Log for #openttdcoop on 29th September 2011:
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00:19:07  *** alang has quit IRC
00:55:39  <theos> !password
00:55:39  <PublicServer> theos: griefs
00:55:56  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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06:07:52  <imus> !password
06:07:53  <PublicServer> imus: griefs
06:08:07  <imus> !players
06:08:09  <PublicServer> imus: There are currently no clients connected to the server
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06:42:31  <Ryton> !info
06:42:32  <PublicServer> Ryton: #:1(Orange) Company Name: 'Baker & Co.'  Year Founded: 2000  Money: 2773085477  Loan: 0  Value: 2779699706  (T:1666, R:0, P:0, S:0) unprotected
06:42:38  <Ryton> still 1666
06:42:45  <Ryton> train limit isnt increased?
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09:37:24  <imus_> !name
09:40:15  <V453000> try /name
09:41:10  <^Spike^> well if it's for irc /nick would be the proper command :)
09:42:39  <imus_> was hoping it would give me an explenation to how to use it ^^
09:43:15  <^Spike^> what
09:43:16  <imus_> I also wonder why imus is double in the list of users in this chanel
09:43:30  <^Spike^> cause you're logged on twice on our webpage?
09:43:45  <imus_> possibly
09:43:45  <^Spike^> cause both are the same ip... so.. i would check my tabs if i were you :)
09:43:50  *** imus has quit IRC
09:43:56  <imus_> indeed ^^
09:43:57  <imus_> my bad
09:44:25  *** imus_ is now known as imus
09:44:28  <imus> aha
09:44:34  <^Spike^> :)
09:44:37  <imus> thanks :)
09:44:43  <^Spike^> irc commands are not that hard :)
09:44:56  <imus> not used to using irc, that's all ^^,
09:46:00  <imus> the only experience I got with irc is the webclient i'm using so i can log in to the game
09:46:07  <^Spike^> hehe
09:46:19  <^Spike^> well the webclient should support most of the regular irc stuff so :)
09:46:31  <^Spike^> and since irc is not the main client the webclient should suffice :)
09:46:42  <imus> indeed :)
09:47:10  <imus> is it useful to register my name with that nickserv thing?
09:47:34  <imus> or is that only useful for real members so their nick can't get abused?
09:48:17  <V453000> well your nick could be abused too :P
09:48:58  <imus> could be but I don't see why anyone would be interested in abusing mine
09:49:08  <planetmaker> how would we know it's not you, if someone claimed your nick and did offensive stuff
09:49:41  <imus> 't would be suspicious when my behaviour suddenly changes for a few days, wouldn't it?
09:50:14  <planetmaker> but what could we do other than banning the nick?
09:50:23  <imus> hmm
09:50:27  <imus> k that would be anoying
09:50:41  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
09:50:50  <planetmaker> yes, we could ban the IP. But we would actually ban both ;-)
09:51:09  <imus> banning the ip could be a problem here
09:51:32  <imus> if you ban the ip, it's possible that nobody on the campus can log in to the channel XD
09:51:34  <V453000> just protect your nick and you are safe :P
09:52:08  <planetmaker> hm... Leuven. Nice town :-)
09:52:26  <imus> you been there before?
09:52:45  <planetmaker> also, imus: we already once banned a whole US provider ;-). Yes, I've been briefly there for a day
09:53:06  <imus> ^^,
09:53:41  <V453000> hm, how do I make the junctionary "view all objects in the junctionary" work?
09:53:59  <V453000> when I just link to for example All_BBHs page, it includes the menu template again
09:54:50  <V453000> curently shows only SLHs and mergers
09:54:52  <planetmaker> on my way back from Nivelles and Brussels actually. Was worth the stop :-)
09:55:05  <V453000> ah no, something else even
09:55:08  <V453000> x.x
09:57:59  <imus> it shows the explanation when clicking on the first links now right? try to make it show the all_xxx page that is one level deeper :)
09:58:30  <V453000> ha, got it
09:58:44  <V453000> imus: ?
09:59:22  <imus> like for bbh => it shows the explanation about bbh as if you clicked on the bbh button on the junctionary page
09:59:46  <imus> could be more usefull to show the all_bbh instead
09:59:50  <imus> just an idea :)
10:00:02  <V453000> uhm
10:00:11  <V453000> there is a way how to show all bbhs already
10:00:13  <V453000> so why that
10:00:34  <V453000> you mean the links to this
10:00:52  <imus> nope
10:02:00  <imus> if you now click on the "view all objects..." you get this explanation for bbh but I think it's more usefull there to put
10:02:28  <imus> Or i'm missing the point of the view all objects button :)
10:03:12  <V453000> check now
10:03:40  <V453000> oh
10:03:51  <imus> missing the merger?
10:03:59  <V453000> yes of course
10:04:20  <imus> ^^
10:05:43  <V453000> parts are odd or weird as in format, logic page is only one so it includes the brief description, and dates for basically all images are wrong so they need adjusting based on archive dates
10:07:20  <V453000> but I am not really going to do everything tbh
10:07:40  *** Djarshi has quit IRC
10:07:46  <imus> why not, you're awesome =D
10:08:54  <V453000> it is not really as awesome to do everything from my side
10:09:03  <imus> ^^
10:09:18  <V453000> and everyone can just find dates in archives and fill them up
10:10:22  <imus> one quick question, what exactly happens here if 2 people modify a page at the same time?
10:10:56  <imus> does it have version control or anything? or is it just the latest saved update that is actually used?
10:11:15  <V453000> latest saved update I think
10:11:47  <imus> hmm, can be anoying if more people are updating the same pages then :s
10:12:06  <imus> the extra explanation for logics isn't so bad actually
10:12:07  <planetmaker> wiki has history
10:12:16  <imus> might use it on all of them
10:12:27  <imus> also gives a separation of the different blocks :)
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10:42:29  <imus> lunch time
10:42:31  <imus> see ya
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11:13:04  <V453000> thanks for the help imus with the wiki btw, really appreciated :)
11:13:10  <imus> :)
11:13:12  <imus> np
11:13:46  <imus> am now looking at how to add the small explenation to the view all objects page :)
11:14:13  <V453000> the <noinclude> or ?
11:14:24  <imus> that's what i added so the logics doesn't show
11:14:43  <imus> but I'm thinking if it would be better to have them all show a little text
11:15:10  <imus> so it's just adding the first pages like you had first
11:15:28  <imus> but I don't know how to reference yet XD
11:15:50  <imus> (correction: i know how to, but don't know where to find the names of the pages i like to refer to)
11:15:53  <V453000> what do you mean
11:16:17  <imus> as in: if i want to refer to the bbh page, what should i place between {{  }}
11:16:37  <V453000> :Junctionary_-_BBHs something like that
11:16:40  <V453000> it is in the ulr
11:16:42  <V453000> url
11:17:07  <imus> ah, didn't think of the url =D
11:17:09  <imus> thanks :)
11:17:22  <imus> gonne try it and see if it's better ^^
11:18:41  <imus> hmm, slh doesn't have a text either
11:18:53  <planetmaker> urgs... what kind of ugly tunnels did psg197 use?
11:19:36  <imus> hey V, could you add a little tekst in the slh page? similar to the one in logics (without the noinclude)
11:19:37  <V453000> japa
11:19:38  <V453000> n
11:19:41  <V453000> I consider them nice :)
11:20:09  <planetmaker> the tunnels?
11:20:10  <V453000> imus: why
11:20:17  <planetmaker> They totally don't fit that graphics style
11:20:21  <V453000> planetmaker: sure, part of japanese landscape
11:20:28  <V453000> why dont they?
11:20:38  <planetmaker> way too noisy compared to everything else
11:21:06  <V453000> the rest looks quite noisy too imo
11:21:08  <planetmaker> and the colours... don't quite match either
11:21:09  <imus> V453000 so that all of them got a little explanation :) it's sorta weird if one doesn't :p
11:21:12  <V453000> dont know, I think they fit perfectly
11:21:22  <V453000> hmm :)
11:21:31  <imus> it can be just 2 sentences if that says what it is :)
11:21:33  <imus> just something
11:21:55  <V453000> hm, fair point imus
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11:22:59  <Dilandau> hello
11:23:03  <Dilandau> !password
11:23:03  <PublicServer> Dilandau: griefs
11:23:15  <V453000> hmm actually ...
11:23:24  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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11:23:30  <V453000> it might be a good idea to separate the SLHs on basic and ... some other category for the current ones
11:23:46  <planetmaker> don't over-separate stuff
11:23:59  <planetmaker> 12 categories with overall 15 entries is too much ;-)
11:24:25  <Dilandau> make an SLH for Coal only, etc.... ?
11:24:39  <V453000> Dilandau: talking about the wiki
11:24:42  <planetmaker> though... there's still the overview page. Doesn't matter then, I guess
11:24:44  <Dilandau> oh ok ^^
11:25:31  <V453000> planetmaker: if you just look at the first several SLHs, they are not relevant nowadays anymore really, so I would just ... separate them a bit
11:25:40  <V453000> there still should be the option to view all SLHs anyway
11:25:46  <planetmaker> make a history section :-)
11:25:51  <imus>
11:26:07  <imus> how does that look?
11:26:13  <V453000> very nice imus, much clearer
11:26:18  <imus> ^^,
11:27:39  <planetmaker> hm... many SLHs w/o any prio :S
11:28:01  <V453000> yes, for example such stuff
11:29:02  <planetmaker> suggestion: when I click on - for example - category "stations" have it display by default the "all stations" page
11:29:54  <V453000> dunno that page is _long_ and it doesnt even have pickup stations atm
11:31:36  <imus> if you're going through the pages by clicking on station, it means you're probably looking for something more specific so it's good as it is now. If you wanted to just see everything from the start you'd probably have clicked on the "view all objects .." thing :)
11:32:29  <planetmaker> small thing but nice: instead of "Download Savegame" "Download PSG xyz"
11:32:42  <V453000> just update the template pm :)
11:32:53  <V453000> or, templateS, the pz one too
11:34:22  <planetmaker> that failed :-P
11:34:38  <imus> wouldn't that require all uses of that template to be modified as well?
11:34:53  <imus> to give the name of the game as an argument
11:35:23  <V453000> it can use that somehow
11:35:37  <V453000> the argument is already put there as in game number
11:35:44  <V453000> guess it should be doable
11:36:14  <V453000> oh :D
11:38:05  <planetmaker> works now :-)
11:38:21  <planetmaker> missed on level of { }
11:38:41  <V453000> hehe, so easy to happen :)
11:38:47  <imus> :)
11:40:14  <planetmaker> hm, dates are all wrong, right?
11:41:58  <V453000> yes
11:42:07  <V453000> just needs to find an appropriate date in archive
11:42:17  <V453000> just monkey work, anyone could do that
11:42:53  <V453000> imus: SLHs have the few sentences now... and we should make the few categories
11:43:22  <V453000> so we should probably make pages SLHs, Old SLHs, New SLHs, and All_SLHs
11:43:51  <V453000> you could do that if you want :)
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11:44:58  <Vinnie_nl> !playercount
11:44:59  <PublicServer> Vinnie_nl: Number of players: 2 (0 spectators)
11:45:32  <Vinnie_nl> !password
11:45:33  <PublicServer> Vinnie_nl: honing
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11:46:01  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> hello
11:46:16  <V453000> hy
11:46:21  <imus> hi
11:47:01  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> hi
11:47:03  <imus> we already got the page SLHs right? only the hubs themselves should be moved to the correct sub group  :)
11:47:28  <imus> now how do i make a now page ... :)
11:47:44  <V453000> yes exactly
11:47:51  <V453000> just type the new page url in the browser
11:48:06  <V453000> and it will automatically create it and move you to the edit more od if
11:48:11  <V453000> edit mode of it
11:48:14  <V453000> duh :D
11:48:19  <imus> XD
11:49:26  <imus> how do you make the menu?
11:49:54  <V453000> throught templates ... if you edit the original page then in the bottom is the list of used templates
11:50:01  <V453000> *through
11:50:45  <imus> so just add the template you want to create to the page, then click the edit button at the botom to create it?
11:50:56  <planetmaker> that works, yes
11:51:16  <imus> kk :)
11:51:16  <planetmaker> you could also just create a template by hacking the URL in the browser to a new page with the template's name
11:51:29  <planetmaker> but using it undefined and then editing it is easier
11:51:33  <imus> o.O
11:51:42  <imus> I'm no hacker :p
11:51:52  <imus> not even a script kiddy :)
11:52:16  <planetmaker> well... "hack": <-- just change the tilte
11:52:28  <planetmaker> it's not a hack. It's just knowing the right URL
11:52:49  <V453000> planetmaker: you bad monkey you did not edit the PZgamesave template :P
11:52:57  <planetmaker> :-P
11:53:12  <planetmaker> V453000: it then should use a common base template ;-)
11:53:19  <planetmaker> Bad template design :-P
11:53:41  <V453000> :D k
11:54:17  <planetmaker> let's see
11:54:31  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00004850:
11:55:19  <planetmaker> unifying that might be more pain than gain though ;-)
11:55:33  <V453000> I thought that too :)
11:57:37  <planetmaker> one *could* use one template though like "SaveGame" with the (optional parameter of the server like "PS" or "PZ" (with default "PS")
11:58:09  <V453000> possibly :)
11:58:35  <imus> we need images for the menu :(
11:59:17  <V453000> I will make them
12:02:10  <V453000> hm
12:02:22  <V453000> just need to think about it a bit I guess :D
12:02:54  <planetmaker> the current pictograms are not that bad actually
12:02:54  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> ah men BBH03 is a mess
12:03:50  <V453000> the current ones are fine pm, I just need an "old SLH", "new SLH" and "all SLHs" pictograms which I atm have no clue how to explain in the image :p
12:04:19  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> grayscale vs full coloured
12:04:34  <imus> make them vinnie :)
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12:04:45  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> wut what happend
12:04:56  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> ?
12:04:56  <imus> we need those 3 pictograms
12:05:10  <imus> you said "grayscale vs full coloured" I replied make them :)
12:05:14  <V453000> I will make them, just give me time :p
12:05:18  <imus> kk
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12:05:51  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> nah i am gonna do some other stuff on the wiki later
12:07:15  <V453000> what exactly? :)
12:08:59  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> a how to on coop style building.  for a SP game. more like a game on stable where you start small and then expand it into something big.
