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00:01:24 <PublicServer> <mfb> good night 00:02:06 <PublicServer> <Anson> g'N8 00:02:28 <PublicServer> <mfb> 01 sends many trains to the new lines now 00:02:38 <PublicServer> <mfb> hopefully 00:03:44 <PublicServer> *** mfb has left the game (leaving) 00:03:56 <mfb-> !players 00:03:58 <PublicServer> mfb-: Client 363 (Orange) is Anson, in company 1 (Dunningwell Transport) 00:03:58 <PublicServer> mfb-: Client 375 (Orange) is AndreasB, in company 1 (Dunningwell Transport) 00:04:10 <PublicServer> *** AndreasB has joined spectators 00:04:26 <PublicServer> <Anson> i did a little change at 00 ... old version was an equal 1:1:1 split to lane 1 vs lane 2 vs lane 4+5, but trains prefered the first lanes, thus mostly 1 and 2 00:04:41 *** mfb- has quit IRC 00:04:52 <PublicServer> <Anson> now there is one split first for 5 (and now even 5+6+7), and the rest 00:05:30 *** happy has quit IRC 00:06:33 *** happy has joined #openttdcoop 00:19:02 *** EyeMWing has joined #openttdcoop 00:22:10 *** Fehlersturm has joined #openttdcoop 00:24:43 <Fehlersturm> !password 00:24:43 <PublicServer> Fehlersturm: kiting 00:25:08 <Fehlersturm> !password 00:25:09 <PublicServer> Fehlersturm: rebels 00:25:26 <PublicServer> *** Fehlersturm joined the game 00:25:31 <PublicServer> <Anson> hallo 00:25:33 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> hellur? 00:25:56 <PublicServer> <Anson> mfb recently left and i will leave soon too 00:26:27 <PublicServer> <Anson> became a little crazy with that BBH :-) 00:26:37 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> just wanted to have a quick look at how 6th and 7s are coming along 00:26:38 *** retro|cz has quit IRC 00:26:41 <V453000> !save 00:26:41 <PublicServer> Saving game... 00:27:14 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> oh my 00:27:22 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> bbh is a bit huge now 00:27:25 <PublicServer> <Anson> 6th and 7th are almost done ... missing are mostly the connections FROM the neighbors 00:29:31 <PublicServer> <Anson> only temporary start of 6th and 7th from north, west and east ... the connections through BBH and to all neighbors SHOULD work now :-) 00:30:07 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> omg. well i shall expand some SLHs then. 00:30:49 <PublicServer> <Anson> while BBH is not fully tested, the rails should stay colored ... thus please no replace to the better wet rails 00:31:31 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> oh i am quite the noob. ill expand the SLHs but not connect my new rails. 00:31:42 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> until someone comes along and approves 00:31:54 <PublicServer> <Anson> color codes in BBH are for the directions ... else we will have to delete it and start over :-) 00:32:25 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> i imagine. 00:32:44 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> have you guys ever build a 7x7 BBH bevore? 00:33:42 <PublicServer> <Anson> i think there is a 5x5 BBH in the junctionary, with a comment that it would be crazy and huge :-) 00:34:16 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> well. the junctionary is not wrong 00:35:18 <PublicServer> <Anson> open the map with display of vehicles in orange ... BBH looks really nice now :-) 00:36:41 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> i like how it almost starts to fuse with the close SLHs 00:37:05 <AndreasB> wtf 00:37:10 <AndreasB> BBH got bigger 00:37:15 <AndreasB> I wouldnt even know where to start lol 00:37:31 <AndreasB> I doubt I could do it with 1+1 00:38:31 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> try. i think basically you split every line into as many directions ass the bbh has -1 then connect every direction. 00:38:44 <AndreasB> o.O 00:39:03 <AndreasB> ass 00:39:04 <AndreasB> crack? 00:39:16 <AndreasB> :3 00:39:42 <AndreasB> I need to go to bed 00:39:43 <AndreasB> ciao 00:40:01 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> so this bbh icoperate 84 point to point connections i think 00:40:07 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> good night 00:40:18 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> no twic as many 00:40:24 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> 168 00:41:58 <PublicServer> <Anson> 4 sides * 7incoming lanes * 3 destination directions * 7 outgoing lanes !? 00:42:46 <PublicServer> <Anson> even a balancer with 7 to 7 would have 49 connections 00:43:14 <Fehlersturm> every incoming lane connects adds 7*3 connections 00:43:18 <PublicServer> <Anson> and this would be 12 times as many ... 00:43:22 <Fehlersturm> 4 incoming lanes 00:43:42 <PublicServer> <Anson> incoming tracks from 4 directions, each having 7 lanes 00:44:21 <PublicServer> <Anson> going to 3 other directions, each having 7 outgoing lanes 00:44:27 <Fehlersturm> i think 168 if fucking impressive 00:44:29 <PublicServer> <Anson> thus 4 * 7 * 3 * 7 00:44:59 <Fehlersturm> no the outgoing lanes dont count 00:45:08 <Fehlersturm> thats the points you connect to 00:45:16 <PublicServer> <Anson> that would be 588 connections, if really connecting all with all 00:45:47 <Fehlersturm> oh you mean like that 00:45:58 <Fehlersturm> but lanes arent interconnected right? 00:46:12 <Fehlersturm> the 1 connects to the other 1s 00:46:19 <Fehlersturm> the 2 to the other 2s 00:46:23 <Fehlersturm> etc 00:47:01 <PublicServer> <Anson> BBH has less than those 588 now ... eg lane 6 and 7 from south are only connected to lane 6 and 7 towards west, not from 1-5 to 6+7, and not from 6+7 to 1-5 00:47:23 <PublicServer> <Anson> but there exist connections from 6 to 6, 7 to 7, and also 6 to 7 and 7 to 6 00:47:58 <Fehlersturm> ok. so you do a little loadbalancin in bbh 00:48:05 <PublicServer> <Anson> there are many connections where lane 1 connects to 5 or more outgoing lanes in one direction 00:48:39 <PublicServer> <Anson> i think it was all to all while there were 3 or 4 lanes per direction 00:49:01 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> it started with 3 per direction 00:49:19 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> then grew every night of the weekend. 00:49:22 <PublicServer> <Anson> yes, and i think until 4 or 5 it was all to all 00:51:12 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> oh yeah. looks like it 00:58:21 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> gah that mess would need a rebuild badly 00:59:52 <PublicServer> <Anson> connecting 4 lanes ALL TO ALL would be 192 connections ... for 7 it would be 588 ... thus we have some value in between, maybe 400 :-) 01:01:00 <PublicServer> <Anson> hehe, we are nearing a value of 100k rail pieces :-) 01:08:38 <PublicServer> <Anson> i need to leave sooner or later ... will be AFK now but stay logged in so that you can continue building 01:09:08 <PublicServer> <Anson> my guess : half an hour 01:09:11 <Fehlersturm> oh 01:09:16 <Fehlersturm> dont worry 01:09:21 <Fehlersturm> i wasnt aware 01:09:28 <Fehlersturm> there need to be 2? 01:09:35 <Fehlersturm> so just go too sleep 01:09:42 <PublicServer> <Anson> on WS only 1, but here 2 01:09:43 <Fehlersturm> i should too 01:09:54 <Fehlersturm> go to sleep 01:09:59 <Fehlersturm> goodnight then 01:10:26 <PublicServer> <Anson> i will stay for at least half an hour ... but not longer than 4am 01:11:04 <PublicServer> <Anson> will give you a 5 minute warning before i log 01:11:10 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> k 01:36:33 *** happy has quit IRC 01:54:23 <Fehlersturm> i am going to bed. 01:54:29 <Fehlersturm> goodnight 01:56:45 <PublicServer> *** Fehlersturm has left the game (leaving) 01:58:41 <PublicServer> *** Anson has joined spectators 01:58:41 <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players) 01:58:49 <PublicServer> *** Anson has joined company #1 01:58:49 <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players) 01:59:01 <PublicServer> *** Anson has joined spectators 01:59:01 <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players) 01:59:21 <PublicServer> <Anson> back ... I'll be gone now too 02:00:15 <PublicServer> <Anson> HINT FOR ADMINS : current setting for number of players allows the game to run even with only a single player logged in 02:02:01 *** dwarf has quit IRC 02:05:05 *** Fehlersturm has quit IRC 02:12:21 <PublicServer> *** Anson has joined company #1 02:12:21 <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players) 02:38:35 *** roboboy has joined #openttdcoop 02:54:47 <PublicServer> *** Anson has enabled autopause mode. 02:54:49 <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players) 02:55:34 <PublicServer> <Anson> someone forgot to reenable auto with 2 players 02:55:40 <PublicServer> *** Anson has joined spectators 03:00:44 <PublicServer> *** Anson has joined company #1 03:22:26 *** [1]Mark has joined #openttdcoop 03:26:43 *** [2]Mark has joined #openttdcoop 03:27:45 *** Mark has quit IRC 03:27:45 *** [2]Mark is now known as Mark 03:30:31 *** [1]Mark has quit IRC 03:30:45 <PublicServer> *** Anson has joined spectators 04:33:32 *** dwarf has joined #openttdcoop 04:33:32 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o