Log for #openttd on 28th December 2021:
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11:40:49  <michi_cc> TrueBrain: Get one of those 21:9 displays and turn that vertical :)
11:41:06  <TrueBrain> tempted
11:41:36  <LordAro> TrueBrain: powertoys makes vertical monitors bareable in terms of window positioning
11:42:01  <TrueBrain> I am being told Win11 also solves these things more or less
11:42:15  <LordAro> so i'm told
11:42:26  <LordAro> don't think win11 is ready for general use yet though :p
11:42:37  <TrueBrain> one drawback I notice with my current display, that vertical the colours drop off real quick on the sides
11:42:45  <TrueBrain> euh, horizontal
11:42:51  <LordAro> how odd
11:42:58  <TrueBrain> well, it is the type of screen
11:43:04  <TrueBrain> but because you look at it from an angle
11:43:12  <TrueBrain> it shows more than when the screen is horizontal
11:45:01  <TrueBrain> (it is a TN panel, and that shows)
11:46:59  <LordAro> mm
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12:00:12  <andythenorth> now TrueGRF has a changelog!
12:00:15  <andythenorth> proper project
12:03:16  <TrueBrain> it even detects when you last visited, and only shows the part that is actually new to you :P
12:06:57  <andythenorth> when you get your first compliance warning, I'll help you write a cookies statement :P
12:07:08  <TrueBrain> I do not use cookies :)
12:07:15  <andythenorth> no cookie for you
12:07:18  <TrueBrain> and all storage is client-side!
12:07:40  <frosch123> wow, from 0.2.0 to 0.3.0 in 6 minutes. you can get it done by today :)
12:07:58  <andythenorth> it's the 0.8.0 -> 1.0.0 that takes half the work
12:09:33  <TrueBrain> well, I wanted to call the latest 0.9 already tbh
12:09:49  <TrueBrain> there are some details to work out, but it should be possible to make a half-decent NewGRF with this already
12:10:04  <frosch123> "width" and "height" is weird for layouts
12:10:12  <TrueBrain> Suggestions?
12:10:15  <andythenorth> dimensions?
12:10:28  <frosch123> are there unicode arrows?
12:10:43  <TrueBrain> Width / depth was the alternative I had in mind .. Still sucks :p
12:11:01  <TrueBrain> X/y is also weirr
12:11:37  <frosch123> X extend (⤢), Y extend (⤡)
12:11:46  <TrueBrain> that works for me
12:21:36  <TrueBrain> anything else that spots your eye? :D
12:23:12  <frosch123> probably low prio, but i think cargos would benefit from a tabular view listing all cargos at once, and properties you would want to adjust in correlation to other cargos, like colour, payment, ...
12:24:39  <TrueBrain> tabular, or grid-based?
12:24:49  <frosch123> what's the difference?
12:25:18  <TrueBrain> owh, I translated tabular with tabs
12:25:43  <frosch123> ok, "table view" :)
12:26:29  <andythenorth>
12:27:12  <frosch123> yes, something like that
12:28:21  <TrueBrain> will need some experimenting
12:30:07  <andythenorth> sometimes I wish I'd paid attention to chemistry
12:30:27  <andythenorth> of all the subjects, it sparked low interest
12:30:37  <andythenorth> seemed to just be lots of counting
12:31:01  <frosch123>
12:31:35  <andythenorth> ha
12:32:11  <andythenorth> all my physics teachers were quite elitist about physics being best
12:32:29  <andythenorth> 'biology is counting and classifying, chemistry is counting and cooking'
12:38:45  <LordAro> etc
12:38:47  <TrueBrain> so in FIRS4 ... "glass" is 625kg per ton
12:38:51  <TrueBrain> how does that work exactly? :)
12:39:22  <frosch123> 37.5% break during loading
12:39:51  <NGC3982> "it's transparent so 1kg of glass only weighs 625 grams duh"
12:43:04  * andythenorth wonders what it was copy-pasted from
12:44:24  <frosch123> maybe it was "panes of glass" instead of "tons of glass" at some point?
