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00:01:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] orudge approved pull request #28: Add: Polish (pl_PL) and Finnish (fi_FI) translations https://git.io/JqUSE 00:02:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] orudge merged pull request #28: Add: Polish (pl_PL) and Finnish (fi_FI) translations https://git.io/JqJp8 00:08:41 *** nielsm has quit IRC 00:11:26 *** glx has quit IRC 00:24:13 *** Progman has quit IRC 00:26:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] scovit opened issue #8806: DPI too high makes UI unusable on Mac OS X catalina https://git.io/JqU9a 00:28:05 *** erle- has quit IRC 00:29:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8806: DPI too high makes UI unusable on Mac OS X catalina https://git.io/JqU9a 00:33:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] scovit commented on issue #8806: DPI too high makes UI unusable on Mac OS X catalina https://git.io/JqU9a 00:38:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] scovit opened issue #8807: Segmentation fault when searching for internet servers https://git.io/JqU9b 00:41:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] scovit opened issue #8808: Die with failed assertion on MacOSX with cocoa-opengl driver https://git.io/JqUHv 00:45:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8808: Die with failed assertion on MacOSX with cocoa-opengl driver https://git.io/JqUHv 00:50:41 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 00:54:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] scovit commented on issue #8808: Die with failed assertion on MacOSX with cocoa-opengl driver https://git.io/JqUHv 00:58:11 *** Compu has joined #openttd 01:01:53 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 01:24:00 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 01:26:07 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 01:28:43 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 01:54:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] jdeepankur commented on pull request #8535: Fix #8506: Towns shouldn't add junctions to NewGRF roads they cannot build https://git.io/JqU5l 02:04:04 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 02:27:26 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 02:30:26 *** Flygon__ has joined #openttd 02:34:12 *** Flygon has quit IRC 02:35:41 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 02:37:12 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 02:40:42 *** Flygon__ has quit IRC 03:04:49 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 03:12:54 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 03:13:17 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 03:16:54 *** Flygon__ has joined #openttd 03:19:42 *** Flygon has quit IRC 03:23:42 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 03:25:54 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 03:30:50 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 03:32:42 *** Flygon__ has quit IRC 03:34:10 *** Wuzzy has quit IRC 03:36:42 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 03:36:54 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 03:41:25 *** Flygon__ has joined #openttd 03:43:42 *** Flygon has quit IRC 03:48:12 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 03:49:26 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 03:56:12 *** Flygon__ has quit IRC 04:00:46 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 04:04:07 *** debdog has quit IRC 04:10:19 <Gustavo6046> What is the best way to merge 3 railway lines into 2 with signals? 04:10:34 <Gustavo6046> Just "X-cross" them and put path signals around the cross? 04:11:00 <Gustavo6046> Like here: 04:11:03 <Gustavo6046> https://i.imgur.com/wfko7mM.png 04:11:14 <Gustavo6046> But then, what if I ever have more than three trains? Wouldn't this be susceptible to lockups? 04:11:40 <Gustavo6046> What if I want a set of railway lines that can support a number of trains that isn't bound by lockups, things like this? 04:15:54 *** Flygon__ has joined #openttd 04:22:42 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 04:41:29 *** jeremy[m] has quit IRC 04:41:29 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 04:41:29 *** freu[m] has quit IRC 04:41:29 *** k-man has quit IRC 04:41:29 *** Extrems has quit IRC 04:41:33 *** Extrems has joined #openttd 04:41:51 *** k-man has joined #openttd 04:41:54 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 04:46:02 *** freu[m] has joined #openttd 04:47:28 *** jeremy[m] has joined #openttd 04:48:24 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 04:55:16 *** Flygon__ has quit IRC 05:01:54 *** Flygon__ has joined #openttd 05:08:42 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 05:35:39 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 05:47:24 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 05:49:50 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 05:54:12 *** Flygon__ has quit IRC 05:55:47 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 05:57:57 *** Smedles has quit IRC 05:59:21 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 06:12:54 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 06:19:48 *** Flygon has quit IRC 06:33:56 <supermop_Home> Gustavo6046 how do you mean? 06:35:06 <supermop_Home> one line with three tracks reduces to two tracks? or like 3 branches connect to two branches 06:38:14 <supermop_Home> a regular two track line with directional signals will support an arbitrarily large number of trains... basically as many as fit into the length of the line minus 1 06:44:03 <supermop_Home> a 3rd bi-directional track in the center will add a bit more capacity for surges of congestion, but has little sustained effect as it cannot quickly switch direction 06:45:16 <supermop_Home> and if you have a lot of trains heading north that need the extra capacity, eventually you will have a lot of trains returning south 06:47:36 <supermop_Home> Gustavo6046 something like this works pretty well. https://imgur.com/a/VB68SMc 06:50:13 <supermop_Home> the length of the center track and signal spacing on it is something you need to strike a balance with, between favoring many same direction trains following one another on it, or favoring changing direction 06:51:16 <supermop_Home> but if you have just 3 trains going between A and B, a simple 2 track line is plenty. one track north, one track south 06:52:24 *** Flygon__ has joined #openttd 06:53:18 <supermop_Home> keeping at least one track dedicated for each direction prevents track locking up, as Northbound trains can never block southbound trains 06:59:17 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 07:21:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8806: DPI too high makes UI unusable on Mac OS X catalina https://git.io/JqU9a 07:21:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #8806: DPI too high makes UI unusable on Mac OS X catalina https://git.io/JqU9a 07:22:57 *** rptr_ has joined #openttd 07:23:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8807: Segmentation fault when searching for internet servers https://git.io/JqU9b 07:23:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #8807: Segmentation fault when searching for internet servers https://git.io/JqU9b 07:44:24 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 08:04:52 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 08:15:32 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:16:26 <andythenorth> yo 08:21:04 *** Progman has joined #openttd 08:29:29 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 08:35:27 *** rptr_ has quit IRC 08:35:41 *** rptr_ has joined #openttd 08:36:16 <andythenorth> changelogs entries, what's the best case to use? 08:36:34 <andythenorth> I seem to switch between 'Convert' and 'Converted' or 'Fix' and 'Fixed' 08:36:45 <andythenorth> Apple only use 'Converts' and 'Fixes' etc 08:43:00 <Wolf01> I use "[FIX]"/"Fix:" and "Fixed stuff" 08:49:24 <dwfreed> the recommendation for git commit messages is to use present tense verbs 08:49:42 <dwfreed> "fix foo" rather than "fixed foo" 08:59:51 <andythenorth> yes 09:00:00 <andythenorth> I do that 09:00:14 <andythenorth> gets weird when written as a player-oriented changelog about complex changes 09:00:41 <andythenorth> partly because it sounds like an imperative instruction sometimes 09:09:21 <Wolf01> Looks like a roadmap instead of a changelog 09:12:33 <andythenorth> 'Adjust running costs' 09:12:37 <andythenorth> who? 09:12:41 <andythenorth> did I adjust them? 09:12:46 <andythenorth> or can the player adjust them? 09:12:48 <andythenorth> confusing 09:17:11 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if the player adjusts them, it should have been "allow adjusting running costs" 09:17:52 <andythenorth> that assumes that the reader knows the convention 09:18:20 <Eddi|zuHause> why? 09:20:37 <andythenorth> because read in isolation 'Adjust running costs' implies the player can adjust them 09:20:53 <andythenorth> 'Create beautiful presentations' 09:21:01 <andythenorth> 'Connect with all your friends on social media' 09:21:06 <andythenorth> 'Share cat videos' 09:21:58 <andythenorth> 'Replace sprites' 09:22:01 <andythenorth> 'Repaint trains' 09:22:07 <andythenorth> 'Make trains faster' 09:22:31 <andythenorth> I am only beating this horse because my changelogs are quite inconsistent 09:23:09 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a feature list, not a changelog 09:23:32 <andythenorth> "but what is a changelog"? 09:24:11 * andythenorth reads the changelog for Trees and Tents 09:24:43 <andythenorth> hmm, inconsistent also 09:25:38 <andythenorth> what is the audience for a changelog? 