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10:36:14 <andythenorth> saveload of the game restarts the GS? 10:36:37 <nielsm> yes 10:36:56 <nielsm> exept the GS gets a chance to fill its data from saved data before starting for real 10:37:05 <nielsm> (AI works the same way) 10:38:13 <andythenorth> how do I find the GS API version in doxygen? https://docs.openttd.org/gs-api/index.html 10:38:20 <andythenorth> needs set in the info nut 10:38:56 <nielsm> it should be the same as the game version, afaik 10:39:18 <andythenorth> thanks 10:39:23 <andythenorth> https://docs.openttd.org/gs-api/ has nothing 🙂 10:39:35 <nielsm> raise a bug on it 10:39:55 <andythenorth> is it a bug? I don't know what's intended 🙂 10:40:13 <andythenorth> GS has always been the unloved third child of the APIs 🙂 10:40:47 <petern> Data Structures is not empty but... 10:41:08 <petern> Same for ai-api. 10:41:53 <andythenorth> let's see what I can break 10:41:56 <andythenorth> usually it's valuators 10:41:58 <andythenorth> which baffle me 10:42:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 approved pull request #10358: Codechange: Remove objectspec `enabled` flag and shuffle members. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10358#pullrequestreview-1249183647 10:43:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #10356: Fix #10057: FallbackParagraphLayout fails to properly wrap https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10356 10:43:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 closed issue #10057: [Bug]: FallbackLayouter fails to properly wrap during first word after run change. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10057 10:44:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #10354: Fix #10177: company list password padlock showed after switching to single player https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10354#pullrequestreview-1249184596 10:52:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 opened pull request #10359: Fix #10009: bad overflow protection when taking out loans https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10359 10:52:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #10354: Fix #10177: company list password padlock showed after switching to single player https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10354 10:52:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 closed issue #10177: [Bug]: NetworkCompanyIsPassworded state is not cleared when switching to single player https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10177 10:54:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #10359: Fix #10009: bad overflow protection when taking out loans https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10359#pullrequestreview-1249186443 10:55:19 <petern> Simple fixes = simple reviews = Rubidium commit count++ 10:56:10 <Rubidium> and --bugcount :) 10:56:19 <Rubidium> (hopefully) 10:58:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #10358: Codechange: Remove objectspec `enabled` flag and shuffle members. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10358 11:00:09 *** Etua has joined #openttd 11:04:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #10359: Fix #10009: bad overflow protection when taking out loans https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10359 11:04:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 closed issue #10009: [Bug]: Ineffective overflow protection in CmdIncreaseLoan https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10009 11:25:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #10227: Fix 3c047b1: AIGroup.GetProfitLastYear could get values different than those displayed in GUI https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10227#pullrequestreview-1249194317 11:30:37 <Samu> how do i create a sub group as an ai, need to test something 11:33:29 <Samu> got it, nvm 11:41:09 <Samu> okay, there is still a problem, or maybe not, depending on how you view it 11:41:24 <petern> Rename for clarity is terrifying coming from you 11:42:09 <Samu> if i have a parent group and a child group, on the GUI side of things, the last_year profit of the parent group, includes the profit of itself + the child group 11:43:00 <Samu> if i have 1 vehicle in parent group and 0 in child group, the profit last year is -£400 or wtv 11:43:32 <Samu> for the parent group 11:44:06 <Samu> if i have 1 vehicle in child group, and 0 in parent group, the profit last year is still -£400 for the parent group 11:44:20 <Samu> for the AI side of things, however, it's £0' 11:45:17 <Samu> I may be biased, but I prefer it that way 11:45:29 <Samu> but it certainly doesn't match that of the GUI 11:46:46 <Samu> should I solve this? 11:50:20 <nielsm> Samu: I believe it does match the GUI, just not in the place you expect 11:50:35 <nielsm> you see how in the GUI there is a grey/red/yellow/green dot next to each group? 11:51:22 <Samu> yes 11:51:42 <nielsm> that indicates whether that group had a profit last year (as relevant to the company score calculation) that is not present (grey), negative (red), under 10k (yellow) or above 10k (green) 11:52:05 <Samu> that's the profit last year min age 11:52:16 <Samu> I'm refering to profit last year only 11:53:10 <nielsm> you are saying that the info you get from the function does not exist in the gui, I'm saying that it does just not in the way you expect 11:54:36 <nielsm> I would recommend documenting what the function actually does, and leave the functionality alone 11:56:50 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 11:59:57 <Xarick> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1064151956668559381/Unnamed_1978-05-26.png 11:59:57 <Xarick> Group 0 is parent, has no vehicle, Group 1 is child, has bus in it with negative last year profit. 12:00:41 <Samu> From the script side of things, however, things don't seem to be coherent 12:00:55 <Samu> it says num of vehicles in group 0 is 1 12:01:21 <Samu> in that function, it includes vehicles in child groups 12:01:48 <Samu> but in the one that gets profit last year, it doesn't include the profit of that vehicle 12:11:47 *** Etua has quit IRC 12:27:22 <andythenorth> on the plus side, compiling FIRS GS is almost instant 12:27:32 <andythenorth> on the negative side, much else 🙂 12:27:44 <Eddi|zuHause> petern: "use one engineID for all articulated parts" is problematic because each switch can only branch in 256 ways, and you can only have 256 concurrent IDs for branch targets/spritesets 12:28:23 <Samu> okay, i know how to fix this, but then GetProfitThisYear would also need to be changed, I rather have them both relate with the same criteria 12:28:47 <Eddi|zuHause> plus var61 has some limitations within cb36 12:29:09 <Eddi|zuHause> because of potential circular dependencies 12:29:11 <Samu> I'm on the opinion of improving documentation 12:29:36 <Samu> to reflect that it does not include child groups 12:30:15 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 12:31:04 <andythenorth> ok there are 2 things mixed up here, (1) I have no clue how to GS (2) I am unclear on what I want to do with GS 12:31:13 <andythenorth> I do love the first stage of any project like this 😛 12:31:27 <andythenorth> stumbling cluelessly towards an uncertain goal, with unfamiliar tools 12:42:14 *** TROILUS has quit IRC 12:48:34 <andythenorth> hmm 12:48:45 <andythenorth> probably the first thing to do is figure out how limited GS is 12:49:14 <andythenorth> got no concept of how the opcodes limit relates to what can actually be done 12:50:26 <andythenorth> will it make a log entry if I exceed opcodes? 