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00:04:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 approved pull request #281: Optimise variational action2 trivial cases https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/pull/281#pullrequestreview-1368165019 00:09:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne merged pull request #281: Optimise variational action2 trivial cases https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/pull/281 00:31:10 *** bryjen_ has joined #openttd 00:32:22 *** bryjen has quit IRC 01:37:42 *** Soni has quit IRC 02:28:30 *** Soni has joined #openttd 02:49:02 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 02:55:16 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 03:02:32 *** debdog has quit IRC 03:45:10 *** keikoz has joined #openttd 04:24:22 *** felix has quit IRC 04:24:35 *** felix has joined #openttd 05:00:12 *** keikoz has quit IRC 06:08:33 <petern> Morning 06:11:24 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:42:24 <petern> Urgh, PC froze :/ 06:44:13 *** colde has quit IRC 06:44:13 *** dale has quit IRC 06:44:13 *** greeter has quit IRC 06:44:13 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 06:47:33 *** greeter has joined #openttd 06:47:33 *** dale has joined #openttd 06:47:33 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd 06:47:33 *** colde has joined #openttd 07:07:03 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 07:07:23 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 07:08:09 <andythenorth> o/ 07:09:02 <petern> Should I split my vinyl album recordings into separate tracks? 07:13:29 <andythenorth> can GPT do it? 07:18:42 <dwfreed> audacity can probably do it pretty easily 07:19:02 <dwfreed> or whatever the fork is 07:22:00 <andythenorth> AudacityGPT? 07:22:19 <andythenorth> I'd be surprised if there isn't an audio LLM somewhere 07:22:42 <andythenorth> there are only so many notes 😛 07:29:29 <petern> Looks like Tenacity and Audacium merged together and then that merged into Saucedacity, but kept the name Tenacity. Forks eh? 07:34:47 <andythenorth> which one is the LLM? 😛 07:55:00 <petern> I'm not interesting in large language models. 09:03:43 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 09:08:20 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 09:44:02 <Kuhnovic> Did everyone ever start on a clang-format file? I think we can really benefit from one, and I think it's best to develop it collectively. What's the best way to develop such a thing, github discussions? 09:50:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #10592: [Bug]: Steam launches Intel variant instead of Apple Silicon variant https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10592 09:50:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #10592: [Bug]: Steam launches Intel variant instead of Apple Silicon variant https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10592 09:52:17 <LordAro> Kuhnovic: several people have started, it doesn't generally get very far 09:52:28 <LordAro> OTTD's code is too weird for an auto formatter 09:52:31 <LordAro> too many tables too 09:52:42 <LordAro> all of the UI blocks, for instance 10:00:20 <Kuhnovic> Hmm, you have a point. And creating exceptions for all those case would be quite a pain... 10:25:33 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 10:54:23 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 10:55:32 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 11:05:45 <petern> Nearly lunch 11:21:18 <petern> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1092408480775802991/image.png 11:21:18 <petern> Oh dear 11:22:12 <TrueBrain> Owh no he didn't 11:22:30 <andythenorth> Yes 11:22:37 <andythenorth> We needed that 11:22:53 <andythenorth> Planes also petern ? 11:23:04 <petern> Yes 11:23:22 *** AJ[d] has joined #openttd 11:23:22 <AJ[d]> It looked so natural I didn't even question it :Hmmm: 11:23:36 <LordAro> i'm still not entirely sure what's different 11:25:57 *** TallTyler has joined #openttd 11:25:57 <TallTyler> Knots speed unit, I think 11:27:45 <petern> Yup 11:28:03 <LordAro> ooh 11:31:13 <petern> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1092410975736565881/image.png 11:31:13 <petern> Or something 11:35:26 <petern> Hmm, do we have settings conversion? 11:36:08 <petern> I don't want to change the order of options, just make it default to the land speed units instead of being fixed. 11:41:09 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog 12:37:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #10594: Feature: Separate rail/road and sea/air velocity units, and add knots. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10594 12:37:22 <petern> I mean, I wrote it and it works, so... 12:46:42 <TallTyler> Can land vehicles select Knots? (I can answer that myself once the preview build finishes 🙂 ) 12:48:36 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #10594: Feature: Separate rail/road and sea/air velocity units, and add knots. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10594#pullrequestreview-1368954887 13:07:46 <Eddi|zuHause> aren't sea/air knots different units? 13:12:00 *** Orang has joined #openttd 13:12:00 <Orang> They are the same unit 13:13:08 <Eddi|zuHause> just asking, because there's like 200 different "miles" they could be based on 13:15:07 <Orang> a knot is 1 nautical mile per 1 hour 13:17:23 <Orang> irrespective of what fluid the vessel is in 13:19:41 <Brickblock1> 1 nautical mile can be different tho 13:22:41 <EmperorJake> A nautical mile is based on degrees of latitude so it's actually a well-defined and useful unit 13:23:27 <Eddi|zuHause> unless the earth grows or shrinks :p 13:23:50 <blathijs> IMHO it's the only mile that's worth keeping around ;-p 13:26:14 <TallTyler> It's odd that land vehicles can use knots as their speed 13:26:40 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe they're hovercraft? :p 13:26:58 <Brickblock1> I don't think it is a problem using si is also weird most of the time 13:28:47 <Eddi|zuHause> all unit switches are weird, because the people haven't grown up with it. this is why it's so hard to switch from imperial to metric, or from farenheit to celsus, or whatever 13:29:18 <Eddi|zuHause> *celsius 13:29:50 <TallTyler> Very true 13:30:05 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 13:31:43 <andythenorth> Do hovercraft have an altimeter? 13:37:40 <petern> TallTyler: Yes, it can be prevented by removing the limit change to the setting, but as units are pretty arbitrary I didn't see the point of not allowing it. 13:37:59 <TallTyler> I'm not opposed to it, it just seemed odd 🙂 13:38:51 <petern> Plenty of things are dd 🙂 13:39:16 <TallTyler> Indeed 13:45:04 <TrueBrain> I am odd too! Does that count? 13:45:05 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 13:45:18 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 13:48:23 <pickpacket> I want my tax refund 13:48:34 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 13:49:06 <pickpacket> Planning to put £100 toward the OpenTTD project 13:59:46 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 13:59:54 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 14:04:15 <Orang> blathijs: so true! 14:05:10 <Orang> my train goes at 65 knots 14:08:08 *** Fairy has joined #openttd 14:08:08 <Fairy> we need a pixels/tick speed measurement, clearly the best option 14:08:34 <TallTyler> Does it increase if you use an extrazoom base set? 14:08:56 <Fairy> "My train has a higher resolution so it goes faster" 14:15:23 <JGR> There already is a tiles/day unit, anecdotally it doesn't seem very popular 14:18:33 <petern> I only found out about it because I added knots... 14:19:01 <TallTyler> I found it when changing it to support tiles/sec in realtime mode 14:19:24 <TallTyler> It sounds best for maximum optimization networks 14:19:39 <emilyd[m]> tiles/day makes more sense in my opinion 14:21:20 <petern> Not when daylength changes 🙂 14:22:12 <TallTyler> It's all optional in my current iteration, so people are free to keep using days/months/years, etc 14:22:21 <petern> Nice. 14:22:31 <TallTyler> But if you want to change the rate of calendar progression, you have to use real-time units 14:23:21 <TallTyler> JGR: How does increasing the interval between industry production ticks affect FIRS and its derivatives? 14:23:35 <Brickblock1> TallTyler: I would prefer not to 14:23:50 <TallTyler> I can see how it would be better for industries which stockpile boost supplies, but the calendar-based system is a bit opaque 14:24:02 <petern> I assume that means "you can't use calendar-based time units" rather than having to use real time. 14:24:34 <petern> I suppose mph and km/h are kinda real time, but... heh 14:24:50 <TallTyler> Not sure what distinction you're making, to be honest 14:25:12 <Brickblock1> petern: so is m/s 14:25:58 <petern> Yes, but I forgot to add that. 14:26:01 <TallTyler> The current implementation runs the economy at the same rate no matter the calendar scaling, so the only way to describe the economy in calendar terms is to keep the two perfectly in sync 14:27:55 <petern> TallTyler: the context was someone prefers tiles/day, which changes to tiles/sec, and then "you have to use real-time units" -- in this case it could be understood that tiles/sec is the only real time unit, and none of the others are usable. 14:28:27 <petern> So not making any distinction, just clarifying 🙂 14:28:38 <Brickblock1> I don't think there would be huge problems having them decoupled, cities skylines practically has two different speeds, one for simulation and one for date 14:29:03 <TallTyler> Oh yeah, thanks for that 🙂 14:29:28 <petern> I.. just made a cup of tea. And left it in the kitchen... 