Log for #openttd on 23rd June 2021:
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07:45:11  <peter1138> moo
07:45:22  <peter1138> Woke
07:45:32  <peter1138> Looked out
07:45:35  <peter1138> Went back to sleep
07:45:53  <peter1138> Could've been good morning ride...
07:46:59  <LordAro> silly
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08:02:29  * peter1138 confused by friends complaining that something as high end as a 1050Ti is the minimum to run a VR compatible game releasing later this year.
08:02:42  <TrueBrain> high end? :D
08:27:48  <peter1138> Quite.
08:28:35  * Rubidium got a E7440, is that high end enough?
08:31:26  <peter1138> Damn, 30-series RTX has way more "cores" than my 2080 Ti :(
08:33:04  <peter1138> I think they've confused "high price" with "current tech"
08:33:25  <peter1138> You can't buy a 1050Ti for a reasonable price because there are none lying about on shelves begging to be sold cheaply.
08:40:38  <peter1138>
08:40:41  <peter1138> OOf?
08:55:33  <LordAro> can't get graphics cards for love nor money right now
08:55:39  <LordAro> well, you can for lots of money
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09:30:33  <LordAro> always a good start to the day when you open an issue against MSYS
09:30:51  <TrueBrain> ugh, MSYS .. ugh :P
09:31:23  <TrueBrain> right, guess we need a bit of opinions if is a good idea or not :)
09:32:01  <LordAro> std::variant scares me
09:32:53  <TrueBrain> not sure that is an opinion :D
09:33:04  <TrueBrain> more a statement :P
09:33:14  <LordAro> a statement of opinion
09:35:34  <TrueBrain> :D
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12:02:13  <Samu> hello
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13:51:07  <andythenorth> yo
13:51:16  * andythenorth is having a week off
13:51:24  <andythenorth> I always lay off the coffee when I'm not working
13:51:31  * andythenorth feels wrong
13:51:52  <andythenorth> usually I have 4 or 5 cups by this time of day
13:51:55  <andythenorth> today 1 only
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13:55:31  <LordAro> that feels a bit much
13:58:38  <Timberwolf> I'm reminded of a job in 2012 where we all got briefly obsessed about an app which tried to suggest your optimal caffeine level.
13:59:08  <Timberwolf> I entered my coffee/tea intake... the line spiked steeply off the top of the chart by 10am and never returned to the displayable area.
14:01:43  * andythenorth has a coffee
14:01:49  <LordAro> lol
14:01:53  <andythenorth> crashing off the caffeine curve here
14:03:25  <glx> LordAro: weird issue you got with sqlite3
14:07:54  <LordAro> glx: ikr
14:08:15  <LordAro> tell me you can reproduce it, because i've seen it in 4 separate msys installs now (though 3 of them are clones of each other)
14:08:26  <glx> I reproduced it
14:09:22  <LordAro> good :)
14:09:38  <LordAro> they redid all the msys patches around 3.33, i'm betting something got missed there
14:09:46  <LordAro> still bizarre though
14:11:07  <glx> maybe the issue is in posix dll
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15:55:34  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Taschi120 commented on issue #9188: `autosave/netsave.sav` is not numbered (unlike regular `autosave/autosave#.sav`)
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16:17:52  <Taschi> hi folx
16:19:07  <Taschi> quick dev question - is there an option (preprocessor flag or something) to point the OpenTTD instance I'm running from VisualStudio to a different user data directory, so it doesn't write its autosaves and stuff at the same place my regular installation does?
