Log for #openttd on 7th August 2021:
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07:13:57  <andythenorth> moin
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09:34:56  <andythenorth> goes it patch regions?
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11:21:01  <andythenorth_> quak!
11:22:16  <frosch123> moo
11:25:28  <andythenorth_> frosch123 is there a var I am not seeing for 'town name'?  (context is industry)
11:26:16  <frosch123> do you mean a string code?
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11:28:34  <andythenorth_> that would work yes
11:28:48  <andythenorth_> easier than messing around putting a string on the text stack
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11:30:26  <frosch123> hmm, {TOWN} and other string codes are ottd inventions. so there is no such thing in newgrf
11:35:26  <andythenorth_> context is
11:35:40  <andythenorth_> I would like to be able to refer to the town by name
11:35:47  <andythenorth_> and in other places
11:36:20  <andythenorth_> it's not essential, I am basically improvising because newgrf can't write to any town window
11:37:11  <peter1138> Alright, why did I just get an electric shock from a USB cable?
11:37:30  <andythenorth_> that happens sometimes
11:37:34  <andythenorth_> we have a couple that do that
11:37:40  <andythenorth_> how much shock?
11:43:02  <milek7> grounding issues?
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11:48:55  <peter1138> I'm guessing it's a non-ground referenced PSU :(
11:49:39  <peter1138> That and I'm slightly sweaty from finished a short bike ride.
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12:46:35  <andythenorth_> growth callback would be patched where?
12:46:41  * andythenorth_ thinks there might a town_cmd.cpp
12:46:43  * andythenorth_ looks
12:47:54  <andythenorth_> there's even a spec :P
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12:48:54  <andythenorth_> maybe UpdateTownGrowthRate
12:49:50  <andythenorth_> hmm
12:49:59  * andythenorth_ wonders what TOWN_CUSTOM_GROWTH does
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12:51:52  <andythenorth_> or maybe it's GetNormalGrowthRate
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14:20:35  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 opened pull request #230: Add: Options to disable optimisation and/or deprecation warnings
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14:36:14  <andythenorth_> :)
14:54:05  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro commented on pull request #230: Add: Options to disable optimisation and/or deprecation warnings
14:56:35  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth commented on pull request #230: Add: Options to disable optimisation and/or deprecation warnings
15:02:13  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 commented on pull request #230: Add: Options to disable optimisation and/or deprecation warnings
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16:04:30  <Wolf01> I think I should go easy with the VR, my current limit is about 1 hour before starting to get sick
16:05:15  <Wolf01> (not just with motion sickness, that's instant if it comes, but my back hurts a lot now)
16:09:23  <frosch123> adjust the fov slider
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16:24:06  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 updated pull request #230: Add: Options to disable optimisation and/or deprecation warnings
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17:41:58  <andythenorth> GetNormalGrowthRate is a bit hard to follow
17:42:13  <andythenorth> what's the unit for growth rate?
17:42:20  <andythenorth> something something ticks?
17:44:03  * andythenorth reading
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18:05:15  <TrueBrain> That moment you have to register for a service and the confirmation email never arrives .. guess they are not interested in new users .. lol
18:05:43  <frosch123> "check your spam folder"
18:17:31  <andythenorth> I had that with Instagram
18:17:36  <TrueBrain> Worse, quarantined .. lol
18:17:38  <andythenorth> so many times I tried to register
18:17:46  <andythenorth> "so sad I can't"
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18:21:39  <frosch123> just post your pictures on r/firs
18:29:01  <andythenorth> discord :P
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18:31:00  <TrueBrain> hmm
18:31:19  <TrueBrain> funny, using the official Matrix bridge doesn't require you to have the [m] postfix
18:31:22  <TrueBrain> that is useful :D
18:33:01  * andythenorth hoping that Element use their money wisely also
18:33:10  <andythenorth> their client is currently incredibly lolz
18:33:41  <TrueBrain> that might be you :P
18:33:41  <andythenorth> it has a non-dismisable message saying "this chat is not secure, you can secure it from another account"
18:33:42  <TrueBrain> it works fine for me .. has been for months
18:33:51  <andythenorth> then you click 'ok secure this shit"
18:33:54  <andythenorth> and nothing happens
18:33:59  <andythenorth> so you're stuck with this stupid modal
18:34:10  <TrueBrain> I have no clue what you are smoking :D
18:34:15  <andythenorth> also they can't show who's online or not
18:34:26  <andythenorth> the tech supports it, but it chokes their server
18:34:32  <andythenorth> so that's like a basic chat feature that fails
18:35:54  <TrueBrain> so you just nitpicked a few things and dismissed it all together? :D Similar things can be said about any other platform btw :P
18:36:01  <TrueBrain> "What is this IRC, not even allowing pictures!"