12:55:33 <andythenorth> the MinimalGS boilerplate only loops every 5 game days 12:55:44 <andythenorth> hmm 12:55:51 <andythenorth> maybe I just try flooding it and see what happens 12:59:05 <michi_cc[d]> If a scripts exceeds the opcode limit, it will just be suspended until the next game tick. Nothing more and nothing less. 13:09:56 <glx[d]> Every command also delay for a tick 13:25:38 <LordAro> been a while sincr we had a "RB fixes everything" commit spree 13:32:23 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #10357: Fix #9865: removing files with the console always failed https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10357#pullrequestreview-1249229982 13:34:15 <Pruple> pre-release cleanout? 13:35:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #10355: Change #10077: make maximum loan a positive multiple of the loan interval https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10355#pullrequestreview-1249230600 13:35:52 <michi_cc[d]> Well, RC2 is somewhat overdue. But life. 13:36:29 <LordAro> or actual release? 13:41:21 <andythenorth> is there a way I can detect suspension? 13:41:35 <andythenorth> I'm not obsessed by this, just don't understand the execution environment at all 13:41:39 <glx[d]> Suspension of ? 13:41:43 <michi_cc[d]> No, it is transparent to the script. 13:42:11 <andythenorth> so I have no way to know if I'm trying to do unachievable things, but I could write my own logging framework? 13:42:25 <michi_cc[d]> It is conceptutally the same as when your OS multi-threads and switches threads. 13:42:33 <andythenorth> I will know the tick, or the date etc, and could compare if it changed? 13:42:36 <andythenorth> before a task completed 13:44:05 <michi_cc[d]> Suspension is on the actual interpreter level. The script could even be suspendend in the middle of comparing the tick. The opcode limit simply decides how many "MHz" your script CPU has. 13:44:08 <glx[d]> Scripts are supposed to be event driven 13:44:55 <michi_cc[d]> I.e. with a low opcode limit you have a slow "CPU", and a high opcode limits means a faster "CPU". 13:45:03 <andythenorth> ok thanks 13:45:24 <andythenorth> glx[d]: I know, but all the ones I've seen just run on scheduled loops 13:45:33 <andythenorth> there may be others 13:45:58 <glx[d]> Scheduled loop is a kind of event 13:46:03 <michi_cc[d]> And just like on the computer itself, a complicated algorithm will take a long time on a slow CPU, so the amount of work a script can do in a given game time is limited. 13:46:06 <nielsm> ideally the AI and GS scripts should have a queue of "things to do" where each thing to do is very small, and game events get to skip the queue and get handled ASAP 13:46:46 <nielsm> so they can re-evaluate the situation often and react to game events fast 13:46:54 <andythenorth> ideally I would get the confusion stage as fast as possible and start trying things 13:46:55 <andythenorth> 😛 13:46:57 <andythenorth> GS is weird 13:47:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #10357: Fix #9865: removing files with the console always failed https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10357 13:47:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 closed issue #9865: [Bug]: `rm` (and by extension `del`) always fails https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9865 13:47:40 <nielsm> you can think of it as the game simulation keeps running in the background of your script all the time 13:47:47 <michi_cc[d]> The added complication is that anything that causes a Command to be executed immediately ends the current time slice as it has to wait for the game loop to process the event, which takes until the next game tick. 13:48:33 <michi_cc[d]> So any command action (e.g. building something, giving orders, setting town growth, changing a goal) is quite costly. 13:48:49 <nielsm> another thing for GS is that you should handle game saving and loading, ideally as fast as possible 13:49:30 <nielsm> while I haven't actually written any real GS myself (Eternal Love doesn't count) I think the approach I would take is store all internal data in a form ready to save, so nothing has to be converted on load or save 13:50:10 <andythenorth> GS is quite uncanny valley 13:50:12 <michi_cc[d]> Going by random comments on the internet, the save/load opcode limit seems to be somewhat low. It might the same as the usual NewGRF things that apprently everybody knows that but nobody ever bothered to do any kind of proper report for it. 13:50:22 <andythenorth> superficially GS is really approachable, but eh, nope 13:50:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #10355: Change #10077: make maximum loan a positive multiple of the loan interval https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10355#pullrequestreview-1249234151 13:51:04 <andythenorth> so I have no real way to know how many opcodes I'm consuming? 13:51:31 <andythenorth> maybe there's a tick counter I can use as a proxy 13:51:47 <Rubidium> andythenorth: can't be more than a few lines of C++ code in the right place 13:51:48 <nielsm> you can probably count opcodes from the squirrel code structure, more or less 13:52:23 <andythenorth> it's not that I think there's a problem BTW 🙂 13:52:28 <andythenorth> it's more that there's no way to know 😛 13:52:43 <andythenorth> I don't know if I can write e.g. a monthly loop that looks at every town 13:52:52 <andythenorth> unless I write some kind of performance monitor 13:53:04 <Rubidium> it will have counted them, so just dump that value each time the script execution is done. But alas, that's 33+ lines of debug per second 13:53:06 <andythenorth> Flash games this used to be simple, there was an FPS counter 😛 13:53:40 <andythenorth> and then we had to write an async network sendload handler 13:53:41 <michi_cc[d]> The thing that will probably limit you at lot more is the one commend per tick limit, from which you can easily calculate how many town actions you can do at most per month. 13:54:20 <andythenorth> so is every GS method a command? 13:54:22 <petern> It's not like co-operative multitasking on RISC OS. 13:54:24 <andythenorth> or just SetX() 13:54:32 <petern> That might be a concept familiar to you 🙂 13:54:58 <michi_cc[d]> 74 ticks per day * 30 days a month -> at most 2220 commands per month. 13:55:06 <andythenorth> hmm 13:55:37 <michi_cc[d]> A command is anything that is transmitted over the (network) command system, i.e. mostly write actions that need to sync game state over network. 