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00:32:14 *** glx has quit IRC 00:32:35 *** glx has joined #openttd 00:49:14 *** glx has quit IRC 00:49:39 *** glx has joined #openttd 01:11:54 *** Beer has quit IRC 01:36:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #9544: Change: Make pf.yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol on by default https://git.io/JuG1M 01:49:15 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 02:18:36 *** glx has quit IRC 02:26:14 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 02:29:34 *** debdog has quit IRC 03:52:35 *** _aD has quit IRC 04:29:56 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 06:36:37 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 06:53:38 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:57:41 <peter1138> Reddit servers also have stupid rules 07:27:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #9542: Fix #9241: Grove and forest tree brushes also create rainforests https://git.io/JuZDf 07:33:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #9543: Feature #9523: Display icon or text in vehicle list or in vehicle window indicating whether a vehicle is lost https://git.io/JuZyL 07:37:32 *** Etua has joined #openttd 07:37:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #9539: Doc: Multiplayer https://git.io/JuZSv 07:42:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #9538: Fix #9535: Maintain a reverse dependency map of network content https://git.io/JuZ9t 08:03:27 <TrueBrain> Wwwwhhhhiiiieeee, review spree 08:03:30 <peter1138> How to people put up with MS Outlook. It's so confusing and shit. 08:03:48 <TrueBrain> I have btw on my agenda to rework the multiplayer docs.. they are a bit outdated in general :) 08:05:00 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: unexpectedly, -the- PR triggered drama on reddit, not ttforums :p 08:05:33 <TrueBrain> Too bad I cannot find my reddit credentials on my mobile :D 08:07:55 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:18:35 <_dp_> peter1138, what rule do you mean? 08:19:17 <_dp_> also rules usually exist to cover for the defficienciess of the game so it's a good question what exactly is stupid here ;P 08:20:38 <peter1138> Actually didn't the reddit servers shut down. So doesn't matter. 08:21:06 <_dp_> nah, they just changed maintainer 08:24:22 <peter1138> The reddit post about it doesn't suggest that. 08:25:25 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 08:25:38 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 08:32:36 <_dp_> well, post is how it started 08:32:57 <_dp_> but effectively more or less the same servers are now maintained by FlowSkate 08:37:27 <peter1138> Rule 3 is the stupid one. And in many cases players will break Rule 2 to enforce Rule 3. 08:38:11 <andythenorth> are rules 1 to 3 "be nice, it's just cartoon trains"? 08:38:29 <peter1138> Rule 1 is, indeed, Be Nice to Each Other. 08:39:42 <peter1138> Actually Rule 4 is about City Building/Blocking but actually rambles on and includes a exception to Rule 2 to account for Rule 3. So... 08:39:43 <_dp_> peter1138, and what's your solution for rule 3? no competition or free competition? 08:39:48 <peter1138> Fre 08:39:54 <peter1138> Free competition. 08:40:26 <peter1138> Play co-op if you don't want competition. 08:41:32 <_dp_> that's even more stupid when someone takes hours to bring stuff to the factory and then other player just makes a station in a second and takes half of it 08:42:26 <_dp_> it's not about "want" competition, it's about "can" 08:42:40 <_dp_> despite looking like a competitive game competition on openttd is very-very broken 08:43:09 <andythenorth> I played loads of MP recently, competition is fine 08:43:14 <andythenorth> Scuddles nearly always loses 08:43:16 <andythenorth> me or Pikka win 08:43:19 <_dp_> andythenorth, you played with nice people 08:43:39 <andythenorth> isn't that rule 0? 08:44:33 <Timberwolf> Are you still doing 7 year nocargoal on large maps? 08:44:38 *** y2kboy23 has quit IRC 08:45:06 <_dp_> andythenorth, yes, but what defines being nice if we talk about ingame actions? 08:45:23 <Timberwolf> I think that setup promotes a kind of social multiplayer, where you're playing largely independent games but sharing a big map and all at the same time. 08:45:38 <Timberwolf> The competition there is definitely who can build smartest and fastest. 