16:20:55  <glx> you can add arguments to debug run command
16:20:59  <nielsm> put an empty openttd.cfg file in the same dir as the exe, or pass the commandline to use a different cfg file
16:24:03  <Taschi> cheers
16:24:09  <glx> btw your last comment feels like a regression bug
16:24:26  <glx> IIRC it used to do what you expect
16:26:51  <Taschi> git blame says the DoAutosave() function was last changed in 2014
16:33:54  <Samu> - there's no BT_CANAL, sad :(
16:34:42  <glx> IIRC you have an open PR for that
16:35:03  <Samu> im attempting to estimate costs
16:35:19  <Samu> for building a canal route, and yeah, i can't do it the easy way
16:35:59  <glx>
16:36:35  <Samu> oh, i remember
16:36:40  <Samu> yeah, merge it
16:36:41  <Samu> :p
16:37:13  <Taschi> i don't even think there's any way to determine the age of a file in fileio.cpp
16:37:58  <glx> yeah I think it always started from 0 indeed (after digging in history)
16:41:19  <LordAro> age of file isn't a particularly crossplatform thing to do
16:41:26  <glx> and originally there was a hard limit of 16 autosave
16:41:40  <Taschi> there is a function in C++17 for file age but yeah
16:41:56  <Taschi> coming from Java i often forget how low-tech C++ is in some areas
16:43:22  <Taschi> i guess what i could do is, keep the current netsave behavior while "keep all autosaves" is off, and save the netsave as "netsave-<default savegame name>" when "keep all autosaves" is on
16:44:50  <glx> oh don't rely on std::filesystem ;)
16:53:50  <Taschi> i've never used it, why? is it bad?
16:55:09  <FLHerne> glx, Taschi: last comment isn't a regression; someone pointed it out to me a while ago
16:55:41  <FLHerne> Probably worth fixing though :p
16:55:42  <glx> yeah it's in r1 too ;)
16:56:12  <FLHerne> ('someone' was Rubidium according to grep)
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16:57:21  <glx> Taschi: ideally both autosave and netsave should share the same code :)
16:57:35  <glx> without copy pasting
16:57:55  <FLHerne> In the 'Load game' dialog the files are sorted by age; how does that work?
16:58:14  <Taschi> @FLHerne that is a good question...
16:59:46  <Taschi> oh, and it seems like "keep_all_autosave", "autosave_on_exit" and "autosave_on_network_disconnect" aren't even in the settings menu? Or am I just blind?
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17:02:35  <FLHerne> It's quite possible, there are lots of 'hidden' settings
17:02:41  <FLHerne> [I don't see them either]
17:02:43  <glx> FiosFileScanner::AddFile does it
17:03:28  <Taschi> huh
17:03:38  <Taschi> i am staring at DoAutosave() in openttd.cpp right now
17:03:55  <Taschi> and, uh... why is _autosave_ctr a local variable? How does that even *work*
17:03:56  <glx> many settings are not in the GUI
17:04:07  <glx> it's a static variable
17:04:15  <glx> not really local :)
17:04:24  <Taschi> i... didn't even know you could do that in C++
17:04:51  <glx> so local to the function, but permanent value
17:05:09  <FLHerne> "How does that even *work*" seems to be a common question when looking at old C++ code
17:06:36  <FLHerne> grfcodec is even better than openttd proper for that
17:06:52  <FLHerne> There's some utterly insane stuff in there
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17:13:30  <glx> and 2 mixed coding styles in grfcodec :)
17:14:40  <glx> anyway if a setting is not in GUI, it should still be in the console
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17:20:27  <Taschi> - I've replicated the autosave behavior for netsaves but also essentially duplicated the code
17:21:30  <Taschi> tho the netsave needs its own counter, and uses different string literals, so i'm not sure merging the two into one function would actually make the code more compact and readable
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17:30:16  <glx> counter can be a reference arg, same for base name, and all the stuff with buffer can be replaced with std::string
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17:31:54  <glx> ah no, GenerateDefaultSaveName() must be converted first
17:33:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Taschi120 opened pull request #9395: Change #9188: Netsave now behaves like autosave
17:33:20  <glx> but each buffer to string conversion is a rabbit hole :)
17:36:45  <Taschi> guess i'll try and refactor it a bit
17:37:53  <glx> but still without switching to std::string it can still use a common function for both
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17:53:18  <andythenorth> so
17:53:28  <andythenorth> bleeding edge grf spec version of OpenTTD?
