Log for #openttd on 24th March 2021:
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00:08:15  <spnda> k, release first version.
00:08:40  <spnda> gonna write a forum post about it tomorrow i think
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01:31:05  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8761: Client gets kicked for invalid packet when joining large map with a new company
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01:59:16  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 opened issue #8887: Emergency netsave on server restart connection failure saves title game
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02:25:42  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] SiderealArt opened issue #169: [zh_TW] Translator access request
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03:15:02  <supermop_Home> hmmm where do i put the ANIM flag in a spriteset?
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06:51:05  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] rexxars opened pull request #195: Add: Ground sprite constants for  partially cleared tiles
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07:41:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] planetmaker requested changes for pull request #195: Add: Ground sprite constants for  partially cleared tiles
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07:58:45  <andythenorth> yo
07:58:51  <NGC3982> hi
07:58:52  <andythenorth> can haz breakfast?
07:59:59  <NGC3982> absolutely, but with conditions
08:00:11  <NGC3982> toast is a must
08:03:28  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on issue #8761: Client gets kicked for invalid packet when joining large map with a new company
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09:10:36  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #8886: Changelog button crashes the game if NewGRF contains relative folder
09:24:28  <TrueBrain> owh boy ... NewGRFs read the "max height" before generation is done
09:27:41  <TrueBrain> yeah, I need frosch123's help to overcome that issue
09:27:55  <TrueBrain> as OpenGFX+landscape does not like that
09:29:41  <Wolf01> It should read the generated max height? I won't see much difference as I would expect the same "there is no suitable place to build industry XYZ"
09:30:08  <TrueBrain> now sure how this is helping me :P
09:31:44  <Wolf01> The only thing I would change is a pre-generation check of settings instead of waiting for a 4k map to be generated and then throw a warning which could be easily checked before (like no snowline etc)
09:32:29  <Wolf01> Or even missing vehicles because starting date set too early
09:32:35  <TrueBrain> ugh, the whole snow table is set before map generation even .. ugh ..
09:32:39  <TrueBrain> frosch123: our idea is not working :D
09:33:09  <TrueBrain> I need to save and reload the map before it works :D
09:35:53  <andythenorth> "snow is mad"
09:36:18  <andythenorth> goes it throw out snow, delegate to grf, bundle grf with game
09:36:21  <andythenorth> grf decides snow height
09:36:26  * andythenorth is no help sorry
09:36:46  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: reading back "the thread" about 1.11 generating "wrong" maps, the complaint is that it cannot generate flat maps .. but all you showed is it is generating too flat maps :P Made me giggle :D
09:36:47  <andythenorth> 'bundled grf with game' is my equivalent of 'state machine' from Eddi
09:37:14  <andythenorth> TrueBrain glad you found the lolz :)
09:37:20  <andythenorth> I should work eh
09:37:22  <andythenorth> money to be made
09:37:26  <andythenorth> oof
09:42:30  <TrueBrain> <- patch itself was simple, but .. NewGRFs ruining it once again :P
09:42:43  <TrueBrain> I will finish the snowline area and desert area this afternoon
09:42:51  <TrueBrain> after that hopefully frosch123 can figure out how to fix NewGRFs :D
09:43:05  <andythenorth> I am not going to try and understand the issue properly :(
09:43:17  <TrueBrain> you don't have to; it is a coding issue
09:43:27  <andythenorth> but I am puzzled why newgrf needs to make this so difficult
09:43:37  <andythenorth> newgrf is an imperfect thing anyway
09:43:48  <TrueBrain> this is just a problem of order
09:43:50  <TrueBrain> nothing else
09:44:15  <TrueBrain> (as in, order of operation)
09:46:04  <andythenorth> OOOf
09:48:31  <Wolf01> Break backward compatibility! :P
09:49:18  <Wolf01> OpenTTD 2.0
09:50:25  <Wolf01> I think that's the reason they had to make transport fever first and then transport fever 2... the second reason might be money
10:05:25  <Xaroth> call it OpenTTD 3.0 and change the way all string handling is done, breaking backward compat.
10:06:04  <Xaroth> warning: you might end up supporting the older version for a decade+.
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10:17:52  <LordAro> Xaroth: nah, OpenTTD 6 with some weird amount of unicode support
10:21:37  <Wolf01> Drop version numbers, they are meaningless: OpenTTD XP
10:21:53  <Wolf01> Better: OpenTTD XD
10:25:33  <Xaroth> LordAro: that should be the name of the NewGRF that tries to bridge all the differences
10:25:49  <Xaroth> but in secret is just a bunch of hacks glued together to give the illusion of functioning.