08:45:39 <_dp_> usually people just agree on some unspoken rules like no blocking, no griefing, limited competition, etc 08:45:50 <Timberwolf> (I have a tendency to lose with a sprawling network on those games :) ) 08:47:04 <_dp_> I actually want to make an anarchy server one day just to see how shit can escalate if not restricted xD 08:47:54 <_dp_> and not just your average random server anarchy but a serious competitive one with a goal and elo ratingss 08:48:20 <Timberwolf> For a true anarchy server you want a setting to bring back all the griefing bugs from TT/TTD (like taking over road ownership with level crossings, trains running on competitors track for ~0.5 tiles before turning back, competitor track influencing signalling...) 08:49:06 <_dp_> like openttd doesn't have enough as it is :p 08:49:07 <andythenorth> Timberwolf yes 7 year NCG seems to be the winner for casual MP 08:49:31 <andythenorth> if I want to play with toxic untrustworthy randoms, World Of Tanks Blitz does that so much better 08:49:35 <andythenorth> really 08:49:44 <_dp_> I'm actually planning on having server enforcing some order as much as it can 08:49:53 <Timberwolf> Duerklink did an "anything goes" OpenRCT2 server and it seemed to follow a cyclic pattern of "someone builds something sensible", "someone builds something silly and/or crude", "someone just deletes everything on the map" 08:49:55 <_dp_> just no written rules, do everything you can 08:52:08 <_dp_> btw, I was actually thinking of some automatic solution for primary industry competition but it seems impossible 08:52:49 <_dp_> because only GS understands goal and penalties but only newgrf control station rating 08:52:50 <_dp_> gg 08:55:19 <Timberwolf> I guess the common multiplayer etiquette would equate to, "first person to serve the industry gets the amount of cargo determined by their station rating, then second person gets only a percentage of what remains, and so on" 08:55:38 <Timberwolf> But it gets a bit awkward around secondary industries. 08:56:19 <Timberwolf> Should "first" be the first person to deliver cargo, or pick it up? 08:57:21 <Timberwolf> And then it gets awkward because the output is tied to the station not the player, so how do you handle players having a different load/unload station, or indeed demolishing their original station and building another. 08:58:25 <Timberwolf> Plus what happens if two different players boost an industry (especially if it's something like FIRS where a small amount of cargo could massively increase output by completing a list of requirements) 09:07:09 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 09:11:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #9544: Change: Make pf.yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol on by default https://git.io/JunI8 09:18:01 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd 09:18:28 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC 09:19:49 <peter1138> It would be wrong to have two pain-au-chocolat, right? 09:28:12 <LordAro> no 09:39:55 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 09:39:55 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 09:40:05 *** _aD has joined #openttd 09:44:47 *** Strom has quit IRC 09:46:25 *** Strom has joined #openttd 09:46:46 *** tokai has quit IRC 10:02:46 *** roadt__ has quit IRC 10:03:12 *** roadt__ has joined #openttd 10:07:45 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] vituscze commented on pull request #9542: Fix #9241: Grove and forest tree brushes also create rainforests https://git.io/Junlb 10:11:52 *** Samu has joined #openttd 10:16:01 <Samu> hi 10:35:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #9543: Feature #9523: Display icon or text in vehicle list or in vehicle window indicating whether a vehicle is lost https://git.io/Juq19 10:43:24 <Samu> hmm, it doesn't immediately pick up path found once it's fixed, looks weird on trains 10:46:50 *** _aD has quit IRC 10:57:43 <FLHerne> Samu: really nice patch :-) 11:04:39 <Samu> thx 11:09:28 <Samu> I think "cannot reach" is the wrong phrasing 11:09:40 <Samu> "may not reach" 11:09:46 <Samu> would seem better 11:11:10 <Samu> sometimes it says cannot reach and yet it finds it 11:11:32 <LordAro> "cannot find" maybe? 