09:25:41 <andythenorth> serious question 09:26:27 <Eddi|zuHause> people who care 09:27:10 <Eddi|zuHause> people who actively seek out to read it. it's not a sales pitch you need to barf on everyone 09:27:31 <andythenorth> and yet a sales pitch is needed, or at least a gameplay guide 09:27:40 <andythenorth> so I think the changelog might get deleted as a concept 09:27:54 <andythenorth> it's utterly redundant in a world containing version control 09:28:00 <Eddi|zuHause> these are very different concepts 09:28:48 <Eddi|zuHause> no. it duplicates information that would also be found in a version control system. but filtered, cleaned up, shortened, more focused 09:29:05 <andythenorth> but for an audience of...? probably nobody? 09:29:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i disagree. 09:30:43 <Eddi|zuHause> the point is to make the information more accessible. for people who want to know, to not force them to wade through a whole version control system. for people who want to skim a list to find out if anything changed would really bother them. 09:32:46 <andythenorth> my proposition is that in a world of limited interest 09:32:51 <andythenorth> those people don't get what they want 09:33:36 <andythenorth> this yak-shaving is silly https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=53362 09:33:42 <andythenorth> write a changelog 09:33:46 <andythenorth> write a gameplay guide 09:33:49 <andythenorth> update the first post 09:33:54 <andythenorth> add a release post 09:33:59 <andythenorth> write text for bananas 09:34:08 <andythenorth> possibly update readme 09:34:09 <andythenorth> how silly 09:34:10 <peter1138> It's missing docks. 09:34:17 <andythenorth> DOCKS! 09:34:24 <andythenorth> I saw some on your livestream once 09:34:28 <andythenorth> they worked and everything 09:34:34 <peter1138> "worked" 09:35:00 <andythenorth> all the best demos 09:35:07 <andythenorth> don't click the button that causes asserts 09:37:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what your problem is. 09:37:42 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't "write" a changelog. you take the existing commit messages, and delete the ones that would be of no interest. 09:37:49 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly reorder them by importance 09:38:56 <andythenorth> that sounds like work 09:39:23 <andythenorth> it's a maintainer expectation that seems to have no value 09:42:48 <Eddi|zuHause> just that you don't see the value, doesn't mean it doesn't exist 09:44:55 <michi_cc> I think it mostly depends on what you want to achieve. If you don't care one bit whether you have 1 or 1000000 "customers", just upload if with a comment of whatever. If you do care about how many people you can reach, these things get value for engaging with people. 09:45:58 <andythenorth> in a world which is mostly reddit 'yolo' 09:46:36 <Eddi|zuHause> spoiler: reddit is not "the world" 09:46:37 <andythenorth> I guess there might be one person who needs a detailed changelog before choosing to never ever upgrade the grf again 09:46:51 <andythenorth> reddit is a pretty good representation of most of the world 09:47:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i disagree. 09:47:22 <andythenorth> no I caveat, most of the world under the age of about 40 or so 09:48:10 * peter1138 installs Visual Studio Build Tools for no particular purpose. 09:49:11 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: let's assume i'm a user 09:49:23 <Eddi|zuHause> and i want to update your grf 09:49:32 <Eddi|zuHause> then i need a quick overview of changes 09:49:39 <Eddi|zuHause> to see whether i need to adjust my playstyle 09:50:33 <andythenorth> yes 09:51:01 <andythenorth> peter1138 what's the gameplay like in those? Is it a good mechanic? Does it have in-game purchases? 09:51:06 <Eddi|zuHause> this changelog needs to be optimized for reading-time. 09:51:34 <peter1138> Good idea. Skyrim. 09:51:39 <Eddi|zuHause> the longer it takes to read, the less people read it, the less value it has 09:51:44 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, use a state machine. 09:53:01 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause arbitrary claim 09:53:09 <andythenorth> the shortest changelog is 09:53:13 <andythenorth> 2.0.0: changes 09:53:19 <andythenorth> factually accurate 09:56:39 <_dp_> is Pinocchio a changelog? 09:57:15 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that's what you get for ignoring competing optimization goals 09:59:49 <dihedral> hej hej 10:04:38 <peter1138> Er, x86, x86_amd64, amd64, or amd64_x86? what? 10:04:46 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 10:05:14 <Eddi|zuHause> also, you're missing x64 10:05:36 <peter1138> Nobody uses x64. 10:06:25 *** Sang has joined #openttd 10:06:59 <peter1138> Oh, amd64/x64 is equivalent here, apparently. 10:07:10 <peter1138> Not Intel's failed 64 bit. 10:07:12 <Sang> Hello, i want to ask about the message "city too close to other city", could the distance between the cities be changed? 10:07:27 <Eddi|zuHause> no, that'd be ia64 10:07:49 <Sang> Because i am building very detailed map of Korea 10:08:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Sang: i think that's hardcoded 10:09:02 <peter1138> Urgh. To install vcpkg, make a git clone of... wtf. 10:09:07 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: to me, saying "amd64" acknowleges that "ia64" still exists 10:09:37 <Sang> Can you help me solve it? 10:09:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Sang: other than make a bigger map? probably not 10:10:22 <Sang> I already have the biggest map 10:10:49 <Eddi|zuHause> the game mechanics get a bit wonky if towns are too close to each other 10:11:24 <Sang> The message is awful 10:11:48 <andythenorth> why am I playing Blitz on a Saturday morning? 10:11:59 <andythenorth> it's like one of the top 7 worst days to play Blitz 10:12:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, you can disable the check when placing towns in scenario editor, and people without that change will be able to load the scenario. but that won't solve any of the gameplay problems 10:12:52 <Sang> i know 10:13:09 <Sang> well thanks for help I will try anything to solve some things 10:13:15 *** Sang has quit IRC 10:30:20 <peter1138> Bah, can't get vscode/cmake/vcpkg to play ball. 10:30:35 <peter1138> And then it worked. Damn. 10:31:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i hate when it starts working without giving an indication what was wrong before 10:31:33 *** rptr_ has quit IRC 10:31:59 <peter1138> It was a magical restart. 10:32:09 <peter1138> Also it appears to be thrashing my CPU :D 10:32:35 <Eddi|zuHause> how metal. 10:32:41 <peter1138> Oh no, that's Origin which has broken for some reason. 10:32:53 <peter1138> Ok, does it run? 10:34:10 <peter1138> No language packs. Hmm.. 10:35:04 <peter1138> Seems to have put the exe in a subdirectory. How unuseful. 10:35:09 <peter1138> But hey, it runs. 10:39:40 <andythenorth> are you compiling your own version of Trees? 10:39:50 <peter1138> yers 10:40:24 <andythenorth> thought so 10:40:32 <michi_cc> If you're using the cmake VS project file generator on OTTD, you need to manually set the working dir in the debug options to the build dir. 10:44:30 <FLHerne> andythenorth: yay new CHIPS 10:45:15 <andythenorth> :) 10:50:36 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 10:51:28 <andythenorth> FLHerne I added more pictures to the thread also https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1242232#p1242232 10:53:42 <FLHerne> I like the new loaders, those will be good 10:54:03 <FLHerne> And mud platforms that actually match :-) 10:54:36 <FLHerne> Huh, somehow I never thought of the arrangement in pic 2 10:54:57 <andythenorth> me neither until I did 10:55:05 <andythenorth> wasn't intentional, just accident 10:55:22 <andythenorth> same with pic 4 10:55:23 <FLHerne> Those dock ones would look much better with INFRA foundations 10:55:58 <FLHerne> How much of a pain is it for tiles to have custom foundations? I know NewStations does it a bit 10:56:38 <andythenorth> I'm sure it can be done 10:56:47 <andythenorth> I am avoiding learning the station spec 10:57:06 <andythenorth> I could show you a link to the CHIPS tile template, but you'd have to sign a waiver in advance for trauma 10:57:28 <andythenorth> I just edit sprites, cargo-cult the existing nfo, and step away 10:57:34 <FLHerne> well...it might be interesting 10:59:14 <andythenorth> the cranes use this https://github.com/andythenorth/chips/blob/master/src/tiles/harbour_cranes.pnfo 10:59:39 <andythenorth> but the generic empty ground / track tiles with cargo use these https://github.com/andythenorth/chips/tree/master/src/templates 10:59:41 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 10:59:47 <andythenorth> I'm not quite sure what does what 11:00:15 <andythenorth> also there are GRM sprites in play, which I treat as an interesting guessing game (as to intended purpose or how to use them correctly) 11:00:36 <andythenorth> CHIPS is not aided by 'yexo wrote it to learn the newgrf station spec' 11:00:47 <andythenorth> :) 11:01:26 <peter1138> Alright, how to diagnose this OpenGL pausing glitch? 11:02:13 <peter1138> Also how to stop the graphs jumping around in scale. Or is that a symptom... 