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00:03:40 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 00:03:47 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 00:07:42 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 00:07:44 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 00:59:55 *** Fuco has quit IRC 01:44:34 *** _aD has quit IRC 02:15:44 *** debdog has joined #openttd 02:19:05 *** D-HUND has quit IRC 02:41:46 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 02:56:22 *** glx has quit IRC 04:43:27 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 04:57:01 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 04:57:06 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 05:01:11 *** crem has quit IRC 06:30:43 *** crem has joined #openttd 06:37:37 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:38:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on discussion #8397: Daylength https://git.io/Jus1L 06:39:14 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 06:40:07 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 06:44:09 *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd 06:48:15 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 06:48:39 *** Gustavo6046_ is now known as Gustavo6046 06:54:12 *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd 06:57:35 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 06:57:49 *** Gustavo6046_ is now known as Gustavo6046 07:02:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] LordAro closed issue #249: [hu_HU] Translator access request https://git.io/JuEbj 07:03:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] LordAro commented on issue #249: [hu_HU] Translator access request https://git.io/JuEbj 07:04:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] LordAro commented on issue #251: [ru_RU] Translator access request https://git.io/JuPyz 07:04:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] LordAro commented on issue #253: [ga_IE] Translator access request https://git.io/JuxqA 07:27:19 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 08:07:56 *** katp32 has joined #openttd 08:08:52 <katp32> heyo, by default the interface is waayy too small to be usable for me, but if I set it to double size, then it also makes the cursor comically large. is there a way to change the interface size without affecting the size of the cursor.. 08:15:01 <LordAro> none that i'm aware of, i'm afraid 08:15:15 <LordAro> what do you class as "comically large" ? usually it matches the interface quite well 08:16:31 <katp32> at normal scaling it's fine, but at double scaling the mouse cursor is ~twice as large as the interface buttons, and at 4x scaling the mouse is so large that it becomes difficult to even click the buttons due to the fact that it obscures the entire thing 08:17:46 <LordAro> seems alright to me 08:17:50 <_dp_> katp32, you can try to increase font size as well to increase buttons 08:17:53 <LordAro> are you increasing the font size at the same time as the interface? 08:18:14 <katp32> no, not changing the font size at the same time 08:18:20 <LordAro> try that :) 08:18:25 <LordAro> otherwise post a screenshot of what you're seeing 08:18:52 <_dp_> though ingame cursor is about twice as large as the system cursor for me as well 08:18:56 <_dp_> but I'm used to it by now 08:19:24 <katp32> yea, I wish the cursor just stayed the same as the system cursor... 08:19:57 <katp32> cursor capture also doesn't seem to work on Wayland but that's not a big deal 08:20:58 <LordAro> the cursor has several different variants, which makes just using the system cursor non-ideal 08:21:01 <LordAro> cursor capture? 