dwarf 04:43:05 *** dwarf has quit IRC 04:44:51 *** Djanx has joined #openttdcoop 05:02:56 *** Djanx has quit IRC 05:18:39 *** Sian has joined #openttdcoop 05:27:00 *** dwarf has joined #openttdcoop 05:27:00 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o dwarf 06:04:56 *** BiG_MeEcH has joined #openttdcoop 07:01:47 *** x86_64 has joined #openttdcoop 07:01:50 <x86_64> o_O 07:02:00 <x86_64> !help 07:02:00 <PublicServer> x86_64: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/IRC_Commands 07:02:07 <x86_64> !quickstart 07:02:14 <x86_64> @quickstart 07:02:15 <Webster> Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki - http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Quickstart 07:03:00 <V453000> O_o 07:03:30 <x86_64> what? 07:03:39 <x86_64> i'm not interested, bye 07:03:41 *** x86_64 has left #openttdcoop 07:03:41 <V453000> idk, a valid reply to o_O? 07:03:44 <V453000> lol 07:29:42 *** Sian has quit IRC 07:29:43 *** Sian has joined #openttdcoop 07:54:09 <V453000> !rcon set min_active_clients 07:54:09 <PublicServer> V453000: Current value for 'min_active_clients' is: '2' (min: 0, max: 255) 07:54:12 <V453000> !auto 07:54:13 <PublicServer> *** V453000 has enabled autopause mode. 08:02:29 *** flaky has joined #openttdcoop 08:02:54 <flaky> hey 08:03:20 <flaky> @quickstart 08:03:21 <Webster> Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki - http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Quickstart 08:05:36 <flaky> !help 08:05:37 <PublicServer> flaky: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/IRC_Commands 08:18:31 <flaky> maybe somebody can explain to me where the heck i get that newwater.grf working for the PS? 08:18:32 <Webster> Read the Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki - http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Quickstart (again, try !grf) 08:20:21 <V453000> Webster just said it :) 08:20:51 *** dwarf has quit IRC 08:24:29 <flaky> hey V453000 08:24:41 <flaky> yes, i had the pack in the wrong directory 08:24:47 <flaky> now it works 08:24:56 <flaky> !password 08:24:56 <PublicServer> flaky: hedged 08:25:25 <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players) 08:25:28 <PublicServer> *** flaky joined the game 08:28:45 *** Sian has quit IRC 08:28:56 *** Sian has joined #openttdcoop 08:29:27 <V453000> :) 08:30:30 <PublicServer> *** flaky has left the game (leaving) 08:30:51 <flaky> rubberducks as trains? ;D 08:37:52 *** flaky has quit IRC 08:54:48 *** Sianic has joined #openttdcoop 09:02:51 *** Sian has quit IRC 09:57:45 *** happy has joined #openttdcoop 10:13:31 <planetmaker> they swim! 10:27:40 <V453000> or float? :) 10:28:39 <PublicServer> *** Anson has joined company #1 11:18:00 *** retro|cz has joined #openttdcoop 11:20:50 *** happy has quit IRC 12:39:54 *** perk11 has joined #openttdcoop 12:44:27 *** Djanx has joined #openttdcoop 12:45:20 <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players) 12:45:22 <PublicServer> *** Djanxy joined the game 12:52:47 *** BiG_MeEcH has quit IRC 12:52:47 *** PublicServer has quit IRC 12:52:47 *** Sylf has quit IRC 12:52:47 *** Ammler has quit IRC 12:55:50 *** happy has joined #openttdcoop 12:56:51 *** PublicServer has joined #openttdcoop 12:56:51 *** Sylf has joined #openttdcoop 12:56:51 *** Ammler has joined #openttdcoop 12:56:51 *** oxygen.oftc.net sets mode: +voo PublicServer Sylf Ammler 12:57:01 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> yeah, been following the progression :D 12:57:08 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Sylf 12:57:08 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Ammler 12:57:23 <PublicServer> <Anson> looks really nice when you open the map and select the tab to show vehicles :-) 12:57:51 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> :P 12:59:33 <PublicServer> <Anson> i am just trying to fix the problem at Prefingway-on-sea Valley 13:01:16 <PublicServer> <Anson> for testing, i caused a jam in/at the tunnels, and the trains now behave really strange when they want to leave the station ... probably soon will again deadlock and make the whole unusable 13:01:44 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> at the bbh ? 13:02:14 <PublicServer> <Anson> Prefingway-on-sea Valley ... the exit of that station is messed up because of bad signaling 13:02:32 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> ah ye,s aw all the sign 13:02:32 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> s 13:02:35 <PublicServer> <Anson> some nice idea probably, but locks up because of the signals 13:03:26 <PublicServer> <Anson> when at one time both tunnels are used, the next train will go back from the reverser to the station, and thus lock up 13:03:28 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> change the signals ? 13:03:50 <PublicServer> <Anson> i am thinking whyt the creator might have thought :-) 13:04:05 <PublicServer> <Anson> there is probably a good idea behind it, bad badly implemented 13:04:36 *** happy has quit IRC 13:04:39 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> probably thought that both tunnels would never be used at the same time 13:04:53 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> also cant see how they would 13:05:03 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> unless theres jam leaving the station 13:05:21 <PublicServer> <Anson> but why did he use 2way combo and 2way exit at the end of the station and the entry to the reverser ? 13:05:56 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> good question 13:06:27 <PublicServer> <Anson> the tunnels are only very slightly shorter than the reverser ... thus it can happen that one train is waiting for a moment in a tunnel, and the other tunnel is still used too 13:06:35 *** Fehlersturm has joined #openttdcoop 13:07:05 <PublicServer> <Anson> at that station, there were other problems too ... maybe it happened when that other problem was fixed ... 13:07:31 <PublicServer> <Anson> some signals were wrong direction and thus caused the overflow to jam and also jam the whole network :-) 13:07:41 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> heh 13:07:52 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> sometimes it takes just that one signal 13:07:58 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> that is somewhere 13:08:06 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> and wont be found ;) 13:08:12 <Fehlersturm> !password 13:08:12 <PublicServer> Fehlersturm: furrow 13:08:13 <PublicServer> <Anson> maybe when fixing that, the fixer misinterpreted the station and put signals at the exit like it would be an entry to the station ... 13:08:28 <PublicServer> *** Fehlersturm joined the game 13:08:42 <Fehlersturm> i am gonna completely rebuild that horrible merge i build yesterday 13:09:19 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> meh 13:09:59 <PublicServer> <Anson> hallo, fehler 13:10:21 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> hallo 13:10:31 <PublicServer> <Anson> you saw the signs i put on the slh, indicating which lines merge where ? .-) 13:12:33 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> so whoever put up all the signs around the SLH10a merge, is also of the opinion that it should be rebuild 13:13:44 <PublicServer> <Anson> it might work as a first attempt to get traffic on all 7 rails, but it shouldn't be the final attempt :-) 13:14:26 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> well the AAA AA is basically just moving the temporary lane 6 and 7 splits upstream of the SLH 13:20:45 <PublicServer> <Anson> we would need a plan, how the additional three lines (besides the oldest lines ABCD) shall be used ... else mit doesn't make much sense to plan something on the slh 13:21:23 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> well. wont the be used in exactly the same way? 13:21:45 <PublicServer> <Anson> you need to know where additional trains come from, or whether to simply get sideline1 on two of the new lanes, and sideline2 on the third new lane 13:22:19 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> afaik D i s also completely connected to all SLHs 13:22:21 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> probably dont get 7 lines from the 10 main pickup 13:23:08 <PublicServer> <Anson> the current system is very good at giving almost all choices to both sidelines ... the problem is onlyy where those trains should be merged to, since there are only 4 lanes incoming 13:23:43 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> well ideally to the lanes who are least busy 13:24:21 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> looking at pickup 10 exit - more or less no trains choose 2nd line 13:24:29 <PublicServer> <Anson> there are thre lanes which are "least busy" : the three lanes which don't come in to the SLH (the three others besides ABCD) 13:24:54 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> oh pribably /mfb PF trap works to good? 13:24:57 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> ill try to disconnect that train distribution and see what heppens 13:25:55 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> 4th line is actually jamming at times 13:26:01 <PublicServer> <Anson> the old version was with 4 incoming and 4 leaving lanes, and thus sideline1 and sideline2 had to be merged to them ... now there are 4 lanes ABCD which might just pass through, and the two incoming lanes from sideline1+2 can create the three new mainline lanes 13:27:37 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> but all ines need to be connected to slh10a dropß? 