Log for #openttdcoop on 28th October 2012:
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03:58:55  <Sylf> !password
03:58:55  <PublicServer> Sylf: orgasm
03:59:00  <Sylf> <3
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08:44:56  <Afdal> Hello
08:46:15  <Afdal> Can anyone with a lot of knowledge about train pathfinding tell me why using waypoints like this DOESN'T work to balance train input across tracks?
08:46:16  <Webster> Title: 6314e50bbfc8fb9566e02dc28dd64917.png (at
08:47:39  <Afdal> I don't understand why such a hard bias for one track would still exist when the waypoints are equally spaced from the merge with the same penalties between them
08:48:38  <Afdal> The train on the middle track is joining either of the two outer tracks
08:52:29  <Maraxus> do you have a larger picture with where the train is going to from there?
08:53:17  <Afdal> It passes through many other merges on its way to a factory drop
08:53:51  <Afdal> And interestingly, WITHOUT the waypoint solution, trains preferred the bottom track
08:54:04  <Afdal> but with it they always choose the top track when given the choice
08:54:33  <Maraxus> and you didn't make any other changes that the waypoint?
08:54:34  <Afdal> I just wanna know why this doesn't work.  It seems like it really should D:<
08:54:41  <Afdal> yep, no other changes
08:55:20  <Afdal> You can add tons of different penalties on either track after the waypoints by the way and that won't affect anything
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08:57:34  <Maraxus> well it's a bit hard to come to any conclusion when I can't see the whole network, but afaik you can't balance load with waypoints
08:57:56  <Afdal> You can do this for example
08:57:57  <Webster> Title: 270fbaee9e312d28370e146a451b7137.png (at
08:58:12  <Afdal> And they'll still choose that top track every single time when given the choice
08:58:29  <Afdal> That's why I'm saying it won't help you to know what the rest of the network looks like
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09:00:16  <Afdal> Do trains pick a particular first based on map direction when going through their algorithm to decide what the best path is between two options with equal penalties?
09:00:22  <Maraxus> well - how many tiles from that place to the station if you choose shortest path going through upper and lower waypoint?
09:00:23  <Afdal> particular path*
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09:00:58  <Afdal> Well like I said without those waypoints
09:01:07  <Afdal> trains instead choose the bottom track all the time
09:01:24  <Afdal> That's how I know it doesn't have anything to do with pathfinding after them
09:02:05  <Afdal> oh do you mean tiles from the waypoints themselves?
09:02:07  <Afdal> hmmm
09:03:44  <Dom_> !password
09:03:44  <PublicServer> Dom_: roping
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09:03:56  <Afdal> I guess the top waypoint is physically two tiles closer to the station label...
09:04:52  <Afdal> Do vehicles choose between shared station/waypoint slots based on the closest ones to their next destination?
09:04:58  <Maraxus> !password
09:04:58  <PublicServer> Maraxus: roping
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09:05:41  <PublicServer> <Dom> morning :)
09:05:47  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> hi
09:06:51  <Afdal> No that couldn't be it
09:07:04  <Afdal> I've got another example on this same map that would disprove that
09:09:43  <Tray> Trains choose their direction based on penalties so (even if the two path's penalities are the same) trains choose one track and since all trains use the same algorythm they all choose the same track
09:10:03  <Afdal>
09:10:04  <Webster> Title: 31785b664dfe9500d25c4975224f129c.png (at
09:10:16  <Tray> the waypoints change the behaviour of trains at the split, because trains only see penalties until their next order
09:10:26  <Afdal> yeah that's what I thought
09:10:35  <Afdal> So what's makes them prefer one waypoint over the other?
09:11:58  <Tray> I did not dive into the code but I think it just chooses the first possible solution if their all equal, mostly that results into some direction based dependency
09:12:33  <Afdal> yeah that's also what I've been thinking
09:12:44  <Afdal> however, looking at my two examples,
09:12:55  <Afdal> one of them preferred the top track
09:13:03  <Afdal> while the other preferred the bottom track
09:13:14  <Afdal> one left, the other right
09:13:35  <Tray> Well, for obvious reasons: they are not
09:13:51  <Afdal> not what?
09:13:57  <Tray> I'm sorry for the last comment.