11:17:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #9544: Change: Make pf.yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol on by default https://git.io/Junib 11:58:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #9544: Change: Make pf.yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol on by default https://git.io/Jun7d 12:06:08 <peter1138> I guess I will go on a short ride later and find out if my cassette and chainrings need replacing... 12:08:12 *** glx has joined #openttd 12:08:12 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 12:26:12 *** Wuzzy has joined #openttd 12:36:35 <FLHerne> Do chainrings ever need replacing? 12:37:10 <FLHerne> I'm about to fit the third new cassette since I bought this bike, and probably the umpteenth given it's older than I am 12:38:02 <FLHerne> Chainring seems original and there's no noticeable wear 12:39:52 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 12:42:14 <andythenorth> single cog or multiple cog? 12:43:15 <andythenorth> and is rear derailleur or hub? 12:50:22 <peter1138> FLHerne, yes. 12:51:08 <peter1138> Anyway I took it for a spin and... jumps on 1 of the sprockets... arse. 12:51:15 <andythenorth> 20 years ago I used to ride 18 speed or 21 speed mountain bikes with quite low end Shimano groupsets 12:51:23 <andythenorth> they would go through chain rings quite fast 12:52:23 <FLHerne> Mine's a single 48T chainring, SR, early 90s 12:53:31 <FLHerne> I assume it had a six- or seven-speed freewheel originally, but the previous owner changed it to single-speed and then I put an 8-speed Shimano cassette hub on 12:53:52 <andythenorth> my hub gear hybrid has constant tension, chain ring probably lasts forever on that 12:54:40 <andythenorth> raleigh bikes I had as a kid...we literally used to round the teeth off 12:54:54 <andythenorth> we had one where they were all gone, so the game was trying to ride it 12:55:44 <peter1138> I've never worn teeth off... 12:56:05 <peter1138> I did have a triple with very very pointy teeth on the middle ring, though. 12:56:47 <andythenorth> https://www.parktool.com/assets/img/repairhelp/FDTrouble_004.jpg 12:57:13 <andythenorth> if they get to that stage, the chain slips a lot, so they quickly just disappear 12:57:21 <andythenorth> quite fun 13:01:37 <peter1138> Ok if I have to buy from Wiggle, what else do I need? 13:02:31 <peter1138> Brake pads I guess. 13:02:59 <andythenorth> fancy lights 13:32:31 *** Speeder_ has joined #openttd 13:32:50 <LordAro> https://www.dropbox.com/s/07g9mzxun1o58q9/img-20210702-wa0002.jpeg?dl=0 here's my last chainring, just before it was replaced 13:33:16 <LordAro> interacted badly with the new chain (& cassette) and chain kept falling off 13:33:38 <LordAro> i say "just before" i think it did another few hundred miles 13:40:03 *** Speeder__ has quit IRC 13:41:00 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 13:47:09 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd 13:53:49 <andythenorth> that's gone well 14:02:22 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC 14:02:36 *** y2kboy23 has joined #openttd 14:03:42 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 14:05:26 <peter1138> LordAro, yeah that's worse than mine. 14:05:56 <peter1138> I thought I'd barely ridden this bike, but 5000km is a bit more than that. 14:06:38 <peter1138> And because it's a tourer it uses a triple chainset so they're harder to source. 14:07:05 <peter1138> Spa cycles have loads that fit old-style square bottom brackets, but this is Hollowtech II, so ... meh. 14:07:22 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 14:07:34 <peter1138> I hate the square spindles, I put out enough power that the chainrings never staight aligned on them. 14:07:42 <peter1138> ... *stay* 14:08:09 <peter1138> I can see a 105 triple for £150, that'd be a minor upgrade :D 14:10:06 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 14:10:09 <peter1138> LordAro, also is that paint peeling off? 14:13:15 <peter1138> https://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-tiagra-4703-triple-10-speed-chainset 14:13:23 <peter1138> Oh. Now I know the part number I could've just ordered it... 14:13:39 <peter1138> In theory the rings can be bought separately but. 14:22:29 <LordAro> peter1138: no, that's chunks taken out of the teeth 14:23:10 <peter1138> I was looking at the chainstay. 