Log for #openttd on 20th April 2021:
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00:00:47  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #9068: Fix: Install changes from #8906 includes regression AIs in bundles
00:15:48  <peter1138> Managed to get OpenTTD to run on this shitty laptop by forced performance mode in the switchable graphics. And of course, it works fine...
00:30:43  <glx> so intel driver issue ?
00:48:55  <peter1138> In this case, no, it seems to be an issue loading the correct DLLs when it switches GPUs. But the same error happens when trying to load the Radeon driver updaters...
00:51:00  <peter1138> Yeah, that also works when forced to performance mode.
01:01:59  <peter1138> Hmm, our cargo payment rates are quite a bit better than some, er, other games.
01:13:25  <peter1138> OpenTTD 0.4.5 is right, OpenTTD 1.0.0 is... same as now.
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01:54:20  <peter1138> Nice little diversion.
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02:46:02  <peter1138> Oof. That actually works a lot better than I anticipated.
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04:51:47  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #9005: Game crashes
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06:03:46  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8984: Feature: build vehicle name filter
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07:57:44  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #208: Add: monthly dev post for May 2021
08:00:09  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #208: Add: monthly dev post for May 2021
08:00:52  <TrueBrain> I still do not like posting this as a news post ... meh ...
08:02:19  <Eddi|zuHause> "one of the only ways"... that doesn't feel right
08:03:26  <Rubidium> maybe some "community outreach" page with those blogs, links to developer streams and the likes, and then on the main page a link to that page with an abstract of the most recent one
08:03:46  <TrueBrain> well, mostly I miss a place where people can leave feedback
08:03:54  <TrueBrain> that is why I don't like this static nature
08:05:20  <TrueBrain> the other thing is that it would be nice if I can write this out my own name, as although I appreciate everyone having an opinion about the linguistic matters of the post, it is not really that relevant
08:05:53  <TrueBrain> I am fine with feedback about typos, but style-figures .. that is just an endless debate of preferences
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08:10:37  <LordAro> TrueBrain: factorio blog posts just link to the forum
08:11:39  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that's a good idea. at the beginning and/or end of the blog post have a link to the forum post with the same content
08:12:35  <Eddi|zuHause> all comments can go there, and you don't have multiple places where you have to gather feedback
08:13:46  <TrueBrain> I guess .. it might be my personal distaste for the forums kicking in there :D
08:14:17  <andythenorth> if only there was some kind of discussion tool :P
08:14:38  <EER> How about a sort of place where one could place messages on a board
08:14:43  <TrueBrain> haha, no self-lobbying andythenorth  :P :P
08:14:45  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the problem is, there's too many. it spreads the community too thin
08:15:22  <Eddi|zuHause> everyone has their own preferences, which splits the community, and the splits evolve separately
08:15:45  <TrueBrain> given we have been forcing GitHub accounts on everyone who wants to participate with us lately, I still wonder if Discussions can be a place to do this on .. needs a bit of a different form ..
08:15:50  <TrueBrain> I might experiment with that a bit
08:16:18  <TrueBrain> it also has to do that I miss a place which helps people getting started in coding for OpenTTD
08:16:19  <LordAro> we've been forcing GH accounts on contributors, not standard users
08:16:24  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: wouldn't posting a comment on the website then also require a github account?
08:16:27  <LordAro> forum has always been the place for standard users
08:16:28  <TrueBrain> LordAro: title competition? :D
08:17:01  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: unless you want to enable anonymous comments, which have their own problems
08:17:35  <TrueBrain> LordAro: and remember how much more people we reached by doing it on GitHub vs tt-forums?
08:18:13  <LordAro> hmm
08:18:14  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on pull request #208: Add: monthly dev post for May 2021
08:18:36  <TrueBrain> anyway, the other thing I would like to address, if possible, is to guide new people in a bit more, in what tasks are open
08:18:43  <TrueBrain> sure, people can read issues, but those are often the hard problems
08:18:44  <Eddi|zuHause> forums are for old people?
08:18:52  <TrueBrain> but we have lots of stuff like code refactoring and small ideas
08:18:54  <andythenorth> forums are forums
08:19:01  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: honestly, forums in my experience as past-tense
08:19:09  <TrueBrain> they do no longer really work
08:19:13  <TrueBrain> but that is a personal opinion
08:19:48  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #208: Add: monthly dev post for May 2021
08:20:10  <TrueBrain> LordAro: LOL @ ^^ .. sometimes my brain says 1 word, and my hands type a different :P That is such a funny feeling :D
08:20:11  <TrueBrain> tnx :)
08:23:24  <TrueBrain> thinking about it some more, I kinda also want a place where we can write a bit how we have our developer setup .. MSVC, VSCode, vim, ...
