Log for #openttdcoop on 13th August 2012:
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00:00:49  <Mazur> MM up and running.
00:01:01  <Mazur> @stage planning
00:01:01  *** Webster changes topic to "Welcome to #openttdcoop, the Cooperative OpenTTD | PSG242 (r24463) | STAGE: planning | | New players, use @quickstart and !help |"
00:01:06  <Mazur> @stage Planning
00:01:06  *** Webster changes topic to "Welcome to #openttdcoop, the Cooperative OpenTTD | PSG242 (r24463) | STAGE: Planning | | New players, use @quickstart and !help |"
00:01:32  <Mazur> Gonna let it run up a bit to allow for a plan to be build.
00:01:44  <Mazur> Moneywise.
00:03:40  <V453000> :)
00:10:26  <V453000> !password
00:10:26  <PublicServer> V453000: bobbin
00:10:39  <PublicServer> *** V453000 joined the game
00:11:08  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Didn't bother about max radius.
00:11:38  <PublicServer> <Mazur> It's 2 yeas in and we're at 2 kmillion, so who cares.
00:11:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> any money is fine
00:12:10  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Indeed.
00:12:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> this train set isnt extremely expensive so its fine
00:12:30  <PublicServer> <Mazur> It ain;t much if it ain't  Dutch.
00:13:07  <PublicServer> <Mazur> A Lok 1600 was my/our first electric loc at home.
00:13:45  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Märklin.
00:14:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm
00:14:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> purchase menu for HS-2 says 18k hp
00:14:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> has third of that
00:14:48  <hylje> bloody post-commission restrictions
00:15:05  <hylje> passengers nauseous bah humbug
00:16:04  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Still a lot of Hit-Points.
00:16:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm so basically there is only one usable engine
00:17:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> cant say I expected otherwise but ...
00:17:47  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Well, the map isn't exactly Dutch.  Most Dutch trains are not expected to rise more than 10m above sea level.
00:18:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> lol
00:18:44  <PublicServer> <Mazur> All international trains are French or German.
00:20:51  <hylje> at least they handle division by zero gracefully
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00:29:08  <Mazur> !auto
00:29:08  <PublicServer> *** Mazur has enabled autopause mode.
00:29:15  <Mazur> In case I forget.
00:31:03  <Mazur> Because I _will_ get distr Oooh, shiny!
00:32:01  <V453000> :)
00:33:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> make a plan? :p
00:34:22  <PublicServer> <Mazur> That usually requires habing an idea.
00:35:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> you once had a plan something like !that
00:35:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> might want to try something similar
00:36:23  <PublicServer> <Mazur> That was eight spokes, 4 inward and four others outward.
00:36:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> was like this I think
00:37:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> I think that kind of plan would be quite good in this game
00:39:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm
00:39:39  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Sometyhing like !this.
00:39:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> dont think 8 is necessary but ..
00:40:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> main key point is the separation of full and empty trains in here
00:40:26  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Yes.
00:40:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> goods can mix with empty trains, that is fien
00:40:43  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Anyway, this is a rough skjetch of what it was.
00:41:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> if there is a drop
00:41:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> then yes
00:41:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> but I think each of the spokes needs a drop
00:41:17  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Pfffff.
00:41:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> else you cant merge them nicely
00:41:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> these trains have a retarded amount of capacity, so when full they accelerate really bad
00:42:23  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Was liker that.
00:42:57  <PublicServer> <Mazur> But MSHs could be moved more to middle to give MSHs room.
00:43:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> could make secondary drops in corners
00:44:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> like
00:45:04  <PublicServer> <Mazur> In fact, if drops are in corners, the long spokes can be emties and almost not need ML.
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00:45:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> the ring is empty/goods
00:45:38  <PublicServer> <V453000> the straight spokes are full trains only
00:46:04  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Then you need to connedct to the right, and not the nearest spoke.
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00:46:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes
00:46:16  <PublicServer> <Mazur> right as in correct.
00:46:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> well you could have all drops accept all
00:46:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> works too
00:46:42  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Differeny gtom my idea.
00:46:48  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Ah, ok.
00:47:02  <PublicServer> <Mazur> That would work better.
00:48:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> ok cant do refit
00:50:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> would do it this way
00:51:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> also the MSH only needs one connection right now
00:51:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> which is fine I think
00:52:23  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Fine by me.
00:52:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> use it as a plan if you want :) the idea is yours anyway
00:53:19  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Well, since you know your alterations best, you could write it out and put my name over it.
00:53:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> lol
00:53:37  <PublicServer> <Mazur> :-)
00:54:11  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Ot both our names, or yours, I was never one for glory.
00:54:17  <PublicServer> <Mazur> :-)
00:54:24  <PublicServer> <V453000> as if I was
00:54:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> either way we need the MSHs to have both exits
00:54:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> one is for goods only however
00:54:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> might consider making one goods, one raw trains
00:55:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> because that would mean a nice split of full/empty trains again
00:55:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> so goods would not be like B,D but like B only
00:55:43  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Sounds goods.
