Log for #openttdcoop on 19th January 2010:
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00:00:23  <V453000> yeah
00:00:47  <V453000> well ... see you folks, i am off to bed
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04:30:04  <sparr> yay @ finalising
04:30:32  <sparr> I had hoped that disappearing for the better part of a week would leave me a new game as a present when I returned...  I'll take "Finalising" as a consolation prize :)
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05:15:08  <De_Ghosty> ottdcoop is only fun at the start
05:15:10  <De_Ghosty> and in the middle
05:15:16  <De_Ghosty> whcih last for like  days
05:15:22  <De_Ghosty> then no one wantt touch it
05:15:23  <De_Ghosty> lol
05:15:31  <evilNirvana> xD
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08:48:35  <cornjuliox> @quickstart
08:48:37  <Webster> Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki -
08:48:59  <cornjuliox> !password
08:48:59  <PublicServer> cornjuliox: typhus
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09:58:55  <Mark> morning folks
09:59:11  <Mark> !password
09:59:11  <PublicServer> Mark: vanity
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10:00:05  <PublicServer> <Mark> if nothing else, we at least learned something about high capicity SRNW this game :)
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10:49:05  <Phazorx> i kinda missed the game - what did we learn?
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13:19:47  <Hyppy> !password
13:19:47  <PublicServer> Hyppy: shyest
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13:20:05  <V453000> hi Hyppy :)
13:20:56  <PublicServer> <Hyppy> Heya!
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15:02:36  <Intexon> @logs
15:02:36  <Webster> Logs:
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15:07:14  <Chris_Booth> !password
15:07:14  <PublicServer> Chris_Booth: typhus
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15:09:09  <Chris_Booth> !password
15:09:09  <PublicServer> Chris_Booth: typhus
15:09:14  <V453000> welcome back Chris :)
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15:29:31  <Chris_Booth> hello V453000
15:29:35  <Chris_Booth> i think we need a new game
15:30:29  <Chris_Booth> !archive
15:30:29  <PublicServer> Chris_Booth: http://www.openttdcoop.ORG/wiki/PublicServer:Archive | |
15:32:09  <Chris_Booth> this game has been going on for 17 days
15:32:23  <Chris_Booth> but seems to have some interesting buildingd
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15:36:07  <V453000> yeah
15:36:31  <V453000> the game is for so long because it still could be improved probably :|
15:36:32  <V453000> !date
15:36:32  <PublicServer> V453000: 12 Apr 2293
15:36:35  <V453000> hmmm
15:36:55  <Mark> V453000: did you make a new map yet?
15:36:57  <V453000> dunno havent seen it for 2 days
15:37:09  <V453000> Mark: no, why me? :)
15:37:23  <Mark> well, that explains why we have no new game yet
15:37:23  <KenjiE20> Mark: waiting on update, maps already up
15:37:30  <Mark> k
15:37:39  <V453000> I am not complaining we have no map :)
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15:45:26  <Chris_Booth> we have loads of map on the wiki
15:45:41  <Chris_Booth> you could just reset one of them if there wasnt a map
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15:46:14  <planetmaker> reset has the disadvantage that newgrfs don't change
15:46:14  <V453000> :)
15:46:23  <planetmaker> and hello everyone :-)
15:48:14  <V453000> hi pm
15:48:18  <Chris_Booth> that is true planetmaker but if we re-played an old map and didnt tell people
15:48:27  <Chris_Booth> then compair in the wiki after to see the difference
15:48:31  <Mark> heh
15:48:32  <V453000> :D
15:48:45  <Mark> or load an ancient map with the same ancient plan
15:48:56  <Mark> like pile transport or something
15:49:17  <Chris_Booth> yeah just to see what we do differently now
15:49:26  <Chris_Booth> and how much better or worse the outcome is
15:51:05  <Chris_Booth> what would also me funny is if we loaded an old stable or nightly which you couldnt build diagonals under bridges
15:51:12  <Chris_Booth> or was missing some other new features
15:51:35  <planetmaker> Chris_Booth, indeed a nice idea. But then we should kinda pre-determine the plan also (same as in previous game)
15:51:40  <planetmaker> actually I like the idea.
15:52:22  <planetmaker> uh... na, we shouldn't do that. Available nightly binaries only range back two months or so anyway
15:52:36  <Chris_Booth> only issue with map reset it that town names change and inudstry locations change if reset in a newer stable version than created in
15:53:35  <Mark> do they?
15:54:05  <planetmaker> might be, if algorithms changed. And they possibly did.
15:54:14  <V453000> why not just create a new map with random?
15:54:43  <Chris_Booth> no reason why not V453000
15:54:43  <planetmaker> :-) Also an option. You go for it? ;-)
15:55:07  <planetmaker> But that's what usually happens anyway. So... nothing new and exciting in that.
15:55:08  <V453000> I got really messed up config now
15:55:11  <Mark> V453000: because we like trying out new stuff :P
15:55:19  <V453000> :)
15:56:26  <Mark> i think pile transport would be a good one for replaying
15:56:29  <Mark> because it's a classic
15:56:34  <Mark> and ancient :P
15:57:04  <V453000> pile transport?
15:57:12  <Mark> yeah
15:57:14  <Mark> MZG04
15:58:46  <Mark> i'm afraid we'd have to derive the plan from the final save though, as they used to delete the plans back then
15:59:35  <V453000> oh
15:59:55  <V453000> oh so you mean playing some plan again?
15:59:58  <V453000> or just the map?
16:00:04  <Mark> both
16:00:10  <Mark> same map, same plan
16:00:11  <V453000> interesting
16:00:14  <Osai> we need 4way BBH then
16:00:20  <V453000> could be nice to compare :)
16:00:22  <Mark> yeah, 9 of them :P
16:00:40  <Mark> good training though, and doable with TL2 LL_RR
16:01:53  <Osai> TL2 ?
16:01:58  <Osai> isn't TL3
16:02:03  <planetmaker> I like the idea. Pile transport is considered classic indeed.
16:02:13  <planetmaker> Even Rubi knows about that game and uses it as reference ;-)
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16:02:30  <Mark> heh, guess that's enough to make a game a classic
16:02:36  <Osai> ups
16:02:38  <Mark> is there a way to reset in SP?
16:02:47  <Thraxian|Work> was all that tform original, or created during the game?
16:02:53  <planetmaker> Mark, "reset" in console?
16:02:59  <Mark> planetmaker: nope
16:03:02  <planetmaker> or something like that :-)
16:03:05  <Osai> Thraxian|Work: it is not original
16:03:06  <Mark> Thraxian|Work: TF'd
16:03:06  <Osai> :P
16:03:07  <planetmaker> restart maybe
16:03:08  <Thraxian|Work> reset_company
16:03:11  <Osai> its the old style
16:03:30  <planetmaker> I never used it tbh
16:03:45  <Thraxian|Work>
16:03:56  <Thraxian|Work> doesn't reset industry production, tform, etc.
16:03:59  <V453000> why not just get the seed of the map?
16:04:03  <planetmaker> Thraxian|Work, not company. Game. Whole map
16:04:07  <Mark> Thraxian|Work: indeed :P
16:04:09  <Thraxian|Work> ah
16:04:13  <Mark> V453000: that might work
16:04:20  <Mark> restart seems to load current settings
16:04:21  <Thraxian|Work> getseed
16:04:36  <V453000> it wouldnt probably  keep the industries at the same place but the map will be the same as in the beginning
16:04:44  <planetmaker> ah... that might work. But probably only with the same version as the original.
16:04:57  <planetmaker> Worth a try at least.
16:04:58  <Mark> i'll see how close it gets
16:05:02  <V453000> thats a question
16:05:05  <V453000> :)
16:05:11  <Mark> with the same settings it will probably at least look like it
16:06:36  <Osai> do we want to use the same plan?
16:07:03  <Mark> heh, the map looks nothing like it
16:07:07  <Thraxian|Work> I got "2293639553", and the new map doesn't seem close at all
16:07:17  <Thraxian|Work> even accounting for lakes being filled in
16:07:22  <Osai> erm
16:07:30  <V453000> I got some else number :D
16:07:31  <Mark> it's a plateau at the highest level with craters in it :D
16:07:31  <Osai> this map is from a time where seeds didn't exist
16:07:47  <Osai> iirc
16:08:23  <V453000> anyways ... guys if you look at the save most of the land has beed terraformed to death :D how could we say it looks the same or not?
16:08:46  <Thraxian|Work> water placement, mostly
16:08:56  <Thraxian|Work> if lakes are still there, or look like they may have been
16:09:41  <Mark> now it actually looks like the original generator is bugged
16:10:11  <Thraxian|Work> makes me wonder: should we include the original .sav file on the wiki for our current games?
16:10:17  <Thraxian|Work> that way, years from now, we have it :)
16:10:33  <Thraxian|Work> store both initial and final states in the archive
16:10:52  <V453000> not a bad idea
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16:12:08  <Thraxian|Work> so, by "copying" this plan, we're talking about using the same trains, same primary placement, and roughly the same ML layout?
16:12:26  <Mark> yes
16:12:27  <Thraxian|Work> er...same main station placement, not primary :)
16:12:34  <Mark> uh yes, that's what i read :P
16:12:55  <Phazorx> mark btw, you mentioned that "we at least learned something from this map" for these who havent had a chance to look at at would you care to explain?
16:13:10  <Mark> though it seems creating a proper map with the original terra generator is bugged now
16:13:35  <Mark> Phazorx: well, some more experience in creating large SRNW stations
16:13:45  <Mark> with both feeder loops and dummies
16:14:04  <Phazorx> did that work our as planned?
16:14:09  <Phazorx> *out
16:14:36  <Mark> kind of, the map came out a bit unbalanced though
16:14:53  <Mark> and there were not as many primary pickups as i would have liked
16:15:35  <Phazorx> err... financing disabled?
16:15:37  <V453000> I agree :o
16:15:47  <Phazorx> or notenough rom?
16:16:04  <Mark> i assume you mean prospecting
16:16:13  <Phazorx> yeah
16:16:15  <Mark> guess people just didn't feel like making more stations :)
16:16:24  <Mark> instead focused on a few massive ones
16:16:48  <Thraxian|Work> personally, I'm not (yet) a big fan of large-scale SRNW
16:16:51  <Mark> could anyone try to create a map with the original generator and see if it looks anything like it used to?
