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00:00:31 <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (enough players) 00:00:44 <PublicServer> *** Plimmer has left the game (connection lost) 00:00:44 <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players) 00:00:54 <Plimmer> !password 00:00:54 <PublicServer> Plimmer: teamed 00:01:13 <PublicServer> *** Plimmer joined the game 00:01:44 <De_Ghosty> lol 00:01:51 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> Yay! I can test my balancer! :P 00:01:54 <PublicServer> <Plimmer> Heya 00:01:56 <De_Ghosty> i have turned SmatZ gay :D 00:02:29 <SmatZ> not so fast sweetie <3 00:02:57 *** tmunkj has quit IRC 00:09:52 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> Plimmer, could you switch over to the company so i can check this balancer? 00:13:33 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> SmatZ, could you join so I can check this balancer? I'd like to know whether it works so I can plan to replace it if I need to 00:14:47 <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (enough players) 00:14:56 <PublicServer> *** SmatZ joined the game 00:15:28 <PublicServer> <SmatZ> I am here 00:15:48 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> thanks, one sec 00:16:38 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> hm 00:17:04 *** Polygon has quit IRC 00:18:58 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> okay, cool, it seems to go pretty well 00:19:25 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> not perfectly with 3 depots at the end, but it seems it shoudl average out nicely 00:19:34 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> Thanks SmatZ 00:20:02 <PublicServer> <SmatZ> you are welcome :) 00:20:26 <PublicServer> <SmatZ> it seems there are signal gaps though 00:20:39 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> in a couple of places they are intentional 00:20:40 <PublicServer> <SmatZ> what's TL? 00:20:46 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> but show them to me, i may have ,missed some 00:20:47 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> 5 00:20:59 <PublicServer> <SmatZ> can it block at !block? 00:21:08 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> ah.. 00:21:28 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> only if there is very heavy traffic up th line and then i should.. let me see 00:21:45 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> okay 00:21:56 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> now that shouldn't block 00:22:09 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> it should be bypassable 00:22:14 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> or maybe... 00:25:48 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> Now I'd like to see anything normal TRY to block that 00:26:56 <PublicServer> <SmatZ> I think there are too long signal gaps, but the traffic will show if it works :) 00:27:47 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> I may adjust them some 00:28:05 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> the goal is to keep te traffic moving, and blending well 00:28:10 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> and mostly evenly 00:28:25 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> With next-to-zero chance for blockage 00:28:42 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> Keep in mind that the PBS will compensate for some of the gaps 00:32:04 <PublicServer> <SmatZ> if you say so :) 00:32:31 <PublicServer> *** SmatZ has left the game (connection lost) 00:32:32 <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players) 00:32:41 <SmatZ> bah crash :) 00:32:49 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> lol 00:32:54 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> the news crash again? 00:33:00 <SmatZ> yeah :) 00:33:08 <SmatZ> the server wasn't updated for this game :-/ 00:34:02 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> i noticed.. kinda wondered about that 00:40:39 <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (enough players) 00:40:54 <PublicServer> *** SmatZ joined the game 00:41:12 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> WB SmatZ 00:41:27 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> any thoughts on the map so far? 00:41:51 * SmatZ patched his build with r16406, r16414 and r16416 ;) 00:41:56 <PublicServer> <SmatZ> nope... 00:42:39 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> it let you connect with the more recent ver? 00:42:47 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> por you're running lin 00:42:48 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> ? 00:42:52 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> *or 00:42:59 <SmatZ> compiling myself 00:44:30 <PublicServer> <SmatZ> good night :) 00:45:03 <Zarenor> Night SmatZ 00:45:30 <PublicServer> *** SmatZ has left the game (leaving) 00:45:31 <PublicServer> *** SmatZ has left the game (connection lost) 00:45:31 <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players) 00:45:34 <SmatZ> night Zarenor :) 01:07:57 *** KenjiE20|LT has joined #openttdcoop 01:07:57 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o KenjiE20|LT 01:08:36 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 01:08:55 <Zarenor> Heyas Kenjie 01:14:42 <KenjiE20|LT> yo 01:15:20 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> what're you up to? 01:16:23 <KenjiE20|LT> spodding about looking for summat to watch while waiting for get tired 01:16:39 <Zarenor> lol... 01:16:41 <KenjiE20|LT> if theres nothing on iPlayer then I'll randomly pick a film 01:25:15 *** [com]buster has quit IRC 01:25:15 *** [alt]buster has joined #openttdcoop 01:25:18 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 01:26:04 *** welterde has joined #openttdcoop 01:26:46 <PublicServer> *** Plimmer has left the game (leaving) 01:26:46 <PublicServer> *** Plimmer has left the game (connection lost) 01:32:00 *** pinedours has joined #openttdcoop 01:33:49 *** pinedour1 has quit IRC 01:48:55 <Plimmer> Very basic question, but how do I make a good exit from 8 lanes into two lanes? 01:49:05 <Plimmer> exit from a ro-ro station 01:49:20 <Zarenor> merge to 4 first and mix 01:49:26 <Zarenor> and then downmix to 2 01:49:30 <Zarenor> would be what I'd do 01:50:24 <Plimmer> Dosent that give me a problem if I dont care which of the 2 lanes the trains exit to? 01:51:17 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> if you don't care? 01:51:21 <Plimmer> Or rather I want them to exit via the two lanes. 01:51:23 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> then you want to mix them 01:51:41 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> if you do cae which goes where, make sure they get that way and mix them 01:51:43 <mensi> !password 01:51:43 <PublicServer> mensi: jerked 01:51:48 <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (enough players) 01:51:52 <PublicServer> *** mensi joined the game 01:52:04 <PublicServer> <ZarenorDarkstalker> Sup mensi? 01:54:21 <PublicServer> *** mensi has left the game (leaving) 01:54:21 <PublicServer> *** mensi has left the game (connection lost) 01:54:21 <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players) 01:57:26 *** mensi has quit IRC 02:07:04 *** [com]buster has quit IRC 02:07:05 *** [alt]buster has joined #openttdcoop 02:07:08 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 02:19:49 *** phatmatt has quit IRC 03:16:37 *** SineDeviance2 has quit IRC 03:16:55 *** SineDeviance has joined #openttdcoop 03:34:00 *** KenjiE20|LT has quit IRC 03:41:38 *** Razaekel has quit IRC 03:45:13 *** Razaekel has 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*** Xeryus|bnc is now known as XeryusTC 09:19:47 *** elmz has quit IRC 09:33:12 <XeryusTC> !password 09:33:12 <PublicServer> XeryusTC: sorely 09:33:22 <PublicServer> *** XeryusTC joined the game 09:33:29 <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> ack toyland maglev :s 09:34:09 <PublicServer> *** XeryusTC has left the game (connection lost) 09:38:52 <Mark> morning 09:40:23 <Mark> !password 09:40:23 <PublicServer> Mark: peeped 09:40:36 <PublicServer> *** Mark joined the game 09:41:07 <PublicServer> *** Mark has left the game (leaving) 09:41:07 <PublicServer> *** Mark has left the game (connection lost) 09:49:36 *** Kangoo has joined #openttdcoop 09:50:31 *** FooBar_ has joined #openttdcoop 09:50:50 *** Kangoo has quit IRC 09:53:23 *** TheODM has joined #openttdcoop 09:55:22 *** Kangoo has joined #openttdcoop 09:56:09 *** Kangoo_ has joined #openttdcoop 09:56:12 <Kangoo_> !password 09:56:13 <PublicServer> Kangoo_: nudest 09:56:22 <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (enough players) 09:56:31 *** Polygon has 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has left the game (leaving) 11:11:30 <PublicServer> *** Godde has left the game (connection lost) 11:11:37 *** Godde has quit IRC 11:14:24 *** Kangoo_ has quit IRC 11:15:44 *** Venxir has joined #openttdcoop 11:33:15 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop 11:33:15 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o KenjiE20 11:39:05 *** [com]buster has quit IRC 11:39:06 *** [alt]buster has joined #openttdcoop 11:39:08 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 11:43:19 *** elmz has joined #openttdcoop 11:45:46 <Xaroth> !password 11:45:46 <PublicServer> Xaroth: scolds 11:45:53 <PublicServer> *** Xaroth joined the game 11:46:15 <PublicServer> *** Xaroth has left the game (leaving) 11:46:15 <PublicServer> *** Xaroth has left the game (connection lost) 12:40:48 *** mixrin has joined #openttdcoop 13:17:10 *** Thraxian|Work has joined #openttdcoop 13:17:10 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Thraxian|Work 13:18:18 <PublicServer> *** Thraxian|Work joined the game 13:19:32 <PublicServer> *** Thraxian|Work has left the game (leaving) 13:19:33 <PublicServer> *** Thraxian|Work has left the game (connection lost) 13:27:38 *** georg has joined #openttdcoop 13:32:58 <georg> !password 13:32:58 <PublicServer> georg: clacks 13:33:10 <PublicServer> *** georg joined the game 13:36:22 <PublicServer> *** elmz joined the game 13:36:29 *** Godde has joined #openttdcoop 13:36:37 <Godde> !cl 8 13:36:41 <Godde> !players 13:36:43 <PublicServer> Godde: Client 1135 is georg, a spectator 13:36:43 <PublicServer> Godde: Client 1137 (Orange) is elmz, in company 1 (OTTDC) 13:36:48 <Godde> anyone here? 13:36:55 <PublicServer> <elmz> yep 13:37:14 <Godde> is there a command like !tunnels for curvelength 13:37:15 <Godde> ? 13:37:23 <KenjiE20> yep 13:37:27 <KenjiE20> @clcalc 13:37:28 <Webster> <train/mono/mag>cl <speed km/h> returns minimum CL for full speed transit (assuming TL > CL returned else use TL) (e.g. 'traincl 110' returns '2') -- <train/mono/mag>clspd <CL> returns the maxspeed a CL can manage (e.g. trainclspd '2' returns '110km/h or 68.75mph') 13:38:12 <Godde> traincl 305 13:38:16 <Godde> !traincl 305 13:38:25 <Godde> !1cl 305 13:38:32 <Godde> ? 13:38:38 <KenjiE20> its @ same way I called the help 13:38:42 <Godde> ah 13:38:47 <Godde> @traincl 305 13:38:47 <Webster> CL 13-8.60232526704i required for rail at speed 305km/h (or TL if it's shorter) 13:38:54 <Godde> cool 13:39:01 <KenjiE20> so 13 13:39:02 <Godde> @monocl 305 13:39:02 <Webster> CL 7.74008872065 required for monorail at speed 305km/h (or TL if it's shorter) 13:39:38 <PublicServer> *** georg has left the game (leaving) 13:39:38 <PublicServer> *** georg has left the game (connection lost) 13:47:47 <KenjiE20> @traincl 305 13:47:47 <Webster> CL 13 required for rail at speed 305km/h (or TL if it's shorter) 13:47:51 <KenjiE20> much nicer 13:49:26 <PublicServer> <elmz> *very alone and paused in here* ^^ 13:51:24 * DASPRiD pokes planetmaker 13:57:48 <planetmaker> outch 13:58:16 <planetmaker> ca va, DASPRiD ? 14:00:43 *** theholyduck has joined #openttdcoop 14:02:00 <theholyduck> !password 14:02:00 <PublicServer> theholyduck: hummed 14:02:03 <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (enough players) 14:02:08 <PublicServer> *** theholyduck joined the game 14:02:50 *** Venxir` has joined #openttdcoop 14:04:39 *** Godde has quit IRC 14:05:11 *** themroc has joined #openttdcoop 14:08:36 *** Venxir has quit IRC 14:33:32 *** Plimmer has joined #openttdcoop 14:44:02 *** Osai has quit IRC 14:44:23 *** Osai has joined #openttdcoop 14:44:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Osai 14:50:01 *** themroc has quit IRC 14:54:53 <theholyduck> The requested URL /files/publicserver_archive/PublicServerGame_143_Final.sav was not found on this server. 14:54:57 <theholyduck> somebody who HAVE the save? 14:54:57 <theholyduck> :P 14:57:03 <PublicServer> *** theholyduck has left the game (leaving) 14:57:03 <PublicServer> *** theholyduck has left the game (connection lost) 14:57:03 <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players) 14:57:13 <PublicServer> <elmz> noooo 14:57:39 <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (enough players) 14:57:42 <theholyduck> !password 14:57:42 <PublicServer> theholyduck: pokier 14:57:45 <PublicServer> *** theholyduck has left the game (connection lost) 14:57:46 <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players) 14:57:50 <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (enough players) 14:58:01 <PublicServer> *** theholyduck joined the game 14:58:01 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> enjoy 14:58:27 <PublicServer> <elmz> :) 14:58:32 <PublicServer> <elmz> takk ^^ 15:08:38 <PenKnight> !password 15:08:38 <PublicServer> PenKnight: pokier 15:08:54 <PublicServer> *** PenKnight joined the game 15:12:05 *** octernion has joined #openttdcoop 15:13:14 *** narc has joined #openttdcoop 15:13:28 <narc> Guten tag, everyone. 15:13:46 <PublicServer> <elmz> guten tag ^^ 15:14:55 <narc> Hey, I need a quick decision: is it more interesting to have a human mind in a ship's computer learning to interact with humans again, or would it be better to have an AI initially designed as a ship's computer exceeding its limitations and learning to be human? 15:15:33 <narc> I have these two stories in my head, both with approximately the same other details, and I need to pick one over the other. 15:16:20 <PenKnight> I like the first one 15:17:10 <narc> If I go with the human mind, I do get to tell the story of human learning to be a computer. 15:17:26 <narc> Tell the story in the form of memories, of course. 15:17:38 <Ammler> sali narc! 15:17:43 <narc> On the other hand, an AI learning to be human is an exercise in novelty. 