Log for #openttd on 7th June 2021:
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06:21:35  <LordAro> ottdc seems unhappy
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07:21:30  <TrueBrain> poor ottdc :(
07:25:26  <TrueBrain> <- first post is funny :) After that it kinda derails in 2 people fighting, but what-ever
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07:54:14  <peter1138> "aBase ... has been abandoned. Try zBase instead..." Uhhh
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08:27:33  <TrueBrain> Broken savegame - Invalid town name generator
08:27:35  <TrueBrain> that's new :D
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08:34:02  <andythenorth> rah
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08:38:22  <peter1138> ra rapsutin?
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08:46:29  <EER> lover of the russian queen?
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08:53:13  <Timberwolf> I like "when we played this back in 1994... no tutorial, no information to read..."
08:53:40  <andythenorth> printed manual :P
08:53:50  <Timberwolf> And tutorials!
08:54:48  <Timberwolf> They were pretty rudimentary, but gave a rough clue.
08:56:36  <Timberwolf> I guess if you played the early demo versions you had no manual or tutorials.
08:59:20  <EER> I started with the demo where you could only build trains, when I finally got the full game I only built trucks, that would teach those AIs who had been building trucks all along in the demo while I couldn't! I don't remember any tutorials, but the printed manual I remember was quite thick so probably covered most things relevant
09:14:32  <Timberwolf> Oh yes, of course! I'd forgotten the demo was trains-only. (At least, the one I had). I was so badly looking forward to release day when I could play with road vehicles :)
09:31:44  <TrueBrain> ha, town have headers \o/ Okay, this actually works .. w00p
09:31:47  <TrueBrain> now to do the other chunks
09:33:33  <andythenorth> \o/
09:36:01  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9322: Add: store table header for each chunk in savegame
09:36:56  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9322: Add: store table header for each chunk in savegame
09:38:58  <TrueBrain> now the question is: can I do it with the rest too :D
09:41:19  <TrueBrain> .env/bin/python -m savegame_reader test.sav --export-json | jq '.CITY.items[].ratings[0]'
09:41:26  <TrueBrain> allows me to see the rating of company 0 of all towns now :D
09:47:28  <TrueBrain> ugh .. that moment GCC accepts something clang/MSVC don't
09:49:28  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9322: Add: store table header for each chunk in savegame
09:52:05  <TrueBrain> error: no template named 'optional' in namespace 'std'
09:52:06  <TrueBrain> ....
09:55:33  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code
09:56:45  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9322: Add: store table header for each chunk in savegame
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09:59:55  <TrueBrain> <- I think we can all identify with this :)
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10:38:39  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: maybe convert the game/script chunks to be a table with a json-blob text field for the script's own saved data.
10:38:54  <peter1138> I guess I need to read up on what a CH_TABLE is...
10:41:14  <peter1138> Does this make a savegame self-describing?
10:42:12  <peter1138> +2548-827 is scary
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11:18:54  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: feel free :P But that is not on my list. I am fine with how it is currently stored :)
11:20:02  <TrueBrain> peter1138: it indeed does. And most of those lines are "compat" tables, to "add" a header for old savegames :)
11:20:37  <TrueBrain> 1106 of those lines are for only that :D
11:21:52  <peter1138> Did you intend to go this far or just get carried away?
11:22:00  <TrueBrain> I wanted to do it only for settings
11:22:17  <TrueBrain> as that is what I needed :)
11:43:25  <peter1138> Scope, eh?
11:43:42  <TrueBrain> sometimes you fall in a pit ..:P
11:43:45  <TrueBrain> but I don't mind thisone
11:43:50  <TrueBrain> the result is pretty cool
11:43:59  <peter1138> No but if it makes the PR massive it's awkward.
11:44:08  <TrueBrain> that is why there are several PRs :)
11:44:14  <TrueBrain> I just cannot make a PR to a PR ..
