Log for #openttd on 5th May 2021:
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05:03:46  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kiwitreekor updated pull request #9161: Feature: NewGRF Bridges without overriding
05:07:45  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kiwitreekor updated pull request #9161: Feature: NewGRF Bridges without overriding
05:11:50  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kiwitreekor updated pull request #9161: Feature: NewGRF Bridges without overriding
05:14:26  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kiwitreekor commented on pull request #9161: Feature: NewGRF Bridges without overriding
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06:42:02  <peter1138> Pom de pom de pom de terre
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07:19:23  <peter1138> chunky?
07:19:48  <andythenorth> in a good way
07:19:53  <peter1138> Like a Kitkat.
07:19:56  <LordAro> poe-tay-toes
07:19:59  <andythenorth> or a yorkie bar
07:20:05  <andythenorth> but without the 1970s advertising
07:20:16  <peter1138> Men only?
07:20:19  <andythenorth> that
07:20:27  <peter1138> What a bunch.
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07:22:31  <andythenorth> not for girls
07:25:04  <peter1138> Is a two-letter class name (abbreviated) bad form?
07:26:40  <LordAro> probably
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07:36:54  <Rubidium> especially if it is a "bad" abbreviation
07:47:32  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kiwitreekor updated pull request #9161: Feature: NewGRF Bridges without overriding
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09:08:25  <peter1138> Yay, priority changes again.
09:08:34  <TrueBrain> \o/
09:08:36  <TrueBrain> owh wait
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09:09:45  <TrueBrain> Dropping invalid packet from PacketInvalidData('more bytes than expected; remaining: ', 1)
09:09:47  <TrueBrain> awwwhhhh
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09:17:03  <LordAro> i like how there were more changes in the language files (size-wise) than the actual executable
09:17:07  <LordAro> on windows, anyway
09:17:34  <TrueBrain> that is how we roll, right? :D
09:17:54  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] wilkinsonhere opened issue #209: [ru_RU] Translator access request
09:18:54  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #9193: Cleanup: [Fluidsynth] Comply better with the coding style
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09:21:54  <peter1138> Snacky McSnackFace.
09:22:10  <TrueBrain> CONNECT FAILED for S1937789b489152b1e39f2f5b5397790f
09:22:13  <TrueBrain> okay, that works again :D
09:24:01  <peter1138> Stunning.
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09:27:11  <TrueBrain> don't TURN on me now!
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09:27:59  <TrueBrain> could not bind socket: Address already in use .. hmm ... that is odd ... I do set SO_REUSEPORT .. lets investigate!
09:28:41  <TrueBrain> lol .. doing that after bind()
09:28:43  <TrueBrain> yeah, smart
09:28:54  <LordAro> lol
09:29:23  <TrueBrain> connection refused, that is more like it
09:30:10  <TrueBrain> w00p, works again :D
09:30:50  <TrueBrain> I still cannot believe this actually works, I have to admit :P
09:31:10  <TrueBrain> right .. that was for the connect/connect scenario
09:31:17  <TrueBrain> guess I should also add accept/connect and connect/accept
09:31:39  <TrueBrain> I have no stats in how many cases that is going to help
09:31:47  <TrueBrain> could be zero
09:40:56  <Heiki> “Max. speed: 100 km p/h” interesting unit there
09:41:30  <TrueBrain> there is this lovely "edit" button for you to address your OCD hit :D
09:43:31  <Heiki> I assume “km/h” is the most correct one for modern English?
09:44:33  <TrueBrain> I would assume the same .. but no expert :)
09:45:43  <Heiki> fixed it (:
09:46:28  <TrueBrain> cheers :)
10:23:50  <TrueBrain> Showing with 1,683 additions and 723 deletions.
10:23:57  <TrueBrain> at least adding STUN also removes tons of stuff :P
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10:39:54  <peter1138> Fixed it -> " Resource names and energy types when used as items in a list. "
11:26:19  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] jmarcher opened issue #210: [es_ES] Translator access request
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11:53:17  <andythenorth> yo
11:53:21  <andythenorth> who designed GS? :)
11:55:16  <TrueBrain> you looking for a fight? :P
11:55:47  <andythenorth> oh it was you then?