00:56:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> which relates the that rule I just wrote
00:57:47  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Yes.  That was underlying my idea in the first place, see how full empty separationworks in a non-self-regulating game.  If you get better flow or empty tracks or trackparts.
00:59:13  <PublicServer> <Mazur> "merge full goods+goods trauns" you mean full raw+goods?
00:59:19  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Ah, ok.
00:59:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> this is better explanatory :)
01:02:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> that acceleration isnt good
01:03:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm
01:03:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> it sez
01:03:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> full power only under 25kV
01:03:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> what is that supposed to mean
01:04:43  <PublicServer> <Mazur> And HS-1?
01:05:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes exactly that one
01:05:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> either of them has 6k only
01:06:24  <PublicServer> <V453000> I think this train is the only option in the end
01:06:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> half speed, but 300 kmh with 6000 hp is useless
01:07:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> ok this is also usable
01:08:05  <PublicServer> <Mazur> I was thinking about that one.
01:08:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> I agree
01:08:18  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Which has better accel?  Same?
01:08:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> maybe a little worse than the 160kmh one
01:08:55  <PublicServer> <Mazur> This has better speed, though.
01:09:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> CL5
01:10:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> why in hell is wood covered wagon
01:10:39  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Because irt rains a lot here, and we don;t want our wood to warp.
01:10:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> lol
01:11:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> so it doesnt fall off when trains climb the mountains right
01:11:15  <PublicServer> <Mazur> And that, yes.
01:11:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> what
01:11:41  <PublicServer> <V453000> 25 capacity for oil, 40 for wood, 58 for coal?
01:11:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> this train set is downed.
01:12:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> all cargoes go everywhere, only option
01:13:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> colours are nice though
01:13:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> ok we could ignore the biggest wagons
01:14:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> we dont want ore
01:14:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> and coal is worthless
01:14:27  <PublicServer> <Mazur> I like coal.
01:14:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> remains grain where Silo wagons have a lot better loading times
01:14:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> coal doesnt fit here really
01:15:06  <PublicServer> <Mazur> I'm sure you have a better insight in those kind of details.
01:15:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> well this network is built on goods
01:15:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> coal wont do jack
01:15:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> coal is a great cargo because you can use less used parts of the network with it
01:15:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> without polluting other parts with goods
01:17:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> LOL
01:17:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> superhaeavy flatcar with 2 weeks loading time
01:17:24  <PublicServer> <V453000> has a lot less capacity than the container carrier
01:19:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> so TL5 x3?
01:19:54  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Sure.
01:20:57  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Been quite some time since we had a CL5 game, I think.
01:21:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> 230
01:21:21  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Unless I missed one.
01:21:39  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Sounds about right.
01:22:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> was the one with the 1042138 levels of tunnels hub
01:22:31  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Noone is going to vote for any other plan, of course, if anyone dares to make one.
01:23:02  <hylje> Who's Noone? :-)
01:23:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> well that is up to them :)
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01:23:27  <Mazur> THe borther of Everyone and All.
01:23:33  <Mazur> brother, too.
01:24:16  <PublicServer> <Mazur> 20 million already.
01:25:13  <Mazur> !serdef
01:25:16  <Mazur> !setdef
01:25:16  <PublicServer> *** Mazur has disabled wait_for_pbs_path, wait_twoway_signal, wait_oneway_signal, ai_in_multiplayer; enabled no_servicing_if_no_breakdowns, extra_dynamite, mod_road_rebuild, forbid_90_deg, rail_firstred_twoway_eol and set path_backoff_interval to 1, train_acceleration_model to 1
01:25:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm
01:25:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> one direction is full goods only
01:26:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> other is empty goods and raw empty I think
01:26:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> or
01:26:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> actually yes
01:26:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> only full goods and empty all
01:26:38  <PublicServer> <V453000> which means something like LL_RRR
01:26:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> LL_RRRR even
01:27:16  <PublicServer> <Mazur> I'm not clear anough even to think that through.
01:27:22  <PublicServer> <Mazur> :-)
01:28:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> shit is
01:28:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm
01:29:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> two full train groups shouldnt merge
01:29:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> full goods with full goods on ring
01:29:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> I want to make empty trains join into full trains twice
01:29:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> not once 2x empty and 2x full
01:32:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm
01:32:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> that actually doesnt make sense :>
01:33:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> unless we do some more messing
01:34:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> this works
01:35:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> this means always the mix as I just said
01:35:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> requires 2 goods drops though
01:36:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> Mazur: go check the plan you just made :P should be done now I think
01:36:54  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Yes.
01:39:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> uh
01:39:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> xd
01:40:12  <PublicServer> <V453000> ah yes
01:41:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> good
01:41:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> wodk
01:41:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> works
01:42:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> hope you are happy with it :)
01:42:23  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Yes.
