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00:24:02 *** Extrems has quit IRC 00:47:21 *** Extrems has joined #openttd 02:19:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] tyrone-sudeium commented on issue #11048: [Bug]: Sound non-functional in nightly linux-generic builds https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/11048 02:24:53 <Gadg8eer[m]> <DorpsGek> "[OpenTTD/OpenTTD] tyrone-sudeium..." <- Huh. So that's why I wasn't getting sound in JGRPP on my Steam Deck. 02:26:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gadg8eer commented on issue #11048: [Bug]: Sound non-functional in nightly linux-generic builds https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/11048 02:37:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] tyrone-sudeium commented on issue #11048: [Bug]: Sound non-functional in nightly linux-generic builds https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/11048 02:40:29 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 02:43:51 *** debdog has quit IRC 03:10:45 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog 03:39:10 *** keikoz has joined #openttd 03:46:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #11050: Codechange: use span of StringParameter within StringParameters https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11050 04:17:44 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 04:40:35 *** bigyihsuan has joined #openttd 04:40:35 <bigyihsuan> JGR: same, but in general i wish go's types were just a teensie bit better 04:40:45 <bigyihsuan> minimum add in tagged unions and i'll be golden 04:41:14 <bigyihsuan> (though you can mimic tagged unions using interfaces and a dummy "tag" method, but that feels extremely cursed) 04:41:31 <bigyihsuan> (or having a field in the struct that determines the type) 04:41:47 *** nielsm has quit IRC 04:41:50 <bigyihsuan> (or having a "fat union" struct that embeds all the kinds of struct that it can be) 04:46:09 <bigyihsuan> (or a fat union struct that embeds all possible types that it can be, and use an iota-enum to switch between them) 04:46:30 <bigyihsuan> oh how i wish go had a slightly better type system, i'm pretty happy with everything else 05:04:12 *** keikoz has quit IRC 08:11:48 <petern> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1120989431827009646/image.png 08:11:48 <petern> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1120989432162549782/image.png 08:11:48 <petern> Argh, now I'm being complained at because of this... 08:12:12 <TrueBrain> unacceptable ... stop making fonts look nice 08:13:04 <petern> Don't think the font is changed, just looks different due to scaling because I didn't crop exactly the same area. 08:13:48 <petern> The "Info" button changed from a teal to cyan, and the "Success" is slightly darker. 08:13:51 <TrueBrain> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1120989951987810334/image.png 08:13:51 <TrueBrain> You are right; funny how much worse that effect is in the Discord preview: 08:14:44 <petern> I think it's fixable but means I need to recompile bootstrap during build instead of using the defaults :/ 08:14:54 <TrueBrain> manually installing the whole Linux release pipeline to test sound .. ugh, this is dreadful 08:15:08 <TrueBrain> petern: change is hard 😛 08:15:34 <petern> The issue is "I" changed it, so I should put it back. 08:15:45 <petern> Yeah, updating frameworks is not that simple 🙂 08:16:06 <TrueBrain> you should have sold it as a "new look, better for the eye" 08:16:06 <TrueBrain> 😛 08:18:02 <petern> Difficult when I'd not even mentioned the updates or changes and the first thing is a complaint that it's wrong... 08:19:40 <TrueBrain> let's see if SDL wants to do its job when you actually give it header-files to compile against 08:20:04 <TrueBrain> SDL is a bit silly .. it dynamically loads libraries, but it needs the header file during compile to do that 08:20:20 <TrueBrain> guess they didn't want to vendor the header-files 08:21:38 <LordAro> i figured that's what it was doing 08:22:31 <TrueBrain> just proving I am right takes ~30 minutes compiling 😛 08:23:45 <LordAro> although i can't see where we're compiling SDL in the workflow though 08:23:54 <TrueBrain> vcpkg does 08:23:57 <LordAro> ah 08:24:35 <LordAro> in which case i'm definitely looking in the wrong place, because i'm looking at "yum install SDL2-devel" 08:24:49 *** aethe has joined #openttd 08:24:50 <aethe> i (tyrone-sudeium on github btw) spent a bunch of time playing around with this issue today. keen to see what you make of it 08:24:54 <TrueBrain> LordAro: maybe update your local copy once in a while 😛 08:25:21 <TrueBrain> aethe: if my compile ever finishes, I can tell you if I am right 😄 08:25:46 <TrueBrain> as vcpkg uses a static version of SDL, I am not completely sure it is going to do the right thing .. 