Log for #openttd on 18th April 2021:
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00:52:33  <Gustavo6046> I have two parallel one-way tracks in opposite ways, as is recommended for proper OpenTTD railway construction methodology.
00:52:47  <Gustavo6046> What if I want to build a station in the *middle*?
00:54:50  <supermop_Home> just build the station?
00:55:54  <Gustavo6046> well, how can I connect it with said tracks, such that it remains connected, whilst at the same time still allowing train passthrough?
00:55:56  <Gustavo6046> tunnels?
00:56:03  <Gustavo6046> wait
00:56:05  <Gustavo6046> I think I can try that
00:57:23  <Gustavo6046> or, nah
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01:03:35  <supermop_Home> here are a few typical ways:
01:03:36  <supermop_Home>
01:05:33  <supermop_Home> basically, if you've been to a local train station that is bypassed by expressed trains, most of the track layouts you may have seen there will more or less work in the game
01:06:39  <supermop_Home> I typically use 1 or 4 most of the time
01:06:44  <Gustavo6046> well
01:06:48  <Gustavo6046> by that time I already thought of a way
01:07:39  <Gustavo6046> how's this?
01:07:56  <supermop_Home> with a little timetabling, 1 will work in most situations, and when it really doesn't you may as well move up to 4 tracks
01:08:38  <supermop_Home> that's generally fine
01:08:51  <Gustavo6046> and, I see
01:08:53  <supermop_Home> thats essentially option '3'
01:09:18  <supermop_Home> but with 2  platforms, handy when you want trains to be able to terminate and turn back
01:09:26  <Gustavo6046> mhm
01:09:32  <Gustavo6046> that's why the depots are there
01:09:40  <supermop_Home> that sharp turn coming out of the tunnel will kill your trains' speed
01:09:58  <Gustavo6046> (although I hadn't really thought of that part when I first put them, but when it hit me, I instantly added those connections between the depots and the side/express(?) lines!)
01:10:00  <Gustavo6046> :p
01:10:03  <Gustavo6046> true
01:10:10  <Gustavo6046> I could extend it so it crosses then comes back in a gentler turn
01:10:44  <Gustavo6046> like this
01:17:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd merge it earlier to the outside, to avoid a short S curve in the "straight" track
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01:18:23  <Eddi|zuHause> the track that enters from the top, pull it straight on another tile, and then directly merge it downwards
01:18:34  <Eddi|zuHause> instead of pulling it back across
01:19:24  <Gustavo6046> ah
01:19:37  <Gustavo6046> yeah I don't even need that curve in the 'straight' track
01:20:08  <Eddi|zuHause> you could also extend the tunnel, although that usually causes issues with signal distances
01:20:51  <Gustavo6046>
01:20:53  <Gustavo6046> hm
01:20:56  <Gustavo6046> ??
01:20:57  <Gustavo6046> (ops)
01:21:07  <Gustavo6046> hm? *    is this better?
01:21:13  <Gustavo6046> or, what you meant
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03:09:18  <Gustavo6046> Can towns grow through road-rail crossings?
03:09:33  <Gustavo6046> They can't make them themselves, right?
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03:47:47  <supermop_Home> its a setting
03:48:08  <supermop_Home> if the crossing is already there they will grow
03:48:20  <supermop_Home> if not they will try to build a bridge
03:48:34  <supermop_Home> if you enable them to build level crossings then they can
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06:38:36  <andythenorth> yo
06:46:25  <Rubidium> good morning
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06:52:59  <andythenorth> oof rebasing a FIRS branch from last year
06:53:05  <andythenorth> and I've blacked all the src meanwhile as well
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07:01:53  * andythenorth much mergetool :)
07:03:23  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #9049: Prepare for 1.11.1 release
07:05:19  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #9049: Prepare for 1.11.1 release
07:06:24  <peter1138> There's a couple more backport requested
07:07:22  <LordAro> oh yes
07:07:35  <LordAro> well, just #9050, right?
07:07:47  <LordAro> i did the other 2
07:08:10  <peter1138> I think so, I ... didn't count properly.
07:09:06  <peter1138> Beautiful sunny morning. It's 2 degrees...
07:09:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #9049: Prepare for 1.11.1 release
07:09:24  <Heiki> hovercraft stream is broken
07:09:31  <LordAro> peter1138: a great man once said "get on your bikes and ride"
07:09:39  <peter1138> Good idea.
07:09:56  <LordAro> gonna warm up quite quickly anyway
07:10:00  <LordAro> (here at least)
07:10:42  * peter1138 listens to Queen as suggested.
07:11:38  <LordAro> lol
07:12:16  <peter1138> I'll see if it warms a bit. I also have backache so riding in the cold with that is unappealing.
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07:20:29  <andythenorth> queen you say?
07:20:43  * andythenorth turns off toto
07:24:24  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac updated pull request #9043: Feature: bridges over bridges (WIP)
07:33:11  * peter1138 ponders installer a compiler on his pi
07:38:00  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac updated pull request #9043: Feature: bridges over bridges (WIP)
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07:57:18  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #9049: Prepare for 1.11.1 release
08:00:57  <nielsm> OpenTTD 1.11.1: This is The one
08:03:18  <peter1138> < Breaking the mold that readme.
08:03:49  <peter1138> Most readmes just say how to build, nothing about what it actually is at all, really winds me up.
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08:06:57  <TrueBrain> peter1138: that is because there is nothing to build, only to configure :P Which is documtend :D
08:07:07  <TrueBrain> not disagreeing btw :)
08:07:08  <Rubidium> but... I was expecting 1.11.11 at 11-11 on 11:11+1
08:07:44  <peter1138> Rubidium, 7 months away, still time...
08:07:50  <TrueBrain> peter1138: :)
08:07:57  <TrueBrain> also, 111 :D
08:08:10  <peter1138> Oh jesus no.
08:08:19  <peter1138> I really like it, do not change it please.