14:23:19 <LordAro> oh, on the frame? that's the silicone frame protection 14:23:24 <peter1138> Ahh 14:24:02 <glx> ah yes it's almost written on it 14:24:16 <peter1138> https://twitter.com/righttobikeit/status/1435225160739704841 fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu 14:24:55 <LordAro> peter1138: most of my bike friends are having difficulty getting hold of any parts at all, so if you've found something that's available... 14:25:07 <peter1138> I'll snap it up, stock pile it :D 14:44:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] vituscze commented on pull request #9544: Change: Make pf.yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol on by default https://git.io/JuclX 15:06:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] V453000 commented on pull request #9544: Change: Make pf.yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol on by default https://git.io/Juc0U 15:11:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] V453000 commented on pull request #9544: Change: Make pf.yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol on by default https://git.io/JucEt 15:29:59 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 15:30:29 <peter1138> Nice, I can buy one pair of pad for £9.99, or four pairs of pads for £39.99... 15:35:09 <glx> four one pair is 0.03 less 15:41:36 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:50:55 *** tokai has joined #openttd 15:50:56 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 15:56:01 <TrueBrain> Lol .. sometimes I am unclear if people agree or disagree with a change .. that last reply has me confused :D 15:56:48 <TrueBrain> Or is it just a bit of trivia? 15:57:51 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 16:15:43 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:18:53 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 16:19:10 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 16:22:29 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 16:51:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on discussion #8397: Daylength https://git.io/Jus1L 16:52:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on discussion #8397: Daylength https://git.io/Jus1L 16:52:41 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 17:08:15 *** _aD has joined #openttd 17:24:48 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:40:17 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 18:03:08 *** Flygon has quit IRC 18:08:14 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 18:13:01 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 18:23:56 <frosch123> how about adding 4 new block signal types? so we can have both twoway behaviors :p 18:24:32 <andythenorth_> add 8 18:24:34 <andythenorth_> twice as good 18:26:05 <TrueBrain> now revert that, and you found your optimum! 18:27:09 <_aD> frosch123: Do y'all wait for me to join to start this conversation? 18:27:11 <frosch123> actually.. i think the coop-twoway use-case does not need the difference normal/enter/exit/combo 18:27:16 <_aD> I fear you're somehow reading my savegames. 18:27:38 <frosch123> so, it would only need a 5th advanced-twoway-blocksignal 18:28:09 <peter1138> No entry path-signal without the path signal bit... 18:28:15 <frosch123> _aD: don't worry, we don't read savegames ourselves. we have ais for that 18:28:18 <_aD> :-D 18:28:38 <_aD> No entry at any time block signal. 18:28:41 <peter1138> Also put signals between tiles instead of on them. (I think someone tried that once) 18:29:01 <peter1138> rm -rf blocksignals 18:29:40 <_aD> No entry if you're an unreliable diesel junker two-way block signal. 18:33:41 <TrueBrain> +1 peter1138 :) 18:35:24 <TrueBrain> lets begin a movement 18:39:40 <_dp_> make twoway eol a company setting ;) 18:41:25 <_dp_> though I'm yet to see anyone who voluntarily prefers to play without eol 18:42:46 <frosch123> check irc logs from before february 2010 :) 18:43:43 <frosch123> obviously you only notice people who play with settings which differ from the default 18:44:09 <andythenorth_> how about 18:44:23 <andythenorth_> a web-based OpenTTD configurator? 