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01:12:53 *** Knogle has quit IRC 01:12:56 *** Knogle has joined #openttd.dev 12:23:12 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd.dev 13:13:54 *** Knogle has quit IRC 13:14:30 *** Knogle has joined #openttd.dev 13:18:16 <Belugas> hello 14:43:28 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd.dev 16:51:57 *** Zuu has joined #openttd.dev 16:51:57 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Zuu 16:57:56 *** Knogle has quit IRC 16:58:57 *** Knogle has joined #openttd.dev 17:08:53 <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttd.org/GUI_re-arrangement#Window_Re-arangement <-- I reworked this page a bit and most notably added the first paragraphs on settings re-arangement 17:09:23 <planetmaker> Purpose is to try split down the task into smaller tasks which preferentially also could be addressed independently 17:09:40 <planetmaker> But to also give an idea what to think about when addressing one of the issues 17:37:15 <Zuu> planetmaker: Below "AI settings" there seem to be a borken heading. 17:38:44 <planetmaker> indeed, thx 17:45:15 *** DorpsGek changes topic to "OpenTTD Dev Channel || Latest SVN: r24622 || Logs: http://webster.openttdcoop.org/?channel=openttd.dev || Voice (talk-right) upon request via #openttd; make sure you are registered to NickServ before asking" 17:49:41 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd.dev 17:49:41 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v frosch123 17:51:18 <frosch123> evening :) 17:52:38 <planetmaker> hi frosch123 :-) I had a bit of a go at http://wiki.openttd.org/GUI_re-arrangement 17:53:03 <planetmaker> I didn't want to put all that on our todo page (yet) 17:53:54 *** Alberth has joined #openttd.dev 17:53:54 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Alberth 17:56:04 <planetmaker> hi Alberth :-) I had a bit of a go at http://wiki.openttd.org/GUI_re-arrangement 17:56:15 <planetmaker> (I'm starting to repeat myself :D ) 17:57:03 <Alberth> :D 17:57:56 * Alberth misses the link to the FS by hackalittlebit 17:58:55 <planetmaker> good point. Do you know it (or its title)? 17:59:18 <Alberth> I am not even sure you want to touch "Window Re-arangement" at all, it's a very deep can of worms 17:59:35 <frosch123> planetmaker: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/BaseCosts <- i assume the <ref name="vehicle"/> stuff can all be removed? 18:00:18 <Alberth> FS#5147 - Consistent window style 18:00:40 <planetmaker> uh, there's still vehicle, frosch123 ? I thought I changed all to "local"? 18:01:13 <planetmaker> oh, yes. Forgot to remove those two. Yes, frosch123 18:01:18 <planetmaker> thanks, Alberth 18:01:33 <Alberth> yw :) 18:01:44 <frosch123> planetmaker: i just wondered about the big red error message at the bottom :p 18:03:06 <frosch123> planetmaker: the difficulty profile setting is more important for ai/gs, less for newgrf (only ecs) 18:04:16 <frosch123> i don't think splitting user/map/company settings is feasible 18:04:22 <frosch123> i would rather add filters to the tree 18:05:29 <frosch123> but even then i don't see why one would want to distinguish them... 18:05:45 <frosch123> what is the goal of separating map and user settings? 18:05:51 <planetmaker> hm, yes. Care to formulate that? You can better write what you think than I ;-) 18:06:02 <planetmaker> separating map and user settings... we have game options 18:06:26 <frosch123> well, i assume we are talking about different things then :p 18:06:26 <planetmaker> game options could become a general user settings. To set sound, music, base graphics, UI behaviour. Possibly UI size 18:06:49 <planetmaker> And in another part of it maybe also signal density, signal type date or so 18:06:58 <planetmaker> (i.e. the UI part of the adv. settings) 18:07:04 <planetmaker> but... I'm not sold on moving that) 18:07:25 <frosch123> planetmaker: yes, signals is a good example 18:07:38 <frosch123> if you look at current adv. settings there is a subtree for signal settings 18:07:43 <Alberth> the only