09:14:01  <Afdal> :o
09:14:30  <Tray> My best guess is that they tend to choose the right path first
09:14:38  <Afdal> b-b-but
09:14:52  <Afdal> it chose the left one on my other example :(
09:14:56  <Tray> I mean the right corner of the map
09:15:11  <Afdal> top-right corner?
09:15:31  <Tray> you're right there is no right corner (:
09:16:10  <Afdal> hmm, that might just be it
09:16:17  <Tray> but I think you get the point, I think the preference is based on a map based position of the track and not related to the direction of the train
09:16:29  <Afdal> they prefer the eastern-most option when all things are the same
09:16:47  <Afdal> well northeaster-most
09:16:50  <Afdal> whatever
09:17:10  <Afdal> I dunno...
09:17:33  <Afdal> Yeah I get what you're saying but I'm not seeing it in those two examples of mine...
09:17:59  <Afdal> yeah okay it wouldn't be the northeasternmost
09:18:04  <Afdal> just the easternmost...
09:18:07  <Tray> I try to explain:
09:18:18  <Tray> From the split you draw an arrow to the right side
09:18:25  <Tray> trains choose that direction
09:18:37  <Afdal> ah yeah
09:18:40  <Afdal> right at the split
09:18:45  <Afdal> now I see it
09:19:00  <Afdal> very interesting if I true
09:19:06  <Afdal> I wonder if there's a western bias as well
09:20:08  <Tray> if you're interested in splits, V wrote an article about them some time ago
09:21:05  <Tray>
09:22:08  <Afdal> Yeah I've read that actually
09:22:14  <Afdal> I don't want to use logic to solve this though
09:22:26  <Afdal> logic constructions
09:23:03  <Afdal> I guess I'm gonna have to stick with balancing with penalties on a by-merge basis
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09:29:06  <Afdal> hmm
09:29:25  <Afdal> This time trains prefer the bottom path
09:29:26  <Webster> Title: 3b5813669db46ff1d8488e288f894e45.png (at
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09:35:11  <Afdal> And finally this one
09:35:12  <Webster> Title: 8fada413828340e3fc581475582078b9.png (at
09:35:52  <Afdal> So maybe it chooses a path when all penalties are equal based on whichever path at the fork points closest to east
09:36:55  <Afdal> north and south being closer than west...
09:39:09  <PublicServer> <Dom> hm i dont like the location for cow goods drop.
09:39:23  <PublicServer> <Dom> its too near to the cow goods pick
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09:40:45  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> and the problem is?
09:41:23  <PublicServer> <Dom> they are too close together
09:48:43  <Afdal> Nope, that hypothesis doesn't quite seem to be it either
09:48:44  <Webster> Title: d6c017b686b6c7193356e9e31ede3cc4.png (at
09:49:05  <Afdal> in that example it prefers the west split instead of the north
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09:54:48  <PublicServer> <Jam35> hi
09:54:54  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> hi
09:54:55  <PublicServer> <Dom> morning jam :)
09:55:25  <PublicServer> <Jam35> (yawns)
09:55:51  <PublicServer> <Jam35> reflection on the game btw
10:12:17  <PublicServer> <Jam35> signal gap at ore drop exit
10:12:36  <PublicServer> <Dom> where?