18:44:29 <andythenorth_> so you choose what you want 18:44:32 <frosch123> which of the 5? 18:44:33 <andythenorth_> then it builds you a binary 18:45:28 <andythenorth_> no more forum arguments, yes / no? 18:45:48 <frosch123> shall we make a strawpoll? 18:46:36 <andythenorth_> from straw, yes 18:47:15 <frosch123> the straw is still outside on the fields drying 18:47:31 <frosch123> is it already straw? or just mown grass? 18:48:04 <andythenorth_> this is the problem with time-dependent truths 18:48:16 <andythenorth_> in some sense it might be straw 18:48:49 <_aD> andythenorth_: can we have a poll on which compiler flags it should use? 18:48:55 <andythenorth_> you can 18:49:01 <_aD> and which optimiser utilities 18:49:13 * _aD looks for some other bike sheds to nail on 18:49:18 <andythenorth_> well...just make them configuration options? 18:50:29 <Rubidium> andythenorth_: obviously -O31337 ;) 18:50:49 <_aD> Having reached the Chimaera but with 4x wagon weight, realistic acceleration and 10-length trains, I am going to need more main lines :-\ 18:51:21 <_aD> it accelerates as impressively as a Kirby Paul. 18:54:42 <frosch123> add more engines to the same train? 18:56:18 <_dp_> frosch123, what happened in feb 2010? 18:56:44 <frosch123> the default for the setting was changed to the current value 18:57:05 <frosch123> it was on in 0.5-0.7, off since 1.0 18:57:17 <_dp_> oh, lol 18:57:28 <_dp_> and when were path signals added? 18:57:35 <frosch123> 0.7 18:57:51 <_dp_> so doesn't count :p 18:58:24 <andythenorth_> lol everything about this signals debate :P 19:00:55 <_aD> Uphill-only one-way path signal 19:01:05 <_aD> "Train 47 is lost trying to go uphill" 19:01:49 <_dp_> just add implicit pbs for every rail piece! :p 19:01:52 <_aD> how about an evolution of the semaphor signal to the High-Rise Semaphore Tower, for use with planes? 19:02:18 <_aD> GNU Yate Haugen 19:03:29 <peter1138> Add Realistic Signals... 19:04:16 <peter1138> Early in the game you need to build signal boxes and employ people to control them... 19:04:47 <peter1138> (No don't) 19:04:49 <_aD> And if your locale is British, they cannot be replaced until they're over 60 years old. 19:05:21 <_aD> Ticket prices are so high that the highest rating for stations is "Incandescently Angry" 19:05:21 <peter1138> Beeching comes along and removes half your lines... 19:05:52 <_aD> and then builds a quadrillion miles of roads across fragile heathlands and floodland? 19:05:54 <peter1138> New Disaster, wrong type of snow. 19:06:01 <peter1138> _aD, and houses. 19:06:30 <_aD> peter1138: Have you ever seen and heard the plasma apparatuse they use to scour leaf debris from rails? 19:06:46 <_aD> I was waiting at a level crossing one night, on my bicycle. It was like an act of the Train Gods. 19:07:24 <glx> ah it's possible to remove leafs from rails ? 19:07:25 <_aD> An engineering loco went by with one such device and it was like purple fury attacking the rails. 19:07:26 <frosch123> _aD: rename "breakdowns" to "strikes"? this engine has the driving cab in the front, it has a high chance to trigger a strike? 19:07:51 <_aD> glx: It is a genuinly extremely difficult problem to solve. 19:08:15 <glx> SNCF doesn't know how to do it 19:08:19 <_aD> particularly with a fragile, over-worked, underfunded network like the IK... 19:08:20 <_aD> UK* 19:08:46 <_aD> The weight applied to leaves and the cellulose create some wacky chemistry with the rail heads. 19:09:14 <glx> a nice friction less layer yes 19:09:21 <_aD> when they're running prototypes with literal plasma torches, you know they're not messing about. Well, they surely are, because who wouldn't on a Plasma Train, but still. 