12:09:32  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0000475A:
12:09:54  <V453000> uhm
12:09:56  <V453000> how is that useful
12:10:22  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> to get some experience instead of jumping in the deep here
12:10:37  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> some dont dare that jump
12:12:30  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> has the game been chenged in the last day. I lost a mountain near SLH01
12:15:19  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> >><<
12:15:27  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> nice
12:20:01  <V453000> wel, the jump ... stable-like game tends to be _so_ far away from here
12:20:27  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yeah true but it can be some practise
12:20:50  <V453000> tbh much better practice is to just try on your own :)
12:20:58  <V453000> not be told what to do
12:21:36  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> guide doesn't tell you what to do.
12:22:10  <imus> 't could be better if the experienced players tell some newbies that are online at that time to do something specific knowing that you're helping them if needed. starting with just connecting a primary or building their first SLH
12:22:37  <V453000> yes, rather, since that is in the correct environment
12:22:47  <V453000> not just some stable-like stuff
12:23:19  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> didn't we do that already?
12:23:36  <V453000> where is it then?
12:24:05  <V453000> and even if there is something like that, I believe it could be improved
12:24:20  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> the part imus said is not written down
12:24:32  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00004579:
12:24:49  <V453000> then why do you say we did that already ._.
12:25:25  <imus> what I said is something you should do here in chat while some newbies are in game, just looking cause they don't know what to do
12:25:27  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i think i am lost now.
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12:25:42  <imus> not something you should write a wiki about :p
12:26:12  <V453000> ah then I misunderstood a bit as well
12:26:17  <imus> ^^,
12:26:48  <V453000> what my point was, that a wiki article helping with "how to recognise and find a SLH", "how to connect first primary", "what to consider when connecting a simple primary" etc
12:26:56  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> imus part is ingame help if I understand it well
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12:27:00  <V453000> to ... help with being involved
12:27:24  <V453000> ingame and IRC help is what we do and always did, nothing to discuss imo
12:28:02  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> oke then i find some new things on the wiki to enhance
12:29:09  <V453000> there are many, many, sooo many outdated articles
12:29:11  <imus> the old+new slh pages are created, but I don't know which slh should go to which page :) so if someone could move them to the correct one would be nice ^^
12:29:40  <V453000> imus: everything up to the "Corner SLH" goes to old
12:29:46  <imus> aha
12:29:47  <V453000> and everything after that goes to new
12:30:22  <V453000> and there are even some missing wiki articles for example on PF traps, "the arrows" could use an article themselves, and what not
12:30:43  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i have a corner / invisible SLH design. want a picture of that?
12:30:46  <V453000> there were ideas to make some pieces of my blogs into a wiki, anything
12:30:54  <V453000> sure
12:31:02  <V453000> in which game is it
12:31:19  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> its a design in my head
12:31:23  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i make a savegame
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12:32:40  <Maraxus> !password
12:32:40  <PublicServer> Maraxus: pickle
12:32:54  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus joined the game
12:32:56  <V453000> hm
12:32:56  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> hi
12:33:06  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> hi
12:33:19  <V453000> you know I will have a look at anything people send me, but of course actually building something in games is useful
12:33:54  <V453000> but the current junctionary is not about finding new designs but rather about finding old things that were already done from the archives
12:34:02  <V453000> if that is what you point at
12:34:36  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> so you want a place to store all used designs?
12:34:46  <V453000> what else is a junctionary for?
12:37:22  <imus>
12:38:49  <V453000> imus: good I will replace the images soon
12:39:00  <imus> :)
12:39:09  <V453000> anyway, now we need a new category, that being "City Networks"
12:39:13  <V453000> I forgot that from the beginning
12:39:19  <V453000> I have a picture for that right away
12:39:33  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00004573:
12:39:36  <V453000> it should be just a single category ... like Junctionary/City networks, bam, done
12:43:31  <imus> !password
12:43:31  <PublicServer> imus: retort
12:43:47  <PublicServer> *** imus joined the game
12:44:04  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> hi imus
12:44:08  <KenjiE20> if you want a 'tasklist' for the wiki, look up the ReviewEvent page
12:44:20  <PublicServer> <imus> was already in chat for a while Dilandau ^^, just joined the game now :)
12:46:06  <Vinnie_nl> KenjiE20: looked at has dates of 2009 :)
12:46:28  <V453000> yes
12:46:38  <V453000> that just shows how outdated it is :)
12:47:05  <imus> :p
12:47:19  <PublicServer> <imus> anything needs building in the game?
12:47:51  <Vinnie_nl> oke BBH page must be looked at but i wanna merge it with V his ABR. let me do that this weekend
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12:50:45  <V453000> uhm why is the BBH that bad?
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12:51:21  <V453000> actually one of the "fine" pages imo
12:51:22  <Vinnie_nl> maybe link it to the junctary merge page and also include sweet spot
12:51:35  <V453000> no, you dont need any of that
12:51:39  <V453000> link to merges, why not
12:51:58  <KenjiE20> which page V?
12:52:16  <V453000> but you need to see the difference between a blog and between a wiki - wiki should help you to build it imo, blog provides some not-so-needed deeper info I think
12:52:22  <V453000>
12:52:28  <KenjiE20> ah
12:52:43  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> i have added a 5th brige at BBH01 inner but i think we need a better merge  before
12:53:14  <KenjiE20> one of the many "Mark-was-rewriting-before-he-went-to-Aus" pages
12:53:18  <V453000> yes
12:53:35  <V453000> all I would do is probably just link to the appropriate blog article, doesnt need anything else
12:53:35  <^Spike^> well.. what is wrong with the bbh on that page if i may ask
12:53:38  <V453000> the page itself is fine
12:53:39  <KenjiE20> iirc it's marked as claimed/ready for finalising
12:53:45  <V453000> yes
12:54:06  <KenjiE20> I should do another sweep on the review page I guess
12:54:08  <^Spike^> unless you're talking about the example at the top
12:54:33  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00003F67:
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13:02:04  <V453000> ok, SLH images added
13:02:40  <imus> looks good :)
13:03:37  <V453000> and there go city networks
13:03:49  <PublicServer> <imus> ?
13:04:08  <V453000> in junctionary/
13:04:30  <imus> aha :)
13:09:33  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00004174:
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13:18:26  <V453000> !password
13:18:27  <PublicServer> V453000: burros
13:18:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> hi
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13:18:38  <PublicServer> <imus> hi
13:19:05  <PublicServer> <imus> someone removed my bypass !here
13:19:11  <PublicServer> <imus> so we got james again
13:19:17  <PublicServer> <imus> jams*
13:19:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> any bypass is wrong
13:19:30  <PublicServer> <imus> it was effectiv
13:19:32  <PublicServer> <imus> e
13:19:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> when you get trains out of the SLH, you must also have a way how to get them in
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13:20:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> equal traffic
13:20:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> oh you mean the merger
13:20:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> still :)
13:20:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> if the trains are able to merge into 5 lines after SLH, they must be able to merge into 5 lines before it
13:20:41  <PublicServer> <imus> if you get a wave wanting to go off it blocks the ml
13:20:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> why would you get waves
13:21:02  <PublicServer> <imus> donno, but it blocked the ml :p
13:21:08  <PublicServer> <imus> so ml after it was empty
13:21:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> to "build for waves" on a normal network like this is weird by itself
13:21:32  <PublicServer> <imus> look at !here
13:22:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> just overloaded
13:23:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> lets make dirty 2nd
13:23:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> for now
13:23:02  <PublicServer> <imus> solve it by making the trains past !here to move the corner one
13:23:15  <PublicServer> <imus> to use the corner slh 01 there
13:23:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> no that wont help
13:23:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> you still need to get trains _out_ of the SL 11
13:23:33  <PublicServer> <imus> not?
13:23:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> and of course, because trains do get both in and out of the SL, the exit line stops being enough as well at this point
13:24:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> by making a bypass from the SL entrance you make nothing else but jam the exit
13:24:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> not even considering that exitting trains are full and thus less of them fits into 1 line
13:24:34  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00005632:
13:24:36  <PublicServer> <imus> jamming a sl is less bad than jamming a ml, no?
13:24:38  <PublicServer> <V453000> which isnt too significant here anyway
13:24:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> neither should jam
13:24:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> why would you have a jamming SL
13:24:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> you could just remove trains from it
13:25:22  <PublicServer> <imus> why doesn't !there solve the problem
13:25:29  <PublicServer> <imus> make trains use both entry exit on that slh
13:25:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> because it jams SL exit?
13:25:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> then 01 will jam, look at it now
13:26:37  <PublicServer> <imus> hmm, that one's crouded as well
13:26:41  <PublicServer> <imus> you have a point
13:26:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> I wouldnt say it otherwise :)
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13:31:08  <PublicServer> <imus> is it ok to have a forest connected if all trains servicing it lose money?
13:31:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> why wouldnt it
13:31:26  <PublicServer> <imus> seems so pointless :p
13:31:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> network wise or stupid-profit wise? :)
13:32:06  <PublicServer> <imus> stupid profit wise :p
13:32:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> nobody cares about that here ;)
13:32:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> that way you could easily say "ok, we transport wood only from the south to make profit"
13:32:53  <PublicServer> <imus> it takes 18 trains (even more actually) to travel 18 effective squares
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13:33:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> which would have the only effect that it would make the network have a few flows of cargo types
13:33:18  <PublicServer> <imus> making a huge detour to reach the dropoff
13:33:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> and zero randomness
13:33:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes, doesnt matter
13:33:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> at all
13:33:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> in total we make at least some profit = works
13:34:33  <PublicServer> <imus> i wonder if those make profit :p
13:34:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> ?
13:34:51  <PublicServer> <imus> depends on how much the goods trains make from it
13:35:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> well
13:35:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> why do you even care about the profits when you can just reduce them with an additional newgrf
13:35:38  <PublicServer> <V453000> usually..
13:35:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> and playing for profit usually means playing simplier in general
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13:36:10  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> money :D
13:36:33  <PublicServer> <imus> i'm talking about comparing !this 1 to !this 2
13:36:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> right now we can say our profit is "only" double of what trains cost each year, which is very low ... is the game bad then? :)
13:37:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> they have the same role in this network
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13:37:21  <mfb-> hi
13:37:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> they create the same connection from the same SLH to the same destination and they even produce about the same amount of cargo to flood the network with
13:37:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> hi mfb
13:37:27  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> hi
13:37:27  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> hello
13:37:37  <PublicServer> <imus> hi mfb
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13:37:51  <PublicServer> <imus> ok, by that resoning, agreed :)
13:38:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> primaries are just the source of generating traffic for us, nothing more
13:38:51  <PublicServer> <mfb> 6 lines in the inner ring :)
13:39:02  <PublicServer> <imus> and we still had a jam :p
13:39:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> only at one spot I think
13:39:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> the spoke mergers are dirty and it is starting to show :)
13:39:29  <Maraxus> !password
13:39:29  <PublicServer> Maraxus: nephew
13:39:34  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0000202B:
13:39:38  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> more like BBH03 outer is starting to show
13:39:40  <PublicServer> <mfb> which?
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13:39:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> at least 01 and 02
13:40:25  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm
13:40:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm they somewhat work now
13:40:29  <PublicServer> <mfb> 03 outer is bad
13:40:39  <PublicServer> <mfb> sending jams back to SLH03
13:40:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> mh
13:41:14  <PublicServer> <mfb> wtf
13:41:42  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> nice
13:41:54  <PublicServer> <mfb> outer lines need more traffic at 03 outer
13:42:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is why I "bolstered outer choice" but it isnt enough probably
13:43:52  <V453000> !rcon set path_backoff_interval
13:43:52  <PublicServer> V453000: Current value for 'path_backoff_interval' is: '1' (min: 1, max: 255)
13:44:22  <V453000> PBS seems slower than ever with those trains
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13:48:38  <V453000> later
13:48:42  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> cya
13:48:44  <PublicServer> <imus> cya
13:48:48  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> cu
13:49:02  <PublicServer> <mfb> cu
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13:52:42  <Patrickov> !password
13:52:43  <PublicServer> Patrickov: debits
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13:53:12  <PublicServer> <Patrickov> Hello everybody
13:53:14  <PublicServer> <imus> hi
13:53:14  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> hi
13:53:16  <PublicServer> <mfb> hi
13:53:19  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> hi
13:54:10  <PublicServer> <Patrickov> Just wish to  know the current status or aims
13:54:24  <PublicServer> <Patrickov> I mean learn
13:54:31  <PublicServer> <mfb> increase capacity
13:54:34  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 000069F7:
13:54:36  <PublicServer> <mfb> add trains
13:54:38  <PublicServer> <mfb> in that order
13:55:03  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> oke what fails now
13:55:19  <PublicServer> <mfb> BBH03 outer could be better
13:55:27  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i see you working on it
13:55:34  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> but i think we need to start over
13:55:34  <V453000> Patrickov: add trains as long as we are having fun, unjam, finish :P not too complicated to say
13:56:06  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> if we start over we can make it a 6+6 join so the spoke will also be fine for some time
13:56:44  <PublicServer> <Patrickov> Then we probably need to move SLH05
13:57:34  <PublicServer> <mfb> why?
13:57:45  <PublicServer> <Patrickov> It's too close to BBH03
13:57:51  <PublicServer> <Patrickov> Or is BBH03 outer too big?
13:58:01  <PublicServer> <mfb> do we look at the same BBH?
13:58:23  <PublicServer> <mfb> the distance is fine
13:59:06  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> mfb we just make more balanced choices?
13:59:17  <PublicServer> <mfb> 03?
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13:59:24  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yes BBH03 outer?
13:59:30  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> without ?
13:59:30  <PublicServer> <mfb> may help
13:59:48  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> can i remove the double parts so we create space
13:59:52  <Patrickov> !password
13:59:52  <PublicServer> Patrickov: debits
13:59:56  <PublicServer> <mfb> why/who/when did these strange bridges between BBH01 inner and SLH06?
14:00:06  <PublicServer> <mfb> of course
14:00:17  <Patrickov> !password
14:00:17  <PublicServer> Patrickov: debits
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14:02:38  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> nice look at this one
14:02:51  <PublicServer> <mfb> ?
14:02:53  <PublicServer> <Patrickov> Seems that trains don't like long bridges?
