit to UINT_MAX and make their length properly unsigned
19:18:55  <TrueBrain> I think LordAro was testing me
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19:21:06  <LordAro> "It is highly unlikely that this patch can be resurrected. " ~Eddi, 2008
19:21:56  <Eddi|zuHause> you realize how unlikely it is that i actually managed to do this? :p
19:22:05  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: :D
19:22:48  <Eddi|zuHause> this was 2011-ish
19:23:52  <LordAro>   Warning: ..\src\network\network_gui.cpp(264): warning C4267: 'argument': conversion from 'size_t' to 'uint', possible loss of data
19:23:56  <LordAro> blarg.
19:24:08  <LordAro> i suppose i could make it size_t instead, but...
19:24:40  <andythenorth> so using livery spec, Gold Train GS
19:25:06  <andythenorth> most games now seem to be about unlocking skins
19:27:27  <Eddi|zuHause> they have a very different target audience
19:28:02  <andythenorth> I don't think you've been in discord?
19:28:04  <andythenorth> :)
19:30:07  <andythenorth> can GS count stats about vehicles using stations in a town?
19:31:48  <andythenorth> GS dice rolls which livery a town prefers, and player has to try and figure out which one it is by testing :P
19:31:48  <LordAro> i'm not sure that information is recorded anywhere
19:32:36  <andythenorth> GS notices a new livery in use, and increases station ratings
19:32:53  <Eddi|zuHause> well, they can get a list of vehicles visiting a station, same as the player can in the station window
19:33:00  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 updated pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities
19:33:18  <Eddi|zuHause> but they probably can't read much newgrf-specific stuff
19:33:26  <andythenorth> the daily missions GS could do 'use all the liveries for this engine and get a reward'
19:33:42  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #8378: Remove undefined behaviour from save/load code
19:35:35  <andythenorth> GS station rating penalty if engine livery doesn't match carriage livery
19:35:57  <LordAro> const_cast<void *>(static_cast<const void *>(reinterpret_cast<const char *>(std::addressof(static_cast<LinkGraphJob *>(...
19:36:00  <LordAro> jesus.
19:36:13  <TrueBrain> LOLz!
19:36:22  <TrueBrain> who has to be put on the naughty-bench? :P
19:36:23  <LordAro> just use a c-style cast
19:36:34  <LordAro> TrueBrain: literally the line you commented on for michi_cc's PR :p
19:36:40  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities
19:37:10  <TrueBrain> LordAro: the one that triggered my OCD? Shows how I totally did not read it :D
19:37:15  <LordAro> :D
19:37:18  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8378: Remove undefined behaviour from save/load code
19:37:33  <TrueBrain> (I tried to read the PR, I failed, I gave up :P)
19:37:42  * andythenorth runs out of GS -> train livery ideas
19:38:14  <andythenorth> GS makes all RVs of one livery cheaper, because the paint is simpler?
19:38:53  <andythenorth> GS only lets green buses in the town?
19:38:56  <TrueBrain> so now we wait for a preview and we are going to try to break frosch123 's patch :D
19:38:58  <andythenorth> hmm no, that's just company colours
19:40:24  <andythenorth> GS reduces running cost if livery features vinyl-wrap adverts?
19:40:27  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i was like "maybe i can learn a few things"... i think i was wrong :p
19:41:01  <TrueBrain> frosch123: can I bothered you to review ? As I wrote there, I am totally not sure that the code is correct; I know that the place of fixing should, give-or-take, be correct, but this Next() stuff confuses the fuck you of me :) I was hoping you had some better insights :D
19:42:52  <andythenorth> ho ho, why don't we the game world? :D
19:43:03  <andythenorth> we could integrate some adtech server that specialises in pixel ads
19:43:28  <Eddi|zuHause> can we ban andythenorth?
19:43:41  <andythenorth> there's always discord
19:43:47  <andythenorth> although it is like talking to my kids
19:47:03  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8551: Flat maps of arctic and tropical climates are completely inaccessible
19:47:19  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #8378: Remove undefined behaviour from save/load code
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19:52:10  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities
19:53:20  <TrueBrain> I really like your work with that PR frosch123  :)
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19:55:39  <TrueBrain> lol, we have no COLOUR_BLACK .. hmm
19:56:04  <frosch123> only dark grey
19:56:15  <TrueBrain> not in the Colours enum
19:57:10  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8533: Fix: don't allow free-wagon-chains to exceed max-train-length
19:57:19  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #8533: Fix: don't allow free-wagon-chains to exceed max-train-length
19:57:29  <frosch123> TrueBrain: why do you need it?
19:57:38  <TrueBrain> was looking for that graph issue thing
19:57:41  <TrueBrain> making the background darker
19:57:48  <TrueBrain> and tnx frosch123 , much appreciated that review :)
19:57:59  <frosch123> use a palette color, not a company color :)
19:58:05  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8533: Fix: don't allow free-wagon-chains to exceed max-train-length
19:58:09  <Eddi|zuHause> aren't those the company colours?