11:56:05  <andythenorth> I think I might have consumed some fake news
11:56:06  <andythenorth> send help
11:56:13  <TrueBrain> :D
11:56:22  <TrueBrain> GS was an accident by all means, I doubt it can be considered "designed"
11:56:34  <TrueBrain> after NoAI it was deduced that it could also work for a deity entity
11:57:14  <TrueBrain> a (very poorly) copy/paste later, and GS existed
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11:59:38  <peter1138> With extensions and APIs to be designed later...
12:00:06  <TrueBrain> "and it grew organically from there" :P
12:00:23  <TrueBrain> in general I think it is fair to say OpenTTD has no real "design" :P
12:00:45  <TrueBrain> things just exist .. and there is a common opinion on what it should/shouldn't do
12:00:49  <TrueBrain> which changes every N time :P
12:00:56  <peter1138> Remember when people demanded roadmaps?
12:01:04  <TrueBrain> remember we had them?! :P
12:01:09  <TrueBrain> those were such a joke :D
12:01:30  <TrueBrain>
12:01:31  <TrueBrain> LOL
12:01:55  <TrueBrain> it was more a "I am working on this feature" list :P
12:01:59  <andythenorth> I sometimes do roadmaps at work
12:02:00  <andythenorth> then we have
12:02:06  <andythenorth> * urgent sales needs
12:02:19  <andythenorth> * unplanned third party library changes or vulns
12:02:24  <andythenorth> * operational issues
12:02:26  <andythenorth> * mistakes
12:02:31  <andythenorth> * changes of staffing
12:02:37  <andythenorth> * adjustments of priorities
12:02:44  <andythenorth> 'Events'
12:03:05  <Timberwolf> Hah. I mostly do roadmaps to give me some blocks to move around when someone asks, "but can we do x?"
12:03:40  <TrueBrain> any sane product owner will have a roadmap of sorts (depending on your development strategy)
12:03:44  <TrueBrain> even any sane product manager has
12:03:46  <Timberwolf> It seems to make a much more productive discussion when you go, "sure, so we can put it here and that pushes back multiple warehouses per seller to July, or we could move..."
12:03:55  <TrueBrain> but for Open Source ... it is just a bunch of bull
12:04:31  <TrueBrain> you cannot prioritize free labor :D
12:04:52  <andythenorth> and yet we made a roadmap for 'rewrite wiki' and 'fix website' and 'do cmake'
12:04:53  <andythenorth> and crap
12:04:59  <andythenorth> funny things roadmaps
12:05:00  <Rubidium> I've got a lot of track maps, do those count?
12:05:03  <andythenorth> I hate them, and I have them
12:05:10  <TrueBrain> (5th of May is "bevreidingsdag" .. euh .. the day we celebrate we are "free", so I am in a free mood :P)
12:05:38  <andythenorth> is it lunchtime?
12:05:43  <TrueBrain> bit late, but sure
12:07:01  <andythenorth> lunch!
12:07:12  <peter1138> I had salad and fresh bread!
12:07:18  <peter1138> nomnomn
12:07:30  <LordAro> i had a bacon and cheese toastie
12:07:36  <TrueBrain> I had egg
12:07:38  <LordAro> because it's my birthday and i can
12:07:38  <Timberwolf> I should go make some lunch.
12:07:40  <andythenorth> I am slow today
12:07:44  <TrueBrain> gratz LordAro :)
12:07:45  <andythenorth> you've all lunched
12:07:50  <TrueBrain> where is the cake?
12:08:02  <LordAro> 🎂
12:08:11  <TrueBrain> \o/ \o/
12:09:13  <Timberwolf> It feels like an unexpectedly small gap between Bevreidingsdag and VE Day.
12:09:14  <andythenorth> cheese on toast again then?
12:10:00  <TrueBrain> VE?
12:10:09  <peter1138> Hmm, heating has come on
12:10:18  <peter1138> I bet the dogs did not shut the door again.
12:10:19  <Timberwolf> This is the UK equivalent(ish), marking end of WW2 in Europe.
12:10:30  <Timberwolf> 8th May.