01:42:53  <PublicServer> <Mazur> And if not, I can always do the original in another game,.
01:43:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> :D k
01:43:18  <PublicServer> <Mazur> I'm quite ptractical like that.
01:43:36  <PublicServer> <Mazur> practical, even.
01:43:42  <PublicServer> <V453000> does the plan actually fit the map?
01:43:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> yeah +-
01:44:26  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Some places might not take a long tunnel.
01:45:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> the tunnels were more clear though
01:45:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> because now it actually is a line to C
01:45:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> yeah just write it there
01:48:45  <PublicServer> <Mazur> How do you see the corner hubs?  Two half hubs separated?
01:49:25  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Or is the double track another visual thing for you?
01:50:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> just normal MSH
01:51:05  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Yup.
01:51:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> which can also mean separation into 2 basically
01:51:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> but that is what a MSH always has as an option
01:51:32  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Indeed.
01:58:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> ok
01:59:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> so the fucked up 25kV requirement cant be reached
01:59:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> you have to load dutch track set which isnt available on bananas yet
01:59:51  <PublicServer> <V453000> which is ... idiotic
02:01:03  <Mazur> Indeed.
02:03:29  <Mazur> It's not been released yet.
02:03:38  <Mazur>
02:04:10  <V453000> that doesnt matter
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02:04:42  <V453000> right now the tracks are required, that means they should either be IN the train set, or the requirement should not apply if the track set is not loaded
02:06:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> but oh well for this game we shall have some ok trains
02:06:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> either way, good night
02:06:19  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has left the game (leaving)
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02:06:56  <Mazur> gn
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04:03:45  <absolutis> !password
04:03:45  <PublicServer> absolutis: primal
04:04:27  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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05:41:37  <absolutis> anyone there?
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05:44:33  <Firestar> !password
05:44:33  <PublicServer> Firestar: polkas
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05:44:59  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> hello.
05:45:01  <PublicServer> <Firestar> hi absolutis
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07:02:36  <absolutis> hey
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07:22:51  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> anyone there?
08:00:05  <absolutis> hello?
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08:08:34  <Ryton> hi
08:08:42  <Ryton> I'll be there in like 10 mins
08:08:48  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> k
08:09:03  <Ryton> ah you are still here :-)
08:09:17  <Ryton> Dutch track set is still unavailable?
08:09:20  <Ryton> that sux :'(
08:09:25  <absolutis> unavailable?
08:09:53  <Ryton> hmm
08:09:57  <Ryton> it is available it seems
08:10:01  <Ryton> just not trough bananas
08:10:04  <Ryton> has it
08:10:18  <Ryton> that is
08:10:32  <Ryton> ah nvr mind
08:10:32  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> what about
08:10:38  <Ryton> train set: yes. track set: no
08:11:06  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> nah
08:12:46  <Ryton>*.zip has it
08:12:57  <absolutis> hm
08:13:02  <absolutis> guess i missed it
08:13:06  <absolutis> but k
08:13:17  <Ryton> but
08:13:20  <Ryton> it has still some issues
08:13:22  <Ryton> it seems :'(
08:20:04  <Ryton> on my way
08:20:06  <Ryton> !password
08:20:06  <PublicServer> Ryton: rosier
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08:21:11  <PublicServer> <Ryton> howdy
08:21:14  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> hey
08:21:17  <PublicServer> <Ryton> oh, MUCH better!
08:21:19  <PublicServer> <Ryton> the landscape
08:21:46  <PublicServer> <Ryton> wow @ Mazurs plan :-) looks complicated
08:22:08  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> meh, i prefer a simpler one
08:22:18  <PublicServer> <Ryton> it seems so :-p ;)
08:22:25  <PublicServer> <Ryton> I'll make one too, soonish
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08:22:31  <PublicServer> <Ryton> still have to think about it
08:22:34  <McDonald> !pass
08:22:38  <McDonald> !password
08:22:38  <PublicServer> McDonald: rosier
08:22:42  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> (hint, hint, that plan is much like PSG196)
08:22:55  <PublicServer> *** McDonald joined the game
08:22:59  <PublicServer> <Ryton> remind me, what was special about 196?
08:23:01  <PublicServer> <McDonald> hey
08:23:07  <PublicServer> <Ryton> hi there
08:23:13  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> only 2 hubs
08:23:35  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> stations for each town
08:23:37  <PublicServer> <Ryton> I 'mstill in favour ofa  Refit game :-)
08:23:47  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> kinda hard here
08:24:01  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> the only cargo with a full chain is grain
08:24:15  <PublicServer> <Ryton> so? grain boost :p
08:24:21  <PublicServer> <Ryton>  ;-)
08:24:31  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> hmh
08:24:31  <PublicServer> <Ryton> or steel?