19:58:23  <TrueBrain> NWidget(WWT_EMPTY, COLOUR_GREY, WID_CV_GRAPH) <- frosch123 , I wanted to change that COLOUR_GREY into something black
19:58:33  <TrueBrain> but there is none in the enum
19:59:24  <frosch123> ignore the widget color, just draw a black rectangle in the graph
19:59:30  <frosch123> search for PC_BLACK
19:59:55  <frosch123> possibly add a new constant next to GRAPH_AXIS_LINE_COLOUR
20:00:34  <frosch123> TrueBrain: the widgets use the company colours, since they want multiple shades for bevels and stuff
20:00:36  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8295: Game crashes trying to sell huge wagon chain
20:00:42  <frosch123> but for the graph, just draw a black rect imo
20:01:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think github and my mail provider like each other... the email verification worked, but an hour later, it's refusing again
20:01:24  <TrueBrain> frosch123: ah, that makes sense :)
20:02:47  <_dp_> btw, I once tried to improve graphs by adding dark outline
20:03:11  <TrueBrain> LordAro: <- this ticket is now yours :) I am okay with close it, but not sure you are :)
20:03:17  <_dp_> it's not perfect but better
20:03:36  <TrueBrain> indeed
20:03:53  <TrueBrain> right, 3 tickets left for the 1.11 milestone :D
20:04:20  <LordAro> TrueBrain: oh my
20:04:39  <TrueBrain> <- this was a trivial PR .. now it is a lot more :D
20:07:31  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8398: Change: Distribute left over cargo to stations according to the highest remainder
20:08:00  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8539: Graph Window - Colors of the mauve, dark green and purple companies are barely visible
20:08:23  <TrueBrain> <- frosch123 : yup, just-not-black as background looks good :D
20:10:19  <frosch123> i am unsure whether you mistyped; or are joking that ottd has no real black, just very very dark greey
20:10:47  <_2TallTyler> Much prettier graph!
20:11:00  <TrueBrain> no, I tried PC_BLACK first, which didn't look pretty; so I made it slightly less dark, which looks better
20:11:10  <TrueBrain> but I also did not use PC_DARK_GREY
20:11:12  <TrueBrain> which was too light :)
20:11:18  <TrueBrain> <- I used colour 2
20:11:37  <frosch123> i hope GREY_SCALE(2) :)
20:11:41  <TrueBrain> ofc :)
20:11:47  <frosch123> \o/
20:11:59  <frosch123> it's a silly trick to make magic numbers look less magic
20:12:05  <frosch123> just add a nop-macro :p
20:12:14  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, in a totally unrelated GUI i was in charge of a few years ago, i also found that not-quite-black is better than pure-black for large areas
20:12:16  <TrueBrain> it does the trick :)
20:12:32  <TrueBrain> general rule of UI: never use #000000, never use #ffffff
20:12:42  <TrueBrain> things look 1000x prettier if you follow that rule alone :)
20:14:25  <_dp_> imo that 'black' looks kinda meh though :p
20:14:44  <Eddi|zuHause> do we have a "colour-blind" mode for the graphs?
20:15:15  <TrueBrain> _dp_: best of the worst, I would say :)
20:16:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, there could be a setting (*ughh*) like for the minimap colours
20:16:40  <_dp_> also, just noticed ff dark bg is actually a noise instead of a single color
20:17:23  <_dp_> had a bit of wtf moment when I color picked it to be the same color and tried to figure out why it looks different xD
20:17:36  <TrueBrain> I pressed "reopen pull request", but nothing happened, lol
20:17:40  <Eddi|zuHause> options could be "dark background, light colours", "light background, dark colours", "monochrome"
20:18:28  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8557: Change: darken the background of all graph to increase contrast
20:18:43  <TrueBrain> ugh, should be a draft PR
20:19:00  <TrueBrain> there we go :)
20:20:19  <_dp_> is it too much to ask for antialiasing on lines? :)
20:20:30  <TrueBrain> PRs are still very welcome :)
20:21:05  <_dp_> 8bpp makes aa tricky :(
20:21:15  <TrueBrain> see it as a challenge :P
20:21:33  <TrueBrain> or, just remove the 8bpp blitter! :D
20:22:26  <_dp_> yeah, that's probably the right thing to do
20:22:44  <_dp_> will allow aa and opacity
20:22:59  <TrueBrain> I honestly wonder if there is a downside of doing that :P
20:23:10  <Samu> _dp_, did I use tuple correctly? asking especially regarding emplace_back
20:23:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone commented on pull request #8006: Codechange: Increase scrollbar length limit to UINT_MAX and make their length properly unsigned
20:23:22  <_dp_> also tree shading
20:23:43  <TrueBrain> seem LordAro was hiding 2 mistakes in that PR :D
20:23:56  <_dp_> Samu, looks fine to me
20:24:10  <Samu> nice, thx
20:25:10  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities
20:25:17  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8006: Codechange: Increase scrollbar length limit to UINT_MAX and make their length properly unsigned
20:25:22  <andythenorth> if you change cargo rate graph, pls send message
20:25:22  <TrueBrain> glx: \o/
20:25:27  * andythenorth will have a lot of colouring to do
20:25:37  <andythenorth> 'probably fine'
20:28:53  * andythenorth considers 'camo' livery
20:29:00  <andythenorth> vehicle blends into background perfectly
20:29:06  <andythenorth> stealth mode
20:29:20  <_dp_> TrueBrain, probably a good time to remove 8bpp, if no one misses it in rc/beta call it fine ;)
20:29:54  <_dp_> though it would be fun to have no perfectly correct blitter at all xD
20:30:11  <andythenorth> can we have micropayments in the game?
