Log for #openttd on 28th September 2021:
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11:27:20  <Samu> damn, my ai triggered too long to save again
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12:19:10  <FLHerne> Is it intended that trying to add an order via a station of the wrong kind is silently ignored?
12:20:44  <FLHerne> If I have a bus and click on a lorry bay, there's a "Message: Can't insert new order ... vehicle can't go to that station"
12:21:02  <FLHerne> but if I click on a rail station or airport it just does nothing
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13:08:05  <glx> FLHerne: but it bus and lorry bay are in the same station it should be accepted
13:08:09  <glx> *if
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13:27:18  <orudge> Hah, some interesting spam, we can advertise OpenTTD at my local supermarket
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13:55:28  <FLHerne> glx: yes, that's fine
13:56:10  <FLHerne> What I'm questioning is that there's no message for incompatible stations that are of a totally different vehicle type
13:56:56  <glx> probably checks, but return default error, so no message
13:57:14  <FLHerne> If I send, say, a bus to an airport, should there not also be a "vehicle can't go to that station" message?
13:57:25  <FLHerne> I should probably file an issue
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15:00:16  <LordAro> FLHerne: i'd say that's an issue, yeah
15:00:28  <LordAro> probably trigially fixablw
15:00:29  <LordAro> e
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15:39:04  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/eints] nielsmh opened issue #49: "String editing Manual" link is dead
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16:37:41  <TrueBrain>
16:37:47  <TrueBrain> That opens up possibilities
16:38:21  <LordAro> what sort of possibilities?
16:40:08  <TrueBrain> No more OVH VPSes
16:40:09  <glx> <-- it was just to test if it could work, but it's really a hack
16:40:18  <TrueBrain> CDN cost down with .. a lot
16:40:36  <TrueBrain> Cloudsaves?
16:42:08  <TrueBrain> Our whole CDN on R2 would cost 2 euro a month
16:42:17  <LordAro> oho
16:42:22  <TrueBrain> Vs the current ... 50?
16:42:47  <glx> oh more room for TURN users :)
16:42:54  <TrueBrain> Yes
16:43:13  <TrueBrain> Wiki cache rate is 30%
16:43:19  <TrueBrain> That is really low
16:43:54  <TrueBrain> Will need to see how to increase that .. First means I need to check what isn't being cached :D
16:50:21  <nielsm> TrueBrain: are these env vars documented anywhere?
16:51:00  <TrueBrain> No clue, didn't add them :p
16:52:02  <glx> don't think they are documented, but they were mentionned in PRs when tests were done on staging
16:52:49  <TrueBrain> They for sure are meant for dev only ofc ;)
16:54:14  <glx> and they are connection strings, so can contain the port too (not very explicit in the default values)
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17:01:54  <andythenorth> yo
17:02:43  <andythenorth> in "everyday is a school day" epsiode #15823
17:02:50  <andythenorth> Google Chat is actually ok
17:02:58  <andythenorth> so either hell froze over, or I'm hallucinating
17:03:10  <andythenorth> clearly on topic for this channel
17:12:41  <TrueBrain> right, some better stats about our wiki .. 142k page requests a day .. 3GB of data
17:14:15  <TrueBrain> 50% of that are png files :D
17:14:31  <TrueBrain> well, page-wise
17:14:32  <TrueBrain> bandwidth, I don't know :)
17:17:04  <andythenorth> is that now CF-ed?
17:18:29  <TrueBrain> yup
17:18:41  <TrueBrain> too bad we don't have a Pro account (yet?) so I cannot see real webtraffic stats :P
17:20:35  <andythenorth> you going to buy one?
17:22:01  <TrueBrain> if this works out, we should
17:23:09  <andythenorth> anyone used this?
17:23:15  * andythenorth on a shopping expedition
17:23:36  <andythenorth> front page is a bit animated wizzy
17:23:44  <andythenorth> other pages are better
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17:34:15  <TrueBrain> right, lets start with increasing cache-time of images .. currently that is set to 5 minutes
17:34:19  <TrueBrain> as you might change them
17:34:25  <TrueBrain> but .. in reality that RARELY happens
17:34:29  <TrueBrain> so .. yeah, screw that :P
17:36:21  <nielsm> if an image really needs to change, upload the new one with a new name and update the pages, duh
17:36:34  <nielsm> (updating the pages being the hard part)
17:38:29  <nielsm> but does CF ever call the origin server back before cache expiry with conditional fetch headers (so you can just send it a "not modified" response back)?