08:24:45  <PublicServer> <Ryton> thats a full cycle too, no? iron ore -> steel -> factory -> goods
08:25:07  <PublicServer> <McDonald> no maglevs? :(
08:25:10  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> no
08:25:12  <PublicServer> <Ryton> btw, money maker planes are all grouped up
08:25:20  <PublicServer> <Ryton> all 3 are in N now
08:25:23  <PublicServer> <Ryton> E that is
08:25:33  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> though fastest cargo train is 320 km/h
08:30:18  <PublicServer> <Ryton> bah :p
08:30:24  <PublicServer> <McDonald> boo
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08:49:14  <Ryton> :had a failed bribe
08:49:19  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> hmh
08:49:20  <Ryton> trees is more efficient, it seems
08:49:26  <Ryton> is/are
08:50:02  <McDonald> are
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08:54:18  <Ryton> srry
08:54:21  <Ryton> back in 10
08:55:35  <absolutis> !password
08:55:35  <PublicServer> absolutis: plazas
08:55:45  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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09:02:12  <Ryton> on my way
09:02:25  <Ryton> !password
09:02:25  <PublicServer> Ryton: erring
09:03:07  <Ryton> ok not yet :p
09:05:19  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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09:05:39  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> btw i have a problem with your plan
09:05:50  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> steel or cattle does not refit
09:06:00  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> to goods
09:12:58  <Ryton> ah well
09:13:02  <Ryton> grain it is then
09:13:13  <Ryton> your remark is quite valid :-)
09:13:46  <Ryton> thats a "small" hickup in the plan ;-)
09:15:28  <Ryton> why make only grain/goods refit possible?
09:15:30  <Ryton> weird...
09:22:02  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> cattle -> goods is impossible too.
09:22:37  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> and 140km/h is CL2 only with some of the wagons oddly i think
09:23:19  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> i'd use CL3
09:23:34  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> for 140 km/h
09:25:08  <McDonald> !password
09:25:08  <PublicServer> McDonald: burped
09:25:23  <PublicServer> *** McDonald joined the game
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09:36:38  <PublicServer> <Ryton> what is auto-)refit?
09:42:08  <PublicServer> <Ryton> can i delete your remarks, abso?
09:42:18  <PublicServer> <Ryton> thx, it was indeed a valid one :-)
09:54:34  <PublicServer> <Ryton> still around , Abso?
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10:13:35  <McDonald> !password
10:13:35  <PublicServer> McDonald: neuter
10:13:36  <Ryton> coolm
10:13:41  <Ryton> new feature:
10:13:50  <Ryton> signals can be built UNDERNEATH TRAINS!!
10:13:53  <Ryton> finally :D
10:14:05  <Ryton> even running trains, or stopped ones
10:14:13  <McDonald> thats good :D
10:14:19  <Ryton> yeah, thats revolutionary!
10:14:25  <Ryton> think about modifying a hub
10:14:29  <Ryton> with trains all over the place
10:14:37  <Ryton> took ages of waiting, now it 'll go a lot faster...
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10:14:54  <Ryton> I love it :-)
10:16:03  <V453000> really? well that is a nice feature
10:16:10  <V453000> !password
10:16:11  <PublicServer> V453000: bloods
10:16:23  <PublicServer> *** V453000 joined the game
10:16:25  <Ryton> will result in a lot more crashes too offcourse :-)
10:16:38  <Ryton> but that price I'm willing to pay
10:16:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm not really
10:16:56  <Ryton> !password
10:16:56  <PublicServer> Ryton: bloods
10:17:01  <Ryton> it worked in SP
10:17:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> the first signal shoulr matter for the running train
10:17:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> removing signals could be dangerous :)
10:17:18  <Ryton> well, if you remove with ctr-drag
10:17:28  <Ryton> suddenly all signals are gone on the track
10:17:29  <Ryton>  :p
10:17:37  <Ryton> therefore: chain collision :p
10:17:39  <Ryton> yeah :-)
10:17:45  <Ryton> !password
10:17:45  <PublicServer> Ryton: bloods
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10:18:15  <PublicServer> <McDonald> it works!