16:17:07  <Osai> I tried it
16:17:10  <Osai> with the same seed
16:17:14  <Thraxian|Work> OpenTTD 0.4.5?
16:17:19  <Mark> yeah, it's nasty with any seed :P
16:17:58  <Mark> guess we could create the map with an old version and just load it
16:18:05  <Osai> its something below r3400
16:18:26  <Phazorx> i ony get "massive stations" design as an idea of building in explandable way
16:18:29  <Thraxian|Work> 0.4.5 was r2361 through r3487
16:18:42  <Phazorx> so you add more platforms/hookups as it grows
16:18:57  <Phazorx> rather than design ahuge ass station from start and look at it emptiness for most of game
16:19:03  <Osai> yea
16:19:07  <Thraxian|Work> I don't think revisions were numbered prior to that - or at least they're not documented on the wiki
16:19:16  <Osai> Phazorx: I always loved the patching of networks
16:19:28  <Osai> building bypasses and so on
16:19:30  <Mark> anyone got a very old version hanging around?
16:19:35  <Mark> or the source
16:19:35  <Osai> bottlenecks, jams and what not
16:19:42  <Osai> thats the joy :D
16:19:43  <Phazorx> Osai: i was leaning more towards planing
16:19:59  <Osai> well, starting on a lower scale helps
16:20:00  <Phazorx> and expanding acrodingly rather than dealing with gridlocks and shortsights
16:20:24  <KenjiE20> Osai: same as me and Sawyer then :)
16:21:04  <Osai> I am really looking forward how the factory will work this time
16:21:11  <Osai> there were four entrances
16:21:18  <Osai> N,S,E,W
16:21:48  <Phazorx> i was playing with grass-on-unsed patch btw, looking o expand it to a point when unused tracks for some time start to decay
16:22:27  <Mark> that's nice, automatic network cleaning :P
16:22:27  <Phazorx> which would add a nice touch to a point of expandability vs megamainlines from start
16:22:32  <Phazorx> Mark: sort of
16:23:07  <Thraxian|Work> I downloaded 0.4.5, and theres no place to specify a seed.  Command line option?
16:23:19  <Osai> nope
16:23:21  <Osai> config :D
16:23:26  <Osai> openttd.cfg
16:26:01  <Thraxian|Work> tried that too.  but even creating two maps back to back came up with different landscapes
16:26:34  <Osai> mist :/
16:26:55  <Osai> that was german... I meant crap
16:28:40  <Mark> Thraxian|Work: i just generated a map using the same settings, guess it's close enough
16:28:55  <Mark> industry placement changes throughout the game anyway
16:29:24  <Thraxian|Work> as long as the hills and lakes are close :)
16:29:38  <Thraxian|Work> and I'm not referring to the manmade ones....
16:29:41  <Mark> not at all, they're completely different
16:29:51  <Mark> but it looks the same
16:30:26  <Mark> everyone should play 0.4.5 sometimes to appreciate the huge progress :)
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16:38:48  <V453000> haha :)
16:39:02  <V453000> there were not even PBS in it if I remember well
16:39:52  <planetmaker> path signals are now a year old or so
16:40:03  <V453000> really?
16:40:08  <planetmaker> they were last winter's commit spree. As was bananas and NoAI ;-)
16:40:15  <Thraxian|Work> PBS was r13926
16:40:16  <V453000> O_o
16:40:29  <planetmaker> or do I err... ?
16:40:52  <Thraxian|Work> which is around 0.6.3
16:41:35  <Thraxian|Work> correction... 0.7.0
16:41:42  <planetmaker> ^
16:41:46  <planetmaker> which is April 1st last year
16:41:49  <Thraxian|Work> 2009-02-16 was the release, actually
16:41:56  <Thraxian|Work> made it into beta1
16:42:00  <Thraxian|Work>
16:42:00  <planetmaker> yeah
16:42:18  <planetmaker>  	changeset | files
16:42:19  <planetmaker> 17 months ago	rubidium	(svn r13932) -Add [YAPP]: PBS signals added to the map array. The signals are drawn using the old Patch-like PBS sprites. (michi_cc)
16:43:08  <V453000> in 0.6.3 PBS was not I think, I started playing with 0.6.3.
16:43:15  <V453000> and I had PBSs only in nightly
16:43:39  <V453000> y
16:43:46  <planetmaker> It's a 0.7 feature, definitely
16:43:48  <V453000> me must learn to read I see :D
16:44:36  <Thraxian|Work> question: you know how trains that are too long for the station take a longer time to load/unload?
16:45:18  <Thraxian|Work> what do you think about a code change that would only apply the load/unload penalty if the cars that can't reach the platform contain cargo?
16:45:31  <V453000> oh
16:45:35  <V453000> interesting idea
16:45:36  <Thraxian|Work> ie.  if an engine or "caboose" style car (with no cargo in it) is hanging off, then no penalty
16:45:37  <V453000> but why :D
16:45:45  <Thraxian|Work> quicker throughput in the station
16:45:57  <Thraxian|Work> currently, the signal before the platform doesn't clear until the train completely leaves the platform
16:46:01  <V453000> yeah but mostly people build as long stations as needed
16:46:25  <Thraxian|Work> with a "placeholder" car (like a caboose), as soon as that train starts moving, the signal clears, and a train can approach the soon-to-be-empty platform
16:46:38  <Thraxian|Work> especially useful for longer approaches
16:46:47  <planetmaker> Thraxian|Work, while it certainly is more realistic, I guess the pain to get there is not worth the work
16:46:51  <Thraxian|Work> because the platform is empty while the next train navigates through the approach
16:47:04  <planetmaker> what would be the gain anyway?
16:47:14  <Thraxian|Work> Thraxian|Work: quicker throughput in the station
16:47:34  <V453000> why increasing throughput via coding changes?
16:47:34  <planetmaker> you either wait till full load or you wait a certain time. The result would be the same anyway
16:47:48  <Thraxian|Work> you've missed the point
16:48:19  <planetmaker> obviously. Where is it?
16:48:27  <Thraxian|Work>
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16:48:44  <Thraxian|Work> bad image, but assume it's properly pre-exit signalled (or PBS'd)
16:48:45  <planetmaker> uhm, yes?
16:48:57  <Thraxian|Work> a train can't even approach the platform until the previous train completely clears it
16:49:05  <planetmaker> yes?
16:49:34  <Thraxian|Work> now assume the train "hangs over" a bit, and a signal is placed on the tile before the station and an exit signal immediately before that
16:49:48  <Thraxian|Work> as soon as the "hangover" car moves, the exit signal turns green, and a train approaches the station platform
16:49:56  <Thraxian|Work> without waiting for the previous train to completely get off the platform
16:50:20  <Thraxian|Work> the problem now is that the hangover car causes a significant penalty when loading/unloading the entire train
16:50:30  <Thraxian|Work> even though that car isn't even involved in that process
16:50:56  <planetmaker> what's the gain, if then a train waits at the exit signal due to the fact that the station still isn't cleared?
16:51:07  <planetmaker> might be very probable in the scenario you describe
16:51:22  <Thraxian|Work> by the time the new train gets to the exit signal, the previous train has already cleared the platform
16:51:30  <planetmaker> that's a bold assumption
16:52:01  <Thraxian|Work> not really - assuming adequate exit space is present, and the approach is longer than the station
16:52:07  <Thraxian|Work> (which is true in most cases)
16:52:30  <planetmaker> and the trains are not too long
16:52:37  <Thraxian|Work> in the image I linked to earlier, only the first (southern) platform has a shorter approach than the platform
16:52:41  <planetmaker> e.g. it will fail much more likely for longer trains
16:52:58  <Thraxian|Work> platforms are TL5, while the approaches are TL5-TL11
16:53:06  <planetmaker> in any case: V453000 has a very valid point
16:53:30  <Thraxian|Work> the coding change is required to remove the penalty - otherwise there really is no point in doing something like that
16:53:48  <Thraxian|Work> that, or we could modify the penalty setting to apply 0 penalty to longer trains
16:53:59  <Thraxian|Work> then we could dock a TL50 in a TL1 station, and it would still work
16:54:00  <planetmaker> well. you'll need to take care to load slower / not at all wagons off the station
16:54:05  <planetmaker> which needs separate checks.
16:54:14  <planetmaker> which makes the whole thing slower.
16:54:39  <planetmaker> Train length is cached. The cargo carried by a wagon at position not and needs separate access. For each
16:54:48  <planetmaker> Checking for each wagon whether it influences loading speed
16:55:20  <Thraxian|Work> I don't see it as being a slower check, to be honest
16:55:30  <Thraxian|Work> the code knows how long the platform is, and how long the train is
16:55:35  <planetmaker> of course: you need to check _each_ wagon which is longer
16:55:45  <Thraxian|Work> I assume it knows which way the train entered (where the head of the train is)
16:55:46  <planetmaker> Now you just check: longer ? slow loading : fast loading
16:55:55  <Thraxian|Work> then, it can check the last N cars of the train to see their capactiy
16:55:57  <Chris_Booth> !archive
16:55:57  <PublicServer> Chris_Booth: http://www.openttdcoop.ORG/wiki/PublicServer:Archive | |
16:56:01  <Thraxian|Work> if zero, no penalty.  if not, penalty
16:56:15  <planetmaker> and no, it doesn't need to know a direction for those checks. Just the length is checked
16:56:37  <Thraxian|Work> actually - direction wouldn't matter
16:56:53  <planetmaker> So you need N+1 checks.
16:57:00  <Thraxian|Work> it knows the difference in length between the platform and the train.  it knows how the train is put together.
16:57:02  <planetmaker> while you now need 1
16:57:11  <Thraxian|Work> so if there's a difference of 2, check the last 2 cars.  they're the ones not on the platform
16:57:26  <planetmaker> cars are attached via wagon->next
16:57:38  <Thraxian|Work> it's only single-linked?
