Log for #openttd on 19th August 2021:
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00:50:45  <milek7>
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10:06:19  <andythenorth> hmm element as irc client you say?
10:06:21  * andythenorth might try it
10:08:47  <peter1138> Do I need another bike?
10:09:08  <peter1138> Facebook seems to be targeting bike adverts at me for "some" reason.
10:11:02  <andythenorth> how many bikes do you have?
10:11:40  <LordAro> N
10:11:42  <LordAro> N+1 required
10:12:29  <peter1138> Exactly.
10:12:32  <andythenorth> the minimum is (1) main bike (2) old main bike, kept as backup, and because it's too good to get rid of (3) 'really nice bike' in state of disrepair that you promise yourself you will restore one day
10:12:54  <andythenorth> then if you ride long distance road, you need something for that
10:13:03  <andythenorth> and if you ride off-road, you need something for that
10:13:27  <andythenorth> so N >= 3 is the starting point
10:13:28  <peter1138> Also I have a very clean cassette as it took it off the wheel to clean it and soaked it. Almost like new.
10:14:13  <peter1138> Unfortunately the fact it came off without needing to use any tools was a bit worrying, and the freehub appears to be shafted.
10:15:41  <peter1138> Thinking of booking my road bike in to be repaired & serviced, and also the car, but I've got telephone anxiety. FFS.
10:17:27  <andythenorth> they might even use email :P
10:17:41  <andythenorth> I try to keep phone anxiety and email anxiety in check :P
10:17:54  <andythenorth> once I've decided to rip the plaster off, phone is vastly preferable
10:18:14  <peter1138> If they're busy then back & forth email is a slow process.
10:18:29  <andythenorth> I hate the inital 'talk to stranger' part of phoning :P
10:18:37  <LordAro> can confirm
10:18:48  <andythenorth> but then the problem just gets sorted so eh
10:18:58  <peter1138> Exactly that.
10:19:07  <andythenorth> and also people are fine
10:19:15  <peter1138> Also the car has only done 3000 miles this year... hardly needs it, right?
10:19:30  <andythenorth> oof reminds me I need a van service
10:19:32  <andythenorth> hmm
10:19:47  <andythenorth> currently it's in the body shop, due to some errors of judgement
10:19:53  <peter1138> Hah
10:20:15  * andythenorth don't visit Marlow, not advised
10:20:21  <peter1138> Took my partner out to do some driving learning... that's a scary thing
10:26:13  <peter1138> Not much coordination, I might have to be mean and defer to an actual instructor with dual-controls.
10:26:35  <peter1138> Wasn't planning to instruct, just have a refresher.
10:33:18  <Timberwolf> My partner has quietly snuck off the insurance due to increased risk profile (which now seems to have dropped to about the same as me)
10:33:25  <Timberwolf> Cunning excuse to never be designated driver.
10:40:55  <andythenorth> oof element wtf
10:40:57  <andythenorth> "Federation denied with"
10:43:51  <andythenorth> I don't understand element at all
10:44:02  <andythenorth> it's a client from matrix, but it doesn't work with matrix
10:44:07  <andythenorth> it's so wtf?
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10:49:04  <andythenorth[m]> does it work though
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10:50:11  <LordAro> you've got an [m]
10:51:40  <andythenorth> I do
10:52:22  <andythenorth> I am using the element web client
10:52:35  <andythenorth> I have NFI how I connect the desktop client, it's stuck on another account
10:52:46  <andythenorth> and the UI seems to contain no ways to switch account
10:52:54  <andythenorth> 'element, the future'
10:52:56  <andythenorth> _maybe_
10:53:49  <andythenorth> I need TB user support services :P
10:54:49  <peter1138> Think I'll set up the G27 tonight. It's nowhere near the same but safer...
11:05:06  <LordAro> G27?
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11:39:06  <andythenorth[m]> oh element in the desktop client now
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12:03:37  <michi_cc> Are we stuck with a double andy now? :P
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12:50:26  <Samu> hi
12:52:19  <peter1138> As predicted, no derailleurs available...
12:52:49  <peter1138> LordAro, Logitech steering wheel.