12:10:45  <TrueBrain> "Liberation Day" is the correct translation, I see
12:11:04  <TrueBrain> but yeah, it is the day The Netherlands was set free of those pesky Germans back in the day :)
12:11:09  <TrueBrain> (sorry, no offense meant :P)
12:11:22  <TrueBrain> so it is not by accident that those dates are so close :)
12:11:54  <Timberwolf> I think because the way it's taught (at least when I was at school) implies there was a sort of linear progression from Normandy to Berlin, liberating things as it went.
12:11:58  <TrueBrain> we were just a bit early to the party :)
12:12:29  <TrueBrain> 8th of May Hitler committed suicide, not?
12:12:39  <TrueBrain> marking the end of WW2 by doing so
12:13:06  <LordAro> no, that was a few days before
12:13:18  <Timberwolf> 8th is the notification of surrender.
12:13:31  <Timberwolf> Which I discovered, thanks to timezones, is the 9th in Russia and parts of Eastern Europe.
12:13:39  <peter1138> When you typo "," as "<" and it doesn't warn on compile.
12:14:01  <andythenorth> covid jab saturday then
12:14:07  <andythenorth> wonder if I'll get AZ
12:15:06  <peter1138> Mine is Sunday.
12:15:16  <peter1138> And I think AZ is the norm.
12:15:31  <LordAro> etc
12:15:34  <TrueBrain> <- mind the "Behind NAT" part :)
12:15:48  <andythenorth> strictly speaking, I have consistent low platelet count with no known medical cause, which _might_ be a risk with AZ, but the data set is too small to know
12:15:50  <andythenorth> 'yolo'
12:16:28  <LordAro> also
12:16:30  <andythenorth> anyway, if I disappear, either I'm dead, or I rage quit
12:16:45  <LordAro> :<
12:17:10  <TrueBrain> lol @ 2454
12:17:18  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: that is rather unrelated to vaccine, isn't it? :)
12:17:30  <peter1138> andythenorth, okay but quad-size with chunky bevels looks... well, normal...
12:17:45  <peter1138> (Ridiculous on non-4K)
12:18:24  <andythenorth> peter1138 I like what I saw
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12:18:32  <andythenorth> the thin lines disturb me small-ly
12:18:43  <andythenorth> goes it...
12:18:46  <peter1138> TrueBrain's new multiplayer list works absolutely fine. That is almost disappointing.
12:19:02  <TrueBrain> I am sorry :(
12:19:18  <TrueBrain> I will give you more work next time
12:27:53  <peter1138> Maybe I need to add some glitter.
12:28:28  <glx> hmm now I think about it, but when I started the test server for your early "invite" version, I can't remember if I changed port or kept default one
12:28:45  <peter1138> I think port is irrelevant.
12:29:09  <glx> default port is open in my router
12:29:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #9161: Feature: NewGRF Bridges without overriding
12:29:41  <glx> (for ipv4)
12:30:35  <TrueBrain> glx: that was completely ignored
12:30:39  <TrueBrain> it never attempted to use that port
12:31:16  <TrueBrain> I tend to leave those things not to chance :P
12:31:21  <glx> ah it uses whatever port is used to connect to GC
12:31:27  <TrueBrain> nope
12:31:30  <TrueBrain> it used a random port
12:32:01  <TrueBrain> different every connecti :)
12:32:13  <glx> and of course for ipv6 there's no NAT, so only windows firewall is concerned
12:32:28  <TrueBrain> it never tried IPv6 :P
12:33:21  <TrueBrain> I have yet to test how that works :D
12:33:41  <glx> but if I try now I guess it will show direct connection
12:34:06  <glx> unless I set it to a non open port
12:34:07  <TrueBrain> nah, the GC doesn't support that yet :P
12:34:11  <TrueBrain> it forces STUN :)
12:34:21  <TrueBrain> but if everything is done
12:34:29  <TrueBrain> yes, it will use direct connect :)
12:34:47  <TrueBrain> sorry, I am trolling a tiny bit :D It is just one of those days :)
12:35:01  <glx> will be a good (and easy for me) test to do when it's ready
12:35:02  <TrueBrain> but yes, when this is all done, using a port-forwarded port will mean GC will always prefer that
12:35:05  <TrueBrain> as it is much more likely to work
12:35:18  <TrueBrain> connect/connect via STUN next
12:35:23  <TrueBrain> accept/connect, connect/accept
12:35:28  <TrueBrain> and if all fails and enabled, TURN
12:36:14  <TrueBrain> and if dualstack, it will try IPv6 first, IPv4 at every step