20:30:34  <supermop_Home> andy i forgot to consider Great Northern from Twin Peaks for Hotel inspiration
20:30:35  <andythenorth> "unlock more vehicle liveries for £0.99
20:30:44  <Wolf01> Only if you add lootboxes
20:30:48  <andythenorth> oof
20:30:53  <TrueBrain> lootboxes would fix the game, yes!
20:30:58  * andythenorth dislikes lootboxes greatly
20:31:05  <andythenorth> Blitz very big on them
20:31:15  <andythenorth> Lootbox: £40, tank drop chance 4%
20:31:24  <andythenorth> preys on people who can't maths
20:31:31  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8539: Graph Window - Colors of the mauve, dark green and purple companies are barely visible
20:31:46  <supermop_Home> how a bout a mystery box sent to your house that may contain legos or a OO scale train?
20:32:30  <supermop_Home> andythenorth i think they are a legal way to prey on people addicted to gambling who might be underage
20:32:35  <Wolf01> I want a full scale train
20:32:50  <supermop_Home> Wolf01 maybe there is a very small change of that
20:33:42  <supermop_Home> sell 1000 boxes for 0 USD, one box gets a locomotive and the rest get a sticker of the locomotive
20:33:43  <TrueBrain> lol, graphs look weird for the first year of operating .. and with emscripten, it takes for-ever to fast-forward 1 year :D
20:34:21  <TrueBrain> year = quarter, typing hard
20:35:39  <michi_cc> The keys are like right next to each other :P
20:36:16  <TrueBrain> well, my brain-keyboard interface is acting up
20:36:29  <TrueBrain> my brain is quicker than my hands, really annoying :D
20:36:30  <_dp_> TrueBrain, have you tried using darker grid lines on dark bg btw?
20:36:56  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8548: Dump info console commands
20:37:06  <andythenorth> I really don't want lootboxes for liveries
20:37:07  <TrueBrain> _dp_: I did not; I was happy with this :P
20:37:10  <andythenorth> but can GS do lootboxes
20:37:15  * andythenorth wonders
20:37:46  <TrueBrain> _dp_: I am going to leave it completely to LC-Zorg how to tune colours .. it is pretty clear to me he knows a lot more about UI/UX design than I do, so yeah .. :)
20:39:02  <Wolf01> Just random buy something in players' depots
20:41:44  <_dp_> just embed browser already and use highcharts :p
20:42:06  <andythenorth> why are we talking about graphs instead of lootboxes?
20:42:30  <frosch123> andythenorth: you spend too much time on discord
20:42:40  <andythenorth> discord is fun
20:42:56  <andythenorth> a current fun game, how many times a day "JGR has added x"
20:43:00  <andythenorth> where x is a feature in basegame
20:43:11  <TrueBrain> _dp_: that would be lovely :)
20:43:17  <TrueBrain> when is the PR done? :P :P
20:43:47  <TrueBrain> hover-over effect, proper tooltip, scaling by clicking
20:43:51  <TrueBrain> those things would be nice :D
20:43:56  <frosch123> ah, i only considered adding a http server to ottd for attaching a grf debugger
20:43:57  * _dp_ has enough stuff to do in 2021 :p
20:44:02  <frosch123> but attaching grafana also works
20:44:20  <TrueBrain> grafana, you go even further :P
20:44:35  <TrueBrain> well, the game runs in emscripten, so why not reverse it: make it browser only, makes embedding of these things easier :P
20:44:42  <TrueBrain> also solves most things related to security :D
20:46:03  <TrueBrain> <- almost down to 2 ... :D
20:46:16  <TrueBrain> but I guess the beta has to wait till we got code signing functional
20:47:03  <frosch123> that could mean anything between "tomorrow" and "in 3 years" :p
20:47:24  <TrueBrain> very true
20:47:43  <TrueBrain> we can also just release beta1 soon-ish, and beta2 when ever signing is done :P
20:47:48  <TrueBrain> or RC1, what-ever
20:48:46  <TrueBrain> for some reason, the best addition to 1.11 for me is going to be the new buttons in the window ... it feels so much cleaner :)
20:48:58  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8548: Dump info console commands
20:49:15  <andythenorth> creates space for vehicle livery button as well :)
20:49:18  <glx> <-- I guess it's ok if they use our images in their regression
20:49:19  * andythenorth draws paint scheme icon
20:50:13  <TrueBrain> glx: I guess it is not compatible with GPLv2, so the author has to explicitly say "yes" to that, I guess :) (but you knew that I think :D)
20:50:16  <TrueBrain> +already
20:51:04  <TrueBrain> wait, today is 2020.01.11 .. we should release beta1 today .. 1.11 .. get it? Dammit :P Missed opportunities!!