16:57:44  <planetmaker> not sure
16:59:15  <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth has left the game (connection lost)
17:00:05  <Thraxian|Work> doubly linked.  GetNextVehicle and GetPrevVehicle are both supported
17:00:30  <planetmaker> question is: GetLastVehicle present?
17:00:34  <planetmaker> If not: it's mute ;-)
17:01:01  <Thraxian|Work> no, but then neither is GetTrainLength
17:01:13  <Thraxian|Work> so to compute train length, it has to iterate through all vehicles
17:01:19  <planetmaker> it's a newgrf var afaik
17:03:38  <Thraxian|Work> train inherits from vehicle_base, and there is a cached_total_length there
17:03:48  <planetmaker> yes, trainlength is cached.
17:04:10  <Chris_Booth> so what was the verdict on replaying pile?
17:04:11  <planetmaker> in struct TrainCache
17:04:24  <planetmaker> defined in src/train.h
17:04:43  <Thraxian|Work>
17:04:45  <Thraxian|Work> it's not in there
17:04:53  <planetmaker> I use trunk
17:05:09  <planetmaker> 0.7 branch is about a year old
17:05:21  <Thraxian|Work> ah
17:05:31  <Thraxian|Work> My google search for openttd svn put me in a branch
17:05:39  <planetmaker> src/train.h:70
17:05:46  <Thraxian|Work> that's almost a direct copy from the train part of vehicle_base
17:05:48  <planetmaker> in r18866
17:05:51  <Thraxian|Work> so, yeah
17:06:39  <planetmaker> and: it only caches the front vehicle ID
17:07:40  <planetmaker> thus you can go back and forth through a train, but you always start at the first engine.
17:07:52  <Thraxian|Work> true
17:08:48  <Thraxian|Work> if you're concerned about CPU usage, it wouldn't be hard to cache the position of the last car that can hold cargo
17:08:53  <Thraxian|Work> then it's an O(1) lookup
17:09:09  <planetmaker> that doesn't invalidate any of my arguments
17:09:09  *** Thraxian|Work has left #openttdcoop
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17:09:15  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Thraxian|Work
17:09:21  <Thraxian|Work> I hate it when IRC takes focus like that :(
17:09:51  <planetmaker> you must consider the general case. Not your desired case of a void wagon longer than the station
17:10:26  <Thraxian|Work> there's always a check to see if the train is longer the platform.  This would be one additional IF check if the train is longer.
17:11:35  <planetmaker> still A LOT for virtually no gain.
17:12:02  <Thraxian|Work> actually, just replace the train's length with the position of the last cargo car.  no additional processing required
17:12:22  <Thraxian|Work> and "virtually no gain" is your opinion.  I see some decent potential here.
17:12:26  <planetmaker> the train length is not subject to being replaced. It's a needed var.
17:12:42  <Thraxian|Work> it's not replaced.  only a different variable is used in the calculation
17:12:48  <Thraxian|Work> er...comparison
17:13:19  <Thraxian|Work> instead of "if train.length > platform.length", use "if train.lastcargocarposition > platform.length"
17:13:32  <Thraxian|Work> or whatever the syntax would be
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17:13:46  <planetmaker> Then do it properly and make it such that the engine is also off limits of the station. No reason not to.
17:13:54  <planetmaker> And then you opened the pandora's box
17:13:59  <Thraxian|Work> what?
17:14:23  <planetmaker> why should the engine occupy platform space (if it has no cargo capacity)?
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17:14:38  <Thraxian|Work> because trains stop at the platform, not past it.
17:14:39  <Chris_Booth> so driver can get in / out of the engine
17:14:53  <planetmaker> do they? They don't here.
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17:15:08  <planetmaker> and drivers don't need a platform for engine access.
17:15:31  <planetmaker> the red signal usually is a bit past the platform.
17:15:35  <Thraxian|Work> planetmaker: And then you opened the pandora's box <- wasn't me that did it  :0
17:16:02  <planetmaker> well. I don't need any change there :-)
17:16:13  <planetmaker> As I really don't see any gain :-)
17:16:51  <planetmaker> this small speed gain one might get with a special track construction no one except a cooper would use... nah.
17:18:31  <Thraxian|Work> personally, if I'm sitting at a stop sign behind someone, and they go, I don't wait for them to clear the intersection before I move up to the stop sign.  I move when they do.
17:18:52  <Thraxian|Work> I'm simply using the same logic for trains on a platform.
17:20:19  <Chris_Booth> Thraxian|Work: what to say that train doesnt stop befor it clears the next signal?
17:20:33  <Chris_Booth> trains dont have stop lights
17:20:39  <Chris_Booth> so the train will just crash
17:20:42  <Chris_Booth> not like in cars
17:21:22  <Thraxian|Work> CB: huh?
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17:22:10  <Thraxian|Work> worst case, the train leaving the platform is slower.  so the next train is temporarily stopped or slowed just before the platform.  but at least it's already there.  If it can't go immediately to the platform, then there's not enough exit space from the station
17:23:14  <Chris_Booth> or a train is blocking the exit
17:23:41  <Thraxian|Work> then that's poor station exit design
17:24:02  <Chris_Booth> no it isnt quite often on SL stations train will block exits
17:24:42  <Thraxian|Work> yes it is.  it's called "not enough exit space from the station"
17:25:37  <Chris_Booth> no if you have a busy station and you merge lines after 1 TL but there is still a red upahead which is blocking the track
17:26:00  <Thraxian|Work> either a train is on the platform, or it is completely off the platform waiting to merge to the sideline.
17:26:14  <Chris_Booth> its still on the platform
17:26:18  <Thraxian|Work> if you have a train that is halfway on the platform, then there is not enough exit space
17:26:25  <Thraxian|Work> if it's still on the platform, then the next train isn't approaching yet.
17:26:36  <Thraxian|Work> because as soon as that train starts to move, the next train starts to approach
17:26:51  <Thraxian|Work> and if the train on the platform starts to move, there had better be enough exit space for it to clear the platform
17:26:52  <Chris_Booth> i dissagree with that
17:27:01  <Thraxian|Work> fine, we can agree to disagree.
17:27:13  <Chris_Booth> unless you implement a comletely signal less system
17:27:27  <Chris_Booth> like with real highspeed lines
17:27:37  <Chris_Booth> which still have real signals at stations
17:27:58  <Thraxian|Work> and they also have inter-train communication, which openttd doesn't
17:28:03  <Chris_Booth> you would gain anything from having a train wait 2 or 3 seconds for a clear platform
17:28:39  <Chris_Booth> and speed limits on the line
17:30:07  <jondisti> !password
17:30:07  <PublicServer> jondisti: harped
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18:25:42  <Intexon> !password
18:25:42  <PublicServer> Intexon: moping
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18:55:46  <Bluelight> How do leave a game without breaking connection.. I mean the server say leave sometimes when other leaves, but when I leave it say connection lost..
18:58:22  <^Spike^> does it matter? :)
18:59:41  <puny> hi everyone - what is the approx bandwidth usage in MB per hour for playing openttd on the servers?
19:00:02  <planetmaker> 2kbit.
19:00:12  <Bluelight> lol
19:00:16  <planetmaker> @calc 2*60 / 8
19:00:16  <Webster> planetmaker: 15
19:00:39  <planetmaker> 15 kilobyte per hour. Plus the map download(s).
19:00:45  <planetmaker> That's more of an issue then ;-)
19:01:13  <puny> thanks - thats good news
19:01:26  <^Spike^> hmm.. i don't know if i can stay under my download limit with that pm..
19:01:32  <^Spike^> i guess barely...
19:01:44  * ^Spike^ checks.. seeing already over 100gb this month...
19:01:46  <Bluelight> Hmm.. I don't have a limit..
19:01:50  <^Spike^> oh wait... FUP :)
19:02:55  <Bluelight> I used to have 20Mbit/s down.. But I wanted to save money.. But it's not so slow..
19:03:30  <Thraxian|Work> are you concerned about exceeding your download QUOTA or your download SPEED?
19:04:06  <puny> QUOTA - only have 500MB per month
19:04:13  <Thraxian|Work> ooh...ouch
19:04:28  <puny> i know
19:04:58  <Bluelight> That wasnt much.. :(
19:05:19  <puny> I guess lag isnt an issue - its a 3g connection - but its not like ttd is a fps?
19:05:37  <Bluelight> I download more then that every day I think.. :p
19:06:08  <Thraxian|Work> if you count all the youtube videos and music I stream each day, me too.
19:06:09  <Bluelight> I have 3G to.. But I use it rarely.. No limit..
19:06:27  <planetmaker> 500MB is... not much indeed. Though I do well with about 5GB a month
19:06:30  <puny> lol - Im part of a WUG which I use for downloads, so I only use 3G for emails, slashdot and wikipedia
19:06:48  <^Spike^> hmm..
19:07:06  <^Spike^> 5gb a month? :)
19:07:14  <planetmaker> anyway, OpenTTD should not break the limit of 500MB a month either
19:07:15  * ^Spike^ guess tv shows don't work nicely for monthly usage..
19:07:15  <puny> nope 500MB per month
19:07:20  <planetmaker> yes, spike :-)
19:07:24  <^Spike^> i was talking about pm :)
19:07:32  <^Spike^> i guess i end up with 150 maybe 175gb this month..
19:07:35  <puny> o
19:07:35  <^Spike^> just from downloads..
19:07:38  <puny> my basd
19:07:40  <^Spike^> not including what i do else.. :)
19:07:40  <puny> bad*
19:09:31  <^Spike^> it's just that my current router doesn't track my usage anymore.. :)
19:09:47  <^Spike^> weeks of 50-100gbw as nothing.. :)
19:09:51  <^Spike^> gb was*
19:10:02  <Bluelight> I still wonder how I can leave the OpenTTD servers without getting the connection lost line..
19:10:17  <puny> ur making me jealous - what country are u from?
19:10:58  <^Spike^> the netherlands?
19:11:04  <planetmaker> spike: I don't download warez ;-)
19:11:13  <^Spike^> me neither.. :)
19:11:16  <^Spike^> just alot of tv shows.. :)
19:11:19  <planetmaker> nor do I extensively use video services. Nor use torrents
19:11:21  <^Spike^> and those are legal to download here.. ;)
19:11:30  <^Spike^> i'm not allowed to upload..