08:21:31 <katp32> making the cursor not actually move when dragging the viewport (and when turned on in settings) 08:21:54 <LordAro> curious 08:22:49 <LordAro> i'd guess an SDL bug 08:22:55 <katp32> possibly 08:23:27 *** Samu has joined #openttd 08:25:31 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:25:45 <andythenorth> I'm wrong and you backlog defenders are right :) https://thenewstack.io/mary-poppendieck-on-why-you-should-just-burn-your-backlog/ 08:25:47 <andythenorth> (at the end) 08:26:15 * andythenorth tends to pay attention to Poppendiek writing 08:28:34 <LordAro> katp32: regardless, would appreciate a proper bug report so that it can be investigated 08:28:38 <LordAro> as this is the first i've heard of it 08:33:04 *** felix has quit IRC 08:34:46 *** katp32 has quit IRC 08:44:42 *** felix has joined #openttd 08:53:45 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 09:01:55 <Samu> hmm my AI is leaving stopped ships in depots for years, I failed somewhere 09:10:16 *** Etua has joined #openttd 10:09:15 <FLHerne> andythenorth[m]: hm, someone agrees 10:09:44 <FLHerne> maybe this tagging thing is the best of both worlds? 10:11:02 <FLHerne> we get a list of bugs people have cared to report, and also a list of ones tagged (priority: high) or whatever that are the ones that are actually important short-term 10:56:06 <Samu> I think I spotted the problem! 10:56:20 <Samu> vehicle_ready_to_start was not being set properly 11:01:53 <Samu> confirmed! problem really solved! yay 11:13:22 *** Fuco has joined #openttd 11:14:33 <peter1138> Oh no, I need to come up with project timescales :( 11:15:38 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 11:16:59 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 11:57:14 *** Fuco has quit IRC 12:13:14 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 12:13:15 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 12:19:44 *** tokai has quit IRC 12:21:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] glx22 updated pull request #72: Add: [Actions] Make NML warnings more visible in pull requests https://git.io/JuTN5 12:22:39 *** glx has joined #openttd 12:22:39 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 12:32:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] glx22 commented on pull request #72: Add: [Actions] Make NML warnings more visible in pull requests https://git.io/Jujmm 12:33:10 <glx> and all warnings are gone 12:33:26 <LordAro> :) 12:34:17 <glx> gimp wanting to store iCCP chunk is really annoying 12:35:18 <LordAro> 30kB gone from terrain.xcf, is all the information still there? 12:36:23 <glx> I just changed 7 pixels 12:36:44 <LordAro> very good 12:37:02 <glx> and different layers are selected as I worked on different parts 12:37:26 <glx> I don't know the xcf format but maybe that explains the difference in size 12:39:55 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 12:42:05 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 12:53:53 <Eddi|zuHause> yay, finally openttd in java 12:54:36 <Eddi|zuHause> an over 10 years outdated version of openttd ported to java is what the world needed 13:07:06 <LordAro> "it is based on a version that, to my opinion had the best implementation of rail signals" 13:07:09 <LordAro> uh. 13:10:00 <glx> funny, initial import also includes all .svn subdirs 13:15:29 <LordAro> "Also, C code was easier to port to different language, than C++." i suspect this may be the true reason 13:19:30 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 13:19:33 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 13:23:58 *** Fuco has joined #openttd 13:27:54 <Samu> something happened to english.txt, im getting weird conflicts 13:28:55 <Samu> i suspect this https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/9c74dc2468afbcbfb2acbee4ac6a56c7a8173529 13:29:32 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 13:29:46 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 13:29:47 <glx> this commit is fine 13:30:06 *** Wuzzy has joined #openttd 13:30:30 *** Fuco has quit IRC 13:30:49 <LordAro> it does have a high chance of causing conflicts if you modify english.txt though :p 13:31:05 <glx> of course, but that's the fun part of a rebase 13:32:09 <LordAro> it also includes the string 'AIRACRAFT' 13:32:35 <Samu> what is this ###length 15 used for 13:32:45 <Samu> do i have to edit if I add strings? 13:32:47 <glx> for validation 13:32:59 <glx> size of the menu usually 13:33:22 <glx> or number of related strings 13:33:32 <Samu> how do i run this string validator locally? 