Log for #openttd on 15th April 2021:
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02:27:06  <supermop_Home_> hmm in Detroit there is an island called zug island
02:27:42  <supermop_Home_> which appears to be just a big rail yard and coal depot
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05:44:07  <peter1138> milek7, MTU is only an issue for UDP. TCP should be treated as a continuous stream.
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09:26:29  <peter1138> Quiet today?
09:28:19  <Timberwolf> Mmm.
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09:34:56  <TrueBrain> when I add an include to a file, I get errors that are too weird to understand ... wth
09:36:15  <TrueBrain> owh .. there is the typo
09:36:19  <TrueBrain> GCC errors are still the worst :P
09:36:29  <peter1138> :)
09:36:47  <peter1138> Urgh, okay, RGB recolours are a blitter-invading hack...
09:37:02  <peter1138> When I first wrote this, there was only place that needed it.
09:44:29  <peter1138>  Is there any way to filter serverlist to show only servers that have same game version?
09:44:44  <peter1138> Question on Discord... I guess that would actually be sensible in your update...
09:45:00  <TrueBrain> yeah .. I have some more drastic plans for the Network GUI when we get to redoing that GUI :P
09:45:05  <TrueBrain> but not on my list for STUN PR atm :)
09:45:09  <TrueBrain> scoping ... is difficult :P
09:45:29  <peter1138> BUNDLE IT ALL TOGETHER! Oh, this patch is too big to review now...
09:46:11  <TrueBrain> :D Exactly
09:46:16  <TrueBrain> hmm .. how do I right-align text ..
09:46:26  <LordAro> add spaces
09:46:51  <TrueBrain> owh, I had a minimum size set, that is not needed
09:46:52  <peter1138> Professional MS Word user there..
09:46:54  <TrueBrain> that makes it right-aligned too :D
09:47:17  <TrueBrain> seriously, how easily stuff crashes when you work with the widget system is just frustrating
09:59:32  <peter1138> I've seem been getting frustrated by how GUI sprites were/are aligned.
09:59:35  <peter1138> ...
09:59:37  <peter1138> STILL
10:03:47  <peter1138> Realistic braking, hmm.
10:03:53  <peter1138> Big quotes around realistic, of course.
10:05:35  <LordAro> """'''"'`Realistic`'"'''"""
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10:08:48  <TrueBrain>
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10:09:00  <TrueBrain> that took .. surprisingly long to make
10:09:04  <TrueBrain> but okay, a start
10:24:58  <TrueBrain> so now I have to learn how we draw in a matrix .. eeeuuuuhhhhhhh
10:29:53  <TrueBrain> well, it is called a MATRIX, but basically it is just a panel with some scrolling ability :P
10:29:59  <TrueBrain> I was hoping for a bit more support to draw in a matrix :D
10:36:09  <peter1138> Yes. I had/have plans to update that.
10:36:15  <peter1138> But maybe.
10:37:03  <peter1138> Every window with a matrix has its own slightly different way of finding the first item, and then iterating...
10:40:54  <TrueBrain> yeah ... hard to find one I can copy from :)
10:50:07  <peter1138> Hmm, what's the best way to get a remote desktop on Linux, from Windows?
10:51:01  <glx> CLI or X ?
10:54:57  <glx> but windows includes a RDP client
11:03:03  <peter1138> Desktop, yes.
11:03:11  <peter1138> CLI is obvious :-)
11:09:11  <peter1138> xrdp seems like it would be the right thing. I can log in, but it's just a teal background and nothing else. Sigh.
11:41:33  <EER> I've used xming with putty x forwarding in the past, not very ideal but worked fine for my use case of running a graphical oracle installer on a headless server ;-)
11:42:40  <EER> putty x forwarding = ssh x forwarding of course
11:46:18  <peter1138> Ew, Oracle :/
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11:47:56  <LordAro> graphical linux installers make me sad
11:48:07  <LordAro> especially when it's just an interface over tar
12:49:35  <TrueBrain>
12:49:37  <TrueBrain> now players ....