19:11:38  <puny> Im from south africa - you can probably understand afrikaans?
19:11:42  <^Spike^> but i may download films/music.. :)
19:11:45  <planetmaker> pro'ly all about smoking weed and making the best of it :-P
19:11:50  <^Spike^> puny yes i do roughly.. :)
19:12:01  <^Spike^> nah.. :)
19:12:04  <^Spike^> pm i'm clean.. :)
19:12:07  <Bluelight> Norway here..
19:12:10  <^Spike^> can't say that of most.. :)
19:12:18  <planetmaker> :-)
19:16:02  *** Levi has joined #openttdcoop
19:16:22  <Levi> !players
19:16:23  <PublicServer> Levi: Client 487 is Chris Booth Spec, a spectator
19:16:23  <PublicServer> Levi: Client 496 is Intexon, a spectator
19:16:44  <Levi> !revision
19:16:44  <PublicServer> Levi: Game version is r18758
19:17:08  <PublicServer> *** Levi has left the game (connection lost)
19:17:14  <Levi> !password
19:17:14  <PublicServer> Levi: lusher
19:17:25  <PublicServer> *** Levi joined the game
19:20:47  <PublicServer> *** Levi has left the game (leaving)
19:20:49  *** Levi has left #openttdcoop
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19:24:42  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Phoenix_the_II
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19:41:59  <roysvork> evenin
19:48:03  <Chris_Booth> evening all
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19:51:32  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Phoenix_the_II
20:03:51  *** pugi has joined #openttdcoop
20:04:58  <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth Spec has left the game (connection lost)
20:06:49  <PublicServer> *** lomba joined the game
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20:18:37  <PublicServer> *** Kolo joined the game
20:18:37  <sietse> !players
20:18:39  <PublicServer> sietse: Client 501 (Orange) is lomba, in company 1 (New Safingley Transport)
20:18:39  <PublicServer> sietse: Client 496 is Intexon, a spectator
20:18:39  <PublicServer> sietse: Client 503 (Orange) is Kolo, in company 1 (New Safingley Transport)
20:18:54  *** Yexo has joined #openttdcoop
20:19:09  <PublicServer> *** Kolo has left the game (connection lost)
20:19:09  <sietse> !password
20:19:09  <PublicServer> sietse: tamely
20:19:10  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players)
20:19:19  <PublicServer> *** Sietse joined the game
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20:19:56  <PublicServer> *** Sietse has left the game (connection lost)
20:20:02  <PublicServer> *** Kolo has left the game (connection lost)
20:20:02  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players)
20:20:16  <PublicServer> *** Sietse joined the game
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20:35:13  <Ammler> KenjiE20: stage finalizing?
20:35:35  <KenjiE20> yes finalising
20:36:11  <Mark> lol
20:37:07  <Thraxian|Work> for the past 24 hours :)
20:37:08  *** jondisti has quit IRC
20:37:53  <Thraxian|Work> only because we couldn't get the latest nightly to build.  but that's changed....woohoo!
20:38:35  <Ammler> !archive
20:38:35  <PublicServer> Ammler: http://www.openttdcoop.ORG/wiki/PublicServer:Archive | |
20:38:37  <KenjiE20> !save
20:38:37  <PublicServer> Saving game...
20:38:38  <PublicServer> Game saved
20:38:47  <KenjiE20> !transfer 172 game.sav
20:38:49  <PublicServer> KenjiE20: PublicServerGame_172_Final.sav
20:38:49  <PublicServer> KenjiE20: Transfer done. (/home/openttd/website/public/save/game.sav->
20:38:54  <KenjiE20> Mark
20:39:01  <KenjiE20> ping-ness
20:39:15  <Mark> yes?
20:39:23  <KenjiE20> got your map?
20:39:33  <Mark> yeah, let me upload
20:41:07  <Mark> there you go, pile_replay.sav
20:43:00  <PublicServer> Server closed down by admin
20:43:00  <PublicServer> Saving game...
20:43:01  <PublicServer> Game saved
20:43:03  <PublicServer> Server has exited
20:43:04  *** PublicServer has quit IRC
20:43:45  *** PublicServer has joined #openttdcoop
20:43:45  <PublicServer> Autopilot engaged
20:43:45  <PublicServer> Loading savegame: '#openttdcoop - The Public Server ('
20:43:45  *** Webster changes topic to "Welcome to #openttdcoop, the Cooperative OpenTTD | PSG #172 (r18867) | STAGE: Finalising | | New players, use @quickstart & !help | Screenshots: | Coopetition ladder:"
20:43:45  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v PublicServer
20:43:54  <KenjiE20> !info
20:44:03  <PublicServer> KenjiE20: server_pw truest
20:44:03  <PublicServer> KenjiE20: alias ap_cmd "%+ ; echo donecapture"
20:44:03  <PublicServer> KenjiE20: debug_level "0"
20:44:03  <PublicServer> KenjiE20: server_info
20:44:03  <PublicServer> KenjiE20: dbg: [net] [core] starting network...
20:44:05  <PublicServer> KenjiE20: dbg: [net] [udp] initializing listeners
20:44:05  <PublicServer> KenjiE20: dbg: [net] [core] network online, multiplayer available
20:44:07  <PublicServer> KenjiE20: dbg: [net] Detected broadcast addresses:
20:44:07  <PublicServer> KenjiE20: dbg: [net] 0)
20:44:07  <KenjiE20> grr
20:44:09  <PublicServer> KenjiE20: dbg: [net] 1)
20:44:09  <PublicServer> KenjiE20: dbg: [net] [udp] closed listeners
20:44:11  <PublicServer> KenjiE20: dbg: [net] [udp] initializing listeners
20:44:11  <PublicServer> KenjiE20: dbg: [net] [tcp] listening on IPv4 port (IPv4)
20:44:13  <PublicServer> KenjiE20: dbg: [net] [udp] listening on IPv4 port (IPv4)
20:44:13  <PublicServer> KenjiE20: dbg: [net] [udp] advertising to master server
20:44:15  <PublicServer> KenjiE20: dbg: [net] [udp] listening on IPv4 port (IPv4)
20:44:15  <PublicServer> KenjiE20: dbg: [net] [udp] received new session key from master server (IPv4)
20:44:17  <PublicServer> KenjiE20: *** Game paused (not enough players)
20:44:17  <PublicServer> KenjiE20: Current/maximum clients:     0/255
20:44:18  <KenjiE20> slow boot up is slow
20:44:19  <PublicServer> KenjiE20: Current/maximum companies:   1/ 1
20:44:19  <PublicServer> KenjiE20: Current/maximum spectators:  0/10
20:44:21  <PublicServer> KenjiE20: #:1(Orange) Company Name: 'Rinnford Transport'  Year Founded: 1950  Money: 2009576518  Loan: 100000  Value: 2009500818  (T:0, R:0, P:0, S:0) unprotected
20:45:20  <roysvork> do we have to be orange again? : )
20:45:30  <KenjiE20> yes
20:45:42  <KenjiE20> don't question the orange
20:45:48  <roysvork> lol
20:45:51  <puny> !download linux
20:45:51  <PublicServer> puny: unknown option "linux"
20:46:01  <roysvork> almighty orange
20:46:28  <roysvork> !download win32
20:46:28  <PublicServer> roysvork:
20:47:05  <puny> !download generic
20:47:05  <PublicServer> puny: unknown option "generic"
20:47:18  <puny> !download debian
20:47:18  <PublicServer> puny: unknown option "debian"
20:47:36  <roysvork> !download AmigaOS
20:47:36  <PublicServer> roysvork: unknown option "AmigaOS"
20:47:54  <roysvork> !download OS2/Warp
20:47:54  <PublicServer> roysvork: unknown option "OS2/Warp"
20:48:02  <KenjiE20> good, s'all works
20:48:10  <puny> where can one get a list of valid OS's?
20:48:14  <KenjiE20> !dl
20:48:14  <PublicServer> KenjiE20: !dl autostart|autottd|autoupdate|lin|lin64|osx|win32|win64|win9x
20:48:17  <KenjiE20> @quickstart
20:48:19  <Webster> Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki -
20:48:22  <puny> ty
20:49:09  <puny> !download lin64
20:49:09  <PublicServer> puny:
20:49:26  <Phoenix_the_II> hmm
20:49:51  <roysvork> I still have a lot of respect for the whole server setup with IRC
20:49:56  <Thraxian|Work> wow...1.38MB already
20:50:00  <roysvork> it's very neat stuff
20:50:03  <KenjiE20> 1024^2 map
20:50:04  <Phoenix_the_II> compiling...
20:50:31  <KenjiE20> roy; it'll get even better soon
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20:50:46  <KenjiE20> rewrite of AP
20:51:48  *** heffer has quit IRC
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20:54:12  <Phoenix_the_II> !assword
20:54:16  <Phoenix_the_II> right...
20:54:19  <Phoenix_the_II> !password
20:54:19  <PublicServer> Phoenix_the_II: truest
20:54:35  <PublicServer> *** Phoenix_the_II joined the game
20:54:35  <roysvork> assword eh?
20:54:58  <PublicServer> <Phoenix_the_II> holy crap someone already made a plan? :o
20:55:10  <Thraxian|Work> nope - it's a remake of Pile Transport
20:55:12  <PublicServer> *** Roysvork joined the game
20:55:20  <Thraxian|Work> same plan, same(-ish) map, same trains
20:55:33  <Thraxian|Work> but with new building style, and (hopefully) significantly less tform
20:55:34  <PublicServer> <Phoenix_the_II> oh so this map has been played before? :o
20:55:46  <KenjiE20> only with new techniques
20:55:51  <KenjiE20> and features :)
20:55:58  <Thraxian|Work>
20:56:26  <PublicServer> <Roysvork> what does tl2lev4 mean? Is that 4 cars plus the two maglev units?