10:48:13  <_dp_> hm... reddit discovered cyclic autoreplacement
11:20:45  <Wolf01> ahahaha I expected this one
11:21:53  <LordAro> aha
11:22:39  <Wolf01> U-turn in canals should be forbidden :P
11:40:31  <Eddi|zuHause> they used the wrong type of boat in the news message
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12:33:17  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] 2TallTyler opened issue #196: Suspected integer underflow when switch returns a negative number
12:34:03  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro commented on issue #196: Suspected integer underflow when switch returns a negative number
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12:42:19  <supermop_Home> hmm i should try to get reddit people to use my grf
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12:53:36  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] Eddi-z commented on issue #196: Suspected integer underflow when switch returns a negative number
13:00:58  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] Eddi-z commented on issue #196: Suspected integer underflow when switch returns a negative number
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13:07:56  <TrueBrain> what is the best way to iterate over all tiles in OpenTTD?
13:08:01  <TrueBrain> is there some TILE_LOOP or what-ever?
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13:10:40  <Eddi|zuHause> there's the existing tile loop that traverses all tiles over a series of 256 ticks
13:11:12  <TrueBrain> not what I am looking for, but tnx :)
13:11:19  <TrueBrain> I just do a double for-loop for now
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13:11:59  <Eddi|zuHause> there's also a "circular" tile loop (where "circle" means "square")
13:12:23  <Wolf01> Looks like minecraft
13:12:44  <Eddi|zuHause> and if you really want ALL tiles, you can do a single for-loop
13:13:22  <Eddi|zuHause> because the TileIndex is continuous
13:16:34  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: "for (TileIndex tile = 0; tile != MapSize(); tile++) {" [random line from afterload.cpp]
13:16:48  <TrueBrain> I expected some macro, honestly
13:17:17  <TrueBrain> anyway, tnx, it will have to do
13:18:17  <Eddi|zuHause> iirc there's some tilearea stuff somewhere around the station code
13:19:26  <andythenorth> what is the best way to iterate over all connected water tiles in OpenTTD?
13:19:29  * andythenorth asking for a friend
13:19:36  <TrueBrain> funny, you can never have a 100% snow coverage in OpenTTD
13:19:43  <TrueBrain> reason is simple: we don't have the coastal tiles :P
13:20:01  <Eddi|zuHause> correct
13:20:37  <_dp_> can't you have no water? :p
13:21:42  <TrueBrain> haha, fair :)
13:21:48  <TrueBrain> with any water, you cannot have ... ;)
13:24:32  <TrueBrain> hmm, 1% is lowest amount of water :P
13:25:11  <andythenorth> I could draw snow tiles
13:27:02  <TrueBrain> means you cannot make true subarctics easily :P
13:27:18  <andythenorth> I could draw snow tiles
13:27:25  <TrueBrain> good for you :P
13:27:36  <TrueBrain> I tend not to join scope-creep :)
13:27:41  <TrueBrain> something for 1.12, I would say :)
13:27:41  <andythenorth> I will moan a lot
13:27:47  <andythenorth> but I drew the river banks
13:28:08  <andythenorth> also 100% snow breaks default farms but eh
13:28:16  <andythenorth> THAT RESTRICTION
13:28:19  <andythenorth> goes it throw out?
13:28:32  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: while at it, draw river tiles on arbitrary slopes
13:28:48  <andythenorth> because $someone will then do diagonal rivers?
13:29:00  <andythenorth> so we don't have weird-ass square rivers?
13:29:03  <Eddi|zuHause> no. different things
13:29:44  <Eddi|zuHause> you can already do that, if you redraw the river shores
13:30:03  <Eddi|zuHause> (you just can't build rails on the other halftile)
13:30:14  <andythenorth> oh that
13:30:15  <andythenorth> pfff
13:32:57  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] supermop commented on issue #44: Open GFX Base Maglev Roofs
13:34:14  <supermop_Home> half-tile rivers?
13:35:09  <TrueBrain> wtf are conditions for Forest to be plantable in arctic?
13:35:15  <TrueBrain> it seems to be more than just snow
13:36:18  <Eddi|zuHause> it could be snowline+1 or something
13:36:38  <TrueBrain> even at +5 it is not planting anything
13:38:02  <LordAro> supermop_Home: PR it
13:38:28  <Eddi|zuHause> 	if (_settings_game.game_creation.landscape == LT_ARCTIC) {
13:38:30  <Eddi|zuHause> 		if (GetTileZ(tile) < HighestSnowLine() + 2) {
13:38:31  <Eddi|zuHause> 			return_cmd_error(STR_ERROR_FOREST_CAN_ONLY_BE_PLANTED);
13:39:00  <Eddi|zuHause> so not the current snowline, the highest snowline
13:39:52  <TrueBrain> all the same value, so that is not the issue really
13:40:03  <TrueBrain> that name is also silly btw :D
13:40:14  <TrueBrain> well, SnowLine .. I guess
13:42:54  <TrueBrain> owh, I see what is going on
13:43:00  <TrueBrain> I calculate the snow line height after industries
13:43:01  <TrueBrain> ugh
13:43:10  <TrueBrain> there are too many ways map generation can call functions
13:43:34  <supermop_Home> LordAro i might, i might want to tweak it a bit more first
13:43:56  <LordAro> supermop_Home: well, your call, but it seems to me to be a good change
13:44:02  <Eddi|zuHause> so you're still looking for the correct place in the initialisation process to run your calculation?