13:30:25 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> well. the output loadbalancer of 10 main DROP got removed.. 13:30:36 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> i just did 13:30:39 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> for testing 13:32:57 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> ill build a temporary detour for the SLH10a merge. and then we can decide how it should be rebuild. in this detour ill just passthrough ABCD and make XandY just merge with the remaining lines 13:44:06 *** roboboy has quit IRC 13:46:53 <PublicServer> <Anson> overflow depots are empty again .... 90 more trains on the network now :-) 13:47:03 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> :P 14:03:13 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> hokay. old merge completely disconnected 14:03:31 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> traffic still kindof flowing 14:04:03 *** happy has joined #openttdcoop 14:06:17 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> trains really hate using 6+7 14:10:57 <PublicServer> <Anson> i added a signal towards 7, and removed one towards 1+6 ... now more trains go to 7 14:13:07 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> need coffe get bevore rebuild 14:13:53 <PublicServer> <Anson> i think the hub works well enough until we get more traffic (mor direct lanes from the east) 14:22:48 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> hokay so we just leave it as is. until its needet 14:23:26 <PublicServer> <Anson> i think the next problem should be to take care of "!jam back ..." 14:24:13 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> thats a horrible junction. 14:24:31 <PublicServer> <Anson> currently, it is not too bad, but that was the jam that caused the signal problem to trigger 14:24:56 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> it works well. but its herd do grasp 14:25:54 <PublicServer> <Anson> doesn't work too well all the time ... i put up the sign when i followed the jam from the end in Prefingway-on-sea Valley station 14:26:32 <PublicServer> <Anson> look at it now ... starts jamming again 14:27:27 <PublicServer> <Anson> too much traffic from SLH11a drop west and several farms 14:28:57 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> well. part of the problem is that 6+7 isnt connected in all SLHs and the BBH doesnt allow 6+7 to choose arbitary outgoing lines. so sometimes a train just blocks evrything cause he cannot go to 6/7. like !there . 14:29:44 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> so now. 7 is unused again 14:30:42 <PublicServer> <Anson> i just changed the signals at the !there split from 1way to 2way 14:31:16 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> oh is this the bug where path signals jus take forever? 14:31:35 <PublicServer> <Anson> with 1way, the trains always prefered the inner lanes at the PBS and thus blocked the entire line 14:31:55 <PublicServer> <Anson> not a bug, but a feature :-) 14:32:34 <PublicServer> <Anson> at a PBS, trains select a direction that they like and then go to it or wait ... unless there are 2way signals that force them to the other direction when one is red 14:34:17 <PublicServer> <Anson> in a tight space, there is not much difference between pathes and thus they select a free path. but when it is more complicated, longer distance, and/or several penalties, etc (like on the long route of lanes 6 and 7), they select the "wrong" lane and then wait ... when there is only a normal 1way signal 14:37:30 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> we could reconnect every lane. one lane northeast of its current lane 14:38:01 <PublicServer> <Anson> i replaced the PBS with entry/exit now ... and it works 14:38:08 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> thus get traffic on 6+7. and use our new 1 to get more flow from the direction we have jams 14:39:42 <PublicServer> <Anson> at the sign "!jam back", our incoming trains are on the "yield" branch of the prio, and thus wait forever ... together with the PBS problem, it caused a massive jam ... 14:40:14 <PublicServer> <Anson> now max 1 train should be waiting on the bridge, and all following trains will go to the almost unused additional lane 14:41:32 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> still. middle lines jam while 6+7 are almost unused 14:41:58 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> btw i am using 7654321_1234567 nomenclature 14:44:32 <PublicServer> <Anson> makes sense ... inner lanes are #1, and counting outwards, mostly adding new lines outside, thus adding up 14:45:11 <PublicServer> <Anson> with the changed split, all the traffic which jammed before (coming from the farm) now goes almost only to #1 14:46:33 <PublicServer> <Anson> i think that the connection of 6 and 7 (from south/east) i still the first temporary connection to connect those new lines at all 14:46:55 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> yeah 14:48:13 <PublicServer> <Anson> at !firstsplit, trains prefer the inner lanes, and even if they go to the outer, they later select #5 and don't go to #6 or #7 14:50:21 <PublicServer> <Anson> trains would have to be given the choice even before they get to !firstsplit ... trains from the inner three lanes get no option at all to select the new lanes 14:52:45 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> what do thes PS do? 14:52:47 <PublicServer> <Anson> even with severe penalty (three backwards signals), they prefer the inner lanes 14:52:54 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> k 14:53:36 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> as i said. some trains cant even go to 6+7 since their target (SLH) is not connected to them yet 14:54:51 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> well i am wrong. they can reach every SLH 14:57:07 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> made a messy merge at the 10 main drop, but seems at least better than the PBS merges :D 14:57:53 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> this shouldnt be a to 3 merge at all 14:58:04 <PublicServer> <Anson> the pathes for the two new lanes are very long around the BBH ... thus trains prefer the direct path right through its center -> using the first 4 or 5 lanes 14:58:10 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> i experimented with that station in singleplayer 14:58:33 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> 10 drop ? 14:58:39 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> its just hard to rebuild in MP woithout causing a massive jam 14:58:41 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> jop 14:58:55 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> yup, that's why i didnt do that instead :D 14:59:55 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> surprised that the 3 entrance lanes can take the traffic tho 15:03:17 <PublicServer> <Anson> i changed the sinals a bit now ... longer gaps for the inner choices, and thus more trains select the outer new lanes 15:04:47 <PublicServer> <Anson> the trains have nice short loading times :-) 15:05:02 <PublicServer> <Anson> only 3 platforms per lane are needed to take all their traffic 15:07:44 <PublicServer> <Anson> maybe (sometime in the future) the entrance to drop10 could be rearranged ... only merging 7 to 4 instead 7 to 3, since the 12 platforms should be good enough for 4 lanes 15:10:52 <Fehlersturm> how strictly does CL 1.5 need to be obeyed? can i sometimes disregard it on a single line to a single loading statioN? 15:11:29 <PublicServer> <Anson> CL1.5 needs to be used on all mainlines to have max speed on them 15:11:39 <PublicServer> <Anson> sidelines are less strict 15:18:43 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop 15:18:43 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ODM 15:26:52 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> do you always play your maps with these big primary drops? 