13:33:41 <LordAro> on windows? with difficulty 13:34:02 <glx> it's a python script 13:34:16 <LordAro> glx: are you going to walk Samu through installing python? 13:34:20 <glx> no 13:34:29 <Samu> python for windows is a thing? :p 13:34:34 <LordAro> of course 13:35:11 <Samu> i think im changing that length to 16, i remove 1 stirng and add 2 13:35:16 <glx> windows even launch the store if you try to run python 13:35:23 <LordAro> @calc 15 - 1 + 2 13:35:23 <DorpsGek> LordAro: 16 13:35:27 <LordAro> good bet. 13:35:44 <Samu> but no way to verify, not that it matters I guess 13:35:57 <LordAro> no, OTTD itself doesn't care 13:36:05 <LordAro> (nor OTTD compile) 13:37:06 <glx> I don't really see where you are touching strings with ###length 15 13:38:19 <Samu> I removed this one STR_FRAMETIME_CAPTION_AI 13:38:58 <Samu> added STR_FRAMETIME_CAPTION_AI_MAXOPCODE to replace it, and STR_FRAMETIME_CAPTION_GS_MAXOPCODE for GS'es 13:39:12 <glx> ah ok, indeed 13:39:49 <glx> yes update the length then 13:40:03 <Samu> it's my Self-adjusting opcodes thingy 13:43:07 *** morbidbird has joined #openttd 13:46:38 <morbidbird> hi 13:48:52 <Samu> i dont understand why the order of some strings were swapped 13:49:32 <glx> it's all explained in the PR 13:50:10 <glx> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9518 13:58:06 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 14:32:15 *** Wuzzy has quit IRC 14:33:59 *** morbidbird has quit IRC 14:34:26 *** Etua has quit IRC 14:51:31 <Samu> i wonder if my ai can get 5000 ships * 15 on a 4096x4096 map, I suspect it can, but let's test 14:52:00 <Samu> let alone 5000 rv+5000 ac 15:10:54 *** esselfe has joined #openttd 16:03:45 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 16:14:55 <frosch123> finally there is an option for people who want to play with the original AI :) 16:16:43 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 16:19:27 <LordAro> lol 16:26:52 <TrueBrain> I cannot believe that is the post that summons frosch123 :P 16:27:16 <frosch123> it was very entertaining 16:27:39 <frosch123> someone woke up from cryptosleep after 16 years 16:27:39 <TrueBrain> and the first reply is just lolz 16:27:51 <TrueBrain> like, that is the point you went: nonono? 16:27:53 <LordAro> it was /interesting/ enough that i posted for the first time in 6 months 16:28:10 <TrueBrain> so this is it, I guess 16:28:11 <TrueBrain> the end 16:28:18 <TrueBrain> the one thing that wakes up all devs, is a post about Java 16:28:19 <TrueBrain> :D 16:28:46 <TrueBrain> I did weirder shit in my life, so I am not judging :) 16:28:47 <LordAro> i started the day by getting inexplicable errors from maven, tbf 16:29:03 <TrueBrain> I just received a sentry report I did not expect 16:29:17 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i never have the endurance to spend 1 months to port a few 100k lines :) 16:29:23 <frosch123> so i would never achieved that 16:29:36 <TrueBrain> I did OpenDUNE .. what can I say .. 16:29:47 <LordAro> and all of OTTD's infrastructure :p 16:30:05 <TrueBrain> that is sensible (isn't it? :D) 16:30:33 <TrueBrain> too bad he ported such an old version .. makes multiplayer a lot harder :P 16:30:36 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd 16:30:40 <LordAro> haha 16:30:41 <frosch123> but the choice "old ai" and "no yapf or anything important today" is way weirder than choosing "java". 16:30:52 <frosch123> obviously he played the original TTD, but probably never ttdp or ottd 16:31:10 <frosch123> oh right, jDrive is way closer to original TTD than to OpenTTD 12 :) 16:31:16 <TrueBrain> I would have written scripts to do the conversion, honestly :) 16:31:16 <frosch123> it's really a port of TTD, not of OTTD 16:31:56 <frosch123> https://github.com/dzavalishin/jdrive/blob/master/converting_c_to_java.md <- that's the best part though :) 16:32:10 <frosch123> quite sure we still have some cases of using comma-operator in weird places :) 16:32:57 <TrueBrain> maybe he can now explain how the rv takeover code works? 