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00:01:35 *** Tirili has quit IRC 00:08:51 *** m1cr0man has quit IRC 00:09:07 *** m1cr0man has joined #openttd 00:11:03 *** m1cr0man has joined #openttd 00:13:05 *** m1cr0man has joined #openttd 00:15:06 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 00:55:00 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 00:55:53 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 02:15:25 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 02:15:25 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 02:22:21 *** tokai has quit IRC 02:22:34 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 03:01:26 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 03:04:53 *** debdog has quit IRC 03:13:27 *** glx has quit IRC 06:10:50 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog 06:16:44 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 06:19:43 <TrueBrain> 50 tickets left for another cake! 06:25:07 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:39:53 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 06:41:34 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:48:38 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 07:18:20 <andythenorth> yo 07:18:27 <TrueBrain> hi 07:25:30 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 08:13:57 <andythenorth> do I need to test this one, or can we just inspect it? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9952 08:39:25 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 08:51:31 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 09:47:02 *** Samu has joined #openttd 09:47:29 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 09:49:33 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 10:38:27 *** lobstarooo has joined #openttd 10:40:22 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 10:42:43 *** wallabra has quit IRC 10:45:14 *** lobster has quit IRC 10:45:18 *** lobstarooo is now known as lobster 10:47:38 *** wallabra has joined #openttd 11:27:33 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 11:54:22 *** glx has joined #openttd 11:54:22 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 11:58:43 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 12:16:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #9952: Fix #9951: Scenario editor random industries button and persistent storage https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9952#pullrequestreview-1041119359 13:52:58 *** wallabra_ has joined #openttd 13:53:26 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd 13:56:08 *** wallabra has quit IRC 14:08:59 *** Smedles has quit IRC 14:09:32 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 14:31:51 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 14:46:21 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 15:06:25 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC 15:15:35 <andythenorth> well 15:19:06 <andythenorth> it's intended that railtypes 'compatible' is only determined for lead vehicle, yes? 15:35:43 <frosch123> lead of articulated vehicle? possible 15:35:47 <frosch123> front engine of train? no 15:39:27 <andythenorth> is compatibility ever resolved for wagons (unpowered vehicles)? 15:39:34 * andythenorth could just read src probably :P 15:40:13 <frosch123> compatibility should affect train attachment 15:40:20 <frosch123> poweredness should affect purchase list 15:40:40 <andythenorth> there is a one way compatibility in effect in the test case 15:40:57 <frosch123> compatibility is mostly useless, some theoretical concept noone would have invented, if forum people weren't like they are 15:41:04 <frosch123> poweredness is the important thing 15:41:10 <andythenorth> I read the thread :P 15:41:11 <andythenorth> all the pages 15:41:34 <andythenorth> I have created a 'high clearance' railtype 15:41:57 <andythenorth> for e.g. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/Cajon_Intermodal.jpg 15:42:06 <andythenorth> RAIL vehicles can traverse high clearance 15:42:07 <frosch123> how does it affect game play? 15:42:21 <andythenorth> high clearance vehicles are intended to not traverse RAIL 15:42:23 <frosch123> higher fences? 