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12:43:58  <TrueBrain> once you have a change in english.txt in your PR-set
12:44:05  <TrueBrain> rebasing becomes such an expensive thing to do
12:44:05  <TrueBrain> ugh
12:44:36  <LordAro> not really any way of avoiding it though
12:44:50  <LordAro> not a lot of files that don't use STR_ in some way
12:44:53  <TrueBrain> I understand why, but I wish CMake / Makefile had something more clever for it
12:45:02  <TrueBrain> as in, the file didn't really change
12:45:06  <TrueBrain> just the rebase changed the mtime
12:45:49  <LordAro> mm
12:45:51  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9017: WIP: allow multiplayer without port forwarding
12:45:59  <TrueBrain> still not done ^^, but the code should mostly be clean now
12:46:03  <TrueBrain> so there is that
12:47:55  <LordAro> :)
12:55:23  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9017: WIP: allow multiplayer without port forwarding
12:57:44  <TrueBrain> I only started working on this 24 days ago? It feels like a lifetime, lol
13:00:24  <LordAro> it does seem longer ago than that
13:01:02  <TrueBrain> well, I guess 2 days earlier or so, as the PR was created after the code was written, but yeah .. still
13:19:33  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #9194: Cleanup: Leftover static const variable from a3b356e
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13:43:50  <peter1138> Oh god what a horrible query. And I can even hide it behind a view because it requires parameters.
13:48:49  <nielsm> stored procedure time
14:03:38  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #9193: Cleanup: [Fluidsynth] Comply better with the coding style
14:05:09  <peter1138> I hope not.
14:10:08  <peter1138> Anyone fancy a quick project...?
14:20:01  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 approved pull request #9194: Cleanup: Leftover static const variable from a3b356e
14:26:23  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #9192: Codechange: [Network] More std::string with less code
14:32:44  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #9194: Cleanup: Leftover static const variable from a3b356e
14:33:17  <TrueBrain> <- some questions are cute :)
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14:33:26  <TrueBrain> too bad you cannot embed images in Steam Discussions
14:33:40  <LordAro> it's not exactly super obvious
14:33:47  <LordAro> oh wait, stations
14:33:50  <LordAro> yeah, that's obvious :p
14:33:54  <TrueBrain> if you don't read, it is not obvious
14:33:56  <TrueBrain> :D
14:35:36  <_dp_> kinda feel like it should just always show it
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14:59:28  <peter1138> P'raps
14:59:43  <peter1138> I remember all that work I put in to change it and very little actually changed :p
15:03:55  <TrueBrain> NetworkAddress is such a joy to work with (sarcasm) .. it mixes two usage (connect vs listen), but both do not implement everything
15:04:11  <LordAro> maybe you should fix it
15:04:11  <TrueBrain> for example, I create a NetworkAddress via a sockaddr_in, and run Listen on it
15:04:19  <TrueBrain> it completely ignores that value
15:04:23  <TrueBrain> as it expects a hostname + port
15:04:28  <TrueBrain> which is all the current usages of Listen
15:04:35  <TrueBrain> so it is not wrong .... but it is misleading at best
15:04:47  <TrueBrain> LordAro: what do you think I have been doing?! :P
15:05:17  <LordAro> complaining about it!
15:05:33  <TrueBrain> since when did any of our complaining stop us from fixing anything? :P
15:06:27  <LordAro> all that time spent typing all that out :p
15:06:55  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kiwitreekor updated pull request #9161: Feature: NewGRF Bridges without overriding
15:06:58  <TrueBrain> in an attempt to stay sane ... it is hard
15:07:55  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kiwitreekor commented on pull request #9161: Feature: NewGRF Bridges without overriding
15:08:23  <LordAro> :p
15:09:35  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9017: WIP: allow multiplayer without port forwarding
15:19:18  <peter1138> Can DorpsGek learn how to rate-limit updates on individual requests? ;-)
15:24:30  <TrueBrain> "individual requests", what do you mean?