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10:13:08  <PublicServer> <Dom> oh thanks :)
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10:13:32  <PublicServer> <Jam35> you would have noticed sooner or later :)
10:13:42  <PublicServer> <Dom> :) maybe
10:21:45  <Afdal>   @_@
10:21:46  <Webster> Title: 1fcf363846b6f78933cd217f99513029.png (at
10:26:47  <PublicServer> <Dom> gtgo
10:26:49  <PublicServer> <Dom> bb
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10:26:55  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> cu
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10:35:01  <V453000> Afdal: trains will always prefer some part
10:35:26  <V453000> the purpose of a "balancing" is not to "balance" traffic. The purpose is to detect which ever line is free and join there
10:35:43  <Afdal> well in my case it is to balance traffic
10:35:47  <Afdal> anyway that's beside the point
10:35:47  <V453000> no, never
10:35:51  <Afdal> Yes, now
10:36:04  <V453000> then it is not balancing but flipflop
10:36:05  <Afdal> I just want to know why
10:36:20  <V453000> well simply every track has some penalty value
10:36:29  <V453000> obviously always one of them has to be the "least penalty"
10:36:34  <V453000> even when they seem similar/same
10:36:42  <Afdal> Did you see
10:36:43  <Webster> Title: 1fcf363846b6f78933cd217f99513029.png (at
10:36:44  <V453000> just code-wise. The train always has to decide only one track
10:36:45  <V453000> yes
10:36:48  <Afdal> That doesn'te ven make sense @_@
10:37:13  <V453000> if you looked in the code it would probably make sense
10:37:29  <V453000> some rotations/directions are prefered
10:37:36  <Afdal> Well someone who knows the code has some 'splaining to do D:<
10:37:39  <V453000> they have to be, every pathfinding result has to be unique
10:37:53  <V453000> train cant remain "undecisive"
10:38:01  <V453000> there is always just one result where the train goes
10:38:14  <Afdal> yes yes I get all that
10:38:27  <Afdal> I just want to know why these particular situations occur with waypoints
10:39:01  <Afdal> I thought it was some directional preference when other things are equal but that doesn't seem to be the case now
10:39:07  <V453000> some detail in the code. I havent seen the code myself so I have no idea, but it isnt important
10:39:20  <Afdal> It is to me
10:39:22  <V453000> there are many wtf things you can make with such trains
10:39:49  <V453000> how is that important? you can always just add penalty to one or the other track and make them choose forcibly
10:39:56  <V453000> or, with preference
10:40:00  <Afdal> Because I wanna know D:<
10:40:25  <V453000> not sure if that is a good approach in this case but well, I cant help you with that
10:40:55  <V453000> I would just suggest living with the tested results
10:41:01  <Afdal> I can't
10:41:03  <Afdal> Imma die
10:41:16  <V453000> k :d
10:42:09  <Afdal> also do waypoints outside orders have the same pathfinding penalty as stations?
10:42:13  <V453000> just pick the purpose what you need to build and concentrate on that
10:42:22  <V453000> no, I dont think they do
10:42:29  <Afdal> Do they have any penalty?
10:42:44  <V453000> test it :) I dont think they do
10:43:22  <Afdal> Doesn't seem like they do
10:50:49  <V453000> !password
10:50:49  <PublicServer> V453000: swings
10:51:00  <PublicServer> *** V453000 joined the game
10:51:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> hi :)
10:51:15  <PublicServer> <Jam35> hiya
10:51:17  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> hi V
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10:51:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> by the way, the layout of stations isnt based on distance, distance is just a side effect
10:52:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> the main point is to attempt using the network everywhere, with a well split traffic
10:52:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> that most of them are far from each other is just to generate equal traffic on all of that path
10:52:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> not to make profit
10:57:54  <V453000> Afdal: I have looked further in the discussion ... if you want to make a merger on the network, let them do it without the waypoints. You cant be suprised that they pick a wrong path if they go to the waypoint, not to the destination. Also, if you want to truly "balance" traffic like a 50:50 split, then waypoints indeed arent the way to go as Maraxus pointed out. Of course waypoints could be a part of something like flipflop, but there has
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11:02:06  <PublicServer> <Jam35> what's up with the prio over bridge MSH08 North?
11:02:24  <PublicServer> <Jam35> Dom's not here
11:03:46  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is a proken prio as I call it Jam35
11:03:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> scientific term
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11:04:35  <PublicServer> <Jam35> fair enough :)
11:05:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> now it is not-so-broken-anymore
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11:05:23  <PublicServer> <Jam35> yay :)
11:07:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> Ammler ther is no reason for that bad split ;)
11:07:21  <PublicServer> <V453000> esp with the 2ways which are necessary it cant be done this way
11:07:40  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> well, there was a missing doulble sign
11:07:54  <PublicServer> <V453000> where
11:08:01  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> end of bridge
11:08:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> hm
11:08:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> well still
11:08:24  <PublicServer> <V453000> if both bridges get red, this will make a detour to the right
11:08:30  *** Jake_ is now known as Jake
11:08:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> should keep this
11:09:00  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> if you want waiting space for the bridge, then you would need more han one tile
11:09:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> nono it isnt about waiting space
11:09:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is that if trains pick the path to the north once, they have to do it
11:09:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> wee
11:09:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> see
11:09:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> this cant happen
11:09:50  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> also the other joiner is missing prios
11:09:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> mpw ot camt
11:10:10  <PublicServer> <V453000> trains wait now
11:10:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> because they chose before seeing the 2ways
11:10:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> see the point?
