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Log for #openttd on 21st January 2022:
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00:09:08  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone commented on issue #9796: [Bug]: city name bug https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9796
00:14:55  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] elcosomalo1 opened issue #9797: [Bug]: Unbearable city ambient sounds https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9797
00:36:13  <wiscii> needs a sound manager ^
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12:42:28  <_dp_> is there some other docs on how real sprites are encoded in grf?
12:42:35  <_dp_> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/RealSprites doesn't seem to match it at all
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13:06:32  <FLHerne> _dp_: https://github.com/OpenTTD/grfcodec/blob/master/docs/grf.txt might be useful
13:08:18  <_dp_> yeah, thankss
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15:42:36  <supermop_work> yo
15:51:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on issue #9797: [Bug]: Unbearable city ambient sounds https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9797
16:19:05  <andythenorth> yo
16:25:29  <nielsm> docks make sounds?
16:27:11  <andythenorth> 'quack'
16:27:18  <andythenorth> "oh docks?"
16:27:29  <andythenorth> docks go quak
16:27:32  <andythenorth> or is that frogs?
16:31:33  <peter1138> Helmet camera, top or side?
16:31:49  <peter1138> Thinking top would be better for weight balance.
16:32:22  <andythenorth> get one eye surgically replaced?
16:32:27  <andythenorth> probably not a quick job
16:35:26  <LordAro> are the cameras heavy enough to be noticeable?
16:36:48  <peter1138> 145g
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16:39:29  <peter1138> Drift Ghost XL, went for the larger one as it's waterproof without an extra case.
16:39:40  <peter1138> Although it is not massive.
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17:06:22  <_dp_> "This property must be set after property 00 to take effect." <- Does that mean prop 00 also has to be defined?
17:06:23  <_dp_> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Vehicles/RoadVehicles
17:06:42  <_dp_> or just that prop 0 will override it if declared after
17:09:26  <frosch123> the second will overwrite the first one
17:09:42  <frosch123> basically: just ignore 00 and never set it
17:11:14  <frosch123> if in doubt, look at nml :p
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17:31:46  <peter1138> You would set 00 and conditionally set 1F if you wanted to waste effort making a file compatible with ancient versions.
17:33:26  <_dp_> luckily I'm only interested in decompiling ancient versions, not making them
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18:45:42  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/f6775a2d55ef6a645edddfca2b0820cb89d5d88b
18:45:43  <DorpsGek>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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18:52:41  <supermop_work> early 90s building: https://imgur.com/bj1HFgf
18:52:59  <supermop_work> its not a tube but it is rounded and weird
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19:18:00  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] predo2810 commented on issue #9796: [Bug]: city name bug https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9796
19:18:04  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] predo2810 closed issue #9796: [Bug]: city name bug https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9796
19:30:17  <TrueBrain> lol
19:31:05  <frosch123> do you want that risc-5 board?
19:31:51  <TrueBrain> say what now?
19:32:43  <frosch123> hmm, that mail went to my box, not to info@, so no idea who else got it
19:32:51  <TrueBrain> not me at least :P
19:33:36  <TrueBrain> but I have 3 Risc V boards at home ... still haven't tried it ... I miss free time :P
19:33:46  <frosch123> well, some chinese risc-v manufacturer's marketing team likes openttd, and want to provide a development board
19:33:57  <TrueBrain> lol
19:34:00  <TrueBrain> bit weird :P
19:34:08  <TrueBrain> want to try run OpenTTD on it? :D
19:34:34  <frosch123> yeah, it's weird, but the mail is too specifically crafted to be spam
19:35:50  <TrueBrain> it is a nice gesture for sure :)
19:36:15  <TrueBrain> I sitll have to find a simple breakout board for these ESP C3s .. but it is difficult .. tempted to make one myself ..
19:36:21  <TrueBrain> all breakout boards for them are HUGE
19:36:25  <TrueBrain> like 3 times the size of the chip
19:36:28  <TrueBrain> which is such a waste
20:00:57  <TrueBrain> did we ever test Sonarcloud on the OpenTTD codebase ....