15:27:35 <PublicServer> <Anson> "you" ? i am also relatively new :-) 15:27:42 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> same :D 15:27:44 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> ok 15:27:50 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> i didnt know 15:28:04 <PublicServer> <Anson> but on most maps, we have other trains with much longer loading times 15:28:08 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> but judging from the savegames that i've been looking quite a bit at 15:28:18 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> to me the newb. it seems like everyones around since forever 15:28:21 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> there's usually big stations 15:28:27 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> for the whole map 15:29:01 <PublicServer> <Anson> a rule of thumb is that you need X or X+1 platforms when trains have X loading stages 15:29:27 <PublicServer> <Anson> if you multiply 4 lanes with 7 loading stages, you easily get 28 platforms :-) 15:30:17 <PublicServer> <Anson> on this map, it would only be 4 lanes times 3 loading stages = 12 platforms, and you see that it works very well :-) 15:31:39 <PublicServer> *** Djanxy has joined spectators 15:32:15 <PublicServer> <Anson> the length of the station looks big too, but it is needed for a drop, some refitting depots and then the puckup ... thus all games with refitting have stations of length 2*x + 15 (for TLx) at least 15:34:09 <PublicServer> <Anson> if you want smaller stations, you need more stations, but having many stations to drop the same type of cargo would make networks very easy ... just like having only 1:1 connections between a mine and a power plant (or 5 lines for 5 mines and 5 powerplants) :-) 15:34:51 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> well. you just need the additional rule of far away drop 15:35:21 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> i am always wondering how a huge ring would cope 15:35:27 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> wouldnt need a BBH 15:35:37 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> just one huge circular ML 15:35:43 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> and SLHs 15:36:49 <PublicServer> <Anson> we recently had a map where all mainlines had to be circular, creating a network of loops :-) 15:37:19 <PublicServer> <Anson> as additional challenge, SLHs had to be above and BBHs below the snow line :-) 15:38:21 <PublicServer> <Anson> if you want to do such a large ring, just suggest such a network plan when the next map starts 15:38:31 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> aha!! you uys had a map? 15:38:45 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> so it is you after all :-) 15:39:07 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> yeah ikinda start to get bored with this map tbh 15:39:39 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> since i am not that mush of a BBH builder by now. 15:40:03 <PublicServer> <Anson> look at the sign !!NETWORK PLAN!! ... every map on this server starts with a map, some money maker, and people submit plans, then voting and finally building 15:40:53 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> oh yeah. i got that. i am well behaved. so i read the getting started section in the wiki :-) 15:41:33 <PublicServer> <Anson> submit your plan on next map, and we might end up with one gigantic ring :-) 15:42:56 *** Progman has joined #openttdcoop 15:44:03 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> another one would be a high desity ML where you create windows by blocking single lines for a short while. and then fill those windows with compressed blocks of trains from the SL 15:44:13 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> abit like real networks work 15:46:51 <PublicServer> <Anson> that sound similar to PZG13 or PZG2013 :-) 15:47:21 <PublicServer> <Anson> but i think that it would require too special technics for this server 15:47:56 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> not so shure. just a bit of logic 15:49:02 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> can we build input buffer depots? 15:50:31 <PublicServer> <Anson> depots always should be invisible 15:51:26 <PublicServer> <Anson> thus they need to be either behind a terminus or behind a reverser 15:52:32 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> gah don know howto build 15:53:29 <Fehlersturm> whats the name for depots like that? 15:53:37 <Fehlersturm> so i can look it up in the wiki 15:54:18 <PublicServer> <Anson> look for keywords like "conditional overflow" 15:54:32 <PublicServer> <Anson> there are 3 blog articles in the series 15:55:05 <PublicServer> <Anson> eg @@ABR04 15:55:06 <Webster> Advanced Building Revue 04: Overflows at #openttdcoop - http://blog.openttdcoop.org/2010/04/26/advanced-building-revue-04-overflows/ 15:58:06 <PublicServer> <Anson> look at !something like this 15:59:04 <PublicServer> <Anson> that depot is now invisible 15:59:16 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> but that depot is reachable no? 15:59:31 <PublicServer> <Anson> not from the mainline 15:59:57 <PublicServer> <Anson> there is no rail between incoming lane and the depot ... count the rail pieces :-) 16:00:48 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> oh. trains reverse in this small stub and thn get into depot 16:01:14 <PublicServer> <Anson> trains come in, pass the first platform when the signal is red, pass the second, can't go to the depot either, thus go into the reverser ... then can't go into used platforms again and go to the depot 16:02:24 <PublicServer> <Anson> then they wait in the depot until one of the 2way platform signals turns green ... since every depot has an internal implicit signal for its exit ... in this case an entry signal to match the platforms exit signals 16:05:39 <PublicServer> <Anson> this version is just a simple and small version, should be mostly used at the start of a new map 16:06:41 <PublicServer> <Anson> probably most useful on the welcome server since it avoids problems when you are afk ... but on this server, there should always be someone to take care of problems like increased production or queuing trains 16:07:35 <PublicServer> <Anson> if you read the advanced building reviews, there are much more complicated (and much better) overflows :-) 16:07:41 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> is it frowned upo to build these? 16:07:59 <PublicServer> <Anson> to see one in this game, look at the station where we had the problems before, with the bad signals 16:08:19 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> can you have a look at !something like this again? 16:08:21 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> k 16:08:31 <PublicServer> <Anson> what shall that do ? 16:08:57 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> well does tha fake station part at the end of PF trap 16:09:21 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> hide the depot? 16:09:31 <PublicServer> <Anson> oh, didn't see the station tile ... i always have them on transparent 16:10:52 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> more like this 16:11:02 <PublicServer> <Anson> now, there is no path to the fake station tile# 16:11:44 <PublicServer> <Anson> now there is, but it is useless ... trains will directly enter the correct station 16:11:46 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> depot has a combination of path + pre signal on its exit right? 16:12:12 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> just make it forced then 16:12:22 <PublicServer> <Anson> no fixed signal ... it just matches what is outside 16:12:25 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> ok 16:12:57 <PublicServer> <Anson> at the other station, the depot has an implicit entry signal since there are exit signals at the platforms 16:13:31 *** dwarf has joined #openttdcoop 16:13:31 *** Webster sets mode: +o dwarf 16:13:35 <PublicServer> <Anson> at your new depot, it would be just a normal block signal 16:14:50 <PublicServer> <Anson> all yellow rails are one block 16:15:04 <PublicServer> <Anson> thus only one train enters and the depot makes no sense 16:15:46 <PublicServer> <Anson> ouch ... crash almost guaranteed 16:16:13 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> + cant get into depot 16:16:20 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> cause sharp bend 16:16:32 <PublicServer> <Anson> trains from the depot can want to leave up to the signal, and other trains might try to enter the depot -> crash 16:17:02 <PublicServer> <Anson> it is always very risky to have block signals and 2way path signals on the same block 16:18:52 <PublicServer> <Anson> this might work too 16:19:22 <PublicServer> <Anson> but probably needs the split to the reverser directly in front of the other signals 16:19:36 <PublicServer> <Anson> this should work now 16:19:43 *** Sturmi has joined #openttdcoop 16:20:43 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> i sortof still only half understand signaling 16:21:03 <Sturmi> !password 16:21:04 <PublicServer> Sturmi: packer 16:21:40 <PublicServer> *** Sturmi joined the game 16:21:43 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> hai 16:21:49 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> hello 16:21:56 <PublicServer> <Anson> if you know the basic concept of blocks, it is easy ... and blocks also exit on real train networks 16:22:02 <PublicServer> <Anson> hallo 16:22:17 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> what do you not understand? 16:22:51 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> oh, 7lane-bbhwtf is working :D 16:22:57 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> nono. i understand all the rules. they just arent second nature enough to me that i can think up new stuff easily 16:22:59 <PublicServer> <Anson> when you want to have more than a single train on a network without danger of collisions, you need to separate the network into blocks, and each block can hold one train only ... separating blocks by signals 16:23:03 <PublicServer> <Anson> that's all :-) 16:23:34 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> Fehler: Basic understanding + practice => good signalling 16:24:04 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> very much practice + creativity => new signalling concepts 16:24:10 <PublicServer> <Anson> special rules for signals in OTTD : 1way signals cause trains to search for the best path and then go to that specific signal ... waiting at it if it is red 16:24:17 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> all this + insanity => wtf 16:24:49 <PublicServer> <Anson> if you have a 2way block signal instead, there is a setting which causes trains to not use red 2way signals and try another ... 16:25:12 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> another special rule for ottdcoop: place twoway signals only where useful 16:25:26 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> as they can lead to major network isuuses 16:25:27 <AndreasB> everywhere! 16:26:10 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> jup 16:27:13 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> i see you did some optimizin on slh11 anson :) 16:28:24 <PublicServer> <Anson> there was a PBS in front of the bridge 16:28:35 <AndreasB> It's a wonder that BBH works 16:28:40 <PublicServer> <Anson> and that doesn't work unless you use 2wa signals behind it 16:28:46 <AndreasB> Its so big (Thats actually what she said) 16:28:57 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> it doe work, but sometimes it takes ages to switch 16:29:09 <AndreasB> o.O 16:29:13 <PublicServer> <Anson> else the trains select a path and wait at the bridge, and never use the free lanes since they are long, complicated and have penalties 16:29:15 <AndreasB> I never use twoway behind pbs 16:29:21 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> uh, double sbends... ugly 16:29:59 <PublicServer> <Anson> thus i first replaced the 1way with 2way signals which worked, but using presignals instead is even better now 16:30:49 <PublicServer> <Anson> Andreas, look at !noPBS 16:31:13 <AndreasB> okeh 16:31:17 <PublicServer> <Anson> youi see that it works now, sending trains to the left lane when the bridge is used ? 16:31:21 <AndreasB> dont touch me when i do o.O 16:31:41 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> I have no idea what signal pbs is 16:31:41 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> yep 16:31:51 <PublicServer> *** AndreasB has joined company #1 16:32:13 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> andreas: look at right corner 16:32:23 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> ah 16:32:26 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> that is one way pbs 16:32:45 <PublicServer> <Anson> this was the old version ... PBS and one signal ... trains would wait in front of the bridge 16:32:55 <PublicServer> <Anson> and not use the other lane 16:33:17 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> why is there no signal at all before that bridge? 16:33:33 <PublicServer> <Anson> the bridge was one tile longer before the changes 16:33:55 *** valhallasw has joined #openttdcoop 16:34:19 <PublicServer> <Anson> now you see the effect of having PBS ... 16:34:26 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> wha? 16:34:40 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> yea pbs with a signal right behind it is crap 16:34:43 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> Shouldnt there be signal there? 16:34:50 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> no 16:35:00 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> with a signal there it screws up 16:35:02 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> I always use oneway after pbs 16:35:04 <PublicServer> <Anson> remove the 2way behind the bridge ... make it a 1way only, and trains will again stop at the bridge 16:35:14 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> as close to split as pissible 16:35:17 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> posibløe 16:35:31 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> possible 16:35:45 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> Nothing stops @ bridge? 16:36:12 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> Or did you mean that it blocks? 16:36:18 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> it works too 16:36:24 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> because it will wait for bridge? 16:36:30 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> i think you are talking about the long gaps? they do loadbalancing 16:36:30 <PublicServer> <Anson> there are several small other changes ... 16:36:37 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> What? 16:36:43 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> Arent we talking about pbs? 16:36:55 <PublicServer> <Anson> maybe it works because of them, but it is not guaranteed that it will always work by itself 16:37:03 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> andreas we talk about changes at slh11 16:37:13 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> if there are big blocks then the next train cannot enter the same branch immediatly aterwards. and chooses the other one. 16:37:19 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> Yes, I am there 16:37:29 <PublicServer> <Anson> trains always used to try using the bridge instead of the free lane 16:37:39 <PublicServer> <Anson> thus they caused a queue and jam 16:37:41 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> Theres a >P 16:37:43 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> weird 16:37:46 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> Set a twoway before the bridge? o.O 16:38:05 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> no 16:38:10 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> behind the bridge 16:38:16 <PublicServer> <Anson> to many people it looks like a bug, but it is only a feature that is sometimes difficult to understand :-) 16:38:23 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> like this it will screw uo again 16:38:26 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> Behind it 16:38:29 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> Why? 16:38:41 *** BiG_MeEcH has joined #openttdcoop 16:38:47 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> lagggie lag alggings 16:38:49 <PublicServer> <Anson> as i just explained for normal block signals : 1way causes trains to select a path and then wait at a signal if it is red 16:38:51 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> because trains will try the bridge again 16:39:02 <PublicServer> <Anson> 2way signals cause it to always select a free one 16:39:37 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> So twoway in front of bridge should be the same as putting it behind it? 16:39:41 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> if there is space for block signals at a split, use them :D 16:40:25 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> andreas: depends on the gap 16:40:31 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> What kinda signal is before the bridge now? 16:40:37 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> exit 16:40:40 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> These signals are confusinig 16:40:50 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> #1. Dont use cake as sign als 16:40:50 <PublicServer> <Anson> when you have a PBS and then some 1way after it, trains select where to go and then use the PBS to get a free path to that destination ... and if the path is not free, they wait even when there might be another (longer) path to their destination 16:40:56 *** uliko has joined #openttdcoop 16:40:56 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o uliko 16:41:16 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> That sounds like a problem I had with a station almost 16:41:26 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> Trains seemed to go to waiting lane behind station lane 16:41:32 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> instead of going to a free lane 16:41:57 <Sturmi> with pbs, a tain does only reserve the path until next signal 16:42:24 <Sturmi> if there is a train on a possible path, it counts more than a red signal 16:42:24 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> TAINS! 