15:42:41 <glx> larger tunnels 15:42:46 <andythenorth> it's just an arbitrary gameplay constraint 15:42:50 <frosch123> i guess my unwritten blog recommends: leave role playing to the players, keep it out of newgrf 15:42:52 <andythenorth> to trade off against electrifying 15:43:12 <andythenorth> it's a choose-your-own-adventure type role play: take the red pill or the blue 15:43:33 <andythenorth> I am quite happy to abandon it, I am just curious what's supposed to happen 15:43:44 <andythenorth> the same issue arises with narrow gauge wagons on RAIL 15:43:59 <frosch123> well, treat it like a different type of power then 15:44:06 <frosch123> diesel engines will be able to run on it 15:44:11 <frosch123> normal electic won't 15:44:20 <frosch123> your special ones will 15:44:27 <andythenorth> that already works 15:44:35 <andythenorth> the issue is that high clearance trains traverse rail 15:44:40 <andythenorth> if they're not the leading vehicle in a consist 15:44:51 <andythenorth> compatibility is only determined for leading engine 15:44:55 <glx> to mix a DC+AC engines you use a diesel to shunt ? 15:45:30 <frosch123> that behavior is correct for poweredness: elecric engines may be pulled on normal track 15:45:36 <andythenorth> I wonder if I should update the wiki 15:45:51 <frosch123> i think something enforces compatibility to be a superset of poweredness 15:45:58 <andythenorth> we already have a 'dual gauge' grf out there that 'breaks' narrow gauge trains 15:47:55 <andythenorth> might be this? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/train_cmd.cpp#L174 15:49:05 <andythenorth> so only determined for engines 15:50:09 <andythenorth> so all compatible_railtypes does is prevent the train driving onto railtypes where it would be unpowered (and get stuck)? 15:50:48 <glx> I think it's assumed that if it can attach, it can run, but might be unpowered 15:51:15 <andythenorth> +1 15:51:58 <glx> works fine for electric vs diesel, different story for gauges 15:52:36 <frosch123> that function ORs compatiblity, shouldn't it AND? 15:53:10 <frosch123> ah, no, it only computed poweredness 15:54:01 <andythenorth> wiki should have a note, 'wagons are compatible with all railtypes' or similar? 15:54:30 <andythenorth> hmm 15:54:37 <andythenorth> no it's more complicated 15:55:26 <andythenorth> "wagons are compatible with *all* railtypes when travelling, but will only be shown in 'new vehicles' menu for depots matching their compatible track type" 15:56:30 <frosch123> compatible_railtypes is used about nowhere :p 15:56:45 <frosch123> maybe compatible_railtypes is mostly not implemented? 15:56:59 <andythenorth> I suspect it's used in depot buy list 15:57:01 <andythenorth> let's see 15:58:03 <andythenorth> hmm what is CheckCompatibleRail doing? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/train_cmd.cpp#L2855 15:58:26 <andythenorth> !v->IsFrontEngine() 15:58:38 <andythenorth> is this an optimisation? 15:59:01 <glx> it's to prevent running trains to enter in incompatible tracks 15:59:19 <glx> like a monorail/maglev junction 16:00:19 <glx> but allows RAIL engine to enter ELRL track 16:02:37 * andythenorth reading IsEngineBuildable 16:02:47 <andythenorth> wagons are also engines, but with power 0 yes/no? 16:04:40 <glx> yes, prop 0B is 0 for a wagon 16:05:25 <andythenorth> ok so compatible_railtypes is used for building / autoreplace 16:05:45 <andythenorth> and a few custom cases for ELRL to provide legacy support 16:06:06 <andythenorth> and in the pathfinders 16:06:40 <andythenorth> are the pathfinders why it can only be checked for lead engine? 16:06:45 <andythenorth> otherwise too slow? 16:07:12 <frosch123> you have to check it for the front engine, otherwise the train would fall apart 16:07:22 <frosch123> however, you could cache the AND result in the front-engine cache 16:07:26 <frosch123> and use that for testing 16:07:40 <frosch123> it's done for powerness, but not for compatibleness 16:08:24 <frosch123> i.e. it's correct that CheckCompatibleRail only checks for IsFrontEngine 16:08:42 <frosch123> but it's wrong that it checks using v->compatible_Railtypes, instead of something else 16:09:26 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 16:09:36 <frosch123> i guess you can fix it by changing ConsistChanged 16:10:37 <frosch123> compatible_railtypes should be the intersection of all individual compatibilitities, intersected with the union of all