Log for #openttd on 5th October 2021:
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12:54:35  <Gustavo6046> if I wanna put bus stops directly inside cities, do I want them to be cul-de-sac or through stops?
12:54:50  <Gustavo6046> for freight stops in industries I usually do the large, long through stops that people like
12:55:09  <glx> it's up to you :)
12:55:48  <glx> non drive through are usually slower
12:55:55  <Gustavo6046> hmm
12:56:10  <Gustavo6046> yeah but a bus that goes through one can end up having to do a looooong turn all around town
13:00:09  <Gustavo6046> just to go back around
13:01:03  <Gustavo6046> and while I could just put dummy drivethru stops and use a join station to connect a "real" station beside (a block of drivethrus) to actually pick up and lay down passengers and stuff, that just feels.... wrong, maybe even ugly
13:01:17  <Gustavo6046> and it can get in the way of the city developing
13:04:35  <FLHerne> Gustavo6046: I normally use through stops, but you do have to plan the routing carefully
13:04:55  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #9566: [Bug]: Lost ship after leaving station if it docked in a perpendicular manner and doesn't reverse
13:05:19  <FLHerne> Sometimes I add "roundabouts", four adjacent road tiles in a loop, at key junctions to make that easier
13:06:16  <FLHerne> Pull-in stations have the advantage that vehicles can arrive and leave in any order, not first-in-first-out
13:06:28  <FLHerne> for random city buses that's not usually important
13:06:48  <FLHerne> but it's useful if you have, say, a station for FIRS supplies with multiple cargos
13:07:12  <FLHerne> otherwise the full vehicles of one cargo tend to get stuck behind empty ones for the other
13:17:33  <Gustavo6046> FLHerne: Are your roundabouts one-way?
13:17:42  <glx> no need
13:17:44  <Gustavo6046> Ah
13:17:56  <Gustavo6046> do one way roads even do anything? It's not like buses can use both lanes, right?
13:18:08  <Gustavo6046> Say, to overpass a broken down vehicle.
13:18:29  <Gustavo6046> That'd be pretty cool
13:18:45  <Gustavo6046> Just put two parallel roads and print arrows on 'em! Stonks!
13:19:40  <Gustavo6046> FLHerne: wait, to make what again easier? The route planning or the station building or?
13:20:22  <glx> pathfinding, ie route planning
13:20:28  <Gustavo6046> ah
13:20:41  <Gustavo6046> glx: nono, human route planning when building, not AI route planning when driving :P
13:20:53  <Gustavo6046> Oh wait
13:21:04  <Gustavo6046> plan the ROUTING... like plan ahead how the pathfinding will behave?
13:21:16  <glx> when building you can imagine what the pathfinding will be :)
13:21:42  <glx> and trick it to do what you prefer
13:22:23  <FLHerne> Gustavo6046: In theory non-articulated buses can overtake a broken-down vehicle, on a one-way road or not
13:22:29  <FLHerne> but it doesn't work very well
13:23:24  <FLHerne> Gustavo6046: I mean, when you're placing stations and setting orders of vehicles through them, you should consider what route the vehicle will take so it's reasonably direct
13:24:02  <FLHerne> Having somewhere a vehicle can reliably turn and go straight back the other way is useful
13:24:21  <FLHerne> You can use natural dead-end roads, but the city tends to build more road on the end of them
13:24:46  <FLHerne> and then your vehicle has to go further
13:25:15  <Gustavo6046> Hmm, yeah
13:29:18  <FLHerne> Gustavo6046: What I mean by 'roundabout' is just take a junction and build one corner tile adjacent to it
13:29:39  <Gustavo6046> Ahh, yeah, a round 2x2 square that can be a junction
13:32:48  <FLHerne> huh, I just loaded an old save that I have no memory at all of creating
13:33:07  <FLHerne> There's a lot of stuff on this map, I clearly spent ages playing it :-/
13:33:24  <Gustavo6046> I suppose OpenTTD gets you in the flow
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15:03:39  <NGC3982> i said that fourteen years ago
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16:03:43  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #9567: Feature: Ships may ask pathfinder whether to reverse when leaving docks
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17:27:57  <nielsm> TrueBrain: we need to set up voting for the title screen competition, and decide what to do with the submission from DemianWSE which has troublesome AI players
17:28:45  <frosch123> hack the savegame to remove the ai
17:29:02  <TrueBrain> What can I do to help? (You just made two statements, not sure what you are looking for :D)
17:29:11  <nielsm> hmm... is it possible to convert the AI player to a "human" player?