08:09:14  <TrueBrain> and this shows that in any language it can be hard to track what the subject was, in this case of "really winds me up" .. :D
08:09:21  <nielsm> what it is, how to install it, basic usage, those are good subjects for a readme, with detailed installation, configuration,  and usage in separate filesadaptation
08:09:34  <nielsm> wow that ended up broken thanks keyboard
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08:10:49  <peter1138> TrueBrain, when I stumble on a project that could be a solution, but the only documentation is how to build it, THAT winds me up!
08:11:02  <TrueBrain> peter1138: yeah, sorry, totally misread what you meant there :D
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08:11:04  <peter1138> Nothing about what it does, how to use it, what it can't do...
08:11:22  <TrueBrain> what I mostly don't like about this README, is that it is very windy
08:11:35  <TrueBrain> but that is a visual issue, honestly
08:11:38  <nielsm> sure the details about syntax can be moved somewhere else
08:11:51  <nielsm> but a basic back-of-box feature list is good
08:19:11  <andythenorth> TrueWiki for newgrf spec?
08:20:20  <peter1138> My $job-1 had an ancient mediawiki install. Wonder how many exploits that had in it...
08:21:06  <peter1138> andythenorth, make it so!
08:22:37  * andythenorth making FIRS so currently
08:22:51  <andythenorth> not so TrueWiki
08:22:54  <andythenorth> just more FIRS
08:32:47  * andythenorth tanks
08:32:59  <andythenorth> players with 'winner', 'sniper', 'pro' in their nickname
08:33:22  <andythenorth> you think their WR is higher or lower than average? :)
08:36:47  <peter1138> Gosh it's now a heady 6 degrees.
08:37:31  <peter1138> I need a bigger monitor to fiddle with quad size GUI, 2560x1440 isn't quite enough.
08:41:09  <peter1138> Oddly the volume sliders are scaled by font size, not gui size.
08:43:50  <andythenorth> GG
08:53:45  <peter1138> And they break when I scale GUI. Hmm.
08:55:37  <Rubidium> is that since the backported change in 1.11.1, or is it unrelated?
08:58:38  <peter1138> Just in my branch dealing with GUI scale :)
08:59:15  <peter1138> It means that window is using a different way to set sizes which works fine currently.
09:02:29  <peter1138> Actually I will test master anyway. Might be wrong there.
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09:06:10  <peter1138> It's very wonky in master but doesn't disappear like in my branch, so not "broken" as such.
09:16:06  <peter1138> Oh, I think I know why.
09:16:29  <peter1138> I missed out the next patch in the series :p
09:18:21  <peter1138> So it rescaled base on SetMinimalSize(x, 0) and ignored the SetMinimalTextLines(1, ...)
09:19:12  <peter1138> Scales properly now, although the face it is based on font-size is a bit weird.
09:21:07  <peter1138> Scaled by pixel size in the settings window. Also some now unnecessary manual scaling.
09:28:34  <peter1138> Oof, that is odd.
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09:40:39  <_dp_> can someone may be quickly spot a cause of the desync here?
09:41:19  <_dp_> unfortunately it's 5 minutes of gameplay between saves so a lot of random noise
09:42:28  <peter1138> Is there a parser for this data?
09:43:03  <peter1138> Actually is this savegame comparison?
09:43:22  <peter1138> Cos you need the commands to know, right?
09:43:27  <_dp_> yeah, that's a diff between server save and a previous save advanced with command log
09:44:13  <_dp_> so it should match if there was no desync
09:45:56  <peter1138> Where are the commands?
09:46:42  <_dp_>
09:47:01  <peter1138> Comparing two saves can only tell you that they are different, not why.
09:47:44  <_dp_> well, there are usually some clues
09:47:52  <_dp_> I found a lot of desyncs that way already
09:48:54  <_dp_> hm... I just spotted something  weird in that command log...
09:49:50  <peter1138> I have seen a couple of desyncs on my own server, but it's always been from the same IP, so... "hmm"
09:50:26  <_dp_> was it yesterday?
09:50:58  <peter1138> No, couple of weeks ago.
09:52:23  <_dp_> probably unrelated then
09:52:56  <_dp_> but this one looks pretty suspicious unless I messed up command mapping
09:53:05  <_dp_> because there are GIVE_MONEY and MONEY_CHEAT commands
09:53:56  <_dp_> yeah, defenitely wrong mapping, nvm
09:54:09  <peter1138> Blame it anyway :D
09:55:45  <andythenorth> goes it connect GS and grf?
09:55:47  <andythenorth> oh wait, we can't
09:55:55  <peter1138> How?
09:56:03  <andythenorth> because players won't know which ones to download
09:56:17  <peter1138> NewGRF dependencies?
09:56:23  <andythenorth> something something
09:56:28  <peter1138> Does WWT_EMPTY auto-scale?
09:56:33  <andythenorth> I might just cheat and make a house set
09:56:38  <andythenorth> that reads the town register
09:56:50  <peter1138> Seems it does.
09:56:52  <andythenorth> the only advantage of GS is that it can display text in the town window
09:58:33  * andythenorth out loud thinking without context
09:58:43  <_dp_>
09:58:48  <_dp_> with the right command name
09:58:49  <peter1138> s/auto-scale/default to SetFill(1, 1)/
09:59:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #9049: Prepare for 1.11.1 release
09:59:26  <andythenorth> goes it houses in FIRS?
09:59:30  <andythenorth> hmm
09:59:30  <peter1138> andythenorth, I mean, I have literally no how you can connect them together. (Not that you can't)
10:00:02  <andythenorth> [emoji]
10:00:07  <peter1138> _dp_, where does the random seed become different?
10:00:18  <_dp_> no idea unfortunately
10:00:27  <_dp_> I don't have seeds from the server
10:00:54  <_dp_> should definitely save them in the future
10:01:36  <_dp_> this is just some logging I quickly made with admin port and it doesn't get random seeds
10:02:03  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9049: Prepare for 1.11.1 release
10:02:28  <_dp_> can definitely improve it a lot not that I realized I don't need saves from clients
10:02:38  <_dp_> *now
10:03:13  <peter1138> Load the last network save and replay?
10:03:33  <_dp_> yep
10:04:09  <_dp_> well, I don't have network saves but any save will do
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10:05:42  <peter1138> TrueBrain, be interesting to see how quick the servers adapt, what with Steam auto-updating by default.