08:25:51 <TrueBrain> it does for X11 .. but yeah ... 08:26:11 <aethe> my compiles were super quick but yum took an absolute eternity to run in the `manylinux2014_x86_64` container 08:26:12 <LordAro> TrueBrain: aha, i still had my 13.2-changelog branch checked out :D 08:28:01 <pickpacket> uh. I can't find any tags in the repo (locally). 08:28:38 <pickpacket> they've all disappeared, and I don't get them back with git pull --tags 08:28:53 <petern> git fetch upstream --tags 08:28:55 <TrueBrain> aethe: yum is pretty quick here. It is the python3 that is the problem 😛 08:29:31 <petern> Oh, probably s/upstream/origin/ as that's my workflow 🙂 08:29:46 <pickpacket> petern: same for me, but didn't work 08:30:04 <pickpacket> I *had* all the tags up until 13.1, but they've just disappeared 08:30:11 <TrueBrain> I have too many build folders .. lol ... 08:30:17 <petern> Disappeared from where? Does 'git tag' not list anything? 08:31:02 <pickpacket> no, it doesn't 08:31:07 <pickpacket> Oh!!! I know! 08:31:53 <aethe> could be useful to publish a docker image that is built off `manylinux2014_x86_64` as a base but does the yum stuff and the python stuff. that way an environment for compiling linux-generic is just a docker pull and vcpkg install away 08:32:07 <TrueBrain> all things are cached on GitHub anyway 08:32:12 <TrueBrain> and the amount of time we do this manually .. 08:32:16 <TrueBrain> not sure that is worth the trouble, honestly 🙂 08:32:51 <pickpacket> I forked the repo to work on beards for manager faces, and then I set my fork as upstream 08:34:35 <TrueBrain> okay, jack and pulse works 08:34:39 <TrueBrain> but alsa doesn't show up .. 08:34:48 <TrueBrain> seems CentOS alsa is not compatible with vcpkg SDL 😛 08:35:10 <TrueBrain> but it is also dragging all those libraries in now .. which was not the idea 08:35:13 <TrueBrain> as that drags in X11 08:35:14 <TrueBrain> ugh 08:35:16 <petern> Weird 08:35:34 <TrueBrain> I have been down this path before, and I hate it 😛 08:35:56 <petern> Is there a way to pull in headers without actually building the libs... if that's what SDL wants. 08:36:36 <TrueBrain> I first need to check if this didn't happen accidentially because I updated fluidsynth while at it 08:36:54 <TrueBrain> as you know .. I tend to do 10 things at once .. smart ... 😛 08:38:38 <TrueBrain> as ldd tells me, it too was dragging in a lot of shit 😄 08:39:46 <TrueBrain> so possibly SDL is doing the right thing, but fluidsynth might not .. which means I just need to compile fluidsynth before installing the headers 08:39:59 <LordAro> lol 08:40:01 <TrueBrain> which would mean a restart of this docker ... and other 30 minutes will pass 😛 😄 08:40:22 <TrueBrain> these are the moments I am tempted to buy a new PC 08:40:40 <TrueBrain> (I have a 8700K .. I have nothing to complain about .. but it could be faster!!!) 08:40:42 <petern> My AA rechargeables all seem to have a knack of being discharged at the same time, despite only using them individually. 08:41:24 <TrueBrain> in the meantime, let's play the game: how much % is cached today 08:41:37 <TrueBrain> 45% cached 08:41:51 <TrueBrain> that is really good 🙂 08:41:53 <petern> I too have an 8700K. Apparently there's much faster these days :/ 08:42:07 <TrueBrain> yeah, one of the newer AMDs would compile a lot faster 😛 08:42:13 <LordAro> 6600K here 08:42:18 <TrueBrain> 80% of BaNaNaS activity is 13.3 .. which means ... 20% is not 😛 08:42:19 <petern> But, ew, AMD. 08:42:21 <LordAro> and also signs that the hardware is dying 08:42:37 <TrueBrain> 13.1 and 13.0 combined make up for another 5% 08:42:40 <TrueBrain> 5% by latest JGRPP 08:42:47 <TrueBrain> and rest is all old shitty versions 😛 08:43:24 <TrueBrain> over the last 24 hours, UK was #3 in downloads 08:43:37 <TrueBrain> also, 230GB in a day transfered ... 08:44:20 <TrueBrain> okay, without fluidsynth this is doing exactly what I would expect it to do, and sound works 08:44:43 <TrueBrain> owh, alsa is working, but it is "asound" ofc 08:45:15 <TrueBrain> there are two other backends SDL support .. `sndio` and `libaudio` .. but I just don't know what that actually is in Yum language 😛 08:45:29 <TrueBrain> so I am doing jack / pulse / alsa for now 08:45:33 <TrueBrain> I think that covers most systems, not? 08:46:27 <aethe> should do, yes. even jack is a bit obscure for most 08:47:17 <debdog> isn't there a new one around? pretty popular? 