20:51:25  <LordAro> TrueBrain: there's still time!
20:51:37  <TrueBrain> but there are PRs to merge! :)
20:51:45  <TrueBrain> and PRs to fix .. that don't crash the game :P
20:51:49  <LordAro> they can be in beta2!
20:51:52  <TrueBrain> *looking at you LordAro :P*
20:51:57  <LordAro> D:
20:52:07  <TrueBrain> I clicked "Content Service"
20:52:09  <TrueBrain> it crashed
20:52:09  <TrueBrain> :D
20:52:17  <Timberwolf> Heh. beta1, all it does is crash on launch.
20:52:28  <TrueBrain> sounds like a successful beta to me :D
20:53:10  <Timberwolf> I could contribute one of my accidents where I made v->next point to v in the vehicle chain, that went well.
20:53:38  <TrueBrain> :D
20:54:27  <frosch123> i saw some c library that used that convention to terminate linked lists
20:54:39  <frosch123> 0 was used to detect invalid/uninitialised
20:55:11  <frosch123> but when people did not use the correct loop macros :p
20:56:01  <TrueBrain> haha
20:56:09  <TrueBrain> at least use "1" for termination in that case
20:56:19  <TrueBrain> I mean ... all pointers in the first page give the same error, so that is all fine :)
20:56:24  <TrueBrain> in = to, what-ever
20:58:11  <_dp_> at least with v != v->next mistakes should be easy to catch on a first run :p
20:58:13  <frosch123> anyway, favorite 1.11 change is the "show group name in vehicle title bar instead of 'train'". i like ideas that anyone could have had in the past 15 years
20:58:30  <frosch123> favorite community contribution was the "detault settings discussion"
20:58:39  <frosch123> that really worked. the others less so
20:59:01  <TrueBrain> yeah, that discussion was surprisingly productive :)
20:59:28  <TrueBrain> I hope GitHub soon iterates over Discussions ... would be nice :)
21:02:02  <_2TallTyler> I want Discussions in the mobile app too. They are useful.
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21:03:47  <Eddi|zuHause>  <TrueBrain> wait, today is 2020.01.11 <- you got an obiwan there
21:03:53  <TrueBrain> oops
21:03:56  <andythenorth> my experience, selling a discussions tool for money, is that about 2 in 10 work
21:04:00  <andythenorth> and 1 in 10 really works
21:04:42  <TrueBrain> and yours is ...... ? :D
21:04:44  <TrueBrain> :P :D
21:05:02  <andythenorth> my discussions fell into the 80% fail
21:05:14  <andythenorth> unless you mean 'what is your tool?'
21:05:58  <TrueBrain> I mean, how you write it, is that 1 out of 10 discussion tools only work
21:06:08  <TrueBrain> so I was wondering where your tool was on that spectrum :D
21:06:22  <andythenorth> nah, 1 in 10 of topics :P
21:06:31  <TrueBrain> context is everything my friend :D
21:06:45  <andythenorth> I mean, words and things
21:06:48  <andythenorth> could be better
21:07:18  <TrueBrain> its funny how much difficulties AIs have to find context .. such nice papers written about that
21:07:26  <TrueBrain> language is so vastly more complex than we think :)
21:07:37  <Samu> Check Online Content, Search external websites - what is this button for
21:07:40  <andythenorth> we tried doing LSA on people's opinions about stuff, like 'do they like this film'
21:07:47  <andythenorth> we thought it would be hard and fail
21:07:48  <Samu> it feels outdated
21:07:49  <andythenorth> it is and does
21:09:14  <frosch123> the "fun" part of selling a "discussion tool" is when you also use it internally
21:09:51  <frosch123> then users have direct contact to developers, and the larger the company, the more people who do not know how to give constructive feedback :)
21:09:57  <andythenorth> ours doesn't have enough cat gifs
21:10:02  <andythenorth> that was my conclusion
21:10:17  <frosch123> cat emoji style?
21:10:28  <andythenorth> unicode support demanded
21:10:44  <andythenorth> maybe it should just be a discord client :P
21:10:55  <frosch123> unicode-modifier "cat": draw the following emoji with a cat face
21:11:00  <Timberwolf> AI is mostly an engine for efficiently repeating what happened in the past.