16:33:19 <frosch123> no, he ported ottd 0.4.something 16:33:31 <frosch123> rv takeover is probably from ottd 0.6/0.7 16:33:38 <frosch123> with trams and articulated vehicles 16:33:46 <TrueBrain> booooo 16:34:16 <TrueBrain> I like it when people do crazy shit :D This should go on the wall :) 16:38:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain opened pull request #62: Fix: setting up a websocket connection causes an exception https://git.io/JzeWx 16:38:40 <TrueBrain> found the reason sentry complained :) 16:42:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain merged pull request #62: Fix: setting up a websocket connection causes an exception https://git.io/JzeWx 16:42:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.4.2 https://git.io/JzelH 16:46:43 <LordAro> TrueBrain: did you get an exception when andy tried to upload a (ogfx) zip ? 16:46:55 <TrueBrain> a few days ago? 16:46:57 <LordAro> yeah 16:47:03 <TrueBrain> you digging up old news? :P 16:47:12 <LordAro> possibly 16:47:12 <TrueBrain> tldr: wasn't my fault 16:47:18 <TrueBrain> only important part :) 16:47:19 <LordAro> i didn't see anything about it being fixed 16:47:21 <LordAro> :p 16:47:36 <TrueBrain> I have to fix it some day, but the fix will be to refuse it without the 500 16:47:39 <TrueBrain> it was still invalid :) 16:47:48 <LordAro> hehe 16:47:57 <TrueBrain> glx is doing the real work :) 16:48:15 <TrueBrain> guess 7.1 is around the corner? :) 16:48:37 <TrueBrain> (in case you missed it, OpenGFX generated an obg that was an invalid ini-file) 16:48:52 <TrueBrain> because some translator decided to add a case-variant 16:49:02 <TrueBrain> no clue why or how that is possible .. but that happened :) 16:49:09 <LordAro> oh, was that the cause of the error? rather than because it was a zip 16:49:22 <TrueBrain> that was causing the 500 16:49:25 <TrueBrain> no clue about zip etc 16:49:53 <TrueBrain> maybe frosch123 knows, but this is weird: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenGFX/blob/master/lang/latvian.lng 16:50:16 <glx> openttd doesn't care it's not valid, because it parses key=string and just ignore the broken line 16:51:06 <glx> TrueBrain: the translator did it on sfx and msx too 16:51:30 <glx> guess they don't understand the use of cases 16:51:46 <TrueBrain> on the other hand, why do we allow it? :P 16:51:52 <LordAro> should be rejected by eints, presumably 16:51:59 <TrueBrain> anyway, bananas-server fixed ... Content Service via wasm works again :) 16:53:49 <glx> cases are supported by newgrf, and eints works fine, it's just ob[gms] for basesets that are a special case 16:53:56 <frosch123> TrueBrain: it's a comment from the translator :p it seems to mean "status: omitted" 16:54:03 <frosch123> some copy/paste mistake or so 16:54:05 <TrueBrain> there are 2 cases 16:54:37 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:54:38 <glx> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenMSX/blob/master/lang/latvian.lng and https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenSFX/blob/master/lang/latvian.lng 16:55:22 *** Progman has quit IRC 16:55:40 <TrueBrain> https://openttd.grafana.net/dashboard/snapshot/xSd36jXh7Kp69OyhNCnntrtTeypox158 <- new snapshot .. still looking good :) 16:56:16 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:56:37 <frosch123> i am more concerned about the reordering in https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenMSX/commit/bcb9fe55080c4de9901ce427d7dd7e1c97091ade#diff-7403ede2fe38231eccc1c6a0d391e1207792a092cd456c715e0d8ce12d0e8b5f 16:58:09 <LordAro> TrueBrain: what happened 08/22-08/27 ? strangely high amount of timeouts? 16:58:28 <glx> bugs were not fixed yet ? 16:58:53 <peter1138> How do I play this java version then? It runs everywhere apparently... 16:59:02 <peter1138> (Also the newgrf support will be lolz) 17:00:43 <frosch123> i am not sure the porter is aware of that 17:00:53 <frosch123> they mentioned they want to add bananas support 17:00:58 <frosch123> but literally nothing on bananas would work 17:01:02 <frosch123> not even basesets 17:01:17 <LordAro> why wouldn't it? 17:01:26 <frosch123> basesets are ottd 0.7 17:01:31 <glx> GS and AI are out too 17:01:41 <frosch123> ottd 0.4 has single hard-coded .grf files instead of action5 17:01:49 <LordAro> oho. 17:01:57 <frosch123> heightmaps are the only thing that works 17:02:56 <glx> scenarios may work too (if old enough) but the savegame format will be different as I understant the goal 17:03:13 <frosch123> and if they wanted to add all the newgrf stuff, they would have ported a newer version 17:03:37 <frosch123> so this "add bananas support" thing makes no sense to me 17:05:48 <LordAro> when was newgrfv8 ? (that was the one with container v2, right?) 