16:42:32 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> >Forget trains, tains is i n the shop 16:42:34 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> Ducktains 16:42:42 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> snailtains actually 16:42:45 <Sturmi> oh my god i made a typo 16:42:48 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> :D 16:42:50 <Sturmi> grow up andreas 16:42:58 <Sturmi> (not funny) 16:43:03 <PublicServer> <Anson> yes, sturmi, but to select which path to follow, it looks at the whole situation and sometimes waits for a free path to that destinatiion even when there would be another (longer) track to it too 16:43:05 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> Was to me :P 16:43:15 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> Grow up? Never! That means I will have to drive responsibly 16:43:20 <Sturmi> correct anson :) 16:44:39 <PublicServer> <Anson> look at Prefingway-on-sea Valley ... it had stuck trains again because of bad signaling 16:44:57 <PublicServer> <Anson> i tried to guess what you wanted to achieve there :-) 16:45:03 *** Jam35 has joined #openttdcoop 16:45:08 <PublicServer> <Anson> but signals were mesed up 16:45:27 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> signals wer only remains of some overflow logic 16:45:37 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> which i already changed 16:46:12 <PublicServer> <Anson> look at the station exit of the livestock part now ... i reverted my fix there 16:46:14 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> originally there were only normal block signals 16:46:28 <PublicServer> <Anson> a 2way combo instead of a 1way entry ... 16:46:42 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> noone likes to connect farms cause its to much work making the orders 16:46:54 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> i do like it :D 16:47:04 <PublicServer> <Anson> when the big SLH jammed, and the jam came to these tunnels, trains started being stuck in the reverser 16:47:06 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> and wood trains have even more orders :D 16:47:22 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> we should just use feeder trains and have a few farmgoods pickup stations 16:47:28 <Jam35> !Password 16:47:29 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> noone likes wood either 16:47:34 <Jam35> !password 16:47:34 <PublicServer> Jam35: gulled 16:47:35 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> you dont 16:47:54 <PublicServer> *** Jam35 joined the game 16:48:02 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> we have a Jam! 16:48:04 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> no. look at industries 16:48:11 <PublicServer> <Jam35> ello 16:48:13 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> noone likes 16:48:15 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> hi Jam :) 16:48:17 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> hello 16:48:29 <PublicServer> <Anson> like now 16:49:01 <PublicServer> <Anson> sturmi, do you see the problem ? .-) 16:49:11 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> yes 16:49:17 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> saw it 16:49:39 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> lets go back to normal signals 16:50:47 <PublicServer> <Anson> you see what happens with normal signals ? 16:51:01 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> twoways should do the job 16:51:23 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> arrgh 16:51:33 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> ok you won anson :D 16:51:51 <PublicServer> <Anson> it goes back and forth until one tunnels is free ... ugly looks, but works :-) 16:52:17 *** happy has quit IRC 16:52:59 <PublicServer> <Anson> now trains wait until one tunnel is free ... a bit slower, but looks better ... andanyway, it happens only if a jam blocks tunnels too long :-) 16:54:29 <PublicServer> <Anson> when i saw the problem, 90 trains were waiting in the overflow depots since a train was stuck in the reverser ... and everything caused by the jam from the bridge with the PBS signal and only 1way behind it :-) :-) :-) 16:54:44 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> ouch 16:55:37 <PublicServer> <Anson> i also changed the signals in the logic lines ... from 1way combo to 1way exit 16:56:39 <PublicServer> <Anson> thus trains from the depots were allowed to leave it more often, ignoring the exit signals at the end of the platforms 16:56:49 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> true 16:57:15 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> young padawan has still a lot to learn about signalling :D 16:57:49 <PublicServer> <Anson> hehe, those all are problems that i had to solve on my own network during the last few maps :-) 16:57:53 <PublicServer> <Jam35> just make the entry PBS and lose the exits :p 16:58:19 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> i havent played for half a year 16:58:23 <PublicServer> <Anson> on the next map, you explain it to the next one (fehlersturm?) :-) 16:58:33 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> :D 16:58:55 <PublicServer> <Anson> he is justz trying to learn about overflows and hidden depots :-) 17:00:41 <PublicServer> <Anson> Fehlersturm, are you still there ? :-) look at the hidden depots at !xxxx ... they are part of the advanced overflow that sturmi built :-) 17:00:59 <PublicServer> <Jam35> where am I looking? Prefingway-on-sea Valley? 17:01:02 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> k 17:01:06 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> better start with the simple overflow 17:01:13 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> on the other side of ML 17:01:26 *** Sianic has quit IRC 17:01:31 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> (less wtf) 17:01:55 *** tycoondemon2 has quit IRC 17:02:10 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttdcoop 17:02:14 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> is that to mitigate jams? 17:02:22 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> oh i see 17:02:28 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> one tuned farm 17:03:02 <Sturmi> if the production drops or the exit jams, such an overflow prevents jams on the entry 17:03:02 <PublicServer> <Anson> if trains queue up to !yy, they start using the reverser there and go to the overflow depots 17:03:20 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> yeah i see the "redstone" 17:03:30 <PublicServer> <Anson> advanced logic blocks them in front of that depot until there is no more train in the station and more trains are really needed 17:03:41 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> at the start thei station droppped production an jammed back until the ML (!) 17:03:45 <PublicServer> <Anson> too much minecraft :-) LOL 17:04:13 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> you think that is redstone? 17:04:19 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> Sturmi probably didnt pick red purr on accident either 17:04:53 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> now its yellowstone :p 17:04:57 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> :-) 17:05:52 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> i picked purr because it makes junctions better to see 17:06:07 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> color was by accident 17:06:18 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> accident or subconcious 17:06:30 <PublicServer> <Anson> but be careful when you use several different railtypes (including different colors of purr) for logic lines ... sometimes, they stop propagating signal states properly across railtype changes and thus the logic circuit stops working 17:06:40 <PublicServer> *** AndreasB has left the game (leaving) 17:06:44 <PublicServer> <Jam35> I think the release mechanism is flawed in that it will release trains when platforms are empty 17:06:56 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> as you see at !junction, you have to be careful how to place the logic lines 17:07:08 <PublicServer> <Jam35> it should probably just check the bay in front 17:07:14 <PublicServer> <Jam35> and have prio 17:07:52 <PublicServer> <Jam35> if the bay in front is free therefore there is space ahead 17:08:02 <PublicServer> <Jam35> not necessarily if the platforms are free 17:08:21 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> hm, sounds better 17:08:31 <PublicServer> <Anson> it now checks the entire block of all platforms ... possible since a PBS is used for entry 17:09:01 <PublicServer> <Jam35> but what about the space inbetween? 17:09:23 <PublicServer> <Anson> and when a train just barely left the last used platform, the logic enables the next train to come 17:09:45 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> you could have a train driving to the station in the time the others load. 17:09:54 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> now they have to finish loading. 