21:11:33  <frosch123> Timberwolf: that does not exclude humans being the same
21:11:34  <andythenorth> T-shirt slogan!
21:11:39  <andythenorth> both
21:11:41  <Timberwolf> Heh.
21:11:41  <andythenorth> front and back
21:11:42  <Timberwolf> Yes.
21:11:42  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] tpetazzoni commented on issue #8054: Automatic spacing in timetables not working
21:11:57  <Timberwolf> Humans are an engine for inefficiently repeating what happened in the past, while being annoyed about it.
21:12:00  <andythenorth> oof very hard not to troll that issue
21:12:19  <andythenorth> 'just get JGR' :P
21:12:50  <Timberwolf> That's 2020. The 2021 version is "but it worked in Joker's"
21:13:00  <andythenorth> oh yeah, that raises the game
21:13:15  <andythenorth> Well played
21:13:18  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kuhnovic updated pull request #8550: Feature: "Remove all industries" button in scenario editor
21:13:30  * andythenorth more t-shirts
21:13:38  <andythenorth> OpenTTD merchandise store?
21:13:55  <andythenorth> hmm, forget livery spec, time to integrate shopify
21:14:10  <Timberwolf> andythenorth: Can I have a "it looks off next to the ground tiles"?
21:14:17  <andythenorth> Timberwolf that's all yours
21:14:23  <andythenorth> I think red baseball caps might be cheap now?
21:14:54  <andythenorth> Make Abase Great Again
21:16:03  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 merged pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities
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21:17:40  <andythenorth> \o/
21:17:53  <frosch123> what do you think, will i find the eints button?
21:18:28  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kuhnovic commented on pull request #8550: Feature: "Remove all industries" button in scenario editor
21:18:58  <frosch123> i pressed a button, let's see what happens
21:19:08  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I am sure you are capable :)
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21:19:33  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8548: Dump info console commands
21:19:38  <TrueBrain> <- I do not understand the issue ... but I also realised I do not understand timetables :D
21:19:50  <frosch123> TrueBrain: definitely, the question is just "capable of breaking things" or what
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21:21:03  <TrueBrain> well, mostly, I do not see what is suppose to work on Windows that is not on Linux (as I somewhat doubt that is the case)
21:21:03  <andythenorth> TrueBrain "Automatic spacing in timetables not working "
21:21:08  <andythenorth> you can stop with the title
21:21:15  <andythenorth> I have never seen it working
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21:21:23  <andythenorth> even when following explicit instructions
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21:21:33  <TrueBrain> that is way too easy to dismiss the bug over that
21:21:34  <andythenorth> and even when it is working, it doesn't seem to do what players want
21:21:49  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison updated pull request #8548: Dump info console commands
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21:22:54  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i would expect that start-date thingie only works when the vehicles are not-stopped. but i also do not use that feature, so no idea
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21:23:14  <Heiki> ohh, so many new strings to translate
21:23:16  *** Westie has joined #openttd
21:23:40  <andythenorth> I would favour throwing it out in favour of or JGR's implementation
21:23:48  <andythenorth> but I am a bit of an arsonist
21:23:48  <TrueBrain> I am running Linux client and Windows client side-by-side (thank you WSL2), and I do not see any difference in behaviour
21:23:58  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
21:23:59  <DorpsGek>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
21:24:14  <frosch123> 5 minutes, i got worried
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21:24:22  <TrueBrain> frosch123: it is very slow :)
21:24:43  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I am not interested in if timetables are broken or not; the interesting part is that the user sees a difference between OSes
21:25:59  <_dp_> if there was a difference players would desync constantly
21:26:18  <andythenorth> I'll try the save on mac
21:26:34  <andythenorth> I never ever saw timetable magic working, no matter how many times I pressed the magic button
21:28:24  <Samu> where is wiki?
21:29:14  <Xaroth> ?
21:29:40  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8054: Automatic spacing in timetables not working
21:29:41  <Samu> ah, ok thanks
21:29:44  <glx> TrueBrain: pillow uses HPND and it's listed as compatible with GPL on
21:30:11  <TrueBrain> glx: owh really? Interesting :D Well, that makes it easier ;) Still, nicest thing to do is ask the original author if it is okay, I guess :)
21:37:49  <frosch123> <- there is a detailed author overview for ogfx, if you need
21:38:07  <frosch123> but probably too complicated
21:39:58  <andythenorth> how do I know if timetables are working?