17:39:16  <TrueBrain> that is a difficult question to answer, as it is yes and no :)
17:39:27  <TrueBrain> we send a public, max-age=N header on uploads
17:39:34  <TrueBrain> we also send a last-modified
17:39:49  <TrueBrain> N is 300
17:39:59  <TrueBrain> with the assumption most people browse around for like 5 minutes on the wiki
17:40:09  <TrueBrain> during tha ttime, the browser keeps the images in the cache
17:40:18  <TrueBrain> now with CF in front of it, it means CF caches that image for 5 minutes
17:40:29  <andythenorth> does it cache admin edits?
17:40:34  <TrueBrain> after that, it does a is-modified-since check
17:40:37  <TrueBrain> and does not refetch the image if the image was not changed
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17:40:47  <andythenorth> cos otherwise we could be caching images on something much longer, like 24 hours
17:40:53  <TrueBrain> the downside is, that if you upload a new image, a hard reload doesn't change anything
17:40:55  <TrueBrain> where it did before
17:41:11  <TrueBrain> but so: no, CF does not check before max-age, but does a not-modified check after
17:41:25  <TrueBrain> "cache admin edits", wtf does that even mean?
17:42:44  <andythenorth> I mean if I am authed, and I upload a new image
17:42:52  <andythenorth> do I get a short TTL, or do I have to wait?
17:43:02  <TrueBrain> a new image is there instant
17:43:06  <TrueBrain> overwriting images is the thing
17:43:13  <andythenorth> yeah sorry, wrong words
17:43:16  <andythenorth> brain
17:44:01  <TrueBrain> the thing where I can see that CF is doing a good job, is with the 200 vs 301 rate
17:44:21  <TrueBrain> it used to be like: 70% 200, rest 304 (not 301, 304, oops)
17:44:28  <TrueBrain> now it is more like 50/50
17:44:53  <TrueBrain> and the HTML pages are never cached, so that sounds about right
17:45:39  <TrueBrain> the thing is .. we RARELY change images on our wiki
17:46:03  <TrueBrain> so 5 minute cache is just .. wasteful :P
17:46:07  <TrueBrain> 30 or 60 minutes would be better
17:46:18  <TrueBrain> but as you cannot force-reload the image, if someone would be to overwrite an existing
17:46:20  <TrueBrain> it would be confusing :P
17:46:21  <nielsm> if an image really does need to change then just upload it with a new name
17:46:31  <TrueBrain> the wiki allows overwriting with the same name atm
17:46:46  <TrueBrain> but honestly .. I have no issues dealing with 1 confused person in 20 years :P
17:47:05  <TrueBrain> nevertheless, it is a tradeoff :)
17:47:14  <nielsm> does CF have a way to force-flush its cache for the site?
17:47:25  <TrueBrain> for EVERYTHING, yes
17:47:42  <TrueBrain> well, no, I can also give 1 specific URL
17:47:44  <TrueBrain> but not wildcards
17:47:46  <nielsm> yeah just do that if there is a "catastrphic situation" where an image seriously needs to be changed right now
17:48:00  <TrueBrain> exactly
17:48:30  <TrueBrain> right, next victim to put in front of CF .. the main webpage .. :D
17:48:44  <TrueBrain> I have no clue how cache is configured there
17:49:12  <TrueBrain> only a last-modified header
17:51:01  <glx> website rarely changes, and changes happen on triggers so there should be a way to tell when to refresh cache
17:51:19  <TrueBrain> website changes daily :)
17:51:33  <TrueBrain> and "refresh cache" is either forget everything, or a very specific URL
17:51:37  <TrueBrain> so also not really practicle
17:51:40  <TrueBrain> practical?