12:44:40  <frosch123> it's piece goods afterall
12:45:00  <andythenorth> it's copied from packaging
12:45:08  <andythenorth> which has 0.65 for [I don't know why]
12:45:13  <frosch123> "piece goods" in "tons" is weird :)
12:45:15  <andythenorth> see also ENSP and FMSP
12:45:32  <andythenorth> there's no good representation for volumetric piece cargos currently
12:45:47  <andythenorth> the capacity multiplier is just confusing
12:46:51  <andythenorth> at least ENSP and FMSP use 'crates'
12:47:28  <michi_cc> The cargo weight somewhat doubles as a volume factor, i.e. to modify loaded vehicle weight by some arbitrary volume factor (for realistic acceleration and slope steepness).
12:49:50  * andythenorth fixes glass
12:49:53  <frosch123> that's the capacity multilpier, not the weight
12:50:09  <andythenorth> 'vehicles' is the one that seems to annoy players / authors most
12:50:11  <TrueBrain> I helped making FIRS more realistic \o/ :D
12:50:18  <andythenorth> I switched vehicles back to tons = tons
12:50:22  <frosch123> TrueBrain: you made it worse? :p
12:50:23  <andythenorth> because of complaints
12:50:35  <andythenorth> then I got complaints that vehicles should be in units of 'vehicles'
12:50:36  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I leave that to others .. I just said: more realistic :P
12:54:43  <frosch123> i was hoping for some license amendment to truegrf: you are not allowed to create realistic grfs
13:04:00  <TrueBrain> punishable by ban? :)
13:04:50  <TrueBrain> so many small bugs in the UI framework I use
13:04:51  <TrueBrain> hmm
13:04:55  <TrueBrain> I wonder what I am going to do with that ..
13:05:34  <TrueBrain> let's first make a list of things I still need to address, before I delve into that :)
13:07:20  <TrueBrain> how important is capacity multiplier? :P
13:08:15  <TrueBrain> still find it weird only 0x100, 0x200 and 0x400 are used :P
13:09:46  <andythenorth> does it even do anything?
13:14:44  <TrueBrain> right, what more is important to make at least a half-decent industry GRF .. hmm
13:15:22  <TrueBrain> probability etc .. didn't do anything with that yet :)
13:18:40  <andythenorth> when is automatic publishing to bananas? :P
13:19:23  <TrueBrain> hmm .. industry foundation support
13:19:29  <TrueBrain> how hard will that be, and how needed will that be
13:19:31  <TrueBrain> slopes etc
13:20:15  <andythenorth> well there are only a limited number of slopes :P
13:20:25  <andythenorth> and the game will draw foundations for certain cases
13:21:32  <TrueBrain> so don't support it, you say :P
13:28:48  <TrueBrain> <- think that is all that is really needed to make something sane
13:29:12  <TrueBrain> <- is needed to become more on-par with the features FIRS4 currently has
13:29:43  <TrueBrain> if I am missing anything, please do yell :)
13:32:48  <TrueBrain> owh, "fences" .. still no clue what that really is :D
13:51:10  <andythenorth> fences are a specific FIRS thing
13:51:11  <andythenorth> don't do it
13:51:26  <TrueBrain> I love hearing that, as I am really good in doing that
13:51:53  <frosch123> didn't ogfx+ invent them?
13:52:07  <frosch123> ogfx+industries, ogfx+landscape objects
13:53:27  <andythenorth> I think they were added to FIRS by yexo
13:53:33  <andythenorth> in nfo FIRS
13:53:37  <andythenorth> but eh
13:53:40  * andythenorth bbl
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14:48:40  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kaomoneus commented on discussion #8397: Daylength
15:21:41  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on discussion #8397: Daylength
15:23:07  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on discussion #8397: Daylength
15:31:19  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] matthijskooijman opened pull request #9772: Fix missing icon and wrap long line
15:33:20  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #9772: Fix missing icon and wrap long line
15:40:07  * andythenorth watches the slow pace video
15:40:32  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #9772: Fix missing icon and wrap long line
15:41:15  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] matthijskooijman commented on pull request #9772: Fix missing icon and wrap long line
15:43:07  <_dp_> build a line, come back next day for the profits, great gameplay :p
15:44:46  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] matthijskooijman commented on pull request #9772: Fix missing icon and wrap long line
15:45:19  <supermop_Home> can I have a param that random per game?
15:45:37  <frosch123> you can read the gameseed
15:45:48  <supermop_Home> like everytime you start a new game the bus stops are a different syle?