21:40:08  <andythenorth> there are 4 buses, sometimes they queue, sometimes they don't
21:40:12  <TrueBrain> especially as they basically want to relicense the 3 files, that might be nice; I guess they don't want to add the GPLv2 license for these 3 files glx :)
21:42:03  <glx> files are from opengfx+ not opengfx
21:42:14  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] tpetazzoni commented on issue #8054: Automatic spacing in timetables not working
21:44:13  <TrueBrain> either I was very unclear, or people just don't read .. shrug :P
21:44:52  <frosch123> <- they list licenses for fonts
21:45:48  <frosch123> they have similar license.txt in other folders, but not in the main folder
21:48:24  <Samu> question about this button
21:48:44  <Samu> why does it exist
21:49:41  <Samu> the site doesn't look maintained
21:50:04  <frosch123> TrueBrain: going by that 3rd comment, they ctrl key is broken on linux
21:50:16  * andythenorth wondered
21:50:43  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #7615: "medium_font" setting is not applied properly in korean
21:51:33  <TrueBrain> frosch123: well, there is an odd thing, that if you ctrl+click the button for one vehicle, it doesn't show on the others. If you click it on another, it resets the first. No clue if that is intentional, but ctrl+click works otherwise just fine
21:51:38  <TrueBrain> but the report is just very unclear to me :P
21:51:44  <TrueBrain> especially the linux vs windows :)
21:53:21  <TrueBrain> if ctrl is not working I would expect that to be an issue in more places, honestly
21:55:04  <TrueBrain> I love the "you can clearly see" in the font issue .. as I just go: I can see what exactly?! :P :D
21:57:34  <TrueBrain> lol @ "git log" .. "timetable", first hit, 2020 .. next hit, 2015
21:57:36  <TrueBrain> :D
22:00:21  <Eddi|zuHause> that means nothing happened in 4 years :p
22:03:09  <glx> hmm if my search work is correct, it seems DanMacK is the author of the graphics (
22:05:04  <frosch123> huh, what repo is that?
22:05:18  <glx> opengfx+
22:05:19  <frosch123> there are individual repos for ogfx+trains and ogfx+rvs
22:05:25  <frosch123> no idea what that one is
22:08:24  <TrueBrain> some more debugging between Windows and Linux, they both equally do weird shit with timetables, depending a bit where orders of vehicles were etci :P
22:08:49  *** Samu has quit IRC
22:09:20  <glx> TrueBrain: undefined behaviour of compiler ?
22:09:31  <TrueBrain> no, they are both equally sucky
22:09:35  <TrueBrain> no difference to find
22:09:45  <glx> ah, that's a good thing ;)
22:09:47  <TrueBrain> equally is important in that sentence
22:10:17  <LordAro> TrueBrain: have you not found the "if (!linux()) { do_separate(); } code yet?
22:12:39  <TrueBrain> :D
22:12:48  <TrueBrain> well, if timetables work, it sure does look like magic :D
22:13:19  <frosch123> night
22:13:22  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
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22:16:02  <glx> so I think I'll just ask DanMacK for the permission to use the include the files in pillow
22:16:30  <glx> s/use the//
22:16:36  <TrueBrain> sounds like the right thing to do :)
22:16:42  <TrueBrain> otherwise tell them to add a license file for those files :D
22:21:15  <andythenorth> is nap?
22:21:44  <andythenorth> glx if it is Dan he won't mind
22:21:59  <andythenorth> guaranteed, I will say the sorrys and pay the lawyer fees if I'm wrong
22:22:22  <glx> still nicer to ask
22:23:03  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8054: Automatic spacing in timetables not working
22:23:17  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: that is -not- how licencing works silly bee :)
22:24:39  <TrueBrain> for sure that bug is not a linux vs windows issue
22:24:44  <TrueBrain> it could be an SDL issue
22:24:54  <TrueBrain> but everything is game-play wise working as expected
22:26:22  <TrueBrain> that timetable window is horrible in terms of UX
22:26:22  <andythenorth> glx you can DM danmack in forums and see if he replies
22:26:37  <glx> that's what I'm doing
22:26:45  <TrueBrain> some buttons trigger on what you selected in the list, but it is not like the top row or the bottom
22:26:50  <andythenorth> I did look in his sig if he had anything about licensing
22:26:52  <TrueBrain> no, the left 4 are ..
22:27:16  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: when was the last time i said the whole order GUI is in dire need of a restructuring? :p
22:27:24  * andythenorth tries really hard not to improve Truebrain's line
22:27:30  * andythenorth will get kicked
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22:27:44  <andythenorth> nope, can't help myself: "that timetable window is horrible"
22:27:46  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: what-ever he would have in his sig, it wouldn't matter; we can not relicense his work without his permission :D
22:27:58  <TrueBrain> well, there is horrible, and there is: this is just an absolutely fuck-fest :P
22:28:09  <TrueBrain> sorry to who-ever made it, I am sure you did your at most with the tools you had
22:28:25  <TrueBrain> but this is so counter-intuitive :)
22:28:25  <andythenorth> well I think it has the problem of not stepping back and asking 'why'
22:28:30  <andythenorth> full stop, just why?