14:03:10  <PublicServer> <mfb> the prefer shorter ones#
14:03:20  <PublicServer> <mfb> so what
14:03:25  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i removed half of the splits from one ML
14:04:26  <PublicServer> <mfb> :p
14:04:34  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> 3 for each lane ? :p
14:05:00  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> wtf
14:05:08  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> its getting quite empty
14:05:15  <PublicServer> <imus> lol
14:07:22  <PublicServer> <mfb> oh... someone removed the mountain at SLH07
14:09:35  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00006DF9:
14:10:06  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> now lets see
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14:12:20  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> hmm
14:12:56  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> damn
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14:12:58  <PublicServer> <imus> lol :p
14:13:02  <PublicServer> <imus> murderer :p
14:13:10  <PublicServer> <imus> just stop a train first next time
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14:13:43  <PublicServer> <mfb> too time-consuming to do that every time
14:14:14  <PublicServer> <mfb> some permille loss rate is ok ;)
14:14:50  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> so lets raid the merger
14:16:21  <PublicServer> <mfb> like that?
14:16:33  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> no i want 2 lines
14:17:28  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm
14:17:37  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> it actually can be 2 diffrent ones
14:17:43  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> they go to the same join
14:17:52  <PublicServer> <mfb> oh, right
14:18:18  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> but now the join goes to 3 lines not 4
14:18:36  <PublicServer> <mfb> ?
14:19:01  <PublicServer> <mfb> what about the other stuff?
14:19:23  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> other stuff?
14:19:33  <PublicServer> <mfb> see signs
14:19:49  <PublicServer> <mfb> patrickov: nothing is permanent in this game
14:20:06  <PublicServer> <Patrickov> I mean "in your current plan"
14:20:19  <PublicServer> <Patrickov> signs don't allow too many words ya know
14:20:43  <PublicServer> <Patrickov> Sometimes writing signs can be as difficults as designing hubs
14:20:46  <PublicServer> <mfb> 3 lines to the outer MLs are fine if they have some balancing
14:20:56  <PublicServer> <mfb> write more signs then :D
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14:21:10  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> oke then no 4th atm
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14:22:44  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i dont like the gaps
14:22:50  <PublicServer> <mfb> there are no gaps now
14:24:02  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> split it into 2 tracks again?
14:24:09  <PublicServer> <mfb> what?
14:24:20  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> this
14:24:25  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm
14:24:35  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 000076F4:
14:24:37  <PublicServer> <mfb> tricky to connect
14:25:06  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> btw i am just doing stuff no plan at all
14:26:14  <PublicServer> <mfb> plans can fail. without plan, you don't have that problem
14:26:27  <PublicServer> <imus> without plans, you can fail as well :)
14:26:42  <PublicServer> <mfb> with what :p
14:26:48  <PublicServer> <mfb> just define the outcome as your plan
14:26:51  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> if you fail to plan you plan to fail
14:26:59  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> but who said that?
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14:28:10  <PublicServer> <mfb> moved the line a bit
14:31:24  <PublicServer> <mfb> interesting prio idea
14:31:38  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> xx
14:31:45  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> thats a double join
14:31:55  <PublicServer> <mfb> ?
14:32:06  <PublicServer> <mfb> that is why I added a prio for both lines
14:32:20  <PublicServer> <mfb> oh
14:32:22  <PublicServer> <mfb> ok
14:32:39  <PublicServer> <mfb> but one has a long bridge
14:33:11  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> what would be a good length then?
14:33:27  <PublicServer> <mfb> shorter is better ;)
14:33:33  <PublicServer> <Patrickov> agree
14:34:02  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm
14:34:08  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i cant make it shorter now
14:34:10  <PublicServer> <mfb> +waiting bay after the bridge
14:35:11  <PublicServer> <mfb> :(
14:35:15  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> ?
14:35:23  <PublicServer> <mfb> was a nice join
14:35:42  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> why not anymore?
14:35:51  <PublicServer> <mfb> because it is gone
14:36:30  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> want me to reverse it?
14:36:32  <PublicServer> <mfb> pbs at "connect better"?
14:36:36  <PublicServer> <mfb> no, it is fine
14:37:49  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> oke what to break next
14:38:28  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm does not work
14:38:39  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> why not?
14:38:46  <PublicServer> <mfb> CL, no signal
14:38:49  <PublicServer> <mfb> something like that
14:38:59  <PublicServer> <mfb> ah
14:39:01  <PublicServer> <mfb> move the ML
14:39:35  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00006DF0:
14:42:48  <PublicServer> *** Patrickov has left the game (connection lost)
14:42:52  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm no, that does not help enough
14:43:08  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> talking about what?
14:43:18  <PublicServer> <mfb> moving the MLs
14:43:47  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> no please
14:43:56  <PublicServer> <mfb> ok
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14:47:17  <Patrickov_> !password
14:47:17  <PublicServer> Patrickov_: expend
14:47:38  <PublicServer> *** Patrickov joined the game
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14:48:01  <PublicServer> <mfb> more TF?
14:48:10  <PublicServer> <mfb> I can move the ML again
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14:49:13  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> who is messing up the south part
14:49:19  <PublicServer> <Patrickov> Sorry
14:49:25  <PublicServer> <Patrickov> Should not use PBS
14:49:39  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> assume that PBS is always wrong
14:49:53  <PublicServer> <mfb> :D
14:50:10  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> only assumption that is not the mother of a fuckup
14:50:16  <PublicServer> <Patrickov> Well as I usually build metros in single player games
14:50:26  <PublicServer> <Patrickov> I had some kind of obsession with pbs
14:51:09  <PublicServer> <mfb> better
14:51:51  <PublicServer> <mfb> 6th :/
14:51:53  <PublicServer> <mfb> tunnels?
14:51:55  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i know
14:54:02  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> lets see if i am not lost atm
14:54:36  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 000076FB:
14:54:44  <PublicServer> <mfb> double connected
14:54:55  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yeah someone touched it
14:55:00  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> how was the original
14:55:12  <PublicServer> <mfb> and the other connection is missing
14:55:46  <PublicServer> <mfb> like that
14:55:48  <PublicServer> <mfb> just better
14:56:40  <PublicServer> <mfb> major jam somehow
14:56:55  <PublicServer> *** Patrickov has left the game (connection lost)
14:56:57  <PublicServer> <mfb> ah, temporary stuff
14:57:03  <PublicServer> <mfb> all try to use SLH11
14:57:57  <Patrickov_> I keep getting connection lost so I think I can't help by the moment (I know I probably mess up things more though), seeya later, sorry
14:58:07  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> its a mess atm :)
14:58:41  <PublicServer> <imus> solve missing 6th at hub by doing 3 -> 2 !here?
14:58:47  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus has left the game (connection lost)
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14:58:55  <PublicServer> <mfb> no
14:58:59  <PublicServer> <mfb> the 6th will come again
14:59:07  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> 6th is easy
14:59:16  <Maraxus> !password
14:59:16  <PublicServer> Maraxus: madams
14:59:29  <PublicServer> <mfb> jamming in circles now
14:59:36  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus joined the game
14:59:44  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i am getting laggs now
15:01:33  <PublicServer> <imus> circular jam ftl :p
15:04:31  <PublicServer> <mfb> ?
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15:07:32  <PublicServer> <mfb> :D
15:09:36  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 000078E0:
15:09:55  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> lets call that crap
15:10:53  <PublicServer> <mfb> as long as it works, it is not crap
15:12:09  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i am going insane
15:12:24  <PublicServer> <mfb> 1 :/
15:12:26  <PublicServer> <imus> i just made a temp connection there to solve the jam
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15:16:02  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> now the question is where did the 5th ML come from
15:16:19  <PublicServer> <mfb> ?
15:16:55  <PublicServer> <imus> lol again
15:17:15  <PublicServer> <imus> that's for not having a plan :p
15:17:32  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> your evil. just watching and laughing
15:17:36  <PublicServer> <imus> ofc =D
15:17:52  <PublicServer> <mfb> ok
15:18:00  <PublicServer> <mfb> spoke is out of the way now
15:18:20  <PublicServer> <imus> no join on the 6th?
15:18:30  <PublicServer> <mfb> comes later
15:18:32  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> complete 2 has no connection to inner 2 ML anyway
15:18:58  <PublicServer> <mfb> the BBH does not need all to all at all ;)
15:19:24  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> oke because 2 has no connection to the outer 2 ML
15:20:06  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i bet its slow as shit soon
15:20:11  <PublicServer> <imus> hmm
15:20:13  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> and need a rebuild :)
15:20:15  <PublicServer> <imus> hehe
15:20:18  <mfb-> no
15:20:27  <PublicServer> <imus> try rebuilding it with a plan then :p
15:20:29  <PublicServer> <mfb> we have trains from all 4 lines
15:20:37  <PublicServer> <mfb> and need to join them to all 6 lines
15:20:43  <PublicServer> <mfb> but not all to all
15:21:19  <PublicServer> <imus> if all 4 go to at least 4, it's plenty as long as it's divided ok
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15:21:34  <PublicServer> <mfb> as long as a join to the ML is always full, there is no way to increase the amount of trains joining this ML
15:22:29  <PublicServer> <mfb> not related to the BBH
15:23:10  <PublicServer> <imus> to prevent too many trains from taking that join or so?
15:23:12  <PublicServer> <imus> no idea
15:23:20  <PublicServer> <mfb> the bridge ;)
15:23:38  <PublicServer> <mfb> prio is fine
15:23:40  <PublicServer> <mfb> and it works
15:23:55  <PublicServer> <mfb> but it looks strange
15:24:09  <PublicServer> <imus> actually it's wrong :p
15:24:19  <PublicServer> <mfb> ?
15:24:33  <PublicServer> <imus> entire TL btw lights
15:24:36  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00006AF1:
15:24:39  <PublicServer> <imus> ah no srry
15:24:41  <PublicServer> <imus> missed the white one
15:24:47  <V453000> !password
15:24:47  <PublicServer> V453000: boomed
15:24:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> hi
15:24:57  <PublicServer> *** V453000 joined the game
15:24:59  <PublicServer> <imus> hi V
15:25:05  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> hi
15:25:13  <PublicServer> <imus> they're ruining bbh 03 :)
15:25:15  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> hey
15:25:15  <PublicServer> <imus> outer one
15:25:49  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> your a snitch
15:25:51  <PublicServer> <imus> ofc =D
15:25:57  <PublicServer> <imus> you guys TF'd too much :p
15:26:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> lol
15:26:40  <PublicServer> <imus> look at !mountain gone
15:26:52  <PublicServer> <mfb> it is not gone
15:26:55  <PublicServer> <mfb> just lower than before
15:26:57  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> its lower
15:26:59  <PublicServer> <imus> ok, just cut in half :p
15:27:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> there was no mountain before
15:27:33  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> its still crap imo
15:27:35  <PublicServer> <imus> ok, i'm exagerating, but it was lowered a lot :p
15:28:28  <PublicServer> <imus> got to go
15:28:30  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> cya
15:28:32  <PublicServer> <imus> cya
15:28:36  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> cya
15:28:38  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> cu
15:28:38  <PublicServer> <mfb> cu
15:28:42  <PublicServer> *** imus has left the game (leaving)
15:29:04  <imus> sorry for being anoying btw ^^, you didn't really do anything wrong
15:29:24  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i did not listen anyway :D
15:29:32  <imus> haha
15:29:34  <imus> cya
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15:29:59  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm
15:30:10  <PublicServer> <mfb> SLH05 -> exit to 5th missing
15:30:22  <PublicServer> <mfb> you took the one and changed it to 6th :(
15:30:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> LOL
15:30:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> :D
15:30:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> thats funny
15:30:43  <PublicServer> <mfb> oh
15:30:45  <PublicServer> <mfb> sorry
15:30:50  <PublicServer> <mfb> ok
15:30:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes :) hidden
15:31:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> but the empty tunnel near the 5th sign is just so misleading
15:31:06  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> its nice isnt it
15:31:13  <PublicServer> <mfb> yeah
15:31:55  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> nice BBH 03 is now from /all. means your all responsible
15:32:12  <PublicServer> <mfb> northern line is a bit slow
15:33:36  <PublicServer> <mfb> better
15:33:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> does the !why PBS have any reason?
15:34:00  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm
15:34:07  <PublicServer> <mfb> that has been modified
15:34:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> I dont thnk it has
15:34:16  <PublicServer> <mfb> now it looks useless
15:34:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> this way faster?
15:35:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> this is better probably
15:35:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> fits waiting bay signals
15:35:27  <PublicServer> <mfb> now it fits
15:35:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> cant see the change but meh, this is fine
15:36:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> shorten that instead?
15:36:32  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> y
15:36:52  <PublicServer> <mfb> like that?
15:37:10  <PublicServer> <mfb> bad for the waiting bays maybe
15:37:32  <PublicServer> <mfb> that fits
15:39:37  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00008FF4:
15:39:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> should work
15:40:48  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> BBH01 O 4 lines?
15:41:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> the spoke?
15:41:05  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yes
15:41:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm
15:41:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> probably yes
15:41:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> but that way you will need 7 on outer ring
15:41:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> quite a lot of traffic now already
15:41:50  <PublicServer> <mfb> expanding the station is easy ;)
15:41:52  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> so we are doing a massive line count game again
15:42:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> well, we can stop the game anytime :)
15:42:18  <PublicServer> <mfb> 2k should be possible ;)
15:42:26  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> but makeing the outer ring 7th and 8th at the same time is easy
15:42:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> 2k sounds like a reasonable goal
15:42:41  <XeryusTC> V453000: are you going to upgrade coal tonight?
15:42:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> dont know
15:42:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> do it if you want
15:43:11  <XeryusTC> i dont feel like doing it that much :P
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15:43:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> feel free to rebuild it :)
15:43:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> 7th or 8th?
15:44:09  <XeryusTC> heh, upgrade = rebuild on that station anyway
15:44:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> true true
15:44:23  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> 7 then
15:44:24  <XeryusTC> no way that you can upgrade it to 4x4 without needing to do something about the placement of the drop :P
15:44:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> :)
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15:49:19  <PublicServer> <mfb> 7th
15:52:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm
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15:52:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> I am considering making some loong expandable merger
15:53:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is getting kinda sucky to rebuild a merger almost every time you add a few lins
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15:53:09  <PublicServer> <mfb> where?
15:53:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> 01
15:53:25  <PublicServer> <mfb> :p
15:53:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> towards a Aberffraw, long unused space there
15:53:34  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> like your station?