10:18:21  <PublicServer> <Ryton> offc it does ;-)
10:18:32  <PublicServer> <V453000> omg first transfer all grain to one station then refit? :/
10:18:38  <PublicServer> <Ryton>  :p
10:18:45  <PublicServer> <Ryton> yeah V :-). Simple, isnt it ? :p
10:18:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> the transfer is completely pointless as you well know :)
10:19:05  <PublicServer> <Ryton> yes, I do :-)
10:19:15  <PublicServer> <Ryton> but who needs a usefull plan? :-)
10:19:17  <PublicServer> <Ryton> its a game after all :p ;-)
10:20:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> yeah but this doesnt give you any hubs at all
10:20:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> and hubs are generally kind of the idea of the game :)
10:20:33  <PublicServer> <Ryton> true, not on that line :p ;-)
10:20:39  <PublicServer> <Ryton> again: simple ;-) :P
10:20:49  <PublicServer> <Ryton> the other side (semi-chaos) should be more interesting
10:21:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> all into one station isnt more interesting either :)
10:21:09  <PublicServer> <Ryton> could trow in a compressor for goods trains btw
10:21:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> why would you do that
10:21:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is totally not what compressor is for :)
10:21:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> you will have a long straight stupid line for goods
10:21:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> you dont care how many trains are on it
10:21:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> expanding that is easy like nothing
10:22:02  <Ryton> true
10:22:05  <Ryton> easy expansion too
10:22:17  <Ryton> so the plan is too simplistic ... Bummer :p
10:22:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> compressor is effective when you can make some trains together in order to let other trains join on the ML
10:22:34  <Ryton> kk, i'll think of something more... usefull then :-)
10:22:41  <Ryton> just nice to see too
10:22:46  <Ryton> a dense network
10:22:50  <Ryton> 100% full
10:22:54  <Ryton> above critical density
10:23:04  <PublicServer> <V453000> compressors in here wouldnt make your network any fuller
10:23:10  <Ryton> could use SD of 1 :p
10:23:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> you would need something like a realtime packer which would mean a lot of messing for no real reason
10:23:34  <Ryton> who needs reason, mr NUTS ? ;-)
10:23:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> everyting in nuts has a reason :)
10:24:00  <Ryton> but I agree with you on this
10:24:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> and everything we build always has someo gain and thus a reason
10:24:16  <Ryton> the plan is a bit - or a lot-... lame:-)
10:24:32  <Ryton> lunch here, I'll give it some thought :-)
10:24:41  <Ryton> but YAY to the signals feature! :p
10:24:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> it isnt lame, it is just boring to play
10:24:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> its like if you suggested SML plan
10:25:08  <PublicServer> <McDonald> my plan is no plans :P
10:25:18  <PublicServer> <V453000> though SML can be useful in srnw pax
10:27:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> some wagons travel faster in curves? what
10:27:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> :d
10:28:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> broken set for a change :)
10:28:38  <PublicServer> <McDonald> do not complain :P
10:29:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is idiotic, it also requires tracks which are unavailable and without the tracks the trains are like 2-3 times weaker, which is all underlined with the absolutely senseless capacities of wagons which reach super high on some, super low on others
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11:16:46  <Ryton> you shoudnt be suprised
11:16:49  <Ryton> its the DUTCH set after all :p
11:17:00  <Ryton> shouldnt make sense :-)
11:17:27  <V453000> not really :)
11:17:53  <V453000> having broken power for trains and 25-60 capacities for wagons is just ...
11:18:00  <V453000> ...realistic I assume
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12:04:27  <Firestar> hi
12:05:53  <Firestar> !password
12:05:53  <PublicServer> Firestar: banish
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12:06:16  <PublicServer> <Ryton> hi fire
12:06:22  <PublicServer> <Firestar> hi ry
12:06:41  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> K V, i created a voting board, time to vote?
12:06:47  <PublicServer> <Ryton> idk ;-)
12:06:53  <PublicServer> <Ryton> 3 plans is meager, isnt it?
12:10:04  <PublicServer> <Ryton> I dont get V's plan completely yet...
12:10:11  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> neither do i
12:10:17  <PublicServer> <Ryton> why crossing sl areas?
12:10:24  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> for fun
12:10:34  <PublicServer> <Ryton> to make ring fuller?
12:10:54  <V453000> whole aim is always having a merger of A + B where A is empty trains B is full trains
12:10:56  <PublicServer> <Ryton> sightseeing? :-)
12:11:16  <V453000> basically everything in the plan is adapted to that
12:12:45  <V453000> the seemingly going "around the whole map" is because global traffic is generally nicer than local
12:13:06  <V453000> there might be another reason but I would have to connect to see it :p
12:14:59  <V453000> the train set has outright retarded differences in wagons so merging full trains with full could result in some weird stuff
12:15:18  <PublicServer> <Ryton> weird = interesting :po
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12:16:16  <V453000> not really that is like having a merger with various TLs
12:16:18  <V453000> almost
12:19:33  <PublicServer> <Ryton> CL5 for your plan, V?
12:20:16  <PublicServer> <Ryton> almost CL4...
12:20:34  <V453000> almost isnt entirely :p
12:20:38  <PublicServer> <Ryton> 208 kmh
12:21:13  <PublicServer> <Ryton> details :p
12:21:55  <PublicServer> <Ryton> how will a cl5 hub be expanded?
