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00:04:58 <petern> Me messing with vector initialization is, apparently. 00:05:03 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 00:45:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on issue #10077: [Bug]: Incorrect loan limit amount - other than what the player selected https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10077 01:00:33 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 01:31:45 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 01:35:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on pull request #10220: Feature: Engine variant groups https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10220#issuecomment-1341849449 01:43:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on pull request #10215: Feature: Expand all towns in the scenario editor https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10215#issuecomment-1341854503 02:42:29 *** Tirili has quit IRC 02:54:05 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 02:57:27 *** _aD has quit IRC 03:37:45 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 03:53:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac updated pull request #10215: Feature: Expand all towns in the scenario editor https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10215 03:59:07 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 04:02:30 *** debdog has quit IRC 04:08:26 <Pruple> so here's a thought 04:08:42 <Pruple> where a tile is road + tram 04:09:17 <Pruple> should the speed limit for any vehicle be the lowest of the roadtype and tramtype? 04:09:58 <Pruple> eg, should a tram on a 48 km/h road be limited to 48 km/h? 06:33:42 <kamnet> That would seem to make sense to me. Is there anyplace where a tram on a road is permitted to drive faster than the road traffic? 07:11:28 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 07:41:41 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 07:43:46 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 07:44:41 *** ufo-piloot has quit IRC 07:44:52 *** ufo-piloot has joined #openttd 07:56:22 *** Yozora has joined #openttd 07:56:22 <Yozora> kamnet: Pedestrian zones? 08:13:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fastFox2 commented on issue #10077: [Bug]: Incorrect loan limit amount - other than what the player selected https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10077 08:16:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kulkom commented on pull request #10141: Fix #10140: [SDL2] Lock mouse while moving viewport https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10141#issuecomment-1342250529 09:03:29 <petern> I realised I always use the mode where the pointer isn't locked. 09:18:23 <Wolf01> The locked pointer mode gives me motion sickness like in VR 11:13:58 <petern> Portal RTX later today. 11:24:38 <petern> ngggggggggggg 11:47:10 *** Tirili has joined #openttd 11:53:23 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 13:23:38 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 14:30:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Pruple: realistically, on a shared road+tram, the tram tends to have a much lower speed limit 14:32:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] legitalk opened issue #10226: [Bug]: Train speed vs. Aircraft speed https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10226 14:34:46 <LordAro> ahahaha 14:36:59 <Eddi|zuHause> "how to most politely point them at the plane speed setting"? 14:38:19 <petern> I'll do it. 14:38:36 <LordAro> it's even in the thread mentioned in the issue 14:38:43 <LordAro> though missing justification, of course 14:38:51 <LordAro> "planes too OP" 14:39:23 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #10226: [Bug]: Train speed vs. Aircraft speed https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10226 14:43:25 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 14:44:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #10226: [Bug]: Train speed vs. Aircraft speed https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10226 14:55:25 <petern> Turns out if you move things to vectors and such, and forget to remove all traces of memset/memcpy etc... boom 🙂 15:03:03 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe we should work on a rust port? :p 15:04:26 <bigyihsuan> openttd-rs lol 15:55:05 <petern> How about a pointer to a vector of pointers, just for fun? 16:23:40 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] legitalk commented on issue #10226: [Bug]: Train speed vs. Aircraft speed https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10226 16:23:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] legitalk closed issue #10226: [Bug]: Train speed vs. Aircraft speed https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10226 16:31:16 <TallTyler> I love when people close their own issues 🙂 16:34:27 <LordAro> peter/glx could've done :p 17:22:16 <petern> Could've 18:04:44 <petern> Hmm, maybe I will just commit this and then forget