Log for #openttd on 26th April 2021:
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00:59:22  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on pull request #9067: Feature: rework in-game Network GUI
01:11:39  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on issue #9094: Electric train waits for free path when track is not electrified
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04:45:27  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 approved pull request #9111: Fix 8a95fee4: Missing initialiser in Packet constructor
04:45:41  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #9111: Fix 8a95fee4: Missing initialiser in Packet constructor
04:51:14  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9099: "Feature": Bigger packets in network protocols
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07:06:45  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] silpol commented on issue #9090: OpenTTD crash in windows Steam, on start
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07:45:38  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9067: Feature: rework in-game Network GUI
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07:55:42  <peter1138> Hmm, can I stop Regression and StationList being picked up as a random AI?
08:00:47  <LordAro> there is a setting that can be set in info.nut
08:00:51  <LordAro> surprised it isn't, tbh
08:07:08  <erle->
08:07:09  <erle-> kek
08:35:54  <TrueBrain> lol, so many "failed with: 11" when I hit "search internet" button .. I am happy we are fixing that :D
08:41:12  <LordAro> 11?
08:41:35  <TrueBrain> resource temporary unavailable :)
08:41:51  <TrueBrain> happens if you send out 400 UDP packets at once :D
08:41:56  <LordAro> ah
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08:43:02  <TrueBrain> hmm .. I am changing the connect() code to be async, so we can have decent timeouts etc
08:43:14  <TrueBrain> but ... when I select() the socket, I get "No such file or directory" sometimes
08:43:16  <TrueBrain> lol
08:43:19  <TrueBrain> what am I doing wrong :D
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08:48:59  <TrueBrain> misunderstanding what select() does, lol
08:49:04  <TrueBrain> that is what I was doing wrong :D
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09:07:10  <TrueBrain> what is a good timeout .. if no connection after 1 second, can we assume it will never happen?
09:08:13  <peter1138> For what?
09:08:16  <peter1138> 1 second is a bit short.
09:08:18  <LordAro> if it does, it won't be fast enough for OTTD anyway, i would think?
09:08:37  <TrueBrain> peter1138: for TCP connections
09:08:46  <peter1138> That much was assumed...
09:08:48  <TrueBrain> is it really short? If there is no SYN+ACK in 1 second, you expect it to come after that?
09:09:03  <TrueBrain> LordAro: "be fast enough", sorry, what do you mean?
09:09:07  <peter1138> If I'm playing on an Australian server, for instance.
09:09:21  <peter1138> Maybe 300 ms latency. It should happen within 1 second, but...
09:09:23  <TrueBrain> peter1138: this allows a latency of 500ms :P
09:09:32  <TrueBrain> but okay, 2 seconds? :)
09:10:15  <LordAro> TrueBrain: no idea, haven't woken up yet
09:10:21  <LordAro> 2s still seems low
09:10:24  <LordAro> 5?
09:10:36  <TrueBrain> there is this tradeoff between user friendlyness and supporting all use-cases
09:10:47  <TrueBrain> to give a counter example: your IPv6 is broken, you click Online Content
09:10:55  <TrueBrain> how long to wait to fall back to IPv4?
09:11:14  <TrueBrain> 5 seconds feels like a long time for that scenario :)
09:11:17  <LordAro> what is this timeout for? all TCP things, or something specific?
09:11:26  <LordAro> real-life connections spike in latency a lot
09:11:30  <TrueBrain> it is a parameter, but does it really matter? :)
09:11:46  <TrueBrain> yeah, that is why normally it is 30 seconds on TCP
09:11:55  <TrueBrain> which is ... a bit excessive for many scenarios :D
09:12:36  <FLHerne> TrueBrain: My wifi network gets 1-3s hangups all the time
09:12:42  <FLHerne> (yes, this is annoying)
09:12:56  <TrueBrain> FLHerne: so the game will tell you it couldn't connect and you retry
09:13:01  <TrueBrain> not sure that matters much, honestly :)
09:13:14  <TrueBrain> but there is no perfect value here, to be clear
09:13:16  <FLHerne> Or it could just wait a bit longer :p
09:13:27  <FLHerne> What's the cost?
