Log for #openttd on 11th November 2021:
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09:12:28  <andythenorth> low-code lolz continue
09:12:35  <andythenorth> I don't understand how this is supposed to work
09:12:53  <andythenorth> it requires a new skill that I'm not sure exists
09:12:58  <andythenorth> "not getting really angry"
09:13:45  <andythenorth> so far the experience is considerably LESS fun than using Azure
09:13:51  <andythenorth> and that's saying something
09:34:55  <LordAro> what is low-code?
09:36:24  <Xaroth> it's developing without writing code
09:36:35  <Xaroth> It's worse than it sounds.
09:56:26  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] cbeyer opened issue #9688: [Crash]: Crash on startup / 1.12.1 / MacOs
09:56:47  <andythenorth> it's much much worse than it sounds
09:57:05  <andythenorth> things like
09:57:52  <Xaroth> I've had the 'pleasure' of supporting some 'developers' who used Mendix
09:58:20  <Xaroth> What they didn't want to understand is that programming is about more than just attaching strings to items to make them move
09:58:35  * andythenorth considers trying Mendix
09:59:00  <Xaroth> but that's the entire problem of low-code, it aspires to non-programmers to start solving programmer issues
09:59:37  <Xaroth> sure, you can throw an infinite amount of monkeys at it, but without typewriters, you're still not getting a shakespeare.
09:59:40  <andythenorth> I have been using web CMS for 20 years where I use fields, some python, and some templates, all through a web UI
09:59:44  <andythenorth> works great
10:00:44  <andythenorth> the modern version of no-code seems to involve connecting 3rd party services where the docs are just lies
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10:22:02  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #9688: [Crash]: Crash on startup / 1.12.1 / MacOs
10:25:39  <Timberwolf> Retool (the low-code platform I'm familiar with) is ultimately just people trying to reinvent Windows Visual Basic for the web world.
10:26:07  <Timberwolf> Create form. Drag table control onto form. Add ODBC connection. Add onSave function...
10:30:03  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge commented on issue #9688: [Crash]: Crash on startup / 1.12.1 / MacOs
10:31:58  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #9688: [Crash]: Crash on startup / 1.12.1 / MacOs
10:50:30  <andythenorth> my experience is less like visual basic :P
10:51:26  <Timberwolf> The one you have looks more like a Zapier sort of thing at first glance, more for connecting lots of stuff than building internal apps?
10:51:38  <andythenorth> it's a flavour of Zapier yes
10:52:31  <andythenorth> so the main activity goes like 'request access to google service, await authorisation, perform authorisation, navigate google help docs, discover google docs are lacking key information or are lies, solve that, configure integration, dsicover it's not quite useful, try to revoke authorisation, do ISMS paperwork'
10:52:48  <andythenorth> it's quite similar to using Azure :P
10:53:14  <andythenorth> there is very little code, but an awful lot of very anxiety inducing management of access, creds and keys
10:53:59  <andythenorth> I think these things are very hard to do in a high compliance environment
10:54:20  <andythenorth> but the alternative is copy-pasting lots of data around manually, which is also problematic, for integrity and control reasons
11:50:27  <FLHerne> andythenorth: FIRS has this thing where most industries use all the same tile, and then the tiles switch on position and layout_num for graphics
11:50:51  <andythenorth> yes
11:51:01  <FLHerne> Is that just because it's easier to codegen, or does it enable something that wouldn't work otherwise?
11:51:18  <FLHerne> I'm not quite seeing the point ;-)
11:51:57  <FLHerne> (also, I can see a few industries like the steel mill do use multiple tile types, and I haven't figured out why yet :p)
11:56:34  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] cbeyer commented on issue #9688: [Crash]: Crash on startup / 12.1 / MacOs
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12:31:10  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge opened pull request #9689: Add: Specify minimum version for macOS
12:41:44  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #9689: Add: Specify minimum version for macOS
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13:15:49  <andythenorth> FLHerne it's because we'd run out of tiles very quickly
13:16:15  <andythenorth> "OpenTTD can have 512 IDs for all active grf files, but that includes non-overridden original tiles."
