Log for #openttd on 28th January 2021:
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00:17:09  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on issue #8592: Goods not able to split to multiple destinations from one station
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02:29:32  <supermop_Home> so I forgot to add my new Street roadtype to my roadtype table... but it still works?
02:29:43  <supermop_Home> is the roadtype table deprecated?
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02:46:37  <Eddi|zuHause> you don't need a roadtype table to define roadtypes. you need a roadtype table to define vehicles (well, you don't technically NEED need it, but it doesn't make much sense without)
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09:40:39  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: what are the commands on MacOS to extract a .dmg? :D
09:42:40  <andythenorth> oof
09:42:44  <andythenorth> I can look them up
09:42:53  <TrueBrain> I couldn't find easy commands :P
09:42:59  <andythenorth> I just double click :P
09:43:00  <TrueBrain> and p7zip is too old to understand the dmg format
09:43:05  <TrueBrain> so I can't on linux either
09:44:36  <andythenorth> hdiutil on macos
09:44:39  <andythenorth> allegedly
09:45:31  <TrueBrain> yeah, that magically mounts it and stuff ..
09:45:35  <TrueBrain> I just want to extract :P
09:45:41  <TrueBrain> but if you have working commands, that works for me too :)
09:45:54  <TrueBrain> I should install macOS on a VM to be able to test these things honestly :P
09:46:25  <andythenorth> it's not something I've ever had need to do
09:46:31  <andythenorth> not finding much on google
09:49:05  <TrueBrain> hmm ... okay, I have a bunch more questions, but they come down to: give me access to your machine .. time to install a VM :)
09:50:20  <andythenorth> mac mini, 699 Euro or something
09:50:40  <TrueBrain> yeah, not a big fan of expensive book-holders :P
09:50:43  <andythenorth> you can probably put ARM Windows on it soon!
09:50:47  <andythenorth> such
09:50:52  * andythenorth should go and do work
09:50:58  <andythenorth> interviewing engineers and stuff
09:51:03  <TrueBrain> enjoy!
09:51:11  <andythenorth> *still* hiring
09:51:19  <andythenorth> "pls send engineers"
09:51:22  <andythenorth> BBL
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10:13:18  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I am a bit shocked ... beta1 has been downloaded more than a few times now, and there are not that many bug reports .. guess we didn't blow up the new version completely :P
10:15:59  <_dp_> about 10 of those times are me :p
10:17:33  <_dp_> oh, there finally a beta server...
10:17:38  <_dp_> but it's passworded :(
10:18:56  <TrueBrain> I do love the servername :P
10:18:57  <TrueBrain> haha
10:25:14  <Timberwolf> I've been using beta1 for video recording and testing train sets, not noticed anything amiss yet.
10:25:41  <Timberwolf> Videos tend to be quite good at showing up any unexpected sprite rendering bugs that you don't notice while playing normally :)
10:26:44  <TrueBrain> all good news :D
10:26:54  <Timberwolf> Also at making you realise quite how many news messages and alerts you miss because you're focusing on a completely different area of the screen.
10:27:17  <Timberwolf> I thought it was just me being rubbish but then I saw it happen on one of Hellish's videos too :()
10:28:23  <_dp_> I tried to configure alerts but they're still are just spam usually
10:30:13  <_dp_> Even smth like "train lost" pops up quite often after you've already fixed the issue
10:30:28  <_dp_> And "ship lost" is just a meme at this poitn
10:32:00  <_dp_> also, on "aircraft crashed" I very much miss the "who cares, just buy another one" button :p
10:32:57  <Timberwolf> Need an "iron man" parameter accessible from newgrf, so I can make the game delete your save if you ever crash horses into each other.