15:53:40  <PublicServer> <mfb> coal station can move a bit
15:53:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> no, that doesnt fit, but something technically similar
15:54:37  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00004942:
15:55:40  <XeryusTC> :D
15:55:41  <Webster> Title:" target="_blank"> - Ondertussen bij Joris op kantoor (at" target="_blank">
15:56:03  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> dumpert :DDDD
15:56:07  <mfb-> !rcon set max_trains 1668
15:56:09  <V453000> classic :D
15:56:46  <V453000> the HDD ones are good too :p
15:57:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm
15:57:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> with making 8 lines (or 7 and prepare for it) we could make 4 pairs of connections as they keep the throughput of 4 incoming lines
15:57:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> and just merge each connection with 2 lines
15:57:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> no that is nonsense
15:57:59  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> that would be so simple
15:58:13  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> and we need some balancing somewhere
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16:02:43  <XeryusTC>
16:04:04  <V453000> :D
16:04:59  <PublicServer> <mfb> SLH01 exit is jamming
16:05:07  <PublicServer> <mfb> coal station again
16:05:15  *** pugi has quit IRC
16:05:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> production dropped
16:05:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> were there some jams lately?
16:05:45  <PublicServer> <mfb> well, not the first time it jams there
16:06:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> lets see if prod goes up
16:06:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm :)
16:06:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> the mine already had 2k+ once
16:07:01  <PublicServer> <mfb> but not always
16:07:24  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> 999 coal january 2288
16:07:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> no but it tends to grow so it had to drop somehow
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16:09:38  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00007480:
16:10:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> duh ... brb in like 15 minutes max
16:10:24  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has joined spectators
16:12:31  <mfb-> ok, back to diablo3 ;)
16:12:50  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> qut?
16:12:52  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> wut?
16:13:06  <mfb-> .
16:13:26  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> but diablo 3 has no trains
16:13:45  <mfb-> that is true
16:14:35  <PublicServer> *** Vinnie has joined spectators
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16:14:43  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
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16:24:38  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00006B0F:
16:32:17  <Tray> !password
16:32:17  <PublicServer> Tray: jackal
16:32:32  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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16:46:08  <LXSJason> WTF! why you have access to D3! GIEF!
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16:49:36  <imus> IDENTIFY
16:49:51  <imus> hmm, what am i missing?
16:50:48  <V453000> someting in front of it
16:50:53  <V453000> but you should do that in private
16:51:00  <imus> ah
16:51:09  <imus> how do i do something private?
16:51:22  <V453000> write /query Nickserv
16:51:45  <imus> that for the identify or for the private?
16:51:52  <V453000> for the private
16:51:58  <V453000> then just write identify there
16:52:03  <V453000> and it will tell you what to do
16:52:19  <imus> aha
16:52:22  <imus> thanks :)
16:52:25  <V453000> sure
16:52:47  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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16:53:09  <imus> should've worked
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16:58:23  <KenjiE20> ask it status and it whould confirm
16:58:25  <KenjiE20> should*
16:58:44  <KenjiE20> or, a 'proper' client will do all that for you anyway on connect :p
16:59:12  <TWerkhoven> or at least you can make it do it
16:59:20  <KenjiE20> same difference
17:00:12  <imus> can you do that in the web irc?
17:00:20  <PublicServer> *** Dilandau has joined company #1
17:01:03  <KenjiE20> not that I know of
17:01:05  <TWerkhoven> no, as it would need to be configured every time you visit the site
17:01:10  <KenjiE20> it can't keep your settings
17:01:17  <imus> oh well
17:01:35  <KenjiE20> well, technically it could, but that would mean storing passwords in cookies =/
17:01:40  <imus> hmm
17:01:51  <KenjiE20> which is why it probably doesn't
17:02:10  <imus> true ^^
17:03:14  <imus> !password
17:03:14  <PublicServer> imus: kiting
17:03:27  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
17:03:27  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
17:03:30  <PublicServer> *** imus joined the game
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17:09:39  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00005CBD:
17:09:55  <PublicServer> <imus> anyone knows if you can define your own quickbuttons?
17:10:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> you can some
17:10:11  <PublicServer> <imus> how? :)
17:10:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> see the hotkeys.something file in openttd foldler in documents
17:10:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> but imo the default hotkeys are just fine
17:10:49  <imus> I'm missing one for hiding the stuff i'd like
17:10:52  <imus> don't like x
17:11:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> x bad?
17:11:10  <imus> hides more then i want :p
17:11:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> ctrl x
17:11:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> and set stuff
17:11:40  <PublicServer> <imus> aha
17:11:46  <PublicServer> <imus> that's the one i've been looking for :)
17:12:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> :)
17:17:23  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has left the game (leaving)
17:17:30  <V453000> later
17:17:40  <PublicServer> <imus> bye
17:17:46  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> cya
17:17:49  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> cu
17:18:58  <PublicServer> *** Vinnie has joined company #1
17:19:20  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> and hello again
17:19:26  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> hi^^
17:19:29  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> hi
17:19:50  <imus> hi
17:20:12  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> oke the BBH01 rebuild
17:20:18  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> but a repeatable design
17:20:34  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> who wants to give it a go?
17:20:55  <PublicServer> <imus> <- no clue on how to build a big bbh yet :)
17:21:03  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> i work on coal entrance :p (slh01)
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17:21:48  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> actually SLH01 is a great design for BBH01 outer
17:21:52  <PublicServer> <imus> it's got too many trains?
17:24:39  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00000556:
17:25:04  <PublicServer> <mfb> one ML is broken near SLH03?
17:25:16  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm now it works again
17:25:19  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> ok we have now 8 wait slot at Aberffraw Coal
17:25:22  <PublicServer> <mfb> no train used the ML (watched ~10)
17:25:56  <PublicServer> <imus> is't that 12 at the coal?
17:26:04  <PublicServer> <mfb> a ,ot
17:26:06  <PublicServer> <mfb> lot
17:26:12  <PublicServer> <imus> a bit overkill
17:26:18  <PublicServer> <imus> it has too many trains :p
17:26:22  <PublicServer> <mfb> I count 13
17:26:40  <PublicServer> <imus> 13?
17:26:43  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> a count before the first pre-sign
17:26:50  <PublicServer> *** mfb has joined company #1
17:27:08  <PublicServer> <imus> ah, i was just talking about the platforms
17:27:12  <PublicServer> <imus> why so many?
17:27:19  <PublicServer> <mfb> to avoid jams
17:27:28  <PublicServer> <imus> why so many trains in the first place?
17:27:47  <PublicServer> <mfb> production is high
17:27:51  <PublicServer> <mfb> as you can see
17:27:51  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> before only 8
17:28:17  <PublicServer> <mfb> now it can hold 25 trains
17:28:17  <PublicServer> <imus> true, but having 10 trains waiting at all times is a bit much no?
17:28:34  <PublicServer> <mfb> with 2k production, there are not 10 trains waiting
17:28:38  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> yes but if we recreate a BBH (for example)
17:28:40  <PublicServer> <imus> 1.3k
17:28:59  <PublicServer> <mfb> is quite time-dependent
17:29:03  <PublicServer> <imus> ah
17:29:07  <PublicServer> <imus> k
17:29:25  <PublicServer> <mfb> 1467 now
17:29:54  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> mfb how is !mergerdesign?
17:30:34  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> thx for the help :p
17:31:02  <aberwyvern> hi, i'm new to this coop thing, how do i join the server?
17:31:11  <mfb-> @quickstart
17:31:12  <Webster> Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki -
17:31:12  <PublicServer> <Vinnie>  @quickstart
17:31:38  <imus> welcome aberwyvern :)
17:32:01  <aberwyvern> thanks
17:33:08  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> no it a double for 1
17:33:25  <PublicServer> <mfb> what is 3 then?
17:33:33  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> the other inputs
17:33:37  <PublicServer> <mfb> ah
17:33:44  <aberwyvern> !password
17:33:45  <PublicServer> aberwyvern: earths
17:33:46  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> should be repeatable
17:33:49  <PublicServer> <mfb> so 3 is a part of the balancing
17:33:57  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yes
17:34:01  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm
17:34:16  <PublicServer> *** Aberwyvern joined the game
17:34:17  <PublicServer> <imus> hi
17:34:19  <PublicServer> <mfb> ~1/2 capacity for every join then
17:34:21  <PublicServer> <imus> you got in ^^
17:34:37  <PublicServer> <mfb> maybe some shift in between somehow
17:34:41  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> you mean double bridge the join?
17:34:43  <PublicServer> <mfb> or double bridges
17:34:45  <PublicServer> <Aberwyvern> hi, yes, thanks for the tip :)
17:35:04  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> double bridge will amke it big :(
17:35:12  <PublicServer> <mfb> one tile more per line
17:35:18  <PublicServer> <mfb> 4->5
17:35:24  <PublicServer> <mfb> 4*7=28
17:35:32  <PublicServer> <mfb> ok
17:35:37  <PublicServer> <mfb> 5*7 is bad
17:35:41  <PublicServer> <imus> XD
17:36:13  <PublicServer> <mfb> how to add an 8. later?
17:36:44  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> then build it next to it again
17:37:14  <PublicServer> <Aberwyvern> what is the goal with these complex railroad stations? profig?
17:37:17  <PublicServer> <Aberwyvern> profit*
17:37:31  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> only with double bridge the join will get also 5 tiles longer
17:37:41  <mfb-> aberwyvern: a large, flowing network
17:37:45  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> =5 * 4 joins = 20 tiles extra
17:38:02  <PublicServer> <mfb> ok, single bridges :D
17:38:10  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm
17:38:17  <PublicServer> <mfb> why would it get 5 tiles longer?
17:38:27  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> to make the merge !merge
17:38:36  <PublicServer> <mfb> just like that
17:38:41  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> use both bridges
17:38:47  <PublicServer> <mfb> no
17:38:50  <PublicServer> <Aberwyvern> ok so it's effiency, least stops, you are aiming for?
17:39:00  <PublicServer> <mfb> they can use only one after the first merge
17:39:02  <PublicServer> <mfb> but more later
17:39:08  <PublicServer> <imus> aiming for lots of trains :)
17:39:10  <PublicServer> <mfb> yes@efficiency
17:39:12  <PublicServer> <imus> without jams
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17:39:16  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> and reverse pbs the inner bridge?
17:39:22  <PublicServer> <mfb> something like that
17:39:40  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00003033:
17:41:21  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> ML yes
17:41:35  <PublicServer> <imus> only downside is = lots of pbs on a laggy server
17:41:55  <PublicServer> <Aberwyvern> im new so ill ask some stupid questions, if thats ok, why do some bridges go down, just before another bridge goes up?
17:42:01  <PublicServer> <mfb> that should not change anything
17:42:20  <PublicServer> <mfb> aberwyvern: maybe to bridge height differences. where?
17:42:34  <PublicServer> <imus> place a sign with "!here"
17:43:00  <PublicServer> *** Aberwyvern has joined company #1
17:43:36  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> only downside is that the last join will have more prio over the earlier joins
17:44:20  <PublicServer> <Aberwyvern> ok i placed sign now
17:44:22  <PublicServer> <mfb> to get a signal in between
17:44:58  <PublicServer> <Aberwyvern> ok, but couldn't you just raise the land and still have signal at same height as the bridges?
17:45:05  <PublicServer> <mfb> would make no difference
17:45:15  <PublicServer> <mfb> we play with realistic acceleration
17:45:18  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> but when possible done by some people
17:45:20  <PublicServer> <mfb> slopes do not matter
17:45:27  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> just for eyecandy
17:45:57  <PublicServer> <Aberwyvern> ok i see now, that the trains dont slow down, thanks :)
17:46:21  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> mfb replace the merger of 01?
17:46:27  <V453000> just enable realistic acceleration instead of original Aberwyvern
17:46:32  <V453000> it is much more playable
17:49:50  <TWerkhoven> possible the only place where V will go for 'realism'
17:49:57  <PublicServer> <imus> XD
17:52:38  <V453000> that is not realism
17:52:46  <V453000> only the thing is called that way
17:53:10  <PublicServer> <imus> trains not slowing down at all on uphill rails isn't really realistic
17:53:12  <V453000> and original acceleration model is just totally unplayable
17:53:29  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> imus they can slowdown
17:53:38  <V453000> yes it depends on further settings
17:53:42  <PublicServer> <imus> ^^
17:53:48  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> build a long train and play with your weight multiplier
17:53:52  <V453000> main point is that you _can_ build well with realistic acceleration
17:53:57  <V453000> original punishes you for everything
17:54:08  <PublicServer> <imus> yeah origina is anoying
17:54:11  <V453000> so it is literally better to play badly with original acceleration
17:54:22  <V453000> flat junctions without bridges, short curves, and what not
17:54:40  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0000125F:
17:55:15  <V453000> it is one of the things which I totally dont remember in TTD and I do not understand how could have anyone ever used it :D
17:55:30  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> V you still want to replace some mergers with ones that are easly expandable?
17:55:38  <V453000> maybe
17:55:42  <V453000> not sure
17:55:45  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i got a design
17:56:13  <V453000> !password
17:56:13  <PublicServer> V453000: tenths
17:56:21  <PublicServer> *** V453000 joined the game
17:56:23  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> BBH01
17:56:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> oh jesus
17:56:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> honestly or nicely?
17:56:41  <PublicServer> *** Tray joined the game
17:56:50  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> why is it bad?
17:57:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> firstly the eol split is just wrong, trains should have waiting spots
17:57:28  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> they can wait there
17:57:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> secondly wtf at the bridges
17:57:28  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm they had before
17:58:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> I understand how you mean it but I dont think it is good
17:58:03  <PublicServer> <mfb> like that
17:58:05  <PublicServer> <mfb> easy
17:58:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> try it, you might prove me wrong
17:58:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm maybe
17:58:38  <PublicServer> <V453000> might work .. try if you want
17:58:54  <PublicServer> <imus> gonne use 2way eol or presignaling?
17:59:08  <PublicServer> * mfb votes for presignals
17:59:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> 2way eol is not an option for that
17:59:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> imo
17:59:37  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> pre-signals is not a problem
17:59:37  <PublicServer> <imus> idonno how the eol reacts so don't ask me
18:00:58  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> no wait it cant :(
18:01:12  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> will be 32 tiles with for 7 lines
18:01:14  <PublicServer> <mfb> 32 tiles...
18:01:17  <PublicServer> <mfb> yeah
18:01:23  <PublicServer> <mfb> farms :/
18:01:26  <PublicServer> <mfb> coal mine :/
18:01:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> thing is
18:01:40  <PublicServer> <Tray> what are you talking about?
