Log for #openttd on 10th November 2021:
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02:38:37  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] buttercup5 commented on pull request #9639: Feature: Ctrl-click to remove fully autoreplaced vehicles from list
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05:12:55  <while> I'm also trying to figure out if there's a way to call/invoke a C routine/function from a Squirrel routine within my AI
05:15:06  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] odisseus commented on pull request #9002: Change cargo age to have more effect on cargo payment.
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06:26:25  <LordAro> while: there is no way to call native functions (beyond what is defined in the API, ofc)
06:36:36  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Rau117 started discussion #9687: Suggestion: Change behaviour of the «expand signal menu» butto
06:42:30  <LordAro> ...
06:47:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] iTKerry commented on issue #9686: [Suggestion]: Change behaviour of the «expand signal menu» button
06:51:59  <LordAro> there's no response i can make to that that's worth anyone's time, is there?
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08:13:02  <Xaroth> Well your response is a bit.. crass
08:16:44  <Xaroth> I mean, somebody just put in what appears to be a good amount of time writing up a suggestion, in their non-native language, and you dismiss it with a 'nah'
08:17:46  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #9686: [Suggestion]: Change behaviour of the «expand signal menu» button
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08:25:02  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Rau117 commented on issue #9686: [Suggestion]: Change behaviour of the «expand signal menu» button
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08:37:14  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #9686: [Suggestion]: Change behaviour of the «expand signal menu» button
08:42:21  <TrueBrain> Nice he admits he knew it was the wrong place .. I love it that I do not have to guess peoples intention :)
08:59:04  <LordAro> thanks TrueBrain :)
08:59:53  <LordAro> Xaroth: you're not wrong
09:00:45  <LordAro> Rau has previous form for trying to trample over people they disagree with, and I couldn't be bothered dealing with it further
09:01:01  <LordAro> (especially when they definitely had chance to voice opinions in the original signal gui PR)
09:02:40  <LordAro> also, I suspect they encourage brigading of issues where they're not getting their own way
09:02:51  <LordAro> (though have no proof of this)
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09:33:21  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on discussion #9687: Suggestion: Change behaviour of the «expand signal menu» btn
09:33:31  * LordAro grabs some popcorn for himself
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09:57:29  <Xaroth> LordAro: you weren't wrong either, it's just that people who don't know the story behind it will only see one side of the coin :)
09:58:29  <LordAro> indeed
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10:26:37  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge merged pull request #9684: Change: Explicitly specify SHA1 for legacy code signing on Windows
11:00:42  <while> LordAro: thank you
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11:39:45  * andythenorth doesn't reply to those
11:40:04  <andythenorth> the world struggles with "largely we don't pay any attention to suggestions, why would we?"
11:40:39  * andythenorth made a video guide to it 15 years ago
11:45:26  <Timberwolf> The world struggles with, "people who've spend many years maintaining and extending a game have a good track record of spotting the difference between a widespread issue and a vocal minority"
11:46:55  <LordAro> andythenorth: that is... a thing
11:46:58  <LordAro> :D
11:50:46  <andythenorth> I mean I have literally spent 20 years now building products for democracy
11:51:05  <andythenorth> but undifferentiated feedback or 'suggestions' is really just not useful for getting anything done
11:51:12  <andythenorth> nor for democratic accountability :P
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11:51:25  <andythenorth> fortunately we don't have to be democratically accountable here
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12:00:00  <Timberwolf> Clearly we need lobbying.
12:00:33  <Timberwolf> Offer TrueBrain €150,000/year for 3 hours per month "consulting", then the signal dialog can be whatever you want it to be.