09:13:27  <TrueBrain> there is always an edge-case
09:13:29  <TrueBrain> just .. the edgecases now favour long delays :)
09:13:47  <LordAro> people with dodgy connections are used to waiting a bit longer
09:13:52  <TrueBrain> there are 2 main scenarios that are an issue atm: IPv6 failures
09:13:53  <TrueBrain> and STUN
09:13:54  * LordAro says, with a dodgy connection
09:14:01  <TrueBrain> waiting 30s to know if STUN is working
09:14:04  <TrueBrain> that is not .. playable :P
09:14:14  <TrueBrain> so we have to strike a balance somewhere
09:14:30  <LordAro> i would say 5-10
09:14:49  <TrueBrain> 5 seconds is a really long time already .. UX wise, that is not really friendly
09:15:03  <TrueBrain> 3 seconds is mostly use as "annoyance" indicator
09:15:09  <TrueBrain> after 3 seconds people start to click away, basically :P
09:15:27  <TrueBrain> and 3 seconds would mean a latency of 1500ms in both directions
09:15:35  <TrueBrain> I guess we could argue those connections will have problems anyway
09:16:56  <TrueBrain> now I wonder what things lik Valve GameNetworkingSockets do ..
09:18:02  <TrueBrain> "Estimate a conservative (i.e. err on the large side) timeout for the connection"
09:18:05  <TrueBrain> constexpr SteamNetworkingMicroseconds k_usecMaxTimeout = 1250000;
09:18:12  <TrueBrain> so 1.25 seconds
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09:30:41  <peter1138> Oops, starting prefixing my commits with Fix: etc in the work repo... well, no harm really :)
09:31:20  <peter1138> TrueBrain, check browser logic for testing IPv6/IPv4 connectivity...
09:31:33  <peter1138> IIRC they basically do both at the same time, and then use the fastest one.
09:31:48  <TrueBrain> yeah, that is another solution for IPv6/IPv4 issue
09:31:50  <TrueBrain> not for the STUN issue :D
09:32:16  <TrueBrain> well, browsers don't really do IPv6 and IPv4 at the same time, if I remember correctly
09:32:23  <TrueBrain> but they stack the IPv4 shortly after IPv6 is not connected yet
09:33:11  <peter1138> Yeah, but they do both rather than waiting for a timeout.
09:33:47  <peter1138> Not saying OpenTTD should do the same, just it's a problem that others encounter too :)
09:34:36  <TrueBrain> yup .. it is a difficult issue :)
09:34:44  <TrueBrain> I am writing a PR, makes talking a bit easier
09:35:13  <peter1138> Urgh, changelogs
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09:46:49  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #9112: Change: [Network] lower TCP connect() timeout to 3s
09:47:58  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9112: Change: [Network] lower TCP connect() timeout to 3s
09:49:13  <TrueBrain> @calc 500 / 30
09:49:13  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 16.666666666666668
09:51:14  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9112: Change: [Network] lower TCP connect() timeout to 3s
09:51:27  <TrueBrain> funny, after connect(), we give a client 3 seconds to announce itself as ready to join
09:51:45  <TrueBrain> so it seems that clients with a latency of 3+ seconds already aren't welcome :D
09:51:58  <TrueBrain> (which would be 6 seconds connect() timeout, to be clear)
09:53:16  <peter1138> You might just be able to connect to a server if you're on the Moon.
09:53:27  <TrueBrain> TO THE MOON!! :D
09:53:34  <TrueBrain> wait, wrong subreddit :P
09:53:55  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9112: Change: [Network] lower TCP connect() timeout to 3s
09:55:06  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9112: Change: [Network] lower TCP connect() timeout to 3s
09:56:31  <TrueBrain> hmm .. I still wonder what would be the best way for STUN .. what a lot of games do, and I understand why, is on startup evaluate the connection a client has (no matter if he wants to join a server or become one)
09:56:44  <TrueBrain> just probe his connection, basically
09:57:02  <peter1138> That can sound too much like phoning home.
09:57:09  <TrueBrain> yup
09:57:33  <TrueBrain> the alternative is that we find out after you started a server nobody will be able to join you :D
09:57:57  <TrueBrain> knowing what capabilities a connection has, saves a lot of setup time too
09:57:58  <LordAro> Add a "test connection" button :p
09:58:11  <TrueBrain> yeah, that nobody is going to press :D But I do like the idea :)
09:58:24  <LordAro> better than something happening silently in the background
09:58:29  <TrueBrain> fully agree
09:59:09  <TrueBrain> hmm .. what is fun, that I can track how long it takes for people to establish connetions
09:59:21  <TrueBrain> so when STUN is done, the argument "what the timeout should be" can be based on stats :D
09:59:43  <peter1138> I think a button would work fine, either separately or as part of starting.
09:59:52  <TrueBrain> what I was initially thinking to do
09:59:54  <TrueBrain> that when you start a server
09:59:57  <peter1138> Although for a LAN-only server maybe separate.