18:01:44  <PublicServer> <mfb> BBH01 outer
18:01:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> the closest farm has 14 tiles towards map edge
18:01:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> which isnt much for 7 lines
18:02:00  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yeah
18:02:15  <PublicServer> <mfb> we need less than ~30 tiles length for the merge
18:02:25  <PublicServer> <mfb> so that will work
18:02:41  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> it now will be 24 tiles long
18:02:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> might work yes
18:02:45  <PublicServer> <mfb> 6 per line
18:02:55  <PublicServer> <imus> only got 26 tiles next to aberffraw transfer
18:03:06  <PublicServer> <mfb> transfer can be moved
18:03:12  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm
18:03:17  <PublicServer> <Aberwyvern> is it ok if i try and expand the station called "borth oil"?
18:03:27  <PublicServer> <mfb> maybe we can join a bit more intelligent
18:03:49  <PublicServer> <mfb> why expand?
18:04:10  <PublicServer> <Aberwyvern> to get more trains, to pick up the oil
18:04:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> it doesnt jam so why would you expand it
18:04:27  <PublicServer> <mfb> the network capacity is the current limit
18:04:45  <PublicServer> <Aberwyvern> there is 4M liters of oil
18:04:49  <PublicServer> <Aberwyvern> oh ok, so no more trains?
18:04:57  <PublicServer> <mfb> we have some lost trains there
18:05:25  <PublicServer> <mfb> fixed
18:06:27  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus has joined company #1
18:06:50  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> back to rebuilding hubs again then
18:06:50  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm, the evil way
18:06:55  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> the hrad way
18:06:57  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> hard
18:06:59  <PublicServer> <mfb> ok, single bridge
18:07:09  <PublicServer> <mfb> accepted ;)
18:07:21  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> single bridge or the hard way?
18:07:31  <PublicServer> <mfb> what is the hard way?
18:07:41  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> rebuilding hubs from scratch
18:07:52  <PublicServer> <mfb> the concept?
18:08:02  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yeah
18:08:10  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> maybe diagonal lines
18:08:30  <PublicServer> <mfb> I don't think the problem will go away
18:08:34  <PublicServer> <mfb> but maybe we can join a bit earlier
18:08:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> not on smaller footprint
18:09:18  <PublicServer> <mfb> oh, I think we run into another problem
18:09:45  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0000085B:
18:09:51  <PublicServer> <mfb> cool
18:09:55  <PublicServer> <mfb> but not smaller
18:10:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is the same isnt it
18:10:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> oh you just give choice to both bridges
18:10:13  *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop
18:10:13  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o KenjiE20
18:10:17  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i tile shorter
18:10:26  <PublicServer> <mfb> shorter.. ok
18:10:41  <PublicServer> <mfb> but length is not our real problem
18:10:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> the primaries can be moved
18:11:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> not industries but the farm station can go
18:11:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> for the cost of a mountain but who cares about mountains
18:11:13  <PublicServer> <mfb> that is already included
18:11:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> oh
18:11:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm :)
18:11:31  *** Tray has quit IRC
18:11:31  <PublicServer> *** Tray has left the game (connection lost)
18:11:33  <PublicServer> <imus> 33 squares edge to farm
18:11:37  <PublicServer> <imus> not the station
18:11:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes
18:11:57  <PublicServer> <imus> 2 + 6*5 = 32 squares so fits
18:12:17  <PublicServer> <mfb> the incoming lines need 1-2 tiles, too
18:12:31  <PublicServer> <mfb> it may fit
18:12:35  <PublicServer> <mfb> but then an 8th is impossible
18:12:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes but start at the end not 1 tile from it :d
18:12:45  <PublicServer> <imus> each ml (exept ML1) needs 2 for bridges + 2 for incoming lines + 1 for join
18:13:12  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> cant we stack the ML like PSG201
18:13:18  <PublicServer> <mfb> :D
18:13:18  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> mke it on tile less
18:13:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> hardly
18:13:24  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm
18:13:26  <PublicServer> <imus> probably not
18:13:34  <PublicServer> <mfb> needs some unstacking later
18:13:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> not with this short trains I think
18:13:42  <PublicServer> <mfb> but as the merge itself does not care about MLs...
18:13:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> it woulnt even be as effective
18:13:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> look at the density of trains
18:13:58  <PublicServer> <mfb> well, it is a double bridge concept
18:14:02  <PublicServer> <mfb> just on one tile
18:14:12  <PublicServer> <mfb> why do we include the MLs in the merger at all?
18:14:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes but the bridges are at least 5 tiles long
18:14:28  <PublicServer> <mfb> we can pass them somewhere
18:14:30  <PublicServer> <mfb> and join later
18:14:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> what about a shifting merge somehow
18:15:15  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> you suggest SML?
18:15:24  <PublicServer> <V453000> no
18:15:29  <PublicServer> <mfb> like that
18:15:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> I didnt say shifters
18:15:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> but similar method
18:16:07  <PublicServer> <mfb> the grid could be as small as ~3tiles/line maybe
18:16:07  <PublicServer> <imus> i'm off
18:16:09  <PublicServer> <imus> see ya
18:16:15  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> cya
18:16:18  <PublicServer> *** imus has left the game (leaving)
18:16:22  *** imus has quit IRC
18:16:24  <PublicServer> <mfb> cu
18:16:52  <PublicServer> *** Aberwyvern has left the game (leaving)
18:17:43  *** aberwyvern has quit IRC
18:19:24  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm
18:19:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> not quite sure how would that turn out
18:20:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> west of 01 inner
18:20:06  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i see
18:20:20  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> might work with the acceleration here
18:20:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> possibly with some penalties
18:20:24  <PublicServer> <V453000> exactly
18:20:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> should take no more than 22 tiles wie
18:20:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> wide
18:21:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> want to try it?
18:21:42  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> you can lengthen prio's by one
18:21:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> you can use your merger somewhere with more space I suppose :)
18:22:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> you can but not needed
18:22:02  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> my merger is crap
18:22:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> well it has some logic in it
18:22:42  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i dont like it its not balanced
18:22:56  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> nether will yours be :)
18:22:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> you mean the shiftstyle wtf
18:23:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> not balanced, just a different approach ... which mignt not be that wrong in the end
18:23:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> dunno lets try it
18:23:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> come help if you want
18:23:33  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> ke make a start and i follow the other way
18:23:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> KILLLLL
18:24:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> detonate!
18:24:45  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00000874:
18:24:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> buy land
18:25:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> k this land is officially ours
18:25:34  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> Mine
18:25:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> maybe this is a better way to buy lan ;)
18:26:09  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus has left the game (connection lost)
18:26:19  <Maraxus> !password
18:26:19  <PublicServer> Maraxus: waists
18:26:40  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus joined the game
18:27:01  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus has left the game (connection lost)
18:27:20  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> do you get lagg from jams?
18:28:02  <PublicServer> *** mfb has joined spectators
18:28:08  <PublicServer> <mfb> haha :D
18:28:20  <PublicServer> <mfb> afk
18:28:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> wont be so funny when it fails :P
18:28:44  <PublicServer> <mfb> food is ready
18:29:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> no not there
18:29:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> the end
18:29:52  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> ke
18:32:38  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> damn pc cant handle this
18:32:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> I also have some huge lag
18:33:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> stopped all trains
18:33:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> gridlock anyway
18:34:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> k moar
18:35:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> farm gonna die
18:35:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> I will kill it
18:35:16  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has left the game (leaving)
18:35:39  <PublicServer> *** Vinnie has joined spectators
18:35:39  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
18:35:55  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> complete kill and station to?
18:36:18  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
18:36:26  <V453000> !password
18:36:26  <PublicServer> V453000: waists
18:36:28  <V453000> !rcon server_pw
18:36:28  <PublicServer> V453000: Current value for 'server_password' is: 'barley'
18:36:40  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
18:36:43  <PublicServer> *** Vinnie joined the game
18:36:46  <PublicServer> *** Vinnie has joined company #1
18:36:46  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
18:37:10  <V453000> !password
18:37:10  <PublicServer> V453000: supper
18:37:30  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
18:37:30  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
18:37:32  <PublicServer> *** V453000 joined the game
18:38:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> for the progress
18:38:36  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> :)
18:38:38  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> like it
18:39:11  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> how many?
18:39:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> I think 7 + 3?
18:39:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> 6 + 3?
18:39:45  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00001552:
18:41:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm thats LONG :D
18:41:24  <PublicServer> <V453000> should do it
18:41:41  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> lets make a bet.
18:41:49  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i guess about 5 errors in signals now
18:42:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> you know what?
18:42:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> just make it smaller already
18:43:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> and sooner
18:43:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> we can always clone more
18:43:48  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> even sooner
18:46:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> lets see how hard does it break
18:47:43  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> did you send the trains to depot or will they be lost on the network?
18:47:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> I just stopped them all
18:48:02  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> from the station you removed
18:48:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> OH
18:48:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> shit :D
18:48:22  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> wait
18:48:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> well those are lost :D
18:48:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> but we should be able to find which trians are those form autosaves
18:48:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> no
18:48:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> livestock is on SL 01
18:48:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> see the exit
18:50:20  *** imus has joined #openttdcoop
18:50:28  <imus> hi again
18:50:32  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> hey
18:50:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> lol
18:50:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> last rebuild was 100 years ago
18:51:01  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> nice
18:51:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> :P
18:51:47  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> hmm maybe change prio on the end
18:51:49  <imus> !password
18:51:49  <PublicServer> imus: secede
18:52:05  <PublicServer> *** imus joined the game
18:52:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> need penalties
18:52:15  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i am your biatch now :(
18:52:18  <PublicServer> <imus> last years income -4M  *o*
18:53:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> hmm
18:53:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> earlier penalties would be helpful
18:53:50  <PublicServer> <imus> second line does not switch to first
18:53:53  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> no its the next BBH that jams
18:53:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> not only
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18:54:46  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0000134D:
18:54:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> come do !this pattern
18:54:58  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> fuck
18:55:02  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> why tell me that now
18:56:22  <PublicServer> <imus> now they like to switch to well
18:56:31  <PublicServer> <V453000>  not a coincidnece
18:57:20  <mfb-> !password
18:57:20  <PublicServer> mfb-: secede
18:57:30  <PublicServer> *** mfb joined the game
18:57:45  <PublicServer> <mfb> 100 years difference, nice
18:58:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> only 25 hours
18:58:56  <Maraxus> !password
18:58:56  <PublicServer> Maraxus: secede
18:59:10  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus joined the game
18:59:43  <PublicServer> <mfb> I try to unjam factory goods pickup a bit
19:01:11  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> this will be easy to expand
19:01:21  <PublicServer> <mfb> interesting
19:01:31  <PublicServer> <mfb> some trains prefer not to shift
19:01:44  <PublicServer> <imus> not? :o
19:01:57  <PublicServer> <mfb> ?
19:01:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> some trains also missed penalties
19:03:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> well, this is the approach to SML as I first understood it basically and I got very hated by one of its  original authors :D
19:03:41  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> so it is SML
19:03:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is the same logic
19:05:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> but as some people would very straightly tell you, SML is supposed to keep trains in full speed
19:05:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> so this basically is "just" a shift styled merger
19:05:51  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yeah this is wrong
19:06:05  <PublicServer> <imus> prioon lines where they shift to is too short
19:06:15  <PublicServer> <imus> and they prefer to shift too hard
19:06:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> define too hard
19:06:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> they either shift or not
19:06:33  <PublicServer> <mfb> at the moment, it works fine
19:06:39  <PublicServer> <imus> as in, they always shift, even if there is no room at all
19:06:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> oh
19:06:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> wrong gaps
19:07:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> shifting gaps nee 1 less signal
19:07:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> didnt think of that
19:07:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> WIN
19:07:54  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> you rule
19:07:58  <PublicServer> <imus> why does everyone blow up trains
19:08:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> trains suck
19:08:45  <PublicServer> <imus> glad we got virtualy infinit drivers available :p
19:09:03  <PublicServer> <imus> lines 2 and 3 are jammed now
19:09:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> oh are they? :)
19:09:27  <PublicServer> <mfb> well, line1 has a single tunnel
19:09:47  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00000B51:
19:09:48  <PublicServer> <imus> line 1 is not the problem
19:09:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> but we might indeed want to use station penalties to increase prio length by 1
19:09:59  <PublicServer> <imus> the ml doesn't have prio
19:10:25  <PublicServer> <mfb> station or road penalty looks good
19:10:35  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> station is 1000 right?
19:10:42  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> road is 300
19:10:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> we even have stations grf
19:10:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> station is more
19:10:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> like 2k or more
19:11:03  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> no a reversed pbs is 1500
19:11:19  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> so a station cant be more i think
19:11:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> use the Aberffraw station
19:11:46  *** orudge has quit IRC
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19:12:18  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus has joined company #1
19:12:22  <PublicServer> <imus> one question: doesn't SML imply NOT trying to shift if there is no room?
19:12:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> it does
19:12:34  <PublicServer> <imus> then this is wrong
19:12:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> which also carries some weaknesses
19:12:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> did we say this is SML?
19:12:45  <PublicServer> <imus> =D
19:12:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> and say wrong when it fails
19:12:55  <PublicServer> <imus> no but this jams on upper ML's :p
19:13:26  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> non stop orders :)
19:14:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> all?
19:15:08  <PublicServer> <mfb> I think so
19:15:14  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> 1 row missing
19:15:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> meh lets use normal station
19:16:00  <PublicServer> <imus> who's adding shift?
19:16:06  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> me
19:16:08  <PublicServer> <imus> why?
19:16:14  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> its missing
19:16:14  <PublicServer> <mfb> more shifts
19:16:18  <PublicServer> <imus> it's only gonne block upper lines more
19:16:24  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> so
19:16:34  <PublicServer> <imus> that is making it less efficient
19:16:44  <PublicServer> <mfb> no
19:16:48  <PublicServer> <imus> it is
19:16:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> OH AWESOME
19:17:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> some trains dont have nonstop
19:17:08  <PublicServer> <mfb> ;)
19:17:10  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> all oil
19:18:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> BBH 02 spoke merge fails becaues of the shit :D
19:18:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> shift :D
19:18:57  <PublicServer> <mfb> found wood
19:19:20  <PublicServer> <mfb> very true :/
19:19:31  <PublicServer> <mfb> and because of the strange design
19:19:40  <PublicServer> <mfb> trains from line 4 join line 5
19:19:56  <PublicServer> <mfb> and then line5 (+trains of 4) get an entry signal to join line 4(+trains from 3)
19:19:58  <PublicServer> <mfb> wtf?