10:06:27  <TrueBrain> absolutely
10:06:56  <_dp_> well, proper dedicated servers likely don't use steam
10:07:22  <peter1138> Yes but the users do.
10:07:54  <peter1138> That servers don't and mat need to adapt quicker was my point.
10:07:56  <_dp_> right, I should start stutting down 1.10.0 ones
10:07:57  <peter1138> *may
10:08:54  <peter1138> You can of course run a dedicated server on Linux via Steam, however it doesn't auto-update anyway, so still needs attention.
10:09:15  <peter1138> TrueBrain, automatic server update and "no-restart" run-time patching when? :D
10:09:30  <TrueBrain> when your insanity reached peek? :D
10:09:30  <_dp_> lol
10:09:41  <peter1138> Wasn't there a whole company formed around updating bits of the Linux kernel without having to reboot?
10:10:03  <peter1138> And don't most people just go for "spread everything around so it doesn't matter if a bit goes down" these days anyway...
10:10:36  <TrueBrain> take, if I want to upgrade, I scale up first, and scale down the old machines after
10:10:41  <TrueBrain> lot safer in many ways :)
10:10:47  <peter1138> Yeah
10:11:24  <TrueBrain> this 100% uptime "thing" we left like 10 years ago
10:11:27  <peter1138> So multiple horizontal SetFills on the same row can cause... oddities.
10:11:33  <peter1138> Yes
10:11:35  <TrueBrain> I remember the days it was cool to show your uptime graph, and reaching 1000 days was like: WOW
10:11:40  <_dp_> but can you update db in that way?
10:11:55  <michi_cc> Server send CMD_UPDATE_CODE to all connected clients and causes simultaneous runtime update :P
10:12:04  <peter1138> _dp_, yes.
10:12:14  <TrueBrain> michi_cc: wtf is wrong with you :P
10:12:16  <peter1138> _dp_, obviously you need to design your infrastructure for it.
10:13:26  <peter1138> Hmm, actually as the original code forced the size, SetFill(0, 0) should end up the same.
10:13:29  <michi_cc> TrueBrain: All blockchain signed of course, we don't want the top server to be "get your bitcoin miner here" :)
10:13:40  <_dp_> CMD_UPDATE_WINDOWS, everyone updates their windows at the same time to keep it fair :p
10:16:35  <peter1138> How should orudge's OS2 WARP port handle updating the OS? Hmm...
10:17:05  <Rubidium> OS/2 Warp is effectively Windows as well, isn't it? Just a really old one/fork
10:17:28  <_dp_> just show a sad face while everyone updates :p
10:19:20  <peter1138> There was a RISC OS port at one point.
10:20:39  <peter1138> Built before the Raspberry Pi was a thing.
10:34:37  <_dp_> was that thing that adds more desync checks merged from jgrpp?
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10:47:31  <peter1138> Annoying part of rescaling all minimum sizes is some of them are pre-scaled.
11:46:11  <andythenorth> hmm
11:46:34  <peter1138> And then when you try to sort that out you find other oddities :p
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11:53:40  <andythenorth> goes it (1) exclude some industries from the map count that figures out whether to build more industries (2) a callback to try and force industries of type X into every town
11:56:49  <peter1138> Is there an industry-type distribution system? Or is it just equally priority?
11:59:31  <andythenorth> there are weighted probabilities
11:59:37  <andythenorth> with random component
12:00:46  <andythenorth> the amount OpenTTD tries to build is 'fixed' (also scaled by map size)
12:01:15  <andythenorth> which is ok, until I try and force industries into every town
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12:17:47  <andythenorth> (1) is probably just a single bit in existing flags?
12:18:09  <andythenorth> probably industry_cmd.cpp counts industries somewhere to decide when to build a new one
12:27:21  <andythenorth> it's nice that industry_cmd.cpp contains all the original industries :)
12:27:22  <andythenorth> cute
12:29:38  <andythenorth> TryBuildNewIndustry looks like the place where the magic happens?
12:32:02  <andythenorth> maybe I can just set the probability to max for certain industries
12:33:14  <andythenorth> hmm, big map, that won't force type into every town
12:35:01  <andythenorth> hmm I might be not seeing it
12:35:07  <andythenorth> but where's the map size scalar for target_count?
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13:02:51  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg opened issue #9051: Cities build irrational bridges: right on the shore, along the lake, next to each other
13:06:22  <peter1138> Pretty sure there was a bridge length limit for towns building across water.
13:08:18  <andythenorth> can't see one specific to towns in openttd.cfg
13:08:22  <andythenorth> just the max bridge length
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13:09:36  <LordAro> it got changed to be population-based in 1.11
13:09:43  <LordAro> could probably do with some tweaking
13:09:49  <LordAro> also hi
13:14:56  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on pull request #9043: Feature: bridges over bridges (WIP)
13:15:22  <peter1138> Hmm, better but not perfick
13:16:25  <peter1138> Maybe the 1 pixel rating should become 2 pixels...
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13:25:06  <peter1138> Ok, not gonna use the posh garmin, flat battery...
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14:16:00  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #9051: Cities build irrational bridges: right on the shore, along the lake, next to each other
14:16:15  <nielsm> I'd like some feedback on those thoughts ^^
14:20:17  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone commented on pull request #9049: Prepare for 1.11.1 release
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14:32:34  <LordAro> nielsm: intriguing idea, might work quite well
14:34:33  <nielsm> it will obviously require a bunch of tuning
14:35:01  <nielsm> how budget scales with town size and what all the various things cost
14:35:53  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on issue #9051: Cities build irrational bridges: right on the shore, along the lake, next to each other
14:36:12  <nielsm> also perhaps shorten the delay until next expansion cycle when one fails, so you don't sit waiting 600 days to build a bridge over a rail
14:40:58  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #9051: Cities build irrational bridges: right on the shore, along the lake, next to each other
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14:48:13  <Beerbelott> Hello! A lot of non-freed memory comes from the ICU library. The question is: is it a defect from that library or could this be the main program badly driving it? Cf.