10:00:02  <TrueBrain> we test if you can be a server
10:00:07  <TrueBrain> and if that fails, report in the GUI
10:00:12  <TrueBrain> (and if really nobody can join, show an error)
10:00:32  <TrueBrain> (assuming you set your server to non-private)
10:00:33  <peter1138> I assume a Test Server feature can test a non-stun connection too
10:00:42  <peter1138> Assuming that non-stun is still possible.
10:00:48  <TrueBrain> but I like the idea of a button earlier too
10:00:50  <TrueBrain> for those that want to know
10:01:14  <TrueBrain> yeah, basically, what the Game Coordinator tries: direct-connect, STUN via connect/connect, STUN via connect/accept, and possibly, TURN
10:01:39  <peter1138> I reminded of various verions of MS Outlook Express/MS Mail that offered a "test connection" button, but didn't actually use the credentials...
10:02:06  <peter1138> There we go, no SteamWorks SDK GPL violation needed.
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10:02:28  <peter1138> Solved by STUN and Test Connection.
10:02:29  <TrueBrain> anyway, testing clients can help pick the right method of STUN if needed .. now it needs to wait for a timeout :)
10:02:50  <TrueBrain> but I can make that feel less harsh by showing a "Connecting .." window
10:02:56  <TrueBrain> which is currently lacking, surprisingly
10:03:15  <TrueBrain> and just show: Connecting via method 1 / 3 ...
10:03:16  <TrueBrain> etc
10:06:41  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened issue #9113:  Crash/assertion failure when removing airport when hangar window open and OrderBackup present
10:08:01  <TrueBrain> lol, Windows has a 24s timeout by default, Linux 20s, and BSD 75s
10:08:03  <TrueBrain> :D
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10:09:49  <LordAro> #8717 is the gift that keeps on giving
10:10:12  <TrueBrain> BSD is including MacOS btw
10:10:17  <TrueBrain> 75 seconds ... that is insane :D
10:10:41  <TrueBrain> LordAro: ugh, yes indeed .. :(
10:12:57  <TrueBrain> amyway, I agree that 1s is too low for a timeout, but it does make the STUN stuff more challenging ... I am now somewhat tempted to write code that does allow multiple approaches at the same time to collapse them when ever one succeeds ..
10:13:06  <TrueBrain> the problem: debugging that code would be so difficult
10:13:10  <TrueBrain> (as in, real world debugging)
10:13:35  <TrueBrain> meh, no
10:13:39  <TrueBrain> simple == better
10:14:14  <peter1138> KISS
10:14:20  <peter1138> Less is more.
10:14:23  <TrueBrain> yeah, all those
10:14:26  <peter1138> andy's motto.
10:14:45  <TrueBrain> so okay, a nice GUI showing where you are with connecting to a server, will do fine
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10:17:25  <TrueBrain> hihi, I can also move the "timeout" value to the game-coordinator, as in, the he can control that value
10:17:29  <TrueBrain> so we can dynamically tune it
10:17:41  <TrueBrain> without a new release :P
10:17:43  <TrueBrain> is that evil? :D
10:19:20  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: what about a more staggered approach? For connecting to the GC you could attempt IPv6 and if it has not connected within at 300 ms, start the process for IPv4. If IPv6 connects, you know IPv6 is "fast". If only IPv4 connects, you know for later to not try IPv6 anymore as it is probably broken. If both connect (i.e. IPv6 takes more than 300 ms), you can take a look at the connection time of
10:19:26  <Rubidium> IPv4 and IPv6 to determine whether there is a significant difference in connect time to determine the preferred one. I reckon for servers to the GC you can do something similar
10:20:16  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: that is basically what peter1138 already suggested, yes
10:20:22  <TrueBrain> the problem is the complexity of such code
10:20:45  <Rubidium> and based on the client+server the GC tries to connect it knows whether or not to attempt IPv6, so there you can stagger the connection options by maybe 500 ms and bail out (except for TURN, there I would wait until the other options timed out)
10:21:27  <TrueBrain> I forgot about IPv4 / IPv6 .. means we could have up to 4 ways of doing STUN :D
10:21:29  <TrueBrain> joy ;)
10:21:41  <Rubidium> having said that, just going with the lower connect timeout for now would probably suffice and these "improvements" would then be a later step if it is deemed necessary
10:21:52  <TrueBrain> I rather do that, yes :)
10:21:53  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #9113: Crash/assertion failure when removing airport when hangar window open and OrderBackup present
10:22:02  <TrueBrain> first, getting it to work, in a simple explainable way
10:22:06  <TrueBrain> second, improve :P