powernesses 16:10:56 <frosch123> that way the train only runs on track, which are compatible with all parts, and at least one engine is powered 16:19:18 * andythenorth looks 16:26:47 <glx> total_power calculation is too precise, maybe https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/ground_vehicle.cpp#L63 should not rely on actual power, but on potential power of the whole consist depending on possible railtypes and poweredness 16:30:25 *** Smedles has quit IRC 16:30:57 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 16:42:09 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:47:07 *** gelignite has quit IRC 17:00:07 <TrueBrain> @calc 0xc8 17:00:07 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 200 17:00:14 <TrueBrain> my DHCP server is broken, so there was no other way :P 17:01:15 <peter1138> Just google it 17:01:33 <TrueBrain> and tell them the secret numbers I am looking up? Sjees 17:55:48 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 18:01:38 <andythenorth> oops, fell asleep 18:01:45 <andythenorth> unscheduled nap 18:14:49 <andythenorth> hmm there might be a funny Horse edge case I should test 18:15:15 <andythenorth> there are driving cab cars which have a small amount of power so they can lead the train (track type is RAIL) 18:15:29 <andythenorth> then an ELRL loco is attached to rear end of train 18:15:42 <andythenorth> probably they will drive on non ELRL tracks currently, but really slowly 18:54:20 *** Flygon has quit IRC 19:57:33 <frosch123> andythenorth: https://github.com/frosch123/OpenTTD/commit/a3b171b823fd5c82be7b17b69ac37c0b4ccfc309 19:57:38 <frosch123> maybe that fixes it 19:57:48 <frosch123> if it does, someone needs to figure out PBS 19:58:08 <frosch123> PBS does some other magic with railtypes, when checking reservations 20:01:57 <andythenorth> I should test it 20:08:15 *** jpw has quit IRC 20:08:25 <frosch123> i only checked compilation, it may crash on start :) 20:08:45 <andythenorth> nah 20:08:50 <andythenorth> seems to work 20:08:57 <andythenorth> haven't thought of any interesting edge cases to test yet 20:09:11 <andythenorth> the trivial cases work as expected now 20:11:46 <andythenorth> the 'stopping' case remains present, when consist with AC engine + DC engine crosses from AC to DC or vice versa 20:11:58 <andythenorth> I saw the code for that is elsewhere though 20:12:25 <andythenorth> PR time? :P 20:12:48 <frosch123> what is the stopping case? 20:14:20 <andythenorth> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/337701432230805505/997766987860156446/unknown.png 20:14:34 <andythenorth> engine 1 is powered on A, engine 2 is powered on B 20:14:48 <andythenorth> briefly whilst crossing the gap, the consist becomes unpowered 20:14:49 <andythenorth> so stops 20:14:55 <andythenorth> the player can then restart it 20:15:09 <frosch123> haha, ok :) 20:15:10 <andythenorth> glx found the line 20:15:17 <frosch123> i guess if it has enough speed it could make it 20:15:20 <andythenorth> yes 20:15:33 <andythenorth> otherwise it will stop anyway 20:15:34 <frosch123> but in the end i don't know what to do if it stops for other reason 20:15:42 <glx> it's https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/ground_vehicle.cpp#L63 20:16:08 <andythenorth> if power is 0, won't it just come to a halt anyway? 20:16:17 <glx> no power so stopping, but with momentum it gets power again and can be restarted manually 20:16:22 <andythenorth> maybe stopping helps the player find it 20:16:34 <andythenorth> or something 20:16:56 <glx> stop is not instant except on signal or blocked 20:29:35 <andythenorth> hmm 20:29:48 <andythenorth> I could adjust power by railtype, and use the user bits :P 20:29:56 <andythenorth> to provide a small amount of coasting behaviour 20:30:18 <andythenorth> can I fit a game date into user bits? :P 20:30:42 <frosch123> sounds desyncy 20:31:01 <andythenorth> also power by railtype is surely cached? :P 20:31:25 <glx> power is cached on consist change 20:32:06 <frosch123> i guess ottd should supply some minimal recover power, if power is 0 otherwise 20:32:11 <frosch123> then we can disable the stopping 20:32:33 <frosch123> if the train has enough momentum, it will rush through 20:32:40 <frosch123> otherwise slowly crawl until it is repowered 20:32:56 <andythenorth> don't we do that on hills already? 