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Log for #openttd on 12th June 2022:
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10:32:20  *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
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11:10:54  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8398: Change: Distribute left over cargo to stations according to the highest remainder https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8398
11:12:20  <Samu> well, I guess 8398 won't go anywhere
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11:19:12  <peter1138> I don't think you explained what problem you're solving -- just detail about your algorithm.
11:25:26  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8461: Feature: Permanent rivers https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8461
11:26:30  <Samu> the video explains something about alabama's paradox, i guess that's what I was trying to solve
11:26:51  <Samu> but there's no fair solution, so i suppose the pr won't go anywhere
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12:20:05  <Samu> failed to build, but the error seems it's not because me https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/runs/6849570474?check_suite_focus=true
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12:52:30  <glx> yeah I reran the job, seems fine now
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13:17:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8492: Fix: Don't allow towns to terraform certain floodable tiles https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8492
13:18:06  <Samu> testing 8492 is really... really difficult
13:19:08  <Samu> i feel it needs a test case
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13:33:04  <andythenorth_> Steel Steinbok?
13:33:34  <andythenorth_> what if they’re all “Iron xyz”?
13:33:40  <andythenorth_> Iron Ibex
13:33:45  <andythenorth_> Iron Pony
13:33:54  <andythenorth_> Iron Mustang
13:34:04  <andythenorth_> Iron Zebra
13:34:28  <andythenorth_> Iron Moose
13:35:54  <frosch123> that would make too much sense
13:35:59  <frosch123> people could recognise a meaning
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13:56:52  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: something feels wrong making a bock both "steel" and "stone"
13:57:06  <andythenorth> rock paper scissors
13:58:06  * andythenorth still exploring alpine animals
13:58:15  <andythenorth> not that 'Horse' is uniquely British, TBH
13:58:21  <andythenorth> Iron Marmot?
13:58:32  <Eddi|zuHause> Elephant
13:58:44  <andythenorth> I'd do Chaomis, but I can neither (a) pronounce it, (b) spell it reliably
13:58:53  <andythenorth> "Hannibal's Elephant"
14:02:41  <frosch123> some sets put steam/diesel/electric icons in the purchase list to tag engines
14:02:54  <frosch123> will you add animal icons to distinguish rosters?
14:03:10  <andythenorth> Zinc Lynx?
14:03:35  <andythenorth> frosch123 'maybe icons'
14:03:51  <andythenorth> Lead Llama
14:04:13  <frosch123> Gold Gazelle
14:04:21  <frosch123> Silver Steinbock
14:04:27  <frosch123> make them all alliterations?
14:04:32  <andythenorth> Granite Goat
14:04:32  <glx> it's chamois
14:04:54  <andythenorth> Copper Chamois
14:04:59  <andythenorth> Pewter Pony
14:05:08  <andythenorth> Magnesium Mustang
14:05:40  <andythenorth> this is a very serious issue, and I am glad we are taking it seriously :P
14:05:45  <Eddi|zuHause> Mustang is very north american
14:05:49  <andythenorth> yup
14:06:16  <frosch123> maybe never release an official set, instead add all engines to truegrf and let people compose their own set :p
14:06:16  <andythenorth> I have no idea why UK Horse is 'pony'
14:06:27  <andythenorth> oof
14:06:32  <frosch123> UK is known for foxes
14:06:37  <andythenorth> random animal name generator included
14:06:37  <frosch123> Ferrum Fox
14:06:41  <andythenorth> UK should be Badger
14:06:43  <andythenorth> Bronze Badger
14:06:50  <andythenorth> or just Badger Badger
14:07:03  <andythenorth> allegedly scandinavians are scared of Badgers
14:07:20  <Eddi|zuHause> Badger Badger Badger Badger Mushroom Mushroom
14:07:25  <andythenorth> yup
14:07:31  <frosch123> are they? i only heard stories about trolls in norway
14:07:34  <andythenorth> Metal Magpie
14:08:33  <frosch123> nah, bird names are reserved for aircraft sets
14:08:55  <frosch123> no birds or fish or whales for horse :)
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14:09:39  <andythenorth_> hotel wifi kicked me :P
14:10:00  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i think you should keep "iron" for all variations, for branding
14:10:57  <Eddi|zuHause> one part should stay the same, the other varying.