11:03:32 <peter1138> michi_cc, alright... how is that done? 11:03:45 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 11:04:49 <andythenorth> suppose I should fix all the FIRS 4 beta bugs 11:04:54 <andythenorth> and release it or something 11:06:17 <michi_cc> peter1138: In proper VS, you just right click on the 'openttd' project, select properties and change it in the debugging section. No clue if it is the same in VS Code. 11:07:00 <peter1138> <OutDir Condition="'$(Configuration)|$(Platform)'=='Debug|x64'">I:\src\OpenTTD\build\Debug\</OutDir> 11:07:04 <peter1138> Looks sus 11:07:35 <peter1138> Hmm, localdebuggerworkingdirectory defaults to bin too, instead of build. 11:08:36 <michi_cc> That's because the VS project generator is the only one that defaults to putting the EXE into a subdir. You might also need to copy the contents of bin/ into the build dir, if you run any AIs that need the compat files. 11:12:55 <peter1138> Changing either of them has no effect. Meh. 11:14:15 <peter1138> Ok, well I give up. 11:16:28 <michi_cc> glx knows a lot more about that stuff, except of course he's not here right now. 11:21:53 *** dihedral has quit IRC 11:22:04 *** dihedral has joined #openttd 11:30:10 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 11:57:26 <andythenorth> what's the number of combinations for the 829 grfs on Bananas? 11:57:36 <andythenorth> turns out my grfs break a lot of other grfs 11:57:48 <andythenorth> going to be a long long long list of incompatible grfs needed 11:58:17 <_dp_> why do uncompressed saves take priority over lzo? 12:00:08 <_dp_> I'd guess lzo is kind of deprecated so it tries to lower the amount of lzo saves in existence 12:00:18 <_dp_> but it's not like it can be removed completely anyway 12:02:25 <_dp_> hm, or it's just because uncompressed was added later and no one bothered with priorities xD 12:09:08 <FLHerne> andythenorth: How? 12:09:32 <FLHerne> Besides FIRS, anyway 12:10:42 <andythenorth> Termite seems to be catastrophic for other sets 12:10:52 <andythenorth> xUSSR and Japan Set I tested so far 12:10:58 <andythenorth> no vehicles in depots 12:11:28 <andythenorth> FIRS breaks vehicle sets that use cargo subtype refits, so I'm testing all the major train grfs for that 12:11:39 <andythenorth> but along the way I'm discovering I've broken other grfs 12:11:49 <andythenorth> kinda contemplating the OzTrans approach here to grfs 12:11:58 <_dp_> how to call a pair of SaveLoadFormat and compression level? 12:12:06 <_dp_> SaveLoadStuff is the best I could think of %) 12:13:34 <andythenorth> railtype grfs seem to trivially break train grfs 12:13:35 <andythenorth> but eh 12:13:39 <andythenorth> maybe that's fine 12:13:55 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 12:15:47 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 12:16:01 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 12:16:24 <FLHerne> Yeah, that dep is obvious 12:18:54 <michi_cc> _dp_: SaveLoadPreset maybe? 12:20:34 <_dp_> yeah, a good option I guess 12:20:45 <_dp_> SavePreset though as it only applies to saving 12:25:01 <andythenorth> So what's better? 12:25:09 <andythenorth> learn nfo stations? 12:25:15 <andythenorth> nml stations? 12:25:22 <andythenorth> do something else? 12:25:43 <andythenorth> m4nfo stations seems to be the prevailing solution 12:36:06 <peter1138> Freshly 'baked' petit pains 12:36:35 *** dekeract[m] has left #openttd 12:39:21 <andythenorth> salad 12:39:31 <andythenorth> maybe cheese 13:04:28 <_dp_> error: ‘LoadFilter’ does not name a type; did you mean ‘RoadBits’? 13:04:36 <_dp_> thanks gcc, very helpful :p 13:21:03 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 13:24:20 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 13:27:57 <andythenorth> maybe I make a grf that uses NRT? 13:28:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened issue #8809: Crash/assertion failure when removing airport when hangar window open https://git.io/JqTCW 13:29:18 <LordAro> aw man 13:30:20 <andythenorth> omelette, eggs :) 13:36:03 *** erle- has joined #openttd 14:04:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 opened issue #8810: "Aircraft ran out of fuel" messages point to tile 0 instead of where the aircraft is. https://git.io/JqTlw 14:20:15 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 14:20:15 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 14:25:52 <frosch123> widelands added libcurl for downloading add-ons 14:26:48 <TrueBrain> PR for OpenTTD when? 14:27:02 *** tokai has quit IRC 14:27:51 <frosch123> they also use github as add-on database :) 14:28:02 <frosch123> some ideas seem to be successful 14:28:39 <TrueBrain> :D 14:28:55 <frosch123> https://github.com/widelands/widelands-metaserver <- hmm, metaserver also provides chat. should we replace discord with widelands? 14:31:50 <frosch123> "sync_safe: Optional: A boolean indicating that this add-on will not desync in replays and network games. This should not be set by the add-on author." <- hmm 14:32:14 <TrueBrain> Lol 14:32:36 <frosch123> i wonder who will set it... community poll? how often did this add-on desync? 14:34:57 <frosch123> hmm, their add-on repo has a lot of "translator bot" commits 14:35:21 <frosch123> sounds like the andy idea: bananas adds translations to contents 14:35:31 <andythenorth> wfm 14:35:46 <TrueBrain> Honestly not a bad idea 14:35:56 <frosch123> would need grf container 3 :p 14:36:04 <frosch123> so that the texts are not part of the md5sum 14:36:17 <TrueBrain> Ideally translations are a new package next to the current 14:36:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] grossws commented on pull request #7851: [WIP] Change: add support for next/previous railtype global hotkeys https://git.io/JqT4v 14:36:28 <andythenorth> means I never have to pull untrusted commits 14:36:51 <andythenorth> (for grf) 14:36:52 <frosch123> TrueBrain: that sounds like compatbility hell 14:37:05 <TrueBrain> So updating translations doesn't require downloading the whole newgrf again 14:37:07 <frosch123> we do not even offer a strgen download, for just that reason 14:37:10 <supermop_Home> good morning 14:37:28 <TrueBrain> I was thinking about zbase 14:37:31 <andythenorth> even with newgrf eints, I didn't ship some translations for a year or more 14:37:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] grossws commented on pull request #7851: [WIP] Change: add support for next/previous railtype global hotkeys https://git.io/JqT4k 14:37:38 <andythenorth> just because I didn't know they were there 14:37:42 <TrueBrain> Offering a new download every day because someone translated a string 14:37:49 <TrueBrain> Would be .. evil :D 14:38:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] grossws commented on pull request #7851: [WIP] Change: add support for next/previous railtype global hotkeys https://git.io/JqT4I 14:38:52 <frosch123> i think we had that problem with yeti 14:39:22 <TrueBrain> So it is not only grfv3, but also a way to sideload translations :D 14:39:31 <supermop_Home> TrueBrain you'd need some kind of algorithm like Instagram that knows when the user last updated and offers them a new version only when enough has changed that you think it meets their threshold for wanting one 14:39:37 <TrueBrain> And know when to update 14:39:38 <supermop_Home> and im sure people will love that 14:39:54 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i guess it does not need grfv3 then 14:40:15 <TrueBrain> Can strings be sideloaded or anything? 14:40:15 <frosch123> grf would just contain baselang then, and the translations would use the basetexts as key 14:40:17 <supermop_Home> though it would be hilarious to start feeding people newgrfs based on ML of their behavior 14:40:24 <TrueBrain> Merged client-side? 14:40:41 <supermop_Home> access the microphone 14:40:48 <frosch123> newgrf have no stable id for texts, that would identify them accross different grf versions 14:40:59 <frosch123> so using the english text as key is the closest we have 14:41:03 <supermop_Home> "oh this guy was talking about trolley buses the other day, show him this NewGRF" 14:41:03 <andythenorth> UUID? 14:41:10 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] grossws commented on pull request #7851: [WIP] Change: add support for next/previous railtype global hotkeys https://git.io/JqT4O 14:41:39 <TrueBrain> We could link it to the md5sum, translations .. 14:42:03 <TrueBrain> Dunno .. sounds it is doable, but needs work :D 14:42:18 <TrueBrain> And a heavy modification to eints, I guess :p 14:42:28 <TrueBrain> And link BaNaNaS to eints somehow .. 14:42:55 <Timberwolf> Most of those algorithms it'd be something like, "oh you downloaded a trolleybus GRF, now you will only be shown trolleybuses until the end of time, trains and boats and industry GRFs do not exist for you". 14:43:11 <supermop_Home> andythenorth drawing a 6px puff of steam is hard 14:43:16 <andythenorth> it is 14:43:30 <supermop_Home> about as hard as a 7px old-timey flywheel 14:44:07 <supermop_Home> not sure if i need the big brass dome thing 14:44:24 <supermop_Home> without it this looks more like a compressor than a steam engine 14:45:45 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] grossws commented on pull request #7851: [WIP] Change: add support for next/previous railtype global hotkeys https://git.io/JqT4l 14:47:05 <frosch123> i do not have enough cores to compile widelands 14:47:24 <frosch123> unusual problem :) 14:47:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] grossws commented on pull request #7851: [WIP] Change: add support for next/previous railtype global hotkeys https://git.io/JqT40 14:49:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] grossws commented on pull request #7851: [WIP] Change: add support for next/previous railtype global hotkeys https://git.io/JqT4a 14:58:11 <supermop_Home> andythenorth https://imgur.com/a/X4de3BP 14:58:23 <andythenorth> labour of love 14:59:19 <supermop_Home> stubby steam engine better? 