08:24:05  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i see your point. forums are an antiquated piece of technology, and large parts of the community happen on newer technologies. there's no influx of new people into the forums, the only people that are there are people who have been there all along
08:24:26  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: and with a very strong opinion that does not match most of our player-base, in my experience :)
08:24:26  <TrueBrain> yes
08:24:43  <TrueBrain> it is also not really welcoming to new players in that sense
08:24:54  <TrueBrain> if I see how things like Discord do, that is much more fluent
08:25:14  <TrueBrain> always difficult to realise we are the old hats here :P
08:27:44  <Eddi|zuHause> that's the same problem as always. like politicians saying they are the "center" when they don't realize that they are old white males in some corner.
08:28:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not saying there's a solution, btw. :)
08:28:56  <TrueBrain> the title competition was a nice reminder how much things have shifted
08:29:07  <TrueBrain> I mean, the one with the least votes this year had more votes than the winner last year
08:29:25  <Eddi|zuHause> the forums can probably exist in its current state for a decade or two
08:29:55  <TrueBrain> Steam Communities are pretty nice, especially for news post
08:29:58  <TrueBrain> people just reply: cool!
08:30:01  <TrueBrain> and stuff ..
08:30:13  <TrueBrain> it sounds silly, but it does help knowing what we do is liked etc
08:30:23  <Eddi|zuHause> correct
08:30:44  <orudge> TrueBrain: I'm clearly out of touch with "the kids" these days :P
08:30:47  <TrueBrain> <- just read how welcome volume + vsync is .. now look at the feedback on tt-forums :D
08:31:10  <TrueBrain> orudge: so am I :) But I can see there is a discrepancy :)
08:31:58  <Eddi|zuHause> "you changed the default value for <insert random detail>! how dare you ship a game in this state?!?"
08:32:03  <LordAro> hmm
08:32:31  <TrueBrain> yeah, Steam has issues that if you remove a free game it is gone from your library .. I think he refers to that :)
08:33:30  <Eddi|zuHause> he might also mean "let me make gifts to my friends"
08:33:39  <TrueBrain> fair
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08:38:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what disturbs me the most about that post. that he wants to "force" it onto his friends, that he thinks this request doesn't need a longer explanation, or that he thinks there are no other people that would be upset that a previously free game suddenly costs money for no reason
08:39:08  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] James103 commented on pull request #208: Add: monthly dev post for May 2021
08:39:11  <TrueBrain> surprisingly, we have had several posts asking about making it cost money
08:39:35  <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't really surprise me
08:39:50  <TrueBrain> it did surprise me :D
08:40:28  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean that there exist people that are "just take my money" is not surprising
08:40:56  * andythenorth wonders which charities Yogscast support?
08:41:09  <andythenorth> and if we could accept tip-jar 'pay what is fair' for OpenTTD
08:41:18  <andythenorth> then just give it to the Yogscast christmas thing
08:41:44  <andythenorth> maybe I should just go meet Yogscast, there office is opposite mine
08:41:56  <andythenorth> we tried to rent their office I think, before they moved into it
08:42:02  <LordAro> heh
08:42:47  <Eddi|zuHause> finding a correct charity to gift to probably isn't as easy as one might think
08:42:59  <andythenorth> easy
08:43:16  <andythenorth> families of people killed due to large aircraft trying to land on small runways
08:43:32  <andythenorth> also people killed in buses by arbitrary train placement
08:43:38  * andythenorth not in good taste
08:44:14  * andythenorth wonders if we could do a Trolley Problems GS?
08:44:25  <andythenorth> philosophy teaching aid
08:45:32  * andythenorth must to work
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08:55:50  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eric-01 commented on issue #8967: Game crash during startup
08:56:39  <peter1138> Okay, so the main issue with non-integer scaling is the the slider you're using to change the scale also changes scale and moves...
08:56:51  <TrueBrain> LOL
08:56:55  <TrueBrain> interesting issue :D
08:56:58  <LordAro> :D
09:00:21  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eric-01 commented on issue #8967: Game crash during startup
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09:02:39  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8967: Game crash during startup
09:05:11  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eric-01 commented on issue #8967: Game crash during startup
09:05:55  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eric-01 commented on issue #8967: Game crash during startup
09:06:44  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #8967: Game crash during startup
09:06:47  <LordAro> 9800GT is pretty ancient these days
09:07:19  <TrueBrain> ironic that 1.11.0 does work, honestly :)
09:07:55  <LordAro> indeed
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09:08:25  <peter1138> Hmm, so my shitty laptop... let's try making it bootstrap
09:09:02  <Timberwolf> IMO Steam has that nice thing of being a brand new community (albeit with some overlap) and so none of the preconceptions of any of the existing communities.
09:10:41  <peter1138> Nope, not shitty enough to repro this.
09:11:39  <peter1138>
09:12:45  <peter1138> Oh, recorded at half resolution, didn't think to change that. Screen is actually 2560x1440, and it still gets too big ;)
09:13:03  <peter1138> Maybe making the slider 1x to 4x was a little bit excessive.