10:23:10  <Rubidium> though the GC knowing with what connection the client and server connected could already remove some of the possible attempts to perform with STUN, or at least push them to a place later in the search order
10:23:27  <TrueBrain> yup
10:23:37  <TrueBrain> but IPv4 / IPv6 is not a real issue here
10:24:11  <TrueBrain> but how STUN works, you know if a client (and server) has IPv4 and/or IPv6
10:24:29  <TrueBrain> and you cannot make a connection attempt between IPv4 client and IPv6 server, ofc :P
10:24:57  <Rubidium> i.e. if GC knows both do IPv6, try IPv6 DC, IPv6 SCC, IPv6 SCA, IPv4 DC, IPv4 SCC, IPv4 SCA, IPv6 TURN, IPv4 TURN
10:26:12  <Rubidium> though can't an IPv6 server make a connection to the IPv4 client via some 6-to-4 bridge? (I remember something like encoding IPv4 into an IPv6 address as a solution for something, but whether it is actually used I do not know)
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10:26:20  <TrueBrain> in the end, I guess, we will have some soft timeout and a hard timeout on Connect
10:26:23  <TrueBrain> but okay, future stuff
10:26:26  <TrueBrain> not here, not now :)
10:26:51  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: that exists, but .. last I checked, barely used
10:26:56  <TrueBrain> well, not completely true
10:27:02  <TrueBrain> there are ISPs that only give IPv6 to users
10:27:10  <TrueBrain> and have a 6to4 to give them the rest of the internet
10:27:14  <TrueBrain> via CGNAT
10:27:20  <TrueBrain> but from our perspecitve
10:27:26  <TrueBrain> the server will have an IPv4 and IPv6, I guess
10:27:49  <TrueBrain> (as locally the computer is dual-stack announced)
10:28:16  <TrueBrain> there are ways to use an IPv6 socket to send IPv4 packets directly, but that .. is not something I want to delve into :P
10:28:35  <TrueBrain> anyway, ::ffff:<ipv4> exists within IPv6
10:32:31  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #9112: Change: [Network] lower TCP connect() timeout to 3s
10:33:51  <TrueBrain> "Support playing the game on Mars" when?
10:34:00  <TrueBrain> something I still want to try .. OpenTTD via email
10:34:23  <TrueBrain> focus TrueBrain , focus .. ffs
10:34:31  <LordAro> would that even work?
10:34:31  <TrueBrain> right, what next .. euh .. GAME_INFO to TCP, I guess
10:35:24  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I have plenty of ideas how that would work, but mostly it needs a way to resolve conflicts :D Which sounds like a fun friday-afternoon-thought-project :)
10:35:56  <TrueBrain> hmm .. build-planning with realistic build-times ... :P
10:36:06  <TrueBrain> you plan a station, and a year later it is build
10:36:12  <TrueBrain> the bigger the station, the longer the build time
10:36:18  <TrueBrain> REALISMMMMM
10:36:56  <TrueBrain> would cause the inverse of daylength patches .. time has to go quicker :D
10:38:27  <LordAro> haha
10:39:02  <LordAro> i've always thought that was a deficiency of KSP - i shouldn't be able to launch 20 rockets in the space of a week
10:39:14  <LordAro> (yes, i'm aware there are mods to fix this, but i've yet to try any)
10:41:21  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: maybe make the building time also depending on the location? If you play it in China things get built a lot faster than say around Schönefeld
10:47:19  <peter1138>
10:47:29  <peter1138> Daylength isn't enough. It must be 1:1 realtime... o_O
10:51:12  <Rubidium> nah, we just need a knob edition of OpenTTD where people can tweak (almost) all constants. For example, the number of ms in a tick, the number of ticks in a day, the length of a tile for speed purposes, the gravity+air density for acceleration (obviously with side effects on aircraft), the viscosity of water, ...
10:52:44  <Timberwolf> As long as there are plans for building a control console (I'm thinking something looking like a 1970s Moog synthesiser)
10:54:11  <Rubidium> though practically I would implement it with a number of named constants in the source code and just recompile their binary when they want some other setting. That saves us from having to add hundreds of settings
10:54:20  <peter1138> realistic acceleration for aircraft!
10:54:33  <Rubidium> and lets call that OTTDP ;)
10:55:53  <Timberwolf> I still think it should interface with a hardware control panel, something like
10:55:54  <LordAro> if they want realtime, clearly should move the vehicles in real time too
10:55:57  <peter1138> JGRPP is basically OTTDP...
10:56:04  <LordAro> 3 hours for a vehicle to get between 2 towns? sure!
10:56:04  <peter1138> Realtime pixels.
10:57:58  <peter1138> 1 hour to get from here to London by train. It's about 40 miles
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10:58:28  <Rubidium> peter1138: nah, JGRPP does not create a new binary to be run when changing some settings, right? Or does it?