15:02:10 <andythenorth> dunno :) 15:02:14 <andythenorth> "very small pixels" 15:03:59 <supermop_Home> i'm torn as i think the flywheel really needs to be red, but so does the gas can 15:04:47 <supermop_Home> i'd prefer some kind of color coding of grey or black = steam, red = gasoline/diesel, blue = electric 15:07:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] witchcult opened issue #8811: Game crashes after alt-tabbing https://git.io/JqTBq 15:07:40 <supermop_Home> Timberwolf that would somewhat funny 15:08:18 <supermop_Home> i avoid looking at any 'discover' or suggested / reels stuff on instagram 15:09:12 <supermop_Home> but some early viewing i made has convinced it that i primarily want to see Yugoslavian brutalist architecture and Spanish language Simpsons memes 15:09:28 <supermop_Home> so that's all that is ever there in that tab 15:11:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8811: Game crashes after alt-tabbing https://git.io/JqTBq 15:11:41 <supermop_Home> i think i'd like to make a station grf next 15:16:25 <supermop_Home> andythenorth chips is 10 years old? 15:17:12 <_dp_> hm... is static_assert(x == 5 && x <= 8) too weird to use? 15:18:29 <nielsm> unless it's generated code yes that's just weird to write 15:18:33 <andythenorth> dunno :) 15:19:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8535: Fix #8506: Towns shouldn't add junctions to NewGRF roads they cannot build https://git.io/JqTBS 15:20:12 <_dp_> well, they're for completely different reasons... == 5 to make sure that it stays the same regardless of ifdefs 15:20:24 <_dp_> and <= 8 because of some implementation details down the line 15:24:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #8811: Game crashes after alt-tabbing https://git.io/JqTBq 15:53:11 <_dp_> how do I pass struct to std::thread? it keeps demanding I std::ref() it and it works but doesn't look right 15:53:17 <_dp_> I want to copy that struct, not ref it 15:54:25 <frosch123> usually you pass a lambda to std::thread 15:55:40 <_dp_> for lambda arguments I mean 15:55:54 <_dp_> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8805/files#diff-87c3e5407b6eca886e12e04dd4eeab4c813556d4939ed0d2cfb30c46e8e175c5R2585 15:56:20 <_dp_> though I guess it's StartNewThread that may be at fault here, not std::thread itself 15:59:38 *** Flygon__ has quit IRC 16:00:37 <nielsm> you only get a pointer sized variable to pass to the thread yeah 16:00:44 <frosch123> it forwards everything, so SaveFileToDisk defines the parameter type 16:00:49 <nielsm> if you want to pass something bigger you need to pass a pointer to it 16:01:07 <frosch123> nielsm: are you looking at ottd 0.6 source? 16:01:15 <nielsm> no 16:01:49 <nielsm> I'm just commenting on a conversation I haven't been following at all 16:02:09 <frosch123> StartNewThread is a variadic template that perfect-forwards all arugments to the functor 16:03:19 <frosch123> oh, wtf. why does it do it like that... 16:04:48 <frosch123> _dp_: it does a decay_copy 16:05:19 <frosch123> so your compressionconfig may lack some copy-constructors or similar 16:06:08 <frosch123> oh, it 16:06:12 <frosch123> 's a pod type :p 16:10:55 <LordAro> TrueBrain: right, so where are these TICC/TOCCs likely to need to go? 16:14:34 <TrueBrain> Getting dinner now, but basically to start in the videodriver around the game tick, draw tick and sleep :) 16:14:47 <TrueBrain> Can do more details later tonight ;) 16:14:49 <LordAro> :+1: 16:15:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #7851: [WIP] Change: add support for next/previous railtype global hotkeys https://git.io/Jtyqq 16:20:50 <LordAro> openttd: /home/lordaro/dev/OTTD/openttd/src/pathfinder/yapf/yapf_destrail.hpp:201: bool CYapfDestinationTileOrStationRailT<Types>::PfCalcEstimate(CYapfDestinationTileOrStationRailT<Types>::Node&) [with Types = CYapfRail_TypesT<CYapfRail1, CFollowTrackT<TRANSPORT_BEGIN, Train, true>, CNodeList_HashTableT<CYapfRailNodeT<CYapfNodeKeyTrackDir>, 8, 10>, CYapfDestinationTileOrStationRailT, CYapfFollowRailT>; 16:20:56 <LordAro> CYapfDestinationTileOrStationRailT<Types>::Node = CYapfRailNodeT<CYapfNodeKeyTrackDir>]: Assertion `n.m_estimate >= n.m_parent->m_estimate' failed. 16:20:59 <LordAro> that's... not the crash i was going for 16:22:04 <LordAro> = -2140231922 16:22:10 <LordAro> and it looks suspiciously like an overflow 16:24:44 <_dp_> frosch123, I didn't rly get what you were trying to say there but std::move looks like a correct solution 16:29:16 <TrueBrain> LordAro: the trick btw is to set the count low, like 10, and watch which increases when you game stutters .. it should be either of those 3 :p 16:29:39 <TrueBrain> If none, try TIC/TOC instead 16:32:01 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 16:33:03 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 16:34:23 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:36:02 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 16:37:48 <supermop_Home> i need to find a freight forwarder in germany 17:01:34 <Gustavo6046> Is there no NewGRF that adds FIRS-compatible cargo choppers/airplanes? 17:01:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Gustavo6046: av8? 17:02:42 <Gustavo6046> Oh, that looks liek it could be it! 17:03:20 <Gustavo6046> "Full range of airplanes and helicopters" sounsd very promising, and kind of like how I'd describe FISH or 2cc in their respective categories. 17:03:23 <Gustavo6046> Thanks! 17:04:01 <frosch123> there are very different versions of av8 17:04:08 <frosch123> i recommend to use av8, and avoid av9 17:04:41 <Gustavo6046> Okay 17:04:56 <Gustavo6046> I'll use av8 2.1, I think that was the version I saw? 17:05:14 <Gustavo6046> frosch123: any particular reason to avoid av9? Is it like an unfinished/beta version, like FIRS 4? 17:05:49 <frosch123> no, both are "finished" but they have very different "visions" about what an aircraft set should be 17:05:57 <frosch123> av8 has lots of different aircraft 17:06:35 <frosch123> av9 is an intentionally trimmed down version. not sure how many, about 10 aircraft 17:06:41 <Gustavo6046> ah, alright 17:06:44 <frosch123> so it has almost no variety 17:08:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #8805: Feature: Allow client and server to negotiate on compression to use for the savegame https://git.io/Jqf7C 17:09:25 <Gustavo6046> I see 17:12:41 <Gustavo6046> Thanks! 17:13:11 <Gustavo6046> Also, I think I finally figured a solution to that passenger/two-way full load disproportion dilemma. 17:13:44 <Gustavo6046> Let me explain. I'd try to set up passenger lines, and have vehicles 'wait for any full load' at both sides. 17:14:24 *** tokai has joined #openttd 17:14:24 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 17:14:57 <Gustavo6046> This was a problem, because they'd always wait too much in the side with more passenger influx, while there were few vehicles to pick up passengers from the other side, resulting in one side with too many waiting vehicles while the other had increasing amounts of people waiting (= hurt ratings). 17:15:19 <Gustavo6046> I solved this by making *two* sets of shared orders; one would wait at a side but not at the other, and the other set would wait at the *other* side. 17:15:56 <Gustavo6046> Is there a way to solve this problem with just a single set of shared orders while still waiting for a full load when possible? 17:16:23 <Gustavo6046> Preferably a simple solution - 'simple' here means not using that confusing timetable thingamajig thingy. 17:18:57 <Eddi|zuHause> you can just set the wait times at the stations to something longer than a full unload and load would take, then there is no clumping up due to different load times anymore 17:21:11 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 17:21:21 <Eddi|zuHause> there's unfortunately no way to set a load time as "don't wait longer than this for a full load" 17:25:25 <LordAro> TrueBrain: trouble is, i don't really know where those places are 17:25:34 <LordAro> i'm usre i can find them, given time, but... 17:27:35 <Gustavo6046> Ahh 17:27:44 <Gustavo6046> I see 17:37:19 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause conditional orders of course 17:37:26 <andythenorth> the intuitive and often-suggested solution 17:37:32 <Eddi|zuHause> sure. 17:37:34 <andythenorth> whereby a vehicle loops via another station 17:37:38 <andythenorth> completely sensible 17:37:39 <LordAro> TrueBrain: actually, i'm having no luck reproducing this at all 17:40:43 <Gustavo6046> andythenorth: hmm? 17:41:12 <Gustavo6046> like, take all cargo without waiting, then go to dummy station right next, and come back to load more if conditional jump succeeds? 