12:57:20  <milek7> peter1138: well maybe it should, but now it applies to all Packets
13:01:28  <Timberwolf> The days when you needed an existing Linux installation so you could build the x86 config to be able to actually see what the graphical installer was trying to output...
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13:30:39  <TrueBrain> meh, buttons on the Multiplayer GUI look messy as fuck
13:30:41  <TrueBrain> I don't like it
13:30:46  <TrueBrain> owh well, better than what we have
13:31:19  <LordAro> incremental improvement is better than no improvement!
13:33:02  <TrueBrain> exactly
13:33:37  <TrueBrain> so I spend 4 hours on making the GUI .. now I need to wire the buttons ..
13:33:44  <TrueBrain> ugh .. making GUIs is fucked up annoying :P
13:37:38  <glx> imagine how it was before the rewrite
13:37:53  <glx> but it's still annoying
13:38:25  <TrueBrain> as I cannot use any widget and I have to draw everything myself, it feels like nothing much has changed :P
13:38:38  <TrueBrain> I now even have to track myself if a button is clicked or not .. :(
13:39:01  <glx> why can't you use widgets ?
13:39:15  <TrueBrain> it is a matrix with in it buttons per line
13:39:21  <TrueBrain> couldn't find anywhere that does the same :P
13:40:14  <TrueBrain> I think I could use NWidgetFunction, but there are not many uses of that
13:40:16  <TrueBrain> so hard to tell
13:40:29  <glx> so you draw all buttons manually ?
13:40:40  <TrueBrain> well, drawing buttons is easy, just a few lines of code
13:40:45  <TrueBrain> the interactions with them is what worries me :D
13:41:26  <glx> I think you can programmatically add real buttons
13:41:38  <TrueBrain> yeah, with NWidgetFunction .. next on my list to try
13:41:55  <glx> will be easier to handle clicks
13:42:04  <TrueBrain> I just need to encode the widget-id
13:42:21  <TrueBrain> normally it is only used for 0 .. COMPANY_MAX
13:42:23  <glx> fixed id and extra data
13:42:28  <TrueBrain> but now I also have 0 .. CLIENT_MAX :P
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13:57:33  <orudge> Looks like GOG want us to be on there too
13:58:26  <glx> yeah another rich presence API ;)
13:59:08  <TrueBrain> orudge: why do you say that?
14:01:03  <orudge> TrueBrain: see info@
14:02:06  <TrueBrain> that is pretty nice
14:02:21  <TrueBrain> well, for sure it is worth doing honestly
14:02:30  <orudge> No idea what their SDK licensing is like, but they do make a point of offering DRM-free games (historically at least, I've not used GOG in years)
14:02:31  <TrueBrain> I just haven't looked into it at all what is possible etc
14:02:33  <orudge> Yeah
14:03:05  <TrueBrain> so yeah, lets look into this :)
14:03:13  <orudge> Also, random data point, TT-Forums traffic this month so far seems to be currently matching last month's total traffic
14:03:19  <orudge> How's the bandwidth usage on AWS?
14:04:14  <TrueBrain> slow decreasing to "normal"
14:04:40  <orudge> OK
14:05:10  <TrueBrain> still over twice as much as last month :P
14:06:33  * Rubidium ponders making a "better" NoCAB ;)
14:06:45  <TrueBrain> what is stopping you? :D
14:06:50  <LordAro> Rubidium: NoNoCAB already exists :)
14:08:17  <Rubidium> recent AI writing experience
14:11:00  <TrueBrain> okay, finally got the NWidgetFunction to work in a way that is usable to me ..
14:11:19  <TrueBrain> now only .. can it rebuild on-the-fly
14:11:21  <TrueBrain> or only on opening
14:11:55  <TrueBrain> seems to be the latter
14:12:28  <TrueBrain> done with it for today :P
14:12:39  <Timberwolf> NoNoNoCAB? Followed by CABNoLimit?