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13:21:47  <Timberwolf> The main issue I had as someone who started with driving games is I got to a point where I could correct an oversteer slide instinctively but couldn't use a clutch. :)
13:43:09  <Samu> what's a decent pastebin site
13:43:28  <Samu> got some c++ code to paste
13:49:35  <peter1138> Timberwolf, yeah, clutch is my concern.
13:49:57  <Samu> nevermind, gotta figure this idleness myself
13:49:57  <peter1138> G27 has a clutch pedal but there's no feedback.
13:50:30  <Timberwolf> Plus clutch mapping in games is all over the place.
13:51:00  <Timberwolf> Some have a biting point that's linear over the whole pedal, others have a very sharp one that's in one particular range of the travel.
13:51:25  <Timberwolf> I guess same is true of cars, but it's hard to do with no feedback.
13:52:02  <glx> it's funny when I have to use clutch and brakes with the G27, my chair moves :)
13:52:10  <Timberwolf> Although that is also true of some cars, I recall the early Volvo 850 manuals having pretty much zero feedback from the clutch short of the engine stalling or front wheels spinning.
13:52:57  <glx> on some cars biting point is very very high
13:53:03  <glx> super weird
13:53:25  <Samu> I'd like someone to look at my code, but that's asking too much
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14:00:33  <Timberwolf> I always assumed super high biting point was excessive wear, but that's probably more my car history speaking.
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15:02:28  <Samu> i pinpointed the issue
15:02:45  <Samu> not exactly that code, but similar to it
15:03:25  <Samu>
15:04:17  <Samu> my "isEqual" function is deemed too slow
15:06:03  <Samu> the slowdowns aren't noticeable for ship or road routes
15:06:14  <Samu> because there aren't many items in the localPairList
15:07:08  <Samu> but for aircraft, it can get quite many towns in there, which are then appended to the m_nearCityPairArray
15:07:30  <Samu> the array increases quickly
15:08:27  <Samu> more and more calls to "isEqual" will increase this whole loop time to unnaceptable 2700, 3000+ more ticks
15:08:47  <Samu> that's too many days for something that was supposed to be a quick check
15:11:52  <Samu> the solution, hmm... get less items in the localPairList
15:13:04  <Samu> that would mean.... tighten the min_dist, max_dist for an aircraft route, keep the interval between them shorter, to have less towns in the localPairList
15:13:19  <Samu> pff :(
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15:17:07  <Samu> i need to see why I'm getting so many items in the first place. Something feels wrong
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16:03:53  <_dp_> so... beta2? ;)
16:05:57  <michi_cc> Is there any outstanding PR that should absolutely go in it?
16:09:54  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #9489: Doc: Prepare for 12.0-beta2 release
16:13:25  <Samu> #8390, but it has conflicts apparently
16:18:17  <Samu> oh, and yesterday's reported bug in irc
16:20:46  <Samu> michi_cc,
16:21:18  <Samu> %u, %s, %d not being parsed correctly
16:24:21  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #9489: Doc: Prepare for 12.0-beta2 release
16:24:31  <michi_cc> Samu: But is there a PR with a fix?
16:24:51  <Samu> i think not, i can't use visual studio atm
16:46:02  <michi_cc> Is there even an issue for it? Yesterday in IRC could as well be last year.
16:46:18  <LordAro> ^
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17:07:11  <glx> I can't use VS, else I'd have checked the console issue
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17:14:32  <peter1138> Facebook has moved on from advertising bicycles to... advertising bicycles and all-men holidays.
17:16:00  <andythenorth[m]> hmmm
17:16:05  <andythenorth[m]> using element as irc client is weird
17:16:09  <andythenorth[m]> it has a lot of colours and stuff
17:16:31  <peter1138> irssi has colours.
17:16:56  <andythenorth[m]> usually I use some mac client where I can turn the colours down
17:17:00  <andythenorth[m]> nearly monochrome
17:21:56  <michi_cc> glx: I've found the problem already, I was just angling for some S education.
17:22:56  <glx> probably easy to fix
17:27:36  <glx> oh of course it's the fmt::format move
17:28:00  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc opened pull request #9500: Fix d9c1d18f2: Wrong format string for console disconnect message.
17:32:12  <LordAro> is there any compile time things we can do to detect such things? like __attribute__((format (printf ...))) ?