12:22:17  <PublicServer> <Ryton> I'm in favour of CL1 :p
12:22:35  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> by selecting electrified railroad construction and pressing 1-5
12:22:39  <V453000> have you smoked anything Ryton? :d
12:22:47  <PublicServer> <Ryton> lol Absolutis :-)
12:22:51  <PublicServer> <Ryton> and V: I wish :p ;-)
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12:25:02  <Ryton> why? :-)
12:25:43  <V453000> your questions and opinions today are really senseless
12:26:27  <Ryton> is that so different from other days? :p
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12:27:23  <Ryton> my interest in a real time packer is purely scientific... :-)
12:27:49  <Sassafrass> hi
12:27:50  <Ryton> I think might have its uses in some obscure future plan ;-)
12:27:53  <Ryton> hi Sassafrass
12:28:24  <V453000> I cant really imagine when would you ever need that thing
12:31:19  <Ryton> well, if you really really cannot expand a certain part of the ML
12:31:34  <Ryton> then you have to fill it to the max
12:31:55  <Ryton> but its quite rare, indeed, since mostly there is plenty of space for an extra ML, but not for the huge packing logic
12:32:35  <Sassafrass> !password
12:32:36  <PublicServer> Sassafrass: earths
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13:48:47  * Ryton would love to include programmable signals in one of the future games at openttdcoop :-)
13:48:55  <Ryton> like a not signal, or a NAND
13:49:05  <V453000> I dislike that quite a bit tbh :)
13:49:27  <V453000> it doesnt really provide you with additional options, but you dont see the logic lines so it is hard to see what the logic actually does
13:55:39  <Ryton> I know :p
13:55:41  <Ryton> but if you have only 1 type of signal
13:55:53  <Ryton> it can simplify and make logic trains obsolete
13:56:04  <Ryton> thus making more complex logic constructinos
13:56:04  <Ryton> quite small
13:56:19  <Ryton> btw, what about signals on bridges? ;-) that would make double bridges obsolete
13:56:27  <Ryton> again making more compact hubs possible
13:57:59  <absolutis> play chillpatchpack
13:58:03  <absolutis> has all of those options
13:59:03  <V453000> signals on bridges dont really achieve anything :)
13:59:22  <V453000> oh, except making the game interesting in that one point of not having signals on them
13:59:54  <V453000> yeah, you have bridges faster. But it only takes away the decision of multiplying
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14:00:34  <V453000> a NOT signal could be ok
14:00:49  <V453000> but if you have each signal have a program inside of it which you cant exactly see, it is a mess
14:01:04  <PublicServer> <Ryton> well yes, that I agree upon
14:01:18  <PublicServer> <Ryton> but just not or nand, and only 1special signal type per game
14:01:32  <PublicServer> <Ryton> nand can be more interesting than not, for some station entries imho
14:01:36  <absolutis> not nand
14:01:45  <absolutis> i think you can build any type of gate with thay
14:01:47  <absolutis> that*
14:01:50  <PublicServer> <Ryton>  = and? ;-)
14:02:00  <V453000> whatever
14:02:09  <V453000> point stands, specific signal vs programmable
14:02:10  <PublicServer> <Ryton> not nand = or?
14:02:19  <absolutis>
14:03:42  <absolutis> well you can't reasonably build nand with not but why would you want to
14:03:59  <absolutis> nand with nand*
14:07:43  <PublicServer> <Ryton> not nand  = and
14:08:06  <PublicServer> <Ryton> I'll investigate chillpatchpack
14:08:36  <PublicServer> <Ryton> wow, 124 pages of forum comments :D
14:08:37  <V453000> the alpinic maps it is able to make is interesting setting, rest is trash :)
14:12:36  <absolutis> infrastructure sharing and cargodist
14:12:42  <absolutis> those also make it pretty interesting
14:13:32  <V453000> sharing == stupidly restricted coop
14:13:44  <V453000> cargodist is just ill minded I think
14:14:02  <absolutis> i disagree with you, sir
14:14:08  <PublicServer> <Ryton> lol, you have some unique point of views, V ;-)
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14:17:56  <mfb-> hi
14:18:11  <absolutis> hello
14:18:12  <Firestar> hi
14:18:19  <absolutis> btw V what about voting phas
14:18:22  <absolutis> phase*
14:18:24  <Firestar> how things going?
14:19:00  <Firestar> !password
14:19:01  <PublicServer> Firestar: nickel
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14:19:44  <absolutis> V453000?
14:20:17  <PublicServer> *** mfb joined the game
14:20:35  <absolutis> mfb?
14:21:23  <PublicServer> <Ryton> hi mf
14:21:26  <PublicServer> <Ryton> mfb even*
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14:23:54  <PublicServer> <mfb> A/B/C/D are primary->goods industries in V/Mazur's plan?
14:24:40  <PublicServer> <Ryton> I think so, yes
14:24:43  <PublicServer> <Ryton> and corners are drops
14:24:46  <PublicServer> <Absolutis> not sure, but i think so
14:25:00  <PublicServer> <Ryton> quite sure, since trains going to ring are full goods
14:25:26  <PublicServer> <Ryton> or empty raws
14:25:28  <PublicServer> <mfb> and why do we have "empty raw A" at the ring?
14:25:38  <PublicServer> <Ryton> sl's come from the ring, and go to A I guess?
14:25:52  <PublicServer> <mfb> in this case, the tunnel is confusing
14:26:00  <PublicServer> <Ryton> is it?