18:36:10  <andythenorth> yes
18:36:19  <andythenorth> but the message doesn't go away
18:36:34  <TrueBrain> owh, MacOS client .. no wonder :P
18:36:38  * TrueBrain runs
18:36:39  <TrueBrain> :P
18:36:43  <andythenorth> it's just electron no?
18:36:56  <TrueBrain> a wrapper, but most likely
18:37:00  <andythenorth> it's lolz that they have all this secure shit, but it's just electron
18:37:15  <TrueBrain> but I don't have this secure blabla crap :)
18:37:24  <andythenorth> "adopted by major western spy agencies" -> electron
18:38:27  <andythenorth> anyway, they seem like nice people, UK company
18:38:42  <andythenorth> I hope they succeed, otherwise 25% of my staff will vote for Slack and win
18:39:14  <TrueBrain> I like how it just works for IRC :)
18:39:23  <TrueBrain> much better than most IRC clients I had
18:39:26  <andythenorth> my dislike of slack is really shallow, and is based on (1) the CEO has obviously dyed hair in videos (2) their marketing screenshots have these awful 'go team' messages
18:39:37  <andythenorth> yeah, I wanted to use it as a bridge to irc initially
18:39:56  <TrueBrain> I used to run my own server, to bridge to IRC .. but I kept forgetting to update it
18:40:00  <TrueBrain> and that was showing :P
18:40:08  <TrueBrain> so now I just use the SaaS variant :P
18:40:23  <andythenorth> yeah I wanted hosted
18:41:04  <andythenorth> oh I got a client update
18:41:05  <andythenorth> hmm
18:41:52  <andythenorth> do you have all the insanely detailed security settings as well?
18:42:00  <andythenorth> like "Manually verify all remote sessions"
18:42:12  <TrueBrain> lol, "truebrain" was claimed on matrix, so I picked another nick ... but it turns out, it was me who claimed it :D Lets switch over to there .. lol
18:42:18  <TrueBrain> bbiab :)
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18:44:38  <FLHerne> andythenorth: You know the Dragon space capsule's control panel is JS in Chromium?
18:45:07  <FLHerne> everything is web tech now
18:45:59  <andythenorth> that's super
18:46:16  <andythenorth> electron seems particularly prone to RCEs
18:46:39  <andythenorth> for reasons I don't claim to understand
18:46:47  <andythenorth> maybe browsers sandbox better or something, dunno
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18:47:04  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I found what you are seeing :)
18:47:09  <TrueBrain> as I just had it too :P
18:47:31  <andythenorth> they haven't got many UX people yet I think
18:47:32  <TrueBrain> basically, when I joined with a second device, the first device needs to validate the new device is also you
18:47:49  <andythenorth> I only had one device, so I have NFI how I'm supposed to validate 'from another account'
18:47:49  <TrueBrain> so when you get that screen you showed, my other device was asking me to verify the login
18:47:54  <andythenorth> I see :)
18:47:56  <andythenorth> features
18:47:59  <TrueBrain> (for me it was mobile / desktop)
18:48:14  <andythenorth> I so want to like this client + company
18:48:34  <andythenorth> it's getting major adoption, and is the closest thing I've seen to discord so far in commercial app
18:48:45  <andythenorth> I just worry it's mercurial not git :P
18:49:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
18:49:30  <DorpsGek>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:49:45  <TrueBrain> you can worry about a lot of things in life :P
18:50:00  <TrueBrain> what is annoying, that my own name now has a different colour
18:50:01  <TrueBrain> that sucks
18:55:14  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: in more detail, it seems the screen you are getting is to recover encryption keys between devices, so you can decrypt old messages :)
18:56:13  <andythenorth> how interesting
18:56:24  <andythenorth> I think I need to draw a diagram
18:56:35  <andythenorth> it isn't a complicated diagram, but eh
18:56:42  <TrueBrain> 2 boxes and a line
18:56:55  <andythenorth> equivalent irc diagram just has a fuzzy cloud
18:57:57  <TrueBrain> meh, I wonder if I can change the colour of my own nick .. this is so annoying :P
19:01:26  <andythenorth> there is probably a css file :P
19:01:29  <andythenorth> brute force
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19:11:19  <glx> brute force should never be the first choice
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19:20:01  <TrueBrain> owh no, also glx has another colour .. this colouring algorithm sucks! UNUSUABLE!