17:32:21  <glx> checking all IConsolePrint to be sure
17:33:01  <glx> echo and echoc commands don't look very safe to use
17:34:14  <glx> would be better to use "{}", argv[] than directly argv[]
17:38:46  <Rubidium> LordAro: there are some things that can be done, but then the string needs to be a C-string literal. I'm not sure anymore, but for some reason that was not really feasible for IConsolePrint I think
17:39:59  <Rubidium> glx: no, using "{}" wouldn't be really better. The trick is that IConsolePrint(CC, string) exists as well as IConsolePrint(CC, format, params)
17:40:51  <glx> oh right
17:41:55  <Rubidium> though that choice could be reconsidered
17:49:26  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #9500: Fix d9c1d18f2: Wrong format string for console disconnect message.
17:56:03  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #9500: Fix d9c1d18f2: Wrong format string for console disconnect message.
17:56:56  <glx> using project file as a workaround VS 16.11.1 issue seems to work, except for regression tests :)
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18:20:29  <michi_cc> glx: Regression tests work for me using the project files (okay, haven't updated to 16.11.1 yet).
18:21:09  <michi_cc> Is this a freshly generated project file or only updated?
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18:22:22  <michi_cc> Concerning regressions, I often find that I have to manually remove the editbin line from the cmake cache (or clear the whole cache) after a VS update as cmake somehow doesn't figure that out by itself.
18:23:13  <michi_cc> And work dir for debugging has to be "$(SolutionDir)", but I think should be the default now.
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18:46:26  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
18:46:27  <DorpsGek>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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18:54:11  <michi_cc> Can anybody besides TB update all the socials, Steam, GOG etc?
18:54:43  <LordAro> i think all the passwords are in the password manager
18:54:47  <LordAro> not that i know where that is
18:54:50  <LordAro> or how to access it
18:55:42  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #9489: Doc: Prepare for 12.0-beta2 release
18:56:53  <michi_cc> LordAro: Cross-check on the changelog?
18:57:05  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9489: Doc: Prepare for 12.0-beta2 release
18:57:32  <LordAro> what TB said :p
18:57:34  <LordAro> otherwise good
18:58:02  <TrueBrain> michi_cc: if you have an email you can get access .. Mister Aro here is too lazy for that :p
18:58:18  * andythenorth[m] continues to try
18:58:30  <michi_cc> My account has a .forward in it, not a mailbox .)
18:58:38  <TrueBrain> That is fine
18:59:03  <TrueBrain> Will get you access in a bit, when I find my PC :)
19:00:53  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] michicc updated pull request #222: Add: 12.0-beta2 announcement
19:01:23  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #9489: Doc: Prepare for 12.0-beta2 release
19:04:55  <michi_cc> LordAro: Do some approvals so it doesn't feel so much like self-approval :)
19:07:14  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #9489: Doc: Prepare for 12.0-beta2 release
19:07:31  <LordAro> so demanding :p
19:08:44  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on pull request #222: Add: 12.0-beta2 announcement
19:09:02  <LordAro> go ahead and tag, socials & announcement need to be after anyway
19:09:05  * LordAro dinner
19:11:11  <glx> and building is slow (especially universal macos)
19:13:06  <glx> ok I think errors I had with regression where related to a test game script with incorrect API version, once fixed regression pass
19:13:30  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] michicc updated pull request #222: Add: 12.0-beta2 announcement
19:15:38  <TrueBrain> send you an invite michi_cc to 1password
19:16:05  <TrueBrain> do you know how 1password works?
19:18:01  <michi_cc> Like other password managers I hope :P
19:18:26  <TrueBrain> basically, yes :) I gave you access to the Socials vaults
19:18:34  <TrueBrain> in there is everything you need to login, except Steam
19:18:38  <TrueBrain> I will take care of Steam later tonight
19:18:47  <TrueBrain> (I won't make you suffer for making a News image :P)
19:19:34  <TrueBrain> owh, and we could check if you have permissions on Discord to post as yourself (as that is most useful in Discord's case)
19:20:12  <TrueBrain> basically a question if you can post in #announcements there; if not, let me know, I will ask for you to be added :)
19:20:36  <TrueBrain> but yeah, the release itself takes ~30 minutes, so better get that going first :D
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19:20:59  <michi_cc> I don't have an input bar in #annoucements, which I guess means I can't post to there.