09:13:58  <Timberwolf> I think the forums suffer from being very quiet, so it's easy for a few sufficiently motivated people to dominate the discussion. Unfortunately the motivation is often, "don't change the game from how it is"
09:14:28  <LordAro> bootstrap also works for me, on suitably modern hardware
09:14:30  <LordAro> just to rule that out
09:14:36  <TrueBrain> like: don't change the network GUI as it is perfect for my usecase .. :D
09:15:28  <LordAro> peter1138: maybe only change on mouse-up :p
09:15:32  <peter1138> LordAro, yes :-)
09:15:36  <LordAro> looks good though
09:15:57  <peter1138> Yes, I am mostly surprised that that is the main issue. I didn't expect the scaling to work anywhere near as well as it does.
09:16:23  <Eddi|zuHause> like: "don't change this default value because i play by some very narrow self-imposed rules and why would anyone else ever play by different rules?"
09:16:51  <Timberwolf> Steam tends to be a lot more, "I don't understand this", "why aren't there in-game prompts and tutorials" and "what's the point in a sandbox that just lets you do what you want?" which is interesting to hear when it's a long time since you were a new player.
09:17:07  <TrueBrain> Timberwolf: yeah, it really shifted my perspective a bit :D
09:17:12  <TrueBrain> as they point out the issues
09:17:24  <TrueBrain> instead of claiming to be "the player" and tell you how to solve a problem never explained
09:17:27  <peter1138> LordAro, also limiting the maximum size would also help.
09:17:27  <Timberwolf> ... and of course, at the time you were a new player that was the norm for games, you found this stuff out reading the manual before it was your turn on the computer :)
09:17:42  <peter1138> I went with 1x to 4x because that matches what we have, but 4x IS ridiculous.
09:17:59  <LordAro> heh
09:18:02  <peter1138> My screen is 2560x1440, so not quite 4k, but still it's overwhelmed.
09:18:14  <peter1138> Ok, not at all 4k.
09:18:16  <LordAro> quite a long way from 4k
09:18:19  <TrueBrain> peter1138: it does look awesome, but I guess that is why Windows etc doesn't give a slider
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09:18:23  <TrueBrain> but a dropdown :D
09:18:23  <orudge> TrueBrain: had a reply from GOG; I can do the paperwork side of things if you're happy to take on board the actual 'work' side? :D (Unless anyone else wants to volunteer?)
09:18:40  <peter1138> TrueBrain, it does for font size! But it needs an apply button :-)
09:18:46  <peter1138> (And sometimes tells you to restart)
09:18:50  <LordAro> Timberwolf: it's funny really, given the huge success of Minecraft which has never (well, until very recently) had any sort of builtin help at all
09:19:28  <LordAro> i spent a good portion of 2012-2015 with several minecraft wiki pages open
09:21:01  <TrueBrain> orudge: I am so hoping someone says: YES!
09:21:07  <TrueBrain> their email really sounds like it is a lot of work ...
09:21:17  <TrueBrain> but I guess we are doing this ..
09:21:25  <peter1138> Also we could do with widget-container scrollbars, where the widgets inside are moved by the widget system. Currently anything with a scrollbar happens to be hand-drawn.
09:21:27  <TrueBrain> it is a completely different onboarding :D
09:21:38  <TrueBrain> peter1138: yes please
09:21:49  <peter1138> And possible change all coordinates to be floating point.
09:21:50  <TrueBrain> but also dynamic widgets would be nice :P
09:21:59  <peter1138> Add/remove on the fly?
09:22:01  <TrueBrain> floating would be nice, as that allows subpixels later on :)
09:22:04  <TrueBrain> peter1138: yes!
09:22:07  <TrueBrain> well, on invalidate
09:22:25  <orudge> TrueBrain: hopefully once it's set up it can be automated
09:22:27  <peter1138> non-integer scaling would always work better with floating.
09:22:36  <TrueBrain> orudge: it can, that was the first thing I checked :D :D
09:22:43  <orudge> TrueBrain: I'll say yes then?
09:22:54  <TrueBrain> orudge: sure, why not
09:22:58  <peter1138> IIRC there are a couple of places that ScaleGUITrad(1) and then multiply that. Which isn't going to work currently.
09:23:18  <TrueBrain> I like how she laughed at your GPL vs DRM question :P She tried to hide it, but she was like: wtf dude :P
09:23:19  <TrueBrain> sorry :D
09:23:23  <TrueBrain> but it is a good sign
09:23:40  <peter1138> ?
09:23:45  <orudge> Well quite, I didn't expect any issues
09:23:46  <peter1138> Oh GOG.