13:44:43  <TrueBrain> okay, "very flat" now doesn't work
13:44:45  <TrueBrain> but .. DUH
13:44:52  <supermop_Home> i think the lintel/beam of monorail station could also use some work
13:46:24  <supermop_Home> the regular brick rail station maybe could use some quoins or something
13:51:32  <Eddi|zuHause> and what now is a "quoin"? never heard that word before
13:56:08  <andythenorth> fancy stonework?
14:02:56  <supermop_Home> stones at corners of brick or stone buildings
14:03:21  <supermop_Home> that register and protect the brick or lesser quality stones
14:03:34  <supermop_Home> and have become stylized
14:04:09  <Eddi|zuHause> so some detailing
14:04:22  <supermop_Home> also refers to like fancier key or arch stones oin a brick arch
14:05:02  <supermop_Home> yeah, something so its not just a homogenous red-brown slab with holes in it
14:13:04  <spnda> does anyone here use bananas-frontend-cli?
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14:24:52  <TrueBrain> oef, desert is a bit evil
14:27:32  <TrueBrain> tropic zone grows into the desert
14:27:37  <TrueBrain> so does water
14:27:49  <TrueBrain> so if you want 50% desert, you never get it, as from 2 sides it grows inside the desert area
14:28:09  <TrueBrain> which makes for really shitty maps
14:30:42  <TrueBrain> a desert value of 90% makes nice maps
14:30:46  <TrueBrain> but that is ~50% desert :P
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14:33:51  <andythenorth> screenshot or didn't happen
14:34:03  <andythenorth> I am so becoming a fan of discord for that reason alone
14:34:05  <TrueBrain> there is no way to screenshot that in a way that is meaningful :)
14:34:28  <andythenorth> where is your livecoding twitch stream?
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14:34:41  <TrueBrain> would mean I need to put on pants
14:34:58  <andythenorth> hmm
14:35:09  <andythenorth> oof
14:55:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] rexxars commented on pull request #195: Add: Ground sprite constants for  partially cleared tiles
15:03:36  <TrueBrain> okay, I also needed a histogram of "edge" tiles
15:03:38  <TrueBrain> butt I think this works
15:04:05  <Eddi|zuHause> a what of what?
15:05:05  <TrueBrain> 50% desert is now, give or take, 50% desert
15:06:11  <Eddi|zuHause> iirc there was an issue with water, where you get either 20% or 80%, but nothing inbetween
15:08:22  <TrueBrain> now the question .. should "snow coverage" overshoot or undershoot or which-ever-is-closest
15:08:23  <TrueBrain> hmm
15:10:28  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] rexxars commented on pull request #195: Add: Ground sprite constants for  partially cleared tiles
15:17:03  <TrueBrain> closest seems to give the best results
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15:22:29  <Eddi|zuHause> so you want to redefine snowline as "% of map area" instead of "% of max height"?
15:27:16  <TrueBrain> that is what we decided, yes
15:27:23  <TrueBrain> okay, snow is pretty spot-on, give or take a few percent
15:27:27  <TrueBrain> desert is a lot more difficult
15:27:31  <TrueBrain> and can be off by 10+%
15:27:34  <TrueBrain> but .. nothing I can do about that really
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15:28:12  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds close enough
15:40:55  <TrueBrain> hmm, you can have 0% desert .. as there is never a tropic tile next to water
15:42:32  <peter1138> Heh, ... " Your IP address is listed as a malicious IP. "
15:42:34  <peter1138> Okay.
15:43:36  <LordAro> i think it says that about everyone
15:47:36  <TrueBrain> owh, I was told that next to sea in tropic is "normal", but it is also rainforest ..
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16:13:27  <TrueBrain> lol ... if (abs(..) > abs(..)) can give sign warnings
16:13:29  <TrueBrain> eeuuuuhhhhhhhhh
16:17:49  <nielsm> well if it's over integer types and it doesn't return an unsigned type, then it does have one value for each type that has undefined behaviour (and will typically result in abs(x) being equal to x and being negative)
16:24:07  <LordAro> lol
16:24:42  <LordAro> no unsigned abs functions in STL at all
16:25:06  <TrueBrain> more reason to remove our own abs() :D
16:25:08  <LordAro> our own version on the other hand, is templated
16:25:35  <TrueBrain> it is just a lovely warning to see, like: huh?!