20:01:28  <TrueBrain> let's make a test for it :D
20:02:35  <frosch123> rb ran coverty 10 years ago
20:04:34  <TrueBrain> recently he did too
20:04:38  <Rubidium> coverty? You mean coverity?
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20:05:12  <frosch123> possibly
20:08:31  <TrueBrain> "0 Lines of Code"
20:08:33  <TrueBrain> good job scanner
20:08:34  <TrueBrain> good job
20:08:35  <Rubidium> then the last time it ran was in may. Our code sadly gives quite a few false positives
20:10:07  <TrueBrain> and I find the results hard to understand .. interface is a bit .. 1990 :P
20:10:30  <andythenorth> do I have a Risc V?
20:10:33  <andythenorth> nope
20:11:08  <andythenorth> I tried Snyk recently for automated code vulns and deps
20:11:11  <andythenorth> wasn't convinced
20:11:56  <Rubidium> lgtm has a number of things we should look at as well, though the largest amount of cases are somewhat false-positive-ish as well
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20:13:06  <andythenorth> aware of any others? o_O
20:13:17  <andythenorth> this is a thing I am interested in
20:16:06  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] glx22 commented on issue #288: [it_IT] Translator access request https://github.com/OpenTTD/team/issues/288
20:17:04  <andythenorth> so I reviewed myself https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9795
20:17:07  <andythenorth> did I do good?
20:17:37  <glx> template is there for a reason ;)
20:18:04  <TrueBrain> always hard to see if someone is trolling or not if there are cabbages involved
20:19:24  <andythenorth> it's my standard reminder for 'not finished'
20:19:45  <andythenorth> I'll do the template, forget that
20:19:49  <andythenorth> forgot *
20:21:03  <TrueBrain> so on the front of rreviewing yourself, I have to rate you with an D
20:21:04  <TrueBrain> sorry :)
20:27:30  <andythenorth> thanks for your review of my review
20:27:43  <TrueBrain> you asked :)
20:27:47  <andythenorth> can I review your review of my review?
20:27:51  <TrueBrain> no
20:27:53  <TrueBrain> I didn't ask
20:27:53  <andythenorth> ok
20:27:55  <TrueBrain> so bugger off :P
20:27:56  <TrueBrain> :D :D
20:28:01  <TrueBrain> <3
20:28:08  <andythenorth> this GS stuff might be a big source of lol
20:28:35  <andythenorth> shame we didn't add the NewGRF part 5 years ago, instead of arguing about it every 2nd Saturday for all that time :D
20:28:37  <TrueBrain> have you read any of the NewGRF conversations I had the last few .. weeks? Pretty sure you have a high bar to top :P
20:28:38  <andythenorth> but eh
20:29:04  <andythenorth> so glad there's nobody in the channel currently saying 'but andythenorth GS must never know about NewGRF, on principle'
20:29:18  <andythenorth> I sense many adventures ahead
20:29:24  <andythenorth> mostly around performance and state
20:29:59  <glx> oh GS can know about newgrf, but you may need to update for every newgrf
20:30:00  <andythenorth> TrueBrain asking you to learn grf has been every bit as entertaining as we predicted :)
20:30:11  <TrueBrain> and then some, I am sure :P
20:30:26  <andythenorth> glx when TrueBrain does presets, it will all be fine, right? :)
20:30:30  <andythenorth> or we clone TrueBrain
20:30:34  <andythenorth> or someone else does presets
20:30:37  <TrueBrain> or you pay me :P
20:30:43  <TrueBrain> fundraiser?
20:30:45  <andythenorth> CrowdBrain
20:30:46  <TrueBrain> kickstarter?
20:30:47  <TrueBrain> patreon?
20:30:56  <andythenorth> we could just try selling NFTs
20:31:02  <glx> presets won't prevent "broken" newgrf version bumps
20:31:05  <TrueBrain> and hope it gives us the rights to Dune, right?
20:31:17  <TrueBrain> what a silly story that was ..