17:29:21  <nielsm> without deleting the company
17:29:26  <glx> yes
17:29:40  <frosch123> it's just a bool, load the savegame, change the bool with a debugger, resave
17:29:47  <nielsm> can we just make the game always do that when loading the game as a title screen
17:30:00  <TrueBrain> Or edit Load_AIPL
17:30:08  <frosch123> well, there is more to it
17:30:20  <frosch123> ottd will also print debug messages, when it cannot find the referfenced ais
17:30:27  <frosch123> so titlegames should never reference content
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17:31:48  <nielsm> TrueBrain: if we're doing the voting on github like last time it'll probably mean making a new repos for it (the previous had the version number in the name,
17:32:32  <TrueBrain> That idea no longer really works either
17:32:40  <TrueBrain> As it was meant for static titlegames
17:33:01  <nielsm> should I just make it a forums poll then...
17:33:09  <TrueBrain> The voting happened on a Discussion page
17:33:22  <TrueBrain> That repo just helped generating the images and movies
17:33:26  <nielsm> I recorded a video of the third submission and uploaded to youtube now, so we have a video of all of them
17:33:32  <frosch123> also, in today's wholesome news: someone submitted a screenshot for the website, created in 800x600 fullscreen, using ottd 0.7.5 and dbset 0.5 (not xl) :)
17:34:18  <TrueBrain> nielsm: sounds awesome. So make a discussion and post them in 3 replies?
17:35:04  <TrueBrain> We can rename the repo if that makes it easier btw
17:35:08  <nielsm> discussion... on the main OTTD repo?
17:35:17  <nielsm> because renaming the one for 1.11 will break some links
17:35:36  <TrueBrain> Sure, works for me too
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17:41:49  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler started discussion #9606: The OpenTTD 1.11 Title Screen Competition
17:41:56  <TrueBrain> just moving stuff
17:42:01  <TrueBrain> to keep things neat :)
17:43:26  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh started discussion #9607: OpenTTD 12 title screen voting
17:44:13  <TrueBrain> MOAR GOODIES :)
17:45:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on discussion #9607: OpenTTD 12 Title Screen Competition
17:45:56  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on discussion #9607: OpenTTD 12 Title Screen Competition
17:46:41  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on discussion #9607: OpenTTD 12 Title Screen Competition
17:47:21  <nielsm> and I made it pinned right now
17:48:08  <nielsm> should probably collect a few screenshots from each too, though
17:48:58  <TrueBrain> To make it PRETTY!
17:49:42  <frosch123> python docs trolled me... i read the whole page, and the last sentence was the thing i was looking for :p
17:50:01  <TrueBrain> Always start at the bottom
17:50:10  <TrueBrain> But wait, why are you writing Python?!
17:50:26  <frosch123> i am not, i am just reading 1.10 news
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17:50:49  <frosch123> "Patterns may use named constants. These must be dotted names to prevent them from being interpreted as capture variable" <- that's the sentence i was looking for
17:51:28  <LordAro> i remember seeing that when the PEP was published
17:51:32  <LordAro> not exactly nice format
17:52:22  <TrueBrain> Their summary is pretty nice, at least, I understood it after first read :p
17:52:33  <TrueBrain> Still scared shitless to use it
17:53:03  <frosch123> at least you did not work at fbook yesterday :p
17:54:18  <TrueBrain> you don't know .....