16:28:50  <supermop_Home> where do i put flags like ANIM in a spriteset?
16:36:27  <TrueBrain> damn, desert coverage is DIFFICULT as fuck :P Stupid tropic rules
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16:44:01  <supermop_Home> just remove tropic for 1.11
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16:51:14  <andythenorth> remove FIRS Extreme
16:51:14  <andythenorth> RIP
16:51:40  <andythenorth> TrueBrain how about walk the non-water tiles and just assign them A, B, A, B to desert, rainforest!
16:51:44  <andythenorth> might work!
16:51:53  <andythenorth> or to required %
16:52:00  <andythenorth> might look...not optimium
16:52:27  <TrueBrain> well, the % works fine for non-zero atm :P
16:52:39  <TrueBrain> as my estimations overshoot slightly
16:52:54  <TrueBrain> so it fails only for very low percentages
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16:56:01  <supermop_Home> man i am just reading the wasteland thread from like 2 weeks ago
16:59:39  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] frosch123 commented on pull request #195: Add: Ground sprite constants for  partially cleared tiles
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17:05:58  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 commented on issue #196: Suspected integer underflow when switch returns a negative number
17:31:27  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] 2TallTyler commented on issue #196: Suspected integer underflow when switch returns a negative number
17:38:23  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] planetmaker commented on issue #44: Open GFX Base Maglev Roofs
17:45:33  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 commented on issue #196: Suspected integer underflow when switch returns a negative number
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18:01:23  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LifWirser opened issue #8889: Quit function in disk tollbar menu doesn't work
18:02:19  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8889: Quit function in disk tollbar menu doesn't work
18:04:49  <TrueBrain> hahaha
18:04:51  <TrueBrain> best reply evah :D
18:05:02  <LordAro> i even started up OTTD to check!
18:05:29  <glx> it would have been reported earlier I hopeif it was broken
18:05:46  <LordAro> give them 24 hours, then close it
18:06:53  <_dp_> to fix press alt+f4?
18:07:28  <TrueBrain> imagine he is stuck in game all this time .. this was his only thing he could do before being dragged in the game
18:07:36  <TrueBrain> stuck there .. for decades ..
18:08:02  <_dp_> he asked another player on a server to write report
18:08:08  <_dp_> that's why so little detail
18:08:22  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LifWirser commented on issue #8889: Quit function in disk toolbar menu doesn't work
18:08:47  <TrueBrain> solution: delete scenario editor
18:09:20  <LordAro> nope, still disagree
18:10:07  <LordAro> anyone with linux confirm?
18:10:22  <TrueBrain> works fine on WSL2
18:10:27  <TrueBrain> (Ubuntu 20.04
18:10:54  <LordAro> with the actual RC1 release deb? :p
18:11:12  <TrueBrain> with master, which is really close :P
18:11:18  <LordAro> not a release build though!
18:11:21  <LordAro> presumably
18:11:39  <_dp_> self-compiled rc1 exits fine on ubuntu
18:11:43  <TrueBrain> no clue if I can install buster deb .. lets see
18:12:09  <_dp_> I do remember some issues exiting network server but they're almost certainly not related
18:12:19  <TrueBrain> cannot test buster :P
18:13:07  <TrueBrain> Ubuntu deb package works :P
18:15:16  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8889: Quit function in disk toolbar menu doesn't work
18:16:32  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LifWirser commented on issue #8889: Quit function in disk toolbar menu doesn't work
18:16:51  <milek7_> lol
18:16:53  <LordAro> oh dear
18:17:41  <LordAro> tempted to just lock the issue
18:18:04  <TrueBrain> when people do not talk English, it is always a bit difficult
18:18:12  <LordAro> mm
18:18:59  <frosch123> at least i learned there is a hidden autosave_on_exit setting
18:19:20  <TrueBrain> TIL
18:19:21  <TrueBrain> :D
18:21:59  <TrueBrain> desert is funny .. a line at 3 is often enough to have almost no desert
18:22:11  <TrueBrain> so my algorithm kept getting confused if you wanted no desert :P
18:24:03  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker commented on issue #8889: Quit function in disk toolbar menu doesn't work
18:28:02  <spnda>  I love how the first answer just was "I disagree" when it's literally just empty lol
18:28:54  <spnda> The best thing is, it's not even the first time they've done it:
18:29:25  <LordAro> just a misunderstanding of the GH UI, i guess
18:29:33  <spnda> yeah probably
18:34:49  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LifWirser commented on issue #8889: Quit function in disk toolbar menu doesn't work in scenario editor
18:34:52  <glx> video doesn't work for me planetmaker
18:35:50  <LordAro> video on the GH page works for me
18:35:57  <LordAro> though i'm not sure you meant to record both screens :p
18:36:08  <TrueBrain> it seems "scenario" already changed in "new game" :P
18:36:12  <spnda> glx: It didn't work in Firefox for me, try Chrome, worked for me there
18:36:13  <glx> it says corrupted file
18:36:23  <spnda> yes same
18:36:25  <TrueBrain> glx: same here, FF refuses :)
18:36:47  <Wolf01> It works for me
18:37:06  <Wolf01> Edge chromium btw
18:37:25  <glx> yup it's ok with edge
18:37:41  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8889: Quit function in disk toolbar menu doesn't work in scenario editor
18:37:42  <spnda> yeah might just be some special codec version or something that firefox doesn't like
18:38:14  <LordAro> yeah, no FF
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18:38:38  <Wolf01> Since when a "you can't just quit scenario editor" issue became a github tutorial? XD
18:39:01  <LordAro> since i got accused of calling someone a liar
18:40:00  <TrueBrain> not sure he understood what it means in English, "liar" :)
18:40:08  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
18:40:09  <DorpsGek>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:40:11  <TrueBrain> as in, doubt he grasps how harsh it is :)
18:40:26  <Wolf01> Ahaha link wordreference
18:40:38  <LordAro> TrueBrain: i will try to emulate your optimisitic worldview :p
18:40:44  <glx> is it me or drift is getting worse ?