15:17:51 <narc> Oye, Ammler! 15:17:57 <narc> Como estas? 15:18:02 <PublicServer> *** elmz has left the game (connection lost) 15:18:09 <Ammler> tres bien, et tu? 15:18:19 <narc> Je suis very good :) 15:18:40 <elmz> !password 15:18:40 <PublicServer> elmz: breads 15:18:49 <narc> I have experienced flight. Twice! :) 15:19:14 <Mark> wb narc 15:19:27 <narc> Thank you, Mark, it's good to be back :) 15:19:59 <elmz> I find the human one more original, an AI learning to be human sounds a bit "straight forward" :) 15:20:18 <Mark> agreed 15:20:25 <planetmaker> narc! :) 15:20:28 <narc> Hm, a fair point. 15:20:36 <narc> Hi, pm! 15:21:15 <narc> But I don't think either of them are particularly original. I'm pretty sure I've read both types of stories before, just probably not told through the prism of ship's sensors and spaceflight. 15:21:15 <planetmaker> Concerning your stories: the human connected to the ship is the more interesting one IMO - it's a less used theme 15:21:16 <elmz> the AI variant sounds like every other story about an AI becoming self aware 15:21:37 <narc> 'Strue, AIs have been done a lot more. 15:21:46 <planetmaker> And it opens up the interesting perspective of cyborgs. 15:22:03 <elmz> yeah, one hell of a cuborg ^^ 15:22:04 <narc> Hrm, in the same universe, yes. Not in this story. 15:22:15 <planetmaker> considering BSG, the human cylons are nearly that... :) 15:22:20 <narc> It's a bit past the point of cyborg, this one. 15:22:36 *** seandasheep has joined #openttdcoop 15:22:39 <elmz> well, if the ships comuter is a human brain it would technically be a cyborg ^^ 15:22:42 <planetmaker> past the point? A cyborg - in my definition - is a human enhanced with machinery. 15:22:51 <planetmaker> and the human essence is the brain. 15:22:56 <narc> Not really any human bits left in this one, not even the brain. 15:22:57 <PublicServer> *** elmz has left the game (connection lost) 15:23:09 <elmz> !password 15:23:10 <PublicServer> elmz: breads 15:23:14 <narc> We're talking consciousness transfer, or a simulated brain inside a computer. 15:23:16 <narc> Something like that. 15:23:26 <narc> There's no biological part of this human left. 15:23:39 <planetmaker> oh, ok. 15:23:45 <narc> It had to fly at sub-light speeds to a nearby star and investigate it. 15:24:04 <narc> Then return 5k years later to find a very different solar system than it left behind. 15:24:06 <planetmaker> then I wouldn't call it human mind, though. 15:24:14 <narc> It was initially human, which is the point. 15:24:35 <planetmaker> what can transform something from brain to machine? 15:24:36 <narc> And it retains many (most? all?) of its memories of having been human. 15:24:56 *** themroc has joined #openttdcoop 15:25:06 <narc> Consciousness transfer? An (extremely) thorough brain scan at point of death, leading to the brain being simulated in a computer. 15:25:25 <planetmaker> proven to be impossible :P 15:25:28 <narc> That's my thinking, though I'm loath to go too deeply into details. I want sci-fi, not fantasy. 15:25:38 <narc> Bah, impossible. I'm just bending the rules a bit. 15:25:46 <narc> FTL travel's impossible, too. 15:25:46 <planetmaker> yes, but conciousness transfer is fantasy, not scifi :) 15:26:11 <planetmaker> is it? 15:26:14 <narc> I wouldn't bet on it. 15:26:25 *** Venxir has joined #openttdcoop 15:26:42 <narc> It all depends on how "hard" the rules are. If you bend them just a little bit, and remain sufficiently cryptic about details, you can convince a reader. 15:26:52 <narc> If they're willing to be convinced, anyway. 15:28:00 <elmz> bah, the game dl stops at 72.5 / 492 kb :( 15:28:29 <PublicServer> *** elmz has left the game (connection lost) 15:28:49 <elmz> !password 15:28:49 <PublicServer> elmz: titter 15:30:17 <elmz> I tried to save a sparrow chick today :/ 15:30:28 <elmz> I failed :( 15:30:56 <XeryusTC> usually it is better to save human chicks ;) 15:31:58 *** Venxir` has quit IRC 15:32:05 <elmz> well, if I found a dirty human chick on a side walk I most certainly wouldn't have taken her home :P 15:32:23 <narc> It would depend on how dirty, now wouldn't it? 15:33:00 <XeryusTC> wll, i kind of like dirty :P 15:33:01 <elmz> not that kind of dirty :P 15:33:25 <planetmaker> narc, I prefer SF which doesn't make too many assumptions which violate basic phyical laws :) 15:33:31 <planetmaker> *physical 15:33:44 <planetmaker> and quantum mechanics is quite fundamental... 15:33:53 <narc> Hrm, I didn't say a quantum-level analysis. 15:33:56 <narc> Just neuron-level. 15:34:25 <narc> If you can simulate the neurons and the many brain chemicals, you can simulate a brain. 15:34:26 <planetmaker> well. But I guess you'll need that :) in order to obtain the memory. 15:35:07 <narc> Is the human brain a quantum computer? At least, does it store memory at the quantum level? 15:35:16 <Razaekel> nobody knows 15:35:24 <narc> Indeed, which is why I can play with it. 15:35:33 <narc> :) 15:35:36 <Razaekel> there was a book that assumed it was 15:35:41 <Razaekel> dont remember the name, tho 15:35:51 <narc> If it is, there's no way to clone a brain the way I described it. 15:36:06 <narc> So I'm going to have to assume it isn't. 15:36:13 <narc> At least for this story. 15:36:17 <Razaekel> why wouldnt there be a way to clone it? 15:36:31 <narc> Didn't say that, I just said it couldn't be cloned the way I described it. 15:36:45 <narc> i.e. using a deep scan and then simulating the results. 15:36:48 <Razaekel> oh 15:36:53 <narc> Quanta are annoying like that. 15:36:54 <Razaekel> eh 15:37:41 <Razaekel> the book i read which assumed it had a quantum structure used a deep scan to simulate it 15:37:51 <Razaekel> the result, tho, was that the to brains were linked 15:37:54 <Razaekel> two* 15:38:04 <narc> Ha, human-machine telepathy. 15:38:14 <Razaekel> not that kind of linked 15:38:15 <narc> The ultime brain-computer interface? :) 15:38:20 <narc> *ultimate 15:38:25 <narc> I kid, I kid. 15:40:08 <Razaekel> the point of the quantum structure is that it arose from the extreme complexity of the brain, and thus a simulation of that complexity ended up creating a duplicate quantum structure, which resulted in the two being quantum entangled 15:40:35 <Razaekel> but when the human died, the other brain experienced a bit of a backlash 15:40:47 <narc> Eenteresting. 15:42:23 <narc> Would you happen to recall the title of this book? 15:42:32 <narc> And/or the author? 15:42:36 <Razaekel> i already said i dont remember the name 15:42:44 <narc> Right, sorry. 15:42:47 <Razaekel> if i dont remember the name, i cant remember the author 15:42:58 <narc> Let's see if Google helps any. 15:44:05 <XeryusTC> hmm, with enough processing power one could simulate a human brain, although i doubt that you could properly fit the neural networks that a human brain form so quickly into a computer 15:44:59 <planetmaker> you need a neural network obviously. 15:45:14 <Razaekel> the closest we have to a human brain in terms of hardware is a FPGA 15:45:16 <XeryusTC> from a purely biological standpoint it would be very hard to do as every neuron has thousands of incomming and outgoing connections all being influenced by certain types of hormones 15:45:33 <XeryusTC> and on top of that there are other chemicals that apparently are used to store memory and other things 15:46:10 <narc> All details fickle enough to leave inside the black box of "brain-computer consciousness transfer" 15:46:17 <XeryusTC> and other chemicals that influence the overal mood of the brain and such 15:47:01 <narc> Still, the fact that we know these things points to the fact that the problems can probably be overcome, given enough engineering. 15:47:17 <planetmaker> my personal feeling is "if you can clone a brain - then you can do anything. It doesn't matter anymore" :) 15:48:07 <narc> Oh, there are bound to be problems bigger than that. 15:48:16 <narc> Just because you can clone it, doesn't mean you understand it. 15:48:26 <planetmaker> I don't think so :) 15:48:28 <XeryusTC> i think the most effecient way to solve such a thing is to make a computer interface for the brain and spinal cord 15:48:35 <XeryusTC> anyway, dinner time 15:49:14 <narc> Truth is, that is a neat option -- but how feasible is it to keep a brain in a jar alive for several centuries (at least) of ship time? 15:49:27 <Razaekel> not 15:49:34 <Razaekel> well 15:49:36 <Razaekel> alive, sure 15:49:43 <Razaekel> conscious? 15:49:52 <Razaekel> eehhh 15:50:00 <narc> Granted, it might be less of a problem than simulating the same brain inside a computer. 15:50:12 *** octernion has quit IRC 15:50:12 <narc> Alive, conscious. The brain is the ship. 15:50:29 <narc> To some extent, anyway. 15:50:34 <Razaekel> several centuries is a long time without any interaction 15:50:55 <Razaekel> there's no gurantee that it'll be sane when it gets back 15:51:02 <narc> Depends on what you mean by interaction. 15:51:37 <Razaekel> imo, it would be better to simulate the brain in a computer 15:51:38 <narc> The entire situation makes for an enormous change from the human condition. 15:51:45 <PublicServer> *** elmz joined the game 15:51:49 <Razaekel> at least that way, it can control the relative time speeds 15:52:05 <Razaekel> or even just sleep until it arrives 15:52:07 <narc> That would still be feasible as a brain in a jar, to an extent. 15:52:16 <Razaekel> i dont think so 15:52:44 <Razaekel> we, as humans, dont have idnetical brains, yet we all seem to experience passage of time at the same rate 15:52:54 <planetmaker> narc: keeping a brain alive for prolonged time, even centuries - that is again something which I find probably to exist given due time and technological advances 15:52:54 <Razaekel> putting a brain in a jar wouldnt change that 15:53:30 <Razaekel> besides, the equipment necessary to keep that brain alive 15:53:30 <narc> True, but this brain has a chance to change its own biochemistry within a huge range, not available to one in a fully biological body. 15:53:41 <Razaekel> would be bulky 15:53:50 <Razaekel> a computer requires much less equipment 15:54:14 <narc> Wouldn't bet on that -- I'd expect about the same order of magnitude of the volume of equipment. 15:54:26 <planetmaker> Razaekel, considering an interstellar passage, the equipment to maintain one brain cannot be the major thing to sustain :) 15:54:38 <narc> The complexity of the equipment, on the other hand, can be very different. 15:54:54 <Razaekel> go read Accelerando 15:55:39 <Razaekel> they advanced enough that they could simulate multiple brains inside a large simulation on a small peice of equipment 15:55:56 <narc> Meh. Not sure I buy that. Moore's law doesn't go on forever. 15:56:17 <Razaekel> it goes pretty far 15:56:20 <narc> Otherwise, define "small". 15:56:26 <Razaekel> couple cm 15:56:28 <Razaekel> probably 15:56:34 <narc> Not very likely. 15:56:51 <Razaekel> *snort* 15:57:05 <narc> Either way, consider this entire ship is built around the (human or AI) brain that's going to drive it. 15:57:15 <Razaekel> this is the future and you're saying 'not very likely'? 15:57:30 <Razaekel> that's what they said about flying 15:57:40 <narc> Well, I didn't say "impossible", did I? 15:57:50 <Razaekel> they also said flying was impossible 15:57:56 <narc> I don't believe it's impossible. 15:58:10 <narc> Just not very likely, at least not for the relatively near future I'm going for. 15:58:12 <Razaekel> so there's no point saying not very likely 15:58:14 <PublicServer> <elmz> finally connected :) 15:58:43 <Razaekel> nerc, what do you know about the singularity 15:58:44 <Razaekel> ? 15:58:48 <Razaekel> narc* 15:58:54 <narc> I need the equipment to be bulky enough that it doesn't make sense to send more than one intelligence on this ship, but also advanced enough that the intelligence *can* be placed on it. 15:59:03 <narc> I vaguely remember the term. 15:59:29 <Razaekel> alright 15:59:48 <Razaekel> theoretically, you could put a brain in a vat and feed it stimulus 16:00:00 <Razaekel> you're gonna need equipment to clean the fluid 16:00:34 <Razaekel> but in that case, i'd use delta wave stimulus to keep the brain asleep 16:00:54 <narc> Hrm. 16:00:56 <Razaekel> unless something comes up that the ship's computer cant handle 16:01:14 <planetmaker> sounds like a good plan, Razaekel 16:01:30 <narc> Of course, the brain itself can be in charge of ordering delta-wave stimulus to put itself to sleep. 16:01:38 <Razaekel> of course 16:01:48 <narc> So that's the brain in a jar, then. 16:01:52 <XeryusTC> back 16:01:59 <narc> wb, XTC 16:02:02 <Razaekel> it's not really necessary for the brain to be awake the entire time or even on a standard sleeping cycle during the flight 16:02:06 <Razaekel> space is big 16:02:08 <Razaekel> and boring 16:02:08 <narc> Very much agreed. 16:02:30 <narc> It could wake up once in a while just to look around, see if there's anything interesting nearby (say, once a year or so?) 16:02:37 <Razaekel> now, if you had the ability to simulate a fantasy world, basically, then you could keep the brain awake 16:02:37 <narc> Then put itself back to sleep. 16:03:09 <Razaekel> it would just feed that data into the brain interface, so it'd be 'real' 16:03:17 <narc> Well, the brain can simulate a fantasy world itself -- see dreams -- so expanding that to a state of lucid dreaming wouldn't be impossible. 16:03:21 <XeryusTC> hmm, i think you want the brain to be able to wake up when the ship's in danger 16:03:36 <narc> Aye, but that's what the ship's computer is for. 16:03:47 <XeryusTC> and to keep navigating the ship in case it hits an unpredicted gravity well etc :P 16:03:50 <Razaekel> alpha wave stimulation plus a shot of adrenaline 16:04:20 <narc> These are details that the story doesn't need to tell, but they're good to know in advance. 16:04:22 <XeryusTC> now that is not a very nice method of waking a brain up :P 16:04:31 <Razaekel> the ships computer would be able to wake the brain in one of 3 situations 16:04:34 <Razaekel> the ship is in danger 16:04:40 <Razaekel> the ship doesnt know what to do 16:04:44 <XeryusTC> narc: a good story comes from knowing facts that aren't told in the story but good to know anyway ;) 16:04:47 <Razaekel> or it's a prearranged wakeup time 16:04:48 <narc> Oh, hell, why not just flash a big noisy alarm in its visual and auditory cortexes? 16:04:53 <narc> Exactly. 16:05:08 <narc> XeryusTC: That's why we're brainstorming, no? :) 16:05:18 <XeryusTC> quite ;) 16:05:29 <narc> So we could do it as a brain in a jar, at least from this standpoint. 16:05:48 <narc> The question is, can it remain alive for useful periods? 16:06:12 <narc> Or do we need some kind of stasis device to keep it fresh? (see Niven's Slaver Stasis) 16:06:32 <Razaekel> some genetic tinkering should help 16:06:49 <narc> Could we assume nano-engineering good enough to repair damaged neurons? 16:06:56 <Razaekel> although, since the brain is in a jar, and doesnt have it's own tempeature/pain nerves 16:07:05 <Razaekel> you could chill the fluid 16:07:08 <narc> If we can assume the nanos, we can keep it alive indefinitely. 16:07:17 <Razaekel> nanos are a cheat device 16:07:20 <Razaekel> :-P 16:07:23 <planetmaker> narc, way easier to add from time to time new stem cells which become new neurons. 16:07:25 <narc> Or if not nanos, some way to trigger cell regrowth. 16:07:32 <narc> Yah, I was just about to say that, pm 16:07:35 <planetmaker> stem cells can be carried frozen and thus in stasis 16:07:53 <Razaekel> or genetic tinkering to fix the telomeres 16:08:00 <narc> That solves that problem, then. 16:08:02 <Razaekel> in which case, cells dont suffer from aptosis 16:08:03 <planetmaker> given proper hormones they can be programmed to become brain cells e.g. neurons. 16:08:17 <Razaekel> but then you have the risk of cancer 16:08:23 <Razaekel> which could be a plot point 16:08:46 <narc> The Fear for a brain in a jar: the threat of cancer. 16:09:11 <Razaekel> heh 16:09:13 <planetmaker> hm... 16:09:17 <narc> We could irradiate cancer cells, but at the cost of killing a bunch of healthy cells with it, all of them needing to be regrown later. 16:09:21 <XeryusTC> add some chemical that puts the brain in stasis 16:09:34 <Razaekel> it would be uncontrolled division of cells 16:09:44 <Razaekel> which results in the brain growing larger than the jar 16:09:51 <Razaekel> with unhappy results 16:09:58 <narc> Which is death, basically. 16:09:59 <planetmaker> narc: rather do dedicated microwaving. Just frying the cancer helps 16:10:03 <narc> Right. 16:10:05 <XeryusTC> the main problem of cells dying is just pure age and them having devided too much 16:10:26 <Razaekel> xeyrus, that's suspected to be a result of telomere degradation 16:10:32 <narc> Aye. 16:10:53 <narc> So do we want to mess with the telomers, or would we rather grow new neurons from stem cells? 16:11:06 <narc> Either way, there's a potential for runaway cell division. 16:11:15 <narc> (i.e. cancer) 16:11:55 <narc> I sort of prefer the stem cell idea, it's a bit closer to what we can do today. 16:12:30 <Razaekel> but you can only carry a limited amount of stem cells 16:12:38 <narc> It's a big ship. 16:12:40 <Razaekel> eventually you're gonna run out 16:12:54 <narc> All you have to be careful of is that you don't run out before you can get back home. 16:13:29 <narc> Several centuries of ship-time is a limited time-frame. 16:14:06 <narc> Maybe some combination? Assume telomeres can be messed with enough to enhance the lifetime of a neuron enough that you don't have to carry as many stem cell replacements. 16:14:27 <narc> Even 10% longer life is good enough on the order of centuries. 16:14:37 <XeryusTC> but you can grow stemcells to get more stem cells 16:14:45 <Razaekel> considering neurons already last almost a lifetime 16:14:57 <narc> Yes, but then they need nutrients, etc, which the brain itself also needs. 16:15:05 <XeryusTC> so if you divide one cell 100 times you could maybe use only 50% for the regrowing of cells 16:15:29 *** mixrin has quit IRC 16:15:40 <XeryusTC> but, the problem with replacing cells is that they need to make the same neurological connections again too 16:15:50 *** mixrin has joined #openttdcoop 16:16:03 <XeryusTC> so you might end up with a brain that ends up schizophrenic or something like that 16:16:04 <Razaekel> if your cells have already died, then you've already lost some function 16:16:09 <narc> Not necessarily the same connections. 16:16:36 <narc> Just enough that damaged memories can be recreated in the newly-grown sections. 16:16:44 *** StarLite has joined #openttdcoop 16:16:44 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o StarLite 16:16:49 <KenjiE20> holy crap, it's a narc 16:16:52 <narc> I suspect the brain can do this on its own. 16:17:05 <narc> Heh. 16:17:18 <XeryusTC> the brain doesnt really restore dead neurons 16:17:32 <XeryusTC> but maybe you're trying to prevent a kind of slow stroke 16:17:32 *** Zulan has joined #openttdcoop 16:17:40 <narc> True, but it does shift memories around from damaged areas to undamaged ones. 16:17:56 <narc> So if you gave it a new undamaged area it could theoretically use that. 16:18:32 <XeryusTC> i guess it will move the memories to a previously unused area and you then replace the old died of area 16:18:42 <narc> Pretty much. 16:18:46 <XeryusTC> which could maybe lead to partial replacements of the brain over a longer livespan 16:18:53 <XeryusTC> much like upgrading or maintenance :P 16:19:10 <narc> Right, and doing enough of those would eventually net you a whole new brain with most of the memories of the old one. 16:19:24 <XeryusTC> so you can have one individual going through so many partial replacements that it actually had 20+ brains in its livetime 16:19:29 <narc> Naturally, they'd seem more faded, like our memories of childhood are. 16:19:35 <narc> Yah. 16:19:41 <planetmaker> XeryusTC, I think I recently read in Nature that neurons are indeed restored - contrary to long-established believe 16:19:45 <XeryusTC> much like placing the whole personality in a new brain, but in smaller steps 16:19:59 <narc> Although at that point, I dunno if I'd call it the same brain anymore. 16:20:05 <planetmaker> recently = last 12 months or so. 16:20:06 <XeryusTC> planetmaker: was that partially damaged or dead neurons? 16:20:32 <planetmaker> restored = new neurons created like new skin cells. 16:20:43 <planetmaker> replacing dead or dying ones 16:20:43 <narc> I recall hearing about that, too. 16:22:23 <XeryusTC> hmm, i havent heard it but it sound plausible indeed 16:23:00 <XeryusTC> although it was believed that 98% or so (cant remember the exact figure) of your brain and other neurons were grown in early childhood 16:23:09 <XeryusTC> and the other 2% or so is small reconstruction work 16:25:12 *** Tonyf12 has joined #openttdcoop 16:25:18 <Tonyf12> !dl win32 16:25:18 <PublicServer> Tonyf12: http://binaries.openttd.org/nightlies/trunk/r16381/openttd-trunk-r16381-windows-win32.zip 16:25:58 <Tonyf12> Damn, my internet is slow today. 16:26:43 <Tonyf12> !password 16:26:43 <PublicServer> Tonyf12: shrugs 16:27:09 <PublicServer> *** Tony joined the game 16:27:47 <PublicServer> <Tony> Do toyland maps always look like this? 16:28:07 <KenjiE20> look like what? 16:28:16 <KenjiE20> a giant junction of insanity? 16:28:37 <PublicServer> <Tony> Ugly. Very Very Ugly. 16:28:44 <PublicServer> *** Kenji joined the game 16:28:56 <PublicServer> <Kenji> is not ugly 16:29:05 <PublicServer> <Kenji> weird maybe 16:29:16 <PublicServer> *** Narc has left the game (connection lost) 16:29:24 <PublicServer> <Tony> It is ugly. It's far too cluttered. 16:29:35 <PublicServer> *** Narc joined the game 16:29:38 <PublicServer> <Kenji> oh the trees? 16:29:38 <PublicServer> <elmz> it wouldn't be bad if they toned down the colors a bit 16:30:01 <PublicServer> <Narc> Bah, yea, toyland is an ugly tileset. 16:30:02 <PublicServer> <Kenji> yea, the tree algorithm doesn't really work for these 16:30:04 <PublicServer> <Tony> Yes. Kenji: Did you think I was talking about the network. 16:30:14 <PublicServer> <Kenji> not really 16:30:20 <PublicServer> <Kenji> being abtuse :P 16:30:23 <theholyduck> wich is why we have tress invisble 16:30:33 <PublicServer> <Kenji> whose 'we'? 16:30:35 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> me 16:30:36 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> :p 16:31:05 <PublicServer> <Tony> What's the keyboard shortcut for that again? I haven't played this in a month. 16:31:16 <theholyduck> PublicServer, no idea, jut open transparency settings 16:31:19 <PublicServer> <Narc> Ctrl+2 for the trees. 16:31:20 <PublicServer> <Kenji> tools, trancparecy options 16:31:29 <PublicServer> <Kenji> get your self a nice toolbar for them 16:31:37 <PublicServer> <Tony> Thanks Narc 16:32:05 <PublicServer> <Narc> Hm, this game is completely GRF-less? 16:32:08 <theholyduck> yeah 16:32:13 <PublicServer> <Kenji> yup 16:32:33 <PublicServer> <Narc> It looks better with OpenGFX than with the default graphics. 16:33:06 <PublicServer> *** theholyduck has left the game (leaving) 16:33:06 <PublicServer> *** theholyduck has left the game (connection lost) 16:33:22 <PublicServer> <Narc> Hrm, the block signals look like PBS signals, that's not nice. 16:33:24 <theholyduck> !password 16:33:24 <PublicServer> theholyduck: shrugs 16:33:39 <PublicServer> *** theholyduck joined the game 16:33:41 <PublicServer> <Narc> Indeed, it's highly confusing. 16:33:42 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> oh god yes 16:33:49 <PublicServer> *** Narc has left the game (leaving) 16:33:49 <PublicServer> *** Narc has left the game (connection lost) 16:33:51 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> atleast the background looks better 16:33:57 <PublicServer> <Tony> I've to guess at times anyway. The difference is not clear on 1440 x 900. 16:34:10 <PublicServer> *** PenKnight has left the game (leaving) 16:34:10 <PublicServer> *** PenKnight has left the game (connection lost) 16:34:19 <PublicServer> <Tony> (Difference between signal types) 16:34:21 <narc> !password 16:34:21 <PublicServer> narc: shrugs 16:34:31 <PublicServer> *** Narc joined the game 16:34:39 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> nice invisible trees and towns. make opengfx livable 16:34:48 <narc> With OpenGFX, the path sigs are white-posted, the block sigs are gray. 16:34:51 <PublicServer> *** PenKnight joined the game 16:34:55 <narc> Makes them easy to tell apart from each other. 16:35:14 <PublicServer> *** Kenji has left the game (leaving) 16:35:14 <PublicServer> *** Kenji has left the game (connection lost) 16:35:32 <PublicServer> <Narc> And I see that, for toyland/original gfx, the opposite is true. 16:35:32 <PublicServer> <Tony> How do I get openGFX? 16:35:39 <KenjiE20> bananas 16:35:40 <PublicServer> *** Narc has left the game (leaving) 16:35:40 <PublicServer> *** Narc has left the game (connection lost) 16:35:51 <narc> Right, grab it from bananas, easiest way. 16:35:52 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> yeah, just go download online conent, and select opengfx 16:36:07 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> then all you have to do is enable it in game settings 16:36:39 <PublicServer> *** elmz has left the game (connection lost) 16:37:25 <elmz> !password 16:37:25 <PublicServer> elmz: shrugs 16:37:41 <PublicServer> *** elmz joined the game 16:37:46 <PublicServer> <Tony> How do people comprehend these networks? I can't even understand some of the junctions. 16:37:49 <PublicServer> *** Narc joined the game 16:37:55 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> this is a VERY simple junction 16:37:56 <narc> The password's set to change more rarely now, isn't it? 16:37:58 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> take a look at the blog 16:38:13 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> well the middle bit 16:38:14 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> anyway 16:38:17 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> is very simple 16:38:21 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> its a davli/spiral junction 16:38:52 <KenjiE20> complicated by the fact there's a station in the middle 16:38:58 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> true 16:39:00 <KenjiE20> with hooks to 3 branches 16:39:05 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> but if you just disregard it 16:39:08 <XeryusTC> and its sheer size 16:39:09 <PublicServer> <Narc> That, and being spread out over a huge area. 16:39:28 <KenjiE20> hard to disregard when you can't tell whats what without being zoomed right out 16:40:29 <PublicServer> *** Tony has left the game (leaving) 16:40:29 <PublicServer> *** Tony has left the game (connection lost) 16:40:53 <PublicServer> <Narc> Hrm. Hub bypass. 16:41:12 <theholyduck> yeah any lines that just need to turn right 16:41:15 <theholyduck> bypass 16:41:16 <Tonyf12> !password 16:41:16 <PublicServer> Tonyf12: buttes 16:41:26 <theholyduck> instead of complicating the exit of the hub 16:41:34 <PublicServer> *** Tony joined the game 16:41:39 <PublicServer> <Narc> Yah, I see the reason for it. 16:41:54 <PublicServer> <Narc> Though it effectively means it's not really the spiral hub anymore. 16:42:02 <PublicServer> *** PenKnight has left the game (leaving) 16:42:02 <PublicServer> *** PenKnight has left the game (connection lost) 16:42:08 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> well it still IS, its just improved for everyones sanity sake 16:42:25 <PublicServer> *** Tony has left the game (leaving) 16:42:25 <PublicServer> *** Tony has left the game (connection lost) 16:42:27 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> every line hooks directly into every exit, and then gigatnic mergers at the end 16:42:34 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> thats the spiral hub 16:42:37 <KenjiE20> I thought the idea was to test the layout on the blog 16:42:41 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> doesnt need to actually LOOK like a spiral 16:42:48 <PublicServer> *** Tony joined the game 16:42:48 <narc> KenjiE20: That's what I was thinking, too. 16:42:48 <KenjiE20> not the layout + anything we feel like tacking on? 16:43:03 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> its the exact same layout, but optimized 16:43:12 <KenjiE20> then it's not the EXACT 16:43:21 <PublicServer> <Tony> Ok. OpenGFX, as a base graphics set, still has a way to go. Too many black squares 16:43:33 <KenjiE20> Tony, hence aplha 16:43:36 <KenjiE20> alpha* 16:43:46 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> the "graphs" of where a train starts and exit is still identical 16:43:47 *** PenKnight has quit IRC 16:43:49 <PublicServer> <Narc> Aye, but the black square buildings are nicely ignorable. 