09:23:49  <orudge> or I would hope not :)
09:24:02  <TrueBrain> orudge asked GOG if they allow GPLv2 and assumed it would be as they allow non-DRM games
09:24:10  <TrueBrain> she replied with: I do not see how those 2 are connected, but yes, GPLv2 is fine :P
09:24:24  <TrueBrain> but more in a "wtf are you on about" way :P
09:24:25  <TrueBrain> I like that
09:24:34  <TrueBrain> shows they are human, and are willing to work with us
09:24:54  <peter1138> I see. It's a "yes obviously durr" thing that actually one that IS sensible to check to get absolute confirmation.
09:25:05  <TrueBrain> yup :)
09:25:20  <peter1138> Insert missing words as appropriate. Definitely going senile.
09:25:45  <TrueBrain> and she suggests it only cost them a few dollars a year to host us :P
09:25:52  <TrueBrain> which is insulting!
09:26:00  <TrueBrain> it is at least ten dollar!
09:26:04  <orudge> I wonder how much overlap there'll be between people using Steam and GOG
09:26:12  <orudge> Either way, will be nice to have another distribution avenue
09:26:17  <TrueBrain> I suspect GOG will be like .. 5% of the playerbase?
09:26:34  <TrueBrain> but yes, if it is little effort for us to publish on it, it is nice to do imo
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09:31:22  <peter1138> Anyone selling keys on g2a yet?
09:37:52  <peter1138> LordAro, oof, I have no idea how to handle it on mouse-up.
09:41:20  <TrueBrain> is there a way to hide a widget, or do you always need a NWID_SELECTION for that?
09:41:52  <peter1138> Set the width to 0 seems to be mentioned in the code.
09:42:38  <peter1138> May just be a hack :)
09:42:49  <TrueBrain> I just add a NWID_SELECTION :)
09:42:51  <peter1138> DEBUGBOX has width set to 0 to hide t.
09:45:05  <TrueBrain> so mainly what I need to solve now, is how to show who is the host of the game :D
09:45:10  <TrueBrain> I was thinking about a crown
09:45:15  <TrueBrain> but I realised we don't have that :P
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10:10:30  <orudge> TrueBrain: e-mail asking for various assets, are you OK to take care of that? Hopefully most of the Steam stuff can just be reused :)
10:10:44  <TrueBrain> yeah, just as long as I can do it in non-PSD :P
10:10:57  <orudge> Can't hurt to try
10:11:12  <TrueBrain> as in, I have no way of creating a "layered PSD"
10:12:49  <TrueBrain> lol @ misspelling your name, silly :)
10:15:50  <TrueBrain> so they really want us to send them by email orudge ? Lol .. I expected we had to upload them in the portal
10:15:57  <TrueBrain> but yeah, will do that tomorrow
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10:18:09  <peter1138> I just made a TTF version of the bus glyph. Saved it. Reloaded it. Gone. Stupid software.
10:18:24  <peter1138> Maybe non-integer sprite scaling will be easier :p
10:20:40  <TrueBrain> hmm .. offset of 2147483643
10:20:43  <TrueBrain> no wonder this isn't working :D
10:21:09  <Eddi|zuHause> back in MiniIN the main problems with scaling using neighbouring pixels were that you can't do it on sprite level, because of transparent pixels. and you can't do it on the whole screen because images and text need different methods to look good
10:22:19  <peter1138> Text is easy, just use a scalable font :-)
10:22:47  <Eddi|zuHause> ... which you just said was hard :p
10:23:05  <peter1138> Eh, for text is already there.
10:23:35  <peter1138> Just those glyphs which are special.
10:23:41  <Eddi|zuHause> but incomplete without those glyphs
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10:24:02  <peter1138> Of course originally all the other window sprites were drawn as text glyphs.
10:24:32  <peter1138> Btw, the answer to the question is actually 42.
10:25:01  <peter1138> As in, what multiplayer scales an int8 from 0-127 to 1-4.
10:25:04  <peter1138> ...
10:25:06  <peter1138> multiplier.
10:25:19  <Eddi|zuHause> anyways, i don't think that actually fixes the problem. because you still need to do the image-scaling before the text is put there
10:25:32  <TrueBrain> funny, it is {GRAY} but TC_GREY
10:25:34  <Eddi|zuHause> or the text would bleed into the images
10:25:35  <TrueBrain> that is not annoying at all :D
10:26:07  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, not sure what you're talking about there.
10:26:19  <peter1138> TrueBrain, fix it :)
10:26:30  <peter1138> GREY is, of course, correct.
10:26:57  <peter1138> Unless it's someone's name.
10:27:14  <TrueBrain>
10:27:20  <TrueBrain> I think the white is better than the grey/gray
10:27:40  <TrueBrain> now to fix right alignment
10:27:45  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: let's make a simple example. you have the main viewport, and want to x2 scale it, but only have x1 sprites. and you choose to interpolate the new pixel as average between the 4 neighbouring pixels.