13:55:48 <andythenorth> it was noticeable that when dP wrote the electricity pylon placer it took months to place a full chain of pylons 13:56:08 <andythenorth> although it was instant if run before gamestart 😛 13:56:21 <nielsm> command = things that affect the game state and must be visible by all players 13:56:39 <michi_cc[d]> Yeah, because the command tick limit doesn't apply during world generation as there is no network sync there. 13:56:54 <andythenorth> ok so just plain squirrel isn't a command, e.g. just creating objects etc? 13:57:01 <andythenorth> declaring vars 13:57:04 <michi_cc[d]> No. 13:57:26 <petern> Querying game state isn't either. 13:57:26 <michi_cc[d]> Commands are the stuff that is in *_cmd.cpp basically. 13:58:04 <michi_cc[d]> So buy a vehicle, clear a tile, plant a tree, terraform land, set town growth, change manager name, place sign and a lot more actions like this. 13:58:34 <andythenorth> is there anything in the API docs that indicates a command? https://docs.openttd.org/gs-api/classGSTown.html#a3d4f59e3a19bec8a8b5c5e6253998b64 13:58:46 <andythenorth> or does it have to be by reference to ottd src? 13:59:23 <nielsm> actually there isn't, and that probably ought to be there 13:59:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #10355: Change #10077: make maximum loan a positive multiple of the loan interval https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10355 14:00:03 <michi_cc[d]> Rule of thumb would be almost all SetXXX, and in this case also Perform/Expand/Found. 14:00:13 <petern> Could do with async stuff tbh 🙂 14:04:34 <andythenorth> I don't have super fancy ideas right now 14:05:20 <andythenorth> but the ideas I do have likely require walking all towns and all industries multiple times within a monthly loop, or every 7 days or so 14:06:34 <petern> Might be a problem on a 4kx4k map, but then what isn't? 14:10:08 <andythenorth> 16k maps in JGRPP though 14:10:51 <petern> What's that? 14:12:46 <andythenorth> also does it really matter if the GS is behind? 14:12:55 <Pruple> I once started writing a gamescript that renamed towns based on their location. It really didn't work well on any but the smallest maps... 14:13:08 <petern> Behind what? 14:13:24 <andythenorth> behind the gameplay 14:13:35 <andythenorth> if there's supposed to be e.g. a monthly loop 14:13:38 <andythenorth> but things aren't getting done 14:13:42 <andythenorth> maybe fine? 14:15:03 <petern> Oh. Well if it takes longer than a month that could be a problem. 14:15:22 <andythenorth> ah 14:15:31 <andythenorth> ok so it could just run through everything 14:15:56 <andythenorth> I'm taking design cues from MinimalGS, which is the boilerplate example Zuu made, and has a single MonthEnd loop 14:16:31 <andythenorth> ok so if all towns could be visited over the course of a month, it doesn't all have to happen at once on last day 14:17:04 * andythenorth wonders how all these citybuilder scripts work 14:17:30 <petern> They give up and build it into their own server. 14:18:04 <andythenorth> every time I look at GS, I consider requesting an extension to grf spec 😛 14:19:46 <andythenorth> ✅ wouldn't have to manage saveload state 14:19:58 <andythenorth> ✅ performance would just work, no opcodes to worry about 14:20:07 <andythenorth> ✅ events are handled on callbacks 14:20:28 <andythenorth> ✅ better debugging and developer tools 14:20:50 <andythenorth> ✅ every problem looks like a nail, if you all understand is hammers 14:22:07 <frosch> did you ask chatgpt about that? "better debugging and developer tools" is lolz 🙂 14:22:48 <andythenorth> it's quite a low bar in both cases 😛 14:23:10 <andythenorth> reload_newgrfs is a thing though 14:23:11 <Pruple> andythenorth: I think this is correct. GS is for gametypes, not for extending NewGRF functionality. 14:25:37 <frosch> andythenorth: i don't know "printf debugging + break points + directly interpreted code" vs "internal variables + no break points + manual reverse engineering from nfo errors to nml to pynml to template..." 14:25:57 <Pruple> I also, incidentally, enjoy the way the rail sprites in action 3 cargo 2 are in a completely different order from the base sprites 🙂 14:26:32 <andythenorth> frosch: also as an author GS log is quite useful 14:27:27 <andythenorth> oh I did have an idea for making GS better to work with 14:27:37 <andythenorth> storybook can have buttons? 14:27:48 <andythenorth> I think I can write a custom debugger / dev tool in the storybook 14:29:06 <petern> 2% health in Doom is not a good idea. 14:29:25 <andythenorth> my Doom isn't working any more 14:29:26 <andythenorth> M1 issues 14:31:08 <andythenorth> ok so is there any reason in principle we couldn't extend town grf spec? 14:31:28 <andythenorth> there was a long and silly discussion many years ago about GS replacing grf for things like that, with people who are no longer here 14:31:45 <andythenorth> well Pruple is still here 14:32:08 <Pruple> extend town grf spec to do what? 14:32:38 <supermop_Home> power 14:32:45 <andythenorth> have a monthly callback, instead of managing it from a stupid industry loop, like I currently do 14:33:03 <andythenorth> and also to be able to put text into the town window 14:33:23 <andythenorth> some of the gameplay things I want to do, I already did in grf, it's just weird 14:33:36 <andythenorth> also grf callback for company town rating 14:34:12 <Pruple> actually, thinking about towns the other day, there are two variables I'd quite like (tm) for towns; the count of towns, and the global population. basically in order to figure out how relatively large the town is. 14:34:26 <supermop_Home> google is basically worthless these days 14:34:44 <andythenorth> map global storage 😛 14:35:54 <andythenorth> wonder if I deleted my FIRS town effects branch 14:36:36 <supermop_Home> "godox jr flash not firiring FE2" just gives you a bunch of boilerplate affiliate marketing site reviews of the flash, not any forum discussion of people having issues with their flash not firing, or people using the flash on an FE2 14:37:08 <andythenorth> https://github.com/andythenorth/firs/blob/advanced_town_economy/src/templates/monthly_town_loop.pynml 14:37:37 <Pruple> "influence town behaviour"... towns have behaviour? 14:38:32 <supermop_Home> growing is a behavior i guess 14:38:36 <andythenorth> building houses and stuff 14:39:03 <andythenorth> grf can't control growth directly, but building choice can be driven from a town register that FIRS can write to 14:39:28 <andythenorth> and industries in the town can change production based on town 'happiness' 14:39:48 <andythenorth> I abandoned it because I can't write to the town window 14:40:04 <andythenorth> so there has to be a weird 'Plaza' industry to tell the player about town 14:40:06 <andythenorth> but 14:40:14 <andythenorth> the only way to get a Plaza into every town is... 14:40:15 <andythenorth> ...GS 14:40:22 <Pruple> "town happiness" sounds like something that should be a gamescript. and possibly newgrf agnostic. 