15:28:07  <TrueBrain> funny, accept/connect scenario doesn't work .. lol ..
15:28:11  <TrueBrain> well, lets not implement it in that case :D
15:28:12  <TrueBrain> I can do that!
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15:30:36  <TrueBrain> it has to be a accept+connect/connect, which is very similar to connect+connect
15:30:42  <TrueBrain> so that is not going to help any NATs that prevent that
15:51:37  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9017: WIP: allow multiplayer without port forwarding
15:54:19  <TrueBrain> orudge: ah, GOG contract is finally there :P
15:54:26  <TrueBrain> seems a free game is a bit unusual for them :D
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16:07:27  <frosch123> hoi mammals :)
16:07:42  <LordAro> quaks
16:10:59  <Rubidium> moin
16:14:42  <FLHerne> They've promised to pay you 70% of all the nonexistent revenues or something?
16:15:26  <frosch123> FLHerne: we cannot confirm or deny that
16:16:08  <FLHerne> They've promised to pay you 70% of all the nonexistent revenues provided you sign an NDA that says you can't tell anyone?
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16:32:03  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kiwitreekor updated pull request #9161: Feature: NewGRF Bridges without overriding
16:37:55  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kiwitreekor updated pull request #9161: Feature: NewGRF Bridges without overriding
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17:07:43  <peter1138> Hmm, I guess if test on the same trigger twice in 1 chain then it still counts.
17:17:23  <peter1138> Seems to compile, I guess... deploy? :p
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17:19:10  <TrueBrain> Yes
17:24:25  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #9195: Fix: Iterate over all stacked vehicle sprites when evaluating random triggers.
17:25:31  <frosch123> haha, stupid randomaction2 :) we should document the trigger-callback instead of this werid "it changes in the sprite chain"
17:25:42  <peter1138> It's not a trigger callack
17:25:44  <peter1138> *callback
17:26:37  <peter1138> It's a... weird expectation that randomact2 users expect it will just works.
17:26:40  <peter1138> -s
17:27:30  <peter1138> Anyway, if you use randomaction2 within one of your subsprites (which is reasonable) then it would be nice if it would retrigger.
17:27:44  <peter1138> The 'work-around' as for stations should also work, of course.
17:28:34  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 opened pull request #9196: Change: [Network] Update NetworkGameInfo only when needed
17:30:20  <peter1138> Of course the main reason it isn't a callback is that you don't need to return a callback result...
17:32:00  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #9195: Fix: Iterate over all stacked vehicle sprites when evaluating random triggers.
17:34:08  <peter1138> What crazy system we "stole"...
17:34:08  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #9195: Fix: Iterate over all stacked vehicle sprites when evaluating random triggers.
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17:35:39  <frosch123> i actually want to add this to nml
17:36:35  <frosch123> remove/deprecate "random_action" from nml, and instead use va2 var 5F to read random bits, and define rerandomisation for specific bits/triggers in some other place
17:37:16  <frosch123> that also has the nice side effect that it gets rid of the insanely complicated "dependant"/"independant" logic in nml
17:37:39  <frosch123> s/random_action/random_switch/ such terminology :p
17:38:04  <peter1138> It is not... the simplest of designs.
17:38:12  <peter1138> I wonder what Patchman was smoking.
17:38:30  <frosch123> oh, it's just the result of changing it 3 times
17:39:02  <frosch123> RA2 for vehicle parent scope is the funniest part. it reads the bits from the front engine, but rerandomised the bits of the self engine
17:39:49  <frosch123> i think the specs now say "don't use triggers with vehicle parent scope" :p
17:41:22  <FLHerne> frosch123: You can already read var 5F in NML, it's `random_bits`
17:41:52  <frosch123> FLHerne: yes, and i advertise that to andy constantly :) don't use "random_switch"
17:42:03  <FLHerne> (of course, there's no check for whether doing so overlaps with a random_switch)
17:42:25  <peter1138> There is no overlap, it's just testing bits.
17:43:02  <frosch123> FLHerne: nml auto-assigning random bits is a misfeature. such stuff only works if there are plenty of resources. with just 8 random bits, it only results in misery
17:43:06  <peter1138> Randomization should have been "this trigger happened, what bits do you want to change?"