13:16:57  <andythenorth> a typical industry might consume 10-20 tiles if unique IDs
13:20:06  <andythenorth> where you see 2 or 3 tiles defined, it relates to static properties like animation or foundations :)
13:28:16  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge commented on pull request #9689: Add: Specify minimum version for macOS
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13:42:11  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Oh, wow, that's a surprisingly tiny limit
13:42:22  <FLHerne> Thanks
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13:43:15  <andythenorth> I would guess it's trivially increasable these days, but eh
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13:43:27  <andythenorth> the convention of checking the layout works fine
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14:42:49  <FLHerne> blah
14:43:01  <FLHerne> usual cycle, I try to poke OpenTTD and my IDE crashes
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14:43:16  <FLHerne> so now I have to recompile KDevelop and find out what that's about
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14:50:18  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] wg25 opened issue #9690: [Bug]: Linking Error on Raspbian OS Buster with OpenTTD 12.1
14:54:42  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #9690: [Bug]: Linking Error on Raspbian OS Buster with OpenTTD 12.1
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15:24:33  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] wg25 commented on issue #9690: [Bug]: Linking Error on Raspbian OS Buster with OpenTTD 12.1
15:24:36  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] wg25 closed issue #9690: [Bug]: Linking Error on Raspbian OS Buster with OpenTTD 12.1
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16:27:58  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge commented on pull request #9689: Add: Specify minimum version for macOS
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17:20:13  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #9689: Add: Specify minimum version for macOS
17:44:21  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9689: Add: Specify minimum version for macOS
17:44:41  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #9689: Add: Specify minimum version for macOS
17:48:24  <TrueBrain> I was under the impression setting a framework of 10.14 would imply such things already.. lol
17:48:54  <TrueBrain> We should have tested it.. fail on us :D
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18:11:42  <frosch123> i ran out of onions, and tried to substitute with garlic. way too much garlic ... :p
18:13:41  <TrueBrain> Thanks for sharing. Please keep 1.5 meters distance .. and not for covid :p
18:14:47  <frosch123> still better than osx compatibility :p
18:30:56  <peter1138> Don't wanna get run over
18:35:43  <TrueBrain> Don't step in front of a car
18:48:33  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
18:48:34  <DorpsGek>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
19:06:35  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc closed issue #9680: [Crash]: Loading TTD save causes a crash
19:06:38  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #9689: Add: Specify minimum version for macOS
19:07:14  <michi_cc> Huh, was #9680 really supposed to link to this PR?
19:07:28  <TrueBrain> Doubtful
19:07:45  <frosch123> #9688
19:07:50  <frosch123> swapped an 8 for a 0
19:07:53  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on issue #9680: [Crash]: Loading TTD save causes a crash
19:07:56  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc reopened issue #9680: [Crash]: Loading TTD save causes a crash
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19:57:24  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #9688: [Crash]: Crash on startup / 12.1 / MacOs
19:57:27  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #9688: [Crash]: Crash on startup / 12.1 / MacOs
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20:59:21  * andythenorth is now officially a low-code expert
20:59:35  <Xaroth> My condolences.
21:01:48  <andythenorth> I have made my peace with it
21:01:59  <andythenorth> but I have nearly used up all of my  monthly subscription
21:02:13  <andythenorth> 10,000 ops / month
21:02:28  <andythenorth> but I've been testing fetching hundreds of records from a json API :P
21:02:32  <andythenorth> and then reading them in a loop
21:02:43  <andythenorth> 'oops'
21:05:57  <andythenorth> hmm wonder if I can POST to a webhook
21:06:02  <andythenorth> with a file attachment
21:06:07  * andythenorth never tried stuff like this
21:08:12  <andythenorth> ok so POST is convention, that's how the payload is done :P
21:08:28  <andythenorth> what about sending file enclosures, not just json? :P
21:08:42  * andythenorth trying to automate Horse publishing without learning S3 client
21:09:07  <frosch123> still lowcode? or are you already back to python?
21:10:02  <andythenorth> well
21:10:17  <andythenorth> I'd have to shell out to curl from a python script to hit the webhook
21:10:28  <andythenorth> or the makefile might be able to do that
21:10:39  <andythenorth> but lowcode otherwise
21:10:55  <andythenorth> the platform has an S3 'compare if file exists' which saves me learning how to do that
21:11:03  <frosch123> can you run a server that provides a python api?
21:11:10  <frosch123> send python code via json, get output?
21:11:52  <andythenorth> 'what could go wrong'
21:12:07  <andythenorth> I have actually run a server that does that, although not for the right reasons
21:12:26  <andythenorth> <texarea id="foo"> -> post -> eval(
21:12:38  <andythenorth> sadly we had to close that one
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21:12:57  <andythenorth> it's seen as not best practice, for some reason
21:38:31  <andythenorth> oh curl -F :P
21:38:34  <andythenorth> such simples
21:39:13  <andythenorth> oh the low-code has zip/unzip
21:39:14  <andythenorth> hmm
21:39:40  <andythenorth> or I could just use the S3 browser client and drag the docs over :P
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