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10:36:19  <_dp_> hm, that's doable on a server xD
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10:49:27  <TrueBrain> okay, I can compile OpenTTD with the steam-runtime .. now how to test it ... :D
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11:07:38  <TrueBrain> via WSL2 you can start Steam, but the window remains black :D It complains about lack of decent OpenGL support .. shocker :P
11:13:58  <orudge> [21:08:09] <TrueBrain> orudge: what kind of media do you need for the Microsoft Store? <-- I'll need to look into that; there are various optional things that we currently don't fulfil
11:14:22  <TrueBrain> let me know .. I have a lot of assets now, not all "great", but I also have a few people that expressed the will to help out :)
11:14:46  <TrueBrain> I think I will make a repo for these assets soon, just to have a single place we keep those
11:15:26  <orudge> Just having a look now
11:15:46  <orudge> It's my intention to try to get the appx building (maybe even publishing, if MS allows it) working via GitHub Actions
11:16:12  <TrueBrain> I am going to do the same for Steam :)
11:16:30  <TrueBrain> currently trying to install macOS in a VM here, to see how to do that, but ........... the guides are not really helpful so far :P
11:17:01  <orudge> OK, screenshots are welcome for a start (up to 10). 9:16 poster art, 720 x 1080 or 1440 x 2160
11:17:08  <orudge> 1:1 box art, 1080 x 1080 or 2160 x 2160
11:17:11  <orudge> 1:1 app tile icon, 300 x 300
11:17:23  <orudge> the latter is only required for Windows Pghhone which we don't support, so scrap that
11:17:27  <TrueBrain> please put this in a gist :D
11:24:14  <orudge>
11:26:09  <TrueBrain> <3
11:26:12  <TrueBrain> will see what I can do!
11:26:28  <TrueBrain> orudge: would you have like 10 minutes to help me out with some macOS cpack questions?
11:26:38  <TrueBrain> as it seems this installer is not installing :D
11:30:17  <TrueBrain> okay, OpenTTD runs in the steam-runtime .. just without ICU, fluidsynth, lzma, and a few others :D
11:30:29  <TrueBrain> so next step, seeing if I can get those to work too :D
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12:38:41  <orudge> TrueBrain: if those macOS changes are publihsed, hopefully Steam would work - I can test
12:39:09  <TrueBrain> andy already tested the build on Steam works; that was not my question really :D
12:39:11  <orudge> Oh
12:39:13  <orudge> Right, OK
12:39:15  <TrueBrain> I need to know what CPack is doing :P
12:39:16  <orudge> also, if you want to remove my personal account from the publisher site, I can activate the beta key
12:39:19  <orudge> OK
12:39:21  <orudge> Then sure
12:39:27  <TrueBrain> after cpack run in a build folder
12:39:31  <TrueBrain> is there an folder left behind?
12:39:35  <orudge> Yes
12:39:42  <TrueBrain> if I would be to zip that, would that just work?
12:39:45  <TrueBrain> is there anything missing?
12:39:51  <orudge> Well, I'm not sure. The notarization takes place on the .dmg.
12:40:05  <TrueBrain> hmm ...
12:40:09  <orudge> We might want to notarize the .zip separately, I'd need to look into how that works.
12:40:21  <orudge> as in, we can zip up manually, then notarize that
12:40:23  <TrueBrain> for Steam I need an "extracted" dmg, basically
12:40:27  <orudge> but in theory, it might well be fine
12:40:39  <TrueBrain> but if we can notarize zips too, that would be ideal
12:40:44  <TrueBrain> would you have the time to look into that?