17:43:15  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep updated pull request #8480: Feature: Multitile depots
17:43:17  <frosch123> if you only have 8 bits, you have to assign the manually :)
17:43:37  <FLHerne> Yeah, you're probably right
17:44:40  <frosch123> peter1138: industry production also has a special result value. it's also called "production callback" despite not being a "callback with callback results"
17:44:51  <peter1138> Yeah
17:45:12  <peter1138> Create a new callback result type. "bits to randomize"
17:45:17  <frosch123> so, it's just wording to call the rerandomisation a callback with it's result split over multiple actions
17:45:21  <peter1138> deprecate randomaction2
17:46:17  <peter1138> Yeah, just in a randomaction2 chain you'll probably get sprite groups returned, which for a callback is a failure.
17:47:07  <frosch123> yes, so for a "randomisation result" you need a "dummy action1 + multiple RA2 which chain to each other"
17:47:46  <frosch123> nml also generates dummy action1s to provide "return CB_FAILED"
17:48:01  <peter1138> NML is lovely.
17:48:22  <frosch123> hmm, not sure whether it actually needs a dummy action1, maybe it's just a dummy action2..."
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17:48:56  <arikover> hello!
17:48:57  <peter1138> So basically codify the spec to say it's a callback 1 chain, and therefore none of this other stuff should be expected to cause rerandomization..
17:48:58  <frosch123> <- ah, both needed
17:49:19  <peter1138> (but might, due to compatibility)
17:50:49  <frosch123> peter1138: yes, though it can also be marketed as "cheap optimisation trick": if you only rerandomise in the sprite chain, you can share the same chain for sprites and cb1 via the "default" case.
17:51:17  <peter1138> Heh
17:54:34  <peter1138> Well...
17:55:46  <peter1138> I guess also document that re-randomization will never occur during a callback chain.
17:55:54  <peter1138> Because that seemed to surprise MB.
17:56:27  <frosch123> oh, people complained about that countless times before
17:56:41  <peter1138> It was him before, looking at an 8 year old thread.
17:56:56  <frosch123> we always told them: duplicate the RA2 into the sprite chain, and make all cases the same
17:57:21  <frosch123> ah forums. no idea :) but people also asked on irc
17:59:21  <peter1138> he wrote "IMO, this would look like a conceptual flaw." 8 years ago. Yes. Yes it is.
18:01:36  <peter1138> Okay, shall I close this PR in case it gets anyone's hopes up? :D
18:04:13  <frosch123> make a nml PR instead :p
18:05:00  <peter1138> nmlc is gobbledygook to me.
18:05:33  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN closed pull request #9195: Fix: Iterate over all stacked vehicle sprites when evaluating random triggers.
18:05:34  <frosch123> i read the python 3.9 changelog today. most of it is about expanding type annotations. somehow that is funny to me :p
18:05:49  <peter1138> Damn, it's still visible :/
18:06:55  <frosch123> haha, even "garble your branch and force-push" won't work. GH now shows the diff from previous push :p
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18:19:59  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9196: Change: [Network] Update NetworkGameInfo only when needed
18:20:46  <FLHerne> Deprecate NML?
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18:35:34  <frosch123> FLHerne: we both have the chance to write something and call it "fml" :)
18:36:56  <FLHerne> hah
18:37:03  <FLHerne> There's already that other thing
18:37:11  <FLHerne> YAGL
18:37:28  <peter1138> Deprecate NewGRF.