14:26:12  <PublicServer> <Ryton> e.g. slh near C feeds raws to A area
14:26:18  <PublicServer> <Ryton> then full trains go to A drop
14:26:20  <PublicServer> <Ryton> trough teh tunnel
14:26:26  <PublicServer> <mfb> if we use direction connections, no raw materials ever reach the ring
14:26:28  <PublicServer> <Ryton> (I think at least ) :p
14:26:30  <PublicServer> <mfb> oh
14:26:40  <PublicServer> <mfb> empty trains should use the ring to come back?
14:26:42  <PublicServer> <Ryton> then they go on the ring, to slh again
14:26:45  <PublicServer> <mfb> like this
14:26:47  <PublicServer> <Ryton> I think like this, yes
14:26:49  <PublicServer> <Ryton> but not sure
14:26:56  <PublicServer> <Ryton> must be, with unidirectional signals
14:27:46  <PublicServer> <Ryton> like this?
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14:27:56  <PublicServer> <mfb> split earlier
14:28:16  <PublicServer> <Ryton> k makes sense
14:28:50  <PublicServer> <Ryton> overlapping rings :-)
14:29:08  <PublicServer> <Ryton> will be changing # of tracks between each junction probably
14:29:34  <PublicServer> <mfb> we could use the improved goods transportation system there
14:30:20  <PublicServer> <Ryton> i have no clue what you mean :p
14:31:06  <PublicServer> <mfb> goto A, drop at C/A drop, try (load at B->goto D/B drop), otherwise go back to A
14:31:16  <PublicServer> <mfb> => full trains in both directions
14:32:30  <PublicServer> <Ryton> I agree, except for: try to load at B: if not => go to D (instead of A)
14:32:45  <PublicServer> <Ryton> that changes direciton of goods trains then.
14:32:48  <PublicServer> <mfb> well, implementation details :D
14:33:13  <V453000> !password
14:33:14  <PublicServer> V453000: cawing
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14:33:26  <PublicServer> <mfb> goto A if B fails would allow a direct ML split
14:33:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> the point is that the trains are shitty so I want all mergers to be full+empty
14:34:27  <PublicServer> <mfb> shitty trains and TL5? :(
14:34:41  <PublicServer> <mfb> +CL5
14:35:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> the set has a feature of reducing power of the trains if the correct tracks arent used
14:35:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> and of course the track set isnt available
14:35:40  <PublicServer> <mfb> I like the plan, but can we talk about the TL? :D
14:35:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> sure what is the problem
14:35:57  <PublicServer> <mfb> I don't like CL5/TL5
14:36:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> suggestion iz? :D
14:36:25  <PublicServer> <mfb> 3-4
14:36:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> the wagons have fuckup lengths mostly
14:37:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> so 5 is most effective
14:37:09  <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm ok
14:37:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> and the map isnt too hard so I think CL5 is okay
14:38:15  <Firestar> i actually dont really care which TL/CL is chosen
14:38:21  <Firestar> ti just deal with it
14:38:29  <Firestar> *i
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14:42:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> voting?
14:42:15  <absolutis> voting
14:42:18  <absolutis> y
14:42:30  <V453000> @stage Voting
14:42:30  *** Webster changes topic to "Welcome to #openttdcoop, the Cooperative OpenTTD | PSG242 (r24463) | STAGE: Voting | | New players, use @quickstart and !help |"
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14:52:38  <PublicServer> <Ryton> V: you can use mini-wagons
14:52:44  <PublicServer> <Ryton> (xs or S) for each type
14:52:50  <PublicServer> <Ryton> that saves you 1-2 CL's
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15:34:55  <absolutis> Hello.
15:35:15  <LoPo> hi
15:35:19  <LoPo> !password
15:35:19  <PublicServer> LoPo: gables
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15:35:53  <absolutis> !password
15:35:53  <PublicServer> absolutis: gables
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15:41:28  <V453000> LoPo: ? :)
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17:34:21  <Maraxus> !password
17:34:23  <PublicServer> Maraxus: hamper
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18:14:42  <Mark> yo
18:15:11  <V453000> hip
18:15:12  <V453000> hio
18:15:24  <Mark> hiphio to you
18:15:41  <Mark> !dl win64
18:15:42  <PublicServer> Mark:
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18:39:08  <kakben_> !dl win32
18:39:08  <PublicServer> kakben_:
18:40:01  <kakben_> !password
18:40:01  <PublicServer> kakben_: angers
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18:49:58  <PublicServer> <kakben> i voted too, seems like maz & v can be pretty cool to me
18:55:46  <mfb-> what is the current status?
18:56:05  <Mark> @status
18:56:05  <Webster> Mark: I am connected to oftc as Webster.