12:41:01  <orudge> Did Andy test Steam on an M1? If not, I might do that, since M1 is where we had the issues with it anyway
12:41:04  <TrueBrain> some people prefer .zip distribution for macOS anyway
12:41:05  <orudge> It may be there's nothing else we really need to do
12:41:08  <orudge> Mm
12:41:25  <TrueBrain> on Steam I published 1.10.3, won't work on M1 (well, in full emulation it works, ofc)
12:41:38  <TrueBrain> but that is pre-cmake
12:41:51  <orudge> Ah right
12:41:51  <orudge> OK
12:42:12  <TrueBrain> basically, I need a notarized zip-file with the game in there, that works as if you double-clicked it locally
12:42:28  <TrueBrain> I see two routes: make the zip after cpack from the folder, and notarize that
12:42:31  <TrueBrain> or extract the dmg
12:42:49  <TrueBrain> 7zip on Windows can do the latter, but the Linux version is (4 years) behind, and cannot
12:43:02  <TrueBrain> via macOS .. hdiutil is tricky to test out without having a macOS available :)
12:43:15  <TrueBrain> but that might be as well a solid solution
12:43:23  <orudge> I can make it put together a zip
12:43:31  <TrueBrain> that would be most clean, honestly
12:43:48  <orudge> Probably we can notarize the app itself first, then make the zip from that, then notarize the .dmg from cpack
12:44:50  <TrueBrain> well, what-ever works, I would say :D
12:46:49  <TrueBrain> orudge: you can now use the product key I send you :)
12:48:41  <TrueBrain> okay, figured out how we can distribute our own libraries on Steam for Linux .. now to compile the missing libraries :P
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13:34:35  <supermop_Home_> hello
13:43:56  <supermop_Home_> well no egregious problems reported from the 8 people who downloaded the new roads
13:46:18  <Samu> can someone get involved in 7918? it's been 13 days :(
13:49:29  <TrueBrain> supermop_Home_: so .. cake time? :D
13:55:37  <supermop_Home_> TrueBrain I don't have any cake at my apartment but I do have cookies!
13:55:48  <TrueBrain> well, cookies will do fine too :D
13:59:51  <supermop_Home_> finally starting this game in 1912 and then just playing to gradually grow two cities to test these streets has led to some very nice improved town layouts neighborhoods
14:00:48  <supermop_Home_> perhaps starting in 1990s onwards and trying to serve all houses of a town prevents it from working it's magic
14:02:52  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] WhitePassRanger commented on issue #8592: Goods not able to split to multiple destinations from one station
14:02:55  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] WhitePassRanger closed issue #8592: Goods not able to split to multiple destinations from one station
14:06:35  <TrueBrain> lol .. "I believe there are at least two issues to be solved here:" .. author of issue closes issue with a big tnx :D
14:09:29  <supermop_Home_> so level crossing sprites are exclusively provided by railtype, or is there some chunk of the stack that the roadtype can provide?
14:09:49  <supermop_Home_> (clearly it provides the road underlay at least)
14:11:08  <supermop_Home_> i presume there is no way i can replace whatever the rail tries to provide
14:11:11  <Eddi|zuHause> there's two very different ways of providing level crossing sprites. one is a fixed complete sprite, and one is composed from underlay and overlay
14:11:35  <supermop_Home_> Eddi|zuHause are both of those provided by railtype?
14:12:42  <supermop_Home_> i seem to recall early in NRT there was some mention of defining the level crossing road sprites... but they never seemed to do anything? currently in spec they are not mentioned
14:12:49  <Eddi|zuHause> no, the "complete" way is much older than railtypes, and in practice only used by the default railtypes
14:14:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not really up to date with how this was adapted for roadtypes. but the railtype defines which of the two methods it uses
14:14:49  <supermop_Home_> i can understand not wanting to provide graphics of the actual rails in the roadtype, as they might be out of gauge with a rail (road provides standard gauge overlay on narrow gauge rail or even on monorail)
14:15:27  <supermop_Home_> but it would be nice to at least have a variable "tile is a level crossing" so i could change the underlay/ markings etc
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14:29:54  <_dp_> hm.... unrestricted c&p may be a bit concerning...
14:34:11  <TrueBrain> grievers being grievers, I guess?
14:34:26  <TrueBrain> hmmm ... that moment a docker has CMake 3.13, and you want to use 3.15 :P
14:36:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i've never had a single use case for copy&paste
14:38:42  <_dp_> [misc] SignalSegment too complex. Set _tbdset is full (maximum 256)
14:38:46  <_dp_> what is this error? xD
14:40:41  <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, I don't have much use for it either
14:54:44  <_dp_> on a plus side excessive c&p lag client off the server relatively quickly
15:02:51  <TrueBrain> okay ... I think I have the Steam Runtime stuff done .. lets see if GitHub Actions agree with me :D
15:07:17  <TrueBrain> it did BOOOMMMM
15:07:18  <TrueBrain> :(
15:11:25  <TrueBrain> the download-artifact actions (made by GitHub) only supports libc 2.16 and 2.17 ... this docker image has 2.15 .. lol
15:15:19  <Samu> can a GS start an AI?