14:13:30  <TrueBrain> GOG wants assets in PSD
14:13:32  <TrueBrain> eeeuuuuhhhhhhhh
14:16:53  <LordAro> "do you accept svg?"
14:17:41  <Rubidium> sorry, I only have Photoshop 1 files, are those good enough?
14:18:04  <TrueBrain> orudge: seems the first step for GOG is to fill in that agreement to get a developer account, if I read this correctly
14:18:34  <orudge> TrueBrain: right
14:22:12  <TrueBrain> otherwise it seems a lot the same to Steam
14:22:17  <TrueBrain> so just a matter of going through the motions
14:22:22  <TrueBrain> can be automated too
14:22:38  <orudge> I can enquire further if desired, make sure they're aware that we are a free GPL game etc (don't know if they have any other GPL games on there)
14:22:42  <TrueBrain> "One of the main features of games available on is that they are provided DRM-free." <- start of their SDK page :P
14:22:48  <orudge> Yes
14:23:08  <orudge> Doesn't necessarily mean we can link to the SDK though, directly at least :)
14:23:18  <TrueBrain> no, but it made me laugh :)
14:24:55  <TrueBrain> can't find what the license of the SDK is :P
14:25:01  <TrueBrain> not mentioned somewhere obvious
14:25:04  <orudge> Mm
14:27:40  <TrueBrain> so yeah, if you can send them a mail back orudge , that would be cool :)
14:27:41  <Rubidium> yay, my "better" NoCab only needs 1/60th of the time of the original NoCab. That's progress!
14:27:44  <orudge> TrueBrain: Will do
14:27:48  <TrueBrain> cheers
14:31:50  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on issue #7513: Squirrel can stack overflow when GCing deep structures, leading to crash
14:32:23  <glx> wow it's an old one
14:36:23  <Rubidium> now to figure out how to actually solve the issue in an elegant manner
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14:41:58  <TrueBrain> glx: don't know if you have other suggestions, but it seems the widget system doesn't really like dynamic adding/removing things :D
14:42:25  <TrueBrain> so either I have to prerender (but hide) 255 clients per company
14:42:31  <TrueBrain> or I have to do buttons the hard-way :P
14:42:52  <FLHerne> Rubidium: Is it 1/60th of the time because the game crashes before it can use the rest? :p
14:47:15  <Rubidium> well, it primarily triggers #7513 way faster. That it's only 1/60th of the time is mostly due to me having to navigate the main menu, load screen and unpausing the game, and probably the game not being in fast forward mode
14:48:48  <Rubidium> otherwise, it would probably only take two or three seconds until the next GC is triggered. And probably that could be triggered more often, making it even quicker to trigger. Though the main benefit is that you do not need a huge map and then run it for ~40 minutes to trigger it
14:51:39  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #7513: Squirrel can stack overflow when GCing deep structures, leading to crash
15:16:55  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] orudge opened pull request #205: Add: Section in Contact page relating to OpenTTD Distribution Ltd
15:18:12  <peter1138> There are windows that dynamically create buttons, but it's done when the window is crated.
15:18:15  <peter1138> *created
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15:43:24  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain approved pull request #205: Add: Section in Contact page relating to OpenTTD Distribution Ltd
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16:07:35  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] orudge commented on pull request #205: Add: Section in Contact page relating to OpenTTD Distribution Ltd
16:07:41  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] orudge merged pull request #205: Add: Section in Contact page relating to OpenTTD Distribution Ltd
16:16:35  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] orudge created new tag: 1.4.26
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16:54:51  <frosch123> TrueBrain: if you add individual widgets for 255 clients, you won't get scrollbars, and a very tall window :p
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16:55:35  <frosch123> to get scrollbars you could try NWID_MATRIX
16:55:46  <frosch123> i never used it though, so no idea what it really does
16:56:19  <andythenorth> yo
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16:56:43  <frosch123> <- also, how many forums do you need :p
16:58:21  <frosch123> now i wonder why the ms store has no forums
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17:05:13  <Wolf01> MSStore has discussion groups... or had
17:06:49  <otetede> andythenorth: at
17:06:52  <otetede> there are 2 links under the words:
17:07:01  <otetede> "Instructions"
17:07:07  <otetede> and
17:07:14  <otetede> "NewGRF settings window".