16:43:58 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> wich is why we put them on 100% transparency 16:44:03 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> all cities, 16:44:08 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> then all industries at just transparent 16:44:09 <KenjiE20> not the point 16:44:15 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> makes everything more viewable 16:44:21 <PublicServer> <Narc> My personal opinion is that the extra bypasses are an extra complication, but probably upgrade the hub's capacity quite a bit. 16:44:32 <KenjiE20> if the intention was to test the layout. the layout diagram should've been followed 16:44:43 <PublicServer> <Narc> At least they do if there are many trains using the bypasses. 16:44:59 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> thraxian added the bypasses anyway 16:44:59 <KenjiE20> if you add stuff to it, you're not testing the layout anymore 16:45:04 <KenjiE20> you're testing a new layout 16:45:13 <PublicServer> <Narc> But I thought the idea was testing the layout, i.e. the spiral hub, to see at what point it overloads. 16:45:24 <PublicServer> <Narc> As Kenji said, we're not really testing that anymore. 16:45:28 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> narc, it wont ever overload :P 16:45:33 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> it all depends on the mergers at the end 16:45:37 <PublicServer> <Narc> Sure it will. Everything overloads. 16:45:42 <PublicServer> <Narc> Sooner or later. 16:45:43 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> what you're TESTING is the mergers at the end 16:45:48 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> not the junction 16:45:55 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> the junction has no crossovers, no nothing 16:45:58 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> and no breakdowns 16:46:02 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> thus the junction itself will never jam 16:46:19 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> and the exit portion is identical to waht it would have been 16:46:26 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> on the original junction 16:46:40 <PublicServer> <Narc> Not quite identical -- you're merging two sets of tracks: normal exit and the bypass. 16:46:44 <KenjiE20> but by changing it's layout, you've changed the speed stuff arrives at those mergers 16:46:50 <XeryusTC> the junction cant be tested in this game, there is no way that you can overload it 16:46:53 <PublicServer> <Narc> Where as you would only have the normal exit usually. 16:46:57 <KenjiE20> those changing the mechanic of the layout 16:47:16 <PublicServer> <Narc> *whereas. Damn English language :P 16:47:18 <KenjiE20> s/those/thus/ 16:47:19 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> but the bypass route is identical to the normal one 16:47:27 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> cpet you only have to build half as many bridges 16:47:30 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> to go OVER the bypass 16:47:36 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> err. normal lines 16:47:38 <KenjiE20> which changes the nature of those lines 16:47:40 <PublicServer> <Narc> It's three extra tracks the normal route didn't have. 16:47:50 <KenjiE20> thus changing the way things play out 16:48:02 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> no, its 3 tracks moovef rom following thei nside, into following the outside 16:48:17 <XeryusTC> !blog 16:48:17 <PublicServer> XeryusTC: http://www.openttdcoop.org/blog 16:48:18 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> so the bypass is actually LONGER than the original route 16:48:21 <PublicServer> <elmz> is the stuff at the first sign in the sign list acceptable?? 16:48:26 <PublicServer> <Narc> I admit I'm not really seeing it very well. 16:48:35 <Tonyf12> What's the improved loading algorithm in the settings? 16:48:42 <Tonyf12> !help 16:48:42 <KenjiE20> elmz -> useually yes 16:48:42 <PublicServer> Tonyf12: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/IRC_Commands 16:48:50 <KenjiE20> -e 16:48:53 <PublicServer> <Narc> Tony: IIRC, it's AKA gradual loading 16:48:58 <KenjiE20> @man improved loading 16:49:01 <Webster> Improved Loading - OpenTTD - http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=improved%20loading 16:49:38 <PublicServer> <elmz> ah well, I've left my signature, people can flame me later if this sucks :) 16:49:53 <PublicServer> <Narc> Ah, I was wrong, then. 16:50:29 <PublicServer> <Narc> It's the one that says "load fullest vehicles first" 16:51:03 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> really, none of the ESSENCE of the spiral has been lost, its just been modified for the sanity of everyone involved building it 16:51:14 <PublicServer> <Narc> But does that also do gradual loading? 'm not sure from the desc on the wiki. 16:51:16 <XeryusTC> <elmz> is the stuff at the first sign in the sign list acceptable?? <- probably no, the first sign should always be the network plan sign 16:51:19 <XeryusTC> !password 16:51:19 <PublicServer> XeryusTC: buttes 16:51:30 <PublicServer> *** XeryusTC joined the game 16:51:30 <PublicServer> <elmz> I removed it again ^^ 16:51:43 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> its great on FLAT land, but in real games with TERRAIN, you cant actually cram that many bridges and splits 16:51:55 <KenjiE20> heh XeryusTC, two different readings of the same sentence 16:52:03 <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> if you want to say something important use a ! or even an !! sign 16:52:13 <XeryusTC> KenjiE20: ? 16:52:15 <PublicServer> <theholyduck> without some major reconscructive surgery 16:52:22 <KenjiE20> [17:48] <@KenjiE20> elmz -> useually yes 16:52:30 <PublicServer> <elmz> I did a " !! ! Sign" ^^ 16:52:44 <KenjiE20> I read it as he was wondering about the contents of the sign list itself 16:52:46 <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> no spaces in advance ;) 16:52:51 <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> top locations are reserved so the say 16:52:52 <KenjiE20> rather than making a sign, as he is 16:53:08 <XeryusTC> ah ok :P 16:53:11 <Razaekel> !password 16:53:11 <PublicServer> Razaekel: buttes 16:53:22 <KenjiE20> in which case my answer is the same as yours :P 16:53:38 <PublicServer> *** Razaekel joined the game 16:53:43 <PublicServer> <elmz> I didn't mean the sign to be more than a way of people to find the location :) 16:53:52 <KenjiE20> " !! blah !! " signs are reserved for network maps and things 16:54:07 <PublicServer> <elmz> yea, I guessed 16:54:08 <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> well, usually putting a single ! in front is enough 16:54:21 <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> as it will end up somewhere near the top anyway 16:54:23 <KenjiE20> "!blah" > "£/$/%/&/^ blah" in importance 16:54:31 <PublicServer> <elmz> I'll never touch the exclamation marks again :) 16:55:16 <KenjiE20> yea you will 16:55:32 <PublicServer> <elmz> :P 16:56:15 <KenjiE20> btw narc; the 0.3.0 API lets you do a channel monitor style thing, so I went and did one https://savannah.nongnu.org/task/?7404 16:56:17 <PublicServer> *** Razaekel has left the game (leaving) 16:56:17 <Webster> Title: Wee Enhanced Environment for Chat - Tasks: task #7404, display multiple channels in one... [Savannah] (at savannah.nongnu.org) 16:56:17 <PublicServer> *** Razaekel has left the game (connection lost) 16:56:21 <KenjiE20> :P 16:56:39 <narc> Hah, neat. 16:56:58 <KenjiE20> although flash looks to be doing something neat that will means it's not needed 16:57:13 <KenjiE20> depends if it's done before 0.3.0 final though 16:57:29 <narc> I'm noticing that. Neat. 16:57:32 <KenjiE20> which once that gets made stable, I'll be switching to 16:57:47 <KenjiE20> no more hydra :) 16:57:51 <PublicServer> *** Narc has left the game (leaving) 16:57:51 <PublicServer> *** Narc has left the game (connection lost) 16:58:01 <narc> CLI clients rock more anyway :P 16:58:18 <KenjiE20> hehe 16:58:25 <XeryusTC> stupid gnu people with their recursive acronyms 16:58:56 <KenjiE20> in fairness, hydra is still nice and I'll still keep it around, but I won't be using it as the main client 16:59:42 * Tonyf12 uses Opera 17:00:55 <XeryusTC> i need a new client anyway 17:00:59 <PublicServer> <elmz> I want to see trains on this thing ^^ 17:01:08 <XeryusTC> after i put a clean windows install on my pc in 3 weeks time or so 17:01:21 <PublicServer> *** XeryusTC has left the game (connection lost) 17:01:36 <KenjiE20> meh, xchat isn't that bad 17:01:45 <XeryusTC> this is y-chat 17:01:47 <KenjiE20> just rather glitchy under win gtk+ 17:01:53 <XeryusTC> a free windows split from xchat 17:02:02 <narc> I found bersirc to be usable, if not very pretty. 17:02:02 <KenjiE20> it's still xchat tbh 17:02:08 <XeryusTC> and i get verily annoyed by its odd tab complete 17:02:15 <KenjiE20> kvirc isn't too bad 17:02:39 <narc> I like weechat more, though, it's very convenient for my situation. 17:02:53 <Tonyf12> What odd tab complete? 17:02:53 <KenjiE20> the only thing I'll miss on weechat is clickable links 17:02:57 <KenjiE20> but meh 17:03:13 <narc> I don't miss those, the XFCE terminal auto-links. 17:03:22 <narc> Same as GNOME terminal, IIRC. 17:03:39 <narc> Not sure if xterm does it also, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did. 17:03:44 <KenjiE20> SSH'ing doeesn't afaik 17:03:46 <narc> Would be a useful extra for putty. 17:03:50 <KenjiE20> unless I missed a setting 17:03:58 <XeryusTC> xchat doesnt have clickable links either, you need to right click them first xD 17:04:11 <XeryusTC> they don't have a default action for it in their context menu :s 17:04:11 *** seandasheep has quit IRC 17:04:11 <KenjiE20> that's not awful though 17:04:19 <narc> It depends what you do your SSH with. PuTTY doesn't look for links in the text it displays. 17:04:22 <KenjiE20> save random misclicks 17:04:35 <KenjiE20> hmm 17:04:55 <KenjiE20> I could always X11 forward openbox with the xfce terminal running 17:05:01 <PublicServer> *** Tony has left the game (leaving) 17:05:02 <PublicServer> *** Tony has left the game (connection lost) 17:05:02 <KenjiE20> but that's probably a bit much 17:05:02 <narc> That'd very likely work. 17:05:14 *** Tonyf12 has left #openttdcoop 17:05:30 <KenjiE20> iirc I saw a link collector for 0.2.6 with networkable actions 17:05:30 <narc> Well, Cygwin X11 server required, so yeah, it's a bit much. 17:05:34 <narc> But works. 17:05:46 <narc> I think. 17:06:49 * XeryusTC goes to try weechat 17:07:19 <KenjiE20> there -> http://weechat.flashtux.org/scripts/urlgrab.py 17:07:33 <narc> I'm very curious if PuTTY can't be convinced to highlight URLs after all. 17:07:45 <KenjiE20> I think I'd need ssh server on windows though 17:07:47 <XeryusTC> no compiled binaries for windows? 17:07:50 <KenjiE20> >.> so it's not much better 17:07:56 <narc> SSH server? Why? 17:07:58 <KenjiE20> nope, runs under cygwin 17:08:11 <XeryusTC> hmm, too bad 17:08:16 <KenjiE20> since it uses curses 17:08:22 <XeryusTC> my cygwin is even more broken than my xchat 17:08:27 <PublicServer> *** Mark joined the game 17:08:27 <XeryusTC> although that's mainly for compiling :P 17:08:32 <KenjiE20> narc; it uses ssh to send a remotecmd 17:08:33 <narc> Oh, right. You want to send URLs to your win box. 17:08:36 <narc> Yah. 17:08:55 <narc> Probably easier to go for the Cygwin X11 server and X forwarding. 17:08:58 <PublicServer> <Mark> bah 17:09:01 <PublicServer> *** Mark has left the game (leaving) 17:09:01 <PublicServer> *** Mark has left the game (connection lost) 17:09:08 <KenjiE20> probably 17:09:37 <PublicServer> <elmz> one question.... 17:09:38 <KenjiE20> although running X11 even with openbox wm is still something I'd rather not do on that box 17:09:51 <narc> Run it without a WM. 17:09:52 <PublicServer> <elmz> why must ALL bridges be doubled? 17:09:59 <narc> You only need the terminal to run, right? 17:10:01 * KenjiE20 wonders if theres an alt to putty 17:10:02 <XeryusTC> oh, all this reminds me that i should grab ubuntu :P 17:10:08 <Mark> only ML bridges must be doubled 17:10:17 <KenjiE20> elmz, cause it screws with the ML flow 17:10:23 <narc> XTC: Yah, Ubuntu is great. 17:10:36 <XeryusTC> mark that makes it sound like sl bridges must not be doubled 17:10:46 <PublicServer> <elmz> you double 4 tile bridges, yet somewhere you only double 10 tile bridges ^^ 17:10:48 <KenjiE20> narc; forwarding needs the host apps to run on the server, i.e. x11 server, WM, app 17:10:51 <hylje> there are some putty forks which did url highlighting 17:10:56 <Mark> XeryusTC: usually not 17:10:58 <XeryusTC> narc: i hope it works better than my previous experiences with fedora core did 17:10:59 <hylje> namely nutty, but i recall it's old 17:11:08 <narc> KenjiE20: So use TWM, or some other really crappy wm. 17:11:10 <KenjiE20> so PuTTy 17:11:13 <XeryusTC> mark: i meant like, they never ever may be doubled 17:11:15 <XeryusTC> as a rule 17:11:23 <XeryusTC> not as in you can do so, but you dont have to :P 17:11:24 <narc> You only need the terminal to display, nyet? 17:11:30 <KenjiE20> openbox, is pretty much the lightest vm I've seen 17:11:38 <KenjiE20> wm* 17:11:42 <narc> I'm thinking xmonad might be even lighter. 17:11:49 <Mark> all right: "ML bridges should always be doubled, and SL if needed" 17:11:51 <theholyduck> openbox uses the MOST HORRIBLE xml config format 17:11:53 <theholyduck> EVER 17:11:56 <narc> twm is extremely light, it does almost nothing. 17:11:57 <KenjiE20> still X11 is a mem hog on this box 17:12:04 <theholyduck> like seriously 17:12:19 <narc> Well, X is X. 17:12:21 <KenjiE20> that's why obconf exists 17:12:31 <theholyduck> KenjiE20, cept the openbox menu tool is rubbish 17:12:38 <KenjiE20> no it's not 17:12:38 <theholyduck> and didnt let me do what i wanted with it 17:12:50 <hylje> big resolution = big images = big memory 17:12:53 <theholyduck> so i actually had to edit the menu by hand 17:12:54 <KenjiE20> it's pleasant, and xfce-ish 17:13:07 <theholyduck> well yeah, but the xfce menu tool is even MORE rubbish 17:13:14 <theholyduck> as in the tool for making 100% custom menus 17:13:26 <theholyduck> you cant actually specify all item types for the xfce menu IN the menu editor 17:13:31 <theholyduck> if you want some of the more cool options 17:13:45 <theholyduck> you literally have to dig out your text editor and face the horror that is editing xml by hand 17:14:28 <theholyduck> but there is no good reason why they couldnt use a human readable plain text format? 17:14:31 <theholyduck> like fluxbod does 17:14:36 <theholyduck> *fluxbox 17:14:47 <theholyduck> xml as a configuration format should DIE 17:15:00 <narc> Aye, definitely agree to that. 17:15:22 <narc> XML is unnecessarily complex for configuration files. 