18:40:48  <LordAro> -i
18:40:53  <TrueBrain> glx: it is very low today, I guess
18:41:11  <TrueBrain> it is only 4 minutes today
18:41:13  <TrueBrain> which is shocking
18:41:14  <LordAro> worth asking GH support about it, perhaps?
18:43:14  <TrueBrain> go for it
18:43:27  <glx> <-- oh it's a nice one ;)
18:45:16  <Wolf01> Oh that's why I found my account disconnected
18:47:59  <TrueBrain> frosch123: did you see the backlog about "auto" heightlevel being a true pita? :D
18:48:10  <TrueBrain> NewGRFs initialize before mapgen starts ..
18:48:23  <TrueBrain> best thing I could come up with: estimate the height before doing the terraingen
18:48:28  <TrueBrain> should be okay-ish
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18:50:11  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LifWirser commented on issue #8889: Quit function in disk toolbar menu doesn't work in scenario editor
18:50:33  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LifWirser closed issue #8889: Quit function in disk toolbar menu doesn't work in scenario editor
18:50:59  <TrueBrain> PEBKAC
18:51:00  <TrueBrain> right
18:51:03  <frosch123> TrueBrain: yes, i read it. it's bad, yes :p
18:51:05  <LordAro> goodo
18:51:41  <TrueBrain> frosch123: what I don't know, and why I didn't try my suggestion yet, if NewGRFs can't be delayed to do these actions
18:51:44  <TrueBrain> 0 idea if that is possible :D
18:52:07  <frosch123> well, you could try to load newgrf after you generate the heights
18:52:20  <frosch123> but you certainly need to load newgrf before generating towns, industires, objects, ...
18:52:36  <TrueBrain> I do not know if NewGRFs can do funky stuff before terrain gen :P
18:52:45  <frosch123> but in general, adding these dependencies is a sign there is something wrong :p
18:53:04  <glx> they should not influence terrain generation IIRC
18:53:07  <TrueBrain> well, NewGRFs that have absolute and relative snow-line-height, that is what is wrong :D :D
18:53:12  <TrueBrain> if it was either one, there wasn't any issue
18:53:29  <frosch123> i disagree :)
18:53:32  <TrueBrain> or if I could smell the intention :P
18:53:41  <frosch123> the problem is that that stuff is done at loading
18:53:46  <TrueBrain> I am sure you find more things wrong :D But that is the only thing I run into :P
18:53:53  <TrueBrain> yeah .. I was afraid you would say that :)
18:53:56  <frosch123> the intention is just that you need a "unit" for heightlevels
18:54:00  <TrueBrain> I only see the surface .. plenty scary for me :D
18:54:17  <frosch123> what is heightlevel 17? is it high altitute, or is it not?
