Log for on 9th August 2013:
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18:55:42  <andythenorth> so what is actually wanted in new fruit store?
18:57:50  <Rubidium> berries?
18:57:55  <Rubidium> grapes?
18:58:05  <Alberth> easy selection of fruits (AIs, AILibs, Base sets, GSes, GS Libs, Height maps, Newgrfs, Scenarios)
18:58:17  <andythenorth> I wanted to add overview page for each content item
18:58:21  <andythenorth> should be easy-ish
18:58:32  <andythenorth> *fix the fricking login process* :D
18:58:44  <Alberth> a page for each newgrf, you mean?
18:58:47  <andythenorth> yes
18:58:52  <andythenorth> and maybe other types
18:58:55  <andythenorth> description
18:58:59  <andythenorth> link
18:58:59  <andythenorth> etc
18:59:44  <Alberth> I recently thought about having some sort of wiki-ish page with highlights of the newgrf
18:59:56  <andythenorth> user editable :o o_O
19:00:35  <Alberth> well, yeah, but that so complicated :(
19:00:48  <Alberth> unless there are some standard ways of doing that
19:01:48  <andythenorth> mediawiki :)
19:01:57  <Alberth>   is a question in that direction
19:02:36  <Alberth> although you could get far at the standard wiki, and the newgrf list page somewhere
19:03:10  <Alberth> hmm, perhaps create a standard link to the wiki or so?
19:04:19  <Alberth> compatibility with other content or with openttd / ttdp versions could be useful
19:04:20  <andythenorth> plausible
19:05:06  <Alberth> useful combinations of newgrfs
19:05:15  <andythenorth> very hard no?
19:05:22  <Alberth> connected to eg scenarios?
19:05:40  <andythenorth> think it has a curation problem
19:05:43  <andythenorth> e.g. needs curation
19:06:10  <Alberth> every user has a prefered set of newgrf combinations :)
19:07:10  <andythenorth> if we can invent future-looking telepathy, we can win
19:07:20  <andythenorth> something with quantum entanglement?
19:07:30  <andythenorth> I think python 3 has a standard library for that :P
19:07:50  <Alberth> from python2 import __future__  :p
19:08:16  <andythenorth> that works :P
19:08:45  <Alberth> yeah, but the future has no .newgrf field :(
19:09:31  <Alberth> connection to type of play?
19:10:15  <Alberth> we could have a "this item is often used with the following other items"   :)
19:10:40  <andythenorth> could we collect anonymous usage stats? :P
19:10:50  <Alberth> but it needs agreement of the user to forward this information
19:11:03  <andythenorth> plausible
19:11:08  <andythenorth> US govt has all our info anyway no?
19:11:11  <andythenorth> it's only newgrf :P
19:12:36  <Alberth> you could build a lot around a scenario
19:12:58  <Alberth> or around AIs
19:13:39  <Alberth> hmm, height maps may also be interesting
19:14:23  <Alberth> oh, refer to newer newgrfs from obsolete versions?
19:14:38  <Alberth> s/newer/other/
19:15:16  <Alberth> not sure what to "do" with grfcrawler
19:16:12  <andythenorth> me neither
19:16:23  <Alberth> should the fruit store take over the role of grfcrawler???
19:16:33  <andythenorth> I can't see that happening right now
19:17:22  <Rubidium> it won't completely take over grfcrawler as long as there're entities that do not want their stuff on the fruit store
19:17:53  <Alberth> just a description, but not the actual newgrf is not feasible to you?
19:18:03  <Alberth> ie only available at the web site
19:20:17  <Rubidium> I would really annoy me if I were in a supermarket and there's only a description of the product, but I had to go to another universe to maybe get the content
19:21:27  <Rubidium> and really, the fruitstore is developed to be the web frontend for the in game fruit store. Having download links in-game behind "pay"-walls is asking for trouble
19:21:40  * andythenorth cooking
19:21:41  <andythenorth> brb
19:21:57  <Alberth> makes sense
19:22:09  <Rubidium> mostly because the majority that clicks on such links will have no idea what to do with the files, and the forum will be full of people not having read the readme about where to place the content they downloaded
19:22:34  <Alberth> you also may get trouble with people wanting to delete pages
19:23:03  <Rubidium> oh, you mean links from openttd going to 404s and the likes?