19:20:06  *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC
19:20:41  <PublicServer> <imus> all prio's on shift lines are too short
19:20:59  *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop
19:20:59  *** Webster sets mode: +o KenjiE20
19:21:10  <PublicServer> <mfb> too short to do what
19:21:28  <PublicServer> <imus> to not block the first 2 - 3 ML while lines 6 and 7 are barely used
19:21:34  <PublicServer> <imus> if 7 is used at all
19:21:36  <PublicServer> <mfb> are they blocked?
19:21:45  <PublicServer> <imus> yup
19:21:59  <PublicServer> <mfb> ok, one at the moment
19:21:59  <PublicServer> <imus> well, not completely but trains aren't actually moving a lot
19:22:01  <PublicServer> <mfb> no
19:22:07  <PublicServer> <mfb> we can combine combo+exit signals
19:22:14  <PublicServer> <mfb> do not remove them
19:22:18  <PublicServer> <imus> does that work over station?
19:22:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> true
19:22:22  <PublicServer> <mfb> otherwise we get a bad signal gap
19:22:26  <PublicServer> <mfb> yes
19:22:42  <PublicServer> <mfb> ok, I take the merging lines
19:23:04  <PublicServer> <imus> change all the signals! <insert failblog image here>
19:23:26  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> what did i miss?
19:23:50  <PublicServer> <mfb> merging lines done
19:24:13  <PublicServer> <imus> and i still think we got too many shifts here
19:24:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> why so
19:24:36  <PublicServer> <imus> this doesn't balance it so well
19:24:46  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00000963:
19:24:48  <PublicServer> <imus> it only forces ML 1 - 3 to be full at all times
19:25:07  <PublicServer> <imus> while ML 7 is not used at all
19:25:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> do you understand what shifting means?
19:25:20  <PublicServer> <imus> yes, and we got too many of them
19:25:34  <PublicServer> <imus> a lot of trains are waiting to go to ML 1 while it is already full
19:25:35  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> we got a new CB here
19:25:46  <PublicServer> <mfb> all done
19:26:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> OH yES
19:26:11  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yeah but i found some more
19:26:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> prio on no choice line
19:26:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> very nice
19:26:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> at the spoke merger
19:26:41  <PublicServer> <mfb> it was even worse some minutes ago :D
19:26:57  <PublicServer> <imus> that was cause the outer lines weren't full when it was built
19:26:59  <PublicServer> <imus> probably
19:27:01  <PublicServer> <mfb> prio on a line without choice, and trains merged into that line
19:27:13  <PublicServer> <mfb> well, prio against it
19:27:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> no that was because someone messed up big time :
19:27:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> even this is probably better
19:28:29  <PublicServer> <imus> how long do you think !this train is gonne wait there?
19:28:31  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> prio on the inner ML is not always the same length
19:28:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> imus: probably forever
19:29:08  <PublicServer> <imus> isn't that a bad thing?
19:29:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> well what we can try is some PBS magic like on coal drop exit
19:29:51  <PublicServer> <imus> why not only let them try to shift if the prio is empty?
19:29:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> but ultimately it does not mateter too much
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19:30:23  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> V that would make it a full SML
19:30:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> because you cant do that that to achieve maximum line throughput?
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19:31:15  <PublicServer> <imus> use presignals like !this?
19:31:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> wut?
19:31:27  <PublicServer> *** mfb has joined spectators
19:31:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> what is the difference
19:31:35  <PublicServer> <imus> not using pbs?
19:31:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> didnt you have a problem with the presignals like 3 minutes ago?
19:32:14  <PublicServer> <imus> i had a problem with prio being too short
19:32:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes basically
19:32:20  <PublicServer> <imus> and trains trying to shift towards a full ML
19:32:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes
19:32:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> which is what the presignals do
19:32:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> and now you suggest them?
19:33:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> prio length is fine but now trains might not go to the choice that often
19:33:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> if at all
19:33:34  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> V are you changing?
19:33:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes
19:33:43  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> it wont help
19:33:56  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> once a train chooses the track will be blocked again
19:34:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> possibly
19:34:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> but if it sees the green once, there is at least a probability that it will occur again
19:34:42  <PublicServer> <imus> does 2way eol work?
19:34:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> it does
19:34:54  <PublicServer> <imus> like !this
19:35:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> no, think again
19:35:18  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> make it a combo so it does something
19:35:30  <PublicServer> <imus> ?
19:35:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> it does totally the same as the previous presignal variation
19:36:06  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> this might be better
19:36:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> damn
19:37:02  <PublicServer> <imus> again? :p
19:37:12  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> got to love PBS
19:37:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> that wasnt pbs, just lag
19:38:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> how dumb can they get
19:38:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> how
19:38:44  <PublicServer> <imus> someone removing a signal
19:38:51  <PublicServer> <imus> while train just passed the light :p
19:39:46  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00000B6B:
19:40:51  <PublicServer> <mfb> wtf
19:40:57  <PublicServer> <mfb> the pbs signals look wrong
19:41:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> look or are
19:41:33  <PublicServer> <mfb> it does not matter if they are green at the time the train can choose to shift
19:41:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> it does
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19:41:52  <PublicServer> <mfb> unless it is just jam prevention
19:41:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> partially is
19:42:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> these trains woul really be there forever
19:42:11  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm
19:42:18  <Dilandau> !password
19:42:18  <PublicServer> Dilandau: pulpit
19:42:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> like this they have a solid chance
19:42:34  <PublicServer> <mfb> look at ML3
19:42:40  <PublicServer> <mfb> wrong signal there
19:42:46  <PublicServer> <mfb> yes, that
19:43:04  <PublicServer> *** Dilandau joined the game
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19:43:44  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> oO
19:43:52  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> what a signal mess
19:44:08  <PublicServer> <imus> ?
19:44:18  <PublicServer> <imus> it's not a mess, it's perfectly structured
19:44:46  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> did you search for errors and change stuff all the time?
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19:45:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> I have to admit that the implicit orders are useful here
19:45:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> to eliminate stupid trains
19:46:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> or rather ... trains from careless builders
19:46:10  <PublicServer> <imus> ?
19:46:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> some trains have wrong orders
19:46:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> without non-stop
19:46:43  <PublicServer> <imus> ah you can find them now by clicking on the penalty station?
19:46:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes
19:46:54  <PublicServer> <imus> ^^
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19:47:00  <PublicServer> <imus> didn't even think of that
19:47:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> there were _many_ problems with the implicit orders in the past, now they are quite ok
19:47:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> or rather just one problem but damn annoying
19:47:41  <PublicServer> <imus> being?
19:47:41  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> remeber the 255 dummy orders :)
19:48:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> they easily fille the list until it had 255 orders imus
19:48:27  <PublicServer> <imus> that the maximum orders?
19:48:35  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> that is actually usefull
19:48:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes 255 is max
19:48:53  <PublicServer> <imus> hmm, now ML7 is jammed
19:49:07  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> when you have 255 orders and a train stops in a station while his order is a waypoint, it goes to the next order
19:49:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes it jams cause of the spoke merger
19:49:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> someone should redo that :p
19:49:57  <PublicServer> <imus> what exactly is a "spoke merger"
19:50:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> a merger
19:50:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> on a spoke
19:50:35  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> search for spoke on google translate
19:50:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> @@(dict spoke)
19:50:54  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> and see the 2 rings as a bicycle wheel
19:50:54  <Webster> PublicServer: wn: spoke See {speak}; wn: spoke n 1: support consisting of a radial member of a wheel joining the hub to the rim [syn: {radius}] 2: one of the crosspieces that form the steps of a ladder [syn: {rundle}, {rung}]; wn: speak v 1: express in speech; "She talks a lot of nonsense"; "This depressed patient does not verbalize" [syn: {talk}, {utter}, {mouth}, {verbalize}, {verbalise}] 2: (1 more message)
19:51:59  <V453000> anyway, I will be going
19:51:59  <V453000> cyas
19:52:07  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> cya
19:52:07  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> bye
19:52:11  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has left the game (leaving)
19:52:15  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> cu
19:52:25  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> what to break now
19:52:55  <PublicServer> <imus> the merge 6>4
19:53:00  <PublicServer> <imus> with !needs improvement
19:53:03  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> 7 now
19:53:13  <PublicServer> <imus> ok, 7 -> 4
19:53:20  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> but how to do it
19:53:28  <PublicServer> <imus> is 4 enough?
19:53:46  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yes
19:54:47  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00007124:
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19:57:49  <PublicServer> <imus> hooray for circular jam =D
20:05:21  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> better
20:05:59  <PublicServer> <imus> so now it's 4 -> 2 and 3 -> 2 right?
20:06:13  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yeah its ready fo an 8th
20:08:08  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> we need to reverse the prio on the last shift
20:08:33  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> yes
20:08:39  <PublicServer> <imus> or just remove prio
20:08:59  <PublicServer> <imus> wonder which is better
20:09:01  <PublicServer> *** mfb has joined spectators
20:09:25  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> ptobably neither
20:09:49  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00001566:
20:09:56  <PublicServer> <imus> added signs so nobody "fixes" it
20:10:37  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> well now two ways are a fail
20:10:44  <PublicServer> <imus> ?
20:10:51  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> see the last join
20:10:58  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> it jams to hell
20:11:36  <PublicServer> <imus> well, it'll always cause a jam somewhere
20:11:43  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> gn
20:11:50  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> dude trains should wait forever
20:11:58  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> that is a better solution then this
20:12:00  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> gn
20:12:02  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus has left the game (leaving)
20:12:11  *** Maraxus has quit IRC
20:12:31  <PublicServer> <imus> problem is that once a ML is jammed, trains on that ML can't shift either
20:12:45  <PublicServer> <imus> reverse prio just jams other ML
20:13:36  *** Tray has joined #openttdcoop
20:13:45  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> this is a wave
20:14:25  *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC
20:14:27  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> please dont remove signals
20:14:38  <PublicServer> <mfb> jam at BBH01
20:14:44  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i know
20:14:47  <PublicServer> <mfb> ok
20:15:11  <PublicServer> <mfb> maybe the last line needs more penalty
20:15:25  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> no the two-ways are bad
20:15:27  <PublicServer> <imus> ?
20:15:32  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> they jam the inner line
20:15:34  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm
20:15:40  <PublicServer> <mfb> I remember that I said that before ;)
20:15:48  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> we all said that
20:15:54  <PublicServer> <imus> without the two ways, the outer lines are jammed
20:16:00  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i dont know why it was changed
20:16:15  <PublicServer> <imus> cause trains would wait !there forever
20:16:23  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> oke **** it back to pre-signals
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20:16:39  *** Webster sets mode: +o KenjiE20
20:17:09  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> or what if we do 50/50
20:17:22  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> two-way and the pre-signal
20:17:24  <Tray> !password
20:17:24  <PublicServer> Tray: douses
20:17:45  <PublicServer> *** Tray joined the game
20:18:47  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> more shifters wont help imus
20:18:54  <PublicServer> <imus> i'm not building
20:19:30  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> it's me, i only for more compress
20:19:52  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> on outer line
20:22:09  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> oke now its back to normal
20:22:19  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> all
20:22:29  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> all pre-signal or two-way
20:22:29  <PublicServer> <imus> jam on inner line
20:23:19  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> choose jam on inner line or trains waiting forever?
20:23:49  <PublicServer> <imus> depends
20:23:55  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> ffs
20:23:55  <PublicServer> *** TWerkhoven has left the game (general error)
20:23:59  <PublicServer> <imus> if it's a complete circular jam they wait forever as well
20:24:14  <PublicServer> *** TWerkhoven joined the game
20:24:29  <PublicServer> *** Tray has left the game (leaving)
20:24:43  *** Tray has quit IRC
20:24:47  <V453000> LOL 75% people on social networks play at least 2 social games like farmville etc
20:24:48  <PublicServer> <imus> presignal or pbs doesn't matter
20:24:49  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00001363:
20:24:52  <PublicServer> <imus> jam is always blocking ^^
20:25:04  <TWerkhoven> that probably counts ppl like me
20:25:17  <TWerkhoven> i have farmville only so other ppl have an extra neighbour
20:27:46  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> only joining track gets Pre-signals rest stays two-way
20:28:09  <PublicServer> <imus> k
20:28:56  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> convert all pbs on pre-sign ?
20:29:07  <PublicServer> <imus> no
20:29:51  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> nice very mutch less jam
20:29:54  <PublicServer> <imus> :)
20:31:17  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> or no jam
20:31:25  <PublicServer> <imus> nice
20:33:15  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> station penalty is not high enough
20:33:18  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> 800 atm
20:33:24  <PublicServer> <imus> 't isn't?
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20:36:05  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> this design can be so mutch shorter
20:36:12  <PublicServer> <imus> ?
20:36:18  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> less shifts
20:36:46  <PublicServer> <imus> no
20:37:26  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> why not?
20:37:52  <PublicServer> <imus> which one would you erase?
20:38:11  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> sign last shift
20:38:12  <hylje> !password
20:38:12  <PublicServer> hylje: revere
20:38:22  <PublicServer> *** hylje joined the game
20:38:30  <PublicServer> <mfb> shitf :D
20:38:33  <PublicServer> <imus> it's not used a lot
20:38:47  <PublicServer> <hylje> durnk
20:38:49  <PublicServer> <imus> but if the other ML are at full capacity those are buffers
20:39:28  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i am neevr durnk
20:39:42  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> but i run out of beer
20:39:44  <PublicServer> <imus> sounds like you are
20:39:50  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00001461:
20:40:30  <PublicServer> <hylje> lies
20:41:27  <PublicServer> <imus> if any shift could be removed it's !this
20:41:33  <PublicServer> <imus> (and the one folowing
20:41:51  <PublicServer> <mfb> that does not harm at all
20:41:58  <PublicServer> *** mfb has joined company #1
20:42:00  <PublicServer> <imus> ah no, I see what you mean, sorry
20:42:12  <PublicServer> <imus> the botom row of shifts could be removed
20:42:47  <PublicServer> <imus> unless if we add more trains
20:42:57  <PublicServer> <mfb> then it may be useful
20:43:09  <PublicServer> <imus> but i'm off to bed now
20:43:11  <PublicServer> <imus> cya
20:43:15  <PublicServer> <mfb> cu
20:43:18  <PublicServer> *** imus has left the game (leaving)
20:43:23  *** imus has quit IRC
20:43:28  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> bye
20:46:33  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> more trains?