15:16:40  <orudge> TrueBrain: so, it looks like you can't staple a notarization ticket to a .zip file, so just using the regular .app out of the .dmg is fine. I will have a PR soon that creates a .zip alongside the .dmg, and the act of notarizing the .dmg should be sufficient as it's then registered in Apple's servers. Will test it out on my M1 and ensure the .zip works OK.
15:17:04  <TrueBrain> awesome :)
15:17:13  <TrueBrain> wtf is stapling ... lol
15:17:51  <TrueBrain> well, I know what stapling is, just not in this context :P
15:20:20  <TrueBrain> orudge: can't you staple the ticket to the
15:20:23  <TrueBrain> (before zipping)
15:20:39  <TrueBrain> from what I understand, not stapling the zip means it won't start without network
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15:47:43  <TrueBrain> orudge: if I understand this correctly, you can notarize both the dmg file as the app in there .. the reason you cannot staple zips, is because they only see it as a container, nothing else. So people indeed do: zip the app, notarize it, unpack zip, staple to app, zip app again
15:47:45  <TrueBrain> ... lol? :D
15:49:12  <supermop_Home_> hi andythenorth
15:53:45  <andythenorth> hi
15:53:47  <andythenorth> oops
15:53:49  * andythenorth working bye
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16:15:44  <TrueBrain> okay, so for Linux Steam Runtime support .. we have Scout, which runs libc2.15, which is not compatible with some GitHub Actions we depend on
16:15:53  <TrueBrain> and we have Soldier, which is based on Debian 10, but .. not released yet
16:16:00  <TrueBrain> happy days :P
16:16:02  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] GregTCLTK opened issue #137: [de_DE] Translator access request
16:20:36  <orudge> [15:20:21] <TrueBrain> orudge: can't you staple the ticket to the <-- apparently not. .dmg and .pkg only it seems.
16:20:42  <orudge> But Steam does ask if the app is notarized
16:20:50  <orudge> and if it's downloaded from Steam, you have Internet
16:21:09  <orudge> so I think we've done as much as we can with it
16:21:34  <TrueBrain> I wasn't thinking about Steam there, I was thinking about people downloading the .zip from our website :)
16:21:39  <orudge> Yes
16:21:43  <TrueBrain> so I guess we shouldn't be doing that ;)
16:22:14  <orudge> hmm, it says you should be able to staple to the app
16:22:16  <TrueBrain> gon suggests you can staple .apps btw, but I know very little about this stuff, and am only reading stackoverflow :P
16:22:17  <orudge> but when I tried that it failed
16:22:30  <orudge> that was the first thing I had tried
16:23:13  <TrueBrain> you tried the .app folder? or the .zip?
16:23:18  <orudge> The .app
16:23:22  <orudge> (and the .zip, later on)
16:23:32  <TrueBrain> from what I read from people, you have to notarize it via the zip, and staple the ticket yourself to the app
16:23:41  <TrueBrain> it is really weird, honestly :P
16:24:06  <TrueBrain> but to be clear, I am perfectly fine not doing it, and only using the .zip for Steam
16:24:28  <orudge> Yeah
16:25:28  <TrueBrain> we just have to upload the zip artifact as "internal-macos-universal"
16:25:32  <TrueBrain> and it won't be published :)
16:28:25  <orudge> I may have a fix for a notarized app inside the zip, let's try it out
16:29:57  <TrueBrain> too bad runs take for-ever :P
16:31:53  <orudge> E-mail from "bigbotnetwork"... "
16:31:53  <orudge> my name is Gregor Bigalke, I am the CEO of an international publishing company. We are interested in distributing your game OpenTTD on Steam. Are you interested in it?
16:31:59  <orudge> Yeah, perhaps not
16:32:03  <TrueBrain> I think for Linux support on Steam we simply are better off waiting for their next release of Steam Runtime .. this is ... ugh ...
