Log for on 5th June 2014:
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17:02:56  <Alberth> I wrote some thoughts about subsidies as contracts
17:05:57  <frosch123> <- fs#6012 without the off-topic
17:07:00  <planetmaker> I guess go for that, frosch123
17:08:13  <frosch123> Alberth: i am not sure whether somehow stuffing everything into one command is the right way
17:08:32  <frosch123> maybe add a separate "edit subsidy" command
17:08:43  <frosch123> like orders use
17:08:56  <Alberth> kk
17:09:00  <frosch123> then it is easier extensible and scripts can also adjust times dependnig oni their own conditions
17:09:08  <planetmaker> I'd like actually the idea to be able to 'claim' a contract - before I actually built a working service. But with a fine or penalty to pay if I claimed it and don't deliver within a certain time span
17:09:17  <planetmaker> would that make sense with contracts?
17:09:31  <Alberth> what about the extensions themselves?
17:09:49  <planetmaker> haven't read that yet. Still reading
17:09:56  <frosch123> you could compare it with the contracts from prison architect
17:10:21  <Alberth> like I know those :p
17:10:23  <frosch123> an optional award on claiming, and an optional award on completion
17:10:53  <frosch123> it is also possible to claim contracts when you already meet the condition
17:11:15  <Alberth> subsidies do that now too, or at least they used to do it
17:11:16  <frosch123> so, if you are sure you can fulfill the condition you can claim immediately
17:11:32  <frosch123> but if you are unsure you can claim later, with the risk of someone else contracting
17:12:01  <frosch123> but claiming an contract could reserve it exclusively, and also give you an award in advance, like a fixed money sum or something
17:12:04  <Alberth> claiming could be fun, but not sure if it should be here or in a script
17:12:12  <frosch123> but failing would then give penalty
17:12:34  <frosch123> well, there should be claiming in the gui, and a script defining what that means :)
17:12:36  <planetmaker> that's what I mean, frosch123. yes
17:13:13  <Alberth> good idea, adding a "claim" button
17:14:17  *** DorpsGek changes topic to "OpenTTD Dev Channel || Latest SVN: r26629 || Logs: || Voice (talk-right) upon request via #openttd; make sure you are registered to NickServ before asking"
17:16:09  <planetmaker> Alberth, just for the lulz, can we increase the cargo span a bit?
17:16:29  <planetmaker> hm... 500M is not 100k, no?
17:16:54  <planetmaker> I think we've build stations which produced in excess of 100k goods a month, though
17:17:15  <Alberth> give me 500M, I'll give you 100K, then you know :p
17:17:23  <planetmaker> :P
17:17:48  <Alberth> but if the commands get split, I don't see a reason to make things so complicated
17:17:55  <planetmaker> ok, I give you 500M $crap_currency in exchange for 100k€? :)
17:18:24  <Alberth> don't think I have that currently
17:18:36  <planetmaker> :(
17:18:59  <frosch123> yeah, it's still drying
17:19:09  <Alberth> ie, it can be a simple uint32 value then
17:19:33  <Alberth> unless 4G isn't enough either :p
17:19:33  <planetmaker> yeah, maybe really make it simple
17:19:54  <planetmaker> if several commands is no issue, that's preferrable than this bit-stuffing
17:20:01  <planetmaker> bit-stuffing makes for bad extensibility
17:20:19  <Alberth> it was fun devising the encoding though ;)
17:20:42  <planetmaker> :)
17:20:52  <planetmaker> it's a very good one, for the space available
17:23:37  <planetmaker> Alberth, as to the things to ponder: company bancrupt -> subsidy goes away. Company taken over -> subsidy taken over
17:24:02  <Alberth> sounds logical
17:24:19  <planetmaker> redaction of subsidies: sure it can. But that's like the expiry date. Isn't it the same?
17:24:57  <Alberth> ?
17:25:06  <planetmaker> allowing NoGo to simply cancel a pending subsidy might annoy players, but is a fair use of NoGo IMHO. Thus +1 on that
17:25:33  <Alberth> perhaps there should always be a time limit
17:26:05  <Alberth> and nogo could drop hints as to canceling a subsidy, imho
17:26:37  <Alberth> "City counsel desperate for town transport"  :p
17:26:40  <planetmaker> that's up to the nogo script. it would imho be ok, if it can simply remove a subsidy any time
17:26:54  <planetmaker> And call it "political events" or "higher powers" or whatever
17:27:23  <Alberth> "The President has declared transport of coal illegal"
17:27:48  <planetmaker> yeah, like that :)
17:29:05  <planetmaker> possible extension: transport mode
17:29:31  <planetmaker> e.g. require ship transport
17:29:55  <Alberth> indeed, the coind just dropped as you wrote that
17:29:59  <Alberth> -d
17:30:15  <planetmaker> or at least delivery by ship. Thus load onto ship 1 tile prior to final destination ;)
17:30:45  <planetmaker> not sure how to monitor the transport route. But I'd not worry about this abuse then
17:30:56  <Alberth> don't know if you can actually get that information
17:31:01  <planetmaker> exactly
17:31:46  <Alberth> sounds very complicated
17:32:01  <planetmaker> so just mode of delivery could be some addition
17:32:19  <Alberth> already now you get these crazy situations where a town requires water to grow, and it has no water tower
17:32:36  <Alberth> or it wants food, but it doesn't accept it
17:34:31  <Alberth> ah well, I'll add it to the suggested features, who knows :)
17:35:10  <planetmaker> just delivering valuables to a desert oasis by ship might be a strange combination. Yet...
17:35:20  <planetmaker> ... happens :P
17:36:06  <Alberth> nah, we also build ski attractions in the desert
17:36:23  <planetmaker> reality is the better satire, indeed
17:37:13  <Alberth> I played sub-tropical recently, with opengfx+  and it was a fun game
17:37:26  <Alberth> until I needed to switch to monorail :(
17:38:57  <Alberth> fruit production was really high, I got 1700 food / month, getting rid of that was a big job
17:38:58  <planetmaker> oh :(
17:39:15  <planetmaker> so it needs a switch 'play with rail till eternity'?
17:39:46  <Alberth> I learned a thing or two about splitting and joining streams :)
17:40:31  <Alberth> not having electric was a nice change
17:41:01  <Alberth> such a switch could be useful, you see more people messing with upgrading
17:41:16  <Alberth> although the general solution is NUTS I guess :)
17:41:24  <planetmaker> :D
17:43:03  <Alberth> what I would like to try is to have mono or maglev as well as standard rail available, so you can use different track types for different things
17:43:49  <Alberth> maybe I should start later
17:44:12  <planetmaker> you need to play with "vehicles never expire" :)
17:44:29  <Alberth> hmm, that's a thought :)
17:45:21  *** DorpsGek changes topic to "OpenTTD Dev Channel || Latest SVN: r26630 || Logs: || Voice (talk-right) upon request via #openttd; make sure you are registered to NickServ before asking"
17:48:06  <Alberth> NUTS has the additional advantage that the animations are beautiful, loading stages of rubber were just amazing
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