Log for on 10th August 2014:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
02:45:16  *** keoz has quit IRC
07:11:20  *** Alberth has joined
07:11:20  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Alberth
07:24:37  *** Supercheese_ has quit IRC
09:45:03  *** frosch123 has joined
09:45:03  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v frosch123
10:25:33  *** keoz has joined
11:55:25  <Alberth>   would this fix be sufficient, or do we need something more strict?  May become quite complicated for its goal perhaps
12:12:42  <frosch123> i do not dare to ask what monster you have in mind :) i would say fixing a single string is fine :p
12:13:03  <Alberth> I have nothing in mind, just wondering, mostly :)
12:13:34  <Alberth> maybe you had a simple way to prevent this problem from happening again
12:14:01  <frosch123> oh, i have! let users report them :)
12:15:18  <Alberth> this wasn't reported yet, I think :)
12:15:37  <frosch123> it's fine to fix nevertheless then :)
12:15:56  <Alberth> :)
12:18:18  <Alberth>   to get away from the double "advanced settings", what about "program settings" ?
12:22:40  <Alberth>  and maybe we want also change settings from the main menu?  :p
12:35:53  <frosch123> "program settings" makes no sense to me
12:36:15  <frosch123> either call it "game settings" or just "settings"
12:36:36  <Alberth> we already have "game settings" , as in settings that affect the save game
12:36:39  <frosch123> imho rather rename the "game options", but they are supposed to vanish anyway
12:37:20  <frosch123> locally i already added more settings from game options to the tree
12:37:40  <Alberth> yeah, I was trying to get a quick solution to the double advanced settings problems
12:37:42  <frosch123> only things left are the settings with some "custom value popup" and the base sets
12:38:10  <Alberth> but it's fine if we delay that
12:38:13  <frosch123> so, imho renaming "advanced settings" to "settings" is the most forward way
12:38:22  <frosch123> and other term just increases the confusion
12:38:30  <frosch123> *any
12:38:39  <Alberth> but we have AI settings, newgrf settings, game script settings
12:38:55  <frosch123> "general" settings? :)
12:39:29  <frosch123> or "settings tree"?
12:39:37  <Alberth> options  or   game options  seems better?
12:40:17  <Alberth> fair enough, let's just postpone this rename
12:42:13  <Alberth> renaming to another intermediate name doesn't seem very useful
12:43:48  <frosch123> ah, i remember some plan i had: in the intro gui call it "client settings" and filter for client settings
12:44:10  <frosch123> in mapgen window show "gameplay" and "company settings" and possibly "advanced mapgen settings"
12:47:04  <Alberth> and we have our X different settings windows back?  :D     could work for new users though, as the number of settings to change gets much smaller
12:47:45  <frosch123> well, you could still toggle the filter when the window is opened
12:47:52  <frosch123> i mean just a default selection
12:48:03  <Alberth> seems useful
12:48:25  <frosch123> any most of the settings, esp. newgrf and script, you only need for new games
12:49:15  <Alberth> indeed
12:52:24  *** DorpsGek changes topic to "OpenTTD Dev Channel || Latest SVN: r26725 || Logs: || Voice (talk-right) upon request via #openttd; make sure you are registered to NickServ before asking"
12:53:55  <frosch123> <- something like that is my *current* vision
12:56:27  <frosch123> but i am also dreaming of a mapgen height preview in the mapgen/load heightmap wnidow :p
12:59:27  <Alberth> my brother had the idea of displaying the minimap instead of the world view while generating the world
12:59:46  <frosch123> but that is already too late :p
13:00:13  <frosch123> i mean only generatnig the height (1% of the generation time or so), while still making changes in the settings
13:00:30  <frosch123> so you can see what "heightmap rotation" and "variety distribution" actually do
13:00:47  <frosch123> and you can hit rerandomise instead of generate->quit->newgame
13:01:18  <Alberth> yeah, the important part is that you don't want to switch between screens
13:02:17  <Alberth> you don't think that if we have heightmaps that way, the next step would be eg industry placement preview?
13:04:07  <frosch123> there will ofc be the suggestion; but imho it is way less important than the general terrain shape
13:04:28  <frosch123> the more towns and industries there are in total, the less their position matter
13:04:32  <frosch123> also they change over time
13:04:52  <frosch123> also you would have to zoom-in to see individual industries
13:05:10  <frosch123> if you take a look at other games: sometimes they come with a preview, but it never has all details
13:05:30  <frosch123> and the time it takes to generate a map is also a user-understandable reason, why it is not possible :)
13:06:14  <frosch123> also, once you have a preview for heightmaps: you may also want to add sliders to adjust the greyscale->height mapping
13:07:13  <Alberth> you could display a minimap in the world generation window in some way, let the generation process run, and hit abort or "try again" when you see things go wrong
13:07:46  <frosch123> hmm, also a nice idea :)
13:08:10  <Alberth> or hit "start game" once it's done, and you're happy
13:08:18  <frosch123> but also quite hard currently, because of all the global variables
13:08:48  <frosch123> we need a black intro screen, no savegame :p
13:09:03  <Alberth> "night edition" openttd :p
16:40:36  <Alberth>   just coded this arctic forest map generation warning, but it won't fly, I think, too many assumptions about the industry set
16:41:41  <frosch123> yes, it only applies to default industries :/
16:42:03  <Alberth> maybe we need something post-generation, like the non-existing vehicles thingie
16:43:34  <frosch123> possibly: something like: is there an industry of every type, which is available in this year, and which has a >0% spawning chance
16:44:05  <frosch123> there are also some newgrf flags, like: "spawn at least 1 industry of this type" vs. "don't bother"
16:44:49  <frosch123> <- e.g. flag 16
16:44:53  <Alberth> yeah, although I doubt they are used sensibly :)
16:45:39  <frosch123> so, yes, a warning about those industry types which have not been spawned when they should be at game start would be fine
16:46:07  <frosch123> it could give some generic error like: no suitable position on map for industries A, B and C
16:46:12  <Alberth> does the default industry set have that flag?
16:46:57  <frosch123> no, default industries only have date and position restrictions
16:47:12  <frosch123> and zero spawning percentage
16:47:43  <frosch123> basically: tropic lumbermills and oil rigs do not appear on map creation
16:47:54  <frosch123> oh... temperate banks are an issue though
16:48:21  <frosch123> they are quite likely to not be there on map generation, but it is not necessarily something for an error message
16:49:07  <frosch123> nah, wait, we are lucky: temperate banks have 0% chance on mapgen
16:49:17  <Alberth> :D
16:49:20  <frosch123> i guess such kind of patch would be worth a try
16:49:33  <frosch123> once could check it against default industries, firs and ecs and such
16:49:38  <frosch123> and see how often it triggers
16:50:44  <Alberth> depending on how you formulate the message, people may decide to go ahead anyway, perhaps
17:45:53  *** DorpsGek changes topic to "OpenTTD Dev Channel || Latest SVN: r26726 || Logs: || Voice (talk-right) upon request via #openttd; make sure you are registered to NickServ before asking"
20:02:07  *** Supercheese has joined
20:02:07  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Supercheese
20:41:49  *** Alberth has left
20:48:02  *** frosch123 has quit IRC

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk