Log for #openttd on 15th March 2021:
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07:08:38  <andythenorth> yo
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08:06:55  <dihedral> Greetings
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09:17:39  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] EmperorJake opened issue #194: nmlc doesn't throw an error when GRF name missing
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09:55:52  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 commented on issue #194: nmlc doesn't throw an error when GRF name missing
09:57:58  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #8627: Inflation problem (since 1.11.0 beta1) - price and cost levels, therefore the difficulty level varies depending on the game start date
09:58:01  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh reopened issue #8627: Inflation problem (since 1.11.0 beta1) - price and cost levels, therefore the difficulty level varies depending on the game start date
10:02:18  <TrueBrain> wow, even devs can't talk nice to other devs now
10:02:19  <TrueBrain> great
10:03:20  <TrueBrain> he could have used many other words, but stating "your argument is wrong" is not okay
10:03:31  <TrueBrain> that too, is his opinion
10:03:33  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] nielsmh commented on issue #194: nmlc doesn't throw an error when GRF name missing
10:05:19  <TrueBrain> you can disagree all you want, but this constant stream of second-guessing any decision ever made ..
10:05:25  <TrueBrain> enough is enough
10:11:10  <LordAro> TrueBrain: don't overreact, it's hardly "not talking nice"
10:16:01  <peter1138> Oh no, I have to rebase a commit from August :(
10:16:35  <Xaroth> F
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10:16:42  <peter1138> milek7, is that in Debian 10 then? Also what compiler? gdb DOES take minutes for me, too.
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10:20:36  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8627: Inflation problem (since 1.11.0 beta1) - price and cost levels, therefore the difficulty level varies depending on the game start date
10:20:59  <peter1138> 1424 commits. Hmm.
10:21:18  <LordAro> probably mostly in the graphics drivers :p
10:22:00  <peter1138> I don't think my work projects have graphics drivers :)
10:22:29  <LordAro> ah
10:24:46  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8627: Inflation problem (since 1.11.0 beta1) - price and cost levels, therefore the difficulty level varies depending on the game start date
10:25:14  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I strongly disagree with you :)
10:25:33  <LordAro> :o
10:25:35  <LordAro> TB being mean
10:25:43  <Heiki> dpkg: warning: downgrading openttd from 1.11.0-beta2 to 1.11.0-RC1
10:26:01  <Heiki> capital R is less than b
10:26:04  <LordAro> R < b
10:26:05  <LordAro> ha
10:26:39  <LordAro> that must have always been a thing
10:26:47  <peter1138> Isn't 1.11.0 < either of them?
10:26:47  <TrueBrain> Heiki: lol .. I have seen more software do that, yes :P
10:26:58  <TrueBrain> seems the world picked a poor way of doing versioning
10:27:53  <peter1138> Hmm, a conflict which seems to be mostly due to line ending change. :/
10:28:02  <peter1138> The whole file is a conflict.
10:28:27  <LordAro> line ending issues, in git?
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10:33:23  <peter1138> Happens when you don't have git for windows set up correctly... I don't know why it doesn't just default to being set up correctly :)
10:36:40  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #8627: Inflation problem (since 1.11.0 beta1) - price and cost levels, therefore the difficulty level varies depending on the game start date
10:46:13  <TrueBrain> that moment you are filling GHA disks with the same screenshot over and over
10:46:33  <TrueBrain> something broke my animated-gif-creator :'(
10:59:14  <TrueBrain> owh, lol, the updated NewGRF scanner .. haha
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10:59:53  <TrueBrain> peter1138: that happens with OSes that still think \r\n is the correct way of doing shit ;)
11:00:46  <TrueBrain> well, that is not fair; they are changing that attitude over the last few years
11:13:18  <Wolf01> \r\n is the correct way... typing machine way
11:19:37  <TrueBrain> that annoying moment stuff works locally but not via GHA
11:19:37  <TrueBrain> grr
11:21:07  <TrueBrain> ah, game was stuck on pause :)
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12:05:16  <TrueBrain> rendering screenshots and animated gifs for the title screen competition is a slow process :P
12:05:17  <TrueBrain> lol
12:12:43  <TrueBrain> right, that is prepared for 2TallTyler .. up to him now to bring it to the finish line :)
12:14:56  <andythenorth> hmm I ran out of FIRS things to optimise
12:15:13  <andythenorth> I was hoping for a 10 second compile, but I'm about 0.5 - 0.9s away from that
12:15:25  <TrueBrain> that is not bad, 10s
12:15:34  <TrueBrain> starting gdb on OpenTTD takes me longer
12:18:13  <andythenorth> if I knew how to use make properly I could reduce it
12:18:21  <TrueBrain> nobody does
12:18:24  <TrueBrain> so ... yeah .. :P
12:18:49  <andythenorth> nml takes 9s of the compile
12:18:55  <andythenorth> whereas grfcodec would take 3s
12:19:14  <andythenorth> so branching to grfcodec when the nml/nfo is unchanged would be advantageous
12:19:23  <andythenorth> when editing sprites, the nml/nfo doesn't change
12:19:51  <andythenorth> OTOH, FIRS used to take about 70 seconds
12:20:24  <LordAro> getting it to do nml -> nfo -> grf always seems... plausible
12:20:36  <andythenorth> Iron Horse does that
12:20:47  <andythenorth> but frosch fixed my makefile clown shoes
12:20:58  <LordAro> %.nfo: %.nml\n\t<nml command here>
12:21:16  <LordAro> %.grf: $(ALL_NFO) $(ALL_SPRITES)\n\t<grfcodec command here>
12:21:24  <LordAro> that sort of thing
12:40:50  <andythenorth> that sort of thing
12:41:00  <andythenorth> but every time I think I understand make
12:41:05  <andythenorth> it turns out I was mistaken :D
12:41:10  <LordAro> hehe
12:41:31  <andythenorth> the alternative would be to make nml faster again :P
12:41:36  <andythenorth> not sure how much yield there is left
12:42:24  <andythenorth> if the tree could be split up logically to support partial compiling, my uneducated guess is that would yield huge gains
12:42:42  <andythenorth> things that worked great so far
12:43:01  <andythenorth> - speed improvements by frosch, gl* and flh*rne
12:43:07  <andythenorth> - switching to pypy3 (insane faster)
12:43:41  <andythenorth> - using varact 2 procedures to de-duplicate shitloads of repeated code
12:43:58  <LordAro> needs more actual profiling
12:43:59  <andythenorth> - not destroying the nml cache by accident :P
12:44:08  <LordAro> no point guessing at it
12:45:24  <andythenorth> there's some rudimentary timings printed by nml if debug level is 4
12:45:44  <andythenorth> but they're not sophisticated
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14:16:31  <spnda> I know I got a lot about the coding style of my last PR. Is there a doc about the exact ways of the coding style? (I'm unsure about case labels with {} right now)
14:17:25  <LordAro>
14:17:31  <spnda> thx
14:20:34  <spnda> Constructos count as functions I guess?
14:21:15  <LordAro> yes
14:32:06  <TrueBrain> LordAro: any clue where "OpenTTD" is drawn in the main menu?
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14:32:08  <TrueBrain> the sprite on top?
14:32:58  <TrueBrain> 	/* XXX: these are not done */
14:33:03  <TrueBrain> some things in the code still makes me giggle
14:33:11  <TrueBrain> that is a comment from 2004 :D
14:33:34  <TrueBrain> LordAro: nevermind, foundt it .. part of the MainWindow
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14:35:38  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] Wuzzy2 updated pull request #7: Replace outdated Mercurial stuff, update README
14:35:44  <LordAro> TrueBrain: happy to help ;)
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14:36:06  <TrueBrain> :P
14:36:46  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] Wuzzy2 updated pull request #7: Replace outdated Mercurial stuff, update README
14:43:01  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] Wuzzy2 updated pull request #7: Replace outdated Mercurial stuff, update README
14:48:36  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] Wuzzy2 updated pull request #7: Replace outdated Mercurial stuff, update README
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14:49:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] Wuzzy2 commented on pull request #7: Replace outdated Mercurial stuff, update README
14:54:15  <andythenorth> hmm
14:54:27  <andythenorth> if I start using a register to store which register to read next
14:54:41  <andythenorth> that's basically Proper Programming, right?
14:54:51  <andythenorth> is newgrf Turing complete? :P
14:54:54  <TrueBrain> you are crazy :P
14:55:24  <andythenorth> I think I'm mostly just stubborn
14:55:28  <andythenorth> and not afraid to look stupid
14:55:33  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] planetmaker commented on pull request #7: Replace outdated Mercurial stuff, update README
15:00:44  <TrueBrain> hmm .. yes/no on news post about title screen voting?
15:01:42  <TrueBrain> I guess we might as well
15:01:45  <TrueBrain> we are spamming this month anyway :D
15:04:30  <LordAro> oh good, we did get some more entries
15:04:34  <LordAro> yeah, go for it
15:04:41  <TrueBrain> yeah .. 5 is better than 2
15:04:43  <TrueBrain> still low :P
15:05:14  <TrueBrain> but there is at least 1 I really like, so that is something :D
15:07:28  <spnda> I really like Chrnan6710's entry, default graphics and all and has everything you'd use in a normal game.
15:08:05  <TrueBrain> well, soon you can vote. And watch them all on different screensizes and how it animated for the first 30s :D
15:08:26  <TrueBrain> I just need to render everything again .. which takes an hour or so :P
15:08:53  <spnda> im currently just being annoyed at how saveload works for #7955
15:09:09  <spnda> really want to finally get finished with that pr
15:09:17  <spnda> tho idk what about multi-tile stations...
15:11:35  <spnda> And I mean look at and the following messages, the guy's got so many suggestions and ideas it's crazy
15:12:50  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] LordAro commented on pull request #7: Replace outdated Mercurial stuff, update README
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15:13:13  <andythenorth> no comment
15:13:30  <Wuzzy> hi
15:15:08  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] Wuzzy2 opened issue #10: Add GitHub Actions support
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15:16:36  <planetmaker> hi
15:17:53  <spnda> So I had this idea of layouts. Let's say there's a enum of different layouts and the newgrf dev can assign the layout as a property. The busses/trucks will behave accordingly to this layout and the graphics just need to be adapted to meet the layout.
15:18:03  <spnda> I think that would make this a bit easier and especially future-proof
15:18:17  <spnda> Also, one could combine different layouts that get added to the game in the future into multi-tile stations
15:18:23  * LordAro waves
15:19:01  <spnda> So I don't actually have to add compatibility with multi-tile stations and could use the same as most stations do, small overlapping station parts.
15:19:52  <LordAro> those roadstops with different layouts do look really nice
15:19:58  <LordAro> but achieving that? the mind boggles
15:20:24  <spnda> yes, especially with some dynamic system that every newgrf author can define
15:20:35  <spnda> And I don't want to go through the shit that stations use for layouts right now
15:20:38  <LordAro> sounds scarily close to newgrf airports ;)
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15:21:52  <spnda> and from what I understood, NewGRF houses are just single tile houses with their own sprites that together form bigger buildings, right?
15:22:06  <LordAro> yeah
15:22:12  <TrueBrain> "Certificate verification failed: The certificate is NOT trusted. The received OCSP status response is invalid.  Could not handshake: Error in the certificate verification."
15:22:17  <TrueBrain> OpenSUSE is acting up lately
15:22:36  <TrueBrain> and hello sir planetmaker  :)
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15:52:30  <andythenorth_> did nobody say state machine yet?
16:06:57  <TrueBrain> if you insist, no, nobody did :)
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16:14:30  <andythenorth_> can we mechanical turk them?
16:15:16  <spnda> TrueBrain: Btw, as you've been fixing a lot of the issues about lag and such, especially with GRF loading, have you ever checked what causes the lag when applying changes in the NewGRF menu and if it is possibly fixable?
16:18:08  <andythenorth_> lag?
16:18:28  <andythenorth_> how many grfs?
16:22:17  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on issue #8627: Inflation problem (since 1.11.0 beta1) - price and cost levels, therefore the difficulty level varies depending on the game start date
16:25:14  <supermop_Home> i do notice map generation takes longer with the nightly i have now
16:34:26  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] pelya commented on issue #8864: GDB is terribly slow when starting OpenTTD on Debian 10
16:35:44  <spnda> andythenorth_: Like.... 10?
16:36:11  <spnda> andythenorth_: It's very short but it can be annoying
16:37:34  <andythenorth_> faint lack of response to clicking the button?
16:37:49  <andythenorth_> when you hit 'yes' ?
16:38:26  <andythenorth_> I suspect either the UI doesn't clear in a sensible order XOR it's just the delay while the grfs reload and run action D / action 6 / whatever
16:43:03  <TrueBrain> spnda: I did not check what exactly causes it; I assumed it is because we have a lot of code that does a lot of stuff in a single function-call
16:43:11  <TrueBrain> and that it is just doing too many stuff
16:43:31  <spnda> ye, I guess so too. But just having it "lag" isn't the best answer is it?
16:43:43  <TrueBrain> this happens on many places
16:43:48  <TrueBrain> for example, when you abort a game
16:43:54  <spnda> didn't you fix that
16:43:56  <TrueBrain> that is one of those that annoy me a lot
16:44:05  <TrueBrain> no
16:44:11  <TrueBrain> but I did prepare for such things to be fixed
16:44:22  <TrueBrain> as basically, it should now be possible to keep the mouse responsive during such moments
16:44:57  <TrueBrain> in theory at least :P
16:46:09  <TrueBrain> supermop_Home: map generation with nightlies / betas / RCs takes longer than full releases
16:46:16  <TrueBrain> if that is what you were comparing :)
16:46:23  <frosch123> newgrf changes involve reloading the baseset as well. so all the sprites are freed and reloaded. keeping the mouse running during that is probably one of the harder problems
16:46:27  <TrueBrain> full releases have a lot of checks disabled :P
16:46:46  <TrueBrain> frosch123: the mouse snapshots the window himself
16:47:00  <TrueBrain> mouse movement undraws, by copying the buffer back in the screen, and draws again
16:47:00  <frosch123> yes, but what about the mouse pointer sprite?
16:47:08  <TrueBrain> good point
16:47:15  <TrueBrain> cache? :D
16:47:34  <frosch123> well, you like challenges :)
16:47:47  <TrueBrain> anyway, it is not on the top of any of my lists to address; the most annoying moments are now smoother
16:49:02  <spnda> Personally, as a NewGRF developer the apply changes button was one of the most annoying. And btw wouldn't it be cool if the sprites would update as the loading bar finishes?
16:49:11  <frosch123> assuming we stored the metadata from grf scan in a file, would people expect that file to be a ini/cfg file? would you get shot if someone added sqlite?
16:49:43  <TrueBrain> sqlite, fanccccyyyyy
16:50:05  <frosch123> too oldschool? is there something more hip?
16:50:18  <TrueBrain> db4? :D
16:50:23  <TrueBrain> too old? Awh
16:50:31  <orudge> SQLite is fast and portable, don't see why not personally!
16:50:39  <TrueBrain> how much data do you plan to store that it requires a database? :D
16:51:34  <frosch123> not much
16:52:07  <frosch123> 4k rows, 20 columns. columns may change between patchpacks/versions or something
16:52:11  <TrueBrain> lol: just mmap the result of the grfscan to a file :P
16:52:21  <frosch123> it's possible to do with ini, i just don't like it :)
16:52:34  <TrueBrain> nobody likes ini-files
16:52:35  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on issue #8627: Inflation problem (since 1.11.0 beta1) - price and cost levels, therefore the difficulty level varies depending on the game start date
16:52:35  <TrueBrain> YAML? :D
16:53:02  <_dp_> toml! :p
16:53:11  <TrueBrain> fuck TOML, nobody likes him :P
16:53:11  <TrueBrain> :D
16:54:20  <TrueBrain> frosch123: anyway, I doubt anyone would stand in your way if you add sqlite :)
16:54:31  <TrueBrain> it does feel like bringing a gun to a pillow-fight, but shrug
16:54:34  <TrueBrain> go big or go home
16:55:41  <frosch123> hmm, considering all the plans for new network protocols, maybe ottd will add nlohmann::json anyway
16:55:52  <frosch123> so, json would be an option
16:56:15  <_dp_> if you don't plan to query it json is better imo
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16:56:33  <TrueBrain> frosch123: is that one that is streamable?
16:57:45  <frosch123> no, it will hold all data on the heap
16:58:00  <frosch123> how much data do you want to stream? :p
16:58:29  <frosch123> <- it's fairly popular in c++
16:58:50  <TrueBrain> meh; so much overhead :D
16:59:24  <TrueBrain> but I asked because I was curious
16:59:30  <TrueBrain> doesn't matter for your usecase :)
17:01:07  <frosch123> i want to avoid ottd adding two dozen serialisation formats, just because someone liked toml or yaml
17:01:39  <frosch123> we have a custom-written ini thingie, but i would prefer if we had a single standard library for the rest
17:01:53  <frosch123> we already use json in some ai/gs context, and for admin port
17:01:55  <TrueBrain> so pick one and make that the rule :D
17:01:57  <frosch123> so json sounds reasonable
17:02:02  <TrueBrain> JSON for transport is fine
17:02:07  <TrueBrain> JSON for human readable .. not so much :D
17:03:03  <_dp_> toml/yaml is for configs, json for data
17:04:25  <frosch123> oh dear... at my old company they were picking a storage format by assigning 3 developers to implement the serialisation in xml, yaml and json.
17:04:56  <frosch123> essentially they measured the skill of the developers, not the suitabilitiy of the format/library
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17:22:13  <_dp_> scaled PIPs look kinda weird
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17:23:44  <_dp_> like wtf are those buttons
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17:26:04  <LordAro> does look a bit odd
17:27:51  <peter1138> That's not PIPs. Or shouldn't be.
17:29:42  <_dp_> hm, yeah, I guess not since it's the same in beta2
17:29:52  <_dp_> but wasn't like that in 1.10.3, was something else scaled?
17:31:15  <peter1138> SetFill(0, 1) is probably not the right thing for that.
17:31:33  <_dp_> spacings are all over the place in 1.11
17:31:49  <_dp_> looked better in 1.10 when at least everything was uniformly unscaled
17:32:27  <peter1138> It wasn't uniformly unscaled though.
17:32:34  <peter1138> It was unscaled and scaled.
17:32:55  <_dp_> well, more or less :p
17:33:10  <peter1138> Can you try some concrete examples?
17:33:28  <peter1138> The group window looks odd, but that isn't, afaict, anything to do with scaled PIPs.
17:37:32  <peter1138> On the group window, I think it's the vehicle matrix on the right hand side that governs the window size. The buttons on the left just stretch to fit.
17:37:55  <peter1138> And I'm fairly sure there's no PIP in play inside a matrix.
17:41:01  <peter1138> Heh, removing SetFill literally leaves a gap in the window. Oops.
17:41:30  <peter1138> Well, it is odd, there is clearly enough room for at least 1 more row in the group list.
17:44:34  <peter1138> SetFill on a matrix is... underwhelming.
17:48:07  <_dp_> did some side-by-side screenshots
17:48:14  <_dp_> some are better but a lot are worse
17:48:27  <_dp_> dunno if that's due to pip or smth else but it's 1.10.3 vs 1.11.0-RC1
17:48:45  <andythenorth_> slow imgur is slow
17:50:04  <andythenorth_> or just not loading :)
17:50:27  <_dp_> yeah, imgur is weird...
17:51:24  <_dp_> ok, this one seems to work:
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17:55:24  <peter1138> Game Options is a perfect example of PIP needing to be scaled.
17:57:01  <peter1138> Now, does anyone really use quad size?
17:57:19  <andythenorth_> mac users on retina with 1.11
17:57:35  * andythenorth_ pure guessing
17:57:40  <_dp_> I do on 4k
17:57:51  * andythenorth_ should make dinner
17:59:07  <_dp_> actually all those screenshots are on the settings I normally use
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17:59:57  <peter1138> The spring aligner looks more usable, I'm guessing there's more to that than PIP.
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18:00:39  <peter1138> *sprite
18:03:59  <peter1138> I guess you could try disabling PIP _and_ regular padding...
18:07:59  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
18:08:00  <DorpsGek>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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18:08:36  <peter1138> Stupid matrix
18:09:36  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep opened pull request #8865: Codechange: Add and use Station::HasFacilities(f).
18:10:21  <peter1138> Highscore Table goes bonkers at 4x when the window isn't big enough.
18:11:30  <peter1138>
18:15:13  <_dp_> for sprite aligner I did this
18:15:21  <_dp_> but spacings made in worse
18:16:14  <nielsm> radical idea: GS controlled inflation, and base costs
18:17:09  <_dp_> sprite aligner in cmclient 1.10.3 vs vanilla 1.11.0-RC1
18:17:16  <andythenorth_> radical idea: delete all the current code and delegate that to a bundled GS too :P
18:18:31  <nielsm> _dp_: I think I had some issues with exactly scaling PIPs when I made that first scaling patch for 1.9 that improved the worst things
18:18:52  <nielsm> pretty sure I experimented with it and decided it was too annoying to deal with
18:20:00  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8865: Codechange: Add and use Station::HasFacilities(f).
18:20:03  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed pull request #8865: Codechange: Add and use Station::HasFacilities(f).
18:29:37  <peter1138> Scaled PIPs are mostly correct, it's just apparently 4x interface scale isn't meant to mean 4x interface scale.
18:30:18  <peter1138> Some of the messed-up-ness is due to not enough screen space at 4x.
18:32:07  <nielsm> I'd also really like to eventually scale the window borders etc up
18:32:13  <nielsm> but that would probably require a lot of work
18:32:39  <LordAro> TTO-style when?
18:32:44  <nielsm> I think they're assumed to be compile time constants in several places
18:32:54  <nielsm> yes TTO style is nice
18:33:37  <peter1138> nielsm, uh, I have a patch for that.
18:33:57  <_dp_> what? borders and bevels are one of the few thing that don't actually need scaling
18:34:30  <LordAro> _dp_: yeah but distances from the edge of the window depends on the width of the borders
18:34:32  <nielsm> I think the 1 px borders become terribly thin to look at on my 24" 4k display
18:34:42  <peter1138>
18:34:54  <LordAro> this isn't CSS, no "out of bounding box" rendering
18:35:28  <LordAro> peter1138: nicely shows up all the things that aren't being centred properly
18:35:50  <peter1138> Well that's a rather old picture anyway.
18:35:56  <peter1138> But yea.
18:35:58  <LordAro> s/aren't/weren't/
18:36:00  <LordAro> :p
18:37:05  <_dp_> LordAro, distance from the edge is already humongous on some windows
18:38:02  <_dp_> peter1138, that's just like 1995 all over again
18:39:34  <nielsm> I'm nostalgic for the windows 3.1 visual style and want it back
18:40:36  <peter1138> The multiple window is fine at 1x and 2x, why does it mess up at 4x...
18:40:46  <peter1138> ...
18:40:49  <peter1138> *multiplayer
18:42:20  <peter1138> Kinda okay with both at 4x
18:45:16  <LordAro> peter1138: there's a lot of things that use interface scale when they should be using gui scale
18:46:03  <peter1138> Padding is interface, so...
18:47:01  <peter1138> Network server window seems to be using some dynamic set up.
18:49:38  <frosch123> LordAro: i know interface scale and font scale, what is gui scale?
18:51:49  <LordAro> frosch123: i'm conflating terms, i mean interface & font
18:52:48  * andythenorth_ likes the peter1138 screenshot
18:53:02  <andythenorth_> 'friendly'
18:53:38  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DonaldDuck313 opened pull request #8866: Fixed British English in the American English translation
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18:57:53  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #8865: Codechange: Add and use Station::HasFacilities(f).
18:58:00  <peter1138> translators  translators, 7 years ago   (August 16th, 2014 6:46pm)
18:58:03  <peter1138> Oof
18:58:24  <peter1138> Dunno why that pasted badly. But translaters set litres to litres then.
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19:00:16  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DonaldDuck313 opened pull request #8867: Fixed translation error in Swedish
19:00:33  <frosch123> LordAro: okay, i was scared people would add a third setting :p
19:00:53  <peter1138> Padding Scale
19:00:57  <peter1138> Border Scale
19:01:55  <peter1138> Time Scale
19:02:39  <peter1138> If we ever did do "daylength" we should call it that just to confuse everything. And have it in with the other 6 scaling options.
19:03:13  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed pull request #8867: Fixed translation error in Swedish
19:03:16  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8867: Fixed translation error in Swedish
19:03:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] pelya closed issue #8864: GDB is terribly slow when starting OpenTTD on Debian 10
19:05:47  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] 2TallTyler opened pull request #198: Add: 1.11 Title screen voting announcement
19:07:50  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] Wuzzy2 commented on pull request #7: Replace outdated Mercurial stuff, update README
19:19:30  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #198: Add: 1.11 Title screen voting announcement
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19:39:11  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8866: Fixed British English in the American English translation
19:39:14  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #8866: Fixed British English in the American English translation
19:39:17  <TrueBrain> couldn't resist copy/pasting LordAro :P
19:40:08  <TrueBrain> frosch123: settled on what format to use for what? :D
19:40:42  <LordAro> oh, didn't even see that one
19:40:53  <TrueBrain> I noticed, so I had a little bit of fun with it :)
19:41:42  <TrueBrain> are there more Steam translations already ... /me checks
19:42:52  <TrueBrain> 4 more, w00p
19:48:42  <TrueBrain> our macOS nightly failed :'(
19:49:02  <TrueBrain> notarization, to be exact
19:49:11  <TrueBrain> non-descriptive error
19:49:12  <TrueBrain> lol
19:49:22  <LordAro> :(
19:49:39  <TrueBrain> well, we will see tomorrow again!
19:57:02  <TrueBrain> why .. is Hacker News not loading?!
19:57:07  <TrueBrain> how ... do I survive this?!
19:57:12  <LordAro> hosted by OVH? :p
19:57:37  <Eddi|zuHause> that might be... unhealthy
19:58:14  <TrueBrain> LordAro: yes, the fire is delayed by a few days, but finally hit them :confused face:
19:58:14  <TrueBrain> :P
19:58:35  <LordAro> makes perfect sense!
20:02:40  <TrueBrain> I like how 2TallTyler suggests to play the socials for the title competition :)
20:02:47  <frosch123> TrueBrain: sorry, i got distracted by the vision of a "realism scale" setting
20:02:59  <TrueBrain> "oeh, pretty bird"
20:03:00  <TrueBrain> :D
20:03:30  <frosch123> no, it wasn't pretty
20:03:47  <TrueBrain> lol
20:03:48  <TrueBrain> poor bird
20:09:12  <_dp_> can openttd select 40bpp blitter by default?
20:18:57  <frosch123> it does if you click "hardware acceleration", doesn't it?
20:22:30  <planetmaker> hm... titlegame. I think I have a personal favourite :)
20:22:43  <peter1138> The one in master?
20:23:04  <planetmaker> That, too :P But, I just looked through the entries
20:23:05  <nielsm> yeah I think opengl uses either 40bpp or 8bpp, never 32bpp?
20:23:25  <planetmaker> Not 100% convinced by any tbh
20:23:28  <nielsm> and 8bpp is strongly not preferred now
20:29:56  <michi_cc> _dp_: 40bpp is the preferred blitter if the video driver supports it.
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20:46:44  <heffer> Is there any benefit of using fluidsynth over timidity? The Fedora package is currently not built against fluidsynth-libs because that would pull in huge  (~150MB) soundfonts and all. Instead it "Suggests" timidity which in turn pulls in soundfonts. But with Suggested dependencies you can tell RPM to just ignore them (for example when building docker images or the like).
20:48:25  <nielsm> heffer: ability to volume control from in game, and kind of cleaner shutdown when changing songs
20:48:45  <heffer> good to know. thanks!
20:49:38  <nielsm> fluidsynth links the library directly into ottd and runs the rendered music through the game's internal sound mixer, the timidity solution just calls an external program with a filename to play the music so there's no direct volume control, and changing song means killing that subprocess
21:00:14  <heffer> Also, just to confirm, on Linux building against Allegro doesn't make much sense if you have the option to build against SDL, right?
21:00:56  <nielsm> well allegro doesn't give you the option for OpenGL output now
21:01:19  <nielsm> but I think it might potentially be very slightly faster in non-OGL mode?
21:02:01  <heffer> I haven't tested it in a long time. But SDL does a better Job on Wayland I assume, with all the work that went into better supporting it in SDL2
21:04:45  <TrueBrain> SDL2 and Waylands are friends since a month or so
21:05:03  <TrueBrain> so you get a nice window with buttons to minimize and maximize etc
21:06:12  <TrueBrain> so if I were a distro, I would only build OpenTTD against SDL2 :)
21:06:19  <heffer> Also fixes mouse issues if you use fractional scaling on gnome.
21:06:35  <heffer> Still my mouse jumps to the centre of the screen every once in a while.
21:11:42  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] orudge updated pull request #7: Replace outdated Mercurial stuff, update README
21:11:49  <andythenorth_> lol I so hate the newgrf liveries implementation
21:11:54  <andythenorth_> it's fucking awful :)
21:12:02  * andythenorth_ will get back in a box now
21:12:10  <andythenorth_> it's just gobsmackingly crap
21:13:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] orudge commented on pull request #7: Replace outdated Mercurial stuff, update README
21:18:31  <andythenorth_> I literally do not understand
21:18:31  <TrueBrain> that moment you move a repo from one owner to the other on GHA .. and ... out of nowhere, Actions stop working
21:18:32  <TrueBrain> lol
21:18:36  <andythenorth_> I'm not bagging on RUKTS grf here
21:18:44  <andythenorth_> I select *the whole train*
21:18:46  <andythenorth_> choose the livery
21:18:49  <andythenorth_> don't get the livery
21:18:56  <andythenorth_> the feature is stupid
21:20:30  <andythenorth_> I wonder also if Gwyd is aware how it looks to have 'Fag', 'Barbie' and 'Swallow' as livery options
21:20:32  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] orudge requested changes for pull request #7: Replace outdated Mercurial stuff, update README
21:21:11  <andythenorth_> on a par with FIRS 4 'slag', 'coke', 'acid'
21:21:25  <_dp_> is that ok that "-b 40bpp-anim -v sdl" crashes on assertion?
21:22:13  <nielsm> that sounds nongood
21:23:05  <michi_cc> Still, not a combination that can work. A proper error message would be nice I guess.
21:23:48  <TrueBrain> took 90 minutes to render all the screens etc for 5 title game entries .. lol ..
21:23:52  <TrueBrain> I might have overdone this a TINY bit
21:24:25  <LordAro> lol
21:24:47  <LordAro> _dp_: ideally you should never be able to trigger an assert
21:25:14  <TrueBrain> LordAro: is that including fuzzing savegames? :D
21:26:06  <michi_cc> LordAro: Play Release then? :P
21:26:17  <TrueBrain> hahaha :D
21:26:35  <TrueBrain> you can't trigger what is not there :D
21:27:34  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] Wuzzy2 updated pull request #7: Replace outdated Mercurial stuff, update README
21:28:55  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] Wuzzy2 commented on pull request #7: Replace outdated Mercurial stuff, update README
21:29:34  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] orudge approved pull request #7: Replace outdated Mercurial stuff, update README
21:30:21  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] orudge closed issue #5: Update README (Mercurial → Git)
21:30:24  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] orudge closed issue #6: Replace .hgignore file
21:30:27  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] orudge merged pull request #7: Replace outdated Mercurial stuff, update README
21:31:56  <glx>  <TrueBrain> took 90 minutes to render all the screens etc for 5 title game entries .. lol .. <-- outdated cache I guess
21:32:03  <TrueBrain> nope
21:32:12  <TrueBrain> well, strictly seen, yes, as I render them only once
21:32:19  <TrueBrain> but it takes that long to render 5 savegames :D
21:32:58  <glx> well screeshot every frame can take time, then ffmpeg takes a lot more time
21:33:11  <TrueBrain> obviously :)
21:33:30  <LordAro> TrueBrain: ideally, yes
21:33:42  <TrueBrain> LordAro: you know that is not true, not by a long shot, right? :D
21:33:47  <LordAro> prwctically, the savegame system is not very good at handling invalid data
21:33:54  <LordAro> TrueBrain: IDEALLY
21:33:56  <TrueBrain> :D
21:34:21  <TrueBrain> when people suggested hardening it, till a few weeks ago even, the reaction was: no, we don't do that :)
21:34:38  <TrueBrain> it is not only invalid data btw .. even valid data is not bound checked etc
21:34:44  <TrueBrain> it is really a lot of work to get that in a good shape
21:35:00  <milek7> isn't disabling asserts in release somewhat a security problem? ;p
21:35:21  <Wuzzy> hey orudge, while you're looking at OpenSomething PRs, can you also look at:
21:35:39  <orudge> Wuzzy: I already checked it out earlier, just haven't had a chance to test it yet
21:35:50  <Wuzzy> cool
21:36:00  <orudge> I have other work to do tonight so probably won't be tonight, but I am just looking at pushing the Actions workflows for OpenMSX while I'm in that area
21:36:04  <Wuzzy> i noticed something strange with openmsx addon
21:36:27  <Wuzzy> when i compile it with make and move the .tar file to ~/.openttd/baseset, OpenTTD fails to detect it
21:36:45  <Wuzzy> but when I untar the .tar file into this directory, it suddenly works?!
21:36:50  <LordAro> yup
21:36:52  <Wuzzy> how is this possible?
21:36:56  <orudge> I think the music needs to be untarred
21:37:04  <TrueBrain>  undefined reference to symbol 'log10f@@GLIBC_2.2.5'
21:37:05  <TrueBrain> hmm
21:37:07  <LordAro> there are Reasons why music sets need to be unpacked first
21:37:26  <Wuzzy> ah, openttd does not support tarred music, so this is intentional?
21:37:34  <LordAro> yes
21:37:53  <Wuzzy> ah, ok, i was afraid the openmsx is a bit broken with the last PR 😉
21:37:55  <LordAro> i've no idea what the intention is, but it is by design :p
21:38:12  <LordAro> TrueBrain: that's a good one
21:38:21  <Wuzzy> hmmm but in that case it probably doesnt make sense to generate any .tar file in openmsx, right, orudge ?
21:38:34  <orudge> Wuzzy: no, it still gets distributed on BaNaNaS that way (I assume)
21:38:40  <orudge> I suspect everything except extmidi would be able to operate out of a .tar now
21:38:45  <orudge> but maybe I'm wrong
21:38:54  <LordAro> it's a hell of a lot easier to distrivute a tar than a folder
21:38:56  <orudge> extmidi would presumably just require the music to be written to a temp folder
21:39:04  <LordAro> mm, likely
21:39:07  <TrueBrain> BaNaNaS can only distribute tars :) The client auto-extracts it btw
21:39:12  <TrueBrain> (when downloaded via BaNaNaS)
21:39:31  <nielsm> nah only the two win32 midi players support reading midi files directly, all the others need to dump to a file first
21:39:39  <TrueBrain> so you could wonder, if extraction is important, why it doesn't autoextract tar files if it finds them :D
21:39:54  <LordAro> maybe it would make sense to- ^
21:39:56  <TrueBrain> (not in a temp; just in the baseset folder)
21:40:02  <Wuzzy> okay, now it makes sense, i think openmsx is fine then
21:40:12  <frosch123> <- seems to have worked
21:40:13  <nielsm> fluidsynth and the macos one could definitely be made to play directly tho
21:40:23  <TrueBrain> frosch123: you are a wizard!
21:40:24  <orudge> Hmm, why are my workflows not running in orudge/OpenMSX
21:40:27  <orudge> They work for all my other forks :|
21:40:41  <Wuzzy> I am still terribly confused by #1:
21:40:54  <LordAro> frosch123: nice
21:41:03  <Wuzzy> the PR sounds like as if one music track in OpenMSX is broken?!
21:41:26  <TrueBrain> orudge: I have a similar issue .. workflows worked in my own repo, I moved it to OpenTTD, and it stopped working
21:41:27  <glx> orudge: they should work if they are in any branch of your repo
21:41:34  <orudge> TrueBrain: I may need to do something similar for Windows Store at one point
21:41:47  <TrueBrain>
21:41:50  <orudge> glx: It normally works... have pushed to both the master and my actual branch in my repo
21:41:51  <TrueBrain> it is not us, it is them
21:41:54  <orudge> I assume something's broken at GitHub
21:41:57  <orudge> Aha
21:41:59  <orudge> That'll be it, yes
21:42:05  <TrueBrain> orudge: ah, yes, I wanted to ask you about Windows Store ... I forgot :(
21:42:17  <TrueBrain> well, we now know how it should be done .. well .. frosch123 does :P
21:42:18  <LordAro> Wuzzy: it's missing a lot of justification & explanation, for sure
21:42:47  <LordAro> if the author doesn't respond "soon", then can probably just be closed
21:43:05  <orudge> TrueBrain: No worries. I do have a branch that auto-builds an appx, but it's a bit ugly, so I haven't PR'd it yet :P Translations etc I can look at; Microsoft just wants a CSV with everything in ultimately, so I can easily enough write a script to extract them from a .lng file
21:43:21  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] Wuzzy2 commented on pull request #1: Release OpenMSX 0.3.2
21:43:22  <LordAro> should've named steam-data more generically, now you have to create another repo :p
21:43:28  <TrueBrain> I also still need to fix you the nice images .. ugh :P
21:43:54  <Wuzzy> i agree, its probably for the better to close the PR, there is poor justification, and the PR is chaotic
21:44:04  <TrueBrain> reminds me, I can just add the images to steam-data repo too now ofc
21:44:41  <Wuzzy> maybe give them like 1-2 more weeks, and if no response, close.
21:47:39  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] orudge approved pull request #8: Remove: .devzone directory
21:47:50  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] orudge merged pull request #8: Remove: .devzone directory
21:48:11  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] orudge commented on issue #10: Add GitHub Actions support
21:55:28  <TrueBrain> LordAro: well, I am now fuzzing the openttd.cfg .. in possibly the worst way possible :D
21:55:36  <TrueBrain> slow as fuck :P
21:56:37  <LordAro> oh no
21:57:35  <TrueBrain>  exec speed : 1.75/sec (zzzz...)
21:57:38  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] frosch123 commented on issue #159: [pl_PL] Translator access request
21:57:38  <TrueBrain> I mean .. really slow :P
22:00:34  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] frosch123 commented on issue #160: [ru_RU] Translator access request
22:01:23  <frosch123> no german translation since november, let's see whether they translate russian then :)
22:02:31  <frosch123> oh, bots are dead :/
22:02:48  <TrueBrain> GHA is dead :P
22:02:57  <TrueBrain> no clue if they requeue them ..
22:06:33  <frosch123> good excuse, i'll try the eints stuff tomorrow then :)
22:06:44  <TrueBrain> not a lot we can do tonight with that, no :)
22:06:48  <TrueBrain> sleep well frosch123 :)
22:06:53  <frosch123> night
22:06:55  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
22:07:13  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] 2TallTyler updated pull request #198: Add: 1.11 Title screen voting announcement
22:08:08  <TrueBrain> anyone feels reviewing ^^? I am a bit too close to all that to do one :)
22:22:05  <peter1138> Err
22:28:32  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] Wuzzy2 opened pull request #11: Credit musicians in readme
22:30:44  <TrueBrain> ha, found a way to crash OpenTTD with a modified config file :D
22:30:46  *** Samu has quit IRC
22:30:51  <TrueBrain> src/core/math_func.hpp:79: T Clamp(T, T, T) [with T = int]: Assertion `min <= max' failed.
22:31:07  <TrueBrain> did not expect that, honestly :)
22:31:19  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
22:31:55  <TrueBrain> happens when you set an invalid resolution, by the quick looks of things
22:32:03  <TrueBrain> will make a decent bug-report out of it tomorrow
22:37:20  <andythenorth_> bed
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22:40:45  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #8868: Fix: OSK layout not scaled for 2x or 4x GUI scale.
22:43:09  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #8868: Fix: OSK layout not scaled for 2x or 4x GUI scale.
22:45:22  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
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22:51:32  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8868: Fix: OSK layout not scaled for 2x or 4x GUI scale.
23:01:59  *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
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23:19:00  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] Wuzzy2 opened issue #12: Big Man Boogie is a temporary replacement for Keep on rolling (bring it back, maybe?)
23:23:42  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] orudge commented on issue #12: Big Man Boogie is a temporary replacement for Keep on rolling (bring it back, maybe?)
23:24:42  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] orudge commented on issue #12: Big Man Boogie is a temporary replacement for Keep on rolling (bring it back, maybe?)
23:30:08  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] Wuzzy2 commented on pull request #1: Release OpenMSX 0.3.2
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23:45:27  <TrueBrain> okay, GHA should be alive again
23:45:28  <TrueBrain> lets test that
23:46:19  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain approved pull request #198: Add: 1.11 Title screen voting announcement
23:46:24  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain merged pull request #198: Add: 1.11 Title screen voting announcement
23:47:09  <glx> at least bot noticed the /approve
23:47:24  <TrueBrain> that kinda surprised me honestly
23:47:27  <TrueBrain> other events did not reply
23:47:31  <TrueBrain> replay
23:48:20  <TrueBrain> it always surprises me how many unique paths a fuzzer can find
23:48:24  <TrueBrain> by just .. fuzzing
23:48:29  <TrueBrain> still only 1 crash so far
23:52:14  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened issue #8869: Setting resolution really small in openttd.cfg crashes the game
23:52:46  <TrueBrain> I was sure it enforced a minimum size of 64x64
23:52:50  <TrueBrain> clearly I am wrong :D
23:53:42  <TrueBrain> I am just waiting for James to ask for details :P
23:54:30  <glx> I though minimal was 640x480 (and it's already too small)
23:54:47  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.4.21
23:55:08  <TrueBrain> either this got lost during some rewrite
23:55:15  <TrueBrain> or it never worked on the resolution setting :D
23:55:50  <TrueBrain> in 1.9 the screen is made JUST big enough for it to not crash
23:56:00  <TrueBrain> so it is a regression
23:57:26  <TrueBrain> lot of outages this evening
23:57:29  <TrueBrain> can we blame them all on OVH?
23:57:40  <TrueBrain> Hacker News, GHA, Azure, Reddit

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