Log for #openttd on 18th October 2021:
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07:09:37  <LordAro> anyone know what rau117 is talking about? alternatice semaphore sprites?
07:09:47  <LordAro> *v
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07:43:58  <andythenorth> link? :)
08:09:35  <LordAro>
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08:16:40  <andythenorth> no idea
08:17:07  <andythenorth> OP is non-native English speaker, ask for clarification? :)
08:21:32  <LordAro> rau117 is also a thoroughly unpleasant individual, going by their reddit posts
08:21:39  <LordAro> much more deserving of a ban that zorg
08:21:59  <LordAro> but yes, i shall ask for clarification
08:23:13  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #9617: Feature: Button to toggle showing advanced signal types
08:32:14  <andythenorth> sometimes it's lost in translation, but eh yes
08:32:31  <andythenorth> currently I am glad I don't have a reddit account
08:32:45  <LordAro> it's for the best
08:33:01  <andythenorth> I used up all my patience somewhere :P
08:33:13  <andythenorth> maybe in grinding though the 900 flyspray tickets :P
08:33:26  <LordAro> likely
08:33:28  <LordAro> :)
08:33:50  <andythenorth> also taking public feedback on the internet is rather close to my day job :P
08:34:01  <andythenorth> but the difference is nobody elected us and we're not accountable
08:43:18  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #9619: Fix #9595: Always use plural forms of cargo for subsidy strings
08:43:21  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #9595: [Bug]: Localized plural strings required in certain instances
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09:08:53  <orudge> [21:29:12] <TrueBrain> owh, right, orudge ! MSStore needs an update :D <-- yep, being done. I have partial automation for it, but not sure it can be fully automated yet
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11:18:10  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kuhnovic commented on pull request #9616: Feature: Railways can be created "through" bridges, tunnels, stations…
11:23:24  <dP> hm, it's a second report on broken citybuilder scripts in 12.0 already:
11:23:29  <dP> there was also one on steam...
11:32:46  <dP> lol, I seem to have the opposite problem, it grows to much xD
11:33:03  <dP> though mb it's normal for city controller, no idea how it's supposed to work...
11:39:35  <LordAro> dP: i've seen that growth issue before when the compatibility scripts are missing
11:39:50  <LordAro> growth rate constants (or scaling?) got changed at some point
11:39:52  <dP> nah, it's a different one
11:40:01  <dP> script just builds shitton of houses
11:41:24  <dP> with GSTown.ExpandTown
11:41:55  <dP> so may be intentional
11:45:24  <dP> at the very least, it does the same in 1.11.2
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12:24:25  <dP> ok, can confirm I think, something got broken in 12.0
12:24:28  <dP>
12:24:40  <dP> something about GS saveload I guess
12:31:37  <dP> oh lol, my local test server is now publically accesible and some people are playing on it...
12:31:56  <dP> more than on the actual citymania server running the same thingg xD
12:34:36  <dP> hm... now I wonder what's the easiest way to make it inaccessible without making it private...
12:36:05  <dP> *** Chris Sawyer has joined the game (Client #22)
12:36:06  <dP> :/
12:36:43  <glx> invite only
12:37:10  <glx> so it's online but not listed
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12:39:29  <dP> I mean without changing game settings
12:39:44  <dP> kinda want them to be the same as on the actual server
12:40:03  <glx> you can do it in the console
12:40:09  <dP> for testing and as they're gonna be copied back and forth anyway
12:40:35  <dP> in the console I'll have to do that on every run...
12:42:11  <glx> maybe we should add support for different private.cfg, like there is for different openttd.cfg
12:44:44  <dP> well, I'm not using private.cfg at all, so won't help...