11:44:16  <TrueBrain> which is annoying
11:44:27  <TrueBrain> there are really only 3 commits in that PR
11:44:31  <TrueBrain> the rest is all in other PRs :P
11:45:09  <TrueBrain> keeping things revieable is always difficult with these kind of things .. mainly as it requires at least 2 people to understand the SaveLoad code :D
11:45:30  <peter1138> hmm
11:49:50  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code
11:51:41  <TrueBrain> LordAro: did you now seriously comment the same thing on the same variable? :P I cannot rename one without the other :D
11:52:10  <TrueBrain> haha, I was wondering why I couldn't submit my comment :P
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11:52:23  <LordAro> i deleted it seconds after submitting :p
11:52:27  <TrueBrain> now GitHub is utterly confused :D
11:52:28  <LordAro> not my fault you're too fast
11:52:47  <TrueBrain> I can no longer comment on things :D
11:52:49  <TrueBrain> it says I have a pending review
11:52:51  <TrueBrain> of nothing :D
11:52:51  <TrueBrain> lol
11:52:59  <TrueBrain> WE BROKE IT! :D
11:53:09  <TrueBrain> found a workaround
11:53:20  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code
12:02:10  <TrueBrain> Broken savegame - Referencing invalid Vehicle
12:02:13  <TrueBrain> bah .. what did I break ..
12:39:12  <TrueBrain> w00p, it works :D
12:39:21  <TrueBrain> being able to embed structs in structs really does help for readability etc
12:45:53  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #9339: Codechange: add and use the ability to store (lists of) structs in savegames
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13:01:13  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I kinda want to make it SLE_COND_REFLIST .. but that _ after COND would be new :P
13:02:59  <TrueBrain> maybe after all this I do a pass on these kind of things
13:03:02  <TrueBrain> as this breaks all patches anyway
13:04:58  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code
13:08:17  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code
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16:47:51  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 approved pull request #9335: Codechange: make [Save|Load]Settings() behave more like other Save/Load code
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17:53:53  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code
18:06:27  <andythenorth> oof
18:06:30  * andythenorth refactoring
18:06:39  <andythenorth> slow test runner is slow
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18:17:43  <andythenorth> I have some comments
18:18:15  <andythenorth> x.gif is a lot hard to search for than, e.g. remove_icon.gif, or remove_item.gif or x_icon_red.gif
18:18:53  * andythenorth is still dealing with misguided 'optimisation' approaches that were outdated when they were applied 15 years ago
18:18:58  <andythenorth>  not by me
18:19:04  <andythenorth> but still my responsibility
18:19:33  <andythenorth> let's optimise the number of characters in static assets, that's surely going to make us faster and more loved
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18:20:54  * Rubidium used to do that in VB6
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18:21:42  <andythenorth> 1991
18:21:43  <andythenorth> ?
18:22:09  <Rubidium> not that early ;)
18:22:33  <andythenorth> it's a pattern from either (1) I work solo, so it doesn't matter (2) I have never ever refactored anything ever (3) I genuinely believe it's faster because I read something from google about url size affecting http transfer times
18:22:46  <andythenorth> or (4) I literally don't have any better ideas
18:23:16  <andythenorth> we still have "var a; var b; var m;" etc in very old code
18:23:20  <andythenorth> so much rage it causes me
18:23:42  <andythenorth> but someone believed the javascript performance would be significantly approved, in download time and run time
18:24:05  <Rubidium> though definitely in that decade, somewhen not long after primary school
18:24:20  <andythenorth> this is also the least likely stuff to get refactored, because searching doing a find and replace on 'a' is a non-starter :D
18:24:26  <andythenorth> stuck with it for life
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18:25:37  <frosch123> there are two groups at work: one group wants to replace the homegrown build system with cmake, the other group wants to add tcl support to the homegrown system :p
18:26:19  <andythenorth> are you a third group?