16:32:12  <TrueBrain> orudge: lol!
16:32:59  <Eddi|zuHause> there's "Steam Linux Runtime - Soldier", have you checked that?
16:33:21  <TrueBrain> scroll back to like 17 minutes ago
16:34:25  <Eddi|zuHause> what does "not released" mean? it's an entry in my steam library. not sure if that is because i'm using the steam client beta
16:34:43  <milek7_> they're using it for running Proton
16:34:54  <milek7_> not sure if it is available for 3rd parties
16:35:04  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause:
16:36:31  <Eddi|zuHause> right, so i have it because of proton
16:36:43  <TrueBrain> even without you can download it manually
16:36:48  <TrueBrain> just .. you cannot make your game depend on it :P
16:37:07  <TrueBrain> information on how to publish games for Linux on Steam is .. "special", at best
16:37:11  <TrueBrain> lot of snippets in a lot of places
16:39:54  <Eddi|zuHause> right. so all the parts are in place, but there's no button to enable it
16:40:12  <TrueBrain> no clue how far it really is .. it is a bit of a mystery :P
16:41:42  <TrueBrain> you don't define anything when you upload a Linux depot about its properties, so I have no clue how they plan on making you pick what runtime you need, honestly :)
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16:42:09  <TrueBrain> they keep talking about that they are using containers to make things easier, but they give surprisingly little insights how that works for a developer :)
16:53:41  <TrueBrain> orudge: you quoted the folder, so * is not resolved :(
16:54:08  <TrueBrain> (I am NOT peeking in what your idea was, not at all :P Sorry .. too curious :D)
16:57:42  <orudge> TrueBrain: yes, I realised; without signing it on my local machine I can't test it locally (and for that I need to stick all the certificate stuff back on it)
16:58:07  <orudge> This time lucky, hopefully
17:00:16  <TrueBrain> fingers crossed :D
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17:24:44  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge opened pull request #8614: Feature: Create .zip for macOS build
17:33:13  <TrueBrain> W00p
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18:06:49  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8614: Feature: Create .zip for macOS build
18:16:27  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8614: Feature: Create .zip for macOS build
18:16:42  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
18:16:43  <DorpsGek>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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18:24:58  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge commented on pull request #8614: Feature: Create .zip for macOS build
18:25:45  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8614: Feature: Create .zip for macOS build
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18:46:31  <TrueBrain> hmm .. pulling the image from the Steam registry was very slow for me; I assumed it was me .. now I see it is slow for GitHub too ..
18:46:33  <TrueBrain> that is a bit of an issue :)
18:46:47  <TrueBrain> (it is 600MiB, and it pulls with 100 KB/s :P)
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18:52:50  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge updated pull request #8614: Feature: Create .zip for macOS build
18:53:45  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge commented on pull request #8614: Feature: Create .zip for macOS build
18:53:58  <TrueBrain> orudge: can I nitpick? I think you should flip the comment and pushd command :)
18:56:31  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8614: Feature: Create .zip for macOS build
19:03:25  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge updated pull request #8614: Feature: Create .zip for macOS build
19:04:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8614: Feature: Create .zip for macOS build
19:06:21  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] orudge opened pull request #189: Change: Add zip variant for macOS 10.9+ binaries
19:06:54  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain approved pull request #189: Change: Add zip variant for macOS 10.9+ binaries
19:15:40  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge merged pull request #8614: Feature: Create .zip for macOS build
19:15:57  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] orudge merged pull request #189: Change: Add zip variant for macOS 10.9+ binaries
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19:47:40  <supermop_Home_> is it important to put like electric insulator/transformer greeble on top of tram depots to identify them?
19:48:36  <Timberwolf> I'd love to do custom tram sheds, but not had the time to play with them.