08:47:54 <debdog> pipewire? 08:48:13 <aethe> if you speak pulse or jack, you speak pipewire 😉 08:48:23 <debdog> ok 08:50:36 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i think these https://sndio.org & https://www.radscan.com/nas.html 08:50:42 <LordAro> the latter took some tracking 08:50:59 <LordAro> "NAS 1.9.5 (stable) is now available. This version includes some patches submitted over the last 9 years or so." 08:57:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #11048: [Bug]: Sound non-functional in nightly linux-generic builds https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/11048 09:01:09 <TrueBrain> time to install again .. but I got other stuff to do, so a PR will take a bit more time 🙂 But it works locally, at least! 09:01:45 <aethe> nice! curious to see what you did, and if it's smarter than my super blunt approach of just running `yum install pulseaudio-libs-devel` etc lol 09:05:32 <TrueBrain> it isn't; but fluidsynth ruined your approach 🙂 09:17:12 <petern> Alsa should be enough , it'll talk to pulse/jack anyway 09:17:37 <petern> But maybe pulse is nice to have anyway 09:17:54 <TrueBrain> it is one line to enable pulse and jack, so it is fine 😛 09:18:16 <petern> Jack is not ideal tbh, it's not meant for gaming 09:18:45 <petern> But thats user config I guess 🙂 09:19:17 <aethe> it is definitely better to support pulse directly, since `pulseaudio-alsa` / `pipewire-alsa` are not necessarily always bundled with pulse / pipewire 09:20:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #11051: Fix: [CI] enable audio (alsa / jack / pulse) for generic Linux builds https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11051 09:20:15 <TrueBrain> still locally compiling, but I think this should work. Maybe aethe can test it too in the meantime 09:20:52 <LordAro> apparently SDL2 does have native pipewire support 09:23:01 <aethe> TrueBrain: can do. though `yum` is gonna take 20 minutes to do that haha. no idea why it hates my machine so much 09:23:22 <TrueBrain> LordAro: but pipewire isn't in this old CentOS system 😛 09:24:04 <aethe> we have the same problem if we wanted to enable wayland in sdl, right? the centos too ancient for the devel libs? 09:24:13 <TrueBrain> Wayland works fine 09:24:43 <TrueBrain> okay, compile fininshed, audio is working fine, so this should be good to go 09:25:22 <TrueBrain> was surprised WSLg also forwards audio 😛 09:27:43 <TrueBrain> fluidsynth doesn't work, can't find soundfonts 09:27:43 <TrueBrain> hmm 09:28:09 <LordAro> TrueBrain: not with that attitude 09:28:12 <TrueBrain> ah, yes, 150MB, not going to embed that 😛 09:28:28 <TrueBrain> after installing a soundfont, even music works 09:29:13 <TrueBrain> funny, changing soundsets doesn;'t work till you close the Game Options window 09:29:16 <TrueBrain> that was unexpected 🙂 09:36:56 <TrueBrain> ah, yes, on Steam we do add soundfonts, but as a secondary package .. that makes sense 🙂 09:40:29 <aethe> there _are_ small soundfonts, but they tend to sound pretty bad haha 09:40:46 <aethe> we even found one that was only 7 kilobytes once. but it pretty much sounds like chiptunes 09:43:27 <aethe> another project i contribute to, midi support is super important for their app so as a last resort fallback they embedded a project that emulates an old Yamaha YM2608 FM synthesizer, all in software. that way they have a reasonable (but not great) fallback in case all other midi drivers fail 09:44:16 <LordAro> chiptune TTD music sounds like it would be amazing 09:44:43 <Gadg8eer[m]> LordAro: Seconded. 09:48:03 <aethe> if you want to experience the majesty of 7kb soundfont openttd yourself, here's the sf2 LOL https://musical-artifacts.com/artifacts/806 10:02:08 <aethe> aethe: so much for 20 minutes. 40 minutes later and it's still going 10:10:13 *** merni has quit IRC 10:11:08 <petern> Hmm, how does one select soundfonts with fluidsynth... 10:11:34 <aethe> `-m fluidsynth:soundfont=path/to/soundfont.sf2` 10:12:04 <petern> With WSL installing fluidsynth installed a 6MB sf2 by default, which is ... not great but maybe better than 7KB 🙂 10:12:59 <petern> Cool, that's... interesting. 10:13:29 <aethe> you trying the 7kb masterpiece? 10:13:44 <aethe> the title screen actually sounds alright imo but some of the other tracks, oof 10:13:46 <petern> Yes. As a synth-nerd, I love it 😄 10:14:16 <petern> Percussion is not its strong point. 10:16:14 <petern> Sawyer's Tune has no percussion, sounds great. 