10:58:44  <peter1138> Ouch.
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11:04:00  <Timberwolf> 1 hour from a given London mainline station is a weirdly large isochrone.
11:04:38  <Timberwolf> Often including many places counted as "London" themselves.
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11:11:28  <andythenorth> lunch though isn't it
11:15:55  <peter1138> Almost.
11:16:20  <andythenorth> cheese on toast
11:16:23  <andythenorth> not mac and cheese
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11:52:51  <Timberwolf> I couldn't find a small enough bag of spinach for weekend dinner, so lunch today was mostly leaves.
11:55:37  <peter1138> Okay, I've got a salad.
11:55:55  <peter1138> Half a romaine lettuce & ancilliaries.
11:56:15  <peter1138> Shall I go outside and enjoy in the sun, or sit here and contemplate.
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12:03:28  <orudge> What is this "sun" of what you speak? We had some yesterday I believe (indeed it was quite lovely); today it's back to grey.
12:03:35  <orudge> Conveniently, for those so inclined, on the same day the pubs reopen
12:05:09  <LordAro> huh? we've had lovely weather all week
12:05:58  <peter1138> It's sunny but cold.
12:07:33  <TrueBrain> it's sunny and warm
12:07:37  <TrueBrain> can't wait to get an airco .. ugh
12:11:56  <orudge> It was nice most of last week, back to Scottish standard weather today though!
12:15:10  <peter1138> And... my heating has just come on.
12:16:23  <LordAro> i should think about turning that off in the next week or so
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12:24:44  <supermop_Home> hi
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12:45:07  <peter1138> hi
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13:53:20  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] zilti commented on issue #7897: Can't insert new order... Vehicle can't go to that station (Maglev Train)
13:58:03  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #7897: Can't insert new order... Vehicle can't go to that station (Maglev Train)
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14:01:27  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #7897: Can't insert new order... Vehicle can't go to that station (Maglev Train)
14:06:27  <TrueBrain> so ... I was happily building the direct connecting with a server doesn't require UDP anymore
14:06:36  <TrueBrain> needed for STUN, but also in general, just easier for those connecting via IP
14:06:45  <TrueBrain> I only kinda forgot .. that we do revision checks AFTER the lobby
14:07:00  <TrueBrain> so for "-n <ip>" connects, I have no way of knowing if the server understands my request ..
14:07:10  <TrueBrain> and of course we never do a protocol handshake on TCP :P
14:07:15  <TrueBrain> as "a revision check is enough" :D
14:08:10  <TrueBrain> sadly, it is merged in the CLIENT_JOIN packet
14:09:23  <TrueBrain> this all works fine via GUI .. but that "-n" option .. whhhyyyyyyy
14:09:48  <TrueBrain> hmm .. or not? Hmm .. wait .. it completely skips the lobby
14:09:50  <TrueBrain> euhh ... okay
14:09:52  <TrueBrain> NEVERMIND
14:09:55  <TrueBrain> nothing to see here :P
14:22:33  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #9114: Change: don't require UDP when opening the lobby of a server
14:24:38  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9114: Change: don't require UDP when opening the lobby of a server
14:32:00  <TrueBrain> owh, first time I noticed I get junk from emails used on GitHub only (as committer)
14:32:04  <TrueBrain> lovely
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14:54:20  <LordAro> hmm.
14:58:32  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9114: Change: don't require UDP when opening the lobby of a server
14:58:54  <TrueBrain> LordAro: LOL
14:59:11  <TrueBrain> how did you find that?! :D
14:59:20  <LordAro> i'm stealing bits for work
14:59:41  <TrueBrain> don't forget to GPL license it :P :P :P :P
14:59:44  <TrueBrain> :D :D
14:59:54  <TrueBrain> funny, so someone wrote that code, but never tested it, I guess :)
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15:08:18  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9114: Change: no longer use UDP when entering the lobby of a server
15:12:13  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9114: Change: no longer use UDP when entering the lobby of a server
15:14:53  <TrueBrain> owh, lol, I forgot about this:
15:14:54  <TrueBrain> git config --global diff.colorMoved zebra
15:15:05  <TrueBrain> that makes seeing that I just moved code in the first commit in my PR a lot easier :D
15:15:50  <TrueBrain> (it shows via colours what lines of code moved)
15:16:43  <TrueBrain> screenshot for the effect: :)
15:19:43  <LordAro> neat
15:22:15  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9114: Change: no longer use UDP when entering the lobby of a server
15:24:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9114: Change: no longer use UDP when entering the lobby of a server
15:24:30  <TrueBrain> okay, enough bikeshedding
15:27:21  <TrueBrain> I lied
15:27:25  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9114: Change: no longer use UDP when entering the lobby of a server
15:33:54  <glx> I'd check version compatibility before starting to look for newgrf
15:38:53  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9114: Change: no longer use UDP when entering the lobby of a server
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15:39:44  <Rubidium> I hope nothing got lost by the constant refreshing I needed to do because someone was force pushing all the time ;)
15:42:54  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9114: Change: no longer use UDP when entering the lobby of a server
15:43:37  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: SORRY! :)
15:43:41  <TrueBrain> I was just nitpicking comments :P
15:43:50  <TrueBrain> SendNetworkGameInfo -> PrepareNetworkGameInfoPacket ?