12:44:58  <dP> I'm looking for some router config solution or mb /etc/hosts
12:45:41  <dP> I was fine before since my pc is behind nat and I just didn't port forward xD
12:45:48  <glx> hehe
12:46:59  <glx> oh you can use environment variable
12:50:05  <glx> set OTTD_COORDINATOR_CS to localhost and it should fail to advertise
12:54:16  <dP> yeah, but I'll have to change it only for server processes I guess
12:56:59  <glx> you can do it on the command line "OTTD_COORDINATOR_CS=localhost openttd -D"
12:58:17  <dP> it's started by server manager so I'll have to patch it through somehow
12:58:28  <dP> doable ofc, I just wish there was an easier solution
12:58:47  <glx> well we simplified network for average users ;)
12:58:58  <dP> yeah, lol
12:59:48  <glx> but if you want to use the same config file for all, I don't see another way
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15:51:47  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/eints] Aswn opened issue #62: STR_NEWS_SUBSIDY_WITHDRAWN_SERVICE - order of {STRING}
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15:58:54  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/eints] glx22 commented on issue #62: STR_NEWS_SUBSIDY_WITHDRAWN_SERVICE - order of {STRING}
16:22:15  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] YouYouTheBoxx opened issue #9623: [Bug]: Vsync makes the game feels laggy and smoother & 2x Speed smooth game so much!!
16:24:25  <peter1138> laggy AND smoother?
16:24:53  <LordAro> some language issues somewhere, i think
16:25:14  <glx> I think it's just the effect of the game running at 33fps whatever display refresh is
16:25:30  <LordAro> i did notice the same when i was fiddling with vsync yesterday though - framerate window consistently displays 58fps, not 60
16:25:41  <LordAro> no such issues with vsync disabled
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16:43:39  <FLHerne> "And it's the case even when a vehicle goes 0.5x it's speed to match real 1x speed; it looks so much smoother when moving" sounds like it could be the thing in 4x zoom where vehicles jump forward several pixels per tick?
16:43:59  <FLHerne> unless that got fixed and I missed it
16:44:05  * FLHerne doesn't do EZ :p
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17:18:12  <TrueBrain> ha! The "aborts" I saw were indeed people hitting refresh way too often :D Nice!
17:28:08  <glx> but it should be solved now
17:28:17  <TrueBrain> it is, which the stats show clearly :P
17:28:23  <TrueBrain>
17:29:37  <LordAro> \o/
17:31:00  <glx> a recent report on discord shows we forgot
17:31:17  <TrueBrain> :) So go for it!
17:31:54  <andythenorth> lol notch
17:32:02  * andythenorth watching Apple stream for Macbook Pro
17:32:05  <andythenorth> nice notch
17:32:26  <andythenorth> enjoy a black cut out in every game, video, menu bar
17:32:37  <andythenorth> Apple, innovating in new ways to fuck up since 1978
17:32:44  <LordAro> oh god, the macbook too now?
17:33:57  <andythenorth> notch notch notch
17:34:11  <andythenorth> ugh they've bought the ports back too
17:34:12  <andythenorth> FML
17:34:51  <andythenorth> stupid SD card slot just gathering dust
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17:45:06  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] glx22 opened pull request #228: Update: minimum macos version
17:45:42  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain approved pull request #228: Update: minimum macos version
17:46:46  <TrueBrain> okay, what I thought was a "memory leak", just seems to be the amount of active servers to track .. that is the say, the memory increase greatly reduced during the day
17:46:49  <glx> oh steam may need to be updated too
17:47:00  <TrueBrain> 5% in an hour, now 1% in 5 hours
17:47:03  <glx> it still says 10.9 as minimal version
17:47:32  <glx> and 10.11+ recommended
17:48:48  <glx> hey of course not that many beta servers compared to now stable release
17:49:14  <TrueBrain> pushed update to Steam
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17:50:04  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] glx22 merged pull request #228: Update: minimum macos version
17:54:50  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] glx22 created new tag: 1.4.38
17:55:10  <TrueBrain> you also found the "auto generate" button :D
17:55:11  <TrueBrain> nice!