19:22:52  <andythenorth> I think it's an open source client no? :P
19:22:56  <andythenorth> it has a github
19:23:00  <andythenorth> iirc
19:24:34  <TrueBrain> it does
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20:06:42  <andythenorth> was I doing grf?
20:10:34  <TrueBrain> yup
20:14:10  <andythenorth> I think I got dissuaded :P
20:14:20  <andythenorth> trying to do industry <-> town stuff
20:14:25  <andythenorth> the spec just doesn't want it
20:14:49  <andythenorth> oh dear :)
20:19:08  <andythenorth> the spec is so carefully designed and beautiful
20:19:13  <andythenorth> so it must be correct, yes? :)
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20:40:01  <andythenorth> nobody has sent a 'quit whining' emoji?
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20:42:10  <TrueBrain> no, we are just thinking it :P
20:44:06  <TrueBrain> lovely :)
20:44:07  <TrueBrain> I am trying to move my unifi-controller .. so I make a backup on the old .. restore it on the new ... nothing happens. I do an inspection of the web traffic .. turns out, it just throws a 403, no message, nothing
21:01:17  <TrueBrain> finally found a way to restore my backup .. silly controller :P
21:05:08  <andythenorth> :)
21:12:04  <andythenorth> what was I even trying to do in grf?
21:12:08  * andythenorth tests
21:13:55  <andythenorth> oh yeah grf spec wasn't blocking me, it's just weird
21:14:02  <andythenorth> problem is English Language As Written
21:18:38  <andythenorth> eh, does 'standard of living' translate ok? :)
21:18:45  <andythenorth> this is for like .... towns and stuff
21:24:56  <frosch123> Lebensqualität
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21:26:14  <frosch123> <- it evens links to stuff
21:26:36  <frosch123> though it distinguishes standard of living and quality of life
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21:26:58  <frosch123> which i would have considered mostly the same
21:28:32  <andythenorth> they're about synonymous for this purpose
21:28:49  <andythenorth> higher quality of life = town growth, industry production increase
21:29:07  <andythenorth> moral question: delivering alcohol increases quality of life? :P
21:29:51  <frosch123> let's say it moves it toward medium
21:29:57  <frosch123> raises if low, lowers if high
21:30:12  <frosch123> too complicated? :p
21:30:20  <andythenorth> honestly yes :)
21:30:26  <andythenorth> but it's appealing
21:30:41  <andythenorth> ha
21:30:49  <andythenorth> I was going to try waste / recycling cargos again
21:31:03  <andythenorth> transporting them away => higher quality of life
21:31:20  <andythenorth> maybe delivering alcohol causes some other cargo to be produced
21:31:29  <andythenorth> 'healthcare needs'
21:31:34  <andythenorth> hmm this could get complicated
21:31:40  <andythenorth> hospital industry?
21:31:46  <andythenorth> police industry?
21:32:31  <frosch123> that may be too much "morals" for ottd :)
21:33:26  <frosch123> maybe you can identify some industries that provide shitty jobs, which need drugs for workers
21:34:18  <andythenorth> programming!
21:34:24  <andythenorth> in cubicle farms!
21:34:32  <frosch123> coffee
21:34:37  <frosch123> not alcohol
21:34:44  <frosch123> unless blizzard
21:35:28  <andythenorth> my friend worked at EA
21:35:41  <andythenorth> ended up addicted to morphine
21:35:55  <frosch123> can you admit publically to work at EA?
21:36:12  <andythenorth> unknown :)
21:36:17  <TrueBrain> if you are looking for tomatos, yes
21:37:36  <andythenorth> ok english distinguishes 'quality of life' and 'standard of living'
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21:38:00  <andythenorth> 'standard of living' is better for FIRS, because it can be a crap town with crap jobs, but if food and beer and cars are supplied
21:38:03  <andythenorth> that's ok
21:38:23  <andythenorth> I am not measuring actual well-being or anything
21:39:10  <frosch123> there are also two terms in german, which have probably the same meaning, but i guess i have not studied that stuff :)
21:41:27  <andythenorth> the page I read said it's contested meaning
21:42:01  <andythenorth> so far
21:42:19  <TrueBrain> missing newline at bottom of list :P
21:42:37  <andythenorth> for you, I shall fix that
21:42:41  <TrueBrain> \o/
21:43:41  <andythenorth>
21:43:47  <TrueBrain> yes
21:44:02  <andythenorth> but now that we've bike-shedded the formatting (I agree)
21:44:07  <andythenorth> does it actually make sense?