10:19:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #11051: Fix: [CI] enable audio (alsa / jack / pulse) for generic Linux builds https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11051#pullrequestreview-1490363107 10:21:45 <aethe> TrueBrain: confirmed, works for me. though I noticed the binary has swollen up to 249MB, did it do that for you too? the build from my workflow earlier today was only 69MB 10:22:37 <petern> Oh, I just found the demo songs on my JV-1080. 10:22:53 <petern> "1080 Rave" ... such cheese 10:32:36 <petern> Maybe breakfast 11:16:26 <TrueBrain> aethe: After cpack it is only 55 for me. Before that time the binary is not stripped 11:17:51 <aethe> this was after cpack. the tar.xz is still 57MB but inside it is a 249MB binary, at least for me 11:18:12 <aethe> could be something else went wrong on my end 11:21:54 <TrueBrain> Via docker we really should get the same result .. odd 11:23:27 <aethe> something to watch out for anyway. if the github action doesn't produce that result then we're definitely clear 11:32:46 <glx[d]> With `CMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=RelWithDebInfo` ? 11:34:52 <glx[d]> Anyway binary size should increase a little (SDL trying to load more libs) 11:35:49 <TrueBrain> it is in the order of kilobytes 11:35:52 <TrueBrain> not even megabytes 😛 11:36:02 <TrueBrain> ` 55M Jun 21 11:23 openttd` 11:36:14 <TrueBrain> and before stripping the binary is 557MB 11:36:21 <TrueBrain> so no clue what you exactly build there aethe 😛 11:36:36 <aethe> something cursed 11:36:53 <TrueBrain> final .tar.xz is just 19MiB 11:37:10 <TrueBrain> let's hope the CI will agree tonight 🙂 11:37:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #11051: Fix: [CI] enable audio (alsa / jack / pulse) for generic Linux builds https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11051 11:37:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #11048: [Bug]: Sound non-functional in nightly linux-generic builds https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/11048 11:37:27 <aethe> glx[d]: `cmake .. -DCMAKE_TOOLCHAIN_FILE=/vcpkg/scripts/buildsystems/vcpkg.cmake -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=RelWithDebInfo -DOPTION_PACKAGE_DEPENDENCIES=ON` 11:37:38 <aethe> i think it's probably something in my vcpkg 11:37:59 <TrueBrain> dockers should be reproducible 😄 😛 11:38:11 <TrueBrain> anyway, it works \o/ 11:38:16 <TrueBrain> that is the more important part of the story 🙂 11:38:52 <TrueBrain> so I have a 2FA on a mobile of which the screen is broken, which I need to login to somewhere that doesn't have any decent 2FA recovery mechanism .. 11:39:09 <TrueBrain> sadly, I never enabled the developer mode on that mobile, so adb doesn't work .. I don't have an USB-B -> HDMI adapter ... 11:39:21 <TrueBrain> what other shitty ways can I find to get this 2FA from that mobile 😛 11:40:28 <glx[d]> No 2FA backup system ? 11:40:41 <TrueBrain> back then that didnt exist 11:40:45 <TrueBrain> as Google didnt allow it 11:40:50 <TrueBrain> they changed their mind now, ofc, but .. yeah .. 11:41:12 <glx[d]> I mean SMS or backup codes 11:42:19 <TrueBrain> no, they don't offer any of that shit 11:42:33 <TrueBrain> it is not the best 2FA implementation out there 😛 11:49:16 <pickpacket> When I buy Exclusive Transport Rights it seems some other player can go and buy it right afterwards and thereby trump my purchase. Is this intended? 11:49:56 <pickpacket> The expected behaviour -- to me at least -- is that when I buy the rights I have them for a year or until I go bankrupt, whichever comes first 11:54:49 <pickpacket> Otherwise it turns into a bit of a chicken race. Player A spends £X on rights, then right after player B spends £X on the same rights. The end result is that both spent £X within seconds of each other but B now has the rights for a year 12:03:59 <pickpacket> Maybe this is enough to fix it? https://lounge.warmedal.se/uploads/b82be23c7a697ca1/fix_exclusive_rights.txt 12:04:43 <pickpacket> The idea is that you then can't purchase if there's still time left on the current exclusive rights contract, whomever may hold it atm (even if it's you) 12:07:55 <pickpacket> Or this: https://lounge.warmedal.se/uploads/6fa0382892da2103/fix_exclusive_rights_alt.txt 12:12:26 *** fooxie has joined #openttd 12:12:55 *** fooxie has quit IRC 12:18:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know about "intended", but it is known that it works that way 12:21:02 <Eddi|zuHause> but imagine this situation: someone with a giant stack of money goes through the whole town list and purchases all rights. now none of the competitors have a chance to earn any money, even if their individual smaller stacks of money would suffice