19:49:32  <supermop_Home_> I've drawn a shitload of depots over the past 10+ years
19:49:47  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_Home_: no, i hate that. i've used a grf that replaces the tram shed forever
19:50:00  <supermop_Home_> but none of them with cartoony electrical stuff like the base set
19:50:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know who had that idea
19:54:12  <TrueBrain> orudge: don't forget to tag :)
19:54:32  <supermop_Home_> i just realized that 3+ years ago i wrote the switch for depots based on parameter / time for roadtypes but not tramtypes bc i was lazy i guess
19:55:15  <supermop_Home_> and so even though tramtypes have their own default depot sprites in my grf, they never use it as they just use the switch for roadtypes
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20:05:48  <supermop_Home_> actually the more i look at this the less i understand what was going on here
20:07:05  <supermop_Home_> the road depot sprites only provide the building itself, not the floor/ground
20:07:36  <supermop_Home_> but somehow the road groundsprite is used instead of the tram one
20:08:16  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] orudge created new tag: 1.4.15
20:10:41  <TrueBrain> orudge: I just created a "nightly" beta in OpenTTD .. can you check if macOS works?
20:11:43  <TrueBrain> (you might need to restart Steam before it becomes visible)
20:13:59  <supermop_Home_> wait where is the sprite aligner tool? not under the ?
20:16:17  <supermop_Home_> i have no idea where this sprite is coming from
20:17:51  <frosch123> it is in ?
20:17:58  <frosch123> but you need to enable newgrf dev tools
20:18:09  <supermop_Home_> ah
20:20:18  <orudge> TrueBrain: working on Intel, need to test M1
20:20:37  <TrueBrain> well, at least that means the zip is working :P It has the version "master" with the date of today, right?
20:26:33  <orudge> Seems to work on M1 too
20:26:34  <orudge> and yes
20:26:39  <orudge> all looks good :)
20:26:39  <TrueBrain> w00p
20:26:40  <TrueBrain> nice :D
20:27:02  <TrueBrain> I am running attempts to get Steam Linux to work, but it seems I have to build my own docker to not make this stupid
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20:33:52  <andythenorth> such days
20:34:23  <supermop_Home_> yo
20:35:07  <andythenorth> yo yo
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21:00:51  <andythenorth> is cat?
21:01:01  <andythenorth> also what LED ring light to buy?
21:02:20  <supermop_Home_> andytheinfluencer
21:02:21  <frosch123> are you building a professional setup for streaming?
21:02:42  <supermop_Home_> smash that like button
21:02:50  <frosch123> right lights are funny. the reflection in the eyes is super weird
21:04:12  <supermop_Home_> i feel like some kind of soft fill light would be best
21:04:32  <supermop_Home_> like if you can have a white wall and ceiling and bounce off that
21:04:55  <TrueBrain> I found LED neon silicagel yesterday ..
21:04:55  <supermop_Home_> or do you mean to go around a lens for product photography
21:04:59  <TrueBrain> too bad it takes 2 weeks to get here
21:05:21  <supermop_Home_> i need to do a lot of product shots for portfolio here
21:05:25  <andythenorth> TrueBrain pls share
21:05:33  <andythenorth> apparently also you can eat silica gel
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21:06:06  <TrueBrain>
21:06:15  <TrueBrain> is without a led-strip itself
21:06:22  <TrueBrain> but they look super sweet :)
21:07:12  <andythenorth> remarkable
21:07:18  <andythenorth> I probably wouldn't eat those though
21:10:12  <andythenorth> today I played a game called
21:10:17  <andythenorth> "try to understand AWS pricing"
21:10:30  <andythenorth> I did not win
21:10:40  <TrueBrain> nobody wins that :P
21:10:43  <TrueBrain> you just hope for the best!