11:10:28  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> don't get you
11:10:50  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> you wanted trains to use east, if norht is blocked?
11:10:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> train chooses whether to go to A or B
11:10:54  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> that didn't work
11:10:56  <PublicServer> <V453000> no I dont
11:11:15  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> yo your change is useless
11:11:17  <PublicServer> <V453000> if train wants to go to A and both bridges are full, it must wait for a free bridge
11:11:27  <PublicServer> <V453000> not split to B
11:11:37  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> ah ok
11:11:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> which happens if it chooses at the same time to both A/bridges/B
11:11:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> does it make some sense now?
11:11:55  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> you want the opposite
11:12:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> I want no detours just because of jammed bridges, is all
11:12:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> now when the decision point is separate from the bridges, steel trains always go to the bridges even when the bridge is full
11:13:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> ye
11:13:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> exactly :)
11:13:29  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> pen
11:13:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> ?
11:14:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> its a 2way penalties wont do much
11:14:01  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> didn't expect the pf to chose that way so quick
11:14:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> 2way signals :)
11:14:26  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> on the other side, it could also be good if that happens
11:14:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> the 2way signals are needed because first bridges are a lot shorter than the tunnels behind them
11:14:47  <PublicServer> <V453000> nah detours arent really a solution, just hiding the problem
11:14:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> the cargo transported rate will decrease anyway
11:15:37  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> well, you could also see it as "balancing"
11:16:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> no not really
11:17:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> it would just move the trains to another part of the map which would require drastically higher amount of trains to keep the cargo transported
11:17:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> and trains would still return by the original path
11:17:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> I see you adjusting the merger, just merge at one point always, not at 2
11:17:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> not to mention that combo signals are bad :p
11:18:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> better merge at A+B instead of A and B separately
11:18:53  <PublicServer> <V453000> similar to the other side
11:18:55  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> I don't like waiting trains
11:19:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> then make no or a short prio and they wont wait for long if ever
11:19:41  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> well, with choser that is
11:20:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is also an option to make a PBS there if you expect small traffic from the lines which give prio
11:20:13  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> but with such long joiner, trains can't chose
11:20:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> like
11:20:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> now both options are directly seen
11:20:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> also with the results of the prio
11:20:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> so if one prio is red, trains wont go there
11:21:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> or, will go preferably to the green one if there is such
11:21:41  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> yes, but there is still a way to go when they chosed
11:21:43  <PublicServer> <V453000> I just do not use it at BBH mergers because it could break with a bit higher traffic. In station entrances it works perfect
11:21:53  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> with direct join, if green, they join
11:21:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes but that doesnt matter
11:22:01  <PublicServer> <V453000> if the line was once green, it will be green again soon probably
11:22:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> also the direct join works a lot on probability that the gap on the ML is there _JUST_ when they are passing the signal
11:22:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> that is really dangerous and not really effective
11:24:48  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> Well, the idea of PublicServer game is also to see such issues and then fix it :-P
11:25:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> valid point but it isnt nice to see issues all the time, and also people usually learn from their mistakes :p
11:26:05  <PublicServer> <V453000> the combo signal join is typical for old-thinking people
11:26:19  <PublicServer> <V453000> doesnt really happen today, people just do a retarded PBS X and done
11:27:02  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> like my east join?
11:27:08  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes :)
11:27:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> systematically it is done well
11:27:20  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> that is ugly I know :-D
11:27:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> but if you made those little bits better, it would work well, too
11:27:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> like these
11:28:12  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> which "these"?
11:28:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> making space :)
11:28:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> see, the lines joined are still  the same
11:29:06  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> can you change bridge settings in game?
11:29:16  <PublicServer> <V453000> unfortunately not, I will soon though
11:29:42  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> max length?
11:29:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes
11:30:15  <PublicServer> <V453000> now it works well Ammler
11:30:24  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> oh no
11:30:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is the same as yours, but with correct waiting bays
11:30:37  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> you made a boring joiner on my north?