17:06:17 <frosch123> grf8 and container2 are unrelated, but both happened with 1.2 17:06:44 <frosch123> really, they picked a version with about no newgrf support 17:07:12 <frosch123> if they had picked a revision a few months earlier, that would be literally nothing 17:07:14 <frosch123> it just started 17:07:33 <frosch123> it's really TTD, not OTTD 17:08:14 <glx> no map accessors either I think 17:08:19 <frosch123> oh, it's even before tgp 17:08:38 <frosch123> no "ottd feature" i can think of is present 17:08:45 <glx> so yeah the readme can complain about bitbanging 17:09:18 <frosch123> so really, this thing only makes sense, if you have not played ottd in 16 years 17:09:25 <LordAro> "barely beyond ludde's decompiled version" wouldn't be putting it too strongly? 17:09:39 <frosch123> otherwise you would immediately notice the lack of build-on-slopes and similar things 17:09:57 <frosch123> LordAro: 1.5 years of development 17:10:10 <peter1138> Best signals though right? 17:10:35 <frosch123> oh right, that's the solution to the mistery 17:10:46 <LordAro> "As a side bonus - effortless portability to major platforms." 17:10:48 <frosch123> they only found ottd after block signals were hidden from the gui 17:11:02 <LordAro> compared with the lack of support for all the major platforms we have now 17:11:08 <frosch123> maybe they think pbs replaced block signals entirely 17:12:11 <frosch123> LordAro: i would think you can compile java to wasm just like any other language? 17:13:19 <LordAro> oh, the guy's Russian 17:13:22 <LordAro> suddenly makes a bit more sense 17:13:33 <LordAro> https://github.com/dzavalishin/jdrive/tree/master/resources also, TTD resources :o 17:14:11 <frosch123> lol, xussr.grf is there? 17:14:20 <frosch123> how is that going to work? 17:15:11 <peter1138> Well it's a very old NewGRF, it might be old enough... 17:15:47 <frosch123> maybe there were ealier versions, but the xussr i know has like 32k engines :p 17:15:59 <glx> pff the kid on discord is sometimes annoying 17:16:03 <frosch123> certainly more than the 100 supporter by ottd < 0.7 17:16:24 <peter1138> It was started in 2005. 17:16:51 <peter1138> glx, I like how vague that is. 17:17:06 <LordAro> isn't everyone on discord a child? 17:17:47 <frosch123> is there some tower defense game named "children vs boomers"? 17:17:54 *** _aD has joined #openttd 17:19:12 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 17:22:55 <peter1138> Oh right, it has the old PBS implementation. 17:22:59 <peter1138> Hahaha 17:23:18 <frosch123> wait, is that the superior signalling? 17:24:35 <peter1138> If you like your network to deadlock or crash, yeah. 17:24:53 <LordAro> haha 17:25:36 <glx> one of the rare change we removed at one point 17:25:59 <LordAro> we removed OPF not that long ago! 17:27:48 <LordAro> oh, and he's MIT licenced it 17:27:56 <LordAro> that's a big nono 17:29:16 <frosch123> is it? it does not really share code 17:29:36 <LordAro> it's very clearly derived from OTTD 17:29:41 <LordAro> that means it must be GPL, no? 17:29:43 <frosch123> it's reverse-engineered in a clean room 17:29:51 <frosch123> just like ludde did 17:30:13 <LordAro> https://github.com/dzavalishin/jdrive/tree/master/c well this is certainly OTTD 17:30:14 <glx> first import contained a full svn checkout 17:30:16 <LordAro> and is missing the licecne 17:30:29 <glx> including .svn subdirs 17:31:39 <LordAro> makes you wonder where they got it from, given the svn servers have been turned off for 3 years now 17:31:56 <frosch123> LordAro: https://github.com/dzavalishin/jdrive/blob/master/c/unused/copying <- it's there 17:32:12 <LordAro> hmmm 17:32:13 <frosch123> readme says ottd 0.4.1 17:32:32 <frosch123> but it may be some intermediate revision, just before yapf started 17:35:00 <TrueBrain> LordAro: the timeouts in that period were mostly a bug I fixed, and fixing that meant "timeout" split between timeout and aborted :) 17:35:11 <LordAro> :) 17:35:13 <TrueBrain> it is also why there are more TURN connections in that time 17:35:38 <TrueBrain> from about 08/30 I haven't really changed anything anymore :) 17:36:58 <LordAro> https://pastebin.pl/view/7e5366df worth posting? 