17:45:14 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 17:47:47 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, pretty much 17:48:37 <Gustavo6046> Ah, I see. 17:49:01 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I would say those 2 problems are completely unrelated :D :D 17:49:07 <TrueBrain> but yeah if you cannot reproduce it, you cannot debug it 17:49:29 <TrueBrain> for future reference: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/video/video_driver.cpp#L24 <- this is the game-tick 17:49:36 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/video/video_driver.cpp#L44 <- this is the draw tick 17:49:45 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/video/video_driver.cpp#L75 <- this is the sleep 17:49:46 <LordAro> yeah, i found the things eventually 17:50:00 <TrueBrain> maybe peter1138 can add some TICC / TOCCs and see if he can pin down where the slowdowns happen 17:50:05 <LordAro> but yeah, no luck (reliably) reproducing it 17:50:16 <LordAro> very occasional jumps, but nothing consistent 17:50:20 <TrueBrain> I mainly need to know what is slowing down 17:50:31 <LordAro> (i tried debug & release builds) 17:50:46 <TrueBrain> if you look at the TICC/TOCC macro you see they are really simple macros; sometimes I use them to only print values that are above a limit I set 17:51:30 <Gustavo6046> I keep finding myself missing a vehicle set of some type. 17:51:37 <Gustavo6046> But I think now I've caught 'em all! 17:51:38 <TrueBrain> but in reality, we should add some PFEs to monitor the game/draw tick better 17:53:16 <LordAro> as long as it doesn't slow things down too much 17:58:45 <LordAro> i fixed the pathfinder crash 17:58:52 <LordAro> ...by converting a load of ints into int64s 18:00:40 *** glx has joined #openttd 18:00:41 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 18:15:07 <TrueBrain> is that really fixing it? :D 18:16:03 <TrueBrain> and adding PFEs: every tick it already does PFEs, just in a place that is not useful to measure these kind of problems .. so I want to either move up the current ones, or add a new parent, not sure what is best yet 18:16:20 <TrueBrain> basically, draw-tick is not measured, but UpdateWindows is, which is always called in the draw-tick 18:16:24 <TrueBrain> just a tiny bit more too :) 18:16:38 <LordAro> seems to... just not sure it's the correct solution 18:16:47 <LordAro> as best as i can tell, it's always triggered this assert 18:17:02 <LordAro> (savegame from #7670) 18:18:02 <TrueBrain> well, by adding 32bits, you make the chance of it happening smaller, I guess :P 18:18:17 <TrueBrain> you could also make it an OverflowSafe<int> I guess :P 18:18:26 <TrueBrain> I guess a lot, I see :D 18:18:37 <LordAro> I guess 18:18:39 <LordAro> :p 18:19:00 <TrueBrain> I really wonder why an estimation would be more than 2^31 18:19:08 <TrueBrain> sounds really weird :P 18:19:23 <TrueBrain> even on a 4kx4k 18:19:38 <LordAro> all the estimations i was printing out were of the same magnitude 18:19:44 <LordAro> just that this one pushed it over the limit 18:19:49 <LordAro> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 18:20:02 <TrueBrain> sounds like there a bug hiding below this 18:20:21 <LordAro> i was afraid you were going to say that :p 18:20:32 <TrueBrain> I know you don't like that answer, don't worry :) 18:20:45 <TrueBrain> but there are only 16M tiles in a maxed-out game 18:20:50 <TrueBrain> even at a penalty of 100 per tile 18:20:56 <TrueBrain> @calc pow(2,31) 18:20:56 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 2147483648 18:21:06 <TrueBrain> @calc pow(2,31)/100/16000000 18:21:06 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 1.34217728 18:21:12 <TrueBrain> well, it would get really close to that 18:21:26 <TrueBrain> "really" being relative here :D 18:21:41 <TrueBrain> so what the hell is the pathfinder doing? 18:21:53 <LordAro> is the thing it's doing that's pushing it over the limit 1735715127 + 419000300 18:22:24 <TrueBrain> those numbers are already insane, given we use ~100 for scoring per tile :P 18:22:32 <TrueBrain> but, I have not read at all how estimations are made 18:24:38 <TrueBrain> I love how the comments suggest something the code is NOT doing 18:25:06 <LordAro> but of course 18:25:54 <TrueBrain> that "d" value, how is that calculated? Why doesn't it have a comment explaining? :P 18:26:09 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc pow(2,31) <-- how have you lived in IT and not memorized this number? :p 18:26:09 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Error: invalid syntax (<unknown>, line 1) 18:26:45 <TrueBrain> x and y are multiplied by 2 18:26:59 <TrueBrain> and x by YAPF_TILE_CORNER_LENGTH, and y by YAPF_TILE_LENGTH / 2 18:27:05 <TrueBrain> yes, that makes absolutely sense to me (?!?!) 18:27:17 <LordAro> it works fine in release mode, of course 18:27:20 <Gustavo6046> Also, how do I prevent road congestion when I use many road vehicles? 18:27:24 <LordAro> well, i imagine the pathfinder's going a little nuts 18:27:46 <TrueBrain> LordAro: mostly I wonder if it explains some absurd train-tick times, honestly :) 18:27:59 <LordAro> oh wait, no 18:28:15 <LordAro> release builds that have asserts disabled :p 18:28:23 <TrueBrain> those will work just fine :P 18:28:33 <LordAro> what are the rules for that, these days? 18:28:44 <TrueBrain> non-beta non-RC only 18:28:56 <TrueBrain> for the extra SSPPPPEEEEDDDDDDD 18:29:11 <Gustavo6046> I mean... 18:29:14 <Gustavo6046> https://i.imgur.com/powj7JJ.png 18:29:20 <TrueBrain> never was part of that choice, still no clue if that is a good idea btw LordAro :P 18:29:40 <TrueBrain> Gustavo6046: disable breakdowns :D :D :D 18:30:05 <TrueBrain> so the cost is 1700M and the estimation is 420M 18:30:47 <TrueBrain> do I want to know what route the PF is trying to plot? 18:31:03 <TrueBrain> it is like it starts in a town in the top left, and goes allllll the way to the bottom right to go allllll the way back 18:31:14 <TrueBrain> I guess that is one way to make it go nuts :D 18:31:33 <Gustavo6046> supermop_Home: also sorry I forgot to respond that day 18:31:34 <LordAro> the game is full of AIs, but even so, seems unlikely 18:31:35 <Gustavo6046> Thanks for the tips! :) 18:31:45 <Gustavo6046> TrueBrain: hm? 18:31:48 <TrueBrain> but I hope the PF says after a while: I had enough of this, I will just go close to the destination and see what happens 18:32:02 <Gustavo6046> I thought breakdowns were an important part of the balance 18:32:06 <Gustavo6046> like, the balance of the gameplay 18:32:06 <LordAro> there are various protections in place for that, but none of them seem to be getting triggered 18:32:17 <LordAro> Gustavo6046: almost every player disables them immediately 18:32:19 <TrueBrain> Gustavo6046: you are asking for a solution, I am presenting one :) Without any further context, of course 18:32:37 <Gustavo6046> But more importantly, they often lock the roads when they enter the stops/stations to load and unload. 18:32:43 <Gustavo6046> Even when there are free stations 18:32:57 <Gustavo6046> Oh 18:32:59 <Gustavo6046> They don't seem to do it now 18:33:04 <Gustavo6046> Odd. 18:35:08 <TrueBrain> okay, what the "d" value basically is: shortest distance from current position to destination 18:35:21 <TrueBrain> with a penalty of 100, give or take 18:35:32 <TrueBrain> means there is a train that wants to go 4M tiles away from where it is 18:35:36 <TrueBrain> if I read this right :P 18:35:42 <TrueBrain> well, it could be 144 18:35:53 <TrueBrain> @calc 419000300 / 144 18:35:53 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 2909724.3055555555 18:35:58 <TrueBrain> 3M tiles away 18:36:00 <TrueBrain> wth :P 18:36:06 <LordAro> trAIns is on the map 18:36:16 <TrueBrain> that is a long long track :D 18:36:28 <LordAro> it's built some fairly lengthy routes, judging from the smallmap 18:36:33 <LordAro> but probably not that long 18:36:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #7670: Road vehicle pathing cache does not always pick up changes in road network https://git.io/fjyVR 18:37:19 <LordAro> i think he's watching us 18:37:22 <TrueBrain> JGR is spoiling the fun again :P 18:37:24 <TrueBrain> I am sure he is ;) 18:37:59 <TrueBrain> so yeah, I keep forgetting people can change the penalties .. this should really have been a developers-only setting 18:38:05 <TrueBrain> to tune in the first year of the release of YAPF :P 18:38:09 <TrueBrain> and come with very big !!!!!!!!!!!!! 18:38:27 <Gustavo6046> Is there a real benefit to lining two roads (in high-congestion road vehicle lines), or is it not a substantial difference? 18:38:35 <LordAro> who's the guy who keeps trying to convince everyone that changing those settings is a good idea? 18:38:39 <LordAro> snail? 18:39:04 <TrueBrain> anyway, the penalties for "d" are fixed 18:39:12 <TrueBrain> so this is still an insanely long track, I would have to guess 18:39:36 <LordAro> https://i.imgur.com/vTlJWAt.png here's the smallmap 18:39:42 <LordAro> yellow is trains 18:39:54 <TrueBrain> dammmnnnn 18:40:18 <TrueBrain> anyway, I am just reading code and making guesses .. I could also open the savegame and make sure what I think is true :P 18:41:13 <TrueBrain> waaayyyy to lazy for that :) 18:41:33 <TrueBrain> just keep being surprised why YAPF doesn't have some basic comments in the F / G / H value parts 18:41:37 <TrueBrain> and why it is not called F / G / H 18:41:40 <TrueBrain> while it clearly is :P 18:44:21 <TrueBrain> anyway, for 1.12, UI redesign + removing of settings people shouldn't touch? 18:44:30 <TrueBrain> both will cause drama on forums anyway, so we better can get it over with :P 18:45:00 <TrueBrain> "you remove my ability to break the game by setting stupid PF settings!!!!!!!" 18:45:17 <TrueBrain> You don't allow me to play this game how I want it: broken and without any purpose! 18:47:24 <andythenorth> just do a patchpack 18:48:16 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: https://xkcd.com/1172/ ? 