12:04:32  <LordAro> i misread "consulting" as "counselling"
12:05:18  <andythenorth> 'cash for questions'
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12:21:34  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on discussion #9687: Suggestion: Change behaviour of the «expand signal menu» btn
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12:31:19  <dP> oh, #9474 was never merged, no wonder I didn't recall seeing it
12:57:25  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Rau117 commented on discussion #9687: Suggestion: Change behaviour of the «expand signal menu» btn
12:57:46  * LordAro readies popcorn
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13:08:04  <dP> no popcorn for actors :p
13:09:15  <LordAro> i can see the default signal type being removed being annoying
13:10:54  <LordAro> it resetting for each game session could be annoying
13:13:11  <dP> yeah, I think I even mentioned that in initial pr
13:16:00  <LordAro> i'd have no issues getting rid of it from the settings GUI though
13:16:22  <dP> also
13:16:32  <dP> idk why he never PRed it
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17:41:35  <andythenorth> quak
17:41:51  <frosch123> moo
17:42:31  <frosch123> andythenorth: How is the tram-2-rail DLC l proposed going? Is it still just an idea, is it being programmed or is it already uploaded, ready to apply?
17:42:57  <andythenorth> it is nearly ready to apply
17:43:08  <andythenorth> just the final 100% to do
17:43:35  <andythenorth> but the main thing is that the idea exists, and ideas are the valuable part
17:43:42  * andythenorth may be telling some lies
17:44:14  <frosch123> on sunday i thought it was a regular 13yo
17:44:30  <frosch123> but with that 3-day follow up, i am not sure :p
17:57:47  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on discussion #9687: Suggestion: Change behaviour of the «expand signal menu» btn
18:52:09  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
18:52:10  <DorpsGek>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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19:05:49  <frosch123> <- the first 3:30 are a piece of art for ux design :)
19:06:32  <frosch123> at first i thought that was intentional, but the remaining 6 minutes are normal
19:07:15  <frosch123> (2:40 is my personal highlight)
19:07:40  <nielsm> "ASMR Gaming" -- blasts openmsx with a kinda bad soundfont
19:08:07  <frosch123> true, music is very loud, but you can mute it
19:08:13  <frosch123> nothing is said
19:08:38  <LordAro> default windows soundfont, i think
19:08:46  <nielsm> nope
19:08:54  <nielsm> quite sure it isn't
19:09:08  * LordAro defers to nielsm
19:09:19  <LordAro> you've definitely spent more time with soundfonts than i have :p
19:11:07  <nielsm> tbh I rarely listen to windows' built in synth nowadays, after getting some old hardware GM synths
19:17:59  <LordAro> regardless, clearly this is the best version
19:22:19  <frosch123> is that from the mobile version? or unrelated?
19:22:31  <nielsm> unrelated I think
19:22:47  <nielsm> apart from the mobile version probably making broomhall revisit the compositions
19:23:32  <LordAro> featured in the mobile versions, but i'm pretty sure this predates it
19:24:44  <frosch123> hmm, video title says 2014, forum section says 2013, video description says "for the 2014 re-release"
19:24:52  <frosch123> people can't agree on years :)
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20:03:04  * andythenorth having adventures in low-code / no-code
20:03:10  <andythenorth> it involves writing code, in a GUI
20:04:01  <frosch123> it's a success if your customers use it. it's a disaster if you have to use it or give support
20:04:17  <nielsm> ah yes the "if you aren't using the keyboard to type textual code then it isn't code" school of thought?
20:04:58  <andythenorth> looks somewhat like
20:05:26  <andythenorth> I was hoping it would be rather better than it is
20:05:27  <frosch123> nielsm: it's important if "those who make the buy decision" are not "those who use it"
20:05:34  <nielsm> store some data, aggregate some arrays, do some maths, then send an email. cool.
20:05:52  <andythenorth> it eliminates everything to do with hosting production code
20:05:54  <frosch123> managers/buyers are very happy if they *think* they understand something
20:05:54  <andythenorth> which is good
20:06:02  <andythenorth> it is *not* no-code
20:06:10  <andythenorth> it is not even low-code
20:06:16  <andythenorth> it's just low boilerplate
20:06:20  <andythenorth> and 'no deps hassles'
20:06:47  <andythenorth> it's both better and worse than I expected
20:10:18  <andythenorth> actually using this requires fairly substantial engineering skill
20:10:45  <andythenorth> just not the kind that spends all day dealing with 'oh the deps are broken again, wtf is it this time?'