20:31:26  <andythenorth> glx Eddi did explain to me once how it's impossible to do dependencies into the future
20:31:29  <andythenorth> or something
20:31:36  <andythenorth> Eddi is usually correct
20:31:45  <glx> he's totally right
20:31:53  <TrueBrain> https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2022/01/17/nft-group-shamed-jodorowsky-dune-book-copyright for context, those who missed it
20:31:57  <andythenorth> GSTimeTravel
20:32:17  <andythenorth> that's the one they thought they bought the copyright?
20:32:38  <TrueBrain> yeah, although now claim they never did think that
20:32:39  <TrueBrain> lolz
20:32:43  <glx> but with bad newgrf authors you could have same grfid with incompatible content
20:32:48  <andythenorth> you could
20:32:59  <andythenorth> I am only going to use the content from the FIRS that generated the GS
20:33:08  <andythenorth> other people can make their own choices
20:33:25  <andythenorth> I am going to do some quite unfriendly version checking
20:33:26  <TrueBrain> NewGRF with embedded GS when?
20:33:30  <TrueBrain> GS with embedded NewGRF?
20:33:33  <andythenorth> well
20:33:37  <andythenorth> you said it was just presets
20:33:43  <andythenorth> I have a monorepo
20:33:45  <frosch123> GS to RST transpiler, when?
20:33:50  <frosch123> RPN
20:33:55  <frosch123> what is RST?
20:34:01  <andythenorth> python GS compiler to GS to RPN in Rust
20:34:01  <TrueBrain> NewGRF extension for loops, when?
20:34:12  <andythenorth> arbitrary loops?
20:34:13  <andythenorth> pls
20:34:18  <andythenorth> don't tease me :(
20:34:31  <TrueBrain> 23 minutes to analyze OpenTTD locally with sonarcloud .. now the cloud is looking at it
20:34:35  <andythenorth> such cloud
20:34:55  <glx> you really want to allow infinite loops in something coming from outside ?
20:35:04  <TrueBrain> 256k Lines of Code
20:35:13  <TrueBrain> we are not allowed to change OpenTTD anymore
20:35:14  <TrueBrain> this is the perfect LoC!
20:35:14  <andythenorth> well I have seen other platforms that have a max loop or max recursion depth
20:35:36  <TrueBrain> I like how glx is like: either no loops, or INFINITE!
20:35:37  <TrueBrain> :D
20:35:51  <glx> well infinite loops may happen
20:36:03  <TrueBrain> if only we had ways to prevent them :P
20:36:04  <TrueBrain> https://sonarcloud.io/project/overview?id=openttd-test
20:36:14  <TrueBrain> specially for Rubidium 's collection of SAST resulsts :)
20:36:47  <andythenorth> 23k code smells
20:36:50  <andythenorth> let's do some of my repos
20:36:52  <glx> "code smells" <-- that's a nice term
20:37:04  <andythenorth> new to you glx? :)
20:37:08  <andythenorth> does it have a french equivalent?
20:37:28  <andythenorth> do we have a Sonarcloud account, or do I have to create a burner to test FIRS? :P
20:38:45  * andythenorth creates a burner
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20:39:31  <frosch123> not sure whether they provide analysis of newgrf
20:39:34  <TrueBrain> "The left operand of '!=' is a garbage value"
20:39:35  <TrueBrain> haha
20:42:10  <TrueBrain> "Hard-coded credentials are security-sensitive." .... '			password_state = "AI";'
20:42:13  <TrueBrain> I get it, okay, but .. no :P
20:43:55  <TrueBrain> newgrf.cpp has highest technical depth :D
20:44:18  <glx> we could easily try CodeQL
20:44:20  <andythenorth> these are similar issues to the ones Snyk found on work stuff :P
20:44:41  <andythenorth> basically everywhere the creds were evaluated it went nuts
20:44:53  <andythenorth> including some stuff that was used to ban obvious default creds :P
20:44:58  <andythenorth> password="admin"
20:45:02  <andythenorth> or that kind of thing
20:45:14  <TrueBrain> CodeQL does the same for several OpenTTD's Python projects. Pretty normal .. just a one time "won't fix" action :)
20:45:31  <andythenorth> bet CodePilot doesn't have this problem!