17:54:24  <TrueBrain>
17:54:48  <frosch123> :)
17:55:36  <TrueBrain> nielsm: you also want to post it on Discord?
17:55:47  <TrueBrain> owh, you can't, I guess
17:55:48  <TrueBrain> you want me to?
17:57:20  <nielsm> I don't have access there no. so yes please :)
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17:58:37  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/BaNaNaS] frosch123 opened pull request #108: Change: migrate OpenTTD user Zydeco to GitHub user zydeco
18:00:40  <TrueBrain> nielsm: done!
18:00:50  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/BaNaNaS] TrueBrain approved pull request #108: Change: migrate OpenTTD user Zydeco to GitHub user zydeco
18:00:54  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/BaNaNaS] TrueBrain merged pull request #108: Change: migrate OpenTTD user Zydeco to GitHub user zydeco
18:01:23  <LordAro> movements on DemianWSE's video seem much less smooth that the others
18:01:28  <TrueBrain> just pinged everyone, as .. who cares :P
18:01:48  <nielsm> LordAro: probably just a recording issue
18:02:19  <LordAro> nielsm: maybe worth considering you making a recording, just so they're all consistent?
18:02:36  <LordAro> could be something to do with youtube's 60fps
18:07:35  <frosch123> hmm, bananas reload failed
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18:14:07  <kaomoneus> Hi folks! Am I right, that command.cpp is a console command definitions?
18:14:16  <nielsm> no
18:14:39  <nielsm> the console commands are in console_cmds.cpp
18:14:44  <kaomoneus> ok
18:14:56  <kaomoneus> What is command.cpp for then?
18:15:00  <kaomoneus> scripts?
18:15:09  <kaomoneus> squirel?
18:15:14  <nielsm> command.cpp is for the game action commands, the commands clients send to network servers to indicate they are performing some action on the world
18:15:38  <nielsm> e.g. building a piece of rail is a command, buying a vehicle is a command, changing an item in an orders list is a command
18:15:52  <nielsm> everything a player (or AI, or game script) does that affects the game simulation is a command
18:16:05  <kaomoneus> ah.. ok. gotcha. Thanks!
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18:26:40  <dP> hm, does that mean 12.0 won't be released until 16th?
18:27:39  <frosch123> you can extrapolate the release date from past 12 years
18:29:42  <dP> April 1st? :p
18:40:06  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #9608: Change: Disable AI and Game Script when loading the title game
18:49:49  <TrueBrain> nielsm: I wonder what is the better choice .. bit of hassle once every N months, or more special code in our codebase (honest question, to be clear)
18:50:38  <TrueBrain> frosch123: reload failed? Which one?
18:51:45  <nielsm> TrueBrain, well, strictly speaking the guidelines text (that I copy-pasted) says this: "Do not use AIs, GameScripts, or NewGRFs. These are automatically disabled."
18:51:53  <nielsm> right now, they are not actually disabled automatically at all
18:51:59  <nielsm> but rather they are manually
18:52:13  <TrueBrain> using the "someone who didn't know wrote a line of text" as an argument .. yeah, not buying that :P
18:52:26  <frosch123> TrueBrain: after the PR merge
18:52:56  <frosch123> sorry, i have no clue, i just get spammed by sentry :)
18:53:11  <TrueBrain> ah, sentry
18:54:49  <TrueBrain> a BrokenProcessPool .. sounds odd
18:56:20  <TrueBrain> it didn't even crash
18:56:21  <TrueBrain> lol
18:56:33  <TrueBrain> sometimes it surprises me how resilient those services are these days :)
18:57:12  <TrueBrain> ah, OOM
18:57:29  <TrueBrain> for some reason yesterday it started to use a lot of memory
18:58:03  <TrueBrain> and you know what the solution is? Just kill the instance :D
19:02:54  <TrueBrain> there, all healthy again
19:03:17  <TrueBrain> (lot of memory btw is from 120MB to 200MB RAM)
19:08:37  <frosch123> yesterday broke a lot :p
19:09:14  <TrueBrain> lol
19:09:35  <frosch123> my company also had internet outage in the morning, so 3 internet related events already
19:10:31  <TrueBrain> just a bad day to be a machine
19:11:07  <frosch123> i wonder how many internal status reports you have to deliver in 6 hours
19:12:06  <TrueBrain> do I want to know what you are referencing?