18:48:51 * andythenorth is somewhat demotivated to make grf currently 18:48:56 <andythenorth> dunno why 18:49:24 <andythenorth> it's the tedious yak-shaving to finish FIRS v4 I think 18:50:25 <LordAro> JGR's patch doesn't fix the crash either 18:50:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep updated pull request #8480: Multitile depots https://git.io/JL5Hh 18:50:33 <LordAro> does warn though :) 18:51:25 <andythenorth> particularly trying to find all the train grfs that FIRS 4 breaks 18:51:28 <andythenorth> is really boring 18:57:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8706: Feature: rail station class name filtering https://git.io/JqToP 18:57:09 <frosch123> just compare that to skipping cargo slot 31 :p 18:57:37 <frosch123> andy picks really weird fights 18:57:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8733: Feature: Build train locomotive filter https://git.io/JqToy 18:58:28 <Gustavo6046> Or how about three wide: https://i.imgur.com/HTeqtEj.jpg 19:00:42 *** J0anJosep has joined #openttd 19:02:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JqTod 19:02:06 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 19:02:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8688: Feature: Hide block signal GUI by default https://git.io/JqToF 19:05:54 <andythenorth> frosch123 can't rely on them using cargo slot 31 19:06:11 <andythenorth> the issue seems to be relying on GOOD for livery 19:06:19 <andythenorth> but FIRS doesn't always define GOOD 19:06:58 <frosch123> ok, fine. GOOD makes no sense 19:07:14 <andythenorth> yeah, I have spent a good part of the day trying to test the major train sets 19:07:15 <frosch123> they could just as well use MAIL 19:07:32 <andythenorth> I ran into extra lolz issues that Iron Horse and Termite break some of the train sets 19:08:07 <peter1138> What's for dinner? 19:08:21 <LordAro> burgers 19:14:38 <peter1138> Ok, got one out the frezer to defrost. 19:15:11 <peter1138> Seems to have been in there a while... 19:15:21 <TrueBrain> peter1138: if you have the time, did you pick up on the places to start debugging the stalls you are getting earlier? :D 19:16:10 <peter1138> No, I gave up trying to debug as it wants to build/run from build/Debug/ instead of build/, and so can't find any data. 19:16:50 <TrueBrain> yeah, in the build folder, run Debug/openttd.exe, and you are fine 19:16:52 <TrueBrain> but it needs that :D 19:17:38 <peter1138> LocalDebuggerWorkingDirectory gets set to bin instead of build. 19:17:46 <peter1138> Dunno why or how to fix it. 19:18:03 <TrueBrain> it is why I use MSYS to start OpenTTD on Windows 19:18:12 <TrueBrain> it is more in the way I can digest :D 19:22:50 <peter1138> Dunno what sets it to bin, but "bin" is a pretty vague thing to search for. 19:23:33 <peter1138> Hmm, or is the cmake build supposed to be done in bin/? 19:23:39 <TrueBrain> no 19:23:45 <peter1138> message(FATAL_ERROR "In-source builds not allowed. Please run \"cmake ..\" from the bin directory") 19:23:48 <peter1138> Hm 19:23:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #8805: Feature: Allow client and server to negotiate on compression to use for the savegame https://git.io/Jqf7C 19:23:56 <TrueBrain> that is old :D 19:24:32 <peter1138> set_target_properties(openttd PROPERTIES VS_DEBUGGER_WORKING_DIRECTORY "${CMAKE_SOURCE_DIR}/bin") 19:24:35 <peter1138> Ok 19:26:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8805: Feature: Allow client and server to negotiate on compression to use for the savegame https://git.io/JqTKx 19:27:17 <peter1138> Balls, still doesn't work :/ 19:29:23 <peter1138> set_target_properties(openttd PROPERTIES VS_DEBUGGER_WORKING_DIRECTORY "${CMAKE_BINARY_DIR}/") 19:29:27 <peter1138> set_target_properties(openttd PROPERTIES VS_DEBUGGER_WORKING_DIRECTORY "${CMAKE_BINARY_DIR}/") 19:29:30 <peter1138> Ooops 19:30:04 <peter1138> Seems like it might be more correct, but I guess my CMake integration is not doing anything with that anyway. 19:30:27 <TrueBrain> you should ask glx :D 19:31:19 <peter1138> I'm open to other ways to get this going. I just did VS Code + CMake + VS2019 Build Tools 19:31:24 <peter1138> (& vcpkg) 19:32:22 <peter1138> Hmm, there's no traditional vs code run/debug targets, just whatever this Cmake extension does. 19:32:57 <peter1138> Yeah, it starts it from Debug. Hmm. 19:37:55 <peter1138> "cmake.debugConfig": { 19:37:55 <peter1138> "cwd": "${workspaceFolder}/build" 19:37:56 <peter1138> } 19:38:00 <peter1138> Magic. 19:39:07 <peter1138> Of course, because it's a debug build, it's kinda slower anyway. 19:39:50 <peter1138> Erm, now it's running, I have zero idea where to start. 19:39:59 <peter1138> I mean, it gliches,but... 19:40:11 <TrueBrain> does the stuttering still happen? See earlier, I pointed out 3 places to TICC/TOCC 19:40:21 <peter1138> Hm 19:44:30 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 19:44:49 *** J0anJosep has quit IRC 19:45:35 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 19:48:29 <peter1138> Got lots of numbers but zero no idea how to interpret it. 19:48:44 <TrueBrain> you want to know which one spikes .. game-tick or draw-tick 19:48:52 <TrueBrain> or that sleep has a value of .. 19:48:55 <TrueBrain> @calc 1000 / 60 19:48:56 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 16.666666666666668 19:48:58 <TrueBrain> higher than 16 19:49:18 <TrueBrain> so a count of 10-ish for TOCC, give them a good name, wait for a stutter, and see which one is all of asudden high 19:49:22 <peter1138> Hmm. gametick 32000, 32000, 3200, 177000, 32000, 30000 19:50:01 <peter1138> 3200 was a typo :/ 19:50:44 <TrueBrain> so it is game-tick 19:50:50 <TrueBrain> that is rather interesting .. 19:50:57 <peter1138> Yeah 19:51:03 <TrueBrain> I did not expect that, honestly 19:51:27 <TrueBrain> well, you can go in GameLoop, and TICC/TOCC functions there 19:51:30 <TrueBrain> see if you can trace the function 19:51:34 <TrueBrain> or maybe make a flamegraph 19:51:37 <TrueBrain> see if that shows what is going on 19:55:50 <peter1138> Goto Definition. 19:56:03 <peter1138> How did I ever develop with just vim? 19:56:35 <michi_cc> The other function to time would be UnlockVideoBuffer() (i.e. video_driver.cpp:31, because that is where the OpenGL driver might do work). 19:57:09 *** _2TallTyler has joined #openttd 19:57:31 <TrueBrain> peter1138: a true vim believer will tell you vim can do that too .. but don't believe them 19:57:52 <peter1138> Yes, I never got as far as ever making ctags and all that gubbins work. 19:58:02 <peter1138> And then it was obscure keypresses. 19:58:47 <peter1138> Hmm, see, if it's the gameloop, them the performance ui stuff should pick it up... 19:59:28 <TrueBrain> not everything is measured, sadly enough 19:59:33 <TrueBrain> there are some odd functions that are outside it 20:03:49 <peter1138> I should remove the performance measurer and see if it's that ;-) 20:03:56 <TrueBrain> lol 20:04:55 * LordAro uses a large amount of greps 20:05:25 <TrueBrain> so do I, but for different things I am sure :D 20:05:39 <TrueBrain> I should make "grep -n" default .. 20:05:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler updated pull request #8688: Feature: Hide block signal GUI by default https://git.io/JtDJs 20:12:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] Wuzzy2 opened pull request #29: Add 6 translations, fix Finnish header https://git.io/JqTPh 20:12:41 *** Wuzzy has joined #openttd 20:12:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] Wuzzy2 commented on issue #15: Release 1.0.0 https://git.io/JtrnF 20:18:40 <Wuzzy> Translations for OpenSFX are now ready: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenSFX/pull/29 20:19:57 <Wuzzy> And after this PR is done, I think OpenSFX is release-ready (don't forget to manually update the date in changelog.txt first ;-) ) 20:20:26 <Wuzzy> oh wow, i can't wait to see a new OpenSFX release!! 😀 20:21:00 <peter1138> Barking up the wrong tree, don't think it's the gameloop. 20:21:44 <peter1138> this->UnlockVideoBuffer(); 20:21:46 <Wuzzy> Btw, if anyone wants to test (and listen to) the new -dev version of OpenSFX: https://www.openttd.org/downloads/opensfx-nightlies/latest.html 20:22:02 <peter1138> ^ normally ~ 300-800us 20:22:09 <TrueBrain> peter1138: guess there is a reason michi_cc asked :D 20:22:14 <peter1138> sometimes gets 165000us 20:22:15 <Wuzzy> ↑ this includes a couple of new sounds, now 100% libre (no more CC Sampling Plus nonsense, woohoo!) 20:22:30 <peter1138> Didn't see that. 20:22:31 <TrueBrain> not sure how to debug that issue further .. michi_cc might have ideas 20:23:48 <peter1138> Is your threading change still a PR? 20:24:03 <TrueBrain> yes 20:24:09 <TrueBrain> and there is no threading with OpenGL 20:24:11 <TrueBrain> currently 20:24:17 <TrueBrain> (there is with my PR) 20:25:47 <TrueBrain> but it is more interesting to understand why OpenGL stutters for a bit, honestly :) 20:28:02 <michi_cc> peter1138: Which graphics card are you running on? 20:28:10 <peter1138> RTX 2080 Ti 20:29:25 <michi_cc> Okay, two tests: 1) in src/video/opengl.cpp, uncomment the define at line 15 (NO_GL_BUFFER_SYNC); 2) Before line 592, add "this->persistent_mapping_supported = false;" 20:31:23 *** tokai has quit IRC 20:35:27 <peter1138> If 1 is done and 2 is not done, the lag seems to improve. 20:35:37 <peter1138> if 2 is done, regardless of 1, the lag seems to stay. 20:37:42 <michi_cc> Okay, then I have no real idea either. 1) simply causes the opengl backend to not wait for the previous frame to be done, which will lead to visible glitches. So this means the driver (or the GPU) occasionally spend time doing something. 20:38:25 <michi_cc> Going further done would need stuff like Nvidia Nsight Graphics and other vendor tools. 20:42:34 <peter1138> I'm going to try pr 8741 20:45:06 <peter1138> As predicted, nothing changes. 20:47:09 <TrueBrain> seems your GPU needs to warm up or something 20:47:45 <LordAro> 8741 should make the pauses less obvious though 20:48:41 <TrueBrain> that is true; unlocking happens outside the game-state-lock 20:49:00 <TrueBrain> so the game can just do another tick 20:49:02 <TrueBrain> but, only 1 20:49:08 <TrueBrain> so the stutter is ~15ms less 20:49:17 <TrueBrain> well, no, the game can continue 20:49:22 <TrueBrain> the next drawing will make it block 20:50:17 <TrueBrain> we also need someone with AMD to track down the slowness .. 