🙂 14:40:25 <andythenorth> all roads lead to GS, but it just sucks 14:40:31 <petern> Pruple: Sorry 😦 14:40:55 <andythenorth> but GS basically we don't know if it works or not 14:41:20 <andythenorth> ok, so now that's all sorted, I need a GS timer 14:41:39 <andythenorth> and a 'restart the GS' button in storybook 14:42:18 <supermop_Home> pruple i'd also like the nature of the growth to be specific to type of town, where type is somehow related to the industries it has nearby, which means you'd want grfs to have more influence on towns? 14:42:41 <andythenorth> FIRS GS knows about all the FIRS industries 14:42:46 <andythenorth> that's not agnostic but eh 14:43:16 <glx[d]> There have been discussions about one script per town 14:43:25 <andythenorth> it detects the economies as well, because it's not allowed to read GRF parameters currently https://github.com/andythenorth/firs/blob/gs-is-real/src/gs/firs.pynut 14:43:55 <andythenorth> I am unclear about the 'multiple GS' thing 14:44:01 <andythenorth> what opportunity does it unlock? 14:44:06 <andythenorth> more smaller GS being written? 14:44:11 <Pruple> supermop_Home: I think, typically, most towns will have most industries nearby, so that's not very useful. Unless you're limiting your industries by town, which is something your houses can mirror by simply using the same town categorisation. 🙂 14:44:47 <supermop_Home> like a well served town that doesn't have industries nor a central, well connected location might grow as a bedroom community with lots of residences, but wouldn't grow a a large central business district 14:45:20 <supermop_Home> Pruple i guess that depends on what you consider 'nearby' 14:45:48 <supermop_Home> but usually on a steeltown type game i might only have a handful of blast furnaces across the map 14:45:53 <supermop_Home> not one per each town 14:48:36 <andythenorth> if I write the GS to do it, you might get one blast furnace, near the middle 😛 14:48:38 <andythenorth> dunno 14:52:44 <supermop_Home> i'd be down with one furnace per 512*512 chunk 14:52:56 <supermop_Home> as long as its not on top of a mountain 14:54:32 <supermop_Home> andythenorth making big grey solid slabs for walls then pasting them into another psd where i add layer effects and noise, clamp to pallet, and paste back 14:54:51 <supermop_Home> i worry its a little too shaded though 14:55:39 <petern> Campfires are better for cooking food in early game, tho 14:56:18 <supermop_Home> petern: FIRS: Paleolithic Basic economy? 14:57:37 <petern> FIRS: Minecraft economy. Where gold is uselsss... 14:57:57 <andythenorth> we should have a second currency though 14:58:00 <andythenorth> now you mention it 14:58:08 <andythenorth> because money is too easy 14:58:22 <petern> OpenNFT? 15:01:21 <FLHerne> petern: at least it's not Copper 15:01:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #10330: Codechange: Rework 'start_date' parameter for AIs as a game setting https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10330 15:02:08 <petern> That gives you the ability to zoom in. 15:06:24 <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10227#discussion_r1070364864 help me here, how do i reorder this struct in a manner that makes sense 15:06:48 <Samu> and memory friendly or soemthing 15:07:00 <Samu> didn't quite understood 15:07:06 <Samu> understand* 15:15:45 <andythenorth> GS I have to use special MP-safe random, not squirrel random? 15:16:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #10227: Fix 3c047b1: AIGroup.GetProfitLastYear could get values different than those displayed in GUI https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10227#pullrequestreview-1249264907 15:17:01 <petern> Have I started a trend by shuffling ObjectSpec about? :p 15:17:02 <andythenorth> what's the point of RandItem()? 15:17:07 <andythenorth> it does same as Rand()? 15:17:26 <andythenorth> both return "A random value between 0 and MAX(uint32)." 15:17:59 <andythenorth> is there nothing for lists like python's random.choice() ? 15:18:12 <Samu> includes 0 but does not include the max(uint32) 15:18:21 <andythenorth> I don't mean "what's the point?" 🙂 15:18:24 <Samu> max(uint32) - 1 15:18:27 <andythenorth> I mean "it is confusing, why both?" 15:18:40 <petern> /* static */ uint32 ScriptBase::RandItem(int unused_param) 15:18:40 <petern> { 15:18:40 <petern> return ScriptBase::Rand(); 15:18:40 <petern> } 15:18:56 <petern> I suspect RandItem() is a compatibility function for something that was removed. 15:19:23 <Samu> it's for valuators 15:20:19 <Samu> my_list.Valuate(GSBase.RandItem) i think 15:20:42 <Samu> my_list.Valuate(GSBase.RandItem()) 15:21:29 <andythenorth> not even going to try and understand valuators today 🙂 15:21:40 <andythenorth> every time I read about them, I abandon my GS project 15:22:24 <andythenorth> how do I get a random number? `GSBase.Rand()` is an invalid expression 15:23:58 <Samu> local random_number = GSBase.Rand() 15:24:03 <andythenorth> thanks 15:24:44 <andythenorth> do I have to type convert to string to use as string arg? 15:24:50 <andythenorth> ` local cabbage = GSText(GSText.STR_CABBAGE, GSBase.Rand()); 15:24:50 <andythenorth> GSTown.SetText(town, cabbage);` 15:24:54 <andythenorth> is invalid expression 15:25:15 <andythenorth> string code is `STR_CABBAGE :The random number is {YELLOW}{COMMA}` 15:26:30 <andythenorth> hmm it's working though 15:26:45 <andythenorth> how can it work, i.e. town window shows correct result 15:26:52 <andythenorth> but script crashes at that line 15:27:11 <Samu> https://docs.openttd.org/gs-api/classGSText.html 15:29:08 <andythenorth> I am baffled 🙂 15:29:09 <Samu> you are putting a GSBase.Rand() for the value of {COMMA}? im not sure, i don't work with strings on my gs 15:29:18 <andythenorth> yes 15:29:25 <andythenorth> that should generate an integer no? 15:30:30 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1064204941469700106/image.png 15:31:30 <Samu> doesn't even compile? 15:32:01 <Samu> such a small screenshot, can't see whole error 15:32:08 <andythenorth> the screenshot includes the full path 15:32:19 <andythenorth> which includes my username which is one half of the auth creds, so nope 15:33:25 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1064205677536477254/image.png 15:33:48 <andythenorth> ach I frigging hate GS 🙂 15:33:51 <andythenorth> I am going to play tanks 15:34:20 <andythenorth> it's soooo hard and it makes me feel so stupid 15:34:38 <andythenorth> it is the most complex programming language I have ever tried to use 15:37:50 <Samu> i actually don't know what's wrong, let me dig my own GS that used strings 15:38:34 <andythenorth> it's not actually the worst language I have ever tried to use 15:38:46 <andythenorth> 2000 era javascript was 15:39:20 <andythenorth> the only debugger was window.alert() iirc 15:42:34 <andythenorth> ok, 'expression expected' 15:42:38 <andythenorth> what does it mean? 15:42:51 <andythenorth> google does not find anything relevant for squirrel language 15:44:06 <andythenorth> ok `Log.Info(GSBase.Rand());` does not work 15:44:16 <andythenorth> so how is GSBase.Rand() used? 15:45:00 <Samu> strange, let me test that here 15:45:51 <andythenorth> ok, the issue is incorrectly formatted comment, several lines away 15:46:00 <andythenorth> */ instead of /* 15:47:15 <Samu> works for me, I tried