thing I can sensibly see as something to distinguish is the set options stored versus not stored in a game 18:07:46 <frosch123> some of them are client, some company, some savegame settings 18:08:02 <frosch123> i don't think it makes any sense to split them, they feel correct in a "signal" category to me 18:08:16 <frosch123> i don't understand the intention of splitting client and savegame settings 18:08:35 <planetmaker> well. It makes sense for configuring new games 18:08:45 <planetmaker> but filtering serves the same purpose 18:09:12 <planetmaker> and might serve (much) more versatile 18:09:34 <Alberth> I have no idea what option is stored and what not in a game. Some form of distinguishing would however be fine, eg some marker somewhere 18:09:58 <Alberth> filtering is the only way to make it work for many, imho 18:10:16 <Yexo> good evening 18:10:21 <Alberth> evenink 18:10:27 <planetmaker> good evening Yexo :-) 18:11:03 <frosch123> Alberth: we already have a hint in the adv. settings help page 18:11:25 <Alberth> frosch123: what are you doing wrt filters, have a 'visible' flag attached to each option? 18:11:44 <frosch123> kind of 18:11:51 <frosch123> leafs have a filter state 18:12:03 <Alberth> frosch123: oh, must read that then, maybe I can learn to remember :) 18:12:11 <frosch123> branch nodes are shown only if at least one child is shown 18:12:19 <Alberth> nice 18:12:30 <frosch123> if the branch node name is hit by the text filter, it will force all childs to be shown 18:13:40 <Yexo> will it be possible to have multiple filters at the same time? 18:13:54 <Yexo> ie text filter and "basic" filter? 18:13:55 <frosch123> the string filters behave different to other filters 18:14:13 <frosch123> yes, i want dropdown filters and a text filter 18:14:24 <frosch123> the text filter has the same multi word search as in other places 18:14:33 <planetmaker> I modified the page a bit now. Anyone please feel free to amend / change / ... :-) 18:14:42 <frosch123> the text filter will likely scan the setting name, the branch node name and the help texts 18:15:08 <planetmaker> wrt map / user / newgame / ingame settings: those could possibly be done by extra buttons which can be checked independently. Makes sense IMHO 18:15:58 <Alberth> planetmaker: I just wanted an indication :p 18:16:18 <planetmaker> we have the indication partially(?) in the helptext 18:16:29 <planetmaker> but... I'd like a clearer one. without clicking a setting 18:16:44 <frosch123> i am still looking for an idea, when to trigger the "expand all" automatically 18:17:11 <frosch123> something like, "if the filter restricts the settings to such a low number, that all fit on one page, auto expand all" 18:17:19 <frosch123> but i am not sure when to auto collapse again 18:17:45 <planetmaker> oh, auto-expand/collapse on such condition 18:18:33 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/advsettingstextfilter.png <- well, when you open the window, the cursor is in the text filter 18:18:48 <frosch123> you then want to type in a filter term, and then you want to see the resutls 18:19:05 <frosch123> moving the mouse from the top of the editbox to the bottom to the expand buttons, feels bad 18:19:53 <planetmaker> hm.... expand all when using the search button. Always, I'd say 18:20:13 <frosch123> yeah, but what shall happen when the user clicks the minus button then? 18:20:22 <frosch123> revert whenever changing the text string again? 18:20:30 <planetmaker> collaps that one. And ^^ 18:21:04 <Alberth> auto expand on every change is the easiest to explain imho 18:21:06 <frosch123> also "collapse all" when emptying the filter box? 18:21:21 <planetmaker> I don't think it should auto-collapse then 18:21:21 <frosch123> i.e. collapse all on disabling filtering? 18:21:42 <frosch123> it feels weird to insert a single char, hit backspace, and then everything is expanded :p 18:22:13 <planetmaker> oh, it expands automatically, not when I press 'enter'? 