20:50:47 <TrueBrain> if I had a job, I would buy one :P 20:51:21 <peter1138> That's a thing, after a while it does actually stop glitching, but not in a reproducible manner... 20:52:25 <milek7> what with AMD? on windows or linux? 20:52:56 *** _2TallTyler has quit IRC 20:53:31 <peter1138> Intel CPU, Nvidia GPU, Windows. 20:53:40 <frosch123> TrueBrain: random fact. when you pause widelands for a while, unpausing will immediately trigger a autosave 20:53:50 <TrueBrain> frosch123: lol .. 20:53:54 <TrueBrain> ALMOST right, I would say ;) 20:56:02 <TrueBrain> better than us, at least :) 20:57:29 *** Venemo has joined #openttd 20:59:51 <Venemo> hey guys. I've set up port forwarding for port 3979 between my VPS and my PC. I have verified that I can connect to this port using telnet, but openttd just says "server offline" 21:00:10 <LordAro> @ports 21:00:10 <DorpsGek> LordAro: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound) 21:00:59 <Venemo> yes, I use 3979 21:01:05 <LordAro> both TCP & UDP ? 21:01:41 <_dp_> udp is a tough nut to forward 21:01:48 <_dp_> from vps 21:02:14 <Venemo> errr... I used this command: 'ssh -R 0.0.0.0:3979:localhost:3979 user@vps -N' 21:02:30 <_dp_> that's only tcp 21:02:40 <Venemo> I see 21:02:49 <_dp_> I tried to forward udp once but I think I gave up 21:02:50 <LordAro> are you sure you need to port forward? 21:03:00 <michi_cc> Didn't somebody post a patch/PR for proper scaling of window padding and PIP here, or am I imagining that? 21:03:03 <LordAro> i would be very surprised if VPS is blocking ports 21:05:29 <milek7> https://i.imgur.com/FwEXkQI.png 21:05:57 <Venemo> I'd like to use port forwarding becasue the PC sits behind multiple routers 21:06:34 <LordAro> that's usually only an issue when the server is behind multiple (home) routers 21:06:43 <LordAro> have you tried it? 21:06:47 <Venemo> that's the case, yes 21:06:52 <milek7> Venemo: why don't you run server on vps itself? 21:06:56 <Venemo> no 21:07:01 <Venemo> the server is on my PC 21:07:19 <LordAro> why 21:08:02 <Venemo> seemed easier this way :) 21:08:50 <LordAro> i think you have found that it's probably not the case 21:09:07 <LordAro> unless your VPS is seriously low powered 21:09:07 <Venemo> right 21:10:30 <Venemo> well, the VPS runs centos 6 so I didn't want to get into the trouble of building the game for this old os 21:11:05 <LordAro> luckily for you, that's well supported by our generic-linux binaries 21:11:11 <LordAro> but you should probably think about upgrading anyway 21:11:17 <Venemo> yeah, I should 21:13:11 <Venemo> where is the generic binary? I only found ubuntu and debian ones 21:13:31 <LordAro> oh, only for 1.11 betas 21:13:59 <LordAro> but i wouldn't think you'd have issues building 1.10.3 for COS6 anyway 21:14:57 <Venemo> I guess it's worth a try 21:16:16 <milek7> eeh, I don't think so 21:16:31 <milek7> centos6 have gcc4? :P 21:16:45 <Venemo> it has gcc (GCC) 4.8.5 20150623 (Red Hat 4.8.5-44) 21:16:52 <LordAro> yeah, but that has enough C++11 support afaik 21:25:09 <Gustavo6046> Trains drive on the right :) 21:25:37 <Gustavo6046> https://i.imgur.com/U10Rs4J.jpg 21:53:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc opened pull request #8812: Codechange: Allow driver factories to decide at runtime if the driver is usable. https://git.io/JqTSV 21:55:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] spnda opened pull request #8813: Add display refresh rate game option https://git.io/JqTS1 21:56:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8812: Add: Option to (dis-)allow accelerated video drivers. https://git.io/JqTSD 21:56:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] scovit commented on issue #8786: In MacOS, the interface is incredibly small https://git.io/JtpFV 21:57:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] spnda updated pull request #8813: Add display refresh rate game option https://git.io/JqTS1 22:04:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8812: Add: Option to (dis-)allow accelerated video drivers. https://git.io/JqT9q 22:06:40 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:12:48 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:15:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8812: Add: Option to (dis-)allow accelerated video drivers. https://git.io/JqT97 22:15:57 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 22:17:10 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 22:21:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8812: Add: Option to (dis-)allow accelerated video drivers. https://git.io/JqTHU 22:25:31 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:25:31 *** dihedral has quit IRC 22:25:31 *** freu[m] has quit IRC 22:25:31 *** D-HUND has quit IRC 22:25:39 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 22:25:45 *** debdog has joined #openttd 22:26:52 *** spnda has joined #openttd 22:27:34 *** dihedral has joined #openttd 22:29:18 *** freu[m] has joined #openttd 22:31:10 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8813: Add display refresh rate game option https://git.io/JqTHD 22:31:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8813: Add display refresh rate game option https://git.io/JqTH7 22:32:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] spnda commented on pull request #8812: Add: Option to (dis-)allow accelerated video drivers. https://git.io/JqTHF 22:40:17 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:40:25 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: I guess mostly I hope this triggers someone to make a Vulkan driver or something :P 22:40:45 <spnda> hey that was my idea! 22:41:12 <TrueBrain> :P 22:41:17 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:41:22 <spnda> I've even got my branch already lol https://github.com/spnda/OpenTTD/tree/vulkan 22:41:46 <TrueBrain> case and point, thank you : 22:41:47 <TrueBrain> D 22:41:55 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: Would you make driver names translatable? 22:42:50 <TrueBrain> Allegro .. SDL (X11) .. SDL (OpenGL) .. Win32 (GDI) .. Win32 (OpenGL) .. Cocoa .. no, I do not think they are translatable pieces in there? 22:42:52 <TrueBrain> why do you ask? 22:43:53 <TrueBrain> SDL can be a bit tricky ... X11 is only known after the backend is initialized 22:43:57 <TrueBrain> so it would be just SDL maybe 22:43:58 <TrueBrain> dunno :P 22:45:37 <TrueBrain> if (and that is still an if for me) we do this, we should also have a dropdown for music and sound driver 22:45:55 <TrueBrain> doesn't all have to be done at once or for 1.11 even 22:45:57 <spnda> thing is, one could technically implement SDL for windows as an option. But that would be besides the point, that would just be the same effectively 22:46:19 <LordAro> is there ever more than one option (beyond GL/non-GL) on any normal system? 22:46:23 <TrueBrain> I debug a lot with SDL for Windows, yes. But we do not officially support that :D 22:46:32 <TrueBrain> LordAro: currently, no 22:46:43 <TrueBrain> that is why I mentioned Vulkan, as possible future :) 22:46:54 <spnda> Anything made by intel, amd or nvidia after 2015/16 would support Vulkan 22:47:17 <TrueBrain> and we have Metal on macOS 22:47:19 <spnda> but honestly, the benefits are tiny for a game like this and idk if I want to spend the few thousand lines implementing a vulkan driver for this game 22:47:28 <spnda> i'd rather spend the time extending my vulkan raytracer lol 22:47:35 <spnda> which is what vulkan is really made for 22:47:35 <TrueBrain> ghehe 22:48:14 <TrueBrain> but again, I am not saying it is a good idea to make a dropdown for the video driver; just mentioning that I had that in my head, for what-ever that is worth :D 22:48:50 <spnda> Well I had the idea today that the Game Options window could be a tabbed window, fusing the options and game options together into different tabs. 22:49:07 <spnda> That would also allow a tab for video settings, possibly configuring any driver, resolution or blitters 22:49:15 <TrueBrain> for my UI redesign drafts those windows look completely different :D 22:49:17 <spnda> And maybe even a audio tab with audio volume or something 22:49:26 <TrueBrain> and yes, exactly that 22:49:30 <TrueBrain> be more like other games, basically 22:49:31 <spnda> TrueBrain: is that inside a pr or branch of yours? 22:49:38 <TrueBrain> no, nothing that fancy yet 22:50:21 <TrueBrain> https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1663690/109415102-02547e80-79b7-11eb-8f2c-3a3a324d07a6.png <- currently they are just mockups 22:50:35 <TrueBrain> but I haven't done Options yet in that format; hope to do that next week 22:51:05 <spnda> but thats just something from gimp? or is that actually coded? 22:51:14 <TrueBrain> semi-coded 22:51:21 <TrueBrain> I made a NWidget -> HTML converter 22:51:36 <TrueBrain> so it is HTML of which I took an image :) 22:51:53 <TrueBrain> but written in a language I could in theory copy/paste in OpenTTD C++ code 22:52:08 <spnda> oh what? that's a bit over the top is it not lol 22:52:16 <TrueBrain> I needed something to do quick mockups with 22:52:24 <TrueBrain> while still being limited by NWidget system 22:52:32 <TrueBrain> GIMP slowed me down a lot 22:52:41 <TrueBrain> C++ was too darn slow too 22:52:54 <TrueBrain> quick iterations in mockups is rather important :) 22:53:23 <TrueBrain> https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1663690/109419810-93375400-79cf-11eb-97a2-fbcd6151a631.png <- this is like iteration #10 :P 22:53:37 <TrueBrain> colours are wrong, editbox is not implemented, etc .. its a mockup :P 22:53:48 <spnda> it's very noticable, yeah 22:54:00 <TrueBrain> https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1663690/109415702-77758300-79ba-11eb-8ebf-d86ba9a4fbd1.png <- for tabs I was thinking something like this 22:56:22 <spnda> there is no NWidget for tabs just now is there? 