18:54:35  <TrueBrain> and that is what I am trying to indicate: 2 GRFs at least have different opinions about what it means :P
18:54:45  <frosch123> the only intention of exposing max-height to newgrf is to give them a chance to know what the hell "height level 17" means
18:55:32  <frosch123> so, anyway, max-height does not need to be accurate. if you have an upper estimate, that is not as bad as 255, it's also fine :p
18:55:59  <TrueBrain> it is a hack on yet another hack
18:56:01  <TrueBrain> that is my only issue with it
18:56:14  <TrueBrain> so I wanted to pass it by you first, see if you have another solution that is .. less dirty :D
18:56:22  <frosch123> it's not a hack. you are just obsessing about snow line
18:56:35  <TrueBrain> wow, don't point the finger at me now :'(
18:57:02  <TrueBrain> I cannot help that other people are being really: BUT IT SHOULD WORK LIKE THIS OR I WILL MAKE A FORUM POST ABOUT IT :P
18:57:45  <frosch123> well, i am sure i stated the intention of max-height at least 3 times by now. no idea how to do better
18:58:03  <TrueBrain> but that is exactly what I am trying to say :) It is your intentions .. but some GRFs took it differently :P
18:58:08  <TrueBrain> and I am fine if we say: fuck those guys
18:58:30  <TrueBrain> as we know by now .. give people some room, and they find a way to do what-ever niche they can come up with
18:58:41  <frosch123> you told me about ogfx+landscape, but i do not see how that would break
18:58:54  <TrueBrain> it doesn't if I estimate the height
18:58:58  <TrueBrain> and I have to overestimate it
18:59:15  <TrueBrain> the reason I consider it a hack, is that it is done really early in the process, hooks into TGP and the old gen to get a value out of it
18:59:18  <frosch123> all ogfx+landscape does is scale the snowline by max-height, and then ottd scales it back
18:59:20  <TrueBrain> just to make snowline happy :P
18:59:24  <TrueBrain> feels .. the wrong approach
18:59:28  <TrueBrain> but I don't know any better
18:59:34  <frosch123> it does not matter what value max-height has at that point
18:59:44  <frosch123> there were rounding issues before, there will be the same afterwards
19:00:05  <TrueBrain> as max-height needs to be set crazy early, basically
19:01:30  <TrueBrain> ideal there would be a NewGRF callback like "worldgen done", where it could act on that kind of information
19:01:43  <TrueBrain> but I guess that would be very hard to implement at this stage of NewGRFs
19:06:06  <TrueBrain> I really do not know enough about NewGRF to have any sense of what is right and wrong, it is funny :D
19:06:56  <frosch123> you have this type of chicken-egg problems with all kinds of add-ons
19:07:37  <TrueBrain> yup
19:07:51  <frosch123> there were plenty of them at by old work-place, and there was certainly no newgrf there :p
19:08:15  <TrueBrain> most addons systems I designed over the years are multi-staged
19:08:18  <TrueBrain> which mitigate most of these problems
19:08:25  <TrueBrain> just .. people are always scared shitless to add a stage
19:08:32  <TrueBrain> so they still manage to get themselves in this trouble :P
19:08:42  <TrueBrain> which always makes me giggle
19:08:45  <frosch123> newgrf are also multi-staged :p
19:09:50  <frosch123> actually, ttdp did some of those stages in main menu
19:09:53  <TrueBrain> I really want to read up on it, but people keep distracting me with other non-sense
19:10:18  <frosch123> it's just ottd which does them all at once
19:10:57  <TrueBrain> now .. where do I set this height level before any NewGRF does anything .. hmmmmmm ... finding the right place in this codebase is a challenge sometimes :D
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19:13:42  <TrueBrain> did this max height level stuff change how original map generator works? Or is it always < 16, basically?
19:14:37  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] rexxars updated pull request #195: Add: Ground sprite constants for  partially cleared tiles
19:14:59  <frosch123> i think the latter, but probably noone cared either way
19:15:23  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] rexxars commented on pull request #195: Add: Ground sprite constants for  partially cleared tiles
19:16:09  <TrueBrain> hmm .. early estimation will be off a lot when sea level is very high
19:16:13  <TrueBrain> but .. can't fix them all
19:16:26  <andythenorth>  multi-staged?
19:19:58  <TrueBrain> ugh, generating big maps on debug builds is no fun
19:20:02  <frosch123> andythenorth: 1. decide which grf will be active; 2. decide which cargo/rail/road/tram types are known; 3. decide which industries/houses/vehicles are known
19:21:36  <supermop_Home> andythenorth i really like the new chips tiles
19:22:53  <TrueBrain> wauw, big maps are spot-on the % coverage for arctic
19:22:55  <TrueBrain> that is scary
19:23:13  <TrueBrain> I made a map with 40% snow .. it really feels like more
19:23:17  <TrueBrain> but math doesn't lie?
19:24:13  <TrueBrain> owh, lalala, I am a fucking idiot
19:24:17  <TrueBrain> I still had a NewGRF loaded
19:24:18  <TrueBrain> lol
19:24:20  <frosch123> i guess the measurement precision is defined by the amount of void tiles :)
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19:25:02  <TrueBrain> damn, alpinist maps look ugly as fuck
19:25:12  <TrueBrain> they are exactly as advertised, but brrr
19:25:22  <TrueBrain> well, don't play 1kx1k
19:29:17  <andythenorth> supermop_Home me too :)
19:29:20  <andythenorth> and I hate everything I make
19:30:09  <andythenorth> frosch123 oh like an initialisation pipeline
19:31:09  <TrueBrain> okay, so all that is left is a "Custom" option for Terrain Type
19:31:52  <supermop_Home> i need to update docklands to match
19:32:28  <supermop_Home> trying to resist the temptation to redraw the ogfx RAIL station to be more York-like
19:42:00  <TrueBrain> owh, next issue .. eeeeuuuuhhh .. loading heightmaps ...