17:53:57  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Taschi120 updated pull request #9395: Change #9188: Netsave now behaves like autosave
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17:55:12  <Taschi> there, i've refactored it
17:57:10  <Taschi> i was a bit confused based on the code style document on whether Doxygen or Javadoc-style comments are preferred for documentation
17:57:29  <glx> we use doxygen
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17:58:44  <glx> DoAutosave() is almost useless now :)
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18:24:51  <Taschi> not gonna do anything else this evening, but if you have any feedback to my PR i'll look at it tomorrow
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18:38:42  <FLHerne> Maybe it's a bit orthogonal, but fixing autosave (and now netsave) to overwrite the oldest one would indeed make it more useful
18:38:53  <FLHerne> or at least more reliable for some uses
18:39:03  <FLHerne> I just saw a little steamboat :-)
18:45:37  <Taschi> i think fixing Autosave should probably have its own ticket but i'd be willing to take a stab at it
18:46:03  <Taschi> also, that's a cute boat
18:46:36  <Taschi> i was kinda planning to take a narrowboat vacation in the UK once the pandemic is over and i'm not broke
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18:53:13  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Taschi120 opened issue #9396: Rotation of numbered autosaves is confusing
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18:56:24  <Taschi>
18:56:31  <Taschi> ah, the nice bot already linked it
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19:02:59  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Taschi120 commented on issue #9396: Rotation of numbered autosaves is confusing
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19:16:28  <andythenorth> is there any trick to detect x < n when doing modulo(x)?
19:16:51  <andythenorth> actually that means nothing
19:16:52  <andythenorth> ignore
19:17:03  * andythenorth needs discord for editable messages :P
19:17:08  <andythenorth> think irc might be over soon
19:17:44  * andythenorth trying to find a way to handle "number towns < FIRS town 'types'"
19:18:40  <Taschi> tbh i was surprised this chat hadn't migrated to Discord yet
19:19:13  <andythenorth> there are people who can't discord for ethical reasons
19:19:45  <Taschi> i understand that
19:20:03  <Taschi> i was really annoyed when they decided they'd put a games storefront into their chat system
19:21:22  <Taschi> otoh it's been like 12 years since I first used IRC and there's been basically no improvement in the user experience
19:22:07  <Taschi> and i'm sceptical of any online technology that only supports something as basic as user authentication through unofficial expansions and hacks
19:26:01  <FLHerne> To be fair, everyone uses NickServ now
19:26:17  <FLHerne> It might be an unofficial hacky standard, but it's a standard
19:27:28  <FLHerne> andythenorth: I don't think maths can solve your problem there :p
19:27:46  <FLHerne> It's a policy decision
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19:37:02  <andythenorth> a policy I should decide, or the newgrf spec policy?
19:40:26  <Wolf01> Should you remember what happened the last time you decided something :P
19:40:41  <andythenorth> we don't talk about NRT
19:41:45  <Wolf01> Which is one of the best features so far, but yeah, better not talk about it :D
19:42:17  <Taschi> what you should do is give the user an electric shock so they won't choose silly world generation settings next time
19:43:33  <andythenorth> there's not even a way to detect the problem :)
19:44:09  <Taschi> oops
19:44:24  <andythenorth> the grf spec was (not entirely deliberately, but somewhat intentionally) crippled in favour of GS
19:55:31  * andythenorth will use what there is
19:55:35  <andythenorth> there will be...bugs
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20:00:53  <peter1138> Post-ride burger.
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20:03:54  <peter1138> User authentication for most things is unofficial expansions and hacks...
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20:12:39  <FLHerne> andythenorth: That you should decide? I don't see how grfspec can do anything meaningful about the number of FIRS town types
20:13:03  <andythenorth> me neither
20:13:23  <andythenorth> no var for number of towns on the map
20:22:59  <Taschi> i think you could technically show the user a message along the lines of "please check that there are at least X towns on the map, otherwise <NewGRF name> won't work properly" after world generation?
20:23:59  <Taschi> emphasis on "i think"
20:24:29  <andythenorth> I could, but I suspect 99% of games have > 3 towns
20:24:44  <andythenorth> so it's not a good rationale for the message :)
20:25:04  <andythenorth> I could stop talking and start patching
20:26:11  <andythenorth> I'm already playing a patched OpenTTD with patched grfs
20:26:35  <nielsm> OpenTTDPatch
20:26:43  <Taschi> yeah
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