17:37:51 *** morbidbird has joined #openttd 17:39:13 <TrueBrain> it would help if that license part was not in there, it kinda makes the last part a bit weird 17:39:27 <frosch123> LordAro: there is probably some partial build-on-slopes 17:39:31 <TrueBrain> but it is an important thing to mention :) 17:39:47 <TrueBrain> guess I can steal your thunder and post that :P 17:39:55 <LordAro> go ahead :) 17:40:06 <peter1138> The license is the only important issue 17:40:11 <peter1138> The rest is up to them to worry about. 17:40:15 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 17:40:37 <LordAro> it is 17:40:46 <frosch123> glx: "svn+ssh://dz@goblin.dz.ru/opt/svn/drive/import/openttd_3352/src_3352/ai" 17:40:47 <LordAro> just "We do think that it will simplify development of game and let us implement things that nearly impossible or very hard to implement in traditional OpenTTD architecture." rubs me the wrong way a bit 17:40:59 <_dp_> lol, NextTTD 17:41:00 <frosch123> maybe there was some svn mirror in russia somewhen? 17:41:11 <_dp_> though not that wrong I guess if you don't read it as NextOpenTTD 17:41:12 <frosch123> maybe they have the first 972 revisions there? 17:41:39 <frosch123> LordAro: it's named "jdrive" 17:42:01 <LordAro> "We're looking for a brave programmers to join a new project: NextTTD - clone of OpenTTD rewritten in Java." 17:42:13 <glx> the window title is jTTD 17:42:27 <frosch123> LordAro: oh right, maybe point them to openlomo? 17:42:34 <LordAro> haha 17:45:10 <frosch123> so, apparently it's based on r3352 from 2005-12-28 17:47:10 <frosch123> a few revisions later there is a fix for FS#36 :) 17:47:37 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 17:47:39 <frosch123> i don't see any imminent change to c++ there though, so it looks like a completely random revision they found somewhere 17:48:13 <TrueBrain> LordAro: done 17:50:55 <TrueBrain> removing the copyrighted files is an interesting problem :P 17:51:03 <TrueBrain> rewriting git history? :D 17:51:27 <LordAro> ORCT2 didn't care too much 17:56:09 <TrueBrain> I just love how he is this optimistic changing languages is going to change anything :D 17:56:11 <TrueBrain> time will tell ;) 17:56:20 <Samu> i wonder if title screen competition will even get an entry 17:56:46 <Samu> it reads to me as overly complicated 17:57:15 <frosch123> yeah, it sounds similar as newmap and 32bpp stuff :) 17:57:25 <frosch123> 32bpp will add trains smooth turning 17:57:34 <TrueBrain> I have never attempted to rewrite very file in a more readable way .. NEVAH 17:57:43 <TrueBrain> very = every 17:59:00 <frosch123> https://github.com/dzavalishin/jdrive/blob/master/src/game/ai/Ai.java <- is it more readable ? 17:59:25 <TrueBrain> dunno, I don't speak Java :D :D 17:59:39 <frosch123> https://github.com/dzavalishin/jdrive/blob/master/src/game/ai/Ai.java#L250 <- hey, your AI is the default 17:59:56 <TrueBrain> \o/ 18:00:16 <TrueBrain> I forgot how hacky the old AI was 18:00:21 <TrueBrain> I cannot believe CS managed to write it 18:00:25 <TrueBrain> so many places to hook into the code 18:01:27 <frosch123> https://github.com/dzavalishin/jdrive/blob/master/src/game/ai/Trolly.java#L35 <- letter from truelight 18:01:44 <TrueBrain> those times we signed our name in long comments 18:01:44 <TrueBrain> so cute 18:01:48 <frosch123> less than 3 months old at that revision 18:02:10 <frosch123> (the comment, maybe truelight as well) 18:02:53 <TrueBrain> I like that even in 2005 I was critiquing my own code without issue :P 18:04:22 <frosch123> aw, it's funny how close java is to C 18:04:41 <TrueBrain> your and mine definition of funny widely differ ;) 18:04:47 <frosch123> c code that would be considered awful today