22:28:44  <TrueBrain> I don'ti care about the feature itself; I am bitching about the UI :)
22:28:56  <andythenorth> yes but the UI is usually just lipstick on underlying concept
22:28:57  <TrueBrain> some simply things could drasticly improve what is going on, honestly :)
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22:29:08  <andythenorth> the underlying concept makes no sense at all
22:29:17  <TrueBrain> 2 buttons have ctrl modifiers
22:29:20  <TrueBrain> others 6 do not
22:29:25  <TrueBrain> 4 react on selected order, others do not
22:29:29  <andythenorth> nobody has ever explained how the vehicles run faster or slower to stay on time
22:29:34  <TrueBrain> if only when you press CTRL the text would change
22:29:35  <andythenorth> I still don't get that mechanic
22:29:36  <TrueBrain> that would help
22:29:52  <TrueBrain> a line between "based on order selection" and other buttons would help
22:30:20  <TrueBrain> when you press "autofill", that the text changing into "Autofilling ..." or something would help
22:30:32  <TrueBrain> so many little things that would make the UI more .. understandable :)
22:30:50  <LordAro> andythenorth: afaik, they just wait longer at the station, rather than actually moving any slower
22:30:55  <TrueBrain> but mostly, this ctrl-modifier shit is just shit :P
22:31:07  <LordAro> but like most people, i've never really got it to work successfully
22:31:15  <TrueBrain> "Ctrl+click to try to keep waiting times"
22:31:18  <TrueBrain> how do you mean, "try"?
22:31:21  <TrueBrain> what does this tell me? :D
22:31:25  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: they can't move faster
22:31:39  <andythenorth> well how the hell do they stay on time then?
22:31:55  <LordAro> poorly
22:32:05  <LordAro> or wait a really long time until they're ontime again
22:32:07  <Eddi|zuHause> by leaving as soon as they can, if they have waitingtime on stations
22:32:09  <TrueBrain> "Reset the lateness counter, so the vehicle will be on time" <- what magic button is this? :D
22:32:24  <Eddi|zuHause> that's why after autofill you have to manually increase station waiting time
22:32:29  <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise they can never catch up
22:32:33  <andythenorth> wat?
22:32:37  <andythenorth> so autofill...doesn't?
22:32:57  <andythenorth> I mean it's not that I hate the feature, in case irc makes me seem angry about it
22:33:04  <andythenorth> I just think it's unbelievably lol
22:33:08  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i requested an "autofill should add 20%" setting, but that was denied
22:33:18  <andythenorth> it's a flawed implementation of a poor concept with a crap UI
22:33:21  <TrueBrain> it might be a good feature, just poorly documented in-game what you can expect from it :)
22:33:36  <TrueBrain> like, my dates are now red ... no clue what it means
22:33:40  <TrueBrain> I have no real feedback over it
22:33:45  <TrueBrain> sometimes it is green
22:33:48  <TrueBrain> that must be important
22:33:51  <TrueBrain> but than only 1 is green
22:34:10  <Eddi|zuHause> also, autofill with empty stations is "broken", because it'll underestimate the waiting time
22:34:27  * andythenorth whistles innocently
22:34:40  <TrueBrain> Finances UI has a bug where if you are in the red, the most left 2 pixels drop off your balance
22:34:42  <TrueBrain> looks funny
22:35:22  <TrueBrain> <- notice the lack of shadow on the 9? :D
22:37:15  <TrueBrain> spotting the important bugs here!
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22:39:00  <LordAro> that is important!
22:39:17  <andythenorth> I made a helpful picture :D
22:39:35  <Eddi|zuHause> is that above or below missing earrings in importance?
22:40:01  <andythenorth> oops my screenshot failed to include the PR number for 8342 (after JGR)
22:40:03  <andythenorth> silly andythenorth
22:40:11  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: automatic separation and timetables are 2 different things; the latter can do the first, sort of, but it also does more :)
22:40:28  <andythenorth> yes!
22:40:56  <Eddi|zuHause> automatic separation tends to have effects that backfire in traffic jams
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22:41:08  <andythenorth> discord says it's perfect! :D
22:41:15  <andythenorth> I broke 8342
22:41:22  <andythenorth> but not reproducibly
22:41:35  <TrueBrain> do stations have a window where you can see expected arrival times?
22:41:44  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i'm sure it's "well tested"
22:42:11  <Eddi|zuHause> but i've never found a version of "automatic separation" that i didn't immediately want to disable
22:42:33  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: there were at least 2 patches for that
22:42:40  <TrueBrain> I am not surprised :D
22:42:49  <andythenorth> there's a realtime departure board in JGR
22:42:58  <andythenorth> not sure what it does, but it looks fancy
22:43:29  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: are you sure you want to descend into the rabbit hole that is timetable patches? :p
22:43:47  <andythenorth> they're much demanded
22:43:52  <andythenorth> this is a big thing currently
22:43:59  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but they also might make you insane
22:44:15  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: always when I open these topics, I close them
22:44:18  <Eddi|zuHause> as they're tied into controversial issues like daylength and 24h clocks
22:44:22  <TrueBrain> there is nothing there for me to udnerstand what the topic is about
22:44:29  <TrueBrain> lot of text ... but reading forum text is annoying as fuck
22:44:35  <andythenorth> TL;DR
22:44:41  <TrueBrain> people should add more pictures
22:44:48  <TrueBrain> and forum should become more 2021 styled :)
22:45:05  <Eddi|zuHause> and people trying to make realtime realistic networks where daylength is so long to match the 24h cycle, and rebuilding real s-bahn networks with original timetables
22:45:07  <andythenorth> oh do you not have the default PHPBB theme option?