18:26:34  <andythenorth> group 3: looking on linkedin for jobs
18:26:41  <andythenorth> oh wait, no engineer ever does that :D
18:27:53  <frosch123> yeah, group 3: watching with popcorn
18:33:03  <andythenorth> group 4: wondering if spending more on AWS makes the test runner faster
18:33:06  * andythenorth killing time here
18:33:52  <Rubidium> andythenorth: it probably would, just a question of how much you need to spend to make it significantly faster
18:34:06  <andythenorth> got to fund those rocket trips
18:34:26  <andythenorth> on-topic: we need 'launch the rocket' in ottd
18:34:27  <Rubidium> with sufficient funding you can probably let them optimise some AWS nodes for your test runner purposes
18:34:35  <andythenorth> 'sufficient'
18:36:25  <Rubidium> yeah, it should probably be in the in the G£ or T£ range you'd need to shell out for them to consider doing that ;)
18:37:32  <andythenorth> I have £50
18:37:37  <andythenorth> test runs are 22 minutes
18:37:48  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9339: Codechange: add and use the ability to store (lists of) structs in savegames
18:37:51  <andythenorth> and I'm making atomic commits deleting 1 or 2 images at once
18:38:10  <andythenorth> test is a visual diff of an entire site
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19:29:07  <FLHerne> I'm confused by
19:29:26  <FLHerne> Should the first "if no valid" be "if a valid" ?
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19:33:16  <frosch123> it's a complicated sentence :p
19:34:18  <frosch123> but i think your guess is correct
19:34:41  <frosch123> first line is for companies, second is for deities
19:42:37  <V453000> does every year in openttd have 365 days? For introduction dates
19:43:01  <V453000> so if I do a date(1900,1,1) + 365 * 50, will it add exactly 50 years?
19:44:05  <Rubidium> nope
19:44:26  <V453000> XD
19:44:46  <frosch123> use 365.25 :)
19:45:18  <V453000> right
19:45:19  <V453000> :D
19:45:20  <V453000> thanks
19:45:34  <Rubidium> frosch123: only works if you start at 1904 up to 2100
19:45:46  <V453000> O_.
19:45:58  <V453000> what does that mean
19:46:08  <frosch123> yeah, but people won't notice due to the 2 years (?) randomisation :)
19:46:13  <V453000> right
19:46:28  <V453000> also the vehicle in the purchase menu only says year which will probably never be different
19:46:32  <frosch123> V453000: are you living with the mayan calendar?
19:47:11  <V453000> usually not I guess
19:50:05  <_dp_> I've no idea what are you doing but can't you write like date(1900+50,1,1) or smth?
19:51:11  <V453000> I've found an ancient comment that I wrote for myself, that has date(1900, 1 ,1) + 365 * parameter;
19:51:22  <V453000> I'm assuming I tried 1900+50 last time I was doing this
19:53:11  <V453000> I know it's WRONG, but I'm basically adding daylength modifier to nuts, so you could customize when engines start and when they end
19:54:37  <frosch123> yeah, i think we talked about that 4 years ago :p
19:54:45  <V453000> I'm sure we did
19:54:58  <V453000> I agree  it's probably better to do it on the side of the game so all newgrfs scale together
19:55:09  <V453000> but people who use nuts usually only care about trains
19:55:13  <V453000> and they don't have to use  the parameter :)
19:58:03  <andythenorth> V453000 YES!
19:58:10  <andythenorth> finally daylength modifier in grf
19:58:18  <andythenorth> I have been waiting for this for so long
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19:58:41  <andythenorth> can grfs read parameters of other grfs?
19:58:50  <glx> oh nice, current ORDR is a CH_ARRAY, but in intro game it seems to be a CH_RIFF
19:59:03  <_dp_> last time I needed that I just made a grf to adjust intro dates
19:59:03  <frosch123> andythenorth: scary thing, they actually can
19:59:07  <V453000> in my defense, if openttd hasn't implmenented it in the last 4 years, it kind of makes sense if I do it in grf :P
19:59:07  <andythenorth> I thought so
19:59:14  <andythenorth> so we could just make daylength.grf
19:59:18  <andythenorth> with a multiplier
19:59:22  <_dp_> and pretty sure scalable parameter won't help me do what I want :p
19:59:43  <andythenorth> _dp_ you're fine, you have a server
20:00:05  <andythenorth> action D
20:00:19  <_dp_> it's still easier to do in newgrf
20:00:30  <_dp_> unless it's a callback like cost
20:00:55  <nielsm> little thing I'd like to try doing but last I looked it seemed annoyingly difficult to jiggle things around the right way: load the music and begin playing before the newgrf scanning on startup
20:00:58  <_dp_> also pretty sure at that point I didn't yet realize that engines are stored in the savegame xD
20:01:22  <andythenorth> V453000 are you doing it as a multiplier (scales all dates), or an amount of years added?