is still valid java 18:04:58 <frosch123> they did not attempt to make that stuff invalid from the start 18:05:58 <TrueBrain> so C++ ? :D 18:06:25 *** Flygon has quit IRC 18:06:30 <frosch123> sometimes i think java is closer to c than c++ is to c 18:06:46 <TrueBrain> :D 18:19:01 <morbidbird> recently i did a lot of work in java 18:19:10 <morbidbird> i wish i had ended up with java as my "main" language at age 13 instead of c++ 18:19:17 <morbidbird> would have been so productive. the IDE codes for you, no memory issues 18:19:35 <morbidbird> instead of being like 14, writing big programs in C++ and not knowing what a debugger is 18:19:36 <morbidbird> shotgun debugging 18:19:40 <frosch123> you can still switch to cobol :) 18:19:51 <morbidbird> yes things were better then 18:20:13 <morbidbird> on that topic, would you accept a c++ AI pathfinder in openttd 18:20:18 <morbidbird> i think there was discussions about it somewhere 18:20:31 <frosch123> it was rejected at least 3 times before :) 18:20:49 <morbidbird> because it might run too long and it needs to do callbacks? those are the main issues? 18:21:07 <morbidbird> you're just anti-robots 18:24:31 <LordAro> not really "main issues", more "it was decided they were a bad idea 15 years ago and all support for them ripped out 18:24:34 <LordAro> " 18:24:45 <LordAro> "also we have a proper scripting framework for them now" 18:29:30 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 18:31:07 <FLHerne> morbidbird: One objection was that it would effectively force AIs to use the same pathfinding strategy and limit innovation there 18:31:56 <FLHerne> (because few AI developers would choose to write their own and inevitably slower pathfinder given a built-in one) 18:32:19 <morbidbird> aha 18:32:33 <FLHerne> morbidbird: My vague thoughts were that pathfinding could be sped up with more generic functions 18:32:40 <FLHerne> especially at a high level 18:32:54 <morbidbird> maybe there are ways to get around the relative slowness, like cutting the path into sections 18:33:15 <FLHerne> things like "what's the lowest point in this region" or "is there any obstacle on this [line/list of tiles]" 18:33:55 <LordAro> FLHerne: of course "few AI developers would choose to write their own" is true anyway 18:33:59 <FLHerne> That, or add a built-in pathfinder with some sort of really configurable cost function almost like a SQL query 18:34:13 <FLHerne> yeah, they all use SuperLib or whatever the other one is 18:35:04 <LordAro> i don't think even superlib has its own pathfinder, they all use Pathfinder.Road/Rail 18:35:05 <FLHerne> but I think there are a lot of functions that could allow AIs to find nice paths quicker without literally being a "get me from A to B" function 18:35:49 <FLHerne> My *other* idea was that similar functions could allow doing map generation in Squirrel 18:36:11 <FLHerne> I assume someone else has had that 18:36:16 <LordAro> scriptable mapgen has definitely been floated before 18:36:23 <LordAro> scriptable anything has almost certainly been floated before 18:36:29 <FLHerne> Yeah 18:36:39 <FLHerne> It's kind of a pity OTTD uses Squirrel IMO 18:37:08 <FLHerne> it's not particularly well-suited to most of these things, at least performantly 18:37:14 <LordAro> mm 18:37:17 <Timberwolf> I did write one which used a relaxed A* algorithm to speed up routefinding, although it was pretty closely based on the Pathfinder.Rail library. And also I never released it. 18:37:23 <LordAro> trouble is we're stuck with it now 18:37:31 <LordAro> unless someone wants to write a squirrel parser in lua or something 18:37:48 <Timberwolf> I also tried writing a double-track pathfinder to build in a more "human-like" style, but that turns out to have a *lot* of corner cases. 18:37:56 <LordAro> trAIns does that 18:38:02 <LordAro> only one to do so, afaik 18:38:09 <FLHerne> ...and runs into a lot of the corner cases :p 18:38:11 <LordAro> yup 18:38:21 <LordAro> impressive on flat maps though ^^ 18:38:39 <FLHerne> There's that one that builds double-track grid networks 18:39:23 <LordAro> choochoo does well, yeah 18:39:48 <Timberwolf> I have wondered about dividing the map into grids for doing more "human-like" networks, and maintaining a list of whether you already have track that connects to each edge. Probably a nightmare to get working well, though. 