22:45:26  * andythenorth changed the forums to some standard theme 10 years ago, and never looked back
22:45:44  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause making exact replicas is very in vogue
22:46:01  <andythenorth> 1:1 daylength and realistic timetables
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22:47:51  <Eddi|zuHause> on that note, i'm very in favour of a 24h clock, as it decouples timetables from weird date quirks like uneven month lengths, so you can actually set up repeating patterns without going insane
22:48:25  <andythenorth>
22:48:34  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause just use JGR
22:49:11  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i've got so many savegames from various patchpacks that i'm unsure i'm ever going to be able to load again
22:49:15  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] tpetazzoni commented on issue #8054: Automatic spacing in timetables not working
22:49:25  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: I did not realise it yet, but yes, the dates in timetable does make me a bit insane when I want to use it
22:49:31  <TrueBrain> that is not helping, that way of presenting the information :)
22:51:36  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause
22:52:04  <andythenorth> now I've switched, nearly everything we've talked about for last 10 years....JGR has just....done
22:52:08  <Eddi|zuHause> how do i tell google that "itim" is not a misspelling of "item"?
22:52:10  <andythenorth> templates are done
22:52:16  <andythenorth> partial loading is sort of done
22:52:25  <andythenorth> autoseparate is done
22:53:24  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: in the pre-JGR eras, the time could be shown as both date AND time
22:54:36  <Eddi|zuHause> because, i like the date, and it's useful for putting savegames in sequential order
22:54:40  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause ?
22:55:03  <andythenorth> custom bridgeheads
22:55:06  <andythenorth> bridges over stations
22:55:09  <andythenorth> mac performance
22:55:28  <andythenorth> selective load / unload so cdist actually works completely
22:55:53  <andythenorth> the only problems are that a one-man project isn't long-term sustainable
22:56:01  <andythenorth> and I can't use anything in JGRPP without asking discord for help
22:56:19  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: which is why i have a collection of a half dozen savegames from equally many patchpacks
22:56:28  <andythenorth> +1
22:56:56  <andythenorth> but if you wanted the feature...there it is, working implementation to look at
22:57:11  <andythenorth> templates in JGR is really quite instructive
22:57:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i've played with this feature long before JGR came around...
22:57:31  <andythenorth> (template vehicle consists)
22:58:20  <Eddi|zuHause> it was "working" alright, many many years ago. just the UI was growing ever more horrible
22:59:36  <andythenorth> patchpacks ftw
23:00:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i was putting some hopes into
23:00:24  <Eddi|zuHause> but it might be a bit over the top?
23:01:14  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause my google understands "Itim"
23:01:22  <andythenorth> but I have an improved post-brexit google
23:01:34  <andythenorth> my data is now managed according to California law
23:02:42  <Eddi|zuHause> there's also
23:04:01  <andythenorth> JGR's is
23:04:29  <andythenorth> and
23:05:08  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: "autoseparation" is not the same thing
23:05:28  <Eddi|zuHause> really, i'd say "autoseparation" is the opposite of "timetables"
23:05:40  <andythenorth> so it's not just me thinking that then
23:05:59  *** Wolf01 has quit IRC
23:06:15  <Eddi|zuHause> autoseparation is a "just make it work" button
23:06:23  <andythenorth> I think that's the exact conceptual difference
23:06:49  <Eddi|zuHause> whereas timetables is a "i want to carefully adjust everything until it works"
23:06:52  <andythenorth> which is why bundling the two things together just seems like head->desk
23:07:23  <andythenorth> in my silly opinion
23:10:06  <Timberwolf> I want the annoying middle option, "let me schedule how long the station stops are, everything else automagically works"
23:11:03  <Eddi|zuHause> Timberwolf: how is that supposed to work, if varying station wait times are the only thing that can be used to resynchronize vehicles?
23:12:27  <Timberwolf> Mostly as a baseline. Like, "once these are separated, this is how long they should wait at each stop"
23:13:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure, did we add a "apply this wait time to all stations" button?
23:22:58  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
23:34:24  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8006: Codechange: Increase scrollbar length limit to UINT_MAX and make their length properly unsigned
23:43:59  <_dp_> ok, I found my townsim bug, now 8507 makes no noticeable difference

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