17:55:27  <glx> yeah, but I fixed the text ;)
17:57:22  <TrueBrain> I noticed :P
17:59:21  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/eints] Aswn closed issue #62: STR_NEWS_SUBSIDY_WITHDRAWN_SERVICE - order of {STRING}
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18:29:51  <frosch123> in the steam release post, there is 1 comment abuot the signals, but 6 people asking to disable the moving title screen
18:30:08  <TrueBrain> yeah, the zoomed-in part especially is pretty annoying
18:30:58  <frosch123> i only watched the yt videos, i guess i should watch the real thing
18:32:11  <frosch123> ah, i guess the problem is, if you actually want to focus on clicking something in the gui
18:32:21  <frosch123> the moving background is irritating
18:32:36  <TrueBrain> yeah, and it also not smooth
18:33:05  <frosch123> if i watch the game in the background it is fine, since my eyes lock on some vehicle
18:33:13  <frosch123> it's just weird when i want to lock on the gui
18:33:31  <frosch123> i also have smooth viewport srolling enabled
18:33:37  <frosch123> let's see whether that changes stuff
18:34:27  <nielsm> the viewport panning in the title screen isn't affected by the smooth scrolling setting
18:34:39  <frosch123> yeah, i see no difference
18:34:59  <nielsm> but maybe there is a timer you can increase the frequency of
18:35:37  <frosch123> the non-smoothness does not bother me much
18:35:57  <frosch123> but i guess for 13.0 it should be restricted to jumping to new views
18:36:00  <frosch123> instead of scrolling
18:36:33  <nielsm> well, the author of the title screen actually posted an updated version in the submission topic, after voting had started
18:36:38  <nielsm> but I didn't compare it
18:36:58  <frosch123> that's not the issue :)
18:37:03  <TrueBrain> I still think if it wouldn't zoom in, it would be less of an issue too :)
18:37:16  <nielsm> we can probably do some adjustments of the camera work to make it less busy to look at
18:37:17  <frosch123> the problem is, i only watched the yt videos, and only watched the background
18:37:28  <frosch123> the problem is when you want to interact with the gui
18:37:39  <TrueBrain> so many the background a bit fuzzy, you say?
18:38:17  <frosch123> some people have issues with reading a book in a driving car
18:38:17  <nielsm> like, replace zoomed-in pans with zoomed-out stills
18:38:33  <frosch123> focussing on something in the front while the rest is moving can be hard
18:38:59  <frosch123> changing the view is fine, panning is the issue
18:40:38  <TrueBrain> so we learn :)
18:41:08  <frosch123> don't judge interfaces by yt videos :p
18:41:19  <andythenorth> the background moving is cool AF but gave me vertigo in about 8 seconds
18:41:40  <andythenorth> reminds me of when I worked in factories doing assembly on constantly moving conveyor belts
18:41:50  <frosch123> still, it's hillarious that noone on reddit complained about it :p
18:41:58  <andythenorth> reddit is too busy being power user
18:42:01  <andythenorth> no time for that
18:42:10  <TrueBrain> I still think Steam has better quality feedback
18:42:14  <andythenorth> intro screen is for noobs only
18:42:17  <TrueBrain> which surprised me a lot the first time I realised that
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18:42:32  <andythenorth> Reddit is the natural home of dunning-kruger
18:42:47  <andythenorth> I should get an account there
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18:48:19  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
18:48:20  <DorpsGek>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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18:53:16  <TrueBrain> I love the feedback on the GOG forums
18:53:25  <TrueBrain> it is just the perfect spot between compliments and bitching about stupid things
18:54:19  <frosch123> forums or reviews?
18:54:27  <TrueBrain> forums
18:54:36  <TrueBrain> "but there are no threads there"
18:54:37  <TrueBrain> yes
18:54:47  <frosch123> the 7 posts in 2 topics?