20:56:52  <KenjiE20> lev4 is 4th Maglev train
20:57:07  <PublicServer> <Roysvork> ahhhh ok
20:57:23  <Thraxian|Work> TL2 means 4 cars.  lev4 is a dual-engine, so that leaves room for 2 cargo cars
20:57:47  <Mark> which means very low effeciency but lots of fun
20:57:47  <PublicServer> <Roysvork> ahhh yes of course
20:57:59  <PublicServer> <Roysvork> nice sharp corners
20:58:12  <Thraxian|Work> think: anthill
20:58:16  <Mark> :D
20:58:38  <PublicServer> <Roysvork> will have to check out the archive for the previous game
20:58:40  <puny> ?password
20:58:40  <Mark> !password
20:58:40  <PublicServer> Mark: truest
20:58:43  <puny> !password
20:58:44  <PublicServer> puny: truest
20:58:52  <Mark> !dl win32
20:58:52  <PublicServer> Mark:
20:58:53  <PublicServer> <Roysvork> I've heard of it though, pretty famous to us outsiders :)
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20:59:25  <V453000> previous game?
20:59:28  <V453000> it was just RV
21:00:16  <tkjacobsen> !dl lin
21:00:16  <PublicServer> tkjacobsen:
21:00:47  <KenjiE20> V453000: as in Member Zone game, this one is based from
21:00:57  <PublicServer> <Roysvork> Not sure what game you're thinking of but I'm referring to the previous pile transport game, member zone 04
21:01:05  *** PeterT has joined #openttdcoop
21:01:13  <PublicServer> *** puny has left the game (connection lost)
21:01:42  <Thraxian|Work> the one I linked to 5 minutes ago
21:02:31  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> so, with all these mountains, are we looking to have some creative MLs with tunneling, etc, or are we going to be lazy and tform everything again?
21:03:26  <Ammler> @stage PileTransport 2
21:03:26  *** Webster changes topic to "Welcome to #openttdcoop, the Cooperative OpenTTD | PSG #172 (r18867) | STAGE: PileTransport 2 | | New players, use @quickstart & !help | Screenshots: | Coopetition ladder:"
21:03:47  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> and why is the plan train TL3?
21:04:07  <PublicServer> <Phoenix_the_II> dunno
21:04:10  <Chris_Booth> Thraxian|Work: as that is what pile transport 1 was
21:04:11  <PublicServer> <Phoenix_the_II> might up it to 5?
21:04:15  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> hehe - and town SW is not reachable
21:04:26  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> (on the plan) - so the train is currently looping
21:04:29  <Chris_Booth> its a replay of pile transport 1
21:04:46  <V453000> #172 ?
21:04:59  <Chris_Booth> maybe people should check pile transport in MZ games
21:05:13  <Mark> is pile transport TL3?
21:05:13  <V453000> I cant say I like that game
21:05:13  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> woah - now the plan is changing....
21:05:19  <Mark> then this should also be
21:05:34  <Mark> !password
21:05:35  <PublicServer> Mark: titted
21:05:48  <puny> !password
21:05:48  <PublicServer> puny: titted
21:05:50  <Ammler> PileTransport save was for long time the most busiest non newgrf game
21:05:56  <Mark> what kind of pass is that?
21:06:04  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> who changed plan?  Phoenix or Roy?
21:06:14  <Phoenix_the_II> blame me
21:06:15  <Phoenix_the_II> =P
21:06:18  <PublicServer> *** puny joined the game
21:06:30  <Mark> !password
21:06:30  <PublicServer> Mark: titted
21:06:39  <PublicServer> <Phoenix_the_II> only made a stations entrance+exit wise
21:06:47  <Ammler> :-D Mark you wait for another pw?
21:06:51  <PublicServer> *** Mark joined the game
21:06:59  <KenjiE20> lol
21:07:12  <PublicServer> <Mark> uh, what happened to the plan?
21:07:21  <PublicServer> <Mark> i tried to copy it
21:07:24  <PublicServer> <Mark> who changed it?
21:07:29  <Phoenix_the_II> <- only made a stations entrance+exit wise
21:07:35  <PublicServer> <Mark> yeah, dont
21:07:38  <tkjacobsen> !password
21:07:38  <PublicServer> tkjacobsen: titted
21:07:41  <Chris_Booth> why isnt my auto update, updateing to r18867?
21:07:41  <Phoenix_the_II> ;O
21:07:44  <Phoenix_the_II> mew :S
21:07:50  <PublicServer> *** tkjacobsen joined the game
21:08:04  <PublicServer> *** Thraxian has joined company #1
21:08:07  <Chris_Booth> !revision
21:08:07  <PublicServer> Chris_Booth: Game version is r18867
21:08:10  <roysvork> I did not change plan
21:08:26  <PublicServer> <Phoenix_the_II> reverted it now :P
21:08:51  <PublicServer> <Mark> thanks
21:08:53  <PublicServer> <Roysvork> shame, the archive game save didn't work properly on my current setup
21:09:22  <PublicServer> <Roysvork> I could see the layout though
21:10:17  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> and Pile was TL3, not TL2
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21:10:20  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> should that be changed?
21:10:31  <PublicServer> <Mark> yeah it should, my bad
21:10:34  *** Fuco has joined #openttdcoop
21:10:36  <PublicServer> <Mark> there
21:10:53  <Chris_Booth> !password
21:10:53  <PublicServer> Chris_Booth: titted
21:11:04  <Phoenix_the_II> tits!
21:11:09  <PublicServer> <Mark> so what are we waiting for? :)
21:11:13  <PublicServer> *** Kolo joined the game
21:11:17  <KenjiE20> Phoenix_the_II about 5 mins behind :P
21:11:37  <Phoenix_the_II> huh what?
21:11:39  <Phoenix_the_II> :D
21:11:51  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> 100, 300, 500, 700, 900 coordinates?
21:11:58  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> for the main grid?
21:12:02  <Chris_Booth> !password
21:12:02  <PublicServer> Chris_Booth: titted
21:12:03  <KenjiE20> Mark hinted that a while a go
21:12:06  <KenjiE20> ago*
21:12:08  <PublicServer> *** VictorOfSweden joined the game
21:12:22  <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth Spec joined the game
21:12:30  <Phoenix_the_II> on work they call when i have that like
21:12:37  <Phoenix_the_II> "Ralph's timezone"
21:12:44  <Phoenix_the_II> aka, my own timezone
21:12:50  <roysvork> : )
21:12:57  <PublicServer> <Mark> Thraxian: sounds good
21:12:57  <Phoenix_the_II> which is GMT+rand(0,24)
21:13:00  <roysvork> we all have our own zones from time to time
21:14:12  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth Spec> this is a big map
21:14:21  <PublicServer> <Mark> that it is
21:14:23  <Phoenix_the_II> cool huh? :D
21:14:49  <PublicServer> <Roysvork> how come the last game ended with just 1000 trains?
21:15:02  <PublicServer> <Roysvork> was it just too much for the cpu to handle?
21:15:22  <PublicServer> <Phoenix_the_II> was pretty heavy that last game ye
21:15:32  <PublicServer> <Phoenix_the_II> did 100% cpu on max zoom ...
21:15:37  <PublicServer> <Phoenix_the_II> on 4ghz...
21:15:46  <KenjiE20> 4?
21:15:54  <PublicServer> <Roysvork> shame, 1000 trains isn't much on a map this size
21:16:02  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> 100x* and *x100 signs posted
21:16:09  <PublicServer> <Mark> with no grfs 2000 should be doable
21:16:17  <PublicServer> <Phoenix_the_II> yes, i have a 4ghz quad core kenji :
21:16:20  <PublicServer> <Phoenix_the_II> :)
21:16:21  <Mark> !rcon patch town_growth_rate 0
21:16:21  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> these are just guidelines - move the hubs where terrain permits
21:16:34  <KenjiE20> >_>
21:18:04  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth Spec> i assume that this is a high TF game
21:18:12  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth Spec> since pile was orgianaly high tf
21:18:31  <PublicServer> <Mark> no its not
21:19:02  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth Spec> ooh so its coop TF then
21:19:21  <PublicServer> <Mark> times are changing, coop TF was something different back then :P
21:20:25  *** mib_tpm7nk has joined #openttdcoop
21:20:37  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth Spec> no i mean is this game TF mark
21:20:40  <PublicServer> *** Kolo has left the game (leaving)
21:20:53  <PublicServer> <Mark> low
21:20:53  <PublicServer> <Mark> i'd say
21:20:59  <PublicServer> <Mark> Thraxian?
21:21:03  <Ammler> Mark, there was like no TF rule back then, those games reminds me of my experimental games
21:21:20  <puny> what does the 100x300 and 500x100 signs mean?
21:21:30  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth Spec> the squares on the map
21:21:37  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth Spec> 100 x 300
21:21:38  <puny> coords?
21:21:44  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth Spec> like on graph paper
21:21:51  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth Spec> yeah
21:21:52  <PublicServer> <Phoenix_the_II> junctions will go there prolly
21:21:52  <puny> cool
21:21:53  <PublicServer> *** VictorOfSweden has joined company #1
21:21:58  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth Spec> starting at north
21:22:25  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> all hubs marked
21:22:37  <KenjiE20> Booth, I don't think you're a Spec no more ;)
21:22:39  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> again, relative positions :)
21:24:29  <Chris_Booth> KenjiE20: i am not playing at the moment
21:24:32  <Chris_Booth> just looking
21:24:42  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> I'm just signing, not building
21:24:49  <KenjiE20> ah, sounded like you were in
21:24:58  <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth Spec has changed his/her name to I am still a spec KenjiE
21:25:07  <PublicServer> *** I am still a spec KenjiE has joined spectators
21:25:16  <Chris_Booth> :P
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21:25:23  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> hehe -when is a spectator not a spectator?  when he's CB!
21:25:51  <Chris_Booth> you never know Thraxian|Work
21:26:01  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> nope, you never know me :)
21:26:01  *** Kolo has quit IRC
21:26:04  <Chris_Booth> it is me afteralll
21:26:19  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> what's CL for a TL3 maglev? 2, or 3?
21:26:35  <Chris_Booth> @cl
21:26:35  <Webster> cl: Curve Length, mostly used to describe how big a curve must be to let pass trains with a certain TL at full speed
21:26:40  <Chris_Booth> !cl
21:26:54  <Thraxian|Work> @clmag
21:26:55  <Chris_Booth> what is the cl formula?