18:40:11  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rexxars commented on issue #9179: "Input lag" on MacOS long-click since 1.11.0-beta2
18:40:14  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #9196: Change: [Network] Update NetworkGameInfo only when needed
18:40:56  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #9196: Change: [Network] Update NetworkGameInfo only when needed
18:58:28  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
18:58:29  <DorpsGek>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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19:01:27  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #9196: Change: [Network] Update NetworkGameInfo only when needed
19:02:50  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] frosch123 commented on issue #205: [cs_CZ] Translator access request
19:03:16  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] frosch123 commented on issue #208: [sk_SK] Translator access request
19:03:39  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] frosch123 commented on issue #209: [ru_RU] Translator access request
19:04:25  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] frosch123 commented on issue #210: [es_ES] Translator access request
19:11:18  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #9197: Codechange: use connection_string in favour of NetworkAddress
19:11:29  <TrueBrain> and this PR kills my STUN PR :P
19:11:36  <TrueBrain> lot of merge conflicts ahead :D
19:12:43  <TrueBrain> LordAro: so instead of solving that NetworkAddress cannot be a const, I am just removing its usage as much as possible :P Works too, not? :D
19:14:53  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9197: Codechange: use connection_string in favour of NetworkAddress
19:18:04  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #9128: Codechange: use std::string exclusively for settings
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19:42:34  <supermop_Home_> hello
19:44:11  <andythenorth> hi :)
19:50:02  <supermop_Home_> so bridges?
19:50:42  <supermop_Home_> default vehicle cargoes?
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20:12:52  <FLHerne> supermop_Home_: The latter one is basically due to andy holding FIRS users to ransom :p
20:19:24  <andythenorth>  'ransom' you say
20:19:41  <andythenorth> "immune from errors they don't understand" I say :P
20:19:55  <andythenorth> outcome was good anyway
20:20:29  <FLHerne> Yeah, but now there's a precedent
20:21:20  <FLHerne> You can say that Horse will refuse to load until someone invents working timetables, because untimetabled trains are an abomination unto Sawyer
20:21:51  <FLHerne> (I can't remember...did originalTTD have timetables at all? Doubt it)
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20:24:04  <andythenorth> I'd have to sock puppet a load of reports
20:26:08  <peter1138> Wat
20:27:12  <andythenorth> I'd need a lot of steam accounts
20:27:19  <andythenorth> registering for steam once was enough thanks
20:31:24  <Timberwolf> original TTD didn't even have shared orders.
20:31:43  <Timberwolf> Or clone vehucle.
20:35:29  <Rubidium> you didn't need that for the few vehicles you could have ;)
20:35:34  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #9197: Codechange: use connection_string in favour of NetworkAddress
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20:58:07  <supermop_Home_> hmm need limes for margs
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21:21:18  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #9197: Codechange: use connection_string in favour of NetworkAddress
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21:36:26  <frosch123> how odd, someone wrote a qt based ide for nml?
21:36:41  <frosch123> i expected a plugin for vscode or eclipse
21:38:28  <LordAro> hmm
21:39:47  <frosch123> i forgot the name of the other gui guy
21:40:19  <frosch123> LordAro: nothing new. that's the status for years
21:40:40  <frosch123> i think pelya does not want to maintain the android port any longer
21:40:53  <frosch123> so, they are looking for integrating things
21:41:05  <frosch123> but well, I am no interested in a mobile port either
21:41:31  <LordAro> possible
21:42:49  <frosch123> there was this interesting concept. pelya added a tutorial into the game, which opens yt videos in a browser
21:43:01  <LordAro> i think it'd be nice to have
21:43:04  <frosch123> some pelya recorded themself, some were by some other guy
21:43:09  <LordAro> but in its current form? probably not
21:43:24  <frosch123> but, for me they mostly showed what a bad idea it is to play ottd on touch :p
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21:44:03  <LordAro> should look into how well TTD-mobile (actually Lomo) works
21:44:07  <LordAro> might have some ideas there
21:44:20  <frosch123> oh, yes, the idea to link to tutorial videos is great. but i have yet to find any tutorial video, that is really good
21:44:37  <TrueBrain> to me playing OpenTTD on such devices always sounds like putting a square peg in a round hole :P
21:45:08  <frosch123> all tutorials i watched, had some weird part in them
21:45:52  <andythenorth> but Apple
21:45:57  <andythenorth> hmm
21:46:18  <andythenorth> iPad with keyboard and trackpad or pencil would be...fine
21:46:21  <andythenorth> but Apple
21:46:51  <TrueBrain> I had to double check the post LordAro linked was recent
21:47:00  <TrueBrain> as .. it suggests the 2x and 4x interface size feature is recent
21:48:14  <TrueBrain> my problem with all his points are that they are all aimed for small devices only; it shows no route how they can co-exist (without the obvious solution of adding yet-another-setting)
21:48:23  <LordAro> mm
21:48:26  <TrueBrain> I think several of these problems can be tackled differently that they work for both platforms
21:48:44  <LordAro> could have a certain amount of "if resolution < [amount]", like css and all that
21:48:48  <LordAro> but... eh#
21:48:50  <TrueBrain> for example
21:48:59  <TrueBrain> but also something like a "build confirmation dialog"
21:49:02  <TrueBrain> great for small devices
21:49:06  <TrueBrain> rubbish for any other
21:49:53  <LordAro> i'm still not sure what he saw in the "window ornaments"
21:50:00  <LordAro> i can't imagine them looking good in any situation
21:50:24  <TrueBrain> personal taste?