14:48:39  <glx> let's blame ICU, easier ;)
14:49:08  <glx> also we rely on unsupported part of ICU
14:49:22  <nielsm> well maybe various caches (hinted by trace) are not released by us
14:50:15  <nielsm> regardless it's not something I would worry about if it's at most one object per language pack and it doesn't increase by changing language while running
14:52:11  <glx> yeah as long it's not growing during game run it should be ok
14:55:12  <michi_cc> nielsm: Town Tax Simulator?
14:55:58  <nielsm> michi_cc yeah pretty much I guess, make the towns have a roughly estimated level of economic activity
14:56:59  <glx> servicing has an effect on town growth, having an effect to the grow budget makes sense
14:57:02  <michi_cc> So well served town and industries would mean higher taxes and big splurges :)
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15:18:02  <Beerbelott> nielsm: I see "src/strings.cpp:1802:	_current_collator.reset(icu::Collator::createInstance(icu::Locale(_current_language->isocode), status));
15:18:02  <Beerbelott> "
15:18:17  <Beerbelott> The rest of the trace is internal to the lib
15:19:14  <Beerbelott> Does this mean some calls need to be made at the end of the program to ensure ICU releases its own data allocated through malloc?
15:19:54  <nielsm> the OS will free all allocated memory when the process exits, no need to waste time calling free() on things that are only allocated once
15:20:39  <Beerbelott> nielsm: I'd precisely clal that best practices. Even if it is an understood and kept under control memory leak, it is a memory leak still :)
15:20:45  <Beerbelott> call*
15:20:46  <andythenorth> nielsm I have subscribed to your newsletter
15:21:22  <andythenorth> I have some overlapping ideas for FIRS
15:21:31  <andythenorth> TL;DR delivering town cargos is bland
15:21:56  <andythenorth> I can write from industries to town registers, which other entities can read
15:22:18  <andythenorth> my intent is to provide some dimensions of 'satisfaction' or 'expandability' to the town
15:22:46  <andythenorth> house sets could use these to control expansion - out (more buildings) - or up (bigger buildings)
15:23:06  <supermop_Home_> +1\
15:23:17  <andythenorth> but FIRS could also read these for an optional mode idea I have, where industries have random chance of permanent production increase, beyond supplies
15:23:30  <andythenorth> a satisfied town could be a factor in industry production increase
15:24:13  <andythenorth> the thing that (mostly) has worked in FIRS is directly influencing industry production via supplies or combinatorial deliveries
15:24:52  <andythenorth> I would like to (1) offer control of town growth more directly (2) have more dimensions of 'growth' than just 'bigger'
15:25:00  <andythenorth> [newsletter ends]
15:25:34  <andythenorth> cc also: town bridges only if a builders yard is supplied with input :P
15:27:08  <nielsm> how about doing a "regions light" thing, where each town can also reference a "regional capital" that just happens to be the closest City?
15:27:12  <nielsm> and industries can too
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15:27:58  <nielsm> that could let the BSPI idea of power plants required to supply factories with power be a bit more flexible so a power plant can supply an entire "region"
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15:29:53  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 opened pull request #9052: Packet encapsulation
15:42:26  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on issue #9051: Cities build irrational bridges: right on the shore, along the lake, next to each other
15:52:17  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #9051: Cities build irrational bridges: right on the shore, along the lake, next to each other
16:02:13  <andythenorth> it would be useful to be able to agglomerate towns yes
16:02:27  <andythenorth> I think I can test a _lot_ of my ideas without any spec extension
16:02:33  <andythenorth> but some things will be limited
16:02:42  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on issue #9051: Cities build irrational bridges: right on the shore, along the lake, next to each other
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16:16:03  <andythenorth> lol that loop unroll I wrote, we could have had an iterator cb that yields consist IDs sequentially from front or rear, with a continue / break CB result
16:16:12  <andythenorth> might have been less mad
16:16:16  * andythenorth did it anyway
16:17:05  <andythenorth> also I think I can force an industry into every town using considerable evil, by setting probability of all other industry types to probability 0 until the condition is met
16:17:11  <andythenorth> might be pathological for map gen
16:23:07  <Beerbelott> This I don't get: The waterfall of the source static variable shows every instianciated object up to the call to icu::BreakIterator::createCharacterInstance has a destructor, which seems to take care of the object deallocation. Why is this memory lealing?
16:23:25  <Beerbelott> leaking*
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16:28:10  <Rubidium> Beerbelott: depends on your definition of leaking. If it is, not deallocated when the application closes then it leaks, if it is not reachable when the application closes then it does not leak
16:28:53  <Beerbelott> Rubidium: The trace says "still reachable"
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16:29:28  <Rubidium> yes, I know... so under the first definition of me it leaks, under the second definition it is not leaking
16:30:33  <Rubidium> but it sounds like the application does not bother to reset the console when shutting down. The question is also, why should it? It only makes shutting down take more time
16:30:38  <Beerbelott> I see one static variable followed by 2 objects allocation beforethe call to the library. Destructors are there, taking care of freeing dynamically allocated parts of said objects... THe only way this can leak is if some dynamically allocated members are replaced without the old value being unallocated, by I see so sign of that
16:32:01  <Beerbelott> ALl this is driven by a static variable. I suspect the expected behaviour is for destructors to be called when statis variabels are cleared
16:33:12  <Rubidium> I'm sorry, but do you know what "still reachable" means in the output of valgrind?
16:35:26  <Beerbelott> Found something, might explain:
16:35:39  <Beerbelott> still reachable = still allocated
16:35:44  <Beerbelott> no?
16:36:03  <nielsm> it means there are still valid pointers in the program that point to the memory
16:36:13  <glx> it's not loast
16:36:13  <nielsm> meaning the program would be capable of freeing the memory
16:36:17  <glx> *lost
16:36:39  <nielsm> unlike a non-reachable allocation, where there is an allocation that the program does not have any pointers to, and such would not be able to free
16:36:53  <Rubidium> Beerbelott: take a look at instead, that might be more informative
16:37:19  <nielsm> the latter is definitely a leak, the former can just be an allocation that is made once at the start of the program and left alone to let the OS clean it up
16:39:18  <nielsm> a memory leak is unbounded increase in allocations without cleaning up, where the amount of allocations is increasing more the longer the program runs
16:39:34  <nielsm> an allocation done once at startup and never repeated is not really a leak IMO
16:40:07  <Beerbelott> Rubidium: Yup, thx. CHeck also my link, explaining how the C++ cruft behaves beyond the program space
16:40:14  <Beerbelott> THat's probably it.