21:26:56  <KenjiE20> CB: It's still KenjiE and not Kenjie for a reason
21:26:58  <Thraxian|Work> !clmag
21:27:01  <KenjiE20> @clcalc
21:27:01  <Webster> KenjiE20: (clcalc <railtype> [<tilt>] <cl|km/h>) -- For a number <30 this calculates the speed for <cl> on <railtype>. For any other numbers, this calculates the CL required for <railtype> travelling at <km/h>, assuming TL is small enough. [<tilt>] will apply tilt bonuses to the calculation.
21:27:04  <Thraxian|Work> hehe
21:27:42  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> what's happening near the plan?
21:27:49  <Chris_Booth> KenjiE20: its openttd i wanted to have it saying your whole nick
21:27:49  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> large area just got flattened
21:28:18  <PublicServer> *** I am still a spec KenjiE has changed his/her name to Chris_Booth
21:28:38  <PublicServer> <VictorOfSweden> Thraxian: that might have been me
21:28:45  <Thraxian|Work> @clcalc maglev 643
21:28:45  <Webster> Thraxian|Work: Required CL for maglev at 643km/h is 7 (13 half tiles) or TL
21:28:54  <Thraxian|Work> looks like CL3
21:29:04  <PublicServer> <VictorOfSweden> i'm just trying to level out spikes along the rail
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21:29:33  <PublicServer> <VictorOfSweden> making it a bit smoother
21:30:09  <KenjiE20> @alias add pilesave
21:30:09  <Webster> KenjiE20: The operation succeeded.
21:30:24  <KenjiE20> for quick reference during this game
21:31:25  <Mark> !setdef
21:31:26  <PublicServer> *** Mark has disabled wait_for_pbs_path, wait_twoway_signal, wait_oneway_signal, ai_in_multiplayer enabled no_servicing_if_no_breakdowns, extra_dynamite, mod_road_rebuild, forbid_90_deg and set path_backoff_interval to 1, train_acceleration_model to 1
21:31:30  <PublicServer> *** Chris_Booth has changed his/her name to Chris Booth
21:32:05  <Phoenix_the_II> extra dynamite? :o
21:32:07  <Phoenix_the_II> atom bomb?
21:32:19  <KenjiE20> "21:32:10      oftc  -- | 謙而: Erroneous Nickname" aww
21:32:22  <Thraxian|Work> moar powur
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21:33:02  <KenjiE20> extra_dynamite is the remove town owned thing iirc
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21:34:29  <Mark> KenjiE20: it also allows you to remove town-owned road junctions and middle-sections instead of just dead ends
21:34:48  <Mark> although you should try to work from dead ends inwards as it damages the rating less
21:35:01  <KenjiE20> that's what I was referring to with "town onwed thing"
21:35:34  <Phoenix_the_II> Mark ah :D
21:35:35  <Phoenix_the_II> nice to know
21:35:35  <Mark> oh, i thought you meant allowing to remove bridges and such, as it also does that
21:35:56  <PublicServer> *** puny has left the game (leaving)
21:35:58  <Phoenix_the_II> satalite stuff?
21:36:08  <PublicServer> <Mark> not town owned
21:36:23  <Phoenix_the_II> righty
21:36:30  <Phoenix_the_II> made a CL loopy near net plan
21:38:09  <puny> !password
21:38:09  <PublicServer> puny: salons
21:38:44  <PublicServer> *** puny joined the game
21:40:18  <PublicServer> <Mark> outer loop done
21:42:03  <Ammler> someone already compiled openttd nightly on suse?
21:42:20  <PublicServer> <Mark> this nightly?
21:42:27  <Ammler> current yes
21:42:27  <PeterT> !revision
21:42:28  <PublicServer> PeterT: Game version is r18867
21:42:31  <PublicServer> <Mark> nope
21:47:10  <PublicServer> <Mark> still hoping for the ultimate satisfaction, to lay the 800 tiles in one stretch
21:47:44  <PublicServer> <Mark> 400 is about the max so far :/
21:48:10  <Thraxian|Work> @tunnels
21:48:10  <Webster> Thraxian|Work: (tunnels <trainlength> [<split>]) -- Returns minimum and maximum signal gap sizes for 2,3 and 4 linesplits with <trainlength>. If <spilt> is given it will return the the gap sizes for <split> (+/-) 1.
21:48:22  <Thraxian|Work> @tunnels 3
21:48:23  <Webster> Thraxian|Work: For Trainlength of 3: < 9 needs 2, 10 - 14 needs 3, 15 - 19 needs 4.
21:48:34  <PublicServer> <Mark> AAAAAAAH
21:48:53  <PublicServer> <VictorOfSweden> bribes eh?
21:48:57  <PublicServer> <Mark> someone hacked ottd to make my IP never succeed a bribe
21:49:04  <Thraxian|Work> haha
21:49:22  <Thraxian|Work> is that what the anti-Mark bribe fix in the changelog refers to?
21:49:35  <PublicServer> <Mark> hehe
21:50:02  <PublicServer> <Mark> that would be a good one
21:50:39  <Thraxian|Work> is @tunnels the correct formula?
21:50:50  <PublicServer> <Mark> i think they both are now
21:51:02  <Thraxian|Work> what if I want to make a tunnel of length 9?
21:51:07  <Thraxian|Work> is it 2 or 3 tunnels?
21:51:13  <Mark> @tunnels 3 9
21:51:13  <Webster> Mark: For Trainlength of 3: 35 - 39 needs 8, 40 - 44 needs 9, 45 - 49 needs 10.
21:51:17  <Mark> oh
21:51:20  <Mark> !tunnels 3 9
21:51:20  <PublicServer> Mark: You need 2 tunnels/bridges for trainlength 3 and gap 9.
21:51:31  <Thraxian|Work> the other formula says to use 3
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21:51:41  <Thraxian|Work> @tunnels 3
21:51:41  <Webster> Thraxian|Work: For Trainlength of 3: < 9 needs 2, 10 - 14 needs 3, 15 - 19 needs 4.
21:51:51  <Thraxian|Work> 2 is not enough, because 9 is not <9
21:52:00  <Mark> yeah, it says 10-14 needs 3 though
21:52:06  <V453000> TL 3 is 3 tunnels for 9 length for sure
21:52:12  <PublicServer> *** puny has left the game (leaving)
21:52:12  <Thraxian|Work> @tunnel
21:52:12  <Webster> Thraxian|Work: (tunnel <trainlength> [<split>]) -- Returns minimum and maximum signal gap sizes for 2,3 and 4 linesplits with <trainlength>. If <spilt> is given it will return the the gap sizes for <split> (+/-) 1.
21:52:19  <Mark> V453000: not too sure about that
21:52:19  <Thraxian|Work> @gap
21:52:19  <Webster> Thraxian|Work: (gap <trainlength> [<split>]) -- Returns minimum and maximum signal gap sizes for 2,3 and 4 linesplits with <trainlength>. If <spilt> is given it will return the the gap sizes for <split> (+/-) 1.
21:52:22  <Thraxian|Work> @gap 3
21:52:22  <Webster> Thraxian|Work: For Trainlength of 3: < 9 needs 2, 10 - 14 needs 3, 15 - 19 needs 4.
21:52:40  <Mark> it's (3+2)*2 - (3-2)
21:53:04  <Mark> that makes 9 the max
21:54:35  <PublicServer> <Mark> i'll leave the rest of the ML for you
21:54:55  <PublicServer> <Mark> time to reserve seats for my 2nd flight segment :)
21:54:56  <V453000> Mark: I am quite sure
21:54:56  <Thraxian|Work> near the plan, are those bridges gap 9 or 10?
21:55:00  <PublicServer> *** Mark has joined spectators
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21:55:14  <PublicServer> <Mark> that's 9
21:55:17  <PublicServer> *** Mark has joined spectators
21:55:43  <Thraxian|Work> then 2 is definitely not enough for TL9
21:56:02  <PublicServer> *** Mark has joined company #1
21:57:05  <PublicServer> <Mark> yeah i guess that should be counted as 11 because a train on a signal tile also blocks it
21:57:08  <PublicServer> *** Mark has joined spectators
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21:58:37  <Thraxian|Work> even a length 7 bridge appears to be too long for 2 tracks
21:58:42  <Thraxian|Work> unless I'm miscounting
21:59:17  <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth has left the game (connection lost)
22:00:19  <V453000> also depends if you use PBS or not
22:00:23  <PublicServer> <VictorOfSweden> what's happening near the CL demo?
22:00:27  <V453000> it could shorten it by one tile
22:00:37  <PublicServer> <VictorOfSweden> the standard rail creation
22:00:51  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> can you check by the plan?
22:00:58  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> the crossed tiles are supposed to be TL3 trains
22:01:03  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> are they too close together?
22:02:00  <V453000> is that for mey?
22:02:18  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> for anyone that knows anything about doubling bridges/tunnels
22:02:29  <V453000> I cant join ingame ;)
22:02:29  <PublicServer> <VictorOfSweden> syncing trains
22:02:40  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> it's never been very clear to me how to count the gap (from bridge ends or signals), and how trains fit...
22:02:46  <V453000> what is going on with bridges? some new ideas ?
22:02:59  <V453000> oh so
22:03:01  <V453000> yeah
22:03:07  <V453000> could try that though
22:03:16  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> I'm curious what the maximum bridge/tunnel length is for 2 bridges on a TL3
22:03:35  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> the formula says 8-9 can be done with 2 bridges
22:03:39  <V453000> maybe also an issue would be how exactly is the flow compressed/packed
22:03:45  <V453000> 9 cant
22:03:45  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> is that counting 0, 1, or both tiles with signals on them?
22:03:47  <V453000> I am sure
22:03:55  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> assume maximum compression, always
22:04:11  <Mark> min. gap is 3
22:04:39  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> min gap between trains is 3?
22:04:48  <Mark> yes
22:05:01  <V453000> meant with the shortest bridge probably
22:05:44  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> and how do you count the gap?  do you include 0, 1, or both signalled tiles?