11:30:43  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> there was no pbs there
11:31:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> no PBS but there was the combo join again and chaotic joins to the other line - not in one spot
11:31:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> if trains from one direction join first, the other direction will have a lot harder time joining
11:31:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> which results in a sort of priority of joining lines
11:31:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> (you want to treat those lines equally)
11:32:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> the PBS is just a joke I wont touch on that :p
11:32:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> I do that sort of PBS mess myself sometimes, but usually when expanding.
11:32:55  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> there is no traffic that way anyway
11:33:14  <PublicServer> <V453000> atm :)
11:33:49  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> are all stations done?
11:33:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> yes we just need primaries
11:34:09  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> slhs
11:34:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> at  SLH 04 for example
11:34:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> those too, one near Flonwood for example
11:34:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> one next to SLH 12 would be useful too
11:36:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> build some if you want :p
11:37:09  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> prodcution 0, does that mean, the industry will die?
11:37:20  <V453000> I think so
11:37:38  <PublicServer> <V453000> unless it is constructing
11:39:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> savior :D
11:40:16  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> I should have a mouse
11:40:40  <PublicServer> <V453000> :D helps
11:41:26  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> does passenger on oil rigs have effect on oil production?
11:41:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> nope
11:42:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> it is like a farm, 2 separate cargoes
11:54:00  <PublicServer> <V453000> omg Ammler :D
11:54:38  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> should I have made pipe?
11:54:49  <PublicServer> <V453000> the signalling is worse :D
11:54:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> TF to catch a rig is fine
12:07:41  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> how do you full load on stations without order?
12:07:55  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> do you still need to stockpile?
12:08:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> you mean things like SRNW stations?
12:08:12  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> yes
12:08:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> mostly dummy trains
12:08:28  <PublicServer> <V453000> but there are various ways to do that
12:09:10  <V453000> most if not all general options should be here
12:09:52  <V453000> note that another option of that sort of thing is an overflow
12:11:36  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> hmm, no example to make something small
12:12:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> something small is overflow - self regulation for one station
12:12:48  <PublicServer> <V453000> SRNW in general is better for many stations ... of course you can also make a transfer into one station
12:12:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> and self regulate that one
12:14:24  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> nobody yet fixed the issue that debot "autotrack" their entry with useless tacks
12:14:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> what do you mean
12:15:03  <PublicServer> <V453000> ah that
12:15:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> well some dumb settings dont have them as useless :p
12:17:21  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> you didn't add many station grfs
12:17:35  <PublicServer> <V453000> simple game :)
12:17:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> I normally add more
12:17:55  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> why not always all?
12:18:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> feels messy but idk, doesnt really matter that much to me
12:20:43  <PublicServer> <Jam35> I see a broken priority
12:20:46  <PublicServer> <Amm1er> oh, you still can't modify station if train is on it
12:21:10  <PublicServer> <Jam35> uh-oh Dom again! might have known :D
12:21:29  <PublicServer> *** Jam35 has joined company #1
12:21:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> yeah, but you can modify signals when train is on it
12:21:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> would be nice if you could modify station too
12:23:06  <PublicServer> <Jam35> see !this ...not sure how to fix atm
12:23:28  <PublicServer> <Jam35> move tracks...
12:25:11  <PublicServer> <V453000> almost there
12:25:59  <PublicServer> <Jam35> ok that works! :)
12:26:33  <PublicServer> <V453000> or even that
12:27:59  <PublicServer> <Jam35> yes much nicer
12:28:37  <PublicServer> <V453000> in fact the solution could be a lot simplier
12:30:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> how about that
12:32:54  <PublicServer> <Jam35> seemed faster before? or just me
12:34:03  <PublicServer> *** Jam35 has joined spectators
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12:40:59  <PublicServer> <V453000> no way it could have been faster
12:41:09  <PublicServer> <V453000> firstly it was longer choice
12:41:31  <PublicServer> <V453000> secondly there were tunnels which could possibly reduce the throughput (which they probably didnt)
12:41:39  <PublicServer> <V453000> prio could be longer
12:41:55  <PublicServer> <Jam35> seemed like there were less waiting trains...just my impression
12:42:21  <PublicServer> *** Amm1er has left the game (leaving)
12:42:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> well there arent really any waiting trains atm
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13:02:36  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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13:02:42  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
13:03:56  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> hmm, trains :D
13:05:06  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> wow
13:05:12  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> someone is really pbs happy
13:05:22  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> see !who?