AIBase.Rand() though 15:48:20 <nielsm> andythenorth: you should be able to get extensions for various programming text editors to do syntax highlighting of squirrel code 15:48:37 <nielsm> to make that kind of issues easier to spot 15:48:40 <andythenorth> yeah it works, I'm just not reading the errors correctly Samu 15:49:20 <andythenorth> jfs-: I'd have to write my own for Squirrel 🙂 15:49:24 <andythenorth> or change editor 15:49:29 <andythenorth> Squirrel is basically dead 15:49:52 <Samu> i also like a syntax highliter 15:49:55 <Samu> need one 15:50:11 <andythenorth> in my editor, lua highlighter seems to pick up some of squirrel entities 15:50:17 <nielsm> one new (or "new") use that popped up recently was in team fortress 2, they added support for map scripting via squirrel 15:51:11 <nielsm> there are definitely multiple extensions for VSCode to support squirrel syntax 15:52:18 <andythenorth> there's a Valve guide to it 15:52:52 <andythenorth> ok on a 256x512 map, it seems I can set town window text per month 15:53:28 <andythenorth> I'll try a bigger map 15:54:05 <Samu> i dont use VSCode, i have Notepad++ and Visual Studio 2022 :( 15:54:17 <Samu> is VSCode worth using over Visual Studio? 15:54:36 <nielsm> vscode is worth using over NPP 15:54:47 <Samu> uhm, ok 15:54:50 <nielsm> but I'd say it's complement to Visual Studio 15:54:57 <andythenorth> slow 4k x 4k map is very slow 15:55:09 <andythenorth> maybe I crashed it on river gen 15:55:23 <andythenorth> yeah ottd has hung 15:55:49 <glx[d]> I use vscode for nml 15:55:53 <scrubbles> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/Harringay_West_station_Gresley_J50_0-6-0T_geograph-2888613-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg 15:55:54 <scrubbles> tanks 15:56:23 <andythenorth> such 15:56:44 <andythenorth> game has hung again 15:56:52 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1064211579672985680/image.png 15:58:18 <petern> Again? 15:58:23 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1064211959765020672/image.png 15:58:23 <andythenorth> and again 15:58:37 <petern> It's changed, that's not hung. 15:59:22 <andythenorth> I've turned off rivers 15:59:35 <andythenorth> ^ that's two separate attempts with a restart between them 16:00:13 <andythenorth> hmm are towns limited by name generator? 16:00:13 <andythenorth> I asked for 9999, but I don't seem to have 9999 16:00:36 <nielsm> yes 16:00:51 <nielsm> if the name generator runs out of names you just don't get any more towns 16:01:07 <andythenorth> ok 16:01:19 <andythenorth> so I need to work around that for testing GS 16:01:30 <andythenorth> can we make ffwd faster on 4k^2 maps? 16:01:37 <andythenorth> it's practically 1x game speed 16:01:59 <nielsm> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/8088 16:02:04 <andythenorth> ok it's 8x 😛 16:03:10 <petern> Hmm, did I reorder original HouseSpecs properly... 16:03:24 <petern> Shame c++ doesn't have named initialization. 16:03:30 <andythenorth> fuck me, even scrolling the map to the corner takes 20 seconds on 4k^2 16:03:39 <andythenorth> this is lolz 16:04:13 <andythenorth> ok I've made the GS monthly loop fail 16:04:19 <petern> Yeah, and players pick 4kx4k by default because bigger is better, naturally... 16:05:15 <andythenorth> ok so now I have a data point 16:05:24 <andythenorth> making GS fail is trivial 16:05:42 <andythenorth> I was hoping it might just be false concerns 16:06:40 <andythenorth> ok so if it fails every month 16:06:44 <Rubidium> petern: https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/aggregate_initialization#Designated_initializers 16:06:56 <andythenorth> why do some towns get updated some months, and others in other months? 16:06:56 <andythenorth> it's one foreach loop 16:07:08 <andythenorth> if the loop exits early, it should restart next month no? 16:08:10 <andythenorth> it seems to be resuming the foreach, like it was suspended? 16:08:28 <andythenorth> but this means the monthly loop isn't being called fresh at least once per month 16:09:17 <andythenorth> this is why every time someone has to explain to me what 'event driven' means? 16:09:24 <andythenorth> but why isn't there a monthly loop event? 16:10:53 <andythenorth> 🧠 16:12:45 <andythenorth> ok one step at a time, how do I increase the number of opcodes? 16:14:05 <andythenorth> found it in settings 🙂 16:14:27 <andythenorth> woah max is only 250k 16:17:13 <andythenorth> ok that gets through all towns on the map in about 4 months 16:17:22 <andythenorth> so if it was maybe 1m opcodes, that might be enough? 16:17:24 <andythenorth> or maybe 2m 16:18:17 <andythenorth> found the ini file 16:19:36 <petern> So when do we require C++20? 🙂 16:21:20 <andythenorth> script_max_opcode_till_suspend is used for GS as well as AI? 16:21:32 <andythenorth> I set `max = 10000000` and recompiled 16:21:36 <andythenorth> then changed the setting 16:21:47 <andythenorth> still 4 months to so to walk all the towns on a 4k^2 map 16:22:22 <Samu> isn't it only 2500 ops? 16:22:34 <Samu> on game script initialization 16:22:40 <andythenorth> dunno 🙂 16:22:55 <andythenorth> but my change has made no difference to my very crude test 16:23:15 <Samu> but yeah, 2500, in no way that would be able to deal with 10k towns 16:23:30 <andythenorth> it's only 5k towns, OpenTTD limits the setting 16:23:41 <andythenorth> you can enter 9999, but then it adjusts the value 16:23:47 <Samu> hmm 16:23:50 <andythenorth> 5k towns is not many 16:24:15 <Samu> you can have more than 5k towns if you use very high number of towns and 4k map size 16:24:37 <andythenorth> I am entering 'custom' for the number 16:24:41 <andythenorth> that's capped to 5k 16:24:52 <andythenorth> also capped in JGRPP 😦 16:25:07 <andythenorth> /me generates 16k^2 map 16:25:16 <Samu> custom is capped to 5k because... they didn't like me adjusting that to 20k 16:25:19 <andythenorth> oh it's building 64k towns 🙂 16:25:23 <Samu> kek 16:25:24 <andythenorth> JGRPP ftw 16:25:53 <andythenorth> this is so slow 16:25:58 <andythenorth> it really needs to be a lot faster 16:26:17 <andythenorth> it's been running 2 mins or so 16:26:19 <FLHerne> the generation? 