22:06:20  <V453000> thats a bold question
22:06:34  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> assuming that the ML is 2-gapped, that means you count all the unsignalled tiles and 1 of the signalled tiles
22:06:43  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> is that counting correct?
22:07:20  <planetmaker> iirc yes
22:07:27  <PublicServer> <Mark> the example you have now shows why you shouldn't use pre-signalling
22:07:30  <V453000> lets test
22:07:35  <planetmaker> that's how you count signal distance. the gap is one less
22:08:08  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> so I've effectively created a 10 gap, then.  counting the space between pre-signal and last signal +1
22:09:05  <planetmaker> might be :-) (I'm not ingame)
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22:17:11  <V453000> SHIT! My shifter broke because there were coming livestock-full trains which accelerate much faster as livestock has almost no weight
22:17:13  <V453000> goddamn it
22:19:41  <Mark> lightweight cows
22:20:09  <V453000> yes
22:20:12  <V453000> this sucks
22:21:22  <V453000> that actually makes it quite hard to unify the acceleration trail for all trains on the net
22:21:31  <V453000> single cargo SRNW ftw.
22:22:38  <Mark> yeah, i noticed that with my first working compressor
22:23:38  <V453000> :)
22:23:38  *** uliko has quit IRC
22:23:54  <V453000> I did not realize with my shifters actually :|
22:24:09  <V453000> damn :D I have been building the shifters for two days
22:24:18  <V453000> I can start all over
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22:25:56  <PublicServer> *** Phoenix_the_II has left the game (connection lost)
22:25:56  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players)
22:26:36  <V453000> oh my god
22:26:53  <V453000> forgot also the wagons have different speed
22:27:10  <V453000> (weight)
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22:27:34  <Razaekel> you got screwed
22:28:04  <V453000> as if I did not know it :D
22:28:17  <V453000> well ... not everything is lost yet
22:28:43  <Razaekel> !dl win64
22:28:43  <PublicServer> Razaekel:
22:28:51  <V453000> the concept just got trimmed to be useful in really just some situations
22:29:27  <Thraxian|Work> actually, according to, the gap includes both signals  - interesting....
22:32:27  <Webster> Latest update from devzone: OpenGFX 32bpp - First Release! <>
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22:35:41  <Osai> howdy
22:35:41  <Osai> !svn
22:35:41  <PublicServer> Osai: svn update -r18867 && make (wafted)
22:35:41  <PublicServer> Osai: svn checkout -r18867 svn:// openttdcoop && cd openttdcoop && ./configure && make
22:36:13  <PeterT> Osai: You really build from SVN?
22:36:17  <PeterT> we've had this conversation before
22:36:21  <Osai> you always ask me
22:36:24  <Osai> and I said, yes
22:36:30  <Osai> and I have another good reason
22:36:35  <Osai> I am using os x 10.6
22:37:02  <Osai> dunno if there are binaries available
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22:37:09  <Osai> !playercount
22:37:09  <PublicServer> Osai: Number of players: 3
22:37:10  <PeterT> Oh
22:37:19  <PeterT> !tell Osai !dl osx
22:37:19  <PublicServer> Osai:
22:37:23  <PeterT> :-P
22:38:35  <Osai> try to click that.....
22:38:54  <planetmaker> Osai: there are no OSX binaries anymore
22:38:56  <PeterT> ah
22:38:58  <planetmaker> nor will there
22:39:05  <planetmaker> until there's a new OSX dev
22:39:09  <Osai> yep
22:39:15  <Osai> omg
22:39:25  <Osai> I need that stupid liblzo2
22:39:32  <planetmaker> yes.
22:39:37  <planetmaker> sudo port install lzo2
22:39:45  <PeterT> there have been some people offering to do it in the mac thread
22:39:49  <Osai> good to know
22:39:57  <planetmaker> and then do the required symlinking of the dirs, if it isn't found
22:39:59  <Osai> I searched for liblzo2 all the time
22:40:05  <planetmaker> yes, me, too :-P
22:40:08  <Osai> now I did --without-liblzo2
22:40:14  <Osai> ./configure --without-liblzo2
22:40:19  <Osai> works too
22:40:25  <planetmaker> yes...
22:40:47  <planetmaker> but there are then some saves which you cannot open
22:40:49  <Osai> anyway... installing lzo2
22:40:50  <Thraxian|Work> how do you get Webster to tell you the formula for gap?
22:40:56  <planetmaker> @gap
22:40:56  <Webster> planetmaker: (gap <trainlength> [<split>]) -- Returns minimum and maximum signal gap sizes for 2,3 and 4 linesplits with <trainlength>. If <spilt> is given it will return the the gap sizes for <split> (+/-) 1.
22:41:08  <planetmaker> @help gap
22:41:08  <Webster> planetmaker: (gap <trainlength> [<split>]) -- Returns minimum and maximum signal gap sizes for 2,3 and 4 linesplits with <trainlength>. If <spilt> is given it will return the the gap sizes for <split> (+/-) 1.
22:41:11  <planetmaker> hm
22:41:12  <PeterT> !playercount
22:41:12  <PublicServer> PeterT: Number of players: 3
22:41:14  <Thraxian|Work> I think it uses alias
22:41:19  <planetmaker> yes
22:41:20  <Thraxian|Work> but I don't remember the syntax
22:41:26  <Osai> @wiki KenjiE20/Webster
22:41:27  <planetmaker> @help alias gap
22:41:29  <Webster> Search results for "KenjiE20/Webster" - #openttdcoop Wiki -
22:41:40  <Chris_Booth> !gap tl split
22:41:40  <PublicServer> Chris_Booth: !gap <trainlength> <gap>: Returns amount of tunnels/bridges needed. Formula: (<gap>+<trainlength>-2)/(<trainlength>+2)
22:41:44  <Thraxian|Work> Osai: I'm looking at that article, but not seeing anything
22:41:57  <Razaekel> !password
22:41:57  <PublicServer> Razaekel: wafted
22:42:03  <Chris_Booth> !gap 3 10
22:42:03  <PublicServer> Chris_Booth: You need 3 tunnels/bridges for trainlength 3 and gap 10.
22:42:17  <PublicServer> *** Razaekel joined the game
22:42:35  <Chris_Booth> @help pile
22:42:41  <Chris_Booth> @pile
22:43:01  <KenjiE20> @pilesave
22:43:05  <Chris_Booth> !password
22:43:05  <PublicServer> Chris_Booth: wafted
22:43:36  <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth joined the game
22:44:20  <Thraxian|Work> CB: actually, according to, the gap includes both signalled tiles - is that correct?
22:44:49  <Thraxian|Work> I'm working on a wiki article for signal gaps, so I can refer to it the next time I get confused (tomorrow!)
22:44:56  <KenjiE20> @pilesave
22:44:56  <Webster>
22:45:00  <KenjiE20> there
22:45:01  <planetmaker> Thraxian|Work: doesn't make sense to me.
22:45:02  <Chris_Booth> gap is from the last use signal
22:45:08  <Chris_Booth> to first used signal
22:45:14  <Thraxian|Work> including the two signalled tiles?
22:45:14  <planetmaker> a gap is a gap _between_ something
22:45:32  <planetmaker> no gap means adjacent signals, gap 1 = signal distance two
22:45:33  <Chris_Booth> so the length that a train travels without passing a signal
22:45:34  <PublicServer> <Razaekel> there's way too many damn hills on this map
22:45:36  <PublicServer> <Razaekel> >.<
22:45:42  <Thraxian|Work> that's my main question, and the source of all my confusion.  when you count the gap, do you count 0, 1, or both of the signalled tiles?
22:45:46  <planetmaker> all other definitions are at least counter-intuitive
22:45:59  <planetmaker> Thraxian|Work: I would count no signal
22:46:03  <planetmaker> for a _gap_
22:46:12  <planetmaker> The signal _distance_ includes ONE signal
22:46:19  <Chris_Booth> Thraxian|Work: s t t t s
22:46:25  <PublicServer> *** Razaekel has left the game (leaving)
22:46:25  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players)
22:46:26  <Chris_Booth> where s is a signal
22:46:32  <planetmaker> gap 3, signal distance 4
22:46:33  <Chris_Booth> and t is a none signal tile
22:46:47  <Chris_Booth> thanks planetmaker
22:46:55  <planetmaker> thanks you :-)
22:47:09  <Thraxian|Work> I'm looking at the article I just linked, and it says that SD means one signal every N tiles (we use SD=2), and that a SD of two gives a gap of 3
22:47:23  <planetmaker> uh?
22:47:25  <Thraxian|Work> meaning it is counting both signalled tiles
22:47:32  <planetmaker> sounds wrong to me
22:47:37  <Thraxian|Work> <- without the comma (sorry)
22:47:45  <KenjiE20> SD = Gap+1
22:47:46  <Chris_Booth> no Thraxian|Work gives a traveling gap of 3
22:47:56  <Thraxian|Work> it does have a signficant impact on the formulas and how to count a gap properly
22:48:04  <Osai> weird, I can't find that stupid lzo2
22:48:20  <Chris_Booth> we use a gap of 1
22:48:20  <Thraxian|Work> are they referring to gap as a "train gap" and not a "signal gap"?
22:48:31  <Chris_Booth> which has a travel distance of 2 tiles
22:48:36  <planetmaker> Thraxian|Work: the article says that _if you remove a signal_ you have a minimum gap of 3
22:48:46  <Thraxian|Work> An SD of two gives a minimum gap of 3, and is the optimal practical solution.
22:48:52  <Thraxian|Work> ^ directly from the wiki article
22:49:00  <KenjiE20> Thraxian|Work: @tunnels and !tunnels are not sacrosanct anyway, merely guidees
22:49:08  <Chris_Booth> we use a SD of 1 thoguh
22:49:16  <Thraxian|Work> is that the gap between trains they are referring to?
22:49:19  <PublicServer> *** persil joined the game
22:49:51  <planetmaker> Thraxian|Work: the context reads to me, though, that the author only speaks of a gap, if a signal is missing :-)
22:49:55  <Thraxian|Work> nvm: Figure1 indicates they are talking about a train gap
22:50:12  <Thraxian|Work> so if the traingap is signalgap +2, then we do ignore signalled tiles.