19:09:51 <_aD> anyhoo, first and last time you'll ever hear me backing up the "UK railway line shut again because of the slightest weather" 19:10:53 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 19:11:47 <glx> snow is a nice issue too (especially when it starts to melt after being accumulated on the roof) 19:11:59 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 19:12:30 <glx> where the power transformers are located 19:13:54 <_aD> Watching videos of snow plough trains never gets old! 19:14:14 <_aD> There's some mental designs out there and they seem to...work. 19:21:55 <Rubidium> glx: oh, I see SNCF/RFF finally gone electric with their measurement trains ;) 19:22:34 <glx> but some lines are still not electrified 19:23:51 <Rubidium> well... the old ones did not need electricity/power at all https://twitter.com/barbatvincent/status/956870898098888704 19:24:29 <andythenorth_> peter1138 you have to manually set signals 19:24:47 <andythenorth_> we have a 4 foot x 2 foot train oval with a signal 19:24:50 <andythenorth_> it has a switch red/green 19:25:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison dismissed a review for pull request #9538: Fix #9535: Maintain a reverse dependency map of network content https://git.io/JuqX4 19:25:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison updated pull request #9538: Fix #9535: Maintain a reverse dependency map of network content https://git.io/JuUAE 19:25:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #9538: Fix #9535: Maintain a reverse dependency map of network content https://git.io/JuCtD 19:27:34 <andythenorth_> hmm 19:27:46 * andythenorth_ debates semantics of html naming things with self 19:27:49 <andythenorth_> nope 19:27:54 <andythenorth_> thing_1, thing_2, thing_3 19:28:01 <andythenorth_> much better than semantics :P 19:28:13 <andythenorth_> thing_wider, thing_narrower etc will just age badly 19:28:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #9538: Fix #9535: Maintain a reverse dependency map of network content https://git.io/JuCtA 19:30:53 <_dp_> dunno why but I found the eol change commit: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/68b908a27cdcd93549eac710efc6b4db8d5de205 19:31:04 <_dp_> it's as uninformative as expected 19:33:05 <LordAro> it's Eddi|zuHause's fault! 19:33:09 <frosch123> you have to read irc logs :) 19:33:18 <frosch123> anyway, the reason is simple 19:33:53 <frosch123> twoway block was the default signal. every new player uses twoway block signals for everything 19:34:04 <frosch123> then they learn that they do not work, and start using oneway signals 19:34:38 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: i still have some leftovers from this patch that weren't included 19:34:43 <frosch123> now coop changes the "useless but most basic signal" into "useful signal completely unrelated to oneway block signals" 19:35:14 <frosch123> i am convinced that the clean solution would be to add another block signal type, but noone is going to put in that effort :p 19:35:30 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: i'm fairly sure that all of those changes had a lengthy discussion around them 19:35:51 <frosch123> twoway block signal with coop behavior is just entirely different to regular block signals 19:35:59 *** Progman has quit IRC 19:36:00 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, but it's hard to find 19:36:13 <_dp_> also not sure old discussions are really relevant anymore 19:36:14 <andythenorth_> presumably I'm the only person who just uses PBS? 19:36:17 <_dp_> lots of things changed 19:36:32 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth_: no, any sane person should use only PBS 19:36:38 <frosch123> all the sillyness comes from default-twoway-block signals being so useless 19:36:40 <frosch123> so, blame TTO :p 19:37:32 <_dp_> so it's CS's fault as usual? :p 19:38:00 <Rubidium> yes. Did he consult you for the design? 19:38:33 <Rubidium> I guess he didn't, so anything that doesn't work how you want it is because he did not take your wishes into account when writing the game ;) 19:40:01 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, what was the actual discussion about the settings? 19:41:00 <_dp_> I guess https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9544 19:41:33 <_dp_> and #8688 is the main reason imo 19:42:16 <_dp_> as new players aren't even supposed to use block signals any more 19:44:03 *** Progman has joined #openttd 19:46:53 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: i may be misunderstanding things, but "coop-style gameplay needs this setting to be on" is the opposite of "this should be the default value" 19:47:36 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, do you really want to revert all settings that coop leaves on default values? xDDD 19:47:38 *** Samu_ has joined #openttd 19:48:06 <Eddi|zuHause> yes? :p 19:48:25 <Eddi|zuHause> in my experience, it's a good heuristic :) 19:54:11 *** Samu has quit IRC 19:58:34 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 20:24:09 <andythenorth_> lol gmail is having certificate issues? 