10:28:26  <Eddi|zuHause> the pixel will look different, if one of those 4 neighbouring pixels is overlay text (like town name, station sign, etc.)
10:28:46  <peter1138> tbh, i'm only talking about non-integer scaling for the gui.
10:29:15  <Eddi|zuHause> right, but the gui still has images in it (vehicles, etc.)
10:30:05  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, my rambling is probably not helping
10:38:34  <peter1138> Dunno what you mean, it's fine!
10:38:48  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9067: Feature: rework in-game Network GUI
10:39:33  <LordAro> peter1138: that looks suspiciously like the android ui
10:39:41  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9067: Feature: rework in-game Network GUI
10:40:11  <TrueBrain> I think ^^ is done. At least, I am done with it, but I also think it does what it should do for now :)
10:40:24  <TrueBrain> sadly, preview is not going to help, as you cannot really join a server :P
10:40:31  <peter1138> heh
10:40:56  <peter1138> Hmm, too late for breakfast/elevenses, too early for lunch.
10:41:04  <TrueBrain> I think I did all the scaling correct too :P
10:41:19  <TrueBrain> took me a bit to notice buttons don't scale with GUI scale
10:41:23  <peter1138> Ready for me to break it again?
10:41:27  <TrueBrain> always
10:42:18  <TrueBrain> I love the potential this GUI gives .. but okay, baby steps
10:43:23  <peter1138> I guess I need a clone of the original ScaleGUITrad() that works on the actual sizes of sprites.
10:43:41  <TrueBrain> with this done, means I can put my focus back on what I was doing ... STUN :P Well, lunch first
10:43:48  <TrueBrain> I am not "in between" breakfast and lunch
10:43:52  <TrueBrain> I am well overdue for lunch :P
10:44:11  <peter1138> I might have an early lunch.
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10:44:36  <peter1138> I should go out on the bike, and I think I should at least have some food in me before I do so.
10:44:59  <peter1138> That time I did 45 miles on the MTB with no breakfast was silly.
10:45:23  <peter1138> And also I'd eaten about 5 plates at the all-you-can-eat Chinese the night before.
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12:03:34  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9052: Packet encapsulation
12:17:10  <orudge> TrueBrain: GOG Dev portal login added to 1p
12:18:07  <orudge> Can invite users in the same way as the Steam admin portal too
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12:30:08  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #9052: Packet encapsulation
12:31:02  <orudge> TrueBrain: I shall leave it for you to reply to the newest if that's OK, since you will have a better idea of how long it'll take to get everything sorted than me :)
12:31:27  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #9052: Packet encapsulation
12:33:38  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] mkursadulusoy opened issue #195: [tr_TR] Translator access request
12:40:55  <TrueBrain> orudge: will do
12:45:02  <TrueBrain> orudge: you know what, I will prepare the requested stuff tomorrow and send it to them; easier than to give an estimate today :)
12:49:01  <orudge> OK
13:20:14  <TrueBrain> hmm .. seems other projects on GitHub had a smart idea: a "show & tell" category on discussions
13:20:42  <TrueBrain> where people can leave stories what they are up to in relation to the project
13:20:48  <TrueBrain> that is a bit what I was looking for .. :D
13:21:18  <TrueBrain>
13:21:21  <TrueBrain> just randomly ran into it :P
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14:05:07  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9017: WIP: allow multiplayer without port forwarding (using STUN)
14:06:13  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 commented on pull request #208: Add: monthly dev post for May 2021
14:12:57  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] James103 commented on pull request #208: Add: monthly dev post for May 2021
14:16:24  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9052: Packet encapsulation
14:16:29  <TrueBrain> lol, I see pedantic mode has been activated :D
14:16:52  <TrueBrain> debating the placement of a comma :P
14:17:13  <LordAro> inside the quote is a bit odd
14:17:31  <LordAro> though i think i might have been taught that it is the technically correct form
14:17:41  <TrueBrain> there are a lot of "technically correct" comments on that PR
14:17:50  <LordAro> regardless, i don't think a quote is necessary at all there
14:18:02  <TrueBrain> yeah ... I have a better solution
14:18:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain closed pull request #208: Add: monthly dev post for May 2021
14:18:13  <TrueBrain> FIXED IT!