18:39:57 <FLHerne> Oh, and RailwAI 18:40:17 <FLHerne> yeah, ChooChoo was the grid one I was thinking of 18:40:30 <FLHerne> IMO it gets confused a lt 18:40:36 <Timberwolf> AIs are kind of bad at debugging problems with a big connected networks. 18:40:36 <FLHerne> but the networks look nice 18:40:39 <FLHerne> *IME 18:40:59 <Timberwolf> It's hard to encode the kind of, "that looks wrong" followed by "OK, why are they doing that" which comes naturally to a player. 18:44:08 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 18:46:02 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 18:47:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/Jze5h 18:47:57 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 19:00:05 <_aD> FLHerne: but does not travel past the corner cases because I'm not an animal, I have 90° turns disabled. 19:01:00 <FLHerne> heh 19:04:23 <FLHerne> hm, trAIns has its own paper http://www.sbgames.org/papers/sbgames09/computing/full/cp24_09.pdf 19:06:43 <morbidbird> the way to do double track is to reduce the cost of moving next to another track 19:06:58 <frosch123> yes, that paper was important to make ottd noteworthy for wikipedia :) 19:07:11 <morbidbird> but the actual "ai" wasn't that impressive was it? 19:07:18 <morbidbird> it was just tweaking parameters? 19:07:52 <morbidbird> seeing a screenshot of choochoo is what got me into openttd ai :P 19:14:53 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 19:40:46 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC 19:40:53 *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd 19:41:45 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 19:44:58 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 19:44:58 *** Gustavo6046_ is now known as Gustavo6046 19:45:20 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 19:48:34 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 19:50:23 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 19:53:23 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 19:53:37 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 20:02:04 <Samu> trAIns is impressive 20:02:57 <FLHerne> Yeah 20:03:26 <FLHerne> The track pathfinder isn't especially complicated, but it's an elegant approach and seems to be tuned well 20:04:17 <FLHerne> The junctions, stations and network design are quite complex and produce an impressive result 20:10:52 *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd 20:11:10 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 20:11:10 *** Gustavo6046_ is now known as Gustavo6046 20:20:41 *** Strom has quit IRC 20:22:23 *** Strom has joined #openttd 20:53:00 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:01:54 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 21:02:41 *** morbidbird has quit IRC 21:16:28 *** esselfe has quit IRC 21:20:26 *** esselfe has joined #openttd 21:20:34 <_aD> Have I managed to press a magic button that causes vehicle windows to keep opening towards the lower-right of my screen? 21:20:46 *** nielsm has quit IRC 21:21:32 <_aD> I've tried to set and reset the vehicle window size... 21:21:54 <glx> maybe a hidden CTRL feature 21:22:16 * _aD is somewhat out of CTRL 21:23:45 <_aD> ah, it relates to the positions of other on-screen windows. 21:25:33 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 21:27:28 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:28:34 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:32:19 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:54:54 *** Strom has quit IRC 21:56:34 *** Strom has joined #openttd 22:04:05 *** roadt__ has quit IRC 22:05:30 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 22:06:27 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 22:47:23 *** Progman has quit IRC 23:32:33 *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd 23:35:46 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 23:35:51 *** Gustavo6046_ is now known as Gustavo6046