20:33:05 <andythenorth> I read the code once, I remember some minimal hill speed 20:33:06 <frosch123> yes, something like that 20:38:16 <andythenorth> sounds good :) 20:40:13 *** lobstarooo has joined #openttd 20:46:50 *** lobster has quit IRC 20:46:53 *** lobstarooo is now known as lobster 20:49:14 *** nielsm has quit IRC 21:14:34 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:25:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 opened pull request #9953: Fix: Trains only considered railtype-poweredness, and mostly ignored railtype-compatibility. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9953 21:27:37 <andythenorth> lol passengers 21:27:39 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:28:37 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I expect images of that 21:28:53 <TrueBrain> 1hp .. that are a lot of pax ;) 21:29:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #9953: Fix: Trains only considered railtype-poweredness, and mostly ignored railtype-compatibility. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9953#issuecomment-1186610518 21:33:06 <frosch123> TrueBrain: https://www.evolvingdoor.ca/images/manpushingtrain.jpg 21:33:18 <frosch123> not sure whether there are train versions of "car stuck girls" 21:33:19 <TrueBrain> "Ladies and gentlemen, as you might have noticed we came to a complete stop as our manager is incompetent. Please get out and start pushing" 21:34:30 <andythenorth> there is probably a thomas the tank engine episode for it 21:34:36 <glx> luckily it should not require too much power to move steel wheel on steel 21:35:06 <frosch123> andythenorth: btw. of course i did not check, whether the vehicle actually moves with 1hp 21:35:13 <frosch123> i just assume that the uphill-min thing kicks in 21:35:43 <frosch123> though that may only exist for realistic acceleration 21:35:51 <frosch123> no idea how original acceleration does it 21:36:05 <andythenorth> I'll test it 21:42:42 <andythenorth> can't find a trigger for it 21:42:59 <andythenorth> other than by changing grfs 21:43:11 <andythenorth> the transition across 2 railtypes now works fine, no stopping 21:43:53 <frosch123> can you manual stop it and restart it? 21:48:56 <andythenorth> oh manual stopping takes very long time :) 21:50:12 <andythenorth> it basically works fine 21:50:20 <andythenorth> if I had Twitch I could stream it :P 21:51:42 <andythenorth> the braking / deceleration rate seems off 21:51:53 <frosch123> ah, "stream"... do we have any plans for 20-years-of-newgrf next month? 21:52:06 <andythenorth> I do not :P 21:52:10 <andythenorth> but streams are fun 21:52:12 <frosch123> me neither :) 21:52:20 <andythenorth> there are some very early grfs to see 21:52:25 <andythenorth> was NewShips the first? 21:52:44 <frosch123> maybe, but probably noone has the first version of it 21:52:58 <frosch123> also, noone likes mb :p 21:54:54 * andythenorth doing forum archeology now https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=23386&hilit=oil+power+plant+grf+newgrf+power+plant 21:56:46 <andythenorth> good thread 21:57:22 <frosch123> that's a "we do not want newgrf thread" :) 21:57:29 <andythenorth> "meh I have no interest of discussing things with you Dalestan, I find your tone offensive and your reasoning annoying." 21:57:47 <frosch123> but it never hurts to highlight TrueBrain and glx with "GPMI" :) 21:58:10 <glx> no, that didn't exist 22:01:56 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:02:11 <andythenorth> first forum mention of newgrf seems to be https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=310947&hilit=newgrf#p310947 22:02:16 <andythenorth> eh also, bedtime :P 22:02:42 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:32:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #9953: Fix: Trains only considered railtype-poweredness, and mostly ignored railtype-compatibility. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9953#issuecomment-1186619598 23:01:15 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 23:31:03 *** wallabra_ is now known as wallabra 23:39:15 *** wallabra is now known as wallabra_ 23:39:54 *** wallabra_ is now known as wallabra 23:41:12 *** wallabra is now known as wallabra_ 23:43:42 *** wallabra_ is now known as wallabra