to buy back the rights in their core territories 12:22:55 <Eddi|zuHause> (also, getting exclusive rights should probably throw a news message) 12:24:05 <pickpacket> it does through a news message :) 12:24:34 <glx[d]> nobody reads the news messages 🙂 12:24:36 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i played multiplayer maybe twice 12:24:49 <Eddi|zuHause> in like 20 years 12:24:51 <pickpacket> I do 12:25:02 <pickpacket> though I turn off all that aren't relevant to me 12:25:50 <Eddi|zuHause> did we ever fix the news messages being blocked while the ticker runs? 12:27:06 <pickpacket> Eddi|zuHause: Imagine this scenario then: someone with a huge stack of money buys exclusive rights in the three four towns your operation is centered in. You have enough money to buy them back, but only to see them bought back again by that player right away 12:27:08 <LordAro> i think so 12:27:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i wrote a patch for that, but i don't remember if it was included 12:28:14 <pickpacket> If I have the money to buy rights *once* I can preemptively do so in my cities, but that won't help me at all if someone else can buy them anyway 12:29:00 <Eddi|zuHause> pickpacket: yes, but to you rather want to sit there unable to do anything, or sit there having the possibility to influence things by talking to other players? 12:29:32 <pickpacket> what do you mean? 12:30:10 <Gadg8eer[m]> There's a chat in MP games. 12:30:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, you could ask other players to buy exclusive rights in your competitor's cities, so he has to spend his pile of money there 12:30:16 <Gadg8eer[m]> I think that might be it. 12:30:33 <pickpacket> Gadg8eer[m]: I know about the chat :) 12:30:43 <Gadg8eer[m]> lol sorry :P 12:31:17 <pickpacket> Eddi|zuHause: or the big competitor already has to do that pre-emptively if they suspect they'll be dog-piled out of existence otherwise 12:31:30 <Gadg8eer[m]> Then um... I think you might be playing without enough rules or with too competitive players. 12:32:24 <Gadg8eer[m]> That said, turning off exclusive transport rights would be good for MP mode. 12:32:39 <Eddi|zuHause> pickpacket: dunno, i believe the "once bought, you cannot buy again" approach will lead to worse griefing 12:32:53 <pickpacket> Gadg8eer[m]: highly competitive play may be the point for some ;) But if I play with less competitive players this wouldn't be an issue either way 12:33:19 <pickpacket> Eddi|zuHause: possibly. Could also be the opposite 12:34:35 <Gadg8eer[m]> Too easy to abuse exclusive transport rights, competitive or not, now that I think about it. Probably better to be able to turn that feature off in MP and let players sabotage each other in ways that take more effort so it can at least be entertaining that way instead of happening with a single button press. 12:35:22 <Eddi|zuHause> pickpacket: one approach would be to alter the cost by the amount of economic activity of the competitors in the city 12:36:04 <Eddi|zuHause> so if you have a strong foothold in the city, buying back the rights will be significantly cheaper than the other player trying to sabotage your core business 12:36:25 <Gadg8eer[m]> That could be done? I'm no expert on competitive play, I mostly play with tons of GRFs to make things look cool and realistic. 12:37:51 <Eddi|zuHause> lots of things can be done... 12:39:00 <Gadg8eer[m]> Fair enough, but I've technically been around since the latter days of TTDPatch and have been told no to features way back when unless I was willing to implement them myself. 12:39:19 <Gadg8eer[m]> Supposedly because they're too complex to implement. 12:39:59 <Eddi|zuHause> that's still mostly true 12:40:11 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 12:40:30 <Eddi|zuHause> features don't simply materialize out of thin air just because you wish for them 12:40:41 <Eddi|zuHause> someone(tm) has to implement them 12:41:04 <pickpacket> Eddi|zuHause: that’s one approach of course. But intuitively I think it’s very odd that my contract can be rescinded by another player. A more ”realistic” approach could be that several players can have ”exclusive” rights at the same time 12:41:11 <Eddi|zuHause> and there's little to no incentive for that someone(tm) to be anyone else but you 12:41:53 <Eddi|zuHause> pickpacket: wouldn't be very "exclusive" then 12:42:49 <Gadg8eer[m]> Since then the only person I've successfully managed to ask for new features is JGR. I mean, I get that its difficult, but in 2007 asking for a new feature out of the possible features was like talking to a brick wall. Everything that was, at the time, easy, was already done. At least saying yes sometimes, instead of never, makes newbies more patient with getting "no" for an answer if it really is difficult. 