16:41:16  <Rubidium> "still reachable" is memory that a pedant would free before closing the application, but others might also consider writing code to achieve that pointless because once the application is closed all allocated memory of the application will be returned to the operating syetem.
16:41:32  <Beerbelott> --show-leak-kinds shall be invoked w/o reachable to avoid this C++ nightmare
16:52:09  <Rubidium> most of that nightmare they are talking about is decades old, and for what it's worth an awful lot is suppressed automatically by valgrind in the standard libraries, so it might even "leak" much more if you disable the suppressions
17:04:39  <peter1138> IIRC you need to be careful on Amiga...
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17:38:34  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac updated pull request #9043: Feature: bridges over bridges (WIP)
17:39:52  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #9052: Packet encapsulation
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17:48:15  <didac> Hi all, I am trying to understand why the regression tests fail for, any idea? plz discussion about the PR itself aside.
17:49:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
17:49:14  <DorpsGek>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
17:50:18  <Rubidium> didac: maybe '1: + Loading your savegame caused OpenTTD to crash.'
17:50:26  <glx> didac: you modified savegame format ?
17:51:31  <didac> I've added a new item  to the SaveLoadVersion enum since the PR introduces a change that is not backwards compatible
17:51:50  <didac> well meaning older versions won't support it
17:52:09  <glx> you may need to add conversion code
17:55:08  <peter1138> What about parallel bridges above each other? ;)
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18:06:46  <peter1138> Slip coaches when?
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18:21:13  <didac> Parallel bridges above each other is a different story, harder to achieve with the current tile information is represented, based on my research, but never is impossible, one step at a time,
18:29:14  <didac> I meant nothing is impossible :)
18:30:18  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac updated pull request #9043: Feature: bridges over bridges (WIP)
18:33:02  <didac> I am also getting this when building on MSVC2019. 19>16 : + Internal error : Loader for 'lzma' is not available.' 19>17: -     7 => 0 19>17 : + Internal error : Loader for 'zlib' is not available.'
18:34:20  <nielsm>
18:34:35  <nielsm> you need liblzma and lzo and zlib
18:35:11  <LordAro> thoughts on including #8908 in 1.11.1 ?
18:35:52  <nielsm> I'm not against it
18:36:43  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 opened pull request #9053: Change: merge duplicate logic to scroll in lists by key into a single location
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18:41:25  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #9053: Change: merge duplicate logic to scroll in lists by key into a single location
18:41:46  <didac> I already had lzo and zlib installed, but recently the build doesn't find them
18:43:42  <didac> I'll try rerunning cmake again ÑD
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18:44:35  <peter1138> Ha... oh
18:45:08  <Rubidium> I knew it peter1138, you have a patch for that somewhere
18:46:49  <peter1138> I was going to ask if he'd told cmake where vcpkg lives...
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18:49:12  <peter1138> Windows Magnifier is absolutely useless when you have 3 screens of different resolutions...
18:51:09  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #9053: Change: merge duplicate logic to scroll in lists by key into a single location
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18:58:22  <andythenorth> slip coaches = shunting, at speed?
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19:01:14  <Rubidium> that sounds quite dangerous
19:07:39  <peter1138> Basically. Disconnecting local carriages from an express train...
19:08:46  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] erenes updated pull request #88: Change: Follow redirect convention for login also for developer flow
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19:24:45  <andythenorth> mmmm regional capitals :)
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19:30:23  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] erenes updated pull request #88: Change: Follow redirect convention for login also for developer flow
19:31:02  <peter1138> Hmm, what's the widest cargo abbreviation...
19:31:36  <peter1138> Scaling width by font-height seems a bad idea.
19:31:56  <andythenorth> cargo abbreviations - the 2 char ones?
19:32:00  <peter1138> Scaling it by zoom level doesn't account for variations in font size.
19:32:02  <peter1138> Yes.
19:32:12  <peter1138> WD is quite wide.
19:32:28  <andythenorth> probably MM or WW?
19:32:49  <peter1138> I did max-width * 2.
19:33:22  <Rubidium> maybe WR or SW or DM from the default ones
19:33:42  <peter1138> But it's wider than than standard (not that really matters) but also varies in width depending on the cargos in play, which is a bit odd.
19:35:03  <EER> 2*width(M) to keep it consistent?
19:35:28  <andythenorth> I ran out of sensible abbreviations in some cases :P
19:35:35  <andythenorth> 4 chars anyone?
19:35:49  <peter1138> andythenorth, I doubt there's any hard limit on it.
19:35:59  <andythenorth> frosch said there wasn't
19:36:13  <Artea> IRCO
19:36:36  <Artea> OIRC
19:36:39  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe opened pull request #9054: Doc: Dedicated server dependencies
19:36:46  <peter1138> I guess it doesn't matter if it varies. It's not going to vary within a game.
19:38:11  <frosch123> andythenorth: there is this guy who adds text filters to all windows, maybe they find a way to add better cargo filters, which do not need 64 two-letter buttons :p
19:39:18  <frosch123> personally, i only need one hand to count the amount of times i ever filtered the station list
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19:43:59  <EER> I just learned you can apparently filter the station list, I guess people play in different ways :)
19:45:06  <frosch123> to my knowledge, the only use of the station list is to sort it by amount of cargo waiting, and check the overflowing ones to add more trains
19:45:14  <peter1138> I just learned the station list exists...
19:45:19  <frosch123> the cargo icons can help you to see which cargos are overflowing, but filtering, meh :p
19:45:47  <frosch123> maybe if you had pax stations, you could remove them from the list, to check on the more interesting cargo stations
19:46:14  <peter1138> It guess it's a bit crowded with some of the more complex sets.