13:05:56  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> a few pbs signal
13:06:18  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> everything is pbs :o
13:08:27  <V453000> guess who :)
13:08:28  <V453000> Ammler
13:08:36  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> :/
13:08:55  *** Dom_ has quit IRC
13:12:31  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> why are there so many trains waiting in front of stations everywhere :/
13:14:31  <V453000> because it is a huge problem to have them there.
13:16:09  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> well, it wastes trains in the train limit
13:16:16  <V453000> yeah, disaster
13:16:20  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> might as well have just one or two trains waiting in stead of 10
13:16:22  <V453000> not arguing about this again
13:16:34  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> so they can be used by other stations when we hit the limit...
13:20:01  <PublicServer> *** XeryusTC has left the game (connection lost)
13:20:01  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
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13:52:20  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> im off for a bit - cu
13:52:23  <PublicServer> <Jam35> bfn
13:52:33  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus has left the game (leaving)
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16:30:57  <BenJTotterdell> !password
16:30:57  <PublicServer> BenJTotterdell: teaing
16:31:04  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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18:57:22  <Maraxus> !password
18:57:22  <PublicServer> Maraxus: teaing
18:57:35  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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18:58:06  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
18:58:14  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> hi
18:58:21  <PublicServer> <BenTotterdell> hi
19:02:45  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> looks like we have our first jam
19:02:51  <PublicServer> <BenTotterdell> indeed
19:07:22  <Ammler> !update
19:07:22  <PublicServer> Ammler: Update starting...
19:10:27  <PublicServer> *** Jam35 joined the game
19:10:31  <PublicServer> <Jam35> hi
19:10:38  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> hi
19:10:41  <PublicServer> <BenTotterdell> hi
19:12:22  <PublicServer> Update done: OpenTTD r24634 (run !install)
19:20:14  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> any ideas? 3rd line?
19:20:36  <PublicServer> <BenTotterdell> yep think thats the solution
19:21:02  <PublicServer> <BenTotterdell> through BBH 08 to BBH03
19:24:15  <Dom_> !password
19:24:15  <PublicServer> Dom_: alases
19:24:25  <PublicServer> *** Dom joined the game
19:24:29  <PublicServer> <Dom> hi :)
19:24:34  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> hi
19:24:35  <PublicServer> <Jam35> hi Dom
19:31:32  <PublicServer> <Dom> anyone building ?
19:31:46  <PublicServer> <BenTotterdell> the 3rd line?
19:31:53  <PublicServer> <BenTotterdell> I don't really fancy it tbh
19:32:03  <PublicServer> <Dom> 3rd ? where?
19:39:07  <PublicServer> <Dom> hmm
19:39:22  <PublicServer> <Dom> do you think be letting trains exit both ways
19:39:24  <PublicServer> <BenTotterdell> what are those signals for?
19:39:31  <PublicServer> <Dom> is gonna jam somewhere else?
19:39:49  <PublicServer> <Dom> its a pf trap
19:40:11  <PublicServer> <BenTotterdell> hmm ok
19:41:34  <PublicServer> *** BenTotterdell has left the game (leaving)
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19:43:03  <Afdal> Hello can anyone help me with fail-safe merges
19:43:14  <PublicServer> <Dom> kind of
19:43:38  <Afdal> Has to do with the two-way entry signal
19:43:52  <PublicServer> <Dom> ok and after that a penalty
19:44:04  <Afdal> I don't know how it happened, but at some point I arbitrarily started putting it half a tile closer to the merge
19:44:09  <Afdal> And I just cannot figure out why
19:44:38  <PublicServer> <Dom> ok and where may be the problem? does it work?
19:44:44  <PublicServer> <Jam35> bfn
19:44:46  <PublicServer> *** Jam35 has left the game (leaving)
19:44:51  <Afdal> I'm not sure, let me make a picture
19:44:57  <PublicServer> <Dom> ok
19:45:19  <PublicServer> <Dom> well does a train go into the line it should merge if there is no train ?