19:42:08  <TrueBrain> to what should they scale when "auto"? :D
19:42:46  <frosch123> keep the setting in the mapgen window for them, and disallow "auto"
19:42:59  <TrueBrain> the Play Heightmap has no window
19:43:12  <frosch123> sure it does
19:43:22  <TrueBrain> not on my screen
19:43:42  <frosch123> you set number of industries, towns, ... all mapgen stuff that is not altitude
19:44:04  <TrueBrain>
19:44:05  <TrueBrain> is all I get
19:44:24  <frosch123> now select one, and press load
19:44:37  <TrueBrain> crashes, as it has no max height :D
19:45:20  <supermop_Home> andythenorth red area maybe could be opaque?
19:45:25  <TrueBrain> okay, it is suppose to give a window first
19:45:35  <TrueBrain> right, did not know that
19:45:37  <frosch123> TrueBrain: <- second window from left
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19:46:40  <TrueBrain> frosch123: got it, tnx :)
19:47:49  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] frosch123 commented on issue #166: [sr_RS] Translator access request
19:48:00  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] frosch123 commented on issue #167: [hr_HR] Translator access request
19:48:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] frosch123 commented on issue #168: [ja_JP] Translator access request
19:48:15  <supermop_Home> it seems a little off to be that the tiny mullions on the rail roof are CC, but the big arch structure is grey
19:48:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] frosch123 commented on issue #169: [zh_TW] Translator access request
19:49:39  <supermop_Home> also that the vertical bits on the arch are 2px wide, but the arched part is thin
19:49:47  <frosch123> i didn't know there is a for users
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20:18:13  <TrueBrain> damn, this PR will not be a few lines of code
20:18:31  <TrueBrain> but I think I untangled some settings at least
20:19:53  <LordAro> i warned you :p
20:20:22  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SMCA25 opened issue #8890: Panning extremely laggy as of 1.11 beta2
20:21:27  <TrueBrain> <- almost there .. only missing "overwrite TGP max height"
20:21:48  <TrueBrain> now if you load a heightmap, you have some room above the highest mountain
20:21:52  <TrueBrain> instead of it being the limit
20:21:55  <TrueBrain> which is rather nice
20:22:22  <TrueBrain> so many renaming ..
20:22:22  <glx> hmm isn't 1.11-RC1 better on this point ?
20:23:14  <LordAro> only in that it has a way to disable opengl
20:23:58  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8890: Panning extremely laggy as of 1.11 beta2
20:24:01  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #8890: Panning extremely laggy as of 1.11 beta2
20:36:51  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SMCA25 commented on issue #8790: Slowdowns when scrolling with OpenGL video drivers with AMD graphics cards
20:41:31  <LordAro> TrueBrain: do you think it might be worth publishing builds for #8876?
20:41:38  <LordAro> would be helpful to get some testing
20:41:41  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] supermop opened pull request #63: Revised infra06.png with embellished Monorail and Maglev roof sprites
20:41:41  <TrueBrain> link?
20:41:44  <TrueBrain> (Sorry, really lazy)
20:41:48  <LordAro>
20:41:50  <LordAro> :p
20:42:02  <TrueBrain> sure, build them ! :D
20:42:35  <LordAro> i was thinking for the CI ;)
20:42:45  <TrueBrain> yeah, you can start that too :P
20:42:46  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on issue #8790: Slowdowns when scrolling with OpenGL video drivers with AMD graphics cards
20:42:48  <TrueBrain> will show you in a bit when I am death
20:42:51  <TrueBrain> (in DOTA)
20:43:48  <TrueBrain> death? dead ...