20:46:43  <PublicServer> <hylje> hahahaha
20:46:43  <PublicServer> <mfb> why not :)
20:46:47  <PublicServer> <hylje> cool bbh1 bro
20:47:10  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> not my design
20:47:20  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> nearly one of the minions
20:47:22  <PublicServer> *** mfb has joined spectators
20:47:29  *** LoPo has joined #openttdcoop
20:47:34  <LoPo> hi guys :)
20:47:38  <LoPo> !password
20:47:38  <PublicServer> LoPo: revere
20:47:50  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> hey
20:47:57  <PublicServer> *** LoPo joined the game
20:48:12  <PublicServer> <LoPo> lol :P
20:48:38  <PublicServer> <LoPo> nice (big) SML merger
20:49:04  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> not SML but dont ask why
20:49:11  <PublicServer> <LoPo> oky :)
20:49:42  <PublicServer> <hylje> it's called "a mess"
20:50:01  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> make another one
20:50:04  <PublicServer> <hylje> no
20:50:07  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> there easy to expand
20:50:13  <PublicServer> <LoPo> anywhere i can help?
20:50:31  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> max trains should go up soon
20:51:23  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> atleast i thought mfb would raise the limit
20:51:30  <PublicServer> <hylje> ha ha
20:51:37  <V453000> !rcon set max_trains 1777
20:51:39  <V453000> there you go
20:51:59  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> TY
20:52:01  <PublicServer> <LoPo> 1777 now :)
20:52:07  <PublicServer> <hylje> a hundred trains extra
20:52:10  <PublicServer> <hylje> go wild
20:52:39  <V453000> duh! hundred and ELEVEN :P
20:52:56  <PublicServer> <hylje> one hundred and nine, 1668->1777
20:53:38  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> waves are so annoying
20:54:50  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0000BAE2:
20:54:50  <V453000> oh, someone must have raised it from 666 then :(
20:55:20  <PublicServer> <hylje> so
20:55:34  <PublicServer> <hylje> extra rail from bbh3 to bbh4
20:55:37  <PublicServer> <hylje> inner
20:55:53  <V453000> !rcon set net_frame_freq
20:55:53  <PublicServer> V453000: CmdLevelLand            hylje  date:2304-08-14  tile:0000BCC5  p1:0000BCC5 p2:00000002 text: price:3500
20:55:53  <PublicServer> V453000: 'net_frame_freq' is an unknown setting.
20:55:55  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> no 4th is broken near BBH04
20:55:56  <V453000> hm
20:56:02  <V453000> !rcon list frame
20:56:02  <PublicServer> V453000: ERROR: command not found
20:56:07  <V453000> hfmasfsdf
20:56:10  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> someone disconnected it
20:56:28  <PublicServer> <hylje> ah it kind of deadlocked around slh8
20:57:02  <PublicServer> <LoPo> ye im also looking at it
20:57:12  <PublicServer> <LoPo> ill try to fix some of those w8ing bays
21:04:58  <PublicServer> *** mfb has left the game (leaving)
21:06:12  <PublicServer> <Vinnie> i am leaving cya tommorow
21:06:14  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> cya
21:06:20  <PublicServer> <LoPo> bb
21:06:24  <PublicServer> *** Vinnie has left the game (leaving)
21:06:34  <PublicServer> <LoPo> who is builing the 5th at SLH 02?
21:06:43  *** Vinnie_nl has quit IRC
21:06:46  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> not me
21:06:49  <PublicServer> <hylje> me
21:08:55  *** Godde has joined #openttdcoop
21:09:00  <Godde> !password
21:09:01  <PublicServer> Godde: olives
21:09:05  <Godde> !clients
21:09:17  <PublicServer> *** Godde joined the game
21:09:19  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> hi
21:09:21  <PublicServer> <Godde> heyo
21:09:27  <PublicServer> <LoPo> hi
21:09:50  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0000ABC0:
21:09:52  <PublicServer> <Godde> this game is amazing
21:11:34  <PublicServer> *** Godde has left the game (leaving)
21:11:43  <Godde> well
21:11:56  <Godde> i've spent all day playing the bf3 beta, so i should probably finish that report now :P
21:12:01  <Godde> cya guys
21:12:07  <V453000> :DDDD
21:12:13  *** Godde has quit IRC
21:12:17  <V453000> night work ftw
21:15:49  *** Firartix has quit IRC
21:24:50  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00001419:
21:26:32  *** DayDreamer1 has left #openttdcoop
21:42:54  <PublicServer> *** hylje has left the game (leaving)
21:44:51  <PublicServer> <LoPo> do road crossings give some penalty?
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21:45:10  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> i do not kown
21:45:17  <mfb-> they do
21:45:24  <PublicServer> <LoPo> ah
21:45:39  <PublicServer> <LoPo> there was a road crossing at Coal drop
21:45:56  <mfb-> to get a penalty, yes
21:46:05  <PublicServer> <LoPo> k :)
21:46:07  <PublicServer> <LoPo> cool
21:48:41  <PublicServer> <LoPo> road_crossing_penalty = 300
21:48:42  <V453000> hi :)
21:48:43  <PublicServer> <LoPo> :)
21:48:44  <V453000> !password
21:48:44  <PublicServer> V453000: rasher
21:48:54  <PublicServer> <LoPo> there it is
21:49:13  <PublicServer> *** V453000 joined the game
21:49:52  <PublicServer> <LoPo> hello V :)
21:50:11  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> wb
21:50:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> how does it work?
21:50:45  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> better with pre-sign :)
21:52:58  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> 1777 trains already :p
21:53:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> good good :)รบ
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21:54:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> what do you say about the junctionary? :) any suggestions you would make to what should go there?
21:54:25  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> for the wiki ? :)
21:54:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> the junctionary on the wiki
21:54:51  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 00001E99:
21:54:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is new
21:54:59  <PublicServer> <LoPo> yeah i like it :)
21:55:09  <PublicServer> <LoPo> much more things in it now also
21:55:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> currently in the stage of filling, so we need to find as much stuff from ol games aspossible
21:55:57  <PublicServer> <LoPo> but; is it only a collection of things?
21:56:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> what do you mean
21:56:34  <PublicServer> <LoPo> or is it also the meaning to explain its content a bit?
21:56:44  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> PZG13 not in Logic Junc?
21:57:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> explain a bit, but mainly the usage, not how it is built etc
21:57:12  <PublicServer> <LoPo> k
21:57:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> but of course its purpose is to have a place where everything is
21:58:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> so whenever someone builds something unusual which has some point, it should be added
21:58:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> but not only future things!
21:58:16  <PublicServer> <LoPo> ofc :)
21:58:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> the game archive is very valuable, though old games tend to have not much content for it
21:59:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> so if you ever skim through games and when you see something interesting, please check and discuss whether it should be added
21:59:33  <PublicServer> <LoPo> well, every game has its own values :)
21:59:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> I am adding quite a lot of things, but I nor remembe everything, nor I detect everything when looking through games
21:59:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> so more eyes see more
21:59:58  <PublicServer> <LoPo> k
22:00:17  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> the Mark's clock is on the Wiki N ;o
22:00:22  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> ?
22:00:38  <PublicServer> <LoPo> yes it is, and also in the new juctionary
22:00:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> ^
22:01:04  <PublicServer> <LoPo> i realy liked the "train counter" :)
22:01:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> the one that just does nothing?
22:01:33  <PublicServer> <LoPo> i also came up with that design, but as seems it was already build
22:01:43  <PublicServer> <LoPo> well, it counts
22:01:49  <PublicServer> <LoPo> nothing more and less :P
22:01:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes but it does nothing for the network
22:01:58  <PublicServer> <LoPo> aha
22:02:24  <PublicServer> <V453000> IMO every logic mechanism has to 1. has a reason why to build it, 2. the reason has to be impossible to do witout logic
22:02:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> I dont say nobody should ever build a train counter, LED output, or what ever, but from my point of view it is just useless and I wnt build it :)
22:03:00  <PublicServer> <LoPo> true, if it has no use for the network, then why bother building it :P
22:03:48  <PublicServer> <LoPo> although train counters could come handy in SRNW instead of flip flops maybe
22:03:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> how come?
22:04:21  <PublicServer> <LoPo> well i was thinging about some "new" type of SRNW
22:04:35  <PublicServer> <LoPo> with mixed trains on 1 rail
22:04:46  <PublicServer> <LoPo> but the idea is to split them in the right order
22:04:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> I see
22:04:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is quite ... interesting
22:05:06  <PublicServer> <LoPo> so the "information" of trains is stored in the order the trains are released
22:05:09  <PublicServer> <LoPo> ^^
22:05:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> I see
22:05:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> nice iea
22:05:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> idea
22:05:21  <PublicServer> <LoPo> nice idea ha :P
22:05:27  <PublicServer> <LoPo> first
22:05:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> but probably not too effective I think
22:05:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> but well, you really wouldnt need anything else than a flipflop
22:06:00  <PublicServer> <LoPo> i thought of a combined compressor
22:06:10  <V453000> @ABR02
22:06:11  <Webster> Advanced Building Revue 02: Splits at #openttdcoop -
22:06:18  <V453000> yes, which would sort them and then release the mall
22:06:20  <V453000> them all
22:06:40  <PublicServer> <LoPo> ye i build 1 in PSG 214
22:06:46  <V453000> this would work too
22:06:58  <PublicServer> <LoPo> but do you remember the PSG with no orders?
22:07:03  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
22:07:04  <V453000> of course I do
22:07:06  <PublicServer> <LoPo> it was with 1 cargo only
22:07:09  <PublicServer> <LoPo> wood
22:07:13  <V453000> yes 180
22:07:17  <PublicServer> <LoPo> ye
22:07:24  <PublicServer> <LoPo> what about such a game
22:07:30  <PublicServer> <LoPo> with 3 cargos :P
22:07:34  *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC
22:07:38  <V453000> why. :)
22:07:50  <PublicServer> <LoPo> because we can ^^
22:07:52  <V453000> yes, it is interesting, but I was always quite skeptical towars multi-cargo SRNWs
22:07:59  <V453000> you fill the network sooner or later anyway
22:08:02  <PublicServer> <LoPo> i know
22:08:06  <V453000> but yes, it can get a bit interesting
22:08:12  <PublicServer> <LoPo> because there is still no real robust system fir that
22:08:43  <PublicServer> <LoPo> but with the idea it might become a nice challange
22:08:50  <V453000> well, another thing would be that you would be forced to inject equal amounts of trains for all cargo types
22:09:02  <V453000> which would get to be a huge issue I think
22:09:16  <PublicServer> <LoPo> well
22:09:18  <V453000> you woul always have all but one cargo types overflowing probably
22:09:36  <V453000> if working properly and all stations serviced
22:09:45  <V453000> which ... possibly cant be too expected but still
22:09:49  <PublicServer> <LoPo> is it not true that if i proces 1t ore i get 1t steel?
22:09:55  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 000027B2:
22:09:56  <V453000> no you ont
22:10:03  <PublicServer> <LoPo> oky
22:10:05  <V453000> there is a formula on that somerwhere
22:10:11  <V453000> but see refit networks
22:10:28  <V453000> trains never load 100% in average
22:10:28  <PublicServer> <LoPo> then we have to regulate that
22:10:37  <V453000> pretty much
22:10:42  <PublicServer> <LoPo> its no big deal if we have w8ing trains
22:10:43  <V453000> but why would you make a SRNW on steel mill
22:10:55  <PublicServer> <LoPo> just an example
22:11:10  <PublicServer> <LoPo> and, why not? :P
22:11:12  <V453000> yes but an example of primary->secondary is very weird
22:11:14  <PublicServer> <LoPo> i like steel :)
22:11:27  <V453000> sure, but making a SRNW kinda makes for having _many_ steel mills
22:11:29  *** valhallasw has quit IRC
22:11:30  <PublicServer> <LoPo> why is it weird?
22:11:43  <V453000> and each of the steel mills should have high production, which makes for a huge iron ore delivery network
22:11:44  <PublicServer> <LoPo> is that so?
22:11:51  <V453000> well what is SRNW for
22:11:53  <PublicServer> <LoPo> k k k
22:12:03  <V453000> to service _any_ amount of primaries with 1 group of trains
22:12:22  <PublicServer> <LoPo> but lately i was woring on SRNW trasfer stations
22:12:28  <V453000> but yes, I see your idea, it isnt bad systematically, but I think it is not usable
22:13:00  <V453000> hehe, transfer stations are nice, but the solution that I made in 200 was just too much logic for not enough throughput
22:13:04  <PublicServer> <LoPo> and i think its possible to make a SRS from ore ->steel
22:13:07  <V453000> thus being "too safe" in the end
22:13:35  <V453000> I woul not be so sure, you woul need to make random drops for iron ore
22:13:50  <V453000> and then just pick the steel up again
22:13:54  <PublicServer> <LoPo> transfer stations can be made smaller just by compling a compressor to a station
22:14:14  <PublicServer> <LoPo> for SRS
22:14:16  <V453000> smaller? compressor? do you know how large that is? :)
22:14:31  <PublicServer> <Dilandau> good night ^^
22:14:37  <PublicServer> *** Dilandau has joined spectators
22:14:43  <PublicServer> *** Dilandau has left the game (leaving)
22:14:45  <PublicServer> <LoPo> look at the entrances of a regulair station
22:14:50  <V453000> and speaking of 200 transfer, the problem was not incoming line density but station throughput itself
22:15:01  <PublicServer> <LoPo> replace that by a compressor and done
22:15:06  *** Dilandau has quit IRC
22:15:07  <PublicServer> <LoPo> its not that big :P
22:15:17  <PublicServer> <LoPo> ye thats true
22:15:35  <PublicServer> <LoPo> SRS are not realy the "fast" stations
22:15:37  <V453000> but why would you build a compressor at a transfer station
22:15:47  <V453000> what is SRS supposed to mean btw
22:16:03  <V453000> self reg stations?
22:16:07  <PublicServer> <LoPo> well, than you know X amount of ore will be droped prior to produce Y amount of steel
22:16:11  <PublicServer> <LoPo> ye
22:16:17  <PublicServer> <LoPo> sorry :P
22:16:36  <V453000> yes but the X and Y are related to each other
22:16:43  <LoPo> of
22:16:45  <V453000> not just by amount but also by place
22:16:45  <LoPo> c
22:16:48  <LoPo> ofcourse
22:16:49  <V453000> which is the proble
22:16:50  <V453000> m
22:16:55  <LoPo> place?