19:45:25  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus has joined spectators
19:45:25  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
19:45:31  <PublicServer> <Dom> oh
19:45:46  <Afdal> yeah they -seem- to work the same
19:45:55  <Afdal> just wait a moment
19:45:57  <Maraxus> were you building anything?
19:46:29  <PublicServer> <Dom> Maraxus:  not really atm but wanted to start a shl but okey maybe later then :)
19:47:18  <Afdal> Here
19:47:19  <Webster> Title: 2a97a55c7fda7636693b57bfe0d980b3.png (at
19:47:22  <Afdal> Subtle difference right?
19:47:23  <Maraxus> I'll be back in 20 - can stay in game if you want to build
19:47:34  <Afdal> The top version is how I used to do them, bottom is how I do them now
19:47:54  <Afdal> I can't for the life of me figure out what made me decide to start putting the entry signal closer to the split
19:48:15  <PublicServer> <Dom> idk but if it works it doesnt matter right?
19:48:27  <Afdal> yeah, but I just wanna be sure
19:48:34  <Afdal> Is there really no difference at all between the two?
19:50:16  <PublicServer> <Dom> why should it be ? the signal gets turns the colors the same way or?
19:50:53  <Afdal> Maybe they fail-safe doesn't work right if the two-way signal is too close???
19:51:16  <PublicServer> <Dom> hmm
19:51:18  <PublicServer> <Dom> never thought of that
19:54:15  <Afdal> a-ha!
19:54:17  <Afdal> It doesn't
19:54:26  <Afdal> ugh, so I've been doing it wrong this whole time
19:54:28  <PublicServer> <Dom> well than changed it back
19:54:46  <Afdal> What a terrible habit to accidentally pick up :(
19:55:00  <PublicServer> <Dom> happens to the best :D
20:00:52  <PublicServer> *** Dom has left the game (leaving)
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21:01:29  <dwarf> !password
21:01:29  <PublicServer> dwarf: jailed
21:01:48  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
21:01:50  <PublicServer> *** dwarf joined the game
21:01:56  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
21:01:56  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
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21:14:00  <Steven> !password
21:14:00  <PublicServer> Steven: jailed
21:14:23  <PublicServer> *** Steven joined the game
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21:19:26  *** Dom__ is now known as Dom_
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21:21:50  *** Dom__ is now known as Dom_
21:22:05  <Dom_> !password
21:22:05  <PublicServer> Dom_: squeal
21:22:05  <Dom_> #
21:22:16  <PublicServer> *** Dom joined the game
21:22:23  <PublicServer> <Dom> hello agian :)
21:22:27  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> hi
21:22:29  <PublicServer> <dwarf> hi
21:22:35  <PublicServer> <Steven> hi
21:24:13  <PublicServer> <Dom> some1 building?
21:24:31  <PublicServer> <dwarf> just thinking of adding some primaries
21:24:55  <PublicServer> <Dom> than add another slh :)
21:25:01  <PublicServer> <Steven> I'm adding a farm
21:25:52  <PublicServer> <dwarf> MSH 02 is jamming...
21:26:26  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> all the way to slh02 at times
21:28:20  <PublicServer> <dwarf> maybe a 3rd is in order
21:28:34  <PublicServer> <Dom> go ahead :)
21:28:41  <PublicServer> <Dom> i'll make my slh first
21:28:55  <PublicServer> <Dom> if you do a third kill the pf trap!
21:29:33  <PublicServer> *** Steven has left the game (general timeout)
21:29:33  <PublicServer> *** Steven has left the game (connection lost)
21:36:34  <Steven> !password
21:36:34  <PublicServer> Steven: parser
21:36:56  <PublicServer> *** Steven joined the game
21:37:10  <PublicServer> <Dom> Steven:  can you pls sign the stuff your building!