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19:21:41  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #9489: Doc: Prepare for 12.0-beta2 release
19:23:38  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc created new tag: 12.0-beta2
19:23:44  <TrueBrain> \o/
19:25:46  <TrueBrain> there you go michi_cc :)
19:25:56  <TrueBrain> (Discord role)
19:26:36  <TrueBrain> when you post in #announcement, it will ask you to publish; you want to do that :) (it informs all Discord servers that watch the #announcement channel to post in those servers too; this basically always holds true for news we post)
19:28:04  <michi_cc> Oh, nightly is also still in the workflow queue. I guess the release will take some time :)
19:28:23  <TrueBrain> yeah ..
19:28:34  <TrueBrain> the news you can already merge when approved (I cannot approve it, it is my PR :P)
19:28:37  <TrueBrain> makes it go to staging
19:29:04  <michi_cc> Somebody(tm) should check my latest reword, then I can approve and merge.
19:29:30  <TrueBrain> lgtm
19:29:55  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] michicc approved pull request #222: Add: 12.0-beta2 announcement
19:30:28  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] glx22 approved pull request #222: Add: 12.0-beta2 announcement
19:30:48  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] michicc merged pull request #222: Add: 12.0-beta2 announcement
19:32:51  <TrueBrain> Steam news message is ready for publishing
19:34:08  <TrueBrain> and now it is a waiting game :)
19:34:55  <glx> 2 releases and a CI at the same time
19:35:10  <TrueBrain> all beta2 targets are running, so it is fine :)
19:36:49  <michi_cc> glx: At least we get our money's worth from GitHub :D
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19:55:58  <TrueBrain> michi_cc: it is done
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19:56:42  <michi_cc> Yeah, noticed. Is the process robust, i.e. tag website now or wait till all links are done first?
19:57:08  <TrueBrain> yup, you can tag now :)
19:57:25  <TrueBrain> <- currently it is publishing the website with the new link
19:57:31  <TrueBrain> but you can already tag, it will queue it after that
19:57:43  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] michicc created new tag: 1.4.34
19:57:46  <TrueBrain> website takes ~5 minutes to publish
19:58:08  <TrueBrain> posted on Steam, rest is up to you :D
19:59:34  <glx> @topic set 1 "1.11.2 / 12.0-beta2"
19:59:34  *** DorpsGek changes topic to "1.11.2 / 12.0-beta2 | Website: * (source: github, translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only"
20:12:11  <michi_cc> Mostly done I think.
20:12:18  <michi_cc> Maybe even right :P
20:12:23  <TrueBrain> nice :D
20:13:39  <michi_cc> Oh, tt-forums. Do we need a new thread if almost nobody read the old one?
20:14:43  <TrueBrain> I suggested to update the current
20:14:44  <TrueBrain> I can fix that
20:15:20  <TrueBrain> done
20:16:59  <TrueBrain> owh, now people will complain of course that they can no longer use beta1 on Steam I guess :P
20:17:22  <glx> they can (if the game is not closed)
20:17:52  <michi_cc> They simply shouldn't use beta1. Problem solved :)
20:18:23  <TrueBrain> I can add beta1 and beta2 to the dropdown if we like
20:19:01  <glx> no need
20:25:32  <TrueBrain> I am happy how easy releasing has become :)
20:26:07  <glx> yeah I remember the old manual compile and upload of the pdb
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20:44:13  <TrueBrain> haha, those days ... where everyone had to upload their build ..
20:44:22  <TrueBrain> now that was an interesting "ring of trust" :D
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22:01:56  <Timberwolf> It's one of the things I really do like about modern development; even as only one person I regularly rack up multiple releases per day over the entire week at work.
22:02:23  <Timberwolf> Maybe my, "fuck it, yolo it up to production, see what happens" attitude is not quite the right one.
22:02:39  <Timberwolf> That only happens once or twice a week, though.
22:07:03  <_dp_> you're not the only one having yolo production issues xD
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22:39:28  <_dp_> oh, so server client name also can't be empty now...
22:39:38  <_dp_> wonder if I can hack around that
22:42:59  <_dp_> also public servers now start as local when using the old config
22:43:41  <_dp_> though I guess that's not an issue since config compatibility was never a thing
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23:28:57  <glx> _dp_: I think the intended conversion was advertised -> public
23:29:06  <glx> maybe that does not work
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