20:01:29  <andythenorth> multiplier seems better probably?
20:01:36  <V453000> yeah multiplier
20:01:44  <V453000> you choose start and end
20:01:55  <andythenorth> yeah
20:02:00  <V453000> and I'll python process existing NML to just figure out that formula
20:02:11  <andythenorth> I really think we could move it to one external grf
20:02:38  <andythenorth> the main reason I didn't do it are (1) some people on here said 'ew' (2) I'd have to set it for all my grfs in parameters, and that's boring
20:02:38  <V453000> so an external grf can change the introduction dates of vehicles in other grfs?
20:02:57  <V453000> yeah the other grfs would need to have parameters exposed?
20:03:01  <andythenorth> we can make one daylength.grf and read the parameter of that
20:03:09  <V453000> right
20:03:12  <andythenorth> if it's just a multiplier and some start date offset
20:03:24  <andythenorth> or whatever
20:03:44  <andythenorth> oh also I didn't do it because discord be like 'but everybody uses JGRPP so why bother?'
20:03:47  <andythenorth> GG
20:04:03  <V453000> but that means it would only support vehicle grfs which do read this other grf
20:04:20  <V453000> at which point you could just have the parameter in each of them, with less convenience but one less grf to remember
20:04:27  <andythenorth> stuff and things
20:04:35  <andythenorth> shall we just merge everything to one grf?
20:05:09  <andythenorth> obviously it's impossible for the base game to scale intro dates, as C++ can't do that kind of maths
20:05:23  <V453000> hm, can I ensure parameter A is always lower than parameter B?
20:05:53  <V453000> I guess I can just disable the grf if you configure it that way
20:05:55  <V453000> G_G
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20:07:37  <andythenorth> @seen Eddi|zuHause
20:07:37  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: Eddi|zuHause was last seen in #openttd 3 weeks, 4 days, 11 hours, 1 minute, and 59 seconds ago: <Eddi|zuHause> also, isn't "master" a "bad" word nowadays?
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20:10:29  <V453000> Valid range for yyyy is 0 ... 5000000
20:10:30  <V453000> rly?
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20:16:35  <frosch123> yes, that's when ottd starts looping years
20:17:07  <frosch123> though that is most likely very untested :p
20:17:44  <V453000> yeah 500 001 results in 1661
20:17:54  <V453000> I kind of expected it would result in 0
20:18:41  <V453000> as you can clearly set it to 0 (logic engine has it at (0,1,1) )
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20:19:55  <frosch123> it takes about 130 years to run a game from year 0 to 5M at normal speed :)
20:20:05  <frosch123> just in case you are tempted to
20:20:36  <V453000> this is half a million, so just 13 years
20:20:44  <V453000> somebody has probably hosted a server for that long
20:21:08  <V453000> nvm I cna't count zeros
20:21:12  <V453000> or type
20:22:20  <V453000> So, reasonable maximum? :D
20:22:35  <V453000> I mean, if you set 5M for yourself, enjoy
20:23:13  <andythenorth> V453000 declare this as some kind of daylength standard and I'll add it to my grfs :P
20:23:32  <V453000> I'll just set the max to 5m
20:23:43  <V453000> min to 1
20:23:48  <V453000> or to 0 I guess
20:23:50  <V453000> who am I to judge
20:24:35  <V453000> if you want to have maglevs next to horses from other sets, or steamers next to some modern shit, be my gues
20:24:37  <V453000> t
20:24:55  <V453000> obviously most of the time people would just use it on servers for a shorter or longer game for example
20:25:08  <V453000> start still in 1900, but end in 1950 or 2500
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20:37:27  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] embeddedt commented on pull request #9191: Codechange: Disable pointer locking by default
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21:01:08  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9191: Codechange: Disable pointer locking by default
21:01:33  <TrueBrain> "I'm wondering if my emails are being delivered to you or are my emails mistakenly falling into your Spam folder ? Please reply to my email if you receive it  ." <- yes, yes they are :P
21:01:38  <TrueBrain> happy ther eis a form of self-realisation :D
21:03:16  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #9335: Codechange: make [Save|Load]Settings() behave more like other Save/Load code
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21:08:14  <TrueBrain> GitHub really needs to more clearly indicate what blocks of code are moved :P
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21:14:44  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code
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21:24:59  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code
21:25:21  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code
21:26:14  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code
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21:35:17  <TrueBrain> MSVC2016's "friends" system is broken ..