16:26:21 <andythenorth> just to make a map 16:26:30 <FLHerne> an impractically huge map 16:26:48 <Samu> i dont think you can get all towns have added extra text via GS 16:26:59 <Samu> with newGRF however, that's possible 16:27:10 <andythenorth> grf can't do it, not in the spec 16:27:19 <andythenorth> still waiting for this map 16:27:22 <Samu> oh :( 16:27:26 <andythenorth> 3 mins now 16:27:31 <andythenorth> this is silly 16:27:39 <andythenorth> why is it so slow? 16:28:16 <andythenorth> ok done, ~4 mins 16:28:23 <Samu> oh, well newgrf can add extra text to industries at least, i thought they could do it for towns too 16:28:28 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on various settings 16:28:44 <andythenorth> ugh GS factor 0.5 16:28:50 <andythenorth> this is not going to be viable for testing 16:29:36 <Samu> you want to update 5000 towns at every month, all at once? 16:30:07 <andythenorth> 64k 16:30:43 <andythenorth> but the first problem is that the game is only running at 0.6x even if I put the map in the corner and close everything except FPS 16:31:30 <andythenorth> Samu: do I want to? no 16:31:43 <andythenorth> does the game support players making 16k^2 maps with 64k towns? yes 16:31:46 <Samu> on my Company Value GS, when i try to update goal texts for the 15 companies, it's not instant at all... 16:32:40 <Samu> it's over time, it sends multiple DoCommands, one for each company text i wanna update... GS's aren't really all that good 16:32:53 <andythenorth> ok so maybe only use GS at game start, when it has free opcodes 16:32:59 <Samu> 15 is still manageable 16:33:10 <Samu> 5000 however.... that's just unfeasible 16:33:19 <andythenorth> but it needs to be feasible 16:33:59 <andythenorth> if the base game can update the town stats for that number of towns, then it's clearly not impossible 16:34:17 <JGR> If the town already has the right text, you don't have to "update" it, just doing that alone nets you a very large saving on most maps 16:34:32 <JGR> Likewise for other things to set like town growth 16:35:49 <JGR> Vanilla doesn't support 16k^2 maps so they're not going to be moved by arguments about those 😛 16:36:19 <andythenorth> no but the JGRPP playerbase is significant 16:36:30 <JGR> It also isn't the end of the world if "monthly" processes take longer than a calendar month 16:36:57 <andythenorth> no, but then gameplay shouldn't be designed on the assumption that things will complete in a month 16:36:58 <JGR> The 16k^2 subset of that is effectively 0 16:38:27 <andythenorth> it's interesting to try 16:38:36 <andythenorth> 4k^2 5k towns is ... slow 16:38:52 <andythenorth> 16k^2 64k towns is...pathological 16:39:05 <andythenorth> but the 4k^2 case is unsupportable anyway 16:40:17 <andythenorth> 2048^2 is also slow 16:40:18 <JGR> For most players the number of towns isn't linear with the map area 16:40:33 <andythenorth> ok, GS really is quite unworkable in this format 16:40:47 <JGR> With bigger maps you can have much more space between towns instead of just having more of them 16:41:32 <andythenorth> agreed, I'm just trying to find the limits 🙂 16:41:38 <Eddi|zuHause> absurd number of towns could use some early exit in case of a) town name generator runs out of names, or b) map runs out of space 16:42:29 <Eddi|zuHause> both are kinda fuzzy to check 16:43:06 <andythenorth> ok with ~3k towns, GS can get through them all in about 5 game days 16:43:09 <JGR> Players trying to do extreme size maps just have to accept that things will be a bit slower 16:43:28 <andythenorth> trying to do everything in a single month-end check doesn't work 16:44:02 <andythenorth> ah the 5 days is because MinimalGS boilerplates that 16:44:12 <andythenorth> ` // Loop with a frequency of five days 16:44:12 <andythenorth> local ticks_used = GSController.GetTick() - loop_start_tick; 16:44:12 <andythenorth> GSController.Sleep(max(1, 5 * 74 - ticks_used)); 16:44:12 <andythenorth> ` 16:44:23 <andythenorth> let's remove that 16:45:28 <andythenorth> hmm quite hard to test, my test consists of randomly sampling by opening some town windows 16:45:37 <andythenorth> very unreliable 16:45:49 <andythenorth> I could just log the loop instead 16:46:05 <JGR> Also, are you using release/non-debug builds for this? 16:46:20 <andythenorth> no, but it's a good question 🙂 16:46:37 <andythenorth> cmake -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release .. 16:46:44 <andythenorth> is what I used 16:46:53 <JGR> That should be fine 16:48:17 <andythenorth> ok still using random sampling, but it's actually about a month to do 3k towns 16:48:21 <andythenorth> even with the sleeps removed 16:49:06 <andythenorth> how many ticks in a month? 16:49:14 <andythenorth> 2220? 16:49:25 <andythenorth> probably more than a month to do 3k then 16:53:02 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:55:16 <andythenorth> lol 'town happiness', but measured biannually? 😛 16:55:43 <andythenorth> (biennially) 16:56:27 <JGR> You only need to use a command if the happiness is different to the last measurement interval's 16:56:44 <andythenorth> ah so I could just keep an internal representation of state? 16:57:57 <andythenorth> "or the town window text could just be a grf callback" 16:59:06 <JGR> Not much chance of getting that into v13, so it depends how long you're prepared to wait 17:02:18 <andythenorth> a long time 17:02:34 <andythenorth> v13 is all about variants and all the other things 🙂 17:02:43 <andythenorth> this GS vs GRF thing is a long-standing puzzle 17:04:16 <Samu> Setting text requiring a DoCommand is the issue imo 17:04:52 <Samu> or just DoCommand DC_EXEC in general 17:05:22 <petern> Required for network games though. 17:05:23 <JGR> GSs are only run on the server, not the clients 17:08:28 <petern> In theory the server might be able to do magic for GS commands, but... it doesn't. 17:11:01 <andythenorth> also fixing one symptom won't address the general case 17:11:12 <andythenorth> even if town window text was set differently 17:11:29 <andythenorth> there might be 5k industries that I try to set a production flag for each month 17:12:04 <andythenorth> NotGRFTowns then? 17:12:30 <glx[d]> Even vanilla game loop doesn't check every thing each month 17:12:51 <glx[d]> Don't expect GS to be able to handle it 17:13:08 <petern> Maybe if GS could batch up commands it would help, if that was possible. 17:14:01 <glx[d]> But command may depend on the result of previous one 17:14:32 <petern> But not always. 17:15:09 <andythenorth> glx[d]: I know, but some things are ~guaranteed, like industry production and town pax production 🙂 17:16:26 <petern> I can batch commands to an API and it can either execute until the first fails, or execute all ignoring failures. 17:16:50 <petern> And then it can return a result that gives the status of each command. 17:16:55 <petern> But that's just web stuff... 17:17:08 <JGR> The GS execution model makes this fairly difficult 17:18:20 <JGR> It'd probably be easier to add commands which take an array of townID and value pairs 17:21:49 <andythenorth> or not try and do things that require that 🙂 17:21:53 <andythenorth> I guess 17:22:11 <andythenorth> FWIW, my goal is to make town cargos have an effect 😛 17:22:20 <andythenorth> which is remarkably difficult currently 17:23:41 <petern> What's a town cargo and what's the effect you are looking for? 17:25:05 <andythenorth> e.g. deliver goods to town, get an effect 🙂 17:25:24 <andythenorth> it's so instinctive, the wiki used to literally explain that it didn't work that way 17:25:55 <andythenorth> the effect ideally would be open to interpretation by house grfs 17:25:59 <andythenorth> and industries in the town 17:26:39 <petern> The cargo TE_* stuff was meant to do some things, but I think it doesn't.... 17:26:41 <andythenorth> for goods substitute any other cargo, with possibly different effects 17:26:54 <andythenorth> cargo TE_ is just one of those historical messes 🙂 17:27:00 <andythenorth> shows CS was considering the whole idea 17:27:06 <andythenorth> nearly works 17:27:25 <andythenorth> currently I can use town registers to store a happiness value 17:27:40 <andythenorth> I can only count cargos delivered to actual industries, not houses 17:27:49 <andythenorth> industries and houses can then read that 17:28:01 <andythenorth> I have a weird fake town monthly loop using industries 17:28:20 <petern> I don't think TE_ was an original thing. 