17:15:28 <narc> And verbose. 17:15:32 <theholyduck> narc, and a horrible pain to type out by hand 17:15:34 <XeryusTC> theholyduck: xml is meant to be human readable 17:15:38 <planetmaker> hehe. In principle xml IS human readable. It's just blowing things up wrt size. 17:15:38 <theholyduck> XeryusTC, MENT yes 17:15:44 <narc> XML is not meant to be human-editable. 17:15:54 <narc> Readable, yes -- editable, no. 17:16:01 <theholyduck> XeryusTC, it invovles a horrible amount of typing and <> and /'< 17:16:03 <theholyduck> etc 17:16:17 <theholyduck> in fluxbox you have a ultra simple menu format, without end tags 17:16:18 <theholyduck> etc 17:16:20 <planetmaker> yes. readable. Not editable. That's the good destinction IMO :) 17:16:21 <XeryusTC> well, that's what you get for sgml based languages 17:16:33 <narc> Of course, since we're programmers, we can still force ourselves to do it, but we're the same people who write HTML by hand. 17:16:47 <XeryusTC> but indeed, editable is a bit hard 17:16:49 <planetmaker> otoh xml is WAY more flexible than many config languages. 17:16:59 <narc> It is, but do you *need* that flexibility? 17:17:01 <theholyduck> planetmaker, but who needs it when you're writing a config? 17:17:19 <theholyduck> i mean, if systems shipped PERFECT editing tools 17:17:22 <theholyduck> that were nice and usabel 17:17:33 <theholyduck> i wouldnt care so much about what they stored the stuff in on the backend 17:17:37 <narc> Consider the config method XULRunner uses -- a bunch of Javascript instructions: SetConfig('key', 'value') 17:18:05 <theholyduck> but openbox and xfce's are both rubbish at letting me do what i want with the configs 17:18:05 <narc> (and a bunch of other details not worth mentioning) 17:18:08 <KenjiE20> oooh http://haanstra.eu/putty/ 17:18:09 <Webster> Title: PuTTY Tray (at haanstra.eu) 17:18:13 <XeryusTC> i still prefer ini based formats for config 17:18:22 <XeryusTC> or something like narc just said indeed 17:18:42 <narc> Ha, that looks perfect, Kenji. 17:18:47 <KenjiE20> indeed 17:18:50 <planetmaker> ini based formats are best IMO for configuration. At least if the user is supposed to be able to edit it... 17:18:52 <XeryusTC> i usually just make my configs in the scripting languages if i use one 17:19:03 <KenjiE20> esp. since PuTTY hasn't been updated in what? 2, 3 years? 17:19:13 <XeryusTC> that way you can just call a bunch of SetConfig('key', 'value') thingies 17:19:19 <narc> I usually use INI format, mostly because pretty much all languages can read it cheaply. 17:19:21 <theholyduck> [exec] (ApplicationName) {/path/to/program} </path/to/icon> 17:19:22 <theholyduck> = <3 17:19:28 <theholyduck> nice and simple and copy-pastable 17:19:34 <narc> (see PHP's parse_ini_file('/path/to/config')) 17:19:37 <theholyduck> since you dont have to wory about where things start and end 17:20:04 <theholyduck> you dont actually need the path to program either :P 17:20:07 <planetmaker> convince the programmer of that programme ;) 17:20:07 <KenjiE20> 2007-04-29 PuTTY 0.60 is released <--- 2 aparantly 17:21:24 <KenjiE20> hm, mind you tray's not much better 17:21:31 <KenjiE20> meh 17:21:44 <narc> Yay, hyperlinks in PuTTY. 17:22:05 *** mixrin has quit IRC 17:22:12 <narc> Of course, I'm starting to really hate Courier New. 17:22:31 <KenjiE20> roll on html5 and embeddable fonts 17:23:23 <theholyduck> embedable fonts have their uses :P 17:23:32 <theholyduck> its one of the strenghts of the .mkv video format 17:23:39 <theholyduck> the fact that you can embedd arbritary data 17:23:51 <KenjiE20> yes, (mkv is a container btw) 17:23:54 <theholyduck> sure 17:23:58 <theholyduck> i MENT container 17:24:11 <KenjiE20> ofc 17:24:12 <theholyduck> i dunno why i said video 17:24:57 <KenjiE20> oh cool, putty tray is just a putty.exe replacement 17:24:57 <theholyduck> now you can even get mplayers with propper ordered chapter supports 17:25:02 *** mixrin has joined #openttdcoop 17:25:02 <KenjiE20> heh, win 17:25:08 <theholyduck> wich is really nice 17:25:20 <narc> Hrm. Can I get the Monospace font from Linux into Windows? Let's find out... 17:25:23 <theholyduck> the 1 last reason to detest mkv is gone :P 17:26:02 <KenjiE20> heh, probably narc 17:26:30 <theholyduck> KenjiE20, so, do you like ordered chaptes? 17:27:12 <KenjiE20> depends what I'm watching and how 17:27:26 <theholyduck> well orderd chapters is not chapter points :P 17:27:40 <theholyduck> incase we misunderstood eachother 17:28:00 <theholyduck> its the ability to insert a external videofile at any moment of the videofile you're playing 17:28:18 <theholyduck> so like you could have 1 set of series intro/ending 17:28:25 <theholyduck> and then just link it into all the episodes 17:28:25 <KenjiE20> oh right that 17:28:52 <KenjiE20> it's useful for sure, but I've only seen two series subbers do it, and both series seem to have stalled 17:29:07 <theholyduck> well kurenai and freedom both had them 17:29:08 <KenjiE20> so I've never actually used it 17:29:09 <narc> Muh? FreeMono isn't monospaced? 17:29:17 <KenjiE20> lol 17:29:21 <narc> No, really. 17:29:30 <narc> That's downright confusing. 17:29:31 <theholyduck> and some dvd rip groups are using it aswell 17:30:33 <KenjiE20> why would you do it for freedom? The only bit is the 1:20min intro 17:30:42 <KenjiE20> and there was a grand total of 6 eps 17:30:50 <theholyduck> and the outro? 17:30:50 <KenjiE20> seems mildly pointless 17:30:58 <theholyduck> they had 3 diffrent ops and 3 diffrent eds i think 17:30:59 <KenjiE20> outro was different each ep 17:31:05 <theholyduck> no, only every OTHEr ep 17:31:12 <theholyduck> same for intros 17:31:15 <theholyduck> they changed every other ep 17:31:16 <theholyduck> or so 17:31:19 <KenjiE20> each ED had scenes from that epp 17:31:21 <KenjiE20> =p 17:31:21 <theholyduck> ah 17:31:24 <KenjiE20> *-p 17:31:26 <theholyduck> but each op was every other ep 17:31:27 <theholyduck> anyways 17:31:29 <theholyduck> thora subbed it 17:31:32 <theholyduck> in HIGH BITRATE 17:31:34 <theholyduck> hd 17:31:40 <theholyduck> so they saved a fair bit of space actually 17:31:43 <KenjiE20> meh I got the HDTV rips 17:31:52 <KenjiE20> 368Mb per iirc 17:31:54 <theholyduck> hmm, i dont htink those existed? 17:31:56 <theholyduck> as in subbed anyway 17:32:02 <theholyduck> yoroshiku did the dvd rips 17:32:09 <theholyduck> then theora did half the hd-dvd rips 17:32:15 <KenjiE20> [AF-F_Y-F]_Freedom_-_04_[H264-AC3][72F415ED].mkv 17:32:16 <theholyduck> then theora redid all the eps from bluray 17:32:19 <theholyduck> with orderd chapters 17:32:23 <theholyduck> KenjiE20, those are dvd rips 17:32:40 <theholyduck> freedom never aired on tv 17:32:52 <KenjiE20> good point 17:33:04 <theholyduck> actually, it was the first and last series as far as i know 17:33:12 <theholyduck> to air on a dvd-hddvd hybrid 17:33:14 <KenjiE20> still 720x480 17:33:17 <KenjiE20> good enough for me 17:33:19 *** [alt]buster has joined #openttdcoop 17:33:24 <KenjiE20> and my lappy won't choke on them either 17:33:37 <theholyduck> as in, in a dvdplayer it would play as dvd 17:33:45 <theholyduck> and on a hd-dvdplayer it would play as hd-dvd 17:34:01 <theholyduck> same disk 17:34:01 <theholyduck> :P 17:34:12 <KenjiE20> wasn't that the point of ALL hd-dvd discs anyway 17:34:24 <theholyduck> KenjiE20, i dont think that many actually used it 17:34:30 <theholyduck> well im fairly sure it was the last 17:34:40 <theholyduck> they DID finish the series as hd-dvd 17:34:40 *** mixrin has quit IRC 17:34:45 <theholyduck> but the format was dead then 17:35:19 <theholyduck> KenjiE20, the reason the yoroshiku releases had such a GIGANTIC break in the middle 17:35:28 <theholyduck> were because their tl for that series 17:35:31 <theholyduck> got pregnant 17:35:47 <KenjiE20> and I care about that break because? 17:35:49 <theholyduck> and they didnt want to change tls for consitency :P 17:35:53 <hylje> ANIMUUU 17:35:56 <theholyduck> hylje, :P 17:35:59 <theholyduck> KenjiE20, i dunn 17:36:01 <theholyduck> o 17:36:25 <KenjiE20> if I wanted speed I'd murder my brain on DB, but I don't 17:37:25 <narc> Yay, found it (I think). Font is Liberation Mono. 17:37:28 * XeryusTC slaps theholyduck around a bit with Trigun 17:37:35 *** KenjiE20|SSH has joined #openttdcoop 17:37:47 <KenjiE20|SSH> someone poke a lin... nvm better idea 17:37:52 <KenjiE20|SSH> !grf 17:37:52 <PublicServer> KenjiE20|SSH: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/GRF (Version 7.3) 17:37:57 <KenjiE20|SSH> awesome 17:38:24 <KenjiE20|SSH> that's that little niggle removed 17:38:28 *** KenjiE20|SSH has quit IRC 17:39:07 *** [com]buster has quit IRC 17:39:07 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 17:39:29 *** mixrin has joined #openttdcoop 17:39:39 * KenjiE20 pokes torrents 17:39:46 <KenjiE20> speed up! 17:39:54 <XeryusTC> hmm 17:40:14 <XeryusTC> i wonder if my new game should involve AIs 17:40:25 * KenjiE20 wants to screw with little people's lives 17:40:29 <KenjiE20> :P 17:40:31 <theholyduck> take a whole bunch of diffrent ones? 17:40:35 <theholyduck> and see wich is best? 17:41:09 <XeryusTC> grfpack is huuuuuge 17:41:44 <KenjiE20> 17mb isn't that big 17:42:00 <theholyduck> all the stuff in bananas is like. 100mb? 17:42:01 <theholyduck> or so :P 17:42:03 <theholyduck> ++ 17:42:38 <XeryusTC> well, i can remember the time where the grfpack were just 11 newgrfs :P 17:42:40 <KenjiE20> I've seen 500mb touted around #openttd before 17:42:40 <theholyduck> scenarios and heightmap is probally the bulk of it 17:43:01 <XeryusTC> but then again, for the amount of sets that's in the pack it isnt that big 17:43:04 <XeryusTC> but i dont use most of them :P 17:43:39 <KenjiE20> lol QNet is horribly laggy 17:43:45 <KenjiE20> getting burst of 8 messages 17:44:03 <theholyduck> :O 17:44:08 <theholyduck> i prefer rizon's netsplits 17:44:34 <theholyduck> pluss, Qnet is full of gamer trash 17:45:49 <XeryusTC> maybe it's me, but isnt that the idea of qnet? 17:46:39 <theholyduck> stick all the gamer trash there? 17:46:47 <theholyduck> so we dont have to deal with them on all the more sane irc networks? 17:47:51 <XeryusTC> indeed 17:47:58 <XeryusTC> except from the channel your currently in :P 17:48:29 <narc> Hrm, Project Natal is interesting. 17:49:08 *** mixrin has quit IRC 17:50:14 *** mixrin has joined #openttdcoop 17:50:38 <theholyduck> narc, that video seems more than a little bit fake 17:51:27 <narc> It's hard to believe natural language and body language recognition reaching that far, is it? 17:52:30 <theholyduck> well more the fact that that they dont seem, entirely 17:52:32 <theholyduck> in to it? 17:52:46 <XeryusTC> which video 17:52:47 <theholyduck> and ithe movements on the screen mirrors TOO correctly :P 17:52:47 <XeryusTC> ? 17:52:49 <KenjiE20> hehe Natal 17:52:55 <theholyduck> onto what they do on the screen 17:52:57 <theholyduck> err 17:53:02 <theholyduck> infront of it 17:53:05 <KenjiE20> we're not trawling the depths of gaming peripharels 17:53:07 <KenjiE20> oh no 17:53:07 <narc> You just need a good camera for the mirror. 17:53:17 <narc> To work properly, I mean. 17:53:31 <narc> It's doable. Extremely processing-intensive, but doable. 17:53:47 <theholyduck> narc, sure if they had some sort of tracking dots on joints 17:53:50 <theholyduck> i'd be more convinced 17:54:00 <theholyduck> thats how profesional motion capture is done 17:54:09 <narc> But tracking joints isn't necessary. 17:54:15 <theholyduck> but for it to cope with arbiratay clothing 17:54:20 <narc> It's just capturing an image and determining where the hands are. 17:54:30 <theholyduck> narc, no, it tracks your ENTIRE body :P 17:54:32 <narc> It probably doesn't work very well with skin-color clothing. 17:54:35 <theholyduck> all your movements affect it :P 17:54:41 <theholyduck> or so it says 17:54:43 <narc> No, it only projects the picture of your entire body. 17:54:59 <narc> It needs to track big parts: head, hands, torso. 17:54:59 <theholyduck> little boy playing godzilla 17:55:17 <narc> At least, based on the video I'm looking at. 17:55:18 <PublicServer> *** SmatZ has left the game (connection lost) 17:55:26 <theholyduck> it SEEMS to react to foot movents 17:55:34 <theholyduck> and FULLY BODY MOTION CAPTURE 17:55:38 <theholyduck> is in the marketing blurb 17:55:42 <PublicServer> *** SmatZ joined the game 17:55:56 <narc> Hrm. 17:56:10 <theholyduck> narc, i mean i could belive just tracking the scincolored faces and hands 17:56:12 <PublicServer> <SmatZ> good evening :) 17:56:17 <theholyduck> we got open source software that cando that easily 17:56:23 <narc> Heya, SmatZ! :) 17:56:35 <PublicServer> <SmatZ> hello narc! :) 17:56:51 <XeryusTC> hmm, link to video maybe? 17:56:58 <narc> theholyduck: I was looking at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDvHlwNvXaM which seems to track only hands. 17:56:59 <Webster> Title: YouTube - E3 2009 - Project Natal - Milo Demo with Peter Molyneux 720p HD (at www.youtube.com) 17:57:04 <narc> Yes, that. 17:57:14 <theholyduck> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_txF7iETX0 narc 17:57:15 <narc> I think I like the 'bot. 17:57:16 <Webster> Title: YouTube - Project Natal (at www.youtube.com) 17:57:21 <theholyduck> now lets switch 17:57:47 <narc> Yours says clearly "Product vision: Features and details may vary" 17:57:53 <theholyduck> still :P 17:58:03 <theholyduck> what it shows is impossible :P 17:58:04 <theholyduck> for now 17:58:09 <narc> Still, nothing. My video shows what it actually does do. 17:58:15 <narc> And it's a good start. 17:58:23 <PublicServer> *** theholyduck has left the game (connection lost) 17:58:37 <georg> !password 17:58:37 <PublicServer> georg: evades 17:58:47 <PublicServer> *** georg joined the game 17:59:28 <PublicServer> *** elmz has left the game (connection lost) 17:59:29 <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players) 17:59:45 <theholyduck> narc, still seems a bit scripted 18:00:01 <narc> It is scripted, but at least it doesn't seem impossible. 18:00:17 <PublicServer> *** SmatZ has left the game (leaving) 18:00:17 <PublicServer> *** SmatZ has left the game (connection lost) 18:00:36 <narc> What strikes me is that it's a lot like an extension of the Wiimote idea. 18:01:11 <narc> They'll probably end up requiring you to wear special shoes and gloves, or else requiring you to train the software to recognize body parts from pictures taken by the camera. 18:03:05 <elmz> !password 18:03:05 <PublicServer> elmz: evades 18:03:17 <PublicServer> *** elmz joined the game 18:03:27 <narc> I think, with good enough hardware and software, it's very doable. Take a few years for the hardware to become mainstream, but why not? 18:03:58 <PublicServer> *** georg has left the game (leaving) 18:03:58 <PublicServer> *** georg has left the game (connection lost) 18:04:09 <XeryusTC> hmm, it's quite possible to do something like that 18:04:43 <XeryusTC> i've been "backstage" (they were still building) at a theatre company once who had 3 very strong beamers to project images on their actors 18:05:07 <XeryusTC> and they kept track of their actors by suspending a ir camera like 15 meters above the stage 18:05:25 <narc> Hm, yah, I hadn't thought of that. 18:05:41 <XeryusTC> before each show they made a picture of the stage as a null picture and they had software which detected changes in the picture as movement of the actors 18:05:48 <XeryusTC> and apparently it was very accurate 18:06:15 <narc> It's actually a much better idea than trying to figure out which part of a picture is a person's hands or whatnot. 18:06:41 <theholyduck> wont work if background temps are high though? 18:07:01 <theholyduck> clammy party or japan during a heatwave without aircon 18:07:02 <narc> Would have to be so high that you'd be cooked and not really feeling like playing a game, wouldn't it? 18:07:11 <theholyduck> narc, only 40 degrees :P 18:07:17 <theholyduck> you can get that atleast outdoors :P 18:07:18 <XeryusTC> theholyduck: apparently it worked in a huge tent in the middle of summer :P 18:07:42 <theholyduck> narc, but lets say 18:07:43 <XeryusTC> but they use ir to negate the effects of the ever changing lights on a stage 18:07:45 *** elmex has quit IRC 18:07:50 <narc> The background temp would have to match body temperature pretty precisely. 18:07:55 <theholyduck> if the sun shone in your window 18:07:58 <theholyduck> onto your coach :p 18:08:02 <theholyduck> for a while 18:08:07 <theholyduck> that would heat up significantly 18:08:10 <theholyduck> to close to or above body temp 18:08:15 <narc> Then the couch will be hot, but it won't look human. 18:08:20 <narc> In shape. 18:08:26 <theholyduck> but it will still give off ir 18:08:27 <narc> Probably not in temperature, either. 18:08:30 <theholyduck> wich makes tracking harder 18:08:31 <narc> Of course. 18:08:33 <XeryusTC> narc: the software doesnt know what is human and what isnt :P 18:08:45 <theholyduck> narc, once you have to track ir in the shape of a human 18:08:48 <theholyduck> it gets more complex 18:08:52 <theholyduck> and strenght of ir 18:08:53 <theholyduck> etc 18:09:02 <XeryusTC> but you have to match the temperature within the margin of error that is written into the program 18:09:09 <narc> Well, you need smart signal analysis to really do the body recognition thing well in the first place. 18:09:12 <theholyduck> XeryusTC, still. it COULD happen? 18:09:17 <narc> It's doable. 18:09:21 <XeryusTC> it could though 18:09:24 <theholyduck> narc, well it would still throw it off 18:09:35 <narc> Of course, but it can be worked around. 18:09:43 <XeryusTC> but then again, some ir cameras are not displaying heat images but normal images but more greenish etc 18:10:15 <theholyduck> XeryusTC, those arent ir 18:10:23 <theholyduck> those are light amplification 18:10:29 <theholyduck> green = light amplification 18:10:32 <theholyduck> black and white = ir 18:10:44 <theholyduck> sure hollywood doesnt actually do it like that 18:10:48 <narc> Infrared is a color. 18:10:50 <theholyduck> but thats how it is in THE REAL world 18:10:53 <XeryusTC> hmm, ok 18:11:11 <theholyduck> narc, well you CAN get ir color aswell, but almost all portable/used equipment 18:11:12 <XeryusTC> but well, they usually claim it to be ir on cameras and such 18:11:18 <theholyduck> especially military, is black/white 18:11:35 <narc> The only way to see infrared is to take the image from a camera that can see IR and shift it around. 18:11:40 <XeryusTC> but my point being, not all ir cameras are meant to measure heat 18:11:41 <narc> At that point, you can make it look any color. 18:12:27 <narc> IR is heat. 18:12:53 <narc> When you measure infrared radiation, you're measuring heat emissions. 18:13:29 <narc> Everything whose temperature is above zero absolute is glowing in infrared. 18:13:35 <XeryusTC> so when gravitation pull is so strong that you get red shifting then the lowest reds would actually turn into just heat? 18:13:52 <narc> Pretty much. 18:14:04 <narc> And the ultraviolets will turn into violets, then blues, etc. 18:14:13 <narc> Blueshifting goes the other way. 18:14:22 <narc> And makes infrared into red and so on. 18:14:50 <XeryusTC> i know, but a photon changing from visible light into head just because of gravitational pull is quite hard to believe :P 18:14:50 *** [com]buster has quit IRC 18:14:56 <narc> Travelling at significant fractions of c would allow you to view both phenomena. 18:15:00 <XeryusTC> as they're considered different types of energy 18:15:19 *** [com]buster has joined #openttdcoop 18:15:19 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o [com]buster 18:15:20 <narc> What's hard to believe? Gravitational pull imparts more kinetic energy onto the photon. 18:16:02 <narc> Since the photon HAS to move at c, the only way it can show the extra energy is by shifting the color, which itself is just a vibration of the photon. 18:16:19 <narc> That is, color is a measure of the amount of vibration. 18:16:57 <narc> As is heat -- heat is also vibration, but in particles of non-negligible mass, you don't get the same spectrum that photons have. 18:17:05 <narc> All the above is assuming I understand things correctly. 18:17:11 <narc> I was never a physics whiz. 18:17:34 <XeryusTC> true, but certain high frequency types of ir are still considered a colour, even though they're not visible by the naked eye 18:17:41 <narc> So anyone who knows better can go ahead and correct me. 18:18:03 <narc> Gamma rays are a colour, too, if you want to put it that way. 18:18:04 <XeryusTC> and heat is a odd thing to properly define, or i just dont remember it correctly 18:18:08 <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (enough players) 18:18:11 <PublicServer> *** Plimmer has left the game (connection lost) 18:18:12 <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players) 18:18:12 <narc> Same as X rays, etc. 18:18:54 <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (enough players) 18:18:58 <PublicServer> *** Player has left the game (connection lost) 18:18:58 <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players) 18:19:02 <XeryusTC> yes, but they aren't considered a color, some types of ir and uv are 18:19:10 <XeryusTC> when they closely border to the visible light spectrum 18:19:23 <narc> Colours are just pieces of the electromagnetic spectrum. 18:19:32 <narc> A subset of the EM spectrum is visible light. 18:19:40 <XeryusTC> yeah i know 18:19:48 <narc> Pieces near the visible light spectrum are IR and UV. 18:20:02 <narc> Literally, below red, and above violet. 18:20:46 <narc> And IR also happens to be the frequency that objects radiating heat use to, um, radiate their heat. 18:21:19 <narc> (frequency or spectrum, the latter is more accurate, I think) 18:21:49 <XeryusTC> http://xkcd.com/273/ 18:21:50 <Webster> Title: xkcd - A Webcomic - Electromagnetic Spectrum (at xkcd.com) 18:22:08 <XeryusTC> but well, not the entire ir spectrum is considered a colour 18:22:09 <XeryusTC> iirc 18:23:58 <narc> No, but you can go ahead and consider it as such. 18:24:17 <narc> It just feels weird to call it "some FM station's colour" so we use frequency instead. 18:24:30 *** theholyduck_ has joined #openttdcoop 18:25:00 <narc> It's a question of terminology, really. 18:25:15 <XeryusTC> well, yes, that's why we only call a part of the irc spectrum colour, but it may also have to do with what the sun radiates and what not 18:25:49 <narc> That makes sense. 18:31:00 *** Polygon has quit IRC 18:31:17 *** theholyduck has quit IRC 18:35:44 *** mensi has joined #openttdcoop 18:35:56 <mensi> !players 18:35:58 <PublicServer> mensi: Client 1184 (Orange) is elmz, in company 1 (OTTDC) 18:36:01 <KenjiE20> http://xkcd.com/591/ <-- haha 18:36:02 <Webster> Title: xkcd - A Webcomic - Troll Slayer (at xkcd.com) 18:38:06 <XeryusTC> heh yeah 18:41:27 *** LittleBoyRick has joined #openttdcoop 18:41:45 <XeryusTC> also, webster is annoying 18:41:59 <LittleBoyRick> !password 18:42:00 <PublicServer> LittleBoyRick: tucked 18:42:15 <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (enough players) 18:42:19 <PublicServer> *** LittleBoyRick joined the game 18:42:24 *** seandasheep has joined #openttdcoop 18:43:50 <seandasheep> !players 18:43:52 <PublicServer> seandasheep: Client 1188 (Orange) is LittleBoyRick, in company 1 (OTTDC) 18:43:52 <PublicServer> seandasheep: Client 1184 (Orange) is elmz, in company 1 (OTTDC) 18:45:21 *** SineDeviance has joined #openttdcoop 18:47:59 <PublicServer> <LittleBoyRick> This map is hard on my eyes x_x 18:48:50 <mensi> !password 18:48:51 <PublicServer> mensi: tucked 18:49:02 <PublicServer> *** mensi joined the game 18:51:08 <PublicServer> <LittleBoyRick> I do like the plan Thrax made. 18:57:11 <PublicServer> *** LittleBoyRick has left the game (leaving) 18:57:11 <PublicServer> *** LittleBoyRick has left the game (connection lost) 18:58:00 *** LittleBoyRick has quit IRC 18:59:06 <PublicServer> *** mensi has left the game (leaving) 18:59:07 <PublicServer> *** mensi has left the game (connection lost) 18:59:07 <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players) 19:02:04 <PublicServer> *** elmz has left the game (connection lost) 19:03:38 <KenjiE20> god damn you Toblerone, why are you such a bugger to break up 19:03:45 <KenjiE20> also, mmmm Toblerone 19:04:26 *** SmatZ has quit IRC 19:04:52 *** SmatZ has joined #openttdcoop 19:04:52 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o SmatZ 19:06:54 <Ammler> KenjiE20: don't eat our mountains :P 19:07:03 <KenjiE20> omnomnom 19:07:14 <SmatZ> :-D 19:11:04 *** elmex has joined #openttdcoop 19:29:54 *** theholyduck_ is now known as theholyduck 19:32:55 <PublicServer> *** Thraxian|Work joined the game 19:33:44 <PublicServer> *** Thraxian|Work has left the game (leaving) 19:33:45 <PublicServer> *** Thraxian|Work has left the game (connection lost) 19:37:07 *** [com]buster has quit IRC 19:37:27 *** [com]buster has joined #openttdcoop 19:37:27 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o [com]buster 19:39:16 <KenjiE20> ping Mark 19:44:16 *** Misza has quit IRC 19:48:50 *** seandasheep has quit IRC 19:55:41 *** StarLite has quit IRC 19:58:56 <Webster> Latest update from openttd: OpenTTD 0.7.1-RC3 <http://www.openttd.org/en/news/94> 20:01:07 *** narc has quit IRC 20:01:32 *** narc has joined #openttdcoop 20:05:35 *** mixrin has quit IRC 20:06:49 *** Misza has joined #openttdcoop 20:11:45 *** Polygon has joined #openttdcoop 20:14:51 <SmatZ> !players 20:14:53 <PublicServer> SmatZ: There are currently no clients connected to the server 20:16:31 <Mark> KenjiE20: pong 20:16:37 <KenjiE20> hey 20:16:41 <Mark> hello :) 20:16:42 <KenjiE20> RCT3 20:17:04 <Mark> what's with it? 20:17:18 <KenjiE20> Ostrich Farm Plains, is it me, or is it impossible to paint the same terrain back? 20:17:39 <Mark> i doubt it's impossible 20:17:47 <Mark> i didn't do the career, though 20:17:54 <KenjiE20> well the base one seems to be a mix of mud and light sand 20:18:11 <Mark> lemme see 20:19:20 <XeryusTC> KenjiE20: there was one where you didnt have the proper landscape in the beginning indeed 20:19:29 <XeryusTC> but maybe it's replicable by adding layers or sth 20:19:40 <XeryusTC> or whatever the method of combining landscapes is :P 20:19:45 <KenjiE20> it might be using the blend system 20:20:10 <elmz> !password 20:20:10 <PublicServer> elmz: faints 20:20:12 <KenjiE20> in which case I'd need to alternate tiles 20:20:19 <KenjiE20> uch 20:20:20 <KenjiE20> meh 20:20:21 <PublicServer> *** elmz joined the game 20:21:07 <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (enough players) 20:21:21 <elmz> I wish there was some way to parameterize the amount of trees on a map 20:21:22 <PublicServer> *** SmatZ joined the game 20:21:28 <KenjiE20> yep, that's it 20:21:35 <KenjiE20> bleh 20:21:36 <PublicServer> <SmatZ> helllo 20:22:01 <elmz> I do like trees, but i'd like to have like 20% of what it is today ^^ 20:22:06 <PublicServer> <SmatZ> hmm there are several places that will cause jams :-x 20:22:07 <PublicServer> <elmz> hello 20:22:13 <PublicServer> <elmz> yep 20:22:57 <KenjiE20> it's 50/50 light sand and the first grass tile 20:23:14 <KenjiE20> still doesn't work against the edge tiles, so nuts to i 20:23:16 <PublicServer> <elmz> just point me in the direction of something I can do :) 20:23:16 <KenjiE20> it* 20:24:03 <PublicServer> *** elmz has left the game (connection lost) 20:24:03 <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players) 20:24:09 <PublicServer> *** SmatZ has left the game (leaving) 20:24:09 <PublicServer> *** SmatZ has left the game (connection lost) 20:24:18 <Mark> :) 20:25:04 <PublicServer> *** elmz joined the game 20:26:48 <KenjiE20> ah well 20:26:57 * KenjiE20 goes back to trying to get tycoon on this scen 20:30:41 <KenjiE20> also, the random screams when I make rct3 the active window again is mildly disturbing 20:32:44 *** theholyduck_ has joined #openttdcoop 20:32:49 <De_Ghosty> ooo 20:32:55 <De_Ghosty> roller coaster tycoon? 20:33:02 <KenjiE20> yes 20:33:26 <KenjiE20> mark's been showing off, making me reinstall it 20:33:36 <De_Ghosty> lol 20:33:43 <De_Ghosty> wanna see my park? :) 20:35:20 <KenjiE20> are you going to link it anyway? :P 20:38:12 *** theholyduck has quit IRC 20:38:38 <KenjiE20> you know what would be really nice in rct, transport ride / path crossings 20:39:41 <KenjiE20> especially since in rct3 you have to go up 3 levels instead of 2 20:39:44 <Mark> there's some cheat to disable collision detection 20:40:18 <Mark> though there'd be glitches of course 20:40:50 <Mark> De_Ghosty: show me :P 20:41:25 *** Levi has quit IRC 20:43:14 <PublicServer> <elmz> hum hum hum 20:43:52 <PublicServer> <elmz> does someone want to finish this stuff? ^^ 20:50:01 *** [alt]buster has joined #openttdcoop 20:51:25 *** Wurzel49 has joined #openttdcoop 20:51:31 *** [com]buster has quit IRC 20:51:31 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 20:55:20 *** Thraxian|Work has left #openttdcoop 20:57:52 *** Levi has joined #openttdcoop 21:02:35 <PublicServer> <elmz> ...guess not :( 21:02:51 <PublicServer> *** elmz has left the game (leaving) 21:02:52 <PublicServer> *** elmz has left the game (connection lost) 21:04:29 *** Venxir has quit IRC 21:11:14 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:17:43 *** Plimmer has quit IRC 21:19:34 *** Plimmer has joined #openttdcoop 21:21:47 <tmunkj> !password 21:21:47 <PublicServer> tmunkj: myriad 21:21:57 <PublicServer> *** Tmunkj joined the game 21:24:48 <Mark> !password 21:24:48 <PublicServer> Mark: myriad 21:25:21 <PublicServer> *** Mark has left the game (connection lost) 21:25:25 <Mark> !password 21:25:25 <PublicServer> Mark: domino 21:25:44 <PublicServer> *** Mark joined the game 21:25:45 <PublicServer> <Mark> 'lo 21:26:02 <PublicServer> <Mark> hop in so it unpauses 21:27:21 *** elmz has quit IRC 21:30:41 <PublicServer> *** Tmunkj has joined company #1 21:30:42 <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (enough players) 21:30:52 *** Killian_ has quit IRC 21:31:45 <PublicServer> <Tmunkj> was afk a bit, toyland strains my eyes a bit 21:32:22 <Mark> that joke was funny the first tenthousand times it was made but it's getting a bit annoying now 21:32:45 <KenjiE20> yeah 21:32:56 <gleeb> joke? 21:33:00 <gleeb> Also, Toyland? 21:33:04 <gleeb> We has toyland game? 21:33:18 <XeryusTC> yes 21:33:22 <gleeb> :£ 21:33:22 <XeryusTC> and it sucks 21:33:24 <gleeb> :3 * 21:33:26 <gleeb> No u 21:33:27 <XeryusTC> central hub is way too big :P 21:33:40 <narc> Mark: I don't think it's a joke, toyland really is eye-straining. Too many bright colours. 21:33:52 <gleeb> What's the plan? My PC is too crap to run OpenTTD atm. 21:33:56 <Mark> guess i'm immune then 21:34:01 <narc> Somewhat milder on OpenGFX, though. 21:34:04 <XeryusTC> i'm quite immune too 21:34:16 <KenjiE20> I never really found toyland that bad 21:34:25 <XeryusTC> everytime i see toyland it's more like *blink*blink* "ok, my eyes didn't deceive me, this is toyland" 21:34:40 <XeryusTC> after a while the pattern on the tiles gets annoying though 21:35:39 <theholyduck_> gleeb, gigant davil hub 21:35:39 <planetmaker> indeed :) 21:35:50 <XeryusTC> !archive 21:35:50 <PublicServer> XeryusTC: http://www.openttdcoop.ORG/wiki/PublicServer:Archive | http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/MemberZone:Archive 21:35:50 <theholyduck_> look in the blog 21:35:52 <gleeb> davil? 21:36:05 <theholyduck_> gleeb, new invention 21:36:51 <gleeb> Oh, I see where it gets it's name. 21:36:54 <theholyduck_> its like a non shitty roundabout with mergers on the end 21:37:04 <Mark> nice concept though poorly implented in this game 21:37:10 <gleeb> Yeah, I saw the post. 21:37:18 <Mark> poorly as in it takes 250*350 tiles while 100*100 would do 21:37:25 <gleeb> When you said hub, I though you meant a station. 21:37:36 <PublicServer> *** XeryusTC has left the game (connection lost) 21:37:48 <theholyduck_> Mark if we kill a bunch of towns 21:37:49 <theholyduck_> yes 21:38:04 <theholyduck_> and flatten the world 21:38:11 <Mark> nonsense 21:38:25 <XeryusTC> how not cool 21:38:40 <XeryusTC> the only bbh in psg35 has been stripped down alot in the save game 21:38:52 <gleeb> 35 or 135? 21:38:56 <XeryusTC> 35 21:39:04 <gleeb> Odd 21:39:08 <XeryusTC> if i wanted to say 135 i would've said 135 21:39:39 <XeryusTC> first they converted the express lane to maglev halfway through the game making it look alot simpler than it was 21:39:41 <gleeb> It could have been a type. 21:39:52 <XeryusTC> and then they slim it down to the most essential connections only 21:39:54 *** Plimmer has quit IRC 21:39:57 <gleeb> typo * 21:40:09 *** Plimmer has joined #openttdcoop 21:41:19 <XeryusTC> !password 21:41:19 <PublicServer> XeryusTC: darken 21:41:27 <PublicServer> *** XeryusTC joined the game 21:41:28 <XeryusTC> mark: im with you on the kill towns idea btw 21:42:16 <Mark> the towns aren't even in the way 21:42:34 <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> hmm, maybe not :o 21:43:20 <theholyduck_> as in, you would need to kill a bunch of towns? 21:43:20 <theholyduck_> t 21:43:23 <theholyduck_> *to make room? 21:43:30 <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> how annoying, 7 lanes thick on one side, 9 on the other 21:43:33 <theholyduck_> and various other things in the way 21:43:44 <theholyduck_> XeryusTC, has to be 21:43:47 <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> 12 even 21:43:55 <theholyduck_> XeryusTC, bypasses add up 21:44:05 <theholyduck_> not to mention the number of entrances are uneven 21:44:09 <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> i didnt even count those 21:44:10 <theholyduck_> so some sides will have more lines than others 21:44:12 *** Phoenix_the_II has quit IRC 21:44:17 <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> personally i would've joined some lines like this 21:44:27 *** Phoenix_the_II has joined #openttdcoop 21:45:08 <gleeb> Uneven numbers are not possible. Assuming every in has n-1 outs, the number of lanes should ALWAYS be equal. 21:45:43 <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> n is spurs 21:45:55 <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> or rather, the amount of :P 21:46:10 <gleeb> mmhmm 21:49:26 *** TheODM has quit IRC 21:51:04 <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> lets let a part of the new line go through where dribblepool first was :P 21:51:51 *** [alt]buster has joined #openttdcoop 21:57:31 <Xaroth> XeryusTC: wait for my map, that'll be a BLAST :P 21:57:46 <XeryusTC> toyland? 21:57:50 <Xaroth> god no 21:57:59 <Xaroth> http://194.1.204.204/144.sav 21:58:01 *** [com]buster has quit IRC 21:58:01 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 21:58:56 <KenjiE20> ^ tis a good one that 21:59:25 <Xaroth> yar :) 21:59:37 <Xaroth> had a shot at it, quite hard if you want to put in large networks from the start 21:59:40 <PublicServer> *** XeryusTC #1 has left the game (connection lost) 21:59:43 <Xaroth> take a LOT of mm'ing 22:00:03 <XeryusTC> oh, plan space in the map! 22:00:24 <Xaroth> yep 22:00:41 <KenjiE20> yea, thats a cool 'feature' :P 22:00:49 *** FooBar_ has quit IRC 22:01:09 <XeryusTC> it's a feature, not a bug! 22:01:22 <Xaroth> yeh 22:01:52 <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> ~30, ~50 ~70 tiles shrinkage 22:01:55 <Xaroth> only put in 4, not much room to allow for many different plans 22:02:51 *** Booth has joined #openttdcoop 22:04:33 *** [1]Booth has joined #openttdcoop 22:05:04 *** Booth is now known as Guest441 22:05:04 *** [1]Booth is now known as Booth 22:05:09 <Mark> Xaroth: we always fund our own factories 22:05:16 <Mark> so that's hardly a goal 22:05:30 <Xaroth> Mark: often we locate near already-placed factories and expand 22:05:33 <Xaroth> my map has 0 factories 22:05:49 <Mark> uh? 22:05:51 <Mark> not really 22:06:06 <Mark> unless by "we" you don't mean openttdcoop 22:06:36 <XeryusTC> we use already placed factories for mm only 22:06:52 <XeryusTC> the plan uses own funded factories unless there happen to be one already present 22:09:16 <Xaroth> could swear last few maps we had drops placed at already placed factories 22:09:56 *** theholyduck has joined #openttdcoop 22:09:58 <Mark> well.. you're wrong :P 22:10:22 * Xaroth shrugs 22:10:25 <Booth> i have finaly got a nice height map of the Alps 22:10:44 <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> subtile, very subtile 22:10:52 *** Guest441 has quit IRC 22:10:54 <Mark> is it playable? 22:11:14 <Booth> if you mean finished then 22:11:15 <Booth> no 22:11:38 <Booth> i wasnt sure i should use real town / city placements 22:11:45 <Mark> can you upload the heightmap? 22:11:45 <Booth> or just random towns / cities 22:12:20 <Booth> not to here as i dont have the passwords 22:12:28 <Booth> but could put it my website 22:12:33 <KenjiE20> isn't a heightmap with cities an scn? 22:12:39 <Booth> it is 22:12:53 <PublicServer> *** XeryusTC has left the game (connection lost) 22:12:53 <Booth> a hight map is just an image 22:13:12 <Booth> as soon as you turn it into a map its an scn 22:13:14 <Mark> you could just upload it to Ammler's img thingy 22:13:15 <KenjiE20> then perhaps you should've phrased your sentence better 22:13:26 <Booth> no 22:13:28 <KenjiE20> <Booth> i have finaly got a nice height map of the Alps [to turn into a scenario] 22:13:30 <Booth> its a hieght man 22:13:40 <Booth> nothing on it 22:13:48 <Booth> i just made the image 22:13:51 <Booth> and loaded it 22:13:54 <Booth> and am happy with it 22:14:54 <Booth> KenjiE20: have you ever used a height map to create a scn befor? 22:15:15 <KenjiE20> can't say I have or have an urge to 22:15:22 <KenjiE20> but that's not my point 22:16:01 <KenjiE20> my point is your initial phrasing has led to confusion over your subject matter 22:16:06 <Booth> its relay easy 22:16:19 <Booth> if you wanted to you could make a map of your face 22:16:22 *** theholyduck_ has quit IRC 22:17:56 <mensi> !password 22:17:56 <PublicServer> mensi: disuse 22:18:06 <PublicServer> *** mensi joined the game 22:19:05 <PublicServer> *** mensi has left the game (leaving) 22:19:05 <PublicServer> *** mensi has left the game (connection lost) 22:19:33 <PublicServer> *** Mark has left the game (leaving) 22:19:34 <PublicServer> *** Mark has left the game (connection lost) 22:19:34 <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players) 22:19:58 <PublicServer> *** Tmunkj has left the game (leaving) 22:19:58 <PublicServer> *** Tmunkj has left the game (connection lost) 22:20:21 *** tmunkj has quit IRC 22:20:34 <Mark> bye tmunkj 22:20:36 *** georg has left #openttdcoop 22:20:53 <Xaroth> Booth: i have to see my own face enough already.. don't think i'd want a scn of that :P 22:21:24 <Booth> lol 22:21:25 <Mark> we've considered a map with at least the contours of a human body 22:21:35 <Mark> could still do that 22:22:30 <Booth> hm i dont think it would be that fun 22:22:47 <KenjiE20> oh I do 22:22:51 <KenjiE20> :D 22:22:54 <planetmaker> :) 22:22:57 <XeryusTC> hmm 22:23:07 <Xaroth> [@KenjiE20]: oh I do << he's thinking epeenman 22:23:08 <Booth> the thing with my swiss map is oyu get some flat toped mountains 22:23:17 <XeryusTC> lets make a screenshot of some pron movie with loads of women doing indecent stuff and use that as a heightmap :P 22:23:17 <KenjiE20> lol 22:23:32 <KenjiE20> hmmm, pron in ASCII 22:23:33 <planetmaker> hehe 22:23:50 <XeryusTC> KenjiE20: now that would get me going ;) 22:23:56 <KenjiE20> lol 22:23:57 <Booth> see 2 large mountains could be fun 22:24:09 <KenjiE20> might prod aaxine actually 22:24:13 *** georg has joined #openttdcoop 22:26:08 *** Killian has joined #openttdcoop 22:26:33 <KenjiE20> lulz, it sort of works 22:26:51 <XeryusTC> what, ascii pron? 22:27:02 <KenjiE20> yup 22:27:07 <XeryusTC> oh 22:27:09 <XeryusTC> link? :P 22:27:15 <KenjiE20> lol 22:27:19 <KenjiE20> lemme find a decent still 22:27:23 <KenjiE20> :P 22:28:29 <KenjiE20> unless you've got access to a linux box 22:28:48 <XeryusTC> i do 22:28:59 <XeryusTC> or use pastebin or sth 22:29:08 <KenjiE20> apt-get aaxine 22:29:18 <KenjiE20> or whatever it is for your ditro 22:29:19 <KenjiE20> :P 22:30:17 <XeryusTC> meh, ps' apt doesnt like aaxine :o 22:31:19 <XeryusTC> KenjiE20: can you pastebin it? 22:31:34 <narc> Ahaha, aalib front-end to libxine. Possibly in something like aalib-utils, or whatever. 22:31:50 <KenjiE20> maybe 22:32:05 <XeryusTC> hmm, indeed :P 22:32:20 <KenjiE20> do aalib* 22:32:26 <narc> Let's see if it's in libaa-bin 22:32:42 <KenjiE20> that'll prob be 'bb' the demo thing 22:32:47 <XeryusTC> well, i wont do it on Phoenix_the_II's server :P 22:32:50 <narc> Guess not. 22:32:53 <KenjiE20> lol 22:33:10 <narc> xine-console. 22:33:11 <XeryusTC> and im off to bed 22:33:31 <narc> Includes aaxine, cacaxine and fbxine 22:33:31 *** [com]buster has quit IRC 22:33:44 <Booth> evening narc 22:33:49 <narc> Oi, Booth! 22:33:52 *** [com]buster has joined #openttdcoop 22:33:52 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o [com]buster 22:33:53 <KenjiE20> xer, 2secs 22:34:00 <XeryusTC> hmm 22:34:05 <XeryusTC> use proper highlighting :P 22:34:13 <Booth> long time no see 22:34:37 <narc> Yes, indeed. Thank you for nice email, btw. 22:34:52 <Booth> you never replyed :'( 22:34:57 <narc> Yea, I did. 22:35:11 <Booth> i never got it 22:35:16 <narc> ...when I got home. On Sunday. 22:35:31 <narc> Didn't actually have any internets in Crete. 22:35:51 <Booth> ooh crete 22:35:54 <Booth> has was it 22:35:56 <Booth> bet it was hot 22:36:05 <narc> Aye, so it was. 22:36:10 <Booth> did i give you my correct email address? 22:36:12 <narc> But also beautiful. 22:36:22 <Booth> chris_peter_booth@hotmail dot co dot uk 22:36:26 <narc> Dunno, chris_peter_booth at hotil? 22:36:28 <narc> *hotmail 22:36:31 <narc> Heh. 22:36:34 <narc> Then yes, you did. 22:36:49 <narc> Mebbe it went into spam box. 22:37:13 <Booth> it did 22:37:16 <Booth> stupid thing 22:37:44 <narc> Huh, I don't have gzcat on bast? 22:38:01 <narc> Ah, because it's called zcat. Le oops. 22:38:37 <XeryusTC> gn all 22:38:45 <Booth> gn XTC 22:38:46 <narc> nn, XeryusTC 22:39:18 <narc> There, found it. Mail delivered May 31st at 12:57pm, with "250 <message-id> Queued mail for delivery" 22:39:43 <Booth> i found it now narc 22:39:48 <Booth> and thanks for the reply 22:39:49 <narc> I don't send much mail to hotmail, so I'm not surprised they still put it in spam. 22:39:59 <Booth> but i am not sure how automated the reply was 22:40:10 <Booth> concidering it said it was an automated reply 22:40:36 <narc> Nay, it wasn't. The subject is "Re: playing on coop (was: Automated Notification)". Which, to me, it was. 22:40:46 <narc> Contact form uses that subject, after all. 22:41:01 <Booth> aaah i see 22:41:10 <Booth> good old narc.ro 22:41:21 <narc> Aye. I'm very proud of it. 22:41:32 <Booth> its better than my server 22:41:37 <Booth> which always crashes 22:41:43 <Booth> then takes down my PC 22:41:48 <Booth> and all my VM's 22:42:43 <narc> Hrm. narc.ro crashes during power outages. 22:42:55 <narc> (WAN link goes down) 22:42:58 <Xaroth> nn 22:42:59 <Booth> get some batterys then 22:43:11 <Booth> and erm i can solve the WAN issue 22:43:17 <Booth> as ISP's suck 22:43:17 <narc> If the outage is long enough, the UPSes won't live through it, either. 22:43:33 <narc> Nay, you canna solve the WAN issue, I'm afraid. 22:43:45 <Booth> get 2 WANs 22:43:56 <Booth> from seperate providers 22:44:08 <Booth> loacted in sperate area of the country 22:44:11 <narc> Not gonna help unless the other WAN gets power from a different power distributor. 