21:11:04  <andythenorth> I decided it's an empirical question
21:11:12  <andythenorth> you only know the price after you pay
21:11:57  <TrueBrain> for a part, that is very true
21:11:57  <andythenorth> was trying to understand (1) if EC2 actually now offers hosts that don't just vanish 'pop' under your application (2) if they cost more or less than Rackspace public cloud
21:12:07  <TrueBrain> the minimum you can figure out :P
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21:13:40  <andythenorth> we use AWS spot quite a lot, and it's 'fine', with occasional weird behaviour and pricing swings
21:13:54  <TrueBrain> that is what spot instances are :)
21:13:55  <andythenorth> but not for hosting production, because spot can go away
21:14:08  <TrueBrain> well, you have 5 minutes to evict :P
21:14:35  <andythenorth> 'quick save the data'
21:15:30  <Samu> 7918 is in limbo :(
21:15:59  <andythenorth> you going to make me look that up for myself? :P
21:16:11  <TrueBrain> spend your free time wisely andythenorth  :)
21:16:25  <andythenorth> 'free time'?
21:16:40  <andythenorth> I am calculating year-on-year finances and making a product web page
21:16:54  <TrueBrain> I am battling Steam Linux :)
21:17:00  <andythenorth> le oof
21:17:09  <TrueBrain> yeah ... not as much fun as it sounds
21:17:27  <andythenorth> I suspect FIRS 4 won't ship on April 1st with next OpenTTD
21:17:29  <andythenorth> sad times
21:17:40  <TrueBrain> :(
21:17:49  <andythenorth> 'just use the beta' might do
21:18:13  <TrueBrain> I am going to give up on this ... Windows + macOS only for now
21:18:17  <andythenorth> oof
21:18:22  <TrueBrain> tomorrow we try to automatically upload new versions :D
21:18:24  <andythenorth> hmm FIRS is replaced by XIS now anyway
21:18:34  <andythenorth> at least in the places that the influencers gather in
21:18:40  <andythenorth> because XIS is bigger
21:18:43  <andythenorth> suits me fine :)
21:19:21  <Timberwolf> Only until the influencers figure out how to make two industry sets at once work.
21:19:52  <andythenorth> Moar Cargos
21:20:02  <Timberwolf> Maybe I *should* make a FIRS fork. With even more industries and cargos, but also 2x graphics.
21:20:16  <Timberwolf> That would be like the "buttered toast on the back of a cat" of Reddit/Discord OpenTTD.
21:21:59  <andythenorth> ha ha
21:22:51  <Samu> Timberwolf, how did you make your trains turn smoothly in curves, and not an instant 45 degrees?
21:23:08  <Timberwolf> Ask Eddi, he invented it :p
21:23:10  <Samu> also the same going up and down slopes
21:23:34  <Timberwolf> There are some curvature variables which give you the difference in direction between vehicles.
21:23:49  <Samu> does that feature is also available for road vehicles
21:24:10  <Timberwolf> If you make a vehicle out of three articulated parts, then you can detect when it is "entering" and "leaving" a curve.
21:25:19  <Timberwolf> You can also get the z offset between vehicles, so swap to a different sprite when things are going up/down hill. (You need to anyway, to prevent the vehicle splitting, so I thought I may as well stick in up/down sprites)
21:25:43  <Timberwolf> It'd work fine for RVs as far as I know, but they'd all be articulated (no terminus road stops)
21:28:42  <Samu> do you have or know of any rv newgrf with smooth turning?
21:28:57  <Samu> must test against my PR
21:29:34  <Timberwolf> George played with the hill sprites when he was trying to fix clipping in Long Vehicles, but I don't know of anything which actually got released.
21:32:00  <Samu> my suspicion: #8609 will break smooth turning
21:32:19  <Samu> but without a newgrf to test, I don't know for sure
21:33:52  <Timberwolf> The curse of delving into sprite or movement scheme code is you inevitably become a reluctant newgrf author.
21:35:16  <Timberwolf> Waking up in the middle of the night with a horrifying realisation of, "oh no... they're going to do that, aren't they? I'm going to have to test this tomorrow."
21:58:32  <andythenorth> I deliberately never looked
21:58:45  <andythenorth> not even at why trams seem to be offset wrong depending on drive side
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22:06:10  <supermop_Home_> ok new spool version
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22:43:09  <supermop_Home_> i guess level crossings are out of scope for roadtypes, so i guess my NRT pony wishes would be 1)custom/no foundations 2)custom stops 3)custom bridge sprites/types per roadtype
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