14:18:13  <TrueBrain> :P
14:18:23  <LordAro> oh dear
14:18:28  <LordAro> such an andy solution
14:18:44  <TrueBrain> nah, it needs a better platform
14:18:46  <TrueBrain> this is not working
14:18:55  <LordAro> :(
14:19:11  <TrueBrain> also, endless debating linguistic preferences is a bit a waste of time :D
14:19:33  <TrueBrain> I really really REALLY do not care where that comma goes, and I am pretty sure 99% of our intended audience doesn't either :P
14:19:38  <LordAro> i think it was working perfectly fine, fwiw
14:19:46  <LordAro> you're always welcome to ignore the feedback
14:19:54  <TrueBrain> no, I am not talking about that feedback :)
14:20:02  <TrueBrain> I don't mind that feedback as long as I can ignore  it :D
14:20:05  <TrueBrain> (which I do :P)
14:20:14  <LordAro> i wasn't (entirely) talking about the feedback either :p
14:20:27  <TrueBrain> I want to try something different with this post
14:20:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9052: Packet encapsulation
14:20:38  <LordAro> you could probably argue that news/blogs needed splitting, but it's probably not a vast amount of work to do so
14:20:38  <TrueBrain> see if that provokes more reaction :)
14:21:02  <TrueBrain> as mentioned earlier today, I don't like the static form of the website for these kind of posts
14:21:06  <TrueBrain> it is not hitting the mark for me
14:21:48  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #208: Add: monthly dev post for May 2021
14:22:13  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9052: Packet encapsulation
14:22:35  <TrueBrain> so to be clear, what I am saying: this is not working for me :P Not in general :D
14:24:32  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9052: Packet encapsulation
14:25:47  <TrueBrain> LordAro: but on this subject, what do you think about show&tell I linked earlier. You think that is worth a shot?
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14:27:22  <LordAro> TrueBrain: idk, i'm generally a bit distrustful of using github for anything more than code
14:27:35  <LordAro> distrustful? mistrustful? whatevs
14:27:54  <TrueBrain> why? (I can fill in the blanks, but it is better to ask :D)
14:30:05  <TrueBrain> I btw think it is a fair point, to be clear :D
14:30:24  <LordAro> because it feels very social media, and outside of what github should be used for. It's not something that can be (relatively easily) moved to another platform
14:31:42  <TrueBrain> its funny that GitHub clear with Discussions want to be a bit more like social media :D
14:31:46  <TrueBrain> but I fully get what you mean
14:32:24  <TrueBrain> the main issue with a show&tell on GitHub what I have, is that is kinda excludes talk about NewGRFs etc, as that is not "part of OpenTTD code"
14:32:56  <TrueBrain> clear=clearly, typing is hard
14:34:50  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9052: Packet encapsulation
14:37:47  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9052: Packet encapsulation
14:41:28  <TrueBrain> why aren't these links working, I wonder .. annoying :P
14:42:24  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9052: Packet encapsulation
14:46:30  <_dp_> funny how with all that encapsulation packets still close connections :p
14:46:37  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9052: Packet encapsulation
14:48:43  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #9052: Packet encapsulation
14:51:03  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9052: Packet encapsulation
14:56:40  <TrueBrain> lol, we track "client language", but never do anything with it what so ever
14:56:41  <TrueBrain> silly feature anyway
14:59:44  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #9069: Few things to cleanup in the network code
15:05:43  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 commented on pull request #208: Add: monthly dev post for May 2021
15:08:46  <TrueBrain> right, lets see how many strong opinions this next PR triggers ...
15:09:10  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #9070: Remove "map_name" and "language" from network protocol / GUI
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15:14:10  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #9069: Few things to cleanup in the network code
15:16:39  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #208: Add: monthly dev post for May 2021
15:16:53  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I looked it up (I had to :P) .. UK publishers put the comma after the closing quote .. US before :D
15:16:59  <TrueBrain> I love those nuances in the English language
15:17:06  <TrueBrain> totally irrelevant either way for our use-case
15:17:08  <TrueBrain> but I had to know :D
15:17:16  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #9070: Remove "map_name" and "language" from network protocol / GUI
15:18:19  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9069: Few things to cleanup in the network code
15:18:52  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9069: Few things to cleanup in the network code
15:21:21  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #9069: Few things to cleanup in the network code
15:24:29  <TrueBrain> fast reviews, tnx LordAro :)
15:24:53  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #9070: Remove "map_name" and "language" from network protocol / GUI
15:30:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #9069: Few things to cleanup in the network code
15:30:36  <TrueBrain> why are you guys remarking code that has been there for years :P :P
15:31:32  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9069: Few things to cleanup in the network code
15:32:25  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #9069: Few things to cleanup in the network code
15:32:47  <glx> my brain was confused :)
15:33:51  <TrueBrain> I had to check if a "case" in a switch could have multiple "breaks" :D
15:33:54  <TrueBrain> but you can :P
15:34:08  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #9069: Few things to cleanup in the network code
15:34:20  <TrueBrain> its weird code anyway .. but I didn't want to touch the code itself
15:34:29  <TrueBrain> I just got really annoyed so many places were abusing it :P
15:34:31  <_dp_> TrueBrain, how many opinions it triggers in 15 minutes it was open? :p
15:34:52  <TrueBrain> _dp_: that never stopped anyone
15:35:44  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #9052: Packet encapsulation
15:37:09  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9052: Packet encapsulation
15:40:51  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9052: Packet encapsulation
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15:46:16  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9052: Packet encapsulation
15:46:31  <TrueBrain> looks really nice Rubidium :)
15:48:02  <Rubidium> still have to do some retesting after all the rebasing (and failed rebase attempts)
15:50:23  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #9053: Change: merge duplicate logic to scroll in lists by key into a single location
15:50:25  <TrueBrain> I know those issues :P
15:52:08  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9052: Packet encapsulation
15:53:03  <glx> yeah sometimes you have to fix all commits after a simple fixup
15:54:51  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #9052: Packet encapsulation
15:55:11  <Rubidium> glx: and then you figure out that you combined the first two commits instead of leaving them as two, and you have to do everything again?