19:23:50  <Alberth> no, I made a newgrf, and now I have a new one, and want to remove everything of the old newgrf
19:24:28  <Alberth> which of course causes major havoc when you connect things in all possible ways
19:24:44  * Alberth wonders how grfcrawler deals with that problem
19:29:16  <andythenorth> I think banananaas is really simple on this front: content is on bananas with description
19:29:20  <andythenorth> or not on bananas
19:29:29  <andythenorth> no 'listings' pointing elsewhere
19:29:54  <Alberth> seems the simplest solution
19:30:02  <Rubidium> Alberth: grfcrawler has many dead links
19:30:21  <Alberth> but it needs better selection and filtering
19:32:07  <Alberth> with dead links, entries are just polution
19:33:20  <Alberth> I do like the categories of grfcrawler though
19:35:45  <andythenorth> we could have fruit categories
19:36:57  <andythenorth> tagging is fail imho
19:37:09  <andythenorth> proven not useful
19:39:54  <Alberth> tagging failed on not enough steering in a common direction, I think
19:40:19  <Alberth> ie have a set of commonly used tags
19:41:32  <Alberth> but categories could fulfill that role
19:44:18  <andythenorth> tagging works (ish) for very large sets
19:44:22  <andythenorth> e.g. flickr
19:44:38  <Alberth> oh, we just have too few entries :p
19:44:51  <andythenorth> maybe
19:45:03  <andythenorth> in any case, categories would be better
19:45:28  <andythenorth> grfcrawler categories seem straightforward
19:45:35  <andythenorth> oddly, they kind of match the newgrf spec :P
19:45:37  <andythenorth> funny that
19:46:01  <andythenorth> could we detect 'this newgrf includes: stations | industries | cargos | road vehicles" etc
19:46:03  <andythenorth> ?
19:46:06  <andythenorth> from action 0
19:47:14  <Alberth> perhaps, but are they really available?  and in which climate?
19:47:38  <Alberth> perhaps when?  which type of tracks?
19:48:53  <andythenorth> all good points
19:49:05  <andythenorth> also, it's all covered in grftopia iirc :)
19:49:18  <andythenorth> no point reinventing frosch things
19:49:28  <Alberth> this is again close to a sort of highlight wiki page
19:51:43  <Alberth> interesting
19:52:02  <Alberth> perhaps the fruit store can do such analysis?
19:53:06  <Alberth> it would need a lot of detail information though, probably not available
19:55:33  <Alberth> 'when' could be an interesting point to select things
19:56:33  <Alberth> some sort of time graph that you can put together
19:58:04  <andythenorth> vehciel dates etc?
19:58:55  <Alberth> industrial evolution, economic crises, and so on :p
20:00:20  <andythenorth> JSON payload: date, description
20:00:41  <andythenorth> also....require RST for readme? o_O
20:01:32  <Alberth> just support it, and people will shift to it?
20:01:43  <andythenorth> yup
20:01:47  <Alberth> would be nice if openttd supported it
20:03:49  <andythenorth> FIRS uses RST for changelog
20:05:22  <Alberth> oh, that reminds me, I switched to sphinx for the eints documentation
20:05:33  <andythenorth> do you like it ?
20:05:39  <andythenorth> I've seen the output before, looks good
20:05:58  <Alberth> it's a level on top of rst, so you can do inter-document linking
20:06:30  <LordAro> latex support?
20:06:51  <Alberth> it has latex support
20:07:06  <LordAro> latex support for ottd :P
20:08:05  <Alberth> yeah, finally you can write readable equations :p
20:08:26  <LordAro> it's what i've been waiting for :P
20:08:33  <andythenorth> you stole my words :(
20:09:58  <andythenorth> should I make a clickable mockup of bananaanaanas
20:10:00  <andythenorth> ?
20:13:22  <Alberth> could be good for getting some feedback on the ideas, imho
20:14:22  <Alberth> depending on the audience, a set of static images or so would be fine too
20:14:38  <Alberth> like with the redesign of the openttd gui
20:15:25  <Alberth> hmm, call it baanaanaas  ? :)
20:19:58  <Alberth> good night andy
20:20:02  <andythenorth> bye
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