14:11:29  <Eddi|zuHause> Iron Mammoth for transsiberia
14:12:07  <Eddi|zuHause> Iron Camel for north africa
14:12:15  <Eddi|zuHause> or arabia
14:13:04  <andythenorth_> I quite like the alliteration of Iron Ibex
14:13:25  <andythenorth_> dunno if I prefer Iron Moose or Iron Mustang for North America
14:13:27  <andythenorth_> or Iron Bison
14:13:36  <andythenorth_> or Iron Buffalo
14:14:01  <andythenorth_> do I rename the current Iron Horse grf to Iron Pony?
14:14:07  <andythenorth_> Iron Badger :P
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14:16:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i would focus on domesticated animals that are typically associated with transport
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14:18:32  <andythenorth_> Badger Badger Badger https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2021/12/mainline-operator-confirmed-for-class-89-badger-locomotive.html
14:18:36  <andythenorth_> such an ugly locomotive
14:18:57  <andythenorth_> a lot of Horse train names are mythical creatures
14:24:26  <frosch123> uran unicorn?
14:26:19  <andythenorth_> nickel nyan cat
14:26:28  <andythenorth_> ferric frog :P
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14:34:57  <andythenorth_> totally unrelated
14:35:26  <andythenorth_> but vehicles seem to be able to travel on incompatible railtypes, as long as the lead vehicle can travel on them
14:35:42  <andythenorth_> not sure if that's just a badly implemented 'mixed gauge' railtype grf or not
14:35:58  <glx> lead or any powered vehicle in the consist I think
14:37:23  <andythenorth_> yeah I've reproed it with Horse railtypes
14:37:46  <andythenorth_> it's as glx said
14:38:18  <frosch123> the term "compatible" should be banned
14:38:27  <frosch123> use "powered" and "tolerated" instead
14:38:41  <andythenorth_> I think you wrote something like that in the wiki also
14:39:00  <andythenorth_> so if e.g. I wanted to ban double stack container wagons on elrails
14:39:10  <andythenorth_> that's not currently possible
14:39:22  * andythenorth_ needs to have other better ideas then
14:41:23  <Samu> town generation bugs... https://i.imgur.com/8OzBIwG.png
14:41:29  <Samu> tunnel to the sea
14:48:01  <andythenorth_> 'feature'
14:48:18  <Eddi|zuHause> well, it's technically possible, but the compatibility graph will look weird and cause confusing side effects
14:49:13  <andythenorth_> I suspect that it's best avoided
14:49:37  <Eddi|zuHause> basically, you need a separate railtype for double stack containers, which can go on regular rail but not elrail, but then you will get users that think you need to put down the double stack tracktype
14:49:53  <frosch123> if we had 64k railtypes, you could give each engine their own railtype, and define poweredness individually
14:49:59  <andythenorth_> railtypes can be hidden
14:50:00  <Eddi|zuHause> which means it would be easier to just enforce that intuitive rule
14:50:26  <andythenorth_> but even with the different railtype, vehicles can traverse other nominally incompatible types
14:50:34  <andythenorth_> e.g. narrow gauge can travel on RAIL
14:50:50  <Eddi|zuHause> if they do that you set them up wrong
14:50:51  <frosch123> no, they can't
14:51:08  <andythenorth_> yeah they can, it just needs one of the 'mixed' railtype grfs
14:51:21  <andythenorth_> usually it's not possible because you can't build ng and RAIL in the same depot
14:51:33  <andythenorth_> but with a 'mixed' depot you can build a mixed consist, then set it going
14:51:48  <andythenorth_> NG will traverse RAIL happily and vice versa, in a mixed consist
14:52:07  <andythenorth_> I was surprised to see it, but eh, grf things
14:52:44  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like the grf is doing more than it should do
14:53:06  <andythenorth_> I think it's an unintended consequence :)
14:53:28  <andythenorth_> but Iron Horse railtypes do it with high speed lines
14:53:42  <andythenorth_> a consist solely of RAIL vehicles cannot traverse high speed lines
14:54:08  <andythenorth_> but if the consist contains a single high speed vehicle anywhere, then it can
14:54:25  <Eddi|zuHause> care to make a bug report?