17:07:22  <otetede> The first should probably be
17:07:29  <otetede> content
17:07:34  <otetede> and second
17:07:42  <otetede>
17:08:10  <andythenorth> oh yeah the wiki broke :)
17:08:11  <andythenorth> GG
17:08:44  <andythenorth> thanks
17:09:04  <andythenorth> I should put a link checker on
17:09:32  <Beerbelott> Any pro wishing to teach a noob? If so, why is the last commit breaking the game?
17:11:02  <nielsm> what does "breaking" mean here? crash? misbehaves?
17:11:22  <Beerbelott> The compiled code crashed, yeah
17:11:36  <Beerbelott> it seems fine with the previous-to-last commit
17:11:40  <andythenorth> oof maybe AWS just rate limited me for looking like an attack
17:12:01  <andythenorth> my link checker has 'unbounded' requests mode, and can run 41 threads
17:12:57  <nielsm> this is the cause:
17:13:10  <nielsm> the IConsoleCmd objects are allocated with malloc instead of operator new
17:13:25  <Beerbelott> segmentation fault;
17:13:26  <nielsm> (and deleted with free instead of delete)
17:13:59  <Beerbelott> Mmmh
17:14:00  <nielsm> by putting a std::string member into the type you made it non-POD ("plain old data") and then the type must be allocated by the proper C++ way
17:14:32  <Beerbelott> I tried to be conservative in my change, but the inclusion of C++ types means the whole structure allocation needs to change too?
17:14:40  <Beerbelott> OK yeah you just repleid
17:14:43  <nielsm> also line 280
17:15:43  <nielsm> you can literally just change line 244 and 240 to use "new IConsoleCmd;" and "new IConsoleAlias;" instead of "MallocT<IConsoleCmd>(1);"
17:16:53  <nielsm> the console command system seems extremely weird overall... like why is it a linked list but there is also a std::vector of all the commands anyway
17:18:58  <andythenorth> slow link checking is slow
17:19:06  <andythenorth> y slow link chekcur?
17:19:26  <peter1138> How fast do console commands need to be?
17:21:17  <nielsm> I'm sure they are performance critical for 5000 fps
17:21:30  <peter1138> Okay is my company still alive
17:21:44  <peter1138> Playing a server with Pikka & Skiddles, old times... larks...
17:22:13  <Beerbelott> nielsm I already changed the list to a vector in the previous commit. I do not have a global understanding so far, and I am taking baby steps to try to unserstand how things work. I am not even sure I'll produce anything useful... and don't even start with the performance of said code ;)
17:22:41  <andythenorth> peter1138 any castles?
17:23:07  <andythenorth> hmm how do I MP?
17:23:09  <andythenorth> there's some button?
17:24:07  <peter1138> andythenorth, step 1 discord step 2 "nemoder" server in the server list somewhere
17:24:43  <andythenorth> such missing content
17:24:46  * andythenorth fixes
17:30:05  <glx> Beerbelott: I use a set to handle sorting automatically
17:31:29  <Beerbelott> Oooh nice. Yup, there is a standard structure for every need (:
17:31:32  <glx> (and should also fix the "leak" as it uses explicit constructors and destructors)
17:32:01  <Beerbelott> But I see you are still using char*
17:32:18  <glx> yup didn't really try to move to string yet
17:34:50  <Beerbelott> You stil lgot problems in &
17:35:12  <Beerbelott> I was working on that but the string conversion ate my time
17:35:37  <Beerbelott> Gimme 15 mins so I can try an ugly way to fix it
17:35:37  <glx> no it's ok, it's freed in the destructor
17:35:43  <Beerbelott> It is?
17:36:06  <Beerbelott> Oh, right
17:36:56  <Beerbelott> Well, going full steam on string in the name can free us of that, right? The nightmare will move on to the "how to avoid copying string objects" part ;)
17:37:32  <glx> yes strings auto manage memory
17:43:39  <peter1138> Yeah, I could perhaps do something with the chat history strings, I guess.