20:11:11  <frosch123> the problem is: using it requires more skill than you think when just looking at it :)
20:11:28  <frosch123> that's why it's cool if you can sell it, but do not have to use it
20:12:15  <andythenorth> 'cool' is definitely not the word I have been using today :)
20:13:04  <frosch123> so the customer was older than 35 :p
20:13:49  <andythenorth> the customer is sitting very close to me
20:13:59  <andythenorth> and looks just like me
20:15:19  <frosch123> can your kids use it?
20:17:00  <andythenorth> hmm
20:17:03  <andythenorth> unknown :)
20:17:13  <andythenorth> it's probably quite similar to Scratch
20:17:33  <andythenorth>*oDbEFNhoM75KOnvF.
20:17:43  <andythenorth> meh bad link
20:18:21  <andythenorth> editable irc when? :P
20:20:16  <frosch123> irc is logged in realtime into underground storage, and replicated in a nuclear-safe way. everything you say on irc is useable in court in original, non-modified form
20:20:38  <andythenorth> original internet
20:20:44  <andythenorth> survives the death of civilisation
20:22:01  <frosch123> in one of the many "the timemachine" movies, the protagonist finds some remnants of "the internet"
20:22:31  <frosch123> and the bot recognized them as: aren't you the guy who inquired about the existence of time travel 2000 years ago?
20:22:38  <andythenorth> ha
20:23:18  <Timberwolf> We use one of those "no-code" platforms, that in reality is quite code-intensive, but it saves time because it's basically a big pile of the sort of things you'd spend ages boilerplating like "make an editable reflection of a database table in the browser"
20:23:46  * andythenorth has great hopes
20:24:01  <Timberwolf> I suspect some of the time it saves is just because there's no real engineering process like testing or code review.
20:24:22  * andythenorth hopes for a world where we don't have discussions like 'well we could write a python app and run it on a jenkins job'
20:24:25  <andythenorth> but then we don't
20:24:27  <Timberwolf> Also it ends up costing a bunch of time because the people who make it keep adding features and ignoring all the bits they've broken.
20:24:31  <andythenorth> because bigger fish to fry
20:24:58  <frosch123> do you generate python code from the drawn graph?
20:25:02  <andythenorth> ha
20:25:23  <Timberwolf> But, still addictively useful for "we just need an internal user to be able to configure this database table with some basic guard rails in place" things.
20:25:43  <andythenorth> I have been using a web CMS for years where you can just write raw python in a web GUI
20:26:11  <andythenorth> it has many problems, but it is incredibly powerful and I can write internal tools without needing engineers
20:26:33  <andythenorth> but it doesn't play well in the world of remote APIs and webhooks
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20:46:07  * andythenorth considers building grf publishing pipeline in integromat :P
20:46:14  <andythenorth> can we have bananas support pls? :P
20:46:23  <andythenorth>
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20:51:07  <LordAro> msys 'cd ${CI_PROJECT_DIR_MSYS}/langkit/langkit/templates/python_api && cp module_py.mako module_py.makoclean && sed \"/LoadLibrary/i list(os.add_dll_directory(path) for path in os.environ[\\"PATH\\"].split(os.path.pathsep) if os.path.exists(path))\" module_py.makoclean > module_py.mako && git diff'
20:51:17  <LordAro> i think this might be the single worst line of code/script i've ever written
20:54:01  <frosch123> andythenorth:
20:54:12  <frosch123> it has no swagger/openapi thingie, just plain json
20:56:07  <andythenorth> hmm such things :D
20:57:56  <Wolf01> I need a pipeline which programs for me
21:02:51  <andythenorth> I have been seeking that for 20 years
21:02:57  <andythenorth> I somewhat call it 'employees'
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