17:51:42  <TrueBrain> what-ever :P
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17:52:09  <TrueBrain> I think I will just make it cache for an hour or something
17:52:18  <TrueBrain> would mean that if we post news, it can take up to an hour before everyone sees it
17:52:22  <TrueBrain> not sure that is a problem :P
17:52:38  <glx> that way we have time to catch typos ;)
17:52:54  <TrueBrain> :D
17:53:05  <TrueBrain> and direct URLs to posts do work instantly
17:53:13  <TrueBrain> it is only the main page that doesn't show it yet
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17:58:57  <TrueBrain> I am fine with that
17:58:57  <TrueBrain> okay, CF did 2 hours by default
17:59:01  <TrueBrain> we will see if/how we like it :)
17:59:09  <TrueBrain> also means things like new nightlies being published "slower"
18:02:02  <TrueBrain> if this works out, I can move more stuff to CF that doesn't really consume resources, but are just easier to do on CF .. like redirects etc
18:06:46  <TrueBrain> CF also filters webtraffic for baddies
18:06:50  <TrueBrain> I put it on one of the lowest mode
18:07:05  <TrueBrain> but a whole block of IPs gets a captcha
18:07:06  <TrueBrain> all from the same AS
18:07:12  <TrueBrain> I think it is working :)
18:08:46  * andythenorth reading
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18:09:50  <TrueBrain> if we would use query-strings for versioning of our static assets, we could set it to a year too :P
18:10:18  * andythenorth does that in places
18:10:39  <TrueBrain> we could do that, but we currently are not doing it
18:14:24  <TrueBrain> RC1 costs us 1.5 dollar per day :P
18:14:27  <TrueBrain> random stats ;)
18:20:55  <peter1138> Spendy
18:25:17  <TrueBrain> oof, we had 3 million DNS requests last month
18:25:24  <TrueBrain> AWS charged 1 dollar 25 for that
18:25:36  <TrueBrain> Cloudflare does that for free now :P
18:47:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
18:47:31  <DorpsGek>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:49:24  <TrueBrain> 279? Nice score nielsm :)
18:49:56  <TrueBrain> 29 languages fully done now, 35 to go.
18:51:08  <andythenorth> lol dependabot is still nagging me
18:51:15  <TrueBrain> we definitely lost some translators btw :P
18:51:16  <andythenorth> aiohttp
18:51:24  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: nag it back
18:51:30  <TrueBrain> if you own the repo, you can mute it btw
18:51:35  <andythenorth> I am liking it
18:51:46  <andythenorth> who is our vulnerability manager?
18:51:57  <TrueBrain> and for aiohttp, the latest is a post-release, and it refuses to see that as newer than the older release
18:52:11  <andythenorth> if i have to look in the mirror for the vulnerability manager
18:52:13  <TrueBrain> if it is on any OpenTTD-repo, let me know, and I will mute it for you :P
18:52:18  <andythenorth> we are in big trouble :P
18:52:23  <andythenorth> it is openttd website
18:52:38  <andythenorth> but it's the first time I've seen dependabot working on my repos, so it's interesting
18:52:49  <TrueBrain> in your fork? Update your main
18:52:53  <TrueBrain> didn't someone already tell you that? :P
18:53:42  <TrueBrain> ah, no, it is the post issue
18:53:45  <TrueBrain> so yeah, mute it :P
18:54:30  <andythenorth> ok
18:55:04  <andythenorth> hmm more options I can click
18:55:10  <andythenorth> 'have no bandwidth to fix this'
18:55:16  <andythenorth> can I apply that to my entire life?
18:55:27  <TrueBrain> yes
18:55:48  <andythenorth> life: if product breaks, stop using
18:57:49  <nielsm> TrueBrain: actually more than 279, since I discovered way more old strings that were inconsistent or bad grammar or otherwise needed fixing, but eints apparently doesn't count existing "correct" strings that were edited or something
18:58:12  <nielsm> or hmm... maybe okay
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19:13:22  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #9586: Doc: Fix some documentation typos
19:15:52  *** tokai has quit IRC
19:18:17  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #9586: Doc: Fix some documentation typos
19:36:20  <TrueBrain> lol @ Steam .. so we have been operating the master-server for 14 years .. why is he after us "but what if you shut down the MP servers?!" :D
19:37:17  <glx> and openttd multiplayer works fine without master server or game coordinator
19:37:27  <glx> it's just less friendly
19:37:53  <TrueBrain> yeah, I think nielsm ?, already replied that :)
19:38:04  <TrueBrain> but just the ... we have been doing this for 14 years already
19:38:16  <TrueBrain> don't bitch about "but what if you shut down the master server?!" :P
19:38:20  <TrueBrain> so silly
19:39:55  <TrueBrain> okay .. amount of multiplayer games boomed a bit 

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