19:49:22  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #9049: Prepare for 1.11.1 release
19:49:25  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #9049: Prepare for 1.11.1 release
19:56:48  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] erenes commented on pull request #20: Support developer authentication flow in bananas-cli
19:56:51  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] erenes closed pull request #20: Support developer authentication flow in bananas-cli
19:58:47  <andythenorth> maybe :)
19:58:58  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #9049: Prepare for 1.11.1 release
19:59:09  <andythenorth> I never use that station list :)
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20:02:02  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] unbeatable-101 opened issue #9055: Game Crashed
20:03:07  <andythenorth> so if there could be regional capitals
20:03:13  <andythenorth> there could be a capital of the map
20:03:30  <andythenorth> which would give newgrf industry a cheap route to global storage
20:07:15  <peter1138> That stacktrace looks odd.
20:07:23  <LordAro> osx stacktraces always do
20:07:45  <peter1138> SaveHeightmapConfirmationCallback?
20:08:52  <peter1138> That straight onto Blitter_32bppOptimized::EncodeInternal...
20:09:02  <glx> yeah osx stacktrace is almost useless
20:09:23  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #9055: Game Crashed
20:09:40  <LordAro> JGR, do you have anything useful that fixes osx stacktraces?
20:09:46  <LordAro> i know you're watching :p
20:10:25  <LordAro> or maybe i should just raise an issue...
20:12:32  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] unbeatable-101 commented on issue #9055: Game Crashed
20:13:35  <LordAro> crash.sav seems fine
20:16:02  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #9055: Game Crashed
20:16:20  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] unbeatable-101 commented on issue #9055: Game Crashed
20:16:30  <LordAro> the corruption in the authority window would suggest a video driver issue, i suppose?
20:16:38  <glx> hard to fix without knowing what's wrong
20:17:38  <glx> yeah maybe video driver
20:17:54  <glx> and maybe already fixed
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20:23:04  <LordAro> not really anything in the 1.11.1 list that would likely fix any crashes like that, afaict
20:23:52  <peter1138> Possibly the mouse cursor fix.
20:24:12  <LordAro> that should've only had an effect when the setting was changed, i would've thought?
20:24:19  <peter1138> Wild speculation...
20:25:03  <JGR> LordAro, there's this, but that might be a bit too much for trunk
20:25:23  <glx> haha
20:26:03  <LordAro> mm, maybe...
20:26:55  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on issue #9055: Game Crashed
20:27:49  <glx> isn't hardware acceleration a fake setting for OSX ?
20:28:16  <michi_cc> No, it's not. It just not on be default for OSX.
20:28:31  <glx> ok
20:28:36  <LordAro> even so, shouldn't be crashing :p
20:28:54  <michi_cc> OSX specifically defaults to off in contrast to all other platforms.
20:29:20  <LordAro> that distinction isn't clear :p
20:29:23  <peter1138> Apparently you can use backtrace() / backtrace_symbols() since OS X 10.5, which is what crashlog_unix uses, but not crashlog_osx...
20:29:41  <LordAro> people will just see "ooh, hardware acceleration" and click the button
20:30:05  <LordAro> peter1138: sounds like it's worth a try
20:30:15  <LordAro> needs someone with an actual mac to test it with though :p
20:30:22  <LordAro> and probably not going to make 1.11.1
20:30:29  <LordAro> (anyone going to approve the PR?)
20:30:50  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #9049: Prepare for 1.11.1 release
20:30:54  <LordAro> :)
20:31:09  <peter1138> 		/* As backtrace() is only implemented in 10.5 or later,
20:31:10  <peter1138> 		 * we're rolling our own here. Mostly based on
20:31:25  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #9049: Prepare for 1.11.1 release
20:31:27  <peter1138> So does OpenTTD build on pre-10.5 these days?
20:31:31  <LordAro> no
20:32:15  <nielsm> 10.9 should theoretically work
20:32:23  <nielsm> as the earliest
20:34:31  <peter1138> I have no idea what the timeline is for OS X :-)
20:35:30  <michi_cc> Practical limit due to C++17 is 10.9, with selfcompiled compilers and stuff you can probably to 10.7.
20:36:24  <peter1138> Right so supporting below 10.5 with the backtrace probably isn't necessary any more :)
20:40:48  <FLHerne> LordAro: I think the 'cursor' fix might well fix it
20:41:13  <FLHerne> LordAro: It doesn't always crash immediately, in many cases it corrupts the sprite cache in arbitrary ways
20:41:34  <FLHerne> and then stuff either misrenders or crashes later
20:41:46  <LordAro> true
20:41:55  <glx> could be the "zzz" sprite on autosave
20:42:36  <glx> hmm no it's not the start of a month
20:42:55  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro opened pull request #206: Add: 1.11.1 release post
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20:47:30  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #206: Add: 1.11.1 release post
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20:50:18  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #206: Add: 1.11.1 release post
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20:53:32  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] jottyfan opened issue #9056: missing scrollbar on infrastructure window
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20:55:36  <FLHerne> LordAro: fwiw, when I was trying to reproduce 8977 (caused by cursor problem), it crashes immediately about 1/3rd of the time, produces 'corrupt sprite' warnings about 1/3rd of the time, continues apparently normally 1/3rd
20:55:38  <TrueBrain> "Lifetime free licenses (?) 	357,654"
20:55:57  <TrueBrain> "Daily active users 	17,128 	(average, past 7 days) "
20:56:11  <FLHerne> So 2/3rds of the time, the game is carrying on with a sprite cache that's probably screwed up somehow
20:59:50  <JGR> 8977 is not guaranteed to be localised to the sprite cache, other unrelated things which just happen to be adjacent in memory or in time could end up being clobbered
21:04:03  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on pull request #206: Add: 1.11.1 release post
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21:06:34  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain approved pull request #206: Add: 1.11.1 release post
21:06:47  <LordAro> alright, last call for 1.11.1
21:07:44  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #9055: Game Crashed
21:09:04  <glx> crazy list of newgrf for #9056
21:10:49  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro created new tag: 1.11.1
21:11:08  <LordAro> \o/
21:12:25  <LordAro> also cross fingers that the bullseye release works
21:12:33  <LordAro> ...which probably needs a website update?