18:54:57  <TrueBrain> :)
18:55:00  <TrueBrain> perfect balance!
19:01:08  <frosch123> it's more active than simuscape
19:07:28  <glx> moving background during newgrf scan is very nice, even if the intro game is not running at that time
19:08:06  <frosch123> newgrf scan does not take so long in release builds
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19:08:51  <glx> oh it does if it's the first start and nothing of the 1300+ newgrf is cached by the OS yet
19:09:16  <glx> still way faster than debug build
19:13:14  <frosch123> what is the actual reason the titlegame does not run during newgrf scan?
19:16:02  <glx> modal window
19:17:09  <glx> and the scan needs to happen in main thread to not break anything I think
19:19:52  <frosch123> ah found it... ScanNewGRFFiles is indeed called inside GameLoop
19:20:03  <frosch123> so it runs inside the gamethread
19:20:14  <frosch123> took some time to follow that control flow :p
19:20:44  <glx> yeah but easier to follow than some other parts of the source
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19:34:56  <frosch123> looks like running the titlegame during newgrf scan is less of an issue, it does not access grfconfigs
19:35:18  <frosch123> but if the online content window is opened, and refreshes stuff, that's a problem :p
19:35:53  <frosch123> putting the newgrf scan into a thread requires some work
19:36:13  <frosch123> but it's not completely out of reach
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19:36:43  <TrueBrain> so many things we can split away in their own thread or outside of the gameloop :P
19:36:46  <TrueBrain> GET TO IT ALREADY! :D
19:36:50  <TrueBrain> <3
19:37:38  <frosch123> i wonder how filesystems perform under load of multiple threads
19:38:04  <frosch123> is newgrf scan faster if we scan directories/tars/newgrf in parallel
19:38:12  <frosch123> or is everything waiting for the filesystem?
19:38:41  <TrueBrain> I would guess it depends on your medium
19:38:47  <TrueBrain> but honestly, the correct answer is neither .. but: cache!
19:38:48  <TrueBrain> :D
19:39:02  <dwfreed> if it's all random i/o, like stats and such, you might see increased performance by adding a second thread to further saturate the drive
19:39:38  <glx> just a guess, but scanning files inside a tar should probably be faster (only one open file in this case)
19:40:02  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i am pretty sure that reading a single file of the size of all newgrf would be faster, than resolving 1400 paths to disks on file
19:40:13  <frosch123> i blame the filesystem more than the disk :p
19:40:31  <frosch123> *files on disk
19:40:34  <TrueBrain> still: cache the results!
19:40:36  <TrueBrain> :D
19:40:38  <glx> blame windows, it's the worse when reading files
19:40:58  <frosch123> TrueBrain: so an extra thread that just reads the files to prefetch them into cache? :p
19:41:08  <frosch123> (while discarding all read content)
19:41:24  <glx> but once a file has been open it's cached in free ram
19:41:48  <TrueBrain> I don't care how you use cache, just: CACHE IT!
19:42:27  <TrueBrain> its the universal solution to everything
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20:51:43  <andythenorth> hmm
20:51:46  * andythenorth caches TrueBrain 
20:52:05  <andythenorth> then we have invalidation problems
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21:09:08  <peter1138> What if you thread him?
21:10:37  <andythenorth> then we n + 1 problems
21:11:11  <andythenorth> lol @ mac users still complaining they can't buy separate ram sticks for their laptop
21:11:16  <andythenorth> like it's 1999
21:11:26  * andythenorth should have an internet break
21:16:43  * andythenorth wonders why the integrated CPU-GPU-RAM package can't have some nice SO-DIMM slots attached to it
21:16:48  <andythenorth> I mean...why not
21:18:44  <peter1138> 36 pin SIMMs...
21:19:47  <peter1138> Oh, my memory. They were 30 pin.
21:20:39  <glx> EDO ?
21:21:24  <peter1138> EDO wasn't until 72 pin SIMMs.