19:12:32  <frosch123> i am still amazed that you can break fb so hard, that it takes 6 hours to fix
19:12:48  <TrueBrain> "but it was very secure!!"
19:12:52  <frosch123> and i am used to management not helping in such situations
19:13:22  <frosch123> but wanting status updates, which they don't understand :p
19:13:28  <TrueBrain> I am mostly curious if we will get an honest story of what happened
19:13:59  <frosch123> not sure whether it's worth whitsleblowing
19:14:27  <TrueBrain> during Incident Response with cybersecurity problems, for bigger companies those teams have a dedicated "communication" guy .. rarely someone with indepth knowledge of how to resolve incidents, but purely to get management off the backs of those that do
19:14:51  <TrueBrain> the "you talk to me, not them" kinda guy
19:15:03  <TrueBrain> as management is just the worst during incidents
19:15:14  <andythenorth> I ban management from interfering
19:15:26  <andythenorth> which means I am seen playing tank games or openttd during an incident
19:15:42  <TrueBrain> pictures or it didn't happen
19:15:45  <andythenorth> instead of 'helping' by asking engineers questions and providing 'oversight'
19:15:59  <TrueBrain> the best thing to do during an incident as manager .. ask if anyone wants coffee
19:16:06  <TrueBrain> that is just about your only interaction you should have
19:16:15  <andythenorth> you can start the timeline
19:16:24  <andythenorth> and think about phoning the regulatory authority
19:19:28  <TrueBrain> "During one of these routine maintenance jobs, a command was issued with the intention to assess the availability of global backbone capacity, which unintentionally took down all the connections in our backbone network, effectively disconnecting Facebook data centers globally. "
19:20:15  <TrueBrain> wait, I have to read on Discord that 12.0 is delayed? When did that happen? Why wasn't I told there was a date?
19:22:47  <frosch123> which date was it?
19:22:54  <TrueBrain> I dunno
19:23:00  <TrueBrain> I just read it was delayed
19:23:05  <TrueBrain> I assumed you knew!
19:23:39  <frosch123> <- maybe they expected yesterday
19:23:51  <frosch123> their fault for believing in unmerged PRs
19:23:55  <frosch123> everyone can create one
19:23:58  <TrueBrain> draft PRs even :)
19:24:28  <TrueBrain> even makes it clear there is no date
19:24:35  <TrueBrain> but yet, it is delayed .. Discord tells me so :)
19:25:32  <dP> don't tell me you didn't want to release it on Oct 4 :p
19:25:48  <TrueBrain> I have been very verbal I want to release as soon as we have a title game
19:26:19  <dP> yeah and then you suddenly had 3 :p
19:26:38  <TrueBrain> disappointed? sure. delayed? not to my knowledge.
19:27:05  <dP> whatever, I'm open to suggestions how to word it better
19:27:25  <TrueBrain> anything other than suggesting we missed some arbitrary deadline, I would say ;)
19:27:45  <glx> we always said "when it's done"
19:30:03  <dP> better?
19:30:34  <TrueBrain> never said you had to change it btw; just surprised 12.0 was delayed ;)
19:31:54  <TrueBrain> so indeed, fb was down this long because of their security :P Fun
19:32:17  <TrueBrain> at least they openly published what happened; did not expect that
19:34:41  <glx> probably required for stock market
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19:47:39  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #9608: Change: Disable AI and Game Script when loading the title game
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