about it forever 😄 18:08:14 <FLHerne> Pruple: combining speed limits might not make sense for weirdo "tram" types like the suspended monorail 18:08:27 <FLHerne> on balance I think it's a good idea 18:09:59 <FLHerne> a less weird example might be trams on cobblestone streets or so 18:10:51 <FLHerne> if the roadtype's speed restriction represents a practical rather than a legal limit it could make sense for trams to be faster 18:15:10 <supermop_toil> that's how i see road type speeds 18:15:24 <supermop_toil> dirt is slow and highway is fast 18:16:01 <supermop_toil> but if you built a continuously welded rail tramway down the middle of that dirt road, the trams could still go fast 18:17:05 <supermop_toil> monorail tramways always seem unworkably disappointing 18:17:35 <supermop_toil> noting like having your elevated suspended monorail stuck in traffic behind a horse and carriage 18:19:33 <TallTyler> I wonder if it would be possible to have a “no road vehicle collision” flag for a tramtype to fix that 18:20:11 <TallTyler> Could also apply to trains so it would just float over train tracks 18:20:44 <TallTyler> Elevated monorail is the obvious use case but also aerial tramways/gondolas could use it 18:21:02 <supermop_toil> seems like a Sisyphean task to try to make gondolas, monorails, conveyor bellts out of trams 18:21:30 <FLHerne> supermop_toil: it does actually exist as a grf though 18:21:38 <FLHerne> before multiple tramtypes even 18:21:50 <supermop_toil> yes , but it mostly just makes your trams look like neat monorails 18:21:57 <FLHerne> yeah 18:22:14 <FLHerne> TallTyler: and flying lamppost boats 18:22:20 <FLHerne> I like that idea 18:22:23 <TallTyler> What else would you use? We already have pipelines, power lines, flumes, conveyor belts, aerial gondolas, and now elevated monorails 18:22:24 <supermop_toil> it doesn't provide the benefit/functionality of elevated rails 18:22:56 <FLHerne> ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILqrfF75hUo ) 18:23:06 <supermop_toil> which , bypass street traffic and fitting in and around existing infrastructure 18:23:10 <TallTyler> People have already exploited it, we might as well make it more useful 18:23:33 <TallTyler> Although I think half of my list are railtypes created before NRT allowed multiple road/tram types 18:23:53 <TallTyler> And should really be re-coded as trams or roads 18:24:26 <supermop_toil> and there are other things like gondolas/ropeways that really make no sense as a tramway 18:24:33 *** Flygon has quit IRC 18:24:36 <TallTyler> What else would they be, then? 18:24:44 <TallTyler> Add a new transport type? 18:24:47 <supermop_toil> yep 18:25:05 <petern> New bits can be added to NRT, it isn't immutable 😄 18:25:32 <TallTyler> What would the new umbrella category be, if not roads or trams? 18:26:06 <petern> Imagine say a flag to indicate high-level, so it draws the vehicles off the ground... 18:26:14 <TallTyler> I don’t see a problem with tramways being expanded to other fixed-guideway systems 18:26:19 <supermop_toil> its a fundamentally different paradigm, both gameplay wise and conceptually - minimal vehicle cost (or none, the vehicle is conceptually part of the guideway) 18:26:20 <TallTyler> Better than roads for sure 18:26:24 <petern> (And so they don't interfere with non-high-level vehicles) 18:28:15 <TallTyler> I don’t disagree, but the possible scope creep of a vehicle-less transport type scares me 😬 18:28:59 <TallTyler> And adding a flag and changing its behavior is solidly in my wheelhouse 🙂 18:29:21 <supermop_toil> where as a road its like, buy newer faster trucks and the guideway is dumb but highly networkable, pay per truck, but a conveyor like type is - very light cost of the vehicle but more of the cost is in the guideway itself 18:30:26 <supermop_toil> the guideway is the vehicle, and constrained in its networking 18:32:15 <supermop_toil> you have a pumping station, or a stationary engine, etc, 18:32:47 <TallTyler> I’d argue that trams are the closest analogue in OpenTTD without so many changes to the game that the concept would die in bikeshedding 18:33:08 <TallTyler> And legitimate debate, for that matter 18:33:17 <supermop_toil> maybe 18:34:23 <supermop_toil> but a gondola or coal conveyor belt with junctions and mixed traffic of vehicles feels more or less like a winamp skin 18:35:12 <supermop_toil> as opposed to an interesting different tool/puzzle with different strengths 18:35:22 <TallTyler> I guess that’s up to the player how they want to use it 18:37:16 <supermop_toil> not even from a realism perspective, i mean more like the difference between fire flower and tanuki suit, as opposed to the difference between mario and luigi 18:37:54 <supermop_toil> does that make sense? 