15:45:10  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9114: Change: no longer use UDP when entering the lobby of a server
15:46:53  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9114: Change: no longer use UDP when entering the lobby of a server
15:48:57  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9114: Change: no longer use UDP when entering the lobby of a server
15:50:23  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9114: Change: no longer use UDP when entering the lobby of a server
15:56:33  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9114: Change: no longer use UDP when entering the lobby of a server
16:08:27  <peter1138> Alright do we test if an event was handled and then pass it on to the widget parent... or not.
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16:11:57  <andythenorth> lol strikes AGAIN
16:12:11  <andythenorth> math.random(emoji)
16:12:23  <andythenorth> goes it include Iron Horse in FIRS?
16:12:31  <andythenorth> this shit gets old, seeing new users report it
16:12:31  <peter1138> Oh, I guess GetWidgetFromPos() only returns the most specific widget. Hmm.
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16:22:03  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Adsadafafas commented on issue #8969: Game Crash on Startup
16:22:54  <peter1138> Does github have a dark mode... hmm.
16:22:59  <LordAro> yes
16:23:05  <peter1138> Yes :D
16:24:01  <peter1138> I think this monitor is dying, there's a definite whine when it is displaying mostly white.
16:24:49  <peter1138> Tho not sure if it's the monitor itself of some speakers.
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16:26:06  <peter1138> So I need to GetWidget from within SetupSmallestSize, which means I need to FillNestedWidgets first, which is apparently expensive so isn't done. Hmm.
16:26:12  <peter1138> I wonder why/how it is expensive.
16:26:56  <frosch123> TrueBrain: *if* you want to know how to draw player icons in company colors, i can show you :)
16:27:24  <peter1138> 69 Open. Nice.
16:28:13  <peter1138> "This patch adds a window showing industry production history in last 24 months. (which already exists in Chris Sawyer's Locomotion)"
16:28:19  <peter1138> Well that's great justification? :)
16:30:41  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7575: Feature: Industry production graph
16:33:31  <Rubidium> frosch123: I think we first need to find someone outraged enough about the icons to come up with something less problematic, and then maybe worry about the company color
16:33:58  <frosch123> i actually liked them :)
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16:45:59  <peter1138> Hmm, I wonder if I can hide a scrollbar that isn't necessary...
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16:48:00  <peter1138>
16:48:10  <peter1138> It almost pretends to work :)
16:48:46  <peter1138> Almost tempts me to rewrite regular scrollbar handling though, and it's a can of worms.
16:49:36  <peter1138> Here, the window/widget code handles everything, in all other cases the specific window drawing code handles it.
16:50:28  <andythenorth> I like it!
16:50:30  <andythenorth> looks nice !
16:50:35  * andythenorth encouragement as a service
16:54:39  <peter1138> :p
16:54:52  <peter1138> Hmm, already code that says if a scrollbar is 0 pixels, don't draw...
16:55:34  <peter1138> I could just make this window be one custom drawn panel widget. It's custom drawn anyway, but...
17:00:14  <peter1138> Six. Whole. PMs.
17:02:10  <peter1138> Hmm, how do I get the main window height...
17:02:18  <peter1138> dropdown code does it. let me see.
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17:11:33  <peter1138> Ah, GetWidgetByPos needs to take account of scroll position. Hmm.
17:11:41  <peter1138> *FromPos
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17:33:29  <TrueBrain> frosch123: no, tnx I am good
17:33:30  <TrueBrain> :D
17:33:33  <TrueBrain> fuck GUI code :P
17:34:03  <peter1138> Hello :)
17:34:12  <TrueBrain> hi :D
17:34:22  <TrueBrain> I am happy you are having fun with it, honestly :P
17:34:32  <frosch123> TrueBrain: well, you have a free day tomorrow :p
17:34:32  <peter1138> Phew, GetWidgetFromPos follows the widget tree, meaning I can adjust the y position on the way.