14:29:39 <TallTyler> Right, you can't use "tiles/day" because that's calendar based, it would be "tiles/sec" instead, but all the other units (mph, kph, etc) are still available 14:29:42 <LordAro> ooh, tea 14:44:04 <Eddi|zuHause> <TallTyler> JGR: How does increasing the interval between industry production ticks affect FIRS and its derivatives? <-- there once was a huge discussion about ECS vectors and daylength being incompatible, because ECS counted ticks in some way 14:45:08 <Eddi|zuHause> it was a long time ago, and i don't know which version of daylength was affected 14:47:04 <JGR> The frequency adjustments that I'm doing are about the production scaling setting, not day length 14:47:38 <JGR> So it's more economy scaling than calendar scaling 14:48:06 <TallTyler> Right, that's my next project -- I'm working on PRing it at the same time as my calendar progress speed proposal, so I can cover both use cases for the traditional daylength implementation 14:48:18 <Eddi|zuHause> daylength is just a special case of scaling 14:50:14 *** Compu has joined #openttd 14:52:05 <JGR> It's the frequency of CBM_IND_PRODUCTION_256_TICKS which is adjusted 14:52:33 <JGR> Depending on the selected scaling it may be more or less frequent than 256 ticks 14:52:46 <TallTyler> Yeah, I'm looking at your commits for it 🙂 14:54:20 <TallTyler> I see why this frequency should be adjusted for callback-based industries which use stockpiles, so they'll consume less often 14:55:56 <TallTyler> I'm just curious how it affects FIRS-derived industry sets that look for a delivery within the last calendar month and track that in a permanent register rather than a stockpile. Can less frequent production ticks screw up its status check, and stay in the wrong production state for too long, for example? 14:57:46 <TallTyler> In my NoDaylength implementation, production stats are still tracked per minute (vanilla month length) so if my math is right, I can't go above 4x the current frequency, or not every month will get a production tick at all 14:57:47 <petern> That should just be "last economy month" 14:58:36 <petern> The only stats are "current month" and "last month" right? Whether that's calendar or economy is up to you 🙂 15:00:05 <TallTyler> I haven't looked at FIRS code in a long time, but if I recall correctly I think it look directly at the date. Maybe we should ask andythenorth 😛 15:02:02 <petern> https://github.com/andythenorth/firs/blob/2de50018f899254e396e06486ce609eb71cfabec/src/templates/produce_primary.pynml 15:02:14 <petern> Seems to suggest "27 production cycles" 15:03:48 <TallTyler> Ah, that's perfect 15:04:23 <TallTyler> I think I last looked at generated NML code from FIRS 1 or something, that someone on the forum sent me 15:06:40 *** keikoz has joined #openttd 15:07:43 <pickpacket> Tax return within a week! Wohoo! 16:17:52 *** birdjj has quit IRC 16:21:33 *** birdjj has joined #openttd 16:23:04 *** Artea has quit IRC 16:23:51 *** Artea has joined #openttd 16:32:07 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 16:35:41 <andythenorth> seems I left detailed notes to myself there 😛 16:40:54 <andythenorth> so FIRS would have incorrect text if the economy speed was changed relative to displayed dates 16:41:04 <andythenorth> [stuff and things] 16:49:40 <petern> If it says "months" yes, but... not a big drama. 16:50:13 <petern> It would be a larger issue if it went by calendar date, which would mean that daylength change affects how it works. 16:51:00 <andythenorth> in principle we could have some text formatter that can scale time units 😛 16:51:13 <andythenorth> give it X ticks or cycles or something 16:51:37 <petern> Not impossible. 16:52:03 <TallTyler> We'll probably need to give NewGRF authors access to the the new string codes I created 16:52:48 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 16:53:16 <TallTyler> There are some automatic unit selectors with unit conversion, like `{UNITS_DAYS_OR_SECONDS}`, as well as a custom replacer `{RTS "value in calendar time" "value in real time"}`, typically used like `{RTS months minutes}` 16:54:00 <TallTyler> Economy scaling is problematic because of rounding down to zero 16:54:40 <TallTyler> Zero house production means small towns often produce nothing at low scales, while if I use a minimum of 1 it doesn't get scaled down enough 16:54:57 <TallTyler> It'll be a similar issue with costs, I think 16:55:20 <petern> Ideally it would just be one value, requiring NewGRF to provide both calendar or real time means they need to know too much, I think. 17:09:33 <andythenorth> so....station overbuilding 17:09:36 <andythenorth> is that a config setting? 17:09:40 <andythenorth> I can't see one for it 17:09:48 <TallTyler> It shouldn't be 17:10:08 <TallTyler> Is it not working for you? 17:10:32 <andythenorth> no 17:10:52 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1092496453290704978/image.png 17:11:04 <andythenorth> I can't see any recent PRs touching this, so I assume it's user error 17:11:28 <TallTyler> It works for me on current master, so might be you? Or NewGRF somehow? 