18:39:18 <supermop_toil> and like, some guideways could be cheaper to build bridges - afterall the gondola cables are already elevated 18:40:03 <TallTyler> I don’t know the reference but I understand your point. But I worry that the very same game design choices would be impossible to actually get merged 18:42:24 <TallTyler> I think it would be better to make tramways more customizable by NewGRF authors by adding more flags like “no tunnels” (aerial tramway, etc), “no road crossings” (flume/conveyor belts, both of which are currently roads), etc. 18:42:42 <supermop_toil> flume can be road or tram 18:42:47 <supermop_toil> i put in a parameter 18:42:56 <TallTyler> And get NewGRF road stops merged for better stations 18:43:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/5cef40591bd8e13fbdcde83d1b915b8788a45de1 18:43:12 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 18:43:28 <TallTyler> If flumes are trams, can they be placed on a road or is that prevented somehow? 18:43:43 <supermop_toil> but then also like... i don't want my logs to be able to unload at a truck station 18:43:55 <supermop_toil> no way to prevent it 18:44:07 <TallTyler> We can add a flag for that 🙂 18:44:53 <supermop_toil> but its really a novelty grf - there is no way for it to really work like a log flume, and is more like an art exercise in kitbashing 18:45:14 <TallTyler> I use it quite a bit actually 18:45:25 <petern> Pipelines? 18:45:42 <supermop_toil> really it should be more like "x tons of lumber can come out the other end per tick" 18:45:47 <TallTyler> Pipelines are a good example of another “no road crossing” flag needed 18:46:27 <petern> That's assuming pipelines should be implemented as roads, which is not a given. 18:46:49 <TallTyler> They’re currently train tracks, which is definitely worse 😛 18:46:57 <supermop_toil> petern: i believe flumes should be a type of pipe 18:48:06 <supermop_toil> as is you can get weird things were like, no logs flowing because you are waiting for your empty logs to come back up hill 18:48:12 <TallTyler> I guess you could animate them by spawning a cargo sprite-only vehicle at one end and destroying it at the other 18:48:33 <TallTyler> Factory Town does this pretty well 18:48:51 <supermop_toil> and logs cannot flow nearly far enough on a flat flume even if they just zoomed down a huge mountain 18:49:22 <supermop_toil> and if they come to a stop behind another log on a flat segment, they can't really get started again 18:50:31 <supermop_toil> also you can build a section like \_____/ where logs flow past each other in both directions in the middle 18:51:33 <supermop_toil> so its really just an eyecandy thing 18:54:39 <supermop_toil> if tramways did have things like no_junctions flag, or oneway (single track) that could help 18:55:46 <supermop_toil> but the most damning thing for me is, if my gondola or monorail is a tram, i cannot build a gondola over a tramway 19:02:51 <TallTyler> Not without a bridge or tunnel, anyway 19:04:05 <TallTyler> We could add a third transport type for elevated vehicles but then we haven’t solved pipes or flumes 19:04:43 <petern> no 3rd type pls :/ 19:04:58 <TallTyler> Yeah, sounds like TMWFTLB to me for sure 19:05:37 <TallTyler> What might be helpful is custom bridges by road/tram/railtype, like what we have with depots 19:06:00 <TallTyler> That way we could have custom bridges for aerial tramways that are just taller support poles 19:07:16 <petern> I think I did originally think about was a flag to say if a road type was road/tram, road/road, tram/tram or tram/road. 19:07:28 <petern> But that doesn't solve much, and makes things way more complex. 19:07:47 <petern> One thing you can do is have a tram type that is compatible with both trams and gondola and use that for crossings... 19:08:02 <petern> That might be a bit too manual though 🙂 19:08:31 <TallTyler> Tom Scott’s ropeway video shows a bridge over the road 🙂 19:09:00 <TallTyler> Personally I’m not too concerned with crossing incompatible types at grade. There are plenty of workarounds 19:09:07 <petern> True that. 19:09:36 <TallTyler> But we need a flag to allow the NewGRF author to prevent combining road/tram on the same tile for cases like Flume 19:10:05 <TallTyler> We already have it for crossing train tracks 19:10:19 <TallTyler> (In both directions, I think) 19:10:21 <petern> Feel free to design one 🙂 19:10:25 <TallTyler> I will! 19:11:02 <petern> NRT is basically "not finished" because sometimes you just need to get things included. And piss off people who think it sucked. Sorry 😦 19:12:09 <TallTyler> I’m between jobs until probably sometime in January so I think I’ll open a PR to add these flags and then maybe make a NewGRF with my favorite alternative transport methods 19:12:31 <TallTyler> Pipeline and gondola for a start 19:12:46 <petern> std::unique_ptr is ‘fun’ to deal with. 19:22:51 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 19:33:51 *** Samu has joined #openttd 19:36:16 <LordAro> petern: if you like unique_ptr, you should try rust :p 19:36:43 <petern> openttd-rs was already mentioned 🙂 19:45:24 <petern> OpenGFX+ stations are not bad. 19:45:39 <petern> Not quite Foster-style though. 19:47:41 <supermop_toil> i wouldn't saddle NRT with stuff specifically to support toy waytypes like pipes and gondola 19:47:55 <supermop_toil> but yes, some flags would be nice 19:49:37 <supermop_toil> no_junctions, no_road, etc 19:50:45 <supermop_toil> or like this waytype can only build this type of bridge? or this waytype bridges are cheaper? 