22:44:13 <narc> Ha. 22:44:52 <Booth> well if they are not in the same location then they may use a different power plant 22:45:02 <Booth> doesnt romainia have a national grid? 22:45:19 <narc> I'd prefer to get my ISP to drop me a nice, long fiber-optic cable instead of the twisted pair cable coming through my balcony. 22:45:32 <narc> But I'm not really complaining. 22:45:55 <narc> Either it's a short outage, in which case it'll be resolved quickly, or it's not a short one in which case the UPSes will die. 22:46:10 <narc> Either way, having the WAN link working won't help any. 22:46:14 *** [1]Booth has joined #openttdcoop 22:46:19 *** Booth is now known as Guest442 22:46:19 *** [1]Booth is now known as Booth 22:46:43 <Booth> @logs 22:46:43 <Webster> WIP logs; http://hyru.ath.cx:60080/~kenji/ottdcoop/logs/ now updating on the hour 22:47:13 <KenjiE20> lemme run the script real wuick 22:47:16 <KenjiE20> quick* 22:47:52 <KenjiE20> updated 22:48:42 <Booth> @logs 22:48:42 <Webster> WIP logs; http://hyru.ath.cx:60080/~kenji/ottdcoop/logs/ now updating on the hour 22:48:46 <narc> I'm speaking on a very local level, of course. 22:49:15 <Booth> the logs finish at 2pm 22:49:24 <Booth> thats poor KenjiE20 22:49:31 <narc> Hrm, no. 22:49:41 <narc> They finish at "lemme run the script real wuick" 22:49:44 <KenjiE20> umm no 22:49:49 <narc> At 15:47. 22:50:07 <narc> Mebbe you've got an old version stuck in your browser's cache. 22:50:41 <KenjiE20> it can take a little while to get, since each page is ~300kb 22:51:26 <narc> 382 kB in this case. 22:51:39 <narc> :) 22:51:39 <Booth> yeah i had an old cached page 22:51:47 <Booth> what time is the server runnign on? 22:51:52 <Booth> USA eastcoast? 22:51:52 <KenjiE20> @tz 22:51:59 <KenjiE20> oh I removed it 22:52:03 <KenjiE20> @time %Z 22:52:03 <Webster> KenjiE20: PDT 22:52:26 <Booth> which is? 22:52:50 <KenjiE20> pacific 22:52:55 <Booth> i want a direct ethernet cable to my ISP 22:53:04 <narc> US, west coast. 22:53:07 *** Guest442 has quit IRC 22:53:12 <narc> With DST. 22:53:20 <Booth> aah i see 22:53:32 <Booth> said the blind man as he got up and walked off 22:53:52 <narc> About 7 hours off british summer time. 22:53:57 <Booth> what time zone is vancoover in (i know its canada) 22:54:11 <Booth> i went west coast USA last summer 22:54:20 <Booth> was very cold arround SF bay area 22:54:22 <narc> http://timeanddate.com/ knows :) 22:54:23 <Webster> Title: timeanddate.com (at timeanddate.com) 22:54:30 <narc> Thank you, Webster :P 22:54:43 <Booth> but when you got to the napa valley area it was nice 22:54:46 <Booth> and lots of wine 22:54:49 <Booth> :) 22:55:02 <narc> Vancouver is in PDT also. 22:55:37 <Booth> well its my bed time 22:55:44 <Booth> i have to go to london tomorrow 22:56:06 <narc> Hrm, fun trip or not so fun? 22:56:30 <Booth> not so fun 22:56:34 <Booth> university has finished 22:56:40 <Booth> so i have to go back home 22:56:40 <narc> My condolences, then. 22:56:53 <narc> :) 22:56:57 <KenjiE20> hehe you don't go to london to have fun, you go to get ripped off 22:57:00 <Booth> as have no where to live in, in plymouth anymore 22:57:07 <Booth> lol 22:57:23 <Booth> i like london i have lived there for 18 years 22:57:31 * KenjiE20 was born in Hackney 22:57:45 <Booth> ooh i live in romford 22:57:55 <narc> I've been wanting to visit London (and other bits of the UK) for over a year now. 22:58:04 <narc> Someday I'll probably actually get around to doing it :P 22:58:11 <Booth> dont 22:58:17 <Booth> europe has many nicer places 22:58:22 <KenjiE20> it's nice to visit, but living there is ridiculous 22:58:39 <narc> I'll see Europe's nicer places sooner or later, too. 22:58:44 <Booth> any how 5 hour drive tomoz 22:58:45 <Booth> nn all 22:58:54 <narc> But I want to visit the UK soon-ish. 22:58:56 <narc> nn Booth. 22:59:05 <Booth> go plymouth 22:59:09 <Booth> and the south west 22:59:12 <Booth> that always nice 22:59:14 <Booth> and sunny 22:59:18 <KenjiE20> soon-ish(R)TM of Murphy Inc. 22:59:19 <Booth> toodles all 22:59:26 <Booth> lol 22:59:34 *** Booth has quit IRC 22:59:39 <narc> Aye, that's the one. 22:59:51 <narc> tbh, I don't really care much where in the UK I go. 23:00:03 <KenjiE20> you should hop on the east coast mainline and drop in York Rail Museum 23:00:23 <narc> That sounds very nice :D 23:00:54 <KenjiE20> they're rebuilding 4472 "The Flying Scotsman" there iirc 23:01:17 <narc> Oh, sweet. 23:01:32 <KenjiE20> plus they've got a ton of others 23:01:47 <KenjiE20> and the powercar from a 0series Shinkansen 23:02:07 <KenjiE20> in JR West blue I think 23:02:15 <narc> Yeah, definitely a must-see, must-spend-a-day-looking-around-there :) 23:02:38 <KenjiE20> find the York roman museum thing too 23:02:39 <narc> <-- railfan. 's in me blood :) 23:02:41 <mensi> and if you like tunnels, you can also come to switzerland ;) 23:02:42 <KenjiE20> that's worth a visit 23:03:19 <narc> Hm, Switzerland. Yes, one day, definitely. 23:03:19 <KenjiE20> and if you hop on another train you shouldn't be too far from the North York Moors perserved railway 23:04:31 <Plimmer> If you like shitty trains that never are on time, come to Denmark. 23:04:38 <Plimmer> We got tons. 23:04:45 <KenjiE20> lol 23:04:47 <narc> Ah, sounds like Romania. 23:04:58 <narc> From that point of view, anyway. 23:05:15 <mensi> my train today was 5 mins late 23:05:21 <KenjiE20> meh, UK trains at rush hour are pretty much sure to be late 23:05:22 <mensi> and it's the worst I had for a year or so 23:05:45 <Plimmer> Had a friend comming back from Asia, 2 stops with airplanes, around half the globe and ended up in copenhagen 2 mins before time. Then the train that had to take him 200km was 2½ hours late. 23:05:53 <narc> Yah, well, Swiss precision, mensi :P 23:05:54 <KenjiE20> our lines don't have any slack, so one thing goes, everything is late 23:06:25 <KenjiE20> then there's Japan, 91% on time, and late is a delay over 2mins 23:06:49 <narc> Yeah, but the Japanese *have to* move a lot of people daily. 23:07:00 <Plimmer> And if you cant fit in the trains theres people shoving you into the train. :) 23:07:08 <narc> So they overengineer from the start. With good results, too. 23:07:24 <mensi> narc, one day I came back home, after I left the train and got to the stairs, an american woman was rushing up... the train was already moving again though so she said this: "I hate Switzerland" ;) 23:07:43 <narc> Hah. 23:07:50 <KenjiE20> that, and if you get anything wrong in Japan it's generally a disgrace and a poor reflection on ones self 23:08:23 <KenjiE20> which makes for extreme stress levels 23:10:46 *** theholyduck_ has joined #openttdcoop 23:11:34 <mensi> they have pretty high suicide rates 23:11:45 <KenjiE20> yes 23:12:51 <KenjiE20> the work ethic, is the one reason I couldn't live there, despite my love for the country 23:13:51 <Plimmer> Why dont I ever build dual tracks when I start on a new map.. 23:14:15 <KenjiE20> I don't know, why DO you never build double tracks? 23:14:22 <Plimmer> Work ethics.. 23:14:26 *** pinedours has quit IRC 23:14:46 <narc> Good reason :P 23:15:06 <mensi> btw has there ever been a PSG with a grid of double tracks and simple PBS junctions? 23:15:16 <KenjiE20> nope 23:15:20 <mensi> like a big mesh where a YAPF automatically loadbalances 23:15:36 <narc> No, but I think something like that was tested at some point, somewhere. 23:15:42 <KenjiE20> I doubt, YAPF would autobalance quite that way 23:15:45 <narc> ...I know, very useful. 23:15:49 <KenjiE20> but it's worth testing 23:15:55 <mensi> it looks a red signals, so it kinda should pick routeswith less traffic 23:16:09 <narc> It might pick right, yeah. Would depend on the fine-ness of the grid, though. 23:16:20 <mensi> and if you have a full mesh, you should be able to find lots of ways to get somewhere 23:16:27 <KenjiE20> and the distance it wanted to go 23:16:42 <narc> It would probably also take a ton of processing power the more trains you added. 23:17:05 <mensi> a problem could be that the pathfinder kinda degrades to an A* or something on a flat grid with dynamic costs 23:17:07 <KenjiE20> probably 23:17:21 <narc> Yah, pretty much. See also ship pathfinding under YAPF. 23:17:22 *** theholyduck has quit IRC 23:17:28 <mensi> yeah 23:17:39 *** nubn has quit IRC 23:17:49 *** pinedours has joined #openttdcoop 23:19:39 *** theholyduck__ has joined #openttdcoop 23:21:53 <Plimmer> Why is it you only use 6 wagons in your games? 23:22:01 <Plimmer> To get more trains running or? 23:22:09 <KenjiE20> totally up to the planner 23:22:14 <narc> Not all games. Train length is part of the plan. 23:22:26 <Plimmer> Ahh 23:22:36 <KenjiE20> psg131 was a TTT 23:22:58 <KenjiE20> pretty sure we had a 12 tile on recently too 23:23:02 <KenjiE20> noe* 23:23:04 <KenjiE20> one* 23:23:06 <KenjiE20> >.> 23:23:20 <narc> Tired? 23:23:26 <KenjiE20> not really 23:23:38 <KenjiE20> i should be 23:25:13 <KenjiE20> wait wut? This year's prediction was right?! --> http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-308528.html 23:25:14 <Webster> Title: Why Linux is ready for the desktop today | Tech News on ZDNet (at news.zdnet.com) 23:25:32 *** theholyduck_ has quit IRC 23:25:33 *** Fuco has quit IRC 23:25:39 <narc> Eh? Interesting. 23:25:52 <KenjiE20> some good points 23:25:55 <narc> I've been semi-expecting an article like that from big IT news for a while now. 23:26:01 <KenjiE20> especially the pre-load thing 23:26:57 <narc> Considering I've got my mother using Ubuntu (at home, at least), I'm not very surprised by the statement. 23:27:13 <KenjiE20> people don't seem overly bothered what OS is there so long as it's se up, works, and does what they expect 23:27:16 <mensi> meeh I don't like linux on my desktop 23:27:19 <narc> Pretty much. 23:27:21 <mensi> us it on the laptop though 23:27:26 *** georg has left #openttdcoop 23:27:32 <Plimmer> My mom got 10 virusses in 10 months and had me fixing it every time. Then I gave her Ubuntu. 23:27:44 *** Fuco has joined #openttdcoop 23:27:47 <narc> As long as it's not extremely cumbersome to learn, people will use just about anything. 23:27:53 <KenjiE20> Dad toggles much like I do 23:28:07 <KenjiE20> and mum keeps asking 23:28:12 <narc> Including using the "wrong" software for various things. 23:28:52 <KenjiE20> the only thing holding mum back is she needs publisher / adobe / japanese 8bit fonts that are on windows, to make sure the stuff she translates works 23:29:09 <narc> "But why did you try to send a 50 MB file through email?" "Because I know how to use email, durr" 23:29:19 <KenjiE20> lol 23:29:43 <KenjiE20> dad gets that occaisionally 23:29:47 <Plimmer> I hate the people that says "just use GIMP". 23:29:59 <KenjiE20> usually ending up with, "I'm not even going to bother" 23:30:07 <narc> Yah, no. The GIMP is painful. 23:30:11 <KenjiE20> "just use GIMP" 23:30:13 <KenjiE20> :P 23:30:25 <narc> My mother's been learning how to use it, tho. 23:30:28 <Plimmer> It's like stabbing yourself in the leg using that program. 23:30:49 <KenjiE20> it's not god awful, and I'd rather it over PS CS3 for what I do 23:31:07 <Plimmer> I'd rather use paint than gimp 23:31:08 <KenjiE20> which is basic crop / resize editting 23:31:15 <narc> Yah, that matters, too. 23:31:33 <KenjiE20> and transparency / formatting 23:31:48 <Plimmer> I have a hate for OpenOffice too. 23:31:55 <mensi> I kinda like MS Office 2007 with those ribbons 23:32:11 <mensi> OOo is like the ancient WordPad on speed 23:32:12 <narc> I haven't used MS Office since Office XP, I think. 23:32:19 <mensi> new features, same crap 23:32:19 <KenjiE20> ^ 23:32:23 <mensi> but "works" 23:32:28 <KenjiE20> lol works 23:32:31 <narc> For the very limited use I get out of that type of stuff, OOo is enough. 23:32:32 <mensi> I prefere cool software, not software that "works" 23:32:55 <mensi> hmpf I'm typing extra vowels again 23:33:07 <Plimmer> LateX is so awesome that words dont even start to describe it. 23:33:52 <mensi> Sometimes my hands just mix in aspects of other languages in my typing 23:34:14 <mensi> LateX is a pain in the ass if you're not a pro 23:34:32 <KenjiE20> Sometimes my hands just mix in other aspects in my typing 23:34:35 <mensi> And there isn't even some single, good source of documentation 23:34:36 <KenjiE20> :D 23:34:42 <Plimmer> It takes some learning, but when that is over it just blows everything else aside. 23:35:19 <Razaekel> LaTeX is awesome 23:35:58 <mensi> to cool thing of proprietary software is that it's programmers get forced to also implement the boring stuff 23:36:09 <mensi> and write good documentation 23:36:15 <narc> Yeah, pretty much. 23:36:21 <mensi> those open source hackers tend to only do the cool stuff 23:36:40 <mensi> Not that I'm not doing the same thing ;) 23:36:52 <mensi> I only complete stuff if I'm getting paid for doing so ;) 23:39:23 <KenjiE20> "Real programmers never write their own code" 23:42:46 <narc> Mwah, I have eradicated the vile Carthaginian civilization. 23:43:11 <narc> Poor bastards never really had a chance. And they were the most advanced of the bunch. 23:44:30 <KenjiE20> haha 23:45:22 <KenjiE20> I'm always so defensive in RTS', I always get that turtle by my name by 2nd advancement in AoEII 23:45:42 <narc> Heh. Yah, I play my Civ 4 about the same. 23:46:10 <KenjiE20> Total Ann, and SupCom I always end up with imprenetrable air defense walls 23:46:14 <narc> Wait a good *long* while, be the first at technology, then boom -- run the enemy over with stealth bombers and modern armor. 23:46:35 <KenjiE20> i.e. 2/3rds pop cap at times 23:46:48 <KenjiE20> just patrolling aircraft 23:46:51 <narc> Heh. 23:47:32 <mensi> SupCom ftw! 23:47:49 <KenjiE20> the Absolute Annihilation mod was fun 23:47:55 <KenjiE20> I used to get my air wall up 23:48:02 <KenjiE20> then go for the uber range arty 23:48:16 <KenjiE20> that stuff would usually end up as veterans 23:48:32 <KenjiE20> and start aiming for enemy aircraft and hit them too ^_^ 23:49:14 <KenjiE20> supcom2 looks good 23:51:18 <mensi> ? 23:51:24 <mensi> is there any material out yet? 23:51:48 <mensi> lol 23:52:16 <KenjiE20> there's a few screenies around 23:52:36 <KenjiE20> http://ve3d.ign.com/images/48391/PC/Supreme-Commander-2/Screenshots/May-29th-Screenshot 23:52:37 <Webster> Title: VE3D Image for Supreme Commander 2 (PC) - Voodoo Extreme (at ve3d.ign.com) 23:53:17 <KenjiE20> less of the grey, with grey, and a slight tint of player colour 23:57:14 <mensi> you know I'm an admin over at www.insidesupcom.de and don't know about this stuff... 23:57:29 <mensi> .. I guess it says something about my level of activity ;) 23:58:03 <KenjiE20> lol 23:58:09 <mensi> we even have that screenshot on the frontpage news