15:55:22  <glx> yup
15:55:41  <Rubidium> luckily I didn't need to touch stdafx.h or so, so compile times are reasonable
15:56:13  <glx> at least to split commits you can always first duplicate it in rebase
15:56:26  <LordAro> good ol' commit --amend vs rebase --continue
16:01:53  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9053: Change: merge duplicate logic to scroll in lists by key into a single location
16:05:03  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #9053: Change: merge duplicate logic to scroll in lists by key into a single location
16:05:13  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #9068: Fix: [CMake] Don't include regression AIs in bundles
16:06:17  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #9053: Change: merge duplicate logic to scroll in lists by key into a single location
16:10:19  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #9053: Change: merge duplicate logic to scroll in lists by key into a single location
16:17:31  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #9068: Fix: [CMake] Don't include regression AIs in bundles
16:24:23  <glx> oh of course strgen is not happy
16:29:39  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #9068: Fix: [CMake] Don't include regression AIs in bundles
16:30:58  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #9053: Change: merge duplicate logic to scroll in lists by key into a single location
16:31:13  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #9068: Fix: [CMake] Don't include regression AIs in bundles
16:46:18  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #9068: Fix: [CMake] Don't include regression AIs in bundles
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17:14:52  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #9066: Fix: Auto-fill version details in rev.cpp and ottres.rc
17:15:16  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9052: Packet encapsulation
17:16:36  <TrueBrain> you do you :P
17:22:51  <andythenorth>
17:22:59  <andythenorth> "I deliever goods to a city I want to grow. It works really well."
17:23:09  <andythenorth> or doesn't in fact cause growth at all
17:27:17  <Timberwolf> How's this for an old myth?
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17:30:11  <andythenorth> that the original manual?
17:30:56  <Timberwolf> The Deluxe one, yeah.
17:31:03  <Timberwolf> Not sure if it has the same thing in the original.
17:32:12  <andythenorth> "rivals"
17:32:22  <andythenorth> "rivals'" ?
17:32:47  <Timberwolf> The manual is a bit casual with the grocer's apostrophe, or omission thereof.
17:35:03  <andythenorth> that's how we roll down here
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17:44:07  <peter1138> hi
17:44:54  <peter1138> I messed up my legs again
17:51:04  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
17:51:05  <DorpsGek>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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18:48:09  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #9052: Packet encapsulation
18:48:18  <LordAro> peter1138: gj :)
18:50:04  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9052: Packet encapsulation
18:51:38  <TrueBrain> maybe LordAro can help with if templates are better than std::function :D
18:52:42  <frosch123> yes, templates/lambdas are better
18:53:00  <frosch123> compilers can inline them, std::function is a lot harder to inline
18:53:06  <LordAro> the general thinking is thst std::function is a lot of overhead
18:53:32  <LordAro> which is a shame really, because it's a much nicer way of doing type safety
18:53:57  <Rubidium> oh, I might have gone a bit overboard then... as I don't use the lambdas anymore
18:54:27  <Rubidium> or I do something that could maybe be done by a lambda the "wrong" way
18:59:14  <frosch123> <- essentially, just replace the std::function with 1 template parameter
18:59:28  <frosch123> and remove the functions that convert lambdas into std::function
19:00:29  <frosch123> ah, you use them multiple times
19:01:53  <frosch123> so TransferTCPRecv needs to return an "auto", and somehow the lambda-capture must be prevented from holding stack variables
19:02:29  <frosch123> it may be easier to capture pointers then, i am not sure how references as references :)
19:02:52  <frosch123> *how references are captured as references
19:03:27  <Rubidium> maybe my current "solution" with templates is better than? Although a bit iffy too
19:03:39  <frosch123> though TransferTCPRecv is not that long, so duplicating it is not that bad
19:04:11  <frosch123> there is nothing wrong with your template solution
19:04:41  <frosch123> it's the same as the lambda version, just more raw code, instead of fancy code :)
19:05:39  <frosch123> ah, the transfer_function is only called once. yeah, stay with the templates
19:05:53  <frosch123> it's weird to capture stuff that is only used once
19:24:58  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #9052: Packet encapsulation
19:38:09  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Andrew350 opened issue #9071: [NRT] Building a tramtype over a roadtype with the NO_HOUSES flag set causes the flag to be ignored
19:38:50  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 closed issue #9062: "File version" is incorrect for Windows OpenTTD executable
19:38:53  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #9066: Fix: Auto-fill version details in rev.cpp and ottres.rc
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20:18:03  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] tendersoft-mjb commented on issue #9031: Rivers going uphill are nearly impossible to distinguish from flat river
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20:29:10  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] FLHerne commented on issue #9031: Rivers going uphill are nearly impossible to distinguish from flat river
20:33:47  <Timberwolf> Damn it. Distracted from stations by car identification.
20:34:05  <Timberwolf> I can get everything but the beige car hidden behind the fence to the left of the Metro :)
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20:36:08  <frosch123> uff, i am too young for that :p
20:39:39  <andythenorth> beer time
20:39:48  <andythenorth> I forgot to have beer already
20:40:09  <andythenorth> Timberwolf back of a Morris Ital?
20:40:10  * andythenorth looks
20:40:21  <andythenorth> nah wrong
20:40:40  <frosch123> Timberwolf: it's a rather big car. most cars of that time only have 2 glasses per side, this one has 3
20:40:56  <Timberwolf> I need a spoiler tag.
20:41:27  <andythenorth> what's the blue van?
20:41:41  <Timberwolf> Ooh, I missed the van.
20:42:41  <andythenorth> tough gig the van
20:42:59  <andythenorth> the beige car I recognise, it's annoying :x
20:43:06  <Timberwolf> Thin rear pillar, fairly sloped/curved, maybe Mk2 Transit?
20:43:35  <andythenorth> I was guessing transit
20:44:11  <andythenorth>
20:45:44  <andythenorth> renault 12?
20:45:59  <andythenorth> nah, the rear boot isn't right
20:46:18  <Timberwolf> I make it E12 BMW 520, Honda C90, Rover P6, Mazda 323, Alfa Romeo Alfetta saloon, Austin Metro, Rover SD1, Hillman Avenger.
20:46:26  <Timberwolf> (anticlockwise from bottom right)
20:46:31  <andythenorth>
20:47:21  <Timberwolf> I think it has the hockey stick rear lights.
20:47:46  <andythenorth> agree
20:48:58  <andythenorth> the bikes are quite retro
20:54:37  <frosch123> simca 1308s has a matching window composition
20:54:41  <frosch123> but appears too tall
20:56:19  <Timberwolf> The brown car is a Rover SD1, the wheels are very distinctive. (and the BL colour options!)
20:56:43  <Timberwolf> We got the Simca 1308, but badged as a Chrysler Alpine.
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20:58:02  <frosch123> yeah, i am too young for this :)
20:58:49  <Timberwolf> In theory I should be by about 5-6 years, but I was very good at this when I was young :)
20:59:11  <Timberwolf> Also knew plenty of people who had older-than-expected cars.
21:01:10  <glx> we had a R12
21:04:15  <Timberwolf> We had a string of Nissan Bluebirds.
21:04:48  <Timberwolf> Punctuated by a Volvo 240.
21:05:33  <glx> R12 then R11 then R19 and now clio III
21:06:07  <FLHerne> Family car for the first decade of my life was a 1st-gen Proton Saga
21:06:14  <FLHerne> complete with single wing mirror
21:06:38  <FLHerne> I'm told it was red once, but I always knew it as a mid-pink
21:07:01  <Timberwolf> Oh yes, the curse of red cars in the '80s.
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21:15:21  <FLHerne> That one got written off
21:15:54  <FLHerne> We were camping in Norfolk, and Dad rear-ended a Land Rover presumably through sleep deprivation
21:16:18  <FLHerne> The entire front end was crumpled up like a crumped thing, and the LR literally had a ding in the paint
21:16:48  <glx> it may have had it before
21:16:49  <LordAro> sounds about right
21:16:56  <FLHerne> Then, front end gaffer-taped up, it got stuck in the mud at the campsite up to its axles and towed out
21:17:05  <FLHerne> The insurance adjuster wrote down "flood damage?"
21:18:03  <Timberwolf> The Bluebirds ended when my parents divorced, Dad bought an old Mk2 Granada and my stepdad bought a very faded blue Vauxhall Cavalier automatic.
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21:36:45  <supermop_Home_> Timberwolf voxel up one of these?
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21:41:47  <Timberwolf> Heh. We didn't get so many of those. The Cortina and Sierra-based pickups were popular, though:
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22:13:36  <Beerbelott> Is there a way to create clone of vehicles directly with *shared* orders from it (and not merely copied over)?
22:13:46  <Beerbelott> fro mthem*
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22:19:10  <supermop_Home_> ctrl
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