22:50:20  <planetmaker> ah, good point
22:50:25  <Thraxian|Work> so we use a signal gap of 1 (meaning only 1 unsignalled tile between two signalled ones)
22:50:33  <planetmaker> yup
22:50:45  <planetmaker> so we should always make the distinction between signal gap and train gap
22:50:47  <Chris_Booth> thats what the game engine say for signal gap
22:50:48  <KenjiE20> @setpsg 173
22:50:48  *** Webster changes topic to "Welcome to #openttdcoop, the Cooperative OpenTTD | PSG #173 (r18867) | STAGE: PileTransport 2 | | New players, use @quickstart & !help | Screenshots: | Coopetition ladder:"
22:51:07  <planetmaker> and now good night :-)
22:51:12  <Razaekel> i always considered it to be 2
22:51:17  <Razaekel> since that's what the game says :-/
22:51:28  <Mark> looking at the context i also think we use 2
22:51:39  <Razaekel> ahh, the word of god
22:51:43  <Razaekel> discussion over!
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22:52:46  <Chris_Booth> any how i am off to bed now
22:52:49  <KenjiE20> @post PSG173 (PileTrans 2) now underway see for the original
22:52:50  <Webster> KenjiE20: Posted.
22:53:15  <Osai> !password
22:53:16  <PublicServer> Osai: buzzes
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22:57:46  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Phoenix_the_II
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22:59:05  <Osai> renamed the company now
22:59:29  <PublicServer> *** persil has left the game (leaving)
22:59:47  <PublicServer> *** 0sai has left the game (leaving)
22:59:47  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players)
22:59:56  <Osai> looks good, but its time for my bed now
23:00:19  <Thraxian|Work> hehe - should be Pile Jr
23:01:21  <Mark> Pile 2010?
23:01:59  <Thraxian|Work> wiki article created:
23:03:41  <Osai> nice
23:03:53  <Osai> we could use an interwiki link
23:04:02  <Osai> I'll do that tomorrow
23:04:20  <Thraxian|Work> I'm still not sold on the formula.  It just doesn't seem to fit for gap 9, TL3.
23:04:27  <Thraxian|Work> what do you mean an interwiki link/
23:04:33  <Thraxian|Work> I have one on Signal Density
23:05:13  <V453000> hi Osai :)
23:06:21  <Osai> Thraxian|Work:
23:06:44  <Thraxian|Work> oh, nice
23:06:52  <Osai> but I don't know the prefix right now
23:06:53  <Osai> :/
23:08:03  <Osai> Thraxian|Work: imho the signal gap is a bit different
23:08:13  <Thraxian|Work> the prefix is whatever you want it to be
23:08:22  <Osai> but thats my personal experience with testing synchronized joiners
23:08:34  <Thraxian|Work> so you could use openttd as the prefix
23:08:37  <Osai> TL + ( signal gap *2 )
23:08:42  <Thraxian|Work> that would make openttd:Railway_Designs link to
23:09:35  <Osai> yes
23:09:37  <Thraxian|Work> Osai: what does that formula equate to?
23:09:44  <Osai> wait
23:09:48  <Osai> its something different
23:10:18  <V453000> Osai: I found one little bad thingy on the hybrid sml ... if I am using it for normal game with SML, all cargo types, same trains, same TL, their Weight becomes a huge issue - each wagon type weighs different and also the cargos count somehow else on weight ... well the result is that the Hybrids have to be used with the same accelerating distance ...
23:10:35  <V453000> it still works and pretty well but the usability is quite reduced
23:10:51  <Osai> but thats a problem of pre-accelerated joins, isn't it?
23:10:57  <V453000> yes
23:11:03  <KenjiE20> Thraxian|Work: tweaked a couple things on there
23:11:06  <V453000> but these are included in the hybrid
23:11:09  *** Phoenix_the_II has quit IRC
23:11:35  <Thraxian|Work> KenjiE20: in the link you sent me?
23:11:44  <KenjiE20> in the link you posted
23:12:06  <Osai> V453000: I don't see a solution for this issue right now :/
23:12:15  <V453000> it is quite simple
23:12:34  *** persil has quit IRC
23:12:39  <Thraxian|Work> nice, thanks KenjiE20
23:13:00  <Thraxian|Work> I still want to examine that formula more closely.  I think once screenshots are added, it will help
23:13:01  <V453000> Osai: Simply there is none. The concept can be used only with the same weights OR for example with one cargo SRNW
23:13:19  <Thraxian|Work> V453000: or infinite hp :)
23:13:26  <V453000> :D
23:13:27  <V453000> yeah
23:13:36  <Thraxian|Work> instacelleration
23:13:38  <V453000> but then we would not need accelerated priorities
23:13:45  <Osai> it also depends on the maxspeed
23:13:51  <Thraxian|Work> or however you spell it...instacceleration
23:14:02  <V453000> I understand :)
23:14:24  <PublicServer> *** Thraxian has left the game (leaving)
23:14:27  <KenjiE20> Thraxian|Work: added a meta template for ya :P
23:14:59  <V453000> the maxspeed? you mean that the accel trail length is related to the maxspeed, (hp and weight)
23:15:05  <V453000> ?
23:15:13  <Osai> no
23:15:23  <Osai> just if you use different engines
23:15:33  <V453000> oh
23:15:43  <V453000> well it is simple to use the same engines
23:15:52  <V453000> that is no issue
23:15:56  <Thraxian|Work> I still think a 7-gap is maximum for TL3 with 2 lines
23:16:41  <Thraxian|Work> I can add some captions for the screenshots, if you think that will expedite things.  I'm horrible at making example screenshots
23:17:08  <KenjiE20> I don't, I doubt trains will be able to travel close enough for 7 to be useful
23:17:21  <KenjiE20> Thrax; might help
23:17:31  <Osai> V453000: not if your goal is realism D:
23:17:40  <Thraxian|Work> with the way we've been exploring compression and packers, it won't be long :)
23:17:58  <KenjiE20> there's only so close trains can follow
23:17:58  <PublicServer> *** jondisti has left the game (leaving)
23:17:59  <V453000> Osai: we always use the same engines, dont we
23:18:10  <KenjiE20> else they end up pausing at split second reds
23:18:13  <Thraxian|Work> KenjiE20: yup.  signal density +1
23:18:38  <V453000> Osai: the only issue could be if someone played lets say from 1920 ... then the trains would change all the time ... but making the shifters took me about 40 years
23:18:48  <Thraxian|Work> and I'd rather err on the side of caution than cause an accordian effect on the ML
23:19:03  <KenjiE20> Thraxian|Work: if they travelled that close, the realistc accel, would cause them to briefly slow
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23:19:14  <Osai> V453000: yes, we do! :P
23:19:32  <V453000> Osai: only when PAX and cargo is mixed -.-
23:19:38  <V453000> which I dislike :D
23:19:56  <Osai> :P
23:20:48  <V453000> I fear our new shifters are quite unusable after all :D just for really specific games
23:21:19  <KenjiE20> you mean SML ISN'T specific?!
23:21:21  <KenjiE20> :P
23:21:26  <V453000> true
23:21:31  <Osai> but the Fail-Save Joiner is awesome
23:21:34  <V453000> though I use it quite frequently
23:21:38  <Osai> because its super easy
23:22:00  <V453000> yes it is awesome ... but it has a gap error ;)
23:22:17  <Osai> gap error?
23:22:28  <KenjiE20> oh don't start this again
23:22:29  <V453000> as I showed you in the screenshot
23:22:30  <KenjiE20> :)
23:22:35  <V453000> :D
23:22:37  <Osai> well... for SML
23:23:07  <V453000> maybe I did not imagine used for joining actually :)
23:23:16  <Osai> :P
23:23:26  <Osai> I already have some other setups
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23:23:29  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Phoenix_the_II
23:23:32  <V453000> :)
23:23:35  <Osai> double-fail-save-join
23:23:37  <Osai> that roxx
23:23:43  <V453000> hehe
23:24:06  <Osai> it is like: | V |
23:24:16  <KenjiE20> @fish
23:24:16  <Webster> I landed a Phoenix_the_II that was this big |<---------->|
23:24:17  <Osai> while sml is like |\|
23:24:19  <V453000> hmph? :D
23:24:22  <KenjiE20> hehe
23:24:29  <V453000> oh
23:24:42  <Osai> maybe we really need another construction for sml
23:24:57  <V453000> that actually could be just SML to the center
23:25:04  <V453000> another ...we will see
23:25:17  <Osai> well... normal networks are not SML
23:25:34  <Osai> I am looking forward to this game
23:25:36  <V453000> of course because they are normal :D :P
23:26:00  <Osai> well... I am off for today
23:26:02  <Osai> good night
23:26:05  <V453000> cya
23:26:11  <V453000> more news tomorrow :P
23:27:11  <Phoenix_the_II> @azzword
23:27:14  <Phoenix_the_II> !password
23:27:14  <PublicServer> Phoenix_the_II: relish
23:27:19  <KenjiE20> azz
23:27:27  <PublicServer> *** Phoenix_the_II joined the game
23:28:44  <Phoenix_the_II> hmm
23:28:47  <Phoenix_the_II> pretty much dead
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23:29:48  <PublicServer> *** Mark has left the game (leaving)
23:38:36  <PeterT> Mark?
23:38:39  <PeterT> @seen mark
23:38:39  <Webster> PeterT: mark was last seen in #openttdcoop 37 minutes and 17 seconds ago: <Mark> Pile 2010?
23:39:11  <PeterT> Mark: your openttd intro looks great, but it's a bit empty with a large screen (
23:40:03  <V453000> yeah that is quite nice ... I would prefer a LOT less water and non.openGFX though :)
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23:42:09  <PeterT> V453000: you mean like this?
23:42:34  <V453000> that is MUCH nicer :)
23:46:25  <PeterT> yea
23:49:40  <V453000> I also had one somewhere ... but it was just a BRUTAL MESS with TL1 trains running all around ... was one of my SLHs
23:50:27  <PeterT> ill be voting for mark's intro unless a better one comes along
23:50:47  <V453000> wait this is just recent thingy?
23:50:58  <V453000> I thought I saw it long time ago
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