17:10:02 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> then train starts from depot 17:10:04 <PublicServer> <Anson> yes, that's a small problem ... but when the station is completely empty, more than one train may be released without harm 17:11:34 <PublicServer> <Anson> but with those many tunnels, it would be difficult to get another lane near the entrance from the depots 17:12:36 <PublicServer> <Anson> earlier, a jam had caused 50 trains in each depot, and it took already quite some time to release them all ... with your suggestion of a prio and releasing them only one by one, it would have taken ages 17:13:35 <PublicServer> <Jam35> you are only releasing one by one? 17:13:48 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> ok, now it will release trains when the waiting bay is free 17:14:11 <PublicServer> <Anson> not currently, but if you add the full logic of reversers with prio etc, it would be one by one 17:14:34 <PublicServer> <Jam35> what? :) 17:15:05 <PublicServer> <Anson> what did you do ??? now they are released too often, and loop around the depot 17:15:07 <PublicServer> <Jam35> release would be no different except at a better time 17:15:23 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> they release when one is let into the station 17:15:37 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> i test jams suggestion 17:15:47 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> only raeding the waiting bay 17:15:49 <PublicServer> <Jam35> then something else gets there first 17:15:52 <PublicServer> <Anson> the incoming lane is already full, and still you release trains 17:15:54 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> which doesnt work as good 17:15:56 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> need combo/exit at waiting bay ? 17:16:14 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> are there new grfs where you can just have signals which are gates? logic gates seem a bit cubersome in their current implementation. atleast having a small inverter would be neat 17:16:24 <PublicServer> <Anson> when there are trains already waiting, no more trains may be released 17:16:36 <PublicServer> <Anson> only if the platforms are empty 17:18:04 <PublicServer> <Jam35> may I do something ? if you don't like it, put it back 17:18:10 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> ofc 17:18:16 <PublicServer> *** Jam35 has joined company #1 17:18:24 <PublicServer> <Anson> also something else was changed ... look at the depot, where a train is trying desperately to get out 17:18:34 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> yea thats weird 17:18:40 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> dunno what causes this 17:19:02 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> ah i found it 17:19:10 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> i movet the waypoint 17:19:16 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> to before the overflow 17:19:26 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> now it tries to reach teh waypoint 17:20:12 <PublicServer> <Anson> jam, if it doesn't work, YOU reverse the changes, ok ? :-) 17:20:50 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> he wants to add prio for incoming trains 17:20:58 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> have that on the other wheat overflow 17:21:08 *** eirc has joined #openttdcoop 17:21:28 <eirc> hi 17:21:31 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> i think he wants marmelade 17:21:38 <PublicServer> *** Djanxy has joined company #1 17:21:47 <eirc> !help 17:21:47 <PublicServer> eirc: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/IRC_Commands 17:21:59 <eirc> how do i join the public server? 17:22:14 <eirc> !password 17:22:14 <PublicServer> eirc: reamed 17:22:16 <eirc> :) 17:22:30 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> my signs - wont that make it release only when there are a tunnel free ? 17:23:08 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> might not be the optimal solution, just curious 17:23:27 <PublicServer> *** eirc joined the game 17:23:31 <PublicServer> <eirc> hi 17:24:25 <PublicServer> <Anson> Djanxy, you think too small ... the whole lane needs to be checked for trains 17:24:47 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> yeah i guess :D 17:25:25 <PublicServer> <Anson> including some part of the prio in front of the entire overflow loop, etc 17:26:01 <PublicServer> <Jam35> man no space 17:26:12 <PublicServer> <Anson> since PBS is used at the tunnels, a single check is good enouigh for the entire block which includes both tunnels :-) 17:26:14 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> whats your goal jam 17:26:42 <PublicServer> <Jam35> get a small prio there 17:27:50 <PublicServer> <Jam35> that should do it 17:28:12 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> no check at the station ? 17:28:22 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> apart from the tunnel at the depot at least :D 17:30:33 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> can someone nuke !this goldmine. 17:30:43 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> it is where i want to build my SLH 17:30:45 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> jam you forgot a pf trap 17:31:00 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> (added it) 17:31:43 <PublicServer> <Jam35> where sorry 17:31:50 <PublicServer> <Jam35> 2 way should be wnough 17:31:54 <PublicServer> <Jam35> *enough 17:32:13 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> no, apparently not 17:32:29 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> they didnt like the overflow and waited instead 17:32:55 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> see? 17:33:01 <PublicServer> <Jam35> mhm 17:33:28 <PublicServer> <Jam35> yes it just needs the 'arrow' 17:33:30 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> an arrow in the overflow tricks them 17:34:00 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> half arrow would be enough, but i like it complete^^ 17:34:50 <PublicServer> <Jam35> so same other side? 17:35:01 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> looks good 17:37:15 <PublicServer> *** Djanxy has joined spectators 17:37:31 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> please someone !this goldmine. it makes me so mad... probably fair punishment for terraforming so much. 17:38:06 <PublicServer> <Jam35> oh man, I dont have op sorry 17:38:16 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> wait for it to die 17:38:34 <PublicServer> <Jam35> sign it first is the way to go 17:38:40 <PublicServer> <Jam35> lesson learned :p 17:39:14 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> also drag able signing plox. 17:39:54 <PublicServer> <Jam35> they don't want people to spam that it multiplayer 17:39:58 <PublicServer> <Jam35> which is fair 17:40:57 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> did you terrafrom that whole hill? 17:41:23 <PublicServer> <Anson> lol ... train leaves the waiting bay of the overflow, joins the line, and 4 tiles later it splits to the reverser to go back to depot .... 17:43:14 <AndreasB> lol 17:43:51 <PublicServer> <Jam35> I would move the depot when it's empty 17:44:06 <PublicServer> <Jam35> (personal preference) 17:44:16 <PublicServer> <Jam35> so the bay is 1tl 17:44:23 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> yep 17:45:11 <PublicServer> <Jam35> nearly there 17:45:27 <PublicServer> <Jam35> needs entry signal 17:45:49 <PublicServer> <Jam35> (or not) :) 17:45:51 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> where? 17:45:58 <PublicServer> <Anson> train 1295 is in the overflow depot and loops around, since it wants to go to the WP and is lost 17:46:17 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> ship the wp order 17:46:23 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> skip 17:46:51 <PublicServer> <Jam35> yes as this is terminus should ideally have lost train escape 17:50:21 <PublicServer> <Jam35> for lost trains 17:50:39 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> there should be no lost trains here 17:50:45 <PublicServer> <Jam35> (should) 17:50:55 <PublicServer> <Jam35> when something gets disconected 17:51:05 <PublicServer> <Jam35> etc 17:51:19 <PublicServer> <Jam35> (and it was just used ) :) 17:51:38 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> didnt see it 17:53:13 *** retro|cz has quit IRC 17:53:32 <PublicServer> <Jam35> truth be known, it is probably wiser to expand the drop 17:53:34 <PublicServer> <Jam35> after all this 17:54:08 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> Fehlersturm did you terraform the whole hill? 17:54:16 <PublicServer> <Jam35> overflow should only be needed at pick ideally 17:55:29 <PublicServer> <Jam35> oh it is :) 17:55:36 <PublicServer> <Jam35> soz 17:57:32 <PublicServer> <Jam35> still needs expansion :p 18:00:16 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> no 18:00:23 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> really not needet 18:00:35 <Sturmi> on the ML its always needed 18:00:44 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> its actually quite to muc to do a full 7 split for the small sideline 18:00:58 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> well if you look closely the ml has 0 bridges 18:01:16 <Sturmi> ah the bridges are incoming from SL? 18:01:38 <PublicServer> *** Jam35 has joined spectators 18:02:19 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> but it doesnt fit like that anyway 18:02:33 