17:30:01 <Samu> Im testing this GS on a 4k map 12k towns https://gist.githubusercontent.com/SamuXarick/48ab15372743278759902a7493fe7903/raw/646cd1d43c3ec1718357b78d3aaf123e1d12d45e/gistfile1.txt 17:31:29 <andythenorth> effect of food and water was in TTD I think 17:31:32 <petern> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/99577265deda433fa0ea7cd29ed26b82743e3762 17:31:35 <andythenorth> which TE is supposed to extend 17:31:43 <andythenorth> well you'd know then 🙂 17:32:02 <petern> Before TE_, the code literally just tested the cargo type. 17:32:18 <petern> So anything that moved to using cargo type instead of TE is missing the point. 17:32:30 <petern> TE_ is intended to be fleshed out with new ideas and effects. 17:32:44 <petern> Whatever that might be 😉 17:32:53 <andythenorth> currently FIRS just turns it all off, because then it disappears from arctic / desert town window 17:32:57 <andythenorth> which is at least nice 17:33:04 <petern> Well that's grand. 17:33:16 <petern> for passengers, TE_PASSENGERS should be set, etc... 17:33:34 <petern> TE_PASSENGERS can also be set for say tourists... 17:34:05 <andythenorth> town_growth_effect, town_growth_multiplier 17:34:10 <petern> But it looks like the code was either never implemented, or someone though it was wrong and reverted it. 17:34:16 <andythenorth> yeah passengers has passengers 17:34:29 <andythenorth> when was it reverted? 17:34:42 <petern> t->supplied[CT_PASSENGERS].new_act += MoveGoodsToStation(CT_PASSENGERS, amt, ST_TOWN, t->index, stations.GetStations()); 17:34:50 <petern> yeah, hardcoded as CT_PASSENGERS still... 17:36:40 <petern> Well I have a new project now. 17:37:40 <Xarick> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1064236946169266257/Unnamed_1950-12-06.png 17:37:40 <Xarick> 158 days 17:38:08 <petern> if (FindFirstCargoWithTownEffect(TE_FOOD) != nullptr) t->goal[TE_FOOD] = TOWN_GROWTH_DESERT; 17:38:17 <petern> That kinda does things... 17:38:43 <andythenorth> is t->supplied determined only by houses? or also industries? 17:38:47 * andythenorth could read the code 17:39:18 <petern> House production only I think. 17:39:52 <andythenorth> ah it's `t->received[TE_FOOD]` etc I need to read 17:44:57 *** Flygon has quit IRC 17:46:52 <andythenorth> ok so DeliverGoods() 17:47:48 <TallTyler> As I understand it, town_growth_multiplier was a TTDPatch thing. There was some sort of “improved” town growth algorithm that’s way too “game design” for OpenTTD. 17:47:59 <petern> Yes of course that pile of pre-dead shotgunners means an archvile is about to spawn... 17:48:02 <TallTyler> It’s described on a wiki somewhere 17:48:06 <andythenorth> petern: err...what if every cargo was just tracked in town->received rather than tracking the town effect? 17:48:14 <andythenorth> or some backwards compatible equivalent 17:48:21 <andythenorth> then expose the cargo amounts as a grf var on the town 17:48:39 <andythenorth> I know that 'how?' is a bad way to design spec 17:48:47 <andythenorth> but sometimes it's basic infrastructure needed 😛 17:56:32 <andythenorth> hmm https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/discussions/8635 17:56:38 <andythenorth> continue there? 17:57:01 <andythenorth> it's been Zorged, so I'm kind of not wanting to touch it 17:58:44 <Pruple> I think there's still a lack of clarity about what anyone's trying to achieve by extending the town spec 17:58:50 <andythenorth> + 17:59:01 <petern> "Why do you not have feature requests?" "Zorg" 17:59:16 <andythenorth> we have been here before a few times with spec 😛 17:59:31 <andythenorth> I usually frame my goals around tweaking what's possible 😛 17:59:34 <andythenorth> as it seems more likely 17:59:41 <andythenorth> but it's a bad way to get a spec 17:59:46 <petern> Yes 18:00:14 <andythenorth> working within the constraints is a game in itself 😛 18:03:30 <andythenorth> FML https://weblogs.openttd.org/openttd/2010/08/03.html#204417-704 18:03:34 <JGR> andythenorth: You don't have to read all his posts 18:03:58 <JGR> If you've got more stuff to add I'd just add it 18:04:08 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 18:04:23 <JGR> It'll get lost if it's only in here 18:04:48 <Samu> im getting API compatibility script not found on 13.0-RC1 18:04:58 <Samu> if i set API requirements to 13 18:05:02 <Samu> am i doing it wrong? 18:09:44 <andythenorth> "Peter's TownGrowthChallenge" or something 😄 https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Development/Design%20Drafts/NewGRF/Town%20Control 18:09:56 <Rubidium> Samu: it's missing in 13.0-RC1 18:10:05 <petern> Eh, delete that 18:10:14 <petern> Wasn't even my idea, heh 18:10:29 <petern> GS replace that 18:11:00 <Rubidium> Samu: but it has already been fixed in the 13 branch 18:11:11 <Samu> ah, nice 18:13:51 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest1423 18:13:52 *** Guest1423 is now known as andythenorth[d] 18:22:43 <Xarick> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1064248282014040156/Unnamed_1950-01-0115.png 18:22:43 <Xarick> Steeltown FIRS cargo info i could gather via GS 18:23:50 <andythenorth[d]> you don't need to do that 😛 18:24:00 <andythenorth[d]> you can just know what the cargos are via the compile 18:24:16 <andythenorth[d]> * certain assumptions were made 18:26:04 <Samu> CC_NOAVAILABLE feels wrong 18:26:18 <Samu> seems that there's a class that is not yet named 18:26:31 <andythenorth[d]> 🙂 18:26:34 <Samu> 1024, 2048, 4096 18:26:53 <andythenorth[d]> probably countable bulk, covered, hazardous 18:26:55 <andythenorth[d]> or something 18:26:59 <andythenorth[d]> look them up 🙂 18:28:26 <petern> <https://www.teslarati.com/wyoming-phase-out-evs-2035/> lol 'merica 18:33:30 <dP> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1064250997167362138/Screenshot_from_2023-01-15_22-25-11.png 18:33:30 <dP> 😆 18:34:13 <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/script/api/script_cargo.hpp#L26-L38 18:34:21 <Samu> are there more CC's than those? 18:34:27 <dP> gs could execute commands instantly if game didn't try to delay the server for "fairness" or smth 18:36:05 <Samu> oh, there are 18:36:06 <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/cargotype.h#L38-L52 18:36:08 <dP> having the server one or two ticks ahead doesn't seem like a big enough deal worth crippling gamescripts 18:36:31 <petern> It still needs to send them to the clients though, so still can't do a huge number. 18:36:32 <glx[d]> GS has same limitations as AIs 18:36:49 <glx[d]> because it's the same framework 18:36:56 <petern> It does, but it GS doesn't need the same limiations. 18:37:30 <dP> petern: on command is just a few bytes, it will take hundres if not more to become a problem 18:37:41 <glx[d]> but yeah GS could be less limited 18:37:58 <petern> andy wants to do 3000 🙂 18:38:29 <glx[d]> will trigger opcode limit at some point 🙂 18:39:01 <Samu> can there be more custom cargo classes between 1 << 10 and 1 << 14? 