20:45:53  * andythenorth wonders if CodePilot is basically inverse CodeQL
20:47:14  <andythenorth> :D https://sonarcloud.io/summary/overall?id=andythenorth_firs
20:48:30  <andythenorth> this looks quite interesting though
20:49:13  <andythenorth> oh I can Sonarcloud translation PRs
20:49:20  <andythenorth> currently I have to manually read them
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20:58:50  <Rubidium> glx: isn't codeql what fills lgtm.com?
21:00:08  <glx> I think it is
21:05:20  <Rubidium> looks like there are plenty false positives in SAST. Though happy there are no security vulnerabilities!
21:09:59  <_dp_> _settings_game.vehicle.dynamic_engines
21:10:07  <_dp_> is that like a fun way to break vehicle grfs?
21:11:35  <supermop_work> is this too much of a departure from the tube building: https://imgur.com/bj1HFgf
21:12:00  <supermop_work> https://imgur.com/a/e1Ts3Te
21:13:29  <frosch123> _dp_: it's a compatibility setting with ottd <= 0.6 or something
21:14:09  <frosch123> it's not supposed to be turned of for new games, but i guess there is nothing to enforce that :p
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21:19:08  <andythenorth_> supermop_Home this one? :P https://i.imgur.com/YAmq9TX.jpeg
21:19:59  <supermop_work> andythenorth:  thats the one thats my attempt at redoing the original sprite
21:20:51  <supermop_work> doesn't look very hawaiian, but its basically 1/4 of the BMW headquarters with some Richard Rodgers-y trusses tacked on
21:22:18  <supermop_work> first one is a kenzo tange, 2nd and last ones are buildings in honolulu
21:22:47  <supermop_work> ill scale these down and the paint over them in photosho[
21:22:48  <supermop_work> p
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21:30:43  <FLHerne> supermop_work: How about the last one of that, but without the bottom cylindrical section so the building is still hovering?
21:30:59  <FLHerne> (and an extra horizontal truss at base level)
21:31:24  <FLHerne> assume the lifts and stairs are in the rear block
21:33:36  <FLHerne> and the yellow trusses support the main tower
21:37:31  <wiscii> sorry for O.T. but does anybody here know the syntax for a comment in .json file ?
21:38:39  <frosch123> there is no such thing
21:39:09  <frosch123> it's a serialisation format, not a source file
21:39:18  <wiscii> well, that would explain why i can find it
21:39:39  <wiscii> the best option i found so far is '//' but iguess it then depends on what reads it
21:40:22  <FLHerne> If you have a // it's not JSON
21:40:45  <wiscii> sure, i understand your point
21:41:11  <wiscii> this is for firefox policies.json and firefox does not mind the // comment
21:41:23  <FLHerne> I've seen `comment: "here is some text"` but that's a bit silly
21:41:37  <supermop_work>    FLHerne there is no structural need for that ground floor, true
21:41:43  <FLHerne> and Firefox might mind that
21:41:52  <supermop_work> but that's some prime retail space to rent out!
21:42:38  <FLHerne> supermop_work: planning rules demand x area of public open space ;-)
21:42:48  <FLHerne> same reason the Gherkin tapers down at the base
21:43:19  <FLHerne> and we all know how petty and anti-development OTTD's local authorities are
21:43:32  <supermop_work> FLHerne: in new york that public space can be allowed to be indoors, atrium or winter garden
21:43:42  <supermop_work> if you get a variance
21:44:23  <FLHerne> Ok, but Fingfingbridge City Council doesn't allow such variances :p
21:46:05  <_dp_> is there a way to use generic (16bit) offset in action 4 with vehicles?
21:46:10  <FLHerne> unless you bribe them for £15,000,000
21:46:33  <FLHerne> but that comes with the Severe Consequences of a small chance that you won't be allowed to bribe them again for a while
21:46:35  <_dp_> there is a special case for that in the code but it just does the same as non-vehicle but without any range checks
21:46:38  <_dp_> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/newgrf.cpp#L6029
21:46:59  <_dp_> and I suppose there is no way to know vehicle index when writing grf?