14:54:40  <andythenorth_> has to be a powered high speed vehicle
14:54:54  <andythenorth_> this is intended no?
14:55:05  <andythenorth_> otherwise wouldn't the pathfinder have too much to do?
14:55:26  <glx> yeah if powered it can go
14:55:39  <glx> like RAIL on ELRL
14:55:58  <andythenorth_> seems that preventing this would have other consequences
14:56:12  <Eddi|zuHause> well... that sounds like intended behaviour... if RAIL vehicles are "compatible" but not "powered" on high speed, then adding an engine with in-cab-signalling etc. it can go on highspeed rail
14:56:41  <glx> if you really want to prevent it you can use attach callback
14:56:50  <andythenorth_> that is a good point
14:57:01  * andythenorth_ BBL
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15:00:50  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8492: Fix: Don't allow towns to terraform certain floodable tiles https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8492#issuecomment-1153197475
15:14:28  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8514: Change: Allow to build dock on clearable watered object tiles https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8514
15:19:16  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8517: Codechange: Make void tiles flood edge tiles, instead of edge tiles flooding themselves https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8517
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15:56:42  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8609: Fix: Equalise the number of frames needed for road vehicles to traverse different radius curves https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8609
15:56:56  <Samu> there hasn't been a savegame conversion in 8 months
15:57:05  <Samu> bump*
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20222022-06-12T18:10:44  *** felix has quit IRC
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18:51:43  <andythenorth> well
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18:54:35  <LordAro> yes
18:55:41  <TrueBrain> interesting
18:58:23  <Samu> should I PR this https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/compare/master...SamuXarick:subtract-money-after-all-company-value-calculations
18:59:23  <Samu> I don't know if what I'm fixing is a valid issue, I can see it depends on who you ask
19:09:43  <andythenorth> _dp_ so in https://github.com/ldpl/iron-horse/blob/master/src/generate.py#L1501 - get_sprites is basically an adapter method?
19:11:24  <_dp_> I never learned design patterns so no idea what it's called
19:11:35  <_dp_> it's just a method of SpriteGenerator that grf-py calls to get actionss
19:11:42  <andythenorth> me neither but I picked up a couple of common python patterns over 20 years :P
19:11:43  <andythenorth> https://refactoring.guru/design-patterns/adapter/python/example
19:12:01  <andythenorth> I had a design patterns book once, never really read it
19:12:15  <_dp_> hm, no actions I guess, more like sprites... GRF has terrible terminology :p
19:13:38  <_dp_> idk, I wouldn't call it adapter since it's not a dedicated class, just a regular inheritance
19:13:56  <_dp_> just implementing necessary interface
19:14:46  <_dp_> can always to that with adapter too ofc
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19:52:35  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #9921: Fix: On company closure, only sell shares back after all company value calculations are done https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9921
19:52:49  <Samu> well, I no longer have to wonder
20:04:28  <Eddi|zuHause> "design patterns" isn't really anything you should learn, it's more a collection of things people have done to get around previous design flaws
20:07:52  <Eddi|zuHause> like "i've got this plug, and this socket, and they weren't designed for the same standard, how can i get them to fit?"
20:09:00  <frosch123> that's a facade
20:09:29  <frosch123> design patterns are vocabulary, one word instead of two long sentences
20:10:45  <_dp_> I kinda feel like in python most of those java-like patterns are either unnecessary or just bad
20:10:57  <_dp_> most of the useful stuff is already part of the language like decorators
20:11:48  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, most design patterns are "if you need this, you've already taken a wrong turn earlier"
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20:18:32  <frosch123> _dp_: yes, that is correct. there are lots of patterns for C, which are normal syntax in more modern languages
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20:20:55  <andythenorth> I found patterns convenient shorthand
20:20:59  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_design_pattern <- how many of them?
20:21:24  <frosch123> andythenorth: yes, just vocabulary to simplify talk between developers
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20:24:05  <andythenorth> hmm so remove nml from Horse? :P
20:24:12  <andythenorth> maybe not tonight :P
20:26:31  <frosch123> meh, i hate it when the same spam is received multiple times per day
20:26:42  <frosch123> can't they become more creative at least?
2022

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