22:56:29 <TrueBrain> not that I know 22:56:46 <TrueBrain> hence me experimenting a bit with it 22:56:52 <spnda> Also, yes, that mockup looks good, just need to actually indicate that they're tabs and not just some buttons (which is what it looks like) 22:57:06 <TrueBrain> yup 22:57:16 <TrueBrain> which is rather difficult with the limited colours and styles currently available :) 22:58:47 <TrueBrain> but I first want to mock the content, what should be in windows etc 22:58:59 <TrueBrain> and from there zoom out to how it should look, and after that what colours 22:59:39 <TrueBrain> maybe also, and this will be a shocker, have a window to configure hotkeys 22:59:47 <TrueBrain> as it really surprised me that is only possible by editing a file :P 23:02:21 <spnda> TrueBrain: Btw, how would one access the currently used video driver from global scope? 23:02:41 <TrueBrain> there is a function for that, something something VideoDriver Instance 23:02:46 <TrueBrain> can't remember the exact name 23:03:10 <spnda> for #8813, I want to check all the monitor's refresh rates and add all of them to the dropdown list (if available ofc) 23:03:58 <TrueBrain> VideoDriver::GetInstance() 23:04:08 <TrueBrain> and yeah, it should also auto-select them on first run 23:04:29 <spnda> not just first, users could connect new displays even while the game is running 23:04:44 <TrueBrain> and there it becomes a bit tricky :P 23:04:57 <TrueBrain> you could also adjust it if people change where OpenTTD is on which monitor 23:04:57 <spnda> My answer: Update everytime one updates the game options window 23:05:16 <spnda> And only on game launch detect the refresh rate of the current monitor 23:05:23 <TrueBrain> we solved it for fonts etc by having a top item called "(autodetect)" or what is the name 23:05:31 <spnda> (auto-detect), yeah 23:05:43 <TrueBrain> although that is currently lacking what that auto-detected value is :D 23:05:48 <TrueBrain> but that is a small improvement 23:06:10 <TrueBrain> and I was talking about auto-select btw, not detect 23:06:18 <TrueBrain> so on first run, it should pick a refresh-rate that fits your machine 23:06:24 <TrueBrain> instead of "60" or what-ever default 23:07:12 <TrueBrain> or every run, if we go the "(auto-detect)" route, I guess 23:07:18 <TrueBrain> well, make something pretty, I would say :D 23:07:35 <TrueBrain> but as I wrote, I would prefer we keep that for 1.12, but I would love to get some input from others devs on that too 23:07:41 <TrueBrain> I might be too scared of users doing stupid shit :P 23:08:31 <spnda> Yeah, I think 1.12 is the better one for the auto detect stuff. However, the refresh option could be very good for 1.11. Or maybe 1.11.1? 23:08:48 <TrueBrain> as I wrote, above 60 it becomes a bit touch&go what the game does 23:08:55 <TrueBrain> a semi-big game really suffers 23:09:01 <spnda> personally 144 has been fine but I'll test again 23:09:03 <TrueBrain> we need to make some more changes to make that a lot better 23:09:25 <LordAro> agreed, not enough time to get it in 1.11 sanely, imo 23:09:26 <spnda> yeah as you commented in my pr (thx btw) 23:09:52 <TrueBrain> but, that said, I really wouldn't mind if 1.12 doesn't take another year :P 23:09:58 <TrueBrain> as honestly .. backporting sucks balls 23:10:12 <spnda> atleast keep to the yearly april 1st schedule :) 23:10:51 <TrueBrain> its so fun on Steam Discussions 23:10:54 <TrueBrain> people claiming it is a joke 23:10:56 <TrueBrain> etc etc 23:11:02 <TrueBrain> and not like: is this a joke? 23:11:05 <TrueBrain> but: THIS CLEARLY IS A JOKE 23:11:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #8812: Add: Option to (dis-)allow accelerated video drivers. https://git.io/JqTSV 23:11:23 <TrueBrain> can't believe a 10 year old joke still works :P 23:12:06 <TrueBrain> reminds me, I still don't know why michi_cc asked about translations :D 23:17:33 <spnda> Also from brief testing from my last multiplayer world (isn't large, just medium) and I get fluid 240fps constantly 23:17:52 <TrueBrain> just zoom out once :P 23:18:07 <spnda> zooming in and out really fast gets it down to 210 no further 23:18:18 <spnda> zooming out doesnt change a thing 23:18:27 <TrueBrain> when you have a decent (NewGRF) game, being zoomed out takes easily 10ms to render the viewports 23:18:45 <TrueBrain> even on a 8700K I have 23:19:31 <spnda> As this is a single thread game I guess my 9600K @ 5.2GHz would be quite a bit faster 23:19:51 <TrueBrain> mine run at 4.5GHz :P 23:19:57 <TrueBrain> but so yeah, my friend, you are not our average user :D 23:20:00 <TrueBrain> far from it ;) 23:20:28 <spnda> 8700k default core clock is 4.7ghz? 23:20:37 <TrueBrain> I haven't anything running 23:20:38 <spnda> but yes, definitely 23:20:41 <TrueBrain> so it downscaled, I guess :) 23:20:51 <TrueBrain> but default is 3.7GHz 23:21:48 <TrueBrain> even without NewGRFs, fully zoomed out on a 256x256 empty map is 10ms for the viewport :P 23:22:35 <TrueBrain> I do have full animation and full detail on, to be clear :) 23:22:59 <spnda> wait are you rendering on CPU or GPU? 23:23:13 <TrueBrain> irrelevant; this is the viewport drawing 23:23:15 <TrueBrain> that happens in software 23:23:17 <TrueBrain> for everyone 23:23:20 <spnda> ah true 23:23:26 <TrueBrain> sorting of sprites etc 23:23:33 <TrueBrain> just .. the bigger the monitor ... 23:23:36 <TrueBrain> the worse the problem gets :D 23:23:44 <spnda> well either way, 1440p, 1k map, fully zoomed out, 0.x to max of 2ms for viewport rendering 23:24:06 <TrueBrain> I have to say, this is with a Debug build .. Release would do a bit better 23:24:19 <spnda> yeah that would definitely be the difference, im using release 23:24:58 <TrueBrain> real problem starts when you load TWs NewGRFs :D 23:25:01 <TrueBrain> they are the worst :P 23:25:12 <spnda> did.... openttd just crash updating a newgrf 23:25:25 <TrueBrain> backtrace or it didn't happen 23:26:00 <spnda> it just closed so thats kinda hard 23:26:16 <TrueBrain> should be a crash.log? 23:26:27 <spnda> no no crash, just instant exit 23:26:35 <TrueBrain> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1241851#p1241851 <- this was a fun game to test with :P 23:26:42 <TrueBrain> but that won't get your FPS above 30 23:27:19 <spnda> and it just crashed again downloading newgrfs 23:27:31 <TrueBrain> attach a debugger and find out why! 23:27:32 <spnda> i have to debug this be right back 23:27:36 <TrueBrain> but for now, I am off to bed :) 23:27:43 <spnda> same for me soon, gn 23:35:28 *** NGC3982 has joined #openttd 23:35:36 <NGC3982> right here. 23:36:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] spnda opened issue #8814: Assertion failed downloading content from BaNaNaS. https://git.io/JqTdZ 23:37:15 <spnda> there, issue for that crash opened. idk seems to be some multithreading issue idk 23:38:48 <spnda> oh also translations bot made the 25000th commit today 23:44:06 <LordAro> :o 23:44:41 <LordAro> that's not our assertion... 23:44:48 <LordAro> can you post more detail? 23:44:55 <spnda> thats it, vs doesnt even catch it 23:45:02 <LordAro> stacktrace or anything? 23:45:10 <spnda> literally nothing but ill try again 23:45:31 <LordAro> can you reproduce it with a clean config? (-c foodir/foo.cfg) 23:45:43 <LordAro> and of course, a completely clean build 23:45:56 <LordAro> (James will ask you all these questions shortly, i'm just getting ahead of him :p ) 23:46:14 <TrueBrain> I have the exact same error when making screenshot when I compile myself 23:46:25 <TrueBrain> With MSVC 23:46:28 <LordAro> that's.. bizarre 23:46:31 <TrueBrain> Couldn't figure out why 23:46:35 <glx> compiling master to check here 23:46:51 <TrueBrain> For sure a local issue with my setup 23:47:07 <TrueBrain> Seems to be mixing vcpkg with msvc libraries 23:47:18 <TrueBrain> Then gave up, because .. MSVC 23:48:36 <TrueBrain> Debugger had issues tracing the problem, not triggers on the error basically 23:48:48 <glx> I think I have latest VS2019, not sure if my vcpkg is up to date 23:48:54 <TrueBrain> Had to step by step find the line triggering it 23:49:11 <TrueBrain> Deep inside libpng I gave up :p 23:49:38 <glx> and of course it has to download symbols, since I'm now on 20H2 23:51:47 <TrueBrain> https://developercommunity.visualstudio.com/t/-popen-will-crash-the-application-if-command-is-to/1226977 23:52:06 <TrueBrain> So issues writing the file, basically 23:53:44 <TrueBrain> Would fit my issues, just no clue why it fails to write :D 23:53:55 <TrueBrain> I start the game via MSYS 23:54:08 <spnda> https://www.codeproject.com/Questions/5161033/Why-this-assertion-failure, here its something about some build commands 23:55:17 <TrueBrain> Second solutions could be the cause too 23:55:35 <TrueBrain> Owh well, really sleep time for me now :D 23:56:10 <spnda> oh btw, it might be unrelated but I get "dbg: [misc] String too long for destination buffer" when I launch the game 23:56:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] azabost opened issue #154: [pl_PL] Translator access request https://git.io/JqTFO 23:57:03 <glx> yeah unrelated 23:58:29 <spnda> I've updated my issue with some info from where the issue comes 23:59:14 *** erle- has quit IRC