Log for #openttd on 4th November 2021:
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00:09:11  <dP> I think I know the ultimate solution to all minimap-ish rendering issues - rotated cache
00:09:33  <dP> it's not that hard to enumerate map into an array in order of diagonals
00:10:05  <dP> then pass it to blitter and it will have mostly sequential data
00:11:33  <dP> and tiles don't update that often so non-sequential cache update is fine
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02:38:22  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened issue #9669: [Bug]: Ships can exit depots and locks through the sides if the exit is a dead end
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07:52:13  <peter1138> Always love it when my keyboard needs to be rebooted...
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09:35:50  * andythenorth adventures in architectures
09:36:01  <andythenorth> grfcodec works on the m1, but I don't understand why
09:37:25  <LordAro> magic.
09:37:29  <andythenorth> oh architecture is sticky, child processes will prefer the arch of the parent process, which I think is using rosetta
09:37:39  <andythenorth> not sure, but it works
09:37:59  * andythenorth considers trying to compile an arm version of grfcodec :P
09:42:41  <orudge> andythenorth: shouldn't be a problem
09:44:10  <andythenorth> ha my grfcodec checkout is an old mercurial one
09:44:15  * andythenorth will come back to this :P
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11:14:57  <peter1138> Has it been updated much beyond that?
11:27:58  <LordAro> nope
11:41:16  <peter1138> Hmm, damn, so my team want to be able to preconfigure a tablet to log in to a web system, but the authentication system currently only emails the login details to the end user -- the person setting up the device won't have it. Hmm.
11:41:47  <peter1138> Having to resist the "can we just have a default password for new accounts" bullshit :/
11:43:54  <dP> you can do some hashing for new acccounts
11:44:47  <nielsm> I'm guessing some SSO system is off the table already
11:45:45  <nielsm> (either because of vendor SSO tax, or no SSO capable account is in place in the org, or the system in question is just bad)
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11:49:49  <peter1138> It's all custom developed, but yes, it's probably just bad as I wrote it all...
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12:00:09  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] killory opened issue #9670: [Bug]: Two way rail signals
12:05:27  <LordAro> heh
12:07:41  <dP> I like how he doesn't even seem to be aware of other signal types
12:08:30  <dP> is there some setting to hide signal gui?
12:36:12  <LordAro> not that i'm aware of..
12:36:25  <peter1138> nielsm, we create accounts in advance as we need to set the user rights up first, so authenticating via an external OAuth would need that to be prelinked somehow anyway, AFAICT.
13:49:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #9670: [Bug]: Two way rail signals
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15:18:34  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] killory commented on issue #9670: [Bug]: Two way rail signals
15:20:46  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on issue #9670: [Bug]: Two way rail signals
15:21:13  <LordAro> i wonder whether it would be useful to just show all results regardless of category when searching
15:21:37  <LordAro> (and change "filter" to "search")
15:22:29  <dP> just remove category
15:22:37  <dP> only useful there is non-default
15:22:51  <LordAro> perhaps, yes
15:23:00  <LordAro> but that's contentious :p
15:34:58  <dP> pretty much every other program does tabbed window for settings, only openttd tries to reinvent the wheel
15:35:22  <dP> well, I guess in some sense it started to invent before many but that's a poor excuse for still using square wheels :P
15:41:17  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] killory commented on issue #9670: [Bug]: Two way rail signals
15:47:40  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] nielsmh updated pull request #229: Add: Blog post about the 12.0 signals UI change
15:48:49  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] nielsmh updated pull request #229: Add: Blog post about the 12.0 signals UI change
15:51:06  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] nielsmh updated pull request #229: Add: Blog post about the 12.0 signals UI change
15:52:14  <nielsm>  <-- should rearrange that page to explain path signals first
15:54:33  <dP> btw, mb rearrange path signals so one-way is first?
16:14:49  <nielsm> hmm... for the pictures I want to insert in the post, is there a max width I should observe?
16:18:23  <Eddi|zuHause> dP: which target audience is supposed to benefit from that?
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16:22:49  <dP> Lawful neutral
16:23:05  <nielsm> images for use in newsfeed posts, where should they go? static/img/ or _posts/subdir-named-after-post/ or something else?
16:25:15  <LordAro> i'm not sure any news post has ever used an image before :D
16:27:39  <nielsm> I'm also not sure what the syntax, if any, to include images in this markdown dialect is
16:38:55  <dP> oh, looks like intel has a new openttd processor xD
16:39:01  <dP> that doubles as a cooking stove :p
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16:57:20  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] nielsmh updated pull request #229: Add: Blog post about the 12.0 signals UI change
16:57:21  <nielsm> let's see if this works...