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17:50:06  <spnda> ahh... love waking up at nearly 8pm
17:52:25  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
17:52:26  <DorpsGek>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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17:56:22  <peter1138> AS IF
18:06:23  <Beerbelott> glx:
18:12:02  <TrueBrain> frosch123: nah; you set the line-height, so that doesn't really happen :)
18:12:48  <TrueBrain> but yeah, custom drawing everything seems a lot easier .. the Widget system is not made for dynamic amount of elements :D
18:14:03  <TrueBrain> just makes handling clicks difficult .. but that is about it
18:19:56  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 opened pull request #9040: Issue 7513
18:33:44  <andythenorth> I love how in depot
18:33:50  <andythenorth> adding a 0.4 train to a 3.6 train
18:33:53  <andythenorth> gets me a 3.9 train
18:36:53  <peter1138> Uh...
18:37:55  <andythenorth> rounding
18:38:13  <andythenorth> I don't normally see it because Horse is OCD about vehicle lengths
18:38:45  <frosch123> andythenorth: remember, 29 is the compromise between 32 and 22.6
18:38:54  <andythenorth> :)
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18:51:07  <TrueBrain> frosch123: <- users asking the right questions! :D
18:56:54  <peter1138> Hmm
18:57:15  <frosch123> TrueBrain: you trained them well :)
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19:07:15  <glx> Rubidium: missing "override" everywhere ;)
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19:39:50  <glx> Beerbelott: you can use range for, and remove useless next fields
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21:31:27  <Timberwolf> I keep forgetting newgrf has no "native" understanding of single-sided platorms, it's all just a hack based on layouts.
21:32:14  <andythenorth> :o
21:32:19  <andythenorth> :)
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22:00:23  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #9041: Change: Improve layout and spacing of vehicle group widgets.
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22:01:47  <peter1138> Pictures, you say?
22:02:08  *** tokai has quit IRC
22:02:34  <LordAro> peter1138: scre- aw
22:04:47  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #9041: Change: Improve layout and spacing of vehicle group widgets.
22:05:50  <peter1138> Actually as the main issue was the random removal of 2 rows from the group list, the SetFill could probably go back on the buttons and not look so weird.
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22:07:32  <peter1138> And allowing fill on a matrix is just not workable.
22:07:57  <peter1138> It should be, but isn't :)
22:08:41  <peter1138> Everything about it assumes whole numbers.
22:11:11  <peter1138> Hmm now perhaps to tackle the Multiplayer window.
22:11:19  <peter1138> Not sure it's worth it.
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22:20:06  <TrueBrain> Owh, those icons were not suppose to look so odd?
22:20:10  <TrueBrain> Lol
22:20:30  <TrueBrain> Always found them odd looking :D
22:23:23  <peter1138> Hah
22:26:49  <Beerbelott> glx "range for"?
22:28:31  <peter1138>
22:29:57  <Beerbelott> OK, but what for?
22:30:46  <peter1138> for (auto it = _chatmsg_list.begin(); it != _chatmsg_list.end(); it++)
22:30:47  <peter1138> ->
22:30:57  <peter1138> for (auto &cmsg : _chatmsg_list)
22:31:30  <peter1138> There's probably more to it, but it's nice bit of short-hand.
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22:53:44  <peter1138> _dp_, found it.
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23:00:19  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #9042: Fix: Sizing of Multiplayer server list incorrect when GUI zoom doesn't match Font zoom.
23:00:47  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #9042: Fix: Sizing of Multiplayer server list incorrect when GUI zoom doesn't match Font zoom.
23:01:26  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #9042: Fix: Sizing of Multiplayer server list incorrect when GUI zoom doesn't match Font zoom.
23:02:21  <peter1138> As it's just a one-liner, worth doing...
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23:26:13  <milek7> huh, why it catches segfault and continues running..
23:26:14  <milek7> on linux
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