21:50:25  <TrueBrain> dunno
21:51:35  <TrueBrain> anyway, I love that he maintains a android version .. just the way it is done is hard for me to see any of these points being included upstream (with the exception of tutorials, ofc)
21:52:05  <TrueBrain> which might be a bit sad, but it also shows that the changes he made are exactly in line with the intend: android devices :)
21:52:47  <frosch123> the tutorials are android specific
21:53:06  <TrueBrain> the idea of tutorials :)
21:53:10  <TrueBrain> you just went over this ;)
21:53:21  <frosch123> anyway, the most fascinating part of the android port is: there is not enough room for all toolbar buttons, so some were dropped/combined
21:53:23  <orudge> I still remember the original TT/TTD tutorials
21:53:42  <frosch123> the selection for the latter is interesting
21:53:48  <LordAro> i'd rather a builtin GS-based tutorial than just linking to some youtube video
21:54:05  <TrueBrain> ^^
21:55:17  <LordAro> hmmm
21:55:24  <LordAro> i mean, i guess
21:56:02  <frosch123> LordAro: yes, that's what i meant, the forum has screenshots
21:56:08  <LordAro> yeah
21:56:18  <TrueBrain> orudge: I love how the "reply" icon is over the "online" wrapper on the forum :P
21:56:26  <LordAro> i'm just being judgemental about the code quality :p
21:56:27  <TrueBrain> I had to modify the HTML to see what it said :D
21:57:23  <LordAro> nothing overlapping that i can see?
21:57:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #9128: Codechange: use std::string exclusively for settings
21:57:35  <orudge> TrueBrain: ah, yes, I think that came about because we switched the sidebar from the right side (where phpBB defaulted it to in 3.x) to the left side
21:57:52  <TrueBrain> LordAro:
21:58:17  <LordAro> i don't see that angled thing at all
21:58:24  <TrueBrain> only on people that are online
21:58:26  <TrueBrain> which orudge just was
21:58:38  <TrueBrain> on the topic you just linked, it shows me that
21:58:40  <LordAro> ah yes
21:58:44  <milek7> LordAro: "TT-mobile" works slightly better because it uses rollercoaster-style building (ie. click next segment type to build)
21:59:02  <LordAro> TrueBrain: i linked it 20 minutes ago!
21:59:11  <LordAro> and orudge's response wasn't there then!
21:59:15  <TrueBrain> well, if 2x/4x interface zoom is recent ....
21:59:16  <TrueBrain> :D
21:59:35  <TrueBrain> just move a bit faster, time becomes more relative that way
22:00:02  <TrueBrain> and remember: if something turns blue, time to duck! (as it is heading your way)
22:00:46  <TrueBrain> owh, I miss nerd jokes so much ...
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22:04:03  <LordAro> TrueBrain: u phuny
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22:28:27  <peter1138> 2x/4x is just a hack of course
22:28:44  <peter1138> Sorry, no
22:28:48  <peter1138> "sloppy workaround"
22:29:03  <peter1138> 3x would be useful mind you.
22:29:22  <peter1138> My scaling slider fixes that, though introduces a few... issues.
22:30:00  <peter1138> " This patch touches almost every game dialog, and changes several dialogs to have horizontal layout to better fit wide-screen phones. "
22:30:03  <peter1138> Is a huge issue...
22:30:34  <peter1138> I do have some games on my phone, but I play them in portrait because landscape is too annoying a small phone.
22:30:43  <peter1138> (S7 is small now, I guess)
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