22:16:57  <V453000> because why woul you do that
22:17:02  <V453000> place as the exact steel mill
22:17:51  <V453000> I dont know how you mean this, have -random land with ore mines-, collect ore through SRNW, !somhow! drop it to a random steel mill, collect steel from random steel mills, deliver to factory
22:18:36  <LoPo> ye basicly that :P
22:18:48  <V453000> and you woul have 2 kinds of trains on the same network for that
22:19:04  <LoPo> yep
22:19:20  <V453000> I honestly dont see why woul you make multiple steel mills
22:19:20  <LoPo> maybe even three, if you also want to transport goods
22:19:29  <V453000> hm
22:19:40  <V453000> well I see the point of a truly "Global" game which might be nice
22:19:43  <LoPo> well i dont think you need many steel mills
22:19:51  <LoPo> but 1 or 2
22:19:54  <V453000> where every ore mine, steel mills,factories and towns are serviced
22:20:04  <V453000> then why would you make SRNW trains for 1 or 2 steel mills
22:20:24  <V453000> these trains could have normal orders
22:20:35  <LoPo> becuase we want to have a game without orders :P
22:20:40  <LoPo> that was the main idea
22:20:54  <LoPo> but then with more than 1 cargo type
22:21:03  <V453000> well, the SRNWs without orders are not "just cause" but because the global SRNW design required it
22:21:40  <V453000> but yes, as a game which would globally service all 4 things and all of them on the whole map, it might be interesting
22:21:41  <LoPo> so you gave the trains no orders because the network was asking for it?
22:21:42  <LoPo> or
22:21:48  <V453000> yes of course
22:21:54  <V453000> look at 180
22:22:05  <V453000> you couldnt place a waypoint or an order anywhere
22:22:13  <V453000> same thing goes for 199
22:22:14  <LoPo> you build a network which can have multiple cargos trains without orders? :P
22:22:31  <LoPo> its almost a paradox :P
22:22:37  <V453000> no it isnt by far
22:22:50  <LoPo> was just joking there :)
22:22:56  <V453000> there were already ways how to split it, one of them splitting by train length
22:23:15  <LoPo> ye i have seen those
22:23:27  <V453000> hm, actually you might have a problem with your design
22:23:35  <V453000> when you have lets say 3 trains in a row going
22:23:39  <V453000> train A B and C
22:23:47  <V453000> approaching a split to B industry
22:23:58  <LoPo> myself, mad some preleminary design on a train splitter based on speed
22:24:05  <LoPo> k k  ;)
22:24:17  <V453000> but what happens if the industry waiting bay is full
22:24:31  <V453000> hm I guess it woul be possible to make it as a conition
22:24:35  <LoPo> overflow?
22:24:55  <V453000> yes, sure, but there is a problem with the next split
22:25:00  <LoPo> no
22:25:05  <LoPo> ow split?
22:25:14  <V453000> you dont know how is the formation going to look
22:25:21  <LoPo> so we have 3 trains
22:25:21  <V453000> the tran _can_ split away but doesnt have to
22:25:26  <V453000> yes
22:25:26  <LoPo> and 1 is leaving?
22:25:33  <LoPo> no no
22:25:33  <V453000> can be leaving, doesnt have to be
22:25:36  <LoPo> he MUST leave
22:25:45  <LoPo> otherwise the information is corrupt :P
22:25:52  <V453000> then it is wrong by design
22:25:59  <LoPo> and the next split will indeed ruin it
22:26:00  <V453000> because then you just split networks without a reason
22:26:13  <LoPo> why?
22:26:28  <LoPo> you split because that train needs to go there
22:26:30  <V453000> when you know you will need to force split them all, why merge them
22:26:33  <V453000> yes
22:26:39  <V453000> but why merge them on the same network to split them again
22:26:41  <LoPo> even if the station is fulll
22:26:47  <V453000> yes
22:26:55  <V453000> you split them under all circumstances
22:27:03  <V453000> why would you merge them into the others then
22:27:26  <LoPo> ah to
22:27:44  <LoPo> to make smaller ML instead of building 3 systems
22:28:01  <LoPo> now you have just 1 track'
22:28:11  <LoPo> instead of 3
22:28:18  <LoPo> if you have 3 cargo types
22:28:19  <V453000> you really think a LLL with all the compressor and counter logic woul be small than 3 lines with just an eol? :)
22:28:48  <V453000> omg my keyboard is either on its last march or I type like a pig
22:28:50  <LoPo> :P
22:29:07  <LoPo> i understand you so its oky :)
22:29:14  <LoPo> yeah i dont know :)
22:29:30  <LoPo> ofc i know compressors and other stuff is "big"
22:30:00  <V453000> I can give you a typical example of splitting ... many people build multiple speed networks. Then they realize they want to split trains with a waypoint. So they split with waypoints, split, split, split and suddenly the networks are completely split. Result is, split from the beginning and the whole idea of merging different speed trains is totally unviable.
22:30:11  <V453000> the SRNW with forced split is something very similar
22:30:14  <V453000> if not the same basically
22:30:27  <V453000> or worse as waypoints arent larger :P
22:30:48  <LoPo> ye i see what you mean
22:31:27  <V453000> but yes, the idea is definitely nice and quite original
22:31:36  <LoPo> but now i thing about it
22:31:43  <V453000> but the more we talk about it the more it seems to me that it is unusable, or at least now
22:32:29  <LoPo> also, hubs are less likely needed as they are replaced by mergers (compressors), and splitters
22:32:48  <V453000> what you could do would be for example shorter dummy trains which would be the trigger to the counter
22:32:58  <V453000> (if you wanted to make working not-forced splits)
22:33:12  <LoPo> but the design of such a network would be different as well
22:33:17  <V453000> yes, hubs in such logic games arent too important
22:33:45  <V453000> hm actually that might work what I just said, but that already requires some truly hard logic
22:33:52  <V453000> you see what I mean?
22:33:59  <LoPo> not realy :P
22:34:16  <LoPo> so use logic when split is not posible?
22:34:34  <V453000> you would have a compressor which woul make an array of trains like: TL5 ore train, TL1 dummy, TL5 steel trains, TL1 dummy, TL5 goods train, TL1 dummy
22:34:44  <LoPo> ye
22:34:52  <V453000> and then the logic would not trigger on the amount of trains passed but amount of TL1 trains passed
22:34:57  <V453000> and TL1 trains would never split
22:35:06  <V453000> so they would stay just as "brackets"
22:35:13  <LoPo> like a "pulse"
22:35:16  <V453000> basically
22:35:19  <LoPo> aha
22:35:33  <V453000> and the logic would realize that the trains did split or not
22:35:47  <V453000> that would probably work
22:36:02  <V453000> you would definitely need fast logic engine for quick gate reaction but it would be possible
22:36:32  <LoPo> but then you stack the trains in groups?
22:36:41  <LoPo> which is ofc also possible
22:36:47  <V453000> stack in groups?
22:37:07  <LoPo> ore with ore, etc..
22:37:20  <V453000> how do you mean, which groups
22:37:30  <LoPo> because you sad that the compressor is not w8ing for the "real" trains
22:37:41  <LoPo> but for the logic trains
22:37:44  <V453000> no, compressor has to have the exact formation
22:37:50  <LoPo> ah oky
22:37:53  <LoPo> nvm than
22:37:56  <LoPo> then*
22:37:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> come see in game
22:38:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> near SLH 01 inner
22:38:44  <PublicServer> <LoPo> im here
22:38:47  <V453000> !rcon set max_trains 4000
22:39:55  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 000028A9:
22:40:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> this would be the output of a compressor
22:40:21  <PublicServer> <LoPo> aha
22:40:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> see what I mean?
22:40:27  <PublicServer> <LoPo> but :P
22:40:34  <PublicServer> <LoPo> yeah i now see what you mean
22:41:26  <PublicServer> <LoPo> but what is the advantage of the logic trains then?
22:41:43  <PublicServer> <LoPo> k
22:41:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> that trains can split or dont have to
22:41:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> but it still works
22:41:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> because this is the initial formation
22:42:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> but what if this split splits the 2nd train
22:42:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> then you get this
22:42:21  <PublicServer> <LoPo> aha
22:42:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> and if you counted trains, you would get wrong trains in wrong places
22:42:27  <PublicServer> <LoPo> ah ye :P
22:42:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> if you count dummies, coal train still is after 2
22:42:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> which would be truly awesome to see
22:42:43  <PublicServer> <LoPo> but that means that the merg have gone wrong
22:42:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> no!
22:42:59  <PublicServer> <LoPo> lol im going to build this :P
22:43:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> the merge can go only 1 way, no questions aske
22:43:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> asked
22:43:16  <PublicServer> <LoPo> well
22:43:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> but the splits are random
22:43:25  <PublicServer> <LoPo> were is the 2nd train then??
22:43:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> so you dont know how your formation looks after a split
22:43:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> gone
22:43:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> after the split
22:44:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> exactly this way
22:44:08  <PublicServer> <LoPo> make a flip flop 1/2
22:44:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> why
22:44:20  <PublicServer> <LoPo> does the same
22:44:24  <PublicServer> <V453000> no
22:44:26  <PublicServer> <LoPo> split first
22:44:32  <PublicServer> <LoPo> 2nd and 3th go straight
22:44:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> why woul you force the flip
22:44:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> force the split
22:44:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> you cant force it
22:44:47  <PublicServer> <LoPo> oky
22:44:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> else you have separate lines
22:44:51  <PublicServer> <LoPo> i see
22:44:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> as I said before
22:45:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> they need to be conditional, thus unknown result
22:45:05  <PublicServer> <LoPo> you dont want to force them
22:45:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes, that is really pointless
22:45:22  <PublicServer> <LoPo> hmmm
22:45:24  <PublicServer> <LoPo> good point :)
22:45:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> but thing is
22:45:40  <PublicServer> <LoPo> forcing trains can also lead to jams more easy
22:45:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> if you make this in a ring along the whole network, our concept is done :P all that is missing is exact logic, but it is possible
22:46:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> forcing is not the way, just forget that :)
22:46:17  <LoPo> :P
22:46:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> if you force it, well, what is regulating then
22:46:31  <LoPo> well if you want to f**k a donley ;)
22:46:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> ;)
22:46:36  <LoPo> donkey*
22:46:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> :D
22:46:42  <LoPo> lol fail :P
22:46:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> k
22:46:49  <LoPo> but yeah you are right
22:47:13  <LoPo> but now the logic part
22:47:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> not too hard
22:47:24  <LoPo> no?
22:47:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> nope
22:47:31  <LoPo> oky :P
22:47:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> well of course harder than a normal flipflop but I think it is ok
22:48:17  <LoPo> because you need something which is only "triggerd" by the small ones
22:48:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> all you nee is a counter and a trigger
22:48:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes, no problem
22:48:37  <LoPo> ye but how? :P
22:48:46  <PublicServer> <LoPo> oky
22:49:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> some gate which requires both spots empty but 1 full
22:49:08  <PublicServer> <LoPo> ah ye
22:49:23  <PublicServer> <LoPo> TL is 1 ofc >_<
22:49:27  <PublicServer> <LoPo> i forgot
22:49:40  <PublicServer> <LoPo> should not be to hard indeed
22:49:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> default output = red, in this case output =  green, release counter train once
22:50:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> just a few gates anyone can clone
22:50:15  <PublicServer> <LoPo> aha
22:50:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> a counter train and done
22:50:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> plus making sure that counter train will work properly , but that might be possible to  do without any supportive logic
22:50:58  <PublicServer> <V453000> but yes, that is the concept complete
22:52:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> so we could probably think of some good environment for it and use it sometime :)
22:52:11  <PublicServer> <LoPo> no'one will ever notice :P
22:52:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> :)
22:52:28  <PublicServer> <LoPo> ye would be cool
22:52:30  <PublicServer> <V453000> we had a SRNW game quite recently, so you will probably need to wait ;)
22:52:37  <PublicServer> <LoPo> np
22:53:40  <PublicServer> <LoPo> hehe dont forget to put the max trains to 1777(?) :P
22:53:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> I know
22:53:53  <V453000> !rcon set max_trains 1777
22:54:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> might end up ugly :D
22:54:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> hmm
22:54:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> the shifter merger tends to send trains out in such weird waves
22:54:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> just lok
22:54:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> they are all in a line usually
22:54:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> fun :D
22:54:56  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 000026A2:
22:55:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> see the rows?
22:55:08  <PublicServer> <LoPo> ye
22:55:19  <PublicServer> <LoPo> Vinnie was also complaining about that
22:55:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> well it is nothing bad
22:55:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> trains are just in similar positions
22:55:33  <PublicServer> <LoPo> there are many train waves in this game
22:55:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> this cant be talked about as a wave imo
22:56:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> the average throughput is still kept
22:56:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> sometimes they just look suspiciously arranged
22:58:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> hmm I would say psg 220 or somewhere there would be the right spot
22:58:15  *** Progman has quit IRC
22:59:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> which is just a few weeks :)
22:59:10  <PublicServer> <LoPo> :)
22:59:17  *** mfb- has quit IRC
22:59:20  <PublicServer> <LoPo> ill stick around ;)
22:59:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> :P
22:59:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> ok  me too
23:00:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> lol
23:00:07  <PublicServer> <LoPo> hmmm?
23:00:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> when I zoom out and compare the size of the shift merger with other mergers, I tend to laugh :D
23:00:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> but well, unused space before :)
23:00:47  <PublicServer> <LoPo> ye track dencity is quite large indeed
23:00:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> but HEY! more rails, more TRAINZ :D
23:00:59  <PublicServer> <LoPo> density*
23:01:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> not just density
23:01:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> overall size
23:01:31  <PublicServer> <LoPo> :)
23:01:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> but well, it works, is quite simple to build, and is expandable
23:02:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> fits well
23:02:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> additionally it is a bit original
23:02:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> particularly by the coal drop style PBS 2way eol usage
23:03:05  <PublicServer> <LoPo> ye thats nice
23:04:31  <PublicServer> *** TWerkhoven has left the game (leaving)
23:07:44  <PublicServer> <LoPo> damn my nose :S
23:07:50  <PublicServer> <LoPo> got a cold...
23:08:04  <PublicServer> <LoPo> and its 24 degrees outside :(
23:08:11  <PublicServer> <LoPo> in holland :P
23:09:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> lol :)
23:09:56  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0000D5B2:
23:11:00  *** TWerkhoven has quit IRC
23:16:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> looks quite fine :)
23:17:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> I will be going to bed
23:17:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> good night
23:17:11  <PublicServer> <LoPo> bb :)
23:17:26  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has left the game (leaving)
23:17:26  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
23:17:36  <PublicServer> *** LoPo has left the game (leaving)
23:24:57  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0000C951:
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