19:50:45 *** Venemo_ is now known as Venemo 20:00:04 <petern> No pipelines are not roads imho 20:02:52 <supermop_toil> im fine with no pipes no belts no flumes 20:03:55 <supermop_toil> if someone wants to kitbash a pipe or chute or moving walkway out of NRT that's on them, NRT shouldn't bend to accomodate that 20:14:28 <TallTyler> So maybe the elevated flag is just “no-interaction” where it doesn’t interact with road vehicles or trains 20:19:41 <glx[d]> while adding flags, maybe look at ground type overlay for bridge entrances 20:24:26 <Samu> it's very difficult to explain #9921 20:29:17 <Samu> i tried to formulate some examples, but it becomes so complex, i gave up on the idea 20:37:35 <Samu> what I tried to correct, was the usage of SubtractMoneyFromCompany 20:40:02 <Samu> each time money is subtracted it would change the value of that company. If another share value is requested on that company during command execution, it would now have a different value 20:40:15 <Samu> kinda repeating myself again... 20:43:09 <Samu> i changed it so it collects all the values first, without using SubtractMoneyFromCompany during this phase, and only after all values are collected, it would subtract them all at once 20:44:44 <Samu> not sure what happens in the real world when a company is sold/bankrupted, im not an expert 20:45:06 <Samu> maybe my approach is wrong from that perspective, I don't know 20:47:01 *** Tirili has quit IRC 20:48:20 <Samu> i guess better just close it 20:49:43 <Samu> the original approach is not exactly wrong either. It's merelly simulating multiple sequences of "Sell shares", and that means it's okay for the same company to have different values 20:50:04 <Samu> it's the result of each individual "sell share" 20:51:32 <petern> TallTyler: Reason I mention elevated is it might be helpful to have the bounding box higher for sprite sorting. Or disallow bridges above... or something... Or maybe it wouldn't 🤷 20:52:00 <TallTyler> Not moving the bounding boxes means we make the NewGRF developer figure it out 😉 20:52:17 <TallTyler> Could use some expertise from someone who knows about bounding boxes 20:57:48 <petern> z = z + 8 21:01:00 <petern> Oh a VS Code update 21:12:05 <Samu> oh, im sad to see #7918 closed :( 21:13:04 <Samu> yeah, it derailed a bit 21:14:17 <Samu> i felt there was no need to create an AI API method for profit last year above min age 21:15:50 <Samu> i just wanted to match group profit last year displayed from vehicle list gui to that of the API 21:16:56 <Samu> but I was suggested to create 2 profits to differentiate them, and that's what I did 21:19:28 <Samu> no changes to the actual API was needed after the addition of the 2nd profit 21:25:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/eints] Gintaras1981 opened issue #123: Cant correct translated words https://github.com/OpenTTD/eints/issues/123 21:26:16 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 21:29:38 <Samu> the part about "autoreplace" was that it was getting in the way of group-statistics copying. It was an issue that only happens after the introduction of the 2nd profit, which is resolved 21:29:57 <Samu> so, yeah, that PR was finished, ready to merge 21:30:58 <petern> "it made sense to me" isn't quite the correct answer. 21:36:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/eints] glx22 commented on issue #123: Cant correct translated words https://github.com/OpenTTD/eints/issues/123 22:17:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #10227: Fix 3c047b1: AIGroup.GetProfitLastYear could get values different than those displayed in GUI https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10227 22:22:08 <Samu> it's cleaner at least 22:22:19 <Samu> without the derail 22:26:32 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 22:27:41 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 22:52:02 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 22:52:11 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 22:55:44 *** nielsm has quit IRC 23:16:46 *** Samu has quit IRC 23:28:56 <petern> Hmm, do I make it so that variants must have a higher index than the parent... 23:38:57 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 23:39:27 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 23:39:48 <Pruple> I don't know, do you? 23:40:02 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 23:42:48 <petern> I guess I can just do extra initialization. 23:47:50 <petern> When syncing initial reliability I just have to make sure it's done in the right order, otherwise it won't be synced. 23:48:38 <petern> Hmm,actually I'm not sure this is the right thing to do. 23:49:02 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:50:34 <petern> Yeah. Reliability syncing needs to work later, otherwise it'll go out of sync if introduction dates are different. 23:51:53 <petern> And that's needed for timed livery introduction.