21:48:59  <TrueBrain> wiscii: use JSONC / JSON-C / JSON5, and use // for comments .. like all sane people writing JSON manually :p
21:49:29  <TrueBrain> Most sane JSON implementation support that too ;)
21:49:34  <wiscii> TrueBrain: thanks :)
21:51:17  <frosch123> _dp_: haha, that's another standard trap
21:51:24  <frosch123> the action4 specs are very confusing there
21:51:35  <frosch123> 16bit has nothing to do with "generic strings"
21:51:46  <frosch123> you can use 16bit action4 just fine for vehicles
21:51:56  <frosch123> feature 48 is what defines global strings
21:52:16  <_dp_> frosch123, looking at the code to use 16bit I need to somehow know e->index
21:52:25  <wiscii> www.json.org does not list any format for comments, so i presume that when it was designed they thought "we don't need comments" .. and then reality bit them on the as^D^D
21:52:34  <frosch123> no, it's just your local vehicle id
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21:53:19  <_dp_> but if set it by local id it doesn't match to the vehicle
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21:53:53  <_dp_> non-generic looks up the engine by local id, but generic doesn't
21:54:09  <TrueBrain> wiscii: it was a deliberate choice by the creator, with good reasons. But.. we are stubborn people
21:54:30  <frosch123> _dp_: newgrf.cpp:6024 converts the grf-local-id to global id
21:54:55  <TrueBrain> https://json5.org/ solves many issues JSON has for humans
21:55:00  <_dp_> frosch123, yeah, but generic is in another branch
21:55:07  <frosch123> _dp_: oh wait, someone added extended byte there
21:55:22  <wiscii> TrueBrain: i can almost here the discussion now ;-) "we don't need comments because it speaks for itself" .. and then, "hey, how do i add a comment to explain this attribute pair?" .. dnag
21:55:24  <frosch123> ho, yet a different variant :p
21:55:38  <frosch123> ok, then do not set the generic-flag, and just use extended byte
21:55:48  <TrueBrain> wiscii: more: it is a serialisation format, comments only ask for abuse
21:55:52  <_dp_> frosch123, that much I figured
21:56:08  <_dp_> frosch123, I just don't understand why line 6029 exists xD
21:56:09  <frosch123> fine, so the generic strings are only callback results
21:56:10  <TrueBrain> But humans are like: no, I am going to write JSON myself
21:56:27  <frosch123> _dp_: text in purchase list, D4xx texts
21:56:41  <wiscii> TrueBrain: ok, i'll have to learn what serialisation means here (don't worry, I'm not in a rush ;-))
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21:58:47  <andythenorth> so for next trick....expose pathfinder to GS?
21:59:04  <frosch123> go away samu
21:59:07  <_dp_> frosch123, ah, so to define strings that can be used in a callback?
21:59:14  <frosch123> yes
22:00:17  <_dp_> can grf change some global strings with that? there doesn't seem to be any range checks xD
22:00:24  <andythenorth> I am curious if OpenTTD would handle pathfinding faster than GS :P
22:01:14  <frosch123> no, AddGRFStrings adds the strings specific to a newgrf, they do associate with the global strings
22:01:36  <frosch123> well, they do, but they are mapped into a different location
22:07:18  <andythenorth> hmm enough cargos? https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/337701432230805505/934207494719418438/unknown.png?width=772&height=1297
22:08:33  <glx> andythenorth: it would, but we intentionally refused to use internal pathfinder, has any internal command is "unlimited" and can have a huge impact on ticks length
22:08:51  <andythenorth> worth knowing
22:09:07  <andythenorth> well
22:09:22  <frosch123> andythenorth: it's obviously faster in in-game time, because ottd cannot suspend API calls, so ottd would jsut block until pathfinding is done :p
22:09:25  <andythenorth> I will explore the other pathfinders in GPL libs
22:09:34  <andythenorth> there seem to be a few
22:10:41  <andythenorth> maybe I will explore sleep first :P
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22:10:58  <andythenorth> I want to build a graph first, then pathfind the routes between it
22:11:04  <andythenorth> not sure how to do that :)
22:11:24  <andythenorth> but I do know how to sleep :P
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