12:42:49 <Gadg8eer[m]> It wasn't until they implemented canals that that started to change, I guess. 12:42:55 <Eddi|zuHause> pickpacket: it could come with a requirement to fulfill some service within the exclusive year, and then it would be blocked for 10 years if you don't fulfill it 12:43:33 <pickpacket> Eddi|zuHause: that wouldn’t at all stop someone from buying the rights to starve out another company 12:44:21 <Eddi|zuHause> if you starve out within one year, you probably have a bad company 12:44:27 <Gadg8eer[m]> Reverse it? Ned to deliver mail and/or passengers in a certain amount to be eligible for exclusive transport rights? 12:46:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Gadg8eer[m]: at no point in time was it ever true that "all the easy features were already done" 12:46:50 <pickpacket> Eddi|zuHause: well if you think of that way then buying rights for grift purposes is only a marginal annoyance more than an actual problem 12:47:17 <pickpacket> I think I need to do a writeup of this and post on the forum 12:47:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Gadg8eer[m]: just go through github and look for the tag "good first issue" 12:47:37 <Gadg8eer[m]> Was literally told "historical buildings like in Sim City 4" were "too difficult". 12:47:53 <Gadg8eer[m]> That was before game scripts and NewObjects. 12:49:02 <Gadg8eer[m]> So now, yes, if you convert all other GRF towns into newobjects, you accomplish basically the same thing, but back then? "We don't want to". 12:49:10 <Eddi|zuHause> neither of those is an easy feature 12:49:32 <Gadg8eer[m]> No, but the hard features were the only ones that people had left to want at that time. 12:50:05 <Gadg8eer[m]> Multiplayer wasn't even possible in OpenTTD or TTDPatch for a whole decade. 12:50:12 <Gadg8eer[m]> So this whole conversation would have been a moot point. 12:50:36 <Eddi|zuHause> what? even the original TT had multiplayer 12:51:21 <Gadg8eer[m]> Yes, but it used dial-up. 12:51:38 <Gadg8eer[m]> If you had broadband internet, no MP. 12:51:54 <Gadg8eer[m]> And TTDPatch was legally incapable of fixing that. 12:52:10 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it used a "null modem cable" (effectively a serial cable) 12:52:12 <Gadg8eer[m]> So it wasn't until AFTER OpenTTD was a thing that MP came back. 12:52:15 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD had UDP-based network since the day it was launched, all the way back to 2004 😛 12:52:31 <TrueBrain> so I guess the "or" part is "either of the two" 12:52:34 <TrueBrain> as one of them wasn't 😛 12:52:38 <petern> This is so weird 🙂 12:52:50 <jfs-> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1121060159255498793/image.png 12:52:50 <jfs-> TTD (DOS) can actually play over IPX network 12:52:57 <TrueBrain> I miss IPX/SPX 12:53:00 <TrueBrain> that was such an easy protocol 12:53:09 <TrueBrain> Novell is the best 🙂 12:53:19 <Gadg8eer[m]> I never said OpenTTD didn't have MP, but it wasn't used because TTDPatch had more features at the time. 12:53:34 <Gadg8eer[m]> Most people played with the patch. 12:53:35 <Eddi|zuHause> you didn't say that at all 12:54:22 <jfs-> and as far as I remember, on Windows 98 you could also use VPN or VPN-like software that let you tunnel IPX over internet 12:54:47 <XarothBrook> TTD Multiplayer brings back fond memories. 12:54:50 <Gadg8eer[m]> That's probably true, but I played TTDPatch on XP. 12:55:01 <Gadg8eer[m]> So did most people. 12:55:08 <petern> That's a strange way of spelling "oh, I was wrong" 12:55:58 <jfs-> anyway, what was this discussion about? 12:56:03 <petern> Nothing much. 12:56:11 <TrueBrain> Someone was wrong on the Internet 🙂 12:56:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it was whining about "if you want the feature, implement it yourself" 12:57:01 <TrueBrain> meh; we have the forums for that 12:57:07 <Gadg8eer[m]> All I remembered is I couldn't use MP in TTDPatch because we had broadband and I'd never heard of a VPN at the time so I never tried that. Please don't dwell on me misremembering stuff. 12:57:23 <petern> There's reddit... oh wait no there isn't 🙂 12:57:34 <TrueBrain> owh snap 12:58:13 <Gadg8eer[m]> Yeah, and I was insta-perma-banned from the forums 3 years ago for causing drama. The less I say about that the better. 12:58:28 <petern> I can't think why. 12:58:40 <discord_user_03329cf> Oh hey 12:58:46 <Gadg8eer[m]> The convo was about disabling exclusive transport rights. 