21:21:57  <glx> ah right 72 pins SIMM and 144 pins SO-DIMM
21:24:31  * andythenorth remembers there were rules about combining
21:24:52  <andythenorth> weren't there some sockets that could have half or full length sticks?
21:25:00  <andythenorth> and sticks could be single or double sided
21:26:45  <peter1138> There was never length changes.
21:29:39  <peter1138> In the old days I had some 30 pin SIPs lyihng around too.
21:32:15  <andythenorth> maybe I am thinking of half length PCI slots
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21:34:22  <peter1138> ISA yes, PCI not really (PCI-X could accept PCI but was rare outside of high end servers), AGP no, and of course PCI-E is designed for it.
21:39:03  <peter1138> Glad I know all this useless shite.
21:39:51  <frosch123> my brother had VLB slots
21:40:12  <frosch123> i don't think there were longer ones
21:40:32  <andythenorth> glad I didn't keep all the computer crap I bought :)
21:40:43  <andythenorth> we had a whole draw of SO-DIMMs for a bit
21:40:49  <andythenorth> drawer *
21:41:12  <andythenorth> so much ethernet cable
21:41:27  <andythenorth> so many external HDs
21:41:58  <andythenorth> we had a 2 fire safes with USB and firewire hard drives in
21:42:01  <andythenorth> both 1m tall
21:42:10  <andythenorth> got rid of all that crap :)
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21:44:58  <andythenorth> oof is it bedtime already?
21:45:08  * andythenorth was making pixels
21:48:10  <andythenorth> oh fuck this, can we ban this one from the github?
21:49:07  <andythenorth> they're out and out bullying people, no github comments for them
21:49:12  <andythenorth>
21:50:14  <frosch123> you are kind of late :p
21:51:04  <andythenorth> I wasn't keeping up :P
21:51:27  <andythenorth> I saw their comments this morning, I thought they'd get bored and give up eventually
21:51:34  <andythenorth> seems not
21:51:49  <andythenorth> elite players, who can't somehow cope with changing a setting
21:53:00  <frosch123> just enjoy how the serverlist is dominated by non-dedicated servers :)
21:53:19  <LordAro> ooh, i can block them AND send them a notification about it
21:53:39  <LordAro> i've reported several of their reddit comments too, not sure how actively moderated that sub is though
21:53:53  <LordAro> block them from the OTTD GH org*
21:54:02  <frosch123> after one comment?
21:55:03  <andythenorth> bullying in other contexts
21:55:14  <andythenorth> so yeah block
21:55:44  * andythenorth bored of elements of this community, they can find another train game to play
21:55:51  <andythenorth> this is our shed, it's a nice shed
21:55:53  <peter1138> have i done it wrong
21:56:34  <andythenorth> what did you done?
21:56:44  <LordAro> peter1138: you're allowed to swear on the internet
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21:57:41  <peter1138> that's just polite swearing hah
22:01:54  * LordAro has done it wrong as well
22:02:20  <LordAro> vitriol is a good word
22:03:14  <dP> I'm kinda perplexed that despite all that bitching none of those bastards were arsed to at least slap a like on twoway_eol pr :/
22:04:42  <frosch123> haha, if you know about twoway_eol, then you know how to change a setting
22:05:04  <andythenorth> I can't get past "but new players just need to learn by doing it wrong, more signals are better"
22:05:12  <andythenorth> but "there are too many settings, I can't work it out"
22:05:58  <frosch123> stop assuming comments to be rational :p
22:06:06  <andythenorth> mine often aren't :)
22:06:15  <andythenorth> meta meta game, picking holes in them :P
22:06:22  <andythenorth> mine are barely coherent
22:14:36  <LordAro> peter1138: not to be that guy, but you do have a "OpenTTD Team" next to your name
22:14:45  <LordAro> it's not a great look to be calling people names
22:15:01  <LordAro> however much they may deserve it
22:16:51  <peter1138> Fine
22:17:16  <peter1138> Not a great look for who?