21:44:20  <andythenorth> it doesn't say what effect 'standard of living' has
21:44:43  <andythenorth> hmm this list uses a lot of vertical space also
21:45:41  <TrueBrain> the last part "if there are not enough" suggests you might need multiple, but it is unclear when/why
21:46:02  <andythenorth> I could actually count how many there are in the town
21:46:07  <andythenorth> and display that in the list
21:46:14  <andythenorth> if I don't run out of text stack
21:46:27  <andythenorth> is text stack 16 registers?
21:46:28  * andythenorth looks
21:46:31  <TrueBrain> to me it reads it needs at least one, but the last line suggests that might not be true, and you need multiple
21:47:08  <frosch123> you can also print bytes and words, to use less stack space
21:47:34  <frosch123> not sure whether nml supports bytes. it has issues with translations / reordering of parameters
21:48:26  <Eddi|zuHause> glx: why? :p
21:48:32  <frosch123> yeah, bytes are a bad idea
21:48:53  <andythenorth> stack is 100h-105h
21:49:04  <andythenorth> I could just precompute all possible combinations in python :P
21:49:09  <andythenorth> but I probably run out of string IDs
21:49:30  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: why not :)
21:50:32  <TrueBrain> now that is an excellent reply :)
21:50:49  <frosch123> andythenorth: increasing the stack up to 10E is probably easy
21:50:57  <frosch123> i think 10F is used for other stuff :p
21:51:25  <andythenorth> I might have max 10 town industry types
21:51:28  <andythenorth> and a count for each
21:51:37  <andythenorth> if it was bytes, stuffed, it would be plenty
21:51:55  <andythenorth> I could stuff them into nibbles probably
21:52:04  <andythenorth> do people have more than 8 beer shops in a town?
21:52:17  * andythenorth fails at hex
21:52:22  <andythenorth> 16 beer ships
21:52:24  <andythenorth> shops
21:52:33  <andythenorth> can we have discord, I am too used to editing my errors?
21:52:46  <andythenorth> I typed with even less care than I used to
21:54:19  <andythenorth> it's hard to explain that there must be N of these industries AND they must have transport needs met (x amount supplied or delivered)
21:54:31  <andythenorth> the actual combination of industry types doesn't matter
21:55:39  <frosch123> take the SV approach. claim that the player is a maniac and has an urge to fulfill town goals
21:57:18  <andythenorth> this is definitely SV inspired :P
21:57:57  <frosch123> in other games you have to fulfill goals before you unlock the next stuff
21:58:28  <andythenorth> 'level up'
21:58:29  <frosch123> so you have to provide a petral station before vehicle distributors appear
21:58:48  <andythenorth> my kids play casual games with about 500 'level up' opportunities
21:59:18  <frosch123> good point, you need multiple types of currencies
21:59:39  <andythenorth> 'standard of living' is like gold or gems :P
21:59:42  <andythenorth> it's the 2nd currency
21:59:46  <andythenorth> money is silver
22:00:20  <andythenorth> there's often XP as a 3rd currency too
22:00:39  <andythenorth> hmm can I get a list of the actual industries and if they are happy?
22:00:50  <andythenorth> GS has the list, but no knowledge of happiness
22:01:02  <andythenorth> GRF has the happiness (via town registers) but not the names
22:01:04  <andythenorth> oh
22:01:19  <andythenorth> can I put industry name string into town register?
22:01:21  * andythenorth looks
22:01:41  <andythenorth> nope industry has no 'name' var
22:02:05  <frosch123> you can template that, can't you?
22:02:21  <andythenorth> I could put IDs in
22:02:28  <andythenorth> but I don't have the town name
22:02:37  <andythenorth> seems text control code 86 would be needed also :P
22:03:22  <andythenorth> also it's a silly idea, industry names are not unique anyway :)
22:03:39  <frosch123> why 86? nml uses 86 to reorder parameters in translations
22:04:27  <andythenorth> there's a comment about it here below the table
22:04:36  * andythenorth might be misunderstanding
22:05:07  <andythenorth> it gives an example which afaict isn't actually possible in grf
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22:11:26  <andythenorth> eh I could have a casino industry
22:12:20  <frosch123> is that an upgrade to increase alcohol demand?
22:12:55  <andythenorth> maybe
22:13:02  <andythenorth> I did consider randomising demand a bit
22:13:16  <andythenorth> there are probably some town bits
22:13:23  <andythenorth> or just modulo the ID
22:15:13  <andythenorth> maybe my brain will solve all this in sleep
22:15:14  <andythenorth> :P
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