17:12:00 <andythenorth> works in 13.0 official build 17:12:01 <andythenorth> for me 17:12:12 <TallTyler> Actually, I get the error if the tile already exists in the right direction 17:12:12 <andythenorth> same cfg 17:14:50 <TallTyler> Yeah, something must have changed, I can't overbuild in the same direction either 17:15:49 <TallTyler> Probably https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9852 17:21:53 <andythenorth> our environment isn't very amenable to automated regression testing 17:22:42 <JGR> This change was deliberate in the PR, it wasn't accidental 17:24:38 <andythenorth> reviewing is hard 17:24:47 <andythenorth> so many corners to think around 17:24:49 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 17:24:49 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 17:31:42 *** tokai has quit IRC 17:54:32 <FLHerne> that seems like a bad change 17:56:15 <FLHerne> overbuilding station tiles is a *very* common action for 'diorama' players 17:56:19 <TrueBrain> Playwright for OpenTTD when andythenorth ? 🙂 17:56:35 <FLHerne> also, why make it hard to do something that's now free 17:57:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg opened issue #10595: [Bug]: Localisation settings - misleading tab title that specifies measurement units not localisation https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10595 18:01:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #10594: Feature: Separate rail/road and sea/air velocity units, and add knots. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10594 18:03:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #10594: Feature: Separate rail/road and sea/air velocity units, and add knots. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10594#pullrequestreview-1369534158 18:06:00 <andythenorth> is Playwright the new Selenium? 18:06:58 <TrueBrain> has been for ... counts on fingers .. many years now 18:07:09 <andythenorth> some 18:08:05 <andythenorth> can it click on things in WASM? 😛 18:08:14 <andythenorth> without needing exact screen coords? 😛 18:08:23 <andythenorth> hmm don't we have a regressions AI? 18:13:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #10594: Feature: Separate rail/road and sea/air velocity units, and add knots. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10594 18:16:53 <andythenorth> oops, pushed a tag, but not the related commits 18:17:00 <andythenorth> auto-deploy failed 😛 18:17:04 <andythenorth> GG WP 18:18:36 <TrueBrain> how do you push a tag without the commits? That is ... weird, at least, in git-talk 😛 18:18:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on issue #10595: [Bug]: Localisation settings - misleading tab title that specifies measurement units not localisation https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10595 18:18:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler closed issue #10595: [Bug]: Localisation settings - misleading tab title that specifies measurement units not localisation https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10595 18:18:46 <TrueBrain> you tag a commit, and push that ... so weird 😛 18:23:38 <andythenorth> what happens when the rule is to push tags explicitly? e.g. `git push origin 10.10.5` 18:24:11 <andythenorth> bu the previous few commits aren't pushed 18:25:01 <andythenorth> genuine question, as that's what I did, and auto-deploy didn't work, and that seems the most likely explanation 🙂 18:38:23 <TrueBrain> a tag is always attached to a commit; and a commit has a parent 18:38:29 <TrueBrain> so if you push a tag, you also push the commit it tags 18:38:33 <TrueBrain> and its parent, and the parent of the parent, etc 18:39:03 <TrueBrain> but who knows what your setup looks like, so meh 😛 18:40:51 <andythenorth> I have never encountered this failure mode before 😛 18:40:58 <andythenorth> but pushing the commits fixed the issue 18:44:38 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 18:45:43 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 18:47:51 <TrueBrain> good! 18:49:36 <andythenorth> now what shall we do? 😛 18:50:35 <TrueBrain> same thing as we do every night pinky! 18:51:09 <andythenorth> play OpenTTD? 19:01:53 <petern> Sit here wondering what to do... 19:04:14 <TallTyler> If you're bored you could test/review #10519 😉 19:15:26 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 19:28:12 <dP> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1092531016071127100/ukhFwAAeFyr2qceI.webm 20:11:14 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 20:11:58 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 20:14:16 *** nielsm has quit IRC 20:14:16 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 20:16:07 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 20:32:16 *** lobstarooo___ has joined #openttd 20:40:10 <andythenorth> petern: https://youtu.be/T_5ZYJBgQyM?t=327 20:40:17 *** lobstarooo___ has quit IRC 20:43:35 *** gelignite has quit IRC 20:49:42 *** keikoz has quit IRC 21:25:51 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 21:25:52 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 21:41:51 <petern> Already watched that one 🙂 21:42:34 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 22:35:19 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:42:49 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 23:45:02 *** gnu_jj has joined #openttd 23:55:22 *** Flygon has quit IRC