18:22:22 <frosch123> "enter" might also be an option 18:22:23 <Alberth> it's the only sane option imho, the fully expanded list is useless when you have all options 18:23:03 <Alberth> you can collapse when above some treshold 18:23:32 <frosch123> so, expand when changing the filterterm and all hits can be shown 18:23:34 <planetmaker> honestly, not sure I like auto-collaps. When I (re)view settings, I want to see them ;-) 18:23:42 <frosch123> collaps when changing the filtererm and not all hits can be shown? 18:24:17 <Alberth> yeah, but 1 line too few looks so silly too 18:24:36 <Alberth> you could do 2 screens of settings or so as tresholds 18:24:45 <Alberth> s/s$/s/ 18:25:01 <planetmaker> but... what's the reason to not show all settings and keep it collapsed? 18:25:13 <planetmaker> the user then will click all + icons to actually see the filter results 18:25:28 <frosch123> planetmaker: that's like opening the window with everything expanded 18:25:40 <planetmaker> frosch123, yup. Would find it useful ;-) 18:25:48 <planetmaker> I rather scroll 18:25:59 <Alberth> easy selection of a section further down is the main reason not to expand all 18:26:29 <Alberth> makes you wonder whether the tree is useful at all :p 18:26:39 <frosch123> well, filtering is more modern :p 18:26:46 <planetmaker> Alberth, by default often the then expanded view doesn't fit the window either. So I have to scroll anyway 18:27:00 <planetmaker> little gain there, I think. I could scroll right away to the proper place in those cases 18:27:46 <frosch123> ok, maybe something like this: expand all only once when typing the first char into the box 18:27:51 <Alberth> if only we could right-click on scrollbars to go to that position :p 18:28:05 <frosch123> after that allow expanding/collapsing manually, but never do it automatically again 18:28:20 <planetmaker> frosch123, so when I unfilter, I have to click 'expand all' to set the one setting I didn't filter for? 18:28:29 <frosch123> that allows both, navigating without using the filter, and keeping user-expansion/collapsion while changing the filter 18:28:30 <planetmaker> oh, sorry 18:28:45 <planetmaker> yes, that's what I'd like :-) 18:29:47 <Alberth> make planetmaker happy then :) 18:30:05 <planetmaker> :D of course I only defend the way *I* use the adv. settings ;-) 18:30:44 <Alberth> the filter functionality itself is much more important imho, if the list is too long type more words :) 18:30:45 <frosch123> i am working as software developer, i am all for lame compromises :p 18:30:59 <planetmaker> haha :-) 18:31:24 <frosch123> it's totally inconsistent, but it fits all typical usecases 18:32:36 <planetmaker> hm, I like consistency, but... yes :-) 18:32:45 <planetmaker> I guess I'm not consistent myself :-P 18:32:48 <planetmaker> how lame 18:33:30 <Alberth> it's normal human behavior :p 18:37:50 <Zuu> I'm thinking about committing my GS industry patch. IIRC there was no further comments (other than to be explicit in the changelog, which is fixed in v6 of the patch: http://devs.openttd.org/~zuu/gs-industry_v6_r24621.patch ) 18:41:43 <frosch123> hmm, did we stop sorting the changelog alphabetically? 18:42:26 <frosch123> for 1.3 it all seems to be by date, while for 1.2 and older it is alphabetical 18:42:39 <Zuu> I had no idea it was alphabetically and assumed new entries was added to the bottom. 18:43:02 <frosch123> maybe it's different for game an ai :p 18:44:10 <Alberth> yeah, let's have different policies to confuse everybody :) 18:44:22 * planetmaker would intuitively sort by whatever categories I could find ;-) 18:44:51 <Zuu> Well, it's sorted, but by date :-) 18:56:21 *** DorpsGek changes topic to "OpenTTD Dev Channel || Latest SVN: r24623 || Logs: http://webster.openttdcoop.org/?channel=openttd.dev || Voice (talk-right) upon request via #openttd; make sure you are registered to NickServ before asking" 20:02:55 *** Alberth has left #openttd.dev 20:53:07 <frosch123> planetmaker: expanded on the gui page 21:18:09 <planetmaker> ah, nice :-) 21:45:29 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 23:00:59 *** FLHerne has left #openttd.dev 23:03:31 *** Zuu has quit IRC