17:01:48  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Linkgold opened issue #9671: [Crash]:
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17:03:15  <nielsm> nope, didn't work because of a syntax error
17:04:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #9664: [Crash]: Whenever I idle on the main menu for too long the game gives a fatal error
17:04:43  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #9671: [Crash]:
17:04:50  <glx> even when we keep a report with a workong solution in it, people fail to find it
17:06:56  <LordAro> i've pinned #9622 and given it a better title now
17:07:08  <LordAro> you never know, might help
17:07:19  <LordAro> failing that, windows build will start working tonight, ...right? :D
17:07:39  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] nielsmh updated pull request #229: Add: Blog post about the 12.0 signals UI change
17:07:50  <glx> I hope
17:08:01  <glx> but I have a pf bug to fix first :)
17:08:10  <LordAro> better get a move on then :)
17:13:03  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] nielsmh updated pull request #229: Add: Blog post about the 12.0 signals UI change
17:13:18  <nielsm> a local build for the website would be smart when trying to do something like this
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17:19:36  <TrueBrain> Or codespaces ... but that is not out yet :D
17:20:31  <frosch123> TrueBrain: your try-catch worked :) what is your guess? did james try to reproduce the open issue?
17:21:07  <TrueBrain> Wouldn't surprise me :D
17:22:38  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] nielsmh updated pull request #229: Add: Blog post about the 12.0 signals UI change
17:24:44  <nielsm> TrueBrain: how do I preview the post? :)
17:25:24  <TrueBrain> Build it locally ;)
17:25:58  <glx> of course I was trying to fix yapf first for #9669, but it's using NPF
17:26:03  <TrueBrain> And we normally make local branches for the website. In that case Cloudflare makes a preview too
17:26:18  <TrueBrain> It cannot make a preview from a fork
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17:36:09  <peter1138> That signals page needs a massive overhaul :/
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18:18:04  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] nielsmh updated pull request #229: Add: Blog post about the 12.0 signals UI change
18:27:49  <nielsm>  preview
18:29:38  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #9672: Fix #9669, cbe00ec: Only try valid reverse directions
18:31:02  <glx> Version: 20211102.4 <-- nightly will be fine ;)
18:31:22  <LordAro> \o/
18:31:27  <LordAro> 12.1 when?
18:33:50  <dP> nielsm, imo this whole "safe stopping point" thing for path signals is overinflated to a point of being harmful
18:34:03  <dP> it's a deadlock prevention rule, not a design philosophy
18:34:16  <dP> should only be applied whenever there is a possibility of deadlock
18:34:17  <nielsm> I'll scrap the two last sentences
18:34:22  <dP> which sometimes is never
18:35:28  <Timberwolf> Yes. Nothing the manual says is technically incorrect, but an awful lot of bad extrapolation happens.
18:36:09  <peter1138> In the Y-merge junction there is an unsafe signal.
18:36:20  <nielsm> true...
18:40:36  <nielsm>   there's an updated
18:40:48  <nielsm> I also added some notes about the capacity of each example
18:44:07  <dP> should also mention something like this imo
18:44:12  <dP> but far the most important junction
18:44:22  <frosch123> it's weird to post blogs to the website, noone can comment on them, but maybe that's the point :p
18:44:44  <dP> *but->by
18:45:13  <Timberwolf> Oh yes. This stuff is total and utter "well, actually..." bait.
18:49:34  <LordAro> better make sure it's correct then :)
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18:50:22  <nielsm>  there, added a flyover version
18:56:19  <nielsm> oh, I need to retake all the screenshots, they're taken with original graphics instead of opengfx... is that a problem?
18:56:50  <peter1138> "you need to upgrade" ... "you may need to upgrade"
18:57:27  <frosch123> nielsm: also use the signal gui from 12.1 then, with the resize button
18:57:38  <peter1138> Cue all the people wanting to copy and paste these layouts because it's too hard to make by hand...
18:58:11  <frosch123> nielsm: anyway, screenshots and wiki are a random selection of basesets
18:58:41  <frosch123> though some people put in the effort ni the past, to make most stuff on the wiki ogfx, especially the gui
18:59:07  <dP> also blue on orange is a terrible color choice :p
19:01:36  <dP> btw, there are jgrpp screenshots in wiki ;)
19:02:02  <frosch123> really? i did not know people were active on the wiki since jgrpp existed
19:02:08  <frosch123> is jgrpp so old?
19:02:40  <dP> yeah, there were signals on bridges somewhere...