12:59:12 <Gadg8eer[m]> If you want to stick to that, fine. Stop picking apart every little thing I say on purpose. 12:59:56 <discord_user_03329cf> Look who it is 👀 13:00:09 <petern> Nobody is. It's okay be wrong, but doubling down on it is weird. 13:00:38 <Gadg8eer[m]> I'm not trying to double down on it. I was wrong. Are you happy now? 13:01:02 <Gadg8eer[m]> Because I get you're trying to be polite, but TrueBrain isn't. 13:01:23 <TrueBrain> Leave me out of this, wth? 13:01:52 <discord_user_03329cf> :kek: 13:02:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i think this discussion is over 13:02:26 <Gadg8eer[m]> Okay. 13:02:51 <Gadg8eer[m]> * polite, but ~~TrueBrain, * TrueBrain~~, * Eddi isn't. 13:03:09 <Gadg8eer[m]> * polite, but <del>TrueBrain, * TrueBrain</del>, * Eddi isn't. 13:03:29 <Eddi|zuHause> sure. if you want to believe that. 13:03:37 <TrueBrain> a word of the wise: if someone says it is over, don't continue. Let it be over. Don't try to have the last word. 13:04:00 <XarothBrook> 🤦♂️ 13:04:14 <TrueBrain> anyway ... I need to prune down this 115GB big CDN ... 13:04:22 <discord_user_03329cf> TrueBrain: It’s a word of the wise, only the wise will understand 13:04:23 <TrueBrain> let's see how ... 13:05:00 <TrueBrain> having every binary for all OSes back till 2020 for every nightly produced ... maybe there is a start 13:05:31 <petern> That seems over the top. 13:05:41 <TrueBrain> I once intended to write a cleanup script 13:05:46 <TrueBrain> (end of story) 13:05:53 <Eddi|zuHause> cool story bro 13:06:27 <TrueBrain> 800 nightlies, each ~100MB .. so that makes ... 80GB? 13:06:30 <TrueBrain> sounds about right 13:07:17 <Eddi|zuHause> what's a sane cutoff for nightly binaries? 1 week? month? year? 13:07:28 <TrueBrain> 3 months 13:07:40 <TrueBrain> (I really don't know 😛 Anything above 1 day is sufficient, I guess) 13:07:53 <petern> 1 week is about how long it takes us to notice it's stopped working... so 1 month probably 🙂 13:08:25 <petern> Steam only gives access to the most recent nightly, right? 13:08:31 <TrueBrain> yup 13:08:58 <TrueBrain> lol, there are also 60 OpenGFX nightlies 🙂 13:09:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i was also thinking "surely nobody needs a nightly more than 3 months old" 13:10:11 <TrueBrain> well, we do have the source files for every nightly all the way back to 2004 13:10:17 <TrueBrain> "just in case"? 😄 13:10:18 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 13:10:31 <petern> In git, yes 😉 13:10:40 <TrueBrain> no no, on the CDN! 🙂 13:10:43 <Gadg8eer[m]> No, you know what? This isn't about the last word. I was FUCKED OVER by an incompetant psychiatrist for 6 years and now I'm banned from everywhere. If you're going to be pedantic and then ignore me, FUCK ALL OF YOU. 13:11:01 <TrueBrain> I think it is time you walk away from your keyboard and take a breather 13:11:20 <glx[d]> Eddi|zuHause: unless I miss a crash report 🙂 13:12:27 <glx[d]> but yeah 3 months should be more than enough 13:12:35 <Eddi|zuHause> how reproduceable are builds these days? 13:12:48 <glx[d]> never with MSVC 13:12:49 <TrueBrain> not; vcpkg changes more often than you change your underpants 13:13:01 <Eddi|zuHause> twice a year? :p 13:13:07 <TrueBrain> you said it 😄 13:13:10 <petern> Inside out AND back to front. 13:13:34 <glx[d]> you can run the build twice in a row and get a different exe/pdb combo 13:15:00 *** Gadg8eer[m] has left #openttd 13:16:13 <petern> Oh stop it YouTube, I do not need to watch synthesizer reviews. 13:16:21 <petern> ... but ... ooh, shiny... 13:16:30 <TrueBrain> .... nooooooooo, don't do ittttttttt 13:16:38 <Eddi|zuHause> (i think we lost him already) 13:17:02 <glx[d]> imagine synthesizer reviews on bike 13:17:11 <discord_user_03329cf> https://tenor.com/view/oh-no-oh-no-anyway-gif-18887547 13:19:05 <petern> I'm mostly immune to bike reviews, they're a bit like computers. Beyond the frame, everything else is from one of two big manufacturers. 13:20:55 <Eddi|zuHause> but do the bikes have RGB? 13:21:06 <sinas128> if it rides, its good 👍 13:21:14 <TrueBrain> that's what she said 13:21:29 <sinas128> :widdle_goblin: 13:22:02 <TrueBrain> I am such a child .. I am giggling about that joke .. oowwhh .. right, CDN ... 13:34:16 <petern> Korg Wavestate MK2... a 0 synthesizer which runs (or at least the previous incarnation did), at its core, a Raspberry Pi compute module... Yeah, shiny, but not that interesting after all. 13:37:20 *** Flygon has quit IRC 13:43:29 <TrueBrain> `You don't have permission to send messages from this mailbox.