18:39:23 <Samu> FIRS seem to have set something in that interval 18:39:53 <glx[d]> I can count 4 🙂 18:44:57 <glx[d]> but the best is to look at the spec <https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Cargos#CargoClasses_.2816.29 > 18:45:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/750d89d37b372b808e616091913f7e48f6d4d0ea 18:45:07 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 18:48:26 <Samu> ah, why aren't they in openttd enums? 18:49:06 <petern> Because they're custom... 18:49:43 <Samu> but newgrfs are speccing them 18:51:51 <andythenorth[d]> no 18:52:19 <andythenorth[d]> newgrfs are using a bitmask that is conventionally defined in the spec 18:52:38 <andythenorth[d]> does OpenTTD even know about classes, other than the bitmask? 18:53:38 <Pruple> outside a few specific cases I don't think so 18:53:58 <Pruple> eg, passenger class cargos use bus stops instead of truck stops 18:55:09 <Pruple> unless you're doing some flavour thing, I don't see why AIs need to know about them either 18:55:12 <andythenorth[d]> hmm is GS writing to log a command? 18:55:20 * andythenorth[d] doesn't want to abandon GS :P 18:55:33 <andythenorth[d]> partly because I made FIRS compile one and I think that's neat 18:56:17 <andythenorth[d]> there are unexplored bits of the spec, like having GS mess with industries 18:56:59 <glx[d]> maybe 3 CC_XX need to be added 18:57:24 <glx[d]> logging is not a command andy 18:57:35 <glx[d]> you can do it as much as you want 🙂 18:58:03 <glx[d]> commands are usually what a player could do 18:58:59 <glx[d]> with an effect on the world of course 19:02:29 <petern> I just powered on my laptop... it's got Edge opened on the OpenTTD download page, showing the latested download is 1.11.1 19:02:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #10355: Change #10077: make maximum loan a positive multiple of the loan interval https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10355#issuecomment-1383226208 19:03:07 <FLHerne> sounds like you might as well sell the laptop :p 19:03:29 <petern> I don't think it's worth anything 19:05:13 <andythenorth[d]> wonder if I could write a GS that says "You have too many towns / industries, I'm taking my toys home" 19:05:37 <andythenorth[d]> if my GS is trying to do stuff like manage industry amounts and roleplay towns a bit 19:05:52 <andythenorth[d]> and player has 3k towns and 5k industries....why bother? 19:06:07 <andythenorth[d]> plausible? 19:07:27 <FLHerne> alternatively, ignore towns/industries the player isn't interested in? 19:07:47 <andythenorth[d]> how would we know? 19:07:53 <andythenorth[d]> measure presence there? 19:13:33 <Pruple> but "When you start to use >4k*4k, you can't go back" D: 19:14:19 <petern> Oh no, this trackpad doesn't support 2-finger scrolling 19:17:16 <FLHerne> andythenorth[d]: yeah, whether serviced or within the town zone of a station that's serviced or something 19:17:53 <FLHerne> although I can get behind the "just don't have 5000 pointless industries" thing 19:17:58 <petern> Hmm, did at least put an SSD in it at some point. 19:23:29 <andythenorth[d]> Pruple: official wiki? 😛 19:23:47 <Pruple> Discord channel #openttd: , same thing 19:24:11 <andythenorth[d]> I guess it's because once you've invested that long in generating the fricking map 🙂 19:24:13 <andythenorth[d]> you don't want to lose it 19:24:27 <andythenorth[d]> not that I want to tell people how to play, but eh 19:24:42 <andythenorth[d]> doesn't minecraft have some kind of infinite map thing? 19:38:55 <FLHerne> technically it's not unlimited anymore 19:39:10 <FLHerne> just so unreasonably huge that no-one could ever notice 19:55:50 <Samu> dumpinfo cargotypes 19:56:13 <Samu> doesn't mention those above 1 << 9 20:02:30 <Xarick> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1064273394884952165/Unnamed_1950-01-0116.png 20:14:44 <andythenorth[d]> some industry sets require pax / workers at secondaries? 20:20:51 <TallTyler> Some of mine, but I'm phasing that out 20:20:57 <TallTyler> It's pretty grindy 20:31:22 <glx[d]> Samu: probably because they were "added" to the spec after the introduction in openttd source, and nobody updated 20:32:21 <glx[d]> and even if there are not in the enum everything still works fine 20:32:48 <glx[d]> (internally) 20:43:54 <andythenorth[d]> ok so one useful grf thing would be the ability to force an industry to be built in x% of towns 20:44:05 <andythenorth[d]> without massively skewing the rest of the industry counts 20:44:35 <andythenorth[d]> shops, builders yards etc 20:51:47 <Samu> why isn't Xarick account logged off when I leave discord webpage? 20:54:06 <andythenorth[d]> hmm I need to tokenise all the FIRS industry IDs in my GS 20:54:17 <andythenorth[d]> maybe I can put them in table slots or something 20:54:53 <andythenorth[d]> oh I did already 😛 20:57:37 <petern> Discord accounts don't leave the server, they just get marked offline. 20:57:41 <petern> "server" 20:58:28 <Xarick> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1064287477604569108/image.png 20:58:47 <Samu> #10355 preview 20:59:13 <petern> Works for me. 20:59:26 <petern> Unless you mean it crashed after doing something. 20:59:31 <reldred> You can check out, but you can never leave. 20:59:42 <andythenorth[d]> is reload_gs a thing? 20:59:55 <reldred> *such a lovely place* 21:00:08 <andythenorth[d]> floppy disk icon -> load savegame -> ? icon -> open AI/GS debug 21:00:10 <andythenorth[d]> every time 😛 21:00:29 <Samu> let me test locally 21:00:30 <andythenorth[d]> maybe I can hotkey something 21:03:45 <andythenorth[d]> ok alt+D 21:03:48 <andythenorth[d]> opens debug 21:03:52 <andythenorth[d]> QoL improvement 21:04:34 <Samu> where do i find the local browser openttd install folder or something, wanna see if there's a crash report there 21:07:15 <andythenorth[d]> hmm still have to detect the industry type by fingerprinting cargo I think 21:07:19 <andythenorth[d]> can't just query it 21:07:34 <andythenorth[d]> lol shave that yak gud 21:08:19 <andythenorth[d]> nope, we can https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/b8a8891a8656c0482a045505e531c812c60026df 21:13:53 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 21:14:38 *** nielsm has quit IRC 21:17:52 <glx[d]> there are no crash reports for browser version (and it's somewhere in browser db I guess) 21:18:43 <glx[d]> it's just a webpage 21:19:01 <Samu> think it's the autosave, it crashes 21:19:29 <andythenorth[d]> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1064292768253497444/image.png 21:19:44 <andythenorth[d]> if I can just learn GS syntax and debugging 21:19:47 <andythenorth[d]> and stop feeling stupid 21:19:50 <andythenorth[d]> it has a lot of potential 21:20:21 <andythenorth[d]> I don't really understand the table slots model 21:20:32 <andythenorth[d]> it seems like everything is one giant dict, except when it isn't 21:20:43 <andythenorth[d]> but I can do stuff like 21:20:59 <andythenorth[d]> where I've built a big table copyin