15:46:20  <supermop_Home> frosch123 is that something I do in a regular switch or up top in a parameter?
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15:48:11  <frosch123> hmm, i can't find it... maybe it was only discussed and not implemented
15:49:40  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] matthijskooijman updated pull request #9772: Fix missing icon
15:50:51  <supermop_Home> if I cant yet have multiple styles of roadstop, it might be fun at least to give a random one
15:52:23  <frosch123> you can use the climate or the map size :)
15:53:57  <frosch123> or the start-year
15:55:13  <nielsm> can you read the town zone?
15:57:30  <supermop_Home> for a bus stop?
15:57:48  <supermop_Home> i don't think so? surely someone else would have tried that already
15:58:30  <andythenorth> so
15:58:44  <andythenorth> naphtha -> integrated chemicals plant -> polymers
15:59:04  <andythenorth> or naphtha -> steam cracker -> olefins -> polymer plant -> polymers
15:59:23  <andythenorth> or naphtha -> monomer plant -> monomers -> polymer plant -> polymers
15:59:24  <frosch123> nielsm: bus stop is a single global sprite. you have to decide it on game start
16:02:19  <nielsm> ah
16:03:30  <supermop_Home> so i have a couple variants of the sprite. user could select by parameter, but i think it would be more fun in the game picked for you
16:05:14  <supermop_Home> picking by start year makes sense, but i almost always start in the same year so i'd always see the same one
16:06:26  <_dp_> hash all the settings xD
16:07:08  <frosch123> supermop_Home: in single-player you can also use the year the savegame was loaded :)
16:07:08  <supermop_Home> seems weird that i can read all these settings but not the seed
16:07:20  <frosch123> so it changes on every save-load cyclwe
16:07:43  <frosch123> yeah, no idea where the seed thingie got lost, i assumed it was already done :)
16:08:02  <supermop_Home> would be interesting to make a different subset of vehicles available each time you play
16:08:28  <supermop_Home> so you don't know that a better locomotive is coming in just a few years
16:09:22  <supermop_Home> I've actually never made a grf that replaces base sprites
16:09:33  <supermop_Home> lets see if i can figure it out
16:10:05  <_dp_> that's better done with gs, as with newgrfs clients can figure that out anyway
16:18:22  <andythenorth> oh can stations read town persistent storage?
16:18:26  <andythenorth> spec suggests they can
16:18:48  * andythenorth thought there was some reason they couldn't :P
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16:44:08  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] matthijskooijman commented on pull request #9772: Fix missing icon
16:47:53  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #9772: Fix missing icon
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18:15:45  <supermop_Home> well in the past year i seem to have forgotten how to use my dos prompts
18:16:17  <supermop_Home> all my years of playing command and conquer and SimCity 2000 have finally left my brain
18:16:30  <TrueBrain> gratz :D
18:16:57  <supermop_Home> its just cd\ then the directory path right?
18:19:34  <supermop_Home> oh i was putting an extra space ooops
18:23:34  <glx> oh I think I have a workaround for the CI failure
18:24:08  <glx> and no it's not removing mingw :)
18:24:17  <TrueBrain> awh :(
18:24:56  <glx> it seems to be related to ASLR being enabled by default now
18:25:28  <glx> and for some reason I don't really know, it fails to link our debug builds
18:30:07  <supermop_Home> unexpected end of file? i don't really have anything else for it to do
18:48:58  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
18:48:59  <DorpsGek>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:53:56  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #9773: Fix: [MinGW] Disable ASLR for x64 Debug builds
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19:38:59  <supermop_Home> so i have my sprite replacement blocks in a big if/else where it has if (traffic_side == TRAFFIC_SIDE_RIGHT) {
19:39:07  <supermop_Home> the right sided bus stops,
19:39:19  <supermop_Home> then else the left sided ones
19:39:38  <supermop_Home> but it just uses the left side ones all the time
19:40:13  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #9773: Fix: [MinGW] Disable ASLR for x64 Debug builds
19:40:16  <nielsm> not sure about OTTD, but in original TTD you can change the driving side until the first RV is built
19:40:37  <LordAro> glx: backport?
19:40:41  <nielsm> so it might be less defined during game load or something
19:41:04  <frosch123> supermop_Home: it may not update when changing the setting in-game, restart a new game or reload
19:41:26  <supermop_Home> also ogfxe_extra png only has sprites for drive on right stops
19:41:46  <supermop_Home> and none of the terminus bus stops..