17:34:48  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I have many free days these days :D
17:34:55  <peter1138> Except I need to pass Window*. Oh well.
17:35:05  <TrueBrain> over 200 of these ... :D
17:35:28  <TrueBrain> peter1138: btw, I was wondering how hard it is to just add a generic vscroll  ..
17:35:38  <TrueBrain> as now that stuff is handled in 10 different ways over as many different windows :P
17:35:47  <TrueBrain> but .. I realise I hate GUI, so I turned away :D
17:36:03  <peter1138> Well, in a normal toolkit a scrollbar would not be a separate widget, I think.
17:36:26  <TrueBrain> I also think it is a bit annoying that it only really works with a custom DrawWidget, from what I understand
17:36:42  <peter1138> Making any widget scrollable might actually be better than what I'm doing now, but.
17:36:42  <frosch123> usually you have a separation between widgets and widgetdata
17:36:44  <TrueBrain> like, I just want to fill the matrix with lines of text, and someone else should take care of the scrolling etc for me :P
17:36:57  <peter1138> TrueBrain, yup.
17:37:01  <frosch123> so, when you have a table with 10k rows, you have 10k widgetdata, but only as many widgets as visible rows
17:37:41  <peter1138> I think that's a specialised case though, not something a generic toolkit would do.
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17:39:46  <peter1138>
17:40:11  <TrueBrain> cool :D
17:41:12  <peter1138> overflow: auto
17:41:24  <peter1138> If only it were css.
17:43:38  <peter1138> Maybe I need to actually move the widgets :?
17:43:40  <peter1138> :/
17:44:12  <peter1138> Anything that does operations based on the widget position does not know about the scroll.
17:44:32  <TrueBrain> read: many places :D
17:44:39  <peter1138> SetWidgetDirty
17:44:49  <peter1138> Opening a dropdown...
17:44:59  <peter1138> Drag & drop I assume.
17:45:32  <peter1138> Hmm, maybe I can lie somewhere.
17:53:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
17:53:30  <DorpsGek>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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18:04:24  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9114: Change: no longer use UDP when entering the lobby of a server
18:09:10  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9114: Change: no longer use UDP when entering the lobby of a server
18:13:02  <peter1138> Maybe I can lie down somewhere.
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18:18:21  <andythenorth> lol
18:42:40  <andythenorth> maybe I eat some salad
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18:53:15  <peter1138> I had scrambled egg.
18:54:31  * andythenorth had rice and chicken
18:54:38  <andythenorth> yesterday I had chips and chicken
18:54:44  <andythenorth> and also the 2 days before that
19:03:28  <peter1138> Surely you've exhausted your supply chips and chicken?
19:08:39  <andythenorth> nearly
19:10:52  <andythenorth> had to get dinner at Chick-o-land in Salisbury last night
19:10:56  <andythenorth> for...reasons
19:11:36  <andythenorth> was pretty good
19:19:36  <frosch123> is that the packaging you left behind?
19:19:53  <peter1138> Reeves the baker near there is pretty good.
19:20:47  <peter1138> Beats Greggs any day.
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19:28:55  <LordAro> peter1138: thomas the baker or nothing
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20:06:57  <andythenorth> had a salad
20:08:37  <peter1138> Good.
20:11:21  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8794: Feature: Show rail/road/tram NewGRF name in Land Area Information window
20:22:27  <peter1138> Hmm, damn, problem with making scrollbars part of any widget is the resize box.
20:22:43  <peter1138> Layout wise. Tons of other issues :p
20:26:46  <peter1138> Does access to a std::vector do bounds checking?
20:26:59  * peter1138 asks google
20:27:12  <peter1138> Hmm, no.
20:28:50  <LordAro> peter1138: .at() does though
20:35:28  <andythenorth> so FIRS needs to supply vehicles I guess?
20:35:45  <LordAro> incidentally, /me had a pizza
20:35:47  <LordAro> andythenorth: nah
20:37:30  <andythenorth> not sure how else to stop the flood
20:37:31  <andythenorth> :P
20:37:38  <LordAro> ignore it!