` .. ffs Exchange, I gave myself those permissions .. why do you take for ever to propegate that information .. and why can't I see anywhere it hasn't yet 😦 13:44:15 <petern> It's great isn't it? There's also a separate flag hidden somewhere that allows you to send as an alias (that is already linked to your mailbox), otherwise you can only send as the main email address... 13:44:33 <TrueBrain> figuring all this out the first time took for ever 13:44:38 <TrueBrain> but every time after still frustrates me 13:44:50 <TrueBrain> these days I just make a new distribution group where I give myself "send as" rights to 13:45:59 <pickpacket> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=91012 13:45:59 <TrueBrain> but I always wonder .. did I forget any of the other 20 steps I have to take, or does this just needs some time .. as you just don't know 13:48:55 <TrueBrain> it was time 13:49:25 <petern> Lunch time? 13:49:32 <TrueBrain> yes 13:50:00 <petern> Cos I am dumb, I had breakfast and salad and also snacks :/ 13:50:26 <petern> The scales doth protest 13:51:22 * pickpacket had cake 13:54:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/workflows] TrueBrain opened pull request #29: Upgrade: bump all dependencies to latest https://github.com/OpenTTD/workflows/pull/29 13:56:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/workflows] TrueBrain opened pull request #30: Change: [CI] update to reusing workflow for testing https://github.com/OpenTTD/workflows/pull/30 13:56:26 <TrueBrain> oops, that will do a bit too much ... 13:57:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/workflows] glx22 approved pull request #29: Upgrade: bump all dependencies to latest https://github.com/OpenTTD/workflows/pull/29#pullrequestreview-1490813943 13:57:48 <glx[d]> haha fails everywhere, and of course expected no longer exist 13:59:47 <justanortherner> petern: I know this feeling... although mine is related to yesterday's alcohol consumption 😂 13:59:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/workflows] TrueBrain updated pull request #30: Change: [CI] update to reusing workflow for testing https://github.com/OpenTTD/workflows/pull/30 14:00:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/workflows] TrueBrain merged pull request #29: Upgrade: bump all dependencies to latest https://github.com/OpenTTD/workflows/pull/29 14:00:25 <TrueBrain> still not sure if I want to move these exceptions to the normal workflow to the actions repo or not .. website also has a similar copy of the flow .. 14:00:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/workflows] TrueBrain updated pull request #30: Change: [CI] update to reusing workflow for testing https://github.com/OpenTTD/workflows/pull/30 14:08:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/workflows] glx22 approved pull request #30: Change: [CI] update to reusing workflow for testing https://github.com/OpenTTD/workflows/pull/30#pullrequestreview-1490846813 14:08:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/workflows] TrueBrain merged pull request #30: Change: [CI] update to reusing workflow for testing https://github.com/OpenTTD/workflows/pull/30 14:11:55 <TrueBrain> deleting of stuff on a CDN is tricky ... 14:12:10 <TrueBrain> besides permissions and shit, how do you make sure the script doesn't go crazy and removes the wrong stuff 14:12:35 <petern> BEGIN TRANSACTION; ROLLBACK; 14:12:44 <TrueBrain> sadly, S3 buckets don't support that 🙂 14:12:48 <petern> 🙂 14:13:10 <petern> I'm looking at .github/workflows/ as inspiration and think I just don't need to migrate my CI today. 14:13:30 <TrueBrain> our workflow is ... more complex than most projects need 😛 14:14:03 <TrueBrain> I guess I just have to make the cleanup a manual job, where it lists what it wants to remove, and a human says: yes, I am fine with this 14:14:12 <TrueBrain> owh, in theory I could use a Staged Workflow for that 14:14:15 <Eddi|zuHause> "rm -rf / path/" :p 14:14:29 <TrueBrain> just means a few of us get an email with a question: can you approve this gate? And there it lists all the files it wants to remove 14:15:16 <petern> Better than doing it blind, yes. 14:15:37 <TrueBrain> yeah .. although I make backups of our CDN, it is still a bit annoying if it removes everything "because of a bug" 😛 14:18:23 <petern> Oh no, too many adhoc fixes here... rebasing x/41 14:22:11 <Eddi|zuHause> man, this game worked yesterday, but today it segfaults on start... 14:22:21 <TrueBrain> sorry 14:25:09 <petern> I probably broke another dropdown 🙂 15:09:17 <pickpacket> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=91