20:44:20  <michi_cc> You don't want to become Death? :D
20:46:15  <TrueBrain> LordAro: <- click Run workflow, and follow the breadcrumbs
20:47:29  <supermop_Home> i think i did my pr wrong
20:49:41  * LordAro presses buttons
20:52:49  <TrueBrain> nice :D
20:54:15  <TrueBrain> well, it is that simple LordAro :D it will publish under
20:54:32  <TrueBrain> well, nicer URL:
20:54:36  <TrueBrain> with the correct PR, ofc
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21:03:20  <LordAro> supermop_Home: github makes it very difficult to diffs in graphics (i'm sure it used to be better?), but other than the commit message being "wrong", looks fine
21:19:19  <TrueBrain> LordAro: binary is cooked
21:19:54  <TrueBrain> well, website needs to update now :D
21:26:03  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] frosch123 approved pull request #195: Add: Ground sprite constants for  partially cleared tiles
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21:41:09  <TrueBrain> LordAro:
21:41:10  <TrueBrain> there :D
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22:10:47  <TrueBrain> generating maps with 254 height are fun
22:10:49  <TrueBrain> not reachable
22:10:50  <TrueBrain> but fun
22:10:57  <TrueBrain> one big slope
22:10:59  <TrueBrain> I want to snowboard now
22:11:36  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
22:14:18  * andythenorth will be excited by super exciting maps
22:14:33  <TrueBrain> on Discord an example :P
22:15:16  <andythenorth> 'the pyramid'
22:19:56  <supermop_Home> sounds like a log flume wonderland
22:26:33  <TrueBrain> right ... its done .. time to PR this
22:26:36  <TrueBrain> that will be interesting
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22:32:37  <andythenorth> so excite
22:33:36  <andythenorth> I can lay flowers on the grave of this finally
22:34:24  <supermop_Home> hell yeah
22:39:32  <supermop_Home> hm if you search 'kx roof' from the us, you get 0 trainstation pictures
22:46:53  * andythenorth sleep
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22:57:40  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8790: Slowdowns when scrolling with OpenGL video drivers with AMD graphics cards
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23:11:25  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8891: Fix heights
23:11:33  <TrueBrain> boem
23:11:42  <supermop_Home> ooh
23:11:55  <TrueBrain> took me only .. what .. 30+ minutes to write the description of that PR?
23:12:01  <TrueBrain> and I forget the subject
23:12:02  <TrueBrain> NICE
23:12:09  <glx> always the hardest part
23:12:45  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8891: Introduce snow/desert-coverage and custom terrain type, and move "maximum map height" to settings only
23:12:52  <TrueBrain> there
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23:12:57  <TrueBrain> enjoy the review
23:13:19  <TrueBrain> 4 features in 1 PR
23:13:30  <TrueBrain> I could split this in 2 or 3 PRs, but ... really, they should all go in at once :)
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23:19:45  <TrueBrain> the complexity of testing this is insane .. I tried a lot of settings .. we will see how others can break it :D
23:20:12  <TrueBrain> 0 warnings \o/
23:20:29  <supermop_Home> looks like it will take forever to test every possible configuration
23:20:43  <supermop_Home> but good work on writing out an informative post!
23:20:49  <TrueBrain> it is the reason it took me ~6 hours longer than I expected :P
23:21:02  <TrueBrain> tnx :) Hopefully it helps future-us in case this ever comes up again
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23:21:18  <supermop_Home> i'm sure some bad-faith actors will still complain here and there
23:21:23  <supermop_Home> but it makes sense to me
23:21:38  <TrueBrain> it feels really good, the snow coverage etc
23:21:44  <TrueBrain> lot less icky
23:21:51  <supermop_Home> i could try to draw snow coast in the next 6 days but no gurantee
23:21:58  <supermop_Home> yes
23:22:47  <supermop_Home> i think some warning about settings that might make a lot of sheer / unbuildable mountain slopes would be good, but idk how you'd test for that
23:23:13  <TrueBrain> snow coast would be a separate change
23:23:17  <TrueBrain> that is not going to happen for 1.11
23:23:19  <TrueBrain> so there is no rush
23:23:56  <supermop_Home> like a 32 ht mountain on a 64x64 map is easy to warn, but a unbuildable mountain range in the middle of an otherwise flat 4kx4k map probably still looks flat?
23:24:31  <TrueBrain> yeah, I only want to warn about the easy stuff
23:24:45  <TrueBrain> all the other stuff, also things like a preview, need a huge change to how terrain is generated
23:24:50  <TrueBrain> it became such a mess
23:25:01  <supermop_Home> i really appreciate the "heightmap height"
23:25:34  <TrueBrain> I am happy :D
23:26:14  <LordAro> TrueBrain: nice work
23:26:28  <TrueBrain> tnx :)
23:26:54  <LordAro> have you tagged it preview yet? :p
23:27:01  <TrueBrain> it is building :)
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23:33:15  <TrueBrain>
23:33:19  <TrueBrain> go test now plz yes yes? :D
23:41:13  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 commented on pull request #8880: Feature: Press ctrl to build diagonal rivers in Scenario Editor
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23:54:48  <supermop_Home> 40% snow coverage .. its less that 40 but seems like a reasonably close amt
23:56:15  <supermop_Home> map looks about like what i'd expect
23:56:52  <TrueBrain> the bigger the map, the better the estimation :D
23:58:32  <TrueBrain> 90% sea + 40% snow are cool maps :)
23:59:56  <supermop_Home> 256x256, custom height 100

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