20:24:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #9542: Fix #9241: Grove and forest tree brushes also create rainforests https://git.io/JuCGz 20:31:17 <andythenorth_> lol gmail is fine 20:31:46 <andythenorth_> I set my clock forwarded to test date-expiring thing locally, and forgot 20:31:48 <andythenorth_> what clown shoes 20:32:00 <LordAro> lol 20:40:24 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 20:51:29 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:57:42 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: PBS signals are ugly 20:57:49 <FLHerne> except at junctions 20:58:25 <Eddi|zuHause> what would the junction do to the uglyness? 20:58:31 <FLHerne> What I need is a patch for PBS signals to look like one-way block signals if there's only one path 20:58:39 <FLHerne> and then I'd only build PBS 20:59:20 <FLHerne> It seems to make sense for junction signals to stand out more 20:59:47 <FLHerne> and for UK-style semaphores the PBS sprite is a junction signal with two arms 21:00:08 <andythenorth_> weird game is weird 21:00:11 <andythenorth_> with weird players 21:00:13 <FLHerne> maybe the latter is only with UKRS2, I can't remember what's what anymore :p 21:00:19 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:02:18 <FLHerne> Despite that, I do agree with hiding block signals by default, it'll confuse the newbies less 21:03:26 <FLHerne> and that being the case, I think 2-way EOL is the obvious choice, because no-one who knows how to un-hide block signals would intentionally build 2-way signals without that 21:04:00 <FLHerne> Data from before people got used to having path signals isn't relevant anymore 21:05:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think you have any statistics supporting that claim 21:08:28 <FLHerne> No-one else has any statistics supporting their claim :D 21:08:54 <FLHerne> Clearly the answer is to add telemetry 21:09:41 <FLHerne> then everyone will be too busy with that flamewar to care about signals 21:12:53 <andythenorth_> that would raise the game fast 21:13:03 <andythenorth_> it's funny how resistant to change the game is 21:15:09 <glx> it's not the game, it's the users :) 21:20:44 <andythenorth_> trees, forest, falling etc 21:28:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] vituscze dismissed a review for pull request #9542: Fix #9241: Grove and forest tree brushes also create rainforests https://git.io/JuqXc 21:28:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] vituscze updated pull request #9542: Fix #9241: Grove and forest tree brushes also create rainforests https://git.io/JutMB 21:33:54 *** Samu_ has quit IRC 21:34:37 * _aD plants trees of random type in andythenorth_ 's back yard 21:34:50 <andythenorth_> you what now? :) 21:34:54 <_aD> (that should appease him, quick make distasteful changes!) 21:42:44 *** Etua has quit IRC 21:43:06 *** Etua has joined #openttd 21:49:23 <_dp_> changed signal sprites to better fit new gui: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/337701432230805505/884918178445148210/Screenshot_from_2021-09-08_00-48-42.png 21:49:42 <_dp_> (don't ask me why I made it an actual newgrf) 21:50:29 <andythenorth_> first funny thing I've seen in this debate :D 21:52:41 *** Etua has quit IRC 21:52:58 *** Etua has joined #openttd 21:54:54 <_aD> Hahaha 21:59:36 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:00:59 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 22:01:00 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 22:07:44 *** tokai has quit IRC 22:10:19 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 22:12:09 *** Wuzzy has quit IRC 22:14:22 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:33:11 *** tokai has joined #openttd 22:33:12 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 22:39:47 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd 22:39:57 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC 22:45:34 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 22:53:43 *** Etua has quit IRC 23:09:44 *** nielsm has quit IRC