21:12:44  * LordAro fixes
21:12:53  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] unbeatable-101 commented on issue #9055: Game Crashed
21:15:39  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #206: Add: 1.11.1 release post
21:15:42  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro updated pull request #206: Add: 1.11.1 release post
21:16:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain approved pull request #206: Add: 1.11.1 release post
21:20:01  <nielsm> wonder how big the reaction on steam will be when players discover they can't connect to servers that haven't updated yet
21:20:31  <glx> it's common for most games
21:23:49  <TrueBrain> <- I love the honesty of people :)
21:25:09  <nielsm> I wonder if people know the terms GUI or UI, but don't connect it to the word "Interface" that's used in the game options window
21:25:17  <nielsm> for Interface size
21:25:49  <peter1138> Hurry up MacOS...
21:26:12  <glx> MacOS is 2 full builds
21:26:14  <TrueBrain> yeah, I have some plans for the whole settings/options stuff we have, to make it more intuitive for more players ..
21:26:45  <TrueBrain> we tend to use naming that games haven't used in 10 years
21:26:51  <TrueBrain> so I can understand people not finding everything :)
21:27:16  <TrueBrain> in general it is funny to read how many people are confused by the Game Options vs Settings :D
21:27:45  <glx> hey it used to be Options and Patches IIRC
21:27:51  <TrueBrain> LordAro: you can already merge the website PR btw, to get it to staging
21:27:56  <glx> (not better)
21:28:00  <TrueBrain> saves you a few minnutes when the build is done :)
21:28:11  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro merged pull request #206: Add: 1.11.1 release post
21:30:32  <LordAro> built \o/
21:31:28  <TrueBrain> not sure you know, but I might be repeating myself :D But Steam releases are not done automatically :) They are pushed in the "testing" branch. We have to move it to the "default" branch by hand
21:31:33  <TrueBrain> Steam doesn't allow automating that :D
21:31:54  <TrueBrain> so I will do that after the post on our website is up :)
21:31:55  <LordAro> is the release process wiki page updated? :p
21:32:08  <TrueBrain> dunno .. what was the link again? :P
21:32:18  <LordAro> idk :p
21:32:27  <TrueBrain> but you are doing a release!! Omg!
21:32:46  <TrueBrain> it is so outdated, it is laughable
21:32:53  <TrueBrain> 'run "make regression"'
21:32:55  <TrueBrain> is the second bullet
21:32:59  <LordAro> exactly :p
21:33:39  <TrueBrain> I will update what I know at least
21:33:56  <glx> does it says something about AI/GS API generation ?
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21:35:52  <peter1138> #9056
21:35:55  <peter1138> Step 1) Load every NewGRF possible
21:35:57  <peter1138> Step 2) Wonder why there's too much stuff
21:35:57  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I updated post-release
21:36:19  <peter1138> Special developer step: Regret.
21:37:24  <TrueBrain> LordAro: <- looks a bit weird, but .. "good enough" :)
21:37:32  <TrueBrain> (visually weird)
21:37:52  <LordAro> mm, bit of a blob
21:37:58  <TrueBrain> yeah ..
21:38:34  <nielsm> more bullet points
21:38:49  <TrueBrain> extra enter before "notable" and before "see the" already helps a lot, it seems
21:40:02  <TrueBrain> we need a preview for news posts :P
21:40:44  <TrueBrain> we could use Cloudflare Pages for that, honestly
21:41:18  <TrueBrain> well, my TODO list for OpenTTD is already longer than my arm, so yeah ... let me put this in the "please ignore this TrueBrain" basket
21:42:32  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro opened pull request #207: Change: Improve 1.11.1 formatting
21:42:57  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain approved pull request #207: Change: Improve 1.11.1 formatting
21:46:47  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro merged pull request #207: Change: Improve 1.11.1 formatting
21:54:11  <peter1138> 2 servers, one pw protected.
21:54:35  <LordAro> TrueBrain: good to tag the website?
21:54:54  <LordAro> (and for you to do all the steam/socials things)
21:56:05  <glx> @topic set 1 1.11.0
21:56:05  *** DorpsGek changes topic to "1.11.0 | Website: * (source: github, translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only"
21:56:11  <glx> @topic set 1 1.11.1
21:56:11  *** DorpsGek changes topic to "1.11.1 | Website: * (source: github, translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only"
21:56:40  <glx> my brain copy pasted the original value
21:58:13  <FLHerne> And get orudge to do the MS store again?
21:58:24  <FLHerne> (did MS even accept 1.11.0 yet?)
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21:59:06  <LordAro> yes
21:59:10  <TrueBrain> LordAro: ofc
21:59:15  <FLHerne> peter1138: Should have done a "One NewGRF at a time" limitation like for GS
21:59:23  <TrueBrain> LordAro: and if you can do tt-forums, I will take care of the rest
21:59:27  <FLHerne> It would have saved andy so much angst
21:59:36  <LordAro> TrueBrain: i'd have to log in... :p
21:59:38  <TrueBrain> LordAro: sorry, assumed you would tag after merge :D
21:59:41  <peter1138> Should've made rail type IDs fixed.
21:59:47  <TrueBrain> LordAro: you say that like I wouldn't have?
21:59:52  <peter1138> Replacing would mess up the rest...
21:59:53  <LordAro> TrueBrain: i've no idea what all the backend things are doing
22:00:22  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I think I abstracted that away pretty nicely :D The only "rule" is that you cannot have 2 deployments to either staging or production at the same time
22:00:25  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro created new tag: 1.4.27
22:00:29  <TrueBrain> you can do both staging and production at the same time
22:00:33  <TrueBrain> but not 2 to staging
22:00:43  <TrueBrain> something I still want to fix, but .. effort :P
22:01:34  <TrueBrain> and I do the socials, but anyone with 1password access can do it btw :)
22:02:03  <peter1138> Hmm, I need less towns / industries, I think.
22:02:12  <LordAro> shall i post it as a comment in the 1.11.0 thread, or make a new one?