20:38:00  <andythenorth> seems a bit crappy
20:38:23  <andythenorth> it was long ago decided that the default vehicles can't have classes, as it has to stay faithful to original
20:39:10  <andythenorth> I guess I could just disable FIRS if specific vehicle grfs aren't loaded
20:39:11  <FLHerne> un-decide that, then :p
20:39:13  <FLHerne> And add trams
20:39:34  <andythenorth> I can't undecide that :)
20:39:39  <andythenorth> I can only affect grf things
20:39:55  <andythenorth> also it seems immovable, because it might break existing grfs
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20:41:37  <andythenorth> so I could do a 'supported grfs' list
20:41:48  <andythenorth> I'll ask discord to vote which ones should be in
20:42:45  <nielsm> same thing I've suggested 3 times before: detect known working vehicle GRFs, if none are found then enable your built-in refit vehicles
20:43:03  <nielsm> and add a set of options to force-disable those built-in refit vehicles
20:43:24  <FLHerne> Please don't do that, it's the wrong solution :p
20:43:51  <FLHerne> You'll just swap "base vehicles don't work" for "<insert vehicle set> doesn't work"
20:44:30  <nielsm> why would that break vehicle sets?
20:44:46  <FLHerne> No, andy's suggestion
20:44:59  <nielsm> ok
20:44:59  <andythenorth> I'm going to just disable it unless a specific combo is found
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20:46:14  <andythenorth> can always patch it later with default vehicles
20:47:18  <andythenorth> hmm, I want to retcon FIRS 2 and 3 also
20:47:28  <andythenorth> not sure I have a compile environment for 2 anymore
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20:49:32  <andythenorth> wonder if I can also patch XIS and AuzInd
20:49:47  <andythenorth> give them the same list of grfs and some nml
20:50:38  <andythenorth> in fact, could we just give OpenTTD 2 lists (1) a list of the big industry set grfids (2) a list of the preferred vehicle grfs
20:50:52  <andythenorth> much easier for OpenTTD to maintain this than grf authors
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20:52:16  <peter1138> Weird inconsistencies. If you call SetFocusedWidget with an index that is larger than the number of widgets in a window, it returns false. If you call it with an index that is with-in range, but no widget exists, it asserts instead.
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20:53:50  <andythenorth> it would be very interesting to have a grf that can load a grf
20:53:59  <andythenorth> a bit turtles I guess :P
20:54:09  <andythenorth> but means a grf could be patched
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21:05:20  <andythenorth> hmm
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21:15:32  <glx> peter1138: it should assert in both case
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21:36:24  <andythenorth> hmm if FIRS only works with approved grfs
21:36:34  <andythenorth> people won't be able to dev a new grf without me approviing it
21:36:43  <andythenorth> that's not ideal
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21:47:28  <peter1138> Hmm, does ZeroedMemoryAllocator break C++ new?
21:50:31  <peter1138> Because there's a std::vector<int> scheduled_invalidation_data at the top of it...
21:50:40  <peter1138> ... at the top of Window, I mean.
21:57:47  <andythenorth> oof bedtime
21:57:54  <andythenorth> just played a tank game and missed every single shot
21:59:47  <peter1138> Terrible.
21:59:58  <peter1138> I didn't miss a single shot.
22:03:13  <andythenorth> you can stay up later then
22:04:59  <peter1138> I am.
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22:09:21  <andythenorth> goes it throw out grf?
22:09:28  * andythenorth trying to solve compatibility issues
22:09:39  <andythenorth> xml when?
22:16:04  <peter1138> json
22:16:08  <peter1138> Or was it ini?
22:16:21  <peter1138> 6502 emulator
22:16:40  <peter1138> LDA $callback
22:17:23  <peter1138> Eh...
22:17:23  <andythenorth> java applet
22:18:11  * andythenorth tries to remember what the objection was to giving default vehicles classes
22:18:22  <andythenorth> think it was objections plural
22:18:34  <andythenorth> wonder how many years back the logs go
22:19:23  <peter1138> It messes up any NewGRF that doesn't set them.
22:19:37  <peter1138> NewGRF expects them to be empty.
22:20:38  <andythenorth> ok
22:21:04  <andythenorth> so I wasn't just hallucinating that one
22:22:54  <andythenorth> so it goes fix it in grf somehow
22:23:02  <andythenorth> 'we can rebuild him'
22:23:06  <peter1138> There's no explicit "create a new engine" (except maybe by using an ID > 255, I guess)
22:23:20  <peter1138> Or rather, max ID for the type.
22:24:05  <peter1138> Everything with a valid ID is assumed to be a modification of the type. So sets that don't set classes on everything will not override the default values, and end up wrong.
22:24:41  <andythenorth> thanks, helps :)
22:25:44  * andythenorth will solve FIRS another day
22:25:47  <andythenorth> after sleeping
22:27:11  <peter1138> Don't sleep, that's silly.
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22:48:01  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] EratoNysiad opened issue #9115: [NewGRF] There's no way to make Pop-up error messages that don't disable NewGRFs
22:49:32  <peter1138> Casting an int to uint is a sneaky way of making -1 be >= nested_array_size...

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