19:42:02  <supermop_Home> how do i replace sprites that are in like infra 06
19:43:54  <frosch123> for the drive-in stops you need "replace", for the drive-through stops you need "replace_new"
19:44:08  <frosch123> "replacenew"
19:44:35  <frosch123> basically, "replace" is for TTD sprites, "replacenew" for everything new in TTDP/OTTTD
19:44:44  <supermop_Home> hmm
19:45:24  <supermop_Home> in infra 06.png, the drive in stop is made up of three side sprites, plus the pavement
19:45:36  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] Gisterecis opened issue #280: [ru_RU] Translator access request
19:46:16  <frosch123> supermop_Home:
19:47:30  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] frosch123 commented on issue #280: [ru_RU] Translator access request
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19:55:45  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] Gisterecis opened issue #281: [ro_RO] Translator access request
19:56:19  <supermop_Home> sprites 952-963 in infra06 seem to be component parts of drive in roadstops
19:57:10  <peter1138>         static int offsetY = 0;
19:58:20  <supermop_Home> also - ogfxe_extra.png only has drive on right bus stop sprites... how does the game switch sprites based on drive side?
19:58:23  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] frosch123 commented on issue #281: [ro_RO] Translator access request
19:59:24  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] frosch123 commented on issue #281: [ro_RO] Translator access request
19:59:50  <peter1138>         static int offsetY = 0;
20:04:52  <supermop_Home> huh
20:05:00  <supermop_Home> the game uses the same sprites
20:05:21  <supermop_Home> but then the bus stop sign is on the wrong end for drive on left
20:05:48  <supermop_Home> assuming the sign should be at the front of the bus
20:06:31  <supermop_Home> still... it seems like i should be able to switch my replacement sprites based on drive side?
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20:07:50  <frosch123> yes, you have to use the "if" as you wrote before
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20:08:13  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #9773: Fix: [MinGW] Disable ASLR for x64 Debug builds
20:08:28  <supermop_Home> unfortunately it seems to always return drive on left sprites
20:09:23  <supermop_Home>
20:11:11  <frosch123> did the pastebin remove the indentation?
20:12:06  <frosch123> the else in the middle applies to the style_param, not to the driving-side
20:12:21  <frosch123> if you indent the cases, it's easier to see where { and } match :)
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20:14:52  <supermop_Home> ah
20:14:56  <supermop_Home> ooops
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20:34:32  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] corpulentcoffee updated pull request #9771: Feature: Add/extend console commands to enable screenshot automation
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20:51:45  <andythenorth> oof the names of chemicals give me brainache
20:52:00  <andythenorth> Sodium dodecylbenzenesulfonate
20:52:33  <andythenorth> so that's something like a 12 ring something something with benzene and sodium?
20:52:55  * andythenorth just wants to know what cargos can go from chemical plant to detergent factory
20:53:19  <andythenorth> phosphoric acid, caustic soda, chlorine (assuming it makes bleaches also)
20:53:23  <andythenorth> then some kind of surfactant
20:53:30  <andythenorth> but surfactants are very confusing
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21:23:44  <supermop_Home> soap?
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21:32:30  <supermop_Home> whatever this is it doesn't work?
21:34:17  <frosch123> use the in-game sprite aligner to show any sprite
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21:34:26  <frosch123> you can enter the sprite number, and get the sprite
21:35:54  <supermop_Home> ok
21:36:06  <supermop_Home> i get "connection refused" at that link
21:36:29  <Gustavo6046> day night cycle when
21:36:29  <Gustavo6046> :p
21:36:39  <frosch123> it contains "" in the url
21:36:54  <frosch123> Gustavo6046: use nightgfx
21:37:34  <Gustavo6046> I do
21:37:35  <Gustavo6046> it's nice
21:38:02  <Gustavo6046> I wonder if NewGRFs work well with it
21:38:05  <Gustavo6046> play well
21:38:07  <Gustavo6046> what was the name again?
21:38:08  <Gustavo6046> word
21:49:41  <Gustavo6046> does OpenTTD use OpenAL?
21:50:05  <LordAro> no(t directly)
21:52:35  <Gustavo6046> ah
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