18:56:08  <PublicServer> <kakben> voting still it seems
18:56:11  <Mark> uh
18:56:12  <Mark> !password
18:56:13  <PublicServer> Mark: psychs
18:56:19  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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18:56:38  <PublicServer> <kakben> hi there
18:56:48  <PublicServer> <Mark> hello
18:57:37  <PublicServer> <Mark> all this is too complicated
18:58:03  <PublicServer> <kakben> u think?
18:58:09  <PublicServer> <Mark> i think
18:58:12  <PublicServer> <Mark> sometimes
18:58:18  <PublicServer> <kakben> i wouldnt know, this is my second game on this server
18:59:00  <PublicServer> <Mark> its my 200th and i still dont get it
18:59:19  <PublicServer> <kakben> :P
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19:01:03  <mfb-> voting stage is too complicated? :p
19:01:11  <PublicServer> <Mark> the plans are :P>
19:01:37  <PublicServer> <kakben> do you think absolutis plan is too complicated too?
19:01:49  <PublicServer> <Mark> yea
19:01:53  <Ryton> my first plan had a half without bbh's ;-) :-P
19:04:22  <Ryton> btw, has it ever occured in the past that a player submitted multiple plans in one game?
19:04:32  <PublicServer> <Mark> yea
19:04:55  <PublicServer> <kakben> i think it could be fun to play a game where nothing can be delivered by a train longer than 3.  any longer train has to transfer. did u try that?
19:05:22  <PublicServer> <Mark> probably
19:05:26  <PublicServer> <Mark> we do tl3 all the time
19:05:41  <PublicServer> <kakben> haha ok
19:05:48  <PublicServer> <kakben> nvm then
19:05:54  <PublicServer> *** Mazur joined the game
19:06:12  <Ryton> other plan was a cenhral grain drop near city, and grain goods refit between that, factory & city
19:07:49  <Ryton> but Mark: why dont you add your own plan then?
19:07:55  <PublicServer> <Mark> i am
19:08:06  <PublicServer> <Mazur> Yay!
19:09:17  <Ryton> not yay... yay is reserved for signal building under trains! thats yay ;-)
19:09:47  <PublicServer> <Mark> there, plan
19:10:23  <PublicServer> <Mark> wtf is this trainset
19:10:31  <Ryton> hehe
19:10:39  <PublicServer> <kakben> lol tl 2 mark? that means a LOT of trans...?
19:10:45  <PublicServer> <Mark> it does indeed
19:10:47  <Ryton> yes, indeed Mark ...
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19:12:08  <Ryton> try 25 kv trains... track set is missing for them :-P
19:12:36  <Ryton> & very limited refit options
19:12:47  <PublicServer> <Mark> fuck refit
19:14:13  <PublicServer> *** Mazur has left the game (leaving)
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19:15:55  <PublicServer> <kakben> not happy with the 320 kmh mark?
19:16:01  <PublicServer> <Mark> no
19:17:12  <PublicServer> <Mark> whats this 25kv thing?
19:18:06  <PublicServer> <Mark> well i suppose these shit trains make sense, i overtake the "HSL" driving on the highway next to it
19:19:44  <PublicServer> <kakben> u seem to be a bitter guy =) i dont see whats wrong with the first train, was pretty cool
19:19:52  <PublicServer> <Mark> accel is way too slow
19:20:10  <PublicServer> <Mark> anything over 25 tiles is unplayable imho
19:20:16  <PublicServer> <Mark> unless its crazy fast
19:20:22  <PublicServer> <kakben> i guess you are right, since its a length 3 train
19:21:22  <PublicServer> <Mark> now reconsider your votes :P
19:21:28  <PublicServer> <Mark> V is a noob, dont vote for him
19:21:34  <PublicServer> <Mark> so is maz for that matter
19:22:40  <PublicServer> <kakben> ok ill give you some cred then =)
19:23:30  <PublicServer> <kakben> with your plan, i might get the practice i want with building a BBH
19:23:52  <Ryton> lol Mark. are you into politics?
19:24:35  <Ryton> on a vote raising campain
19:24:56  <Ammler> [21:21] <PublicServer> <Mark> V is a noob, dont vote for him <-- agreed
19:25:15  <Mark> Ammzer :)
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19:26:20  <Mark> [21:23] <+PublicServer> <kakben> with your plan, i might get the practice i want with building a BBH - thats the point
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19:29:32  <Firestar> hi how are voting stats?
19:29:46  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> not sure
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19:29:48  <PublicServer> <Mark> crap
19:30:23  <Firestar> why crap?
19:30:52  <Firestar> !password
19:30:52  <PublicServer> Firestar: shoved
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19:33:50  <PublicServer> <Firestar> actually its pretty much clear who won or not?
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19:49:14  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
19:51:30  <PublicServer> <kakben> there, now you have my contribution too =)
19:55:42  <PublicServer> <kakben> gn, see you
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20:03:25  <Ryton> whats the score?
20:03:55  <Ryton> !screen
20:03:55  <PublicServer> *** Ryton liked to make screenshot of last action, but nobody was working since. (
20:04:42  <Ryton> still not working?
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