19:03:38  <dP>
19:04:15  <frosch123> ah, the infamous junctionary :)
19:08:02  <frosch123> do bridges only allow standard block signals?
19:08:51  <frosch123> though there is a 1w-pbs at the end of the bridges
19:10:12  <dP> all I know it's complicated xD
19:10:41  <frosch123> yes, it's "very hard" to build
19:10:54  <frosch123> no idea why "hills: yes" is red
19:10:58  <frosch123> there are no hills?
19:13:03  <dP> -should it be red or green? -yes
19:13:39  <FLHerne> frosch123: presumably it means "slopes"  [on the main lines?]
19:15:19  <frosch123> i'll file it under "entertainment"
19:16:16  <frosch123> intranet-forum at work also has several "entertainment" channels
19:16:18  <FLHerne> Yeah, Junctionary is absurd
19:16:45  <FLHerne> it's just a collection of random ideas people dreamed up, most of them objectively terrible
19:28:58  <dP> I'm tempted to add bunch of stuff from my screenshots there just for lulz xD
19:29:00  <dP>
19:29:51  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] nielsmh updated pull request #229: Add: Blog post about the 12.0 signals UI change
19:30:14  <frosch123> i'm tempted to add a "terrain requirement: flat (noob level)" :p
19:30:57  <nielsm>  looks a bit better with ogfx really, the desert tiles have a less aggressive color
19:31:38  <TrueBrain> I see frosch123 is trying to make friends :)
19:32:01  <frosch123> TrueBrain: if you want to play on flat terrain and with copy&paste, better play factorio
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19:32:15  <TrueBrain> you don't pay my subscription!
19:32:17  <frosch123> i think the flat terrain is actually the weak point of factorio
19:34:52  <frosch123> someone i don't remember once said: the difference between rts and moba is, in rts you play games with the same units but on different maps, in moba you play games with different units but always the same map
19:35:03  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] nielsmh commented on pull request #229: Add: Blog post about the 12.0 signals UI change
19:35:14  <frosch123> for me ottd is a "different map etch time" game, i don't understand why people play on flat maps :)
19:36:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Linkgold commented on issue #9671: [Crash]: On startup within a few seconds
19:36:23  <dP> it's remarkably annoying to build stuff on hilly maps though
19:36:53  <dP> like, I'm holding my ideas on alpine servers until I make a better polyrail
19:37:37  <frosch123> in exciting news: windows nightly built!
19:43:27  <TrueBrain> party?
19:43:28  <TrueBrain> cake?
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19:50:53  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #9672: Fix #9669, cbe00ec: Only try valid reverse directions
19:51:10  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #9672: Fix #9669, cbe00ec: Only try valid reverse directions
19:57:56  <TrueBrain> hihi;;
20:01:01  <frosch123> how long does cloudflare cache pages?
20:01:21  <TrueBrain> why?
20:01:32  <TrueBrain> (as in, why you ask?)
20:01:58  <frosch123> the nightly page still lists the old nightly
20:02:02  <frosch123> (for me)
20:02:49  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #9672: Fix #9669, cbe00ec: Only try valid reverse directions
20:02:49  <TrueBrain> ah; it should invalidate as soon as it pushes a new one, but I think it still picks up some old cache rules I have
20:02:52  <TrueBrain> in that case: max 2 hours
20:03:20  <frosch123> ok, i am not watching it then :p
20:03:37  <glx> easy to guess why there was two semicolon twice
20:03:40  <TrueBrain> click on nightly
20:03:45  <frosch123> james will have to wait a bit longer for issue closure
20:03:45  <TrueBrain> it does have a newer version
20:04:33  <TrueBrain> as in, is updated (for me)
20:04:38  <frosch123> for me every html page shows a different "doenload header" :)
20:04:46  <frosch123> some say 20211025, some say 20211103
20:05:03  <TrueBrain> I will fix that soon (tm)
20:05:10  <frosch123> as in: yes the publishing worked, it's some cache issue
20:06:18  <TrueBrain> basically, Cloudflare caches Cloudflare Pages
20:06:23  <TrueBrain> and if the cache-control is poorly set, it will keep it around for longer than need be :)
20:43:36  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #9668: [Bug]: No nightly builds are published after October 25.
20:43:39  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 closed issue #9668: [Bug]: No nightly builds are published after October 25.
20:45:17  <TrueBrain> poor frosch123 , didn't even have to tell him :P
20:46:41  <frosch123> funnily i still get the cached page :p
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21:48:54  <frosch123> 2 hours was correct :)
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