21:37:28  <PublicServer> <Steven> the game crashed on me, sorry
21:37:34  <PublicServer> <Dom> np :)
21:42:07  *** Dom__ has joined #openttdcoop
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21:50:14  <Ammler> !playercount
21:50:14  <PublicServer> Ammler: Number of players: 4 (0 spectators)
22:04:12  <PublicServer> *** Dom has left the game (general timeout)
22:04:12  <PublicServer> *** Dom has left the game (connection lost)
22:04:17  *** Dom_ has quit IRC
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22:07:54  <Ammler> !players
22:07:57  <PublicServer> Ammler: Client 148 (Orange) is dwarf, in company 1 (Gatston Transport)
22:07:57  <PublicServer> Ammler: Client 150 (Orange) is Maraxus, in company 1 (Gatston Transport)
22:07:57  <PublicServer> Ammler: Client 158 (Orange) is Steven, in company 1 (Gatston Transport)
22:14:58  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> gn
22:15:20  <PublicServer> *** Maraxus has left the game (leaving)
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22:53:11  <V453000> !password
22:53:11  <PublicServer> V453000: mildew
22:53:26  <PublicServer> <V453000> hi
22:53:26  <PublicServer> *** V453000 joined the game
22:53:28  <PublicServer> <dwarf> hi
22:53:30  <PublicServer> <Steven> hi
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23:05:22  <PublicServer> *** dwarf has joined spectators
23:05:42  <PublicServer> *** V453000 has left the game (leaving)
23:05:42  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
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23:24:13  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
23:24:14  <PublicServer> *** XeryusTC joined the game
23:25:57  <XeryusTC> !unpause
23:25:57  <PublicServer> *** XeryusTC has unpaused the server. (Use !auto to set it back.)
23:25:59  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players)
23:35:47  <PublicServer> *** XeryusTC has enabled autopause mode.
23:35:49  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)
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23:49:27  <Ammler> !install
23:49:59  <PublicServer> Ammler: install done, please run !restart
23:50:03  <Ammler> !restart
23:50:03  <PublicServer> Ammler: Restart scheduled, will be initiated in next minute!
23:51:01  <PublicServer> Scheduled quit for automated maintenance... will be back shortely
23:51:01  <PublicServer> Thank you for playing r24625.
23:51:06  <PublicServer> Server has exited
23:51:07  *** PublicServer has quit IRC
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23:51:22  <PublicServer> Autopilot engaged
23:51:22  <PublicServer> Loading savegame: '#openttdcoop - The Public Server ('
23:51:22  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v PublicServer
23:51:22  *** Webster changes topic to "Welcome to #openttdcoop, the Cooperative OpenTTD | PSG246 (r24634) | STAGE: Building | | New players, use @quickstart and !help |"
23:51:55  <XeryusTC> Ammler: !install updates to latest nightly?
23:51:56  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0001C53A:
23:52:07  <Ammler> no, !update does
23:52:16  <Ammler> !update
23:52:16  <PublicServer> Ammler: Update starting...
23:52:27  <XeryusTC> what does !install do then?
23:52:50  <PublicServer> Update done: OpenTTD r24636 (run !install)
23:53:08  <Ammler> well, !update does a udpate & make bunlde
23:53:10  <XeryusTC> oh, just step 2 :o
23:53:13  <Ammler> !install
23:53:15  <PublicServer> Ammler: install done, please run !restart
23:53:29  <Ammler> and install then copies the bundle to autopilot/
23:53:47  <Ammler> !restart
23:53:48  <PublicServer> Ammler: Restart scheduled, will be initiated in next minute!
23:54:01  <PublicServer> Scheduled quit for automated maintenance... will be back shortely
23:54:01  <PublicServer> Thank you for playing r24634.
23:54:06  <PublicServer> Server has exited
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23:54:15  <PublicServer> Autopilot engaged
23:54:15  <PublicServer> Loading savegame: '#openttdcoop - The Public Server ('
23:54:15  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v PublicServer
23:54:15  *** Webster changes topic to "Welcome to #openttdcoop, the Cooperative OpenTTD | PSG246 (r24636) | STAGE: Building | | New players, use @quickstart and !help |"
23:54:25  <PublicServer> ***  made screenshot at 0001C53A:
23:54:31  <Ammler> that way, you can update all the time, and install quite fast
23:55:00  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
23:55:00  <PublicServer> *** Amm1er joined the game
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23:58:16  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
23:58:18  <PublicServer> *** Amm1er joined the game
23:58:37  <Ammler> !unpause
23:58:37  <PublicServer> *** Ammler has unpaused the server. (Use !auto to set it back.)
23:58:39  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players)

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