22:17:50  <LordAro> the 'team'
22:18:10  <LordAro> context is not readily apparent
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22:21:37  <peter1138> Oh look, someone has a server up called "We hate"
22:23:09  <LordAro> ffs
22:23:34  <LordAro> TrueBrain: are you still awake?
22:23:44  <dP> did you just notice racism in openttd?
22:23:58  <dP> I've lost count to how many players I banned for swastikas and shit
22:24:29  <LordAro> TrueBrain: and if not, please write down somewhere the process for IP banning
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22:25:44  <TrueBrain> Is this what we have become? Ugggghhhhhhhhh
22:26:13  <TrueBrain> You need AWS access to apply an IP ban .. as it is not suppose to be a thing that happens :p
22:27:15  <TrueBrain> The GC had a blacklist (with 1 entry) .. we could make that dynamic, I guess ..
22:27:26  <TrueBrain> Had = has
22:30:58  <TrueBrain> server will disappear in a few minutes; but I am not going to police server-names. So if this keeps on being an issue, we will need another approach to this :)
22:31:19  <LordAro> indeed
22:32:13  <glx> being forced to analyse server names is sad
22:32:43  <andythenorth> do we end up playing word list games? :|
22:33:18  <LordAro> how about making STUN/TURN servers unadvertised?
22:33:24  <LordAro> is that possible?
22:33:29  <TrueBrain> this last server is a direct-ip server
22:33:48  <glx> in the end we'll have GC check the server name and just don't publish it
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22:34:10  <TrueBrain> as long as I do not have to maintain that list ... :P
22:34:50  <peter1138> "The only way to prevent offensive user input is to prevent all user input."
22:36:09  * andythenorth had to deal with the scunthorpe problem in flash games
22:36:26  <TrueBrain> we had a good run ;)
22:36:55  <glx> yeah the only issue we used to have with server names is the spam
22:37:13  <glx> and the fight to be on top of the list
22:37:34  <dP> pretty sure that's not the first server with n-word :p
22:37:46  <dP> just nobody bothered to check
22:37:51  <andythenorth> hmm
22:38:04  <andythenorth> specific to swastikas, when I was a kid it did not have the same shock value
22:38:27  <andythenorth> we used to draw swastikas on toy cars and stuff, for army
22:38:50  <andythenorth> now it's like entry-level trigger-the-libs thing
22:38:52  <TrueBrain> ignoring the weird server-names, having a list of non-sense servernames on top is a bit annoying .. I wonder if we can make it better
22:39:05  <dwfreed> eliminate server names
22:39:14  <dwfreed> each server gets an ID from GC
22:39:19  <TrueBrain> in-game locked servers are sorted lower than open ones
22:39:27  <TrueBrain> guess we can do that on the web too
22:39:36  <TrueBrain> dwfreed: that is already the case ;)
22:39:42  <TrueBrain> (the latter part, not the first, ofc)
22:39:54  <dwfreed> then only surface the ID :)
22:40:17  <TrueBrain> that would instantly kill the public servers :P
22:40:44  <TrueBrain> I think changing the order of servers on the website already goes a long way :)
22:42:27  <TrueBrain> needs changing for that
22:42:31  <TrueBrain> but I first need to get some zzzzz
22:43:06  <dP> when I was a kid I remember some random passerby scolded us for drawing something that apparently was some nazi symbol we didn't even know about
22:50:05  *** arikover has quit IRC
23:00:32  <andythenorth> also zzzzz time
23:00:35  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
23:02:54  *** Etua has quit IRC
23:39:41  <peter1138> Wait, why did my code work first time?
23:42:24  <dP> glitch in the matrix
23:49:20  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened issue #9624: Debug: Game does not compile when RANDOM_DEBUG or ENABLE_NETWORK_SYNC_EVERY_FRAME are defined

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