22:02:31  <TrueBrain> completely up to you; what ever feels right
22:03:36  <TrueBrain> I sometimes wonder if anyone would notice if we don't post on tt-forums
22:03:49  <LordAro> it's not *that* dead
22:03:59  <TrueBrain> never said it was dead
22:04:07  <TrueBrain> just I wonder if anyone would notice if we wouldn't post it
22:04:11  <TrueBrain> they are more .. occupied with other things
22:04:26  <peter1138> patch packs...
22:04:42  <TrueBrain> blaming andy for various of things :P
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22:05:19  <TrueBrain> ugh, now waiting for the post to appear on the website ... otherwise people will bitch about dead links :D
22:05:28  <TrueBrain> HURRY UP BUILDING
22:05:29  <TrueBrain> :P
22:05:51  <LordAro> ...i posted too soon, didn't i?
22:06:03  <TrueBrain> chances of people on tt-forums bitching about dead links is low
22:06:06  <LordAro> HURRY UP BUILDING
22:06:09  <TrueBrain> but if I do that on twitter of Discord ....
22:06:13  <TrueBrain> of = or
22:06:46  <TrueBrain>
22:06:47  <TrueBrain> its there
22:07:09  <LordAro> :)
22:07:41  <TrueBrain> Pushed live on Steam
22:08:40  <peter1138> It's so small you don't even notice Steam updating it...
22:08:58  <peter1138> 5.3MB...
22:09:08  <TrueBrain> twitter and reddit done
22:09:28  <TrueBrain> Discord done
22:09:37  <TrueBrain> cool, tnx for the text LordAro , I am really good in copy/paste :D
22:09:57  <TrueBrain> seems the time to release is bad, as I haven't gotten any response on the tweet yet :P
22:10:01  <TrueBrain> normally people are a lot quicker
22:10:09  <peter1138> Late on Sunday night isn't the best, no.
22:10:16  <peter1138> Friday at about 5pm seems right :)
22:10:40  <TrueBrain> and crazy how fast Steam is in notifying all clients about the update
22:10:41  <TrueBrain> lol
22:10:46  <TrueBrain> it was near-instantly there
22:11:38  <TrueBrain> even on Discord it attracts almost no attention :P Yeah, Sunday night seems like a bad time to get attention :D
22:11:59  <peter1138> Might be some angst from server owners in the morning...
22:13:00  <TrueBrain> people are happy with the Audio options :)
22:13:22  <TrueBrain> like the first thing they mention on Discord .. seems it was long overdue :D
22:13:47  <glx> and volume sliders now have a "real" effect
22:14:02  <glx> more precise
22:14:43  <LordAro> it really was
22:14:59  <LordAro> gj nielsm
22:15:02  <TrueBrain> funny how happy you can make people with these small things :D
22:15:47  <LordAro> users have all sorts of weird priorities
22:15:52  <LordAro> like "usability"
22:16:07  <TrueBrain> and not being blast by insanely loud music on startup
22:16:08  <TrueBrain> really weird
22:16:23  <glx> loud and unstoppable
22:16:32  <glx> unless you start or load a game
22:16:45  <TrueBrain> I was trolling about the download size .. I love discord .. "the entire game was like 13 mb and now we getting a 6mb update??? the devs really don't know how to optimize smh" :D
22:16:50  <TrueBrain> (meant fully sarcastic, ofc)
22:17:15  <LordAro> lol
22:17:26  <LordAro> actually seems a bit small for the binary?
22:17:32  <TrueBrain> compressed
22:17:45  <LordAro> can't compress a binary that much...
22:18:16  <TrueBrain> how much potatos do you want to bet on that?
22:18:23  <TrueBrain> even zip reaches a ratio of 61% :)
22:18:45  <LordAro> fair enough
22:19:03  <TrueBrain> "like, a screenshot I take is bigger than the game which is incredible"
22:19:04  <TrueBrain> :D
22:24:11  <peter1138> Shame my chat history tweak didn't have a backport tag and I didn't notice :)
22:24:24  <glx> oups
22:24:35  <TrueBrain> 1.11.2 when?
22:24:40  <peter1138> I only noticed it not working haha
22:24:52  <TrueBrain> did you label it now? :D
22:24:57  <LordAro> not really a backportable thing
22:25:02  <LordAro> it's a new thing
22:25:08  <peter1138> ^
22:25:15  <TrueBrain> pfft, sneaking in features is our thing!
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22:30:31  <TrueBrain> wtf, people ask how many tiles a 2kx2k map has
22:30:33  <TrueBrain> like, really?
22:30:34  <TrueBrain> :D
22:30:35  <peter1138> General timeout... hmm..
22:30:54  <LordAro> TrueBrain: i mean, technically it's not the answer you'd expect
22:31:13  <TrueBrain> LordAro: very true
22:31:23  <TrueBrain> but they seem to fail in even estimating the value :P
22:31:56  <glx> about 4 followed by 6 zeros, basic math
22:32:09  <TrueBrain> exactly
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22:43:19  <TrueBrain> what I miss, is a place to put what we are working on .. I would like to write down what we are doing with STUN etc
22:43:36  <TrueBrain> but .. tt-forums is not really reaching that much people, and not ones that can have constructive conversations
22:43:40  <TrueBrain> the website is a bit too much ..
22:43:47  <TrueBrain> maybe I should start a "personal" blog
22:43:53  <TrueBrain> or revive the "developers blog"
22:44:28  <LordAro> developer blogpost wouldn't be the worst thing
22:51:33  <TrueBrain> "i can imagine someone crying over finally, after 20+ years, getting volume controls. "
22:51:43  <TrueBrain> I love how much people like this one feature :D
22:54:23  <TrueBrain> right, nobody yelled really loud it is all broken and nothing is working
22:54:33  <TrueBrain> so it seems the release is successful :D Well done all :)
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23:17:55  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #9057: Codechange: Use std::string in console commands/aliases registration, and std::map instead our sorted linked list
23:18:11  <glx> filling PR fields is so hard :)
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23:24:36  <peter1138> :)
23:24:52  <peter1138> Those vehicle group action buttons look so much better now
23:25:12  <peter1138> Oooh, late. night night.
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