Log for #openttd on 19th December 2021:
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10:29:09  *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
10:35:02  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #9725: Template DoCommand and friends
10:37:07  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
10:44:09  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #9725: Template DoCommand and friends
10:46:31  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #9725: Template DoCommand and friends
10:49:58  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #9725: Template DoCommand and friends
10:52:21  <TrueBrain> I see it is time to hit that Unsubscribe button :P
11:00:37  <michi_cc> Hmm, could the command packet use TCP_MTU_MTU instead of COMPAT_MTU for maximum size, or is there some other limitation?
11:01:33  <TrueBrain> as long as both sides agree on the MTU, there is no issue
11:01:42  <nielsm> does it even matter? set TCP_NODELAY on the socket and just assume the internet handles things right
11:01:54  <TrueBrain> for the admin protocol this was a bit iffy, as that basically means you need to tell all current clients to expect larger packets :)
11:02:12  <TrueBrain> nielsm: the name is picked poorly, it is "max size per packet"
11:02:20  <TrueBrain> it has nothing to do anymore with actual MTU
11:02:52  <nielsm> any reason it can't be MAXINT ?
11:02:59  <TrueBrain> memory
11:03:11  <TrueBrain> well, no, that is a lie
11:03:15  <TrueBrain> Rb wrote a nice story about the current limit
11:03:18  <nielsm> we support machines with 4 MB RAM?
11:03:19  <TrueBrain> and how to increase is further
11:03:33  <TrueBrain> don't be childish nielsm ;)
11:03:36  <TrueBrain> trying to help here :)
11:04:23  <TrueBrain>
11:04:38  <nielsm> okay I can see a reason to have a kind of limit, since a malicious client could potentially cause DoS stuff by sending big packets, or indicating it intends to send a large packet and not following up
11:05:24  <TrueBrain> basically, we encode the length in each packet so it can be validated, and that currently is limited in size. Rb suggests an auto-grow mechanism, but we have no reason yet to make that change.
11:06:35  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #9725: Template DoCommand and friends
11:07:20  <TrueBrain> anyway, admin clients might assume the old ~1500 per packet limit, and as such, they are still on COMPAT_MTU. If anyone is brave enough to change that, technically nothing is holding you back :)
11:08:28  <nielsm> I still haven't seen a document that properly explained what the admin port exactly is capable of or does, I just know that it's possible to send/receive some very specific commands to it to interact with a GS
11:08:42  <nielsm> but does it relay any other commands? does it accept any other commands? arbitrary commands?
11:10:32  <TrueBrain> I know nothing about the admin protocol itself, so I cannot help you there :(
11:10:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i think it was originally designed to replace hacky server control mechanisms that hooked into the dedicated server console, which had ... limits
11:11:40  <michi_cc> Okay, even with COMPAT_MTU, there's still up to 1445 bytes of command data possible.
11:12:07  <nielsm>
11:12:23  <nielsm> it talks about various packet names, but never about what the actual format of the packets is
11:12:40  <nielsm> I think that _might_ be documented on the wiki, somewhere hidden away, and otherwise only in the source code
11:14:22  <nielsm> it also doesn't document anything about any maximum message length
11:17:18  <michi_cc> Hmm, this document might be read that we should have incremented NETWORK_GAME_ADMIN_VERSION to indicate the changed command packet format.
11:17:44  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #9725: Template DoCommand and friends
11:20:46  <TrueBrain> michi_cc: that is the easiest way to tell others something has changed for sure
11:21:01  <TrueBrain> but, from 12.0 experience .. people tend to just ignore that field and still complain :P
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11:49:33  <dP> TrueBrain, wdym ignore? admin_version was never incremented
11:57:31  <andythenorth> did we increase cargo limit to 128 yet? :P
12:03:23  <peter1138> !kick andythenorth
12:04:55  <andythenorth> I only have 45 coded so far in this FIRS version
12:05:03  <andythenorth> but how many kinds of cheese are there?
12:08:52  <andythenorth> do you have any cheddar?
12:09:09  <TrueBrain> you really want to hurt your players, don't you? :)
12:09:25  <andythenorth> why are they mine now? :P
12:10:21  <andythenorth> this christmas, I'll give them to someone special
12:28:52  <Eddi|zuHause> why 128? go big or go home :p
12:29:29  <Eddi|zuHause> all that this is doing is you coming next year asking for 256 :p
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12:48:07  <NGC3982> i love cheese more than i love my wife
12:54:13  <TrueBrain> just imagine having to run a network of 128 cargoes ....
12:54:21  <TrueBrain> I don't ..... that ..... yeah :P
12:54:28  <TrueBrain> but I had similar with 64 cargoes, so yeah
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13:10:56  <andythenorth> ok so Eddi|zuHause is recommending 256
13:11:00  <andythenorth> works for me
13:11:36  <Eddi|zuHause> no. i was more aiming for 64k or something :p
13:11:43  <dP> 640
13:11:45  <dP> ought to be enough for anybody
13:13:19  <NGC3982> lololo
13:13:24  <andythenorth> where do we stand on the 'no war' theme today?
13:13:54  * andythenorth added explosives factory, but named 'civil explosives facility'
13:13:58  <andythenorth> IRL it's munitions
13:15:54  <frosch123> compensate it with a SJW academy
13:21:05  <nielsm> demolition technology laboratory
13:38:11  *** glx has joined #openttd
13:38:11  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx
13:56:22  <glx> <+michi_cc>    Hmm, this document might be read that we should have incremented NETWORK_GAME_ADMIN_VERSION to indicate the changed command packet format. <-- not really, at the end of the document, for ADMIN_SERVER_CMD_*, it's said "Data provided with these packets is not stable and will not be
13:56:22  <glx> treated as such."
13:56:36  <glx> admin protocol itself is unchanged AFAICT
13:57:24  <michi_cc> While the contents of the command packet was not stable, the format and size was until now. As such I think bumping it is the right thing to do.
13:58:54  <glx> "Future improvements might also add additional data to packets. This data should be ignored. Data will never be removed from packets in later versions, except the possibility that complete packets are dropped in favour of a new packet."
13:59:13  <glx> maybe we should also change the packet number
14:08:25  <frosch123> are there other packets affected as well? bumping the version would allow changing other packets as well, like the command-list one
14:09:11  <glx> ADMIN_PACKET_SERVER_CMD_LOGGING is the only affected packet (comp

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