21:35:22  <TrueBrain> how are we going to deal with that ..
21:35:36  <TrueBrain> all compilers accept it, except MSVC2016 ...
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21:40:17  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9339: Codechange: add and use the ability to store (lists of) structs in savegames
21:40:46  <TrueBrain> I also have no way of testing if more specific friend-declarations are still working .. maybe glx can help with that
21:40:54  <TrueBrain> but why are we still supporting compiles on MSVC2016?
21:42:00  <TrueBrain> owh, it is windows-2016 MSVC
21:42:01  <TrueBrain> right
21:42:03  <TrueBrain> I keep forgetting that
21:42:33  <TrueBrain> it is MSVC2017
21:42:51  <glx> yes VS2017
21:43:21  <TrueBrain> so shitty to have to deal with compiler issues :P
21:44:04  <TrueBrain> glx: do you have VS2017 installed by any chance?
21:44:19  <glx> I have the compiler in VS2019
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21:44:31  <TrueBrain> it works for VS2019 :P
21:44:43  <glx> so I can build with 2017 in 2019
21:44:44  <TrueBrain> guess I will abuse the CI tomorrow to see if there are variants it does accept
21:44:56  <TrueBrain> owh, sorry, misread you :D
21:45:09  <TrueBrain>
21:45:14  <TrueBrain> that "friend" is not working for VS2017
21:45:22  <glx> used it to fix something (before enabling VS2017 CI)
21:45:26  <TrueBrain> could you give it a look to see if variants do work?
21:46:45  <TrueBrain> something like "friend const static SaveLoad SlVehicleCommon::description" maybe?
21:47:00  <glx> btw in #9322 rebasing is weirdly done (ie individual commits won't compile)
21:47:39  <TrueBrain> glx: yeah, often the last commit fixes stuff which I need to fixup in earlier
21:47:49  <TrueBrain> will do that before pulling it out of draft :)
21:48:19  <glx> ok VS2019 builds fine (expected)
21:48:25  <glx> now the other one
21:48:31  <TrueBrain> guess an alternative is that I put those in an explicit function again
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21:49:16  <TrueBrain> not the end-of-the-world or anything :D
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21:49:25  <TrueBrain> just annoyed by the fact it doesn't work :D
21:50:34  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9339: Codechange: add and use the ability to store (lists of) structs in savegames
21:54:46  <glx> and it used the wrong compiler :(
21:54:54  <TrueBrain> :(
22:02:14  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code
22:03:49  <glx> ok seems they again broke VCToolsVersion support, I'll switch to manually define compilers path
22:04:06  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code
22:08:30  <glx> ah no, just needed to set another environment variable it seems
22:10:38  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code
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22:11:10  <TrueBrain> now with a better comment on the last commit :D
22:12:26  <glx> ok I have the same errors as CI ;)
22:14:15  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Andrew350 commented on issue #8846: Updating add-ons in the NewGRF settings window don't take into account the compatibility parameter
22:16:30  <TrueBrain> well, that is something :D
22:17:06  <TrueBrain> owh, this usage of mine predates C++11 even
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22:18:32  <TrueBrain> not sure there is another solution besides making it into a function
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22:21:06  <TrueBrain> anyway, please don't spend too much time on it glx, but if you can fiddle a bit to see if anything decent falls out, that would be lovely :) Tnx!
22:21:50  <TrueBrain> I am out catching some zzzz
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22:30:53  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] embeddedt updated pull request #9191: Codechange: Disable pointer locking by default
22:40:46  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] embeddedt updated pull request #9191: Codechange: Disable pointer locking by default
22:42:18  <glx> TrueBrain: maybe because it's accessed in a lambda
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