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> why not 18:03:23 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> cause its unwieldy. its much better having 5 long bridges and always have two mls crossing diagonaly 18:04:09 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> btw, next time dont terraform the whole place... thats ugly. build with the terrain 18:04:39 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> or to speak with andreasB's words: its cheating 18:04:48 <V453000> dutch terrain 18:05:03 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> no, that would be below sea level :D 18:05:15 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> hi V 18:05:27 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> yeah well. i got a punishment goldmine for my terraforming 18:08:50 <PublicServer> *** Jam35 has left the game (general timeout) 18:08:51 <PublicServer> *** Jam35 has left the game (connection lost) 18:10:33 <V453000> !password 18:10:33 <PublicServer> V453000: eagles 18:10:55 <PublicServer> *** V453000 joined the game 18:10:56 <PublicServer> <V453000> heyoo 18:11:02 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> yoyo 18:12:16 <PublicServer> <V453000> I suppose the new nuts ships are a good feature? XD 18:15:34 <PublicServer> <V453000> uhmm 18:15:44 <PublicServer> <V453000> are you guys aware that other than wetrail tracks reduce train stats? 18:16:07 <Sturmi> in which way? 18:16:29 <PublicServer> <V453000> in the direct way 18:16:47 <PublicServer> <V453000> read changelog :) 18:16:57 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> do what? 18:17:09 <PublicServer> <V453000> ? 18:17:23 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> << cant read 18:17:41 <PublicServer> <V453000> well you are missing information on how nuts works not me :) 18:17:59 <PublicServer> <Anson> the BBH probably still needs testing, and that can be done easier with colored rails 18:18:39 <PublicServer> <Anson> too big a mess when all is watered :-) 18:18:47 <Sturmi> well, we (that is mfb in first place) want to keep the colors if the test fails and stuff needs to be changed 18:19:07 <PublicServer> <V453000> what test would fail, you connect stuff Y/N :D 18:19:18 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> lol 18:22:04 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> y of course. merge is just not needet right now. 18:22:26 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> also i get to build anotherone for the second SL :-) 18:22:48 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> why would you want to rebuild the split? 18:22:50 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> it works 18:23:04 <PublicServer> <eirc> ` 18:23:04 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> no not the split 18:23:14 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> the merge we are reworking here 18:23:28 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> ok and its already big enough 18:24:26 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> isnt it quite compact for a 7x7 merge? 18:24:36 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> 7x7?? 18:24:57 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> the sideline has max 3 lines 18:26:16 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> yes. ofc the 7 towards the SL. will be split from one SL 18:26:32 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> so whay do you need more? 18:27:07 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> there is another sideline. 18:27:19 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> but ofc i can just bridge the SL over 18:27:37 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> yes, keep it simple 18:27:48 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> no need for a twosided merge 18:33:06 <PublicServer> *** eirc has left the game (leaving) 18:35:50 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> gah 18:54:36 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> you rebuild ML i do SL connection? 18:54:44 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> y 19:02:02 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> ofc 19:03:14 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> still the same 19:03:44 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> well it will not be this high frequency. and they lose almost no speed from CL 1 19:04:19 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> they dont lose speed, but they lose speed 19:04:41 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> get used to proper building, makes it easier when it is needed 19:04:56 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> (says teh messy builder himself) 19:10:03 <PublicServer> *** V453000 has left the game (general timeout) 19:10:04 <PublicServer> *** V453000 has left the game (connection lost) 19:11:11 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> was good before 19:11:18 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> now it is too short 19:11:28 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> what? 19:11:34 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> cut it was CL 1 19:11:53 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> ok but bay too short 19:12:15 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> perfect for cl3 19:12:21 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> when pbs is used 19:13:10 <Fehlersturm> most likely Anson will come along and disaprove of our PBS usage anyway. 19:14:03 <Sturmi> can be done with block signals too but needs some changes in layout 19:14:05 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> why do you fill that up with signals so much? 19:14:21 <Sturmi> to fill bays once they are free 19:14:27 *** Yuuray has joined #openttdcoop 19:14:41 <Yuuray> !password 19:14:42 <PublicServer> Yuuray: palate 19:15:05 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> and with use of twoway signals at teh end of a pbs block obs works 19:15:07 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> i dont think we will have that kind of traffic here 19:15:27 <PublicServer> *** Yuuray joined the game 19:18:04 <PublicServer> *** Yuuray has left the game (leaving) 19:18:20 *** Yuuray has quit IRC 19:20:20 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> just a little bit better, but still not good 19:20:47 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> well i would remove the signals for the bays. 19:20:57 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> than they cannot all go to the same lane 19:24:23 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> heh, looks like that signal trick works :D 19:27:12 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> explain your prio. / i dont understand which lane gets prio 19:27:30 <AndreasB> Could an SRNW be "Go to ENTRY, go to DROP" ? 19:27:31 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> k 19:27:50 <AndreasB> nvm, il use orders 19:27:51 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> it prevents trains from B entering that lane, when a train comes from A 19:27:51 <AndreasB> lol 19:28:04 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> because C is too short 19:28:12 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> could also be a entry sugnal there instead of combo? 19:28:18 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> on B 19:28:22 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> ? 19:28:28 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> ofc 19:28:30 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> k 19:28:39 <Sturmi> Andreas our orders are not srnw 19:28:44 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> thought there was some specific magic to combo signal 19:28:58 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> there is some specific magic 19:29:08 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> as it is a combined entry/exit 19:29:15 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> but has no effect here 19:29:25 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> yes. but in this case that doesnt metter 19:29:27 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> ^^ 19:48:09 <tneo> !password 19:48:09 <PublicServer> tneo: malady 19:48:31 <PublicServer> *** tneo joined the game 19:51:23 <PublicServer> *** tneo has left the game (leaving) 19:51:34 <Sturmi> too much for you ?D 19:51:40 <tneo> where is ottdcoop heading with wet rails :-( 19:52:00 <V453000> fuck off tneo :) 19:52:11 <V453000> how do they influence openttdcoop at all 19:52:27 <tneo> why always so offensive V453000 what did I do to you ? 19:52:39 <V453000> im not offensive :) 19:55:06 <V453000> but perhaps you coming and always complaining how everything is terrible here is suggesting you assume I should be offensive 19:56:04 *** ODM has quit IRC 19:56:09 *** Jam35 has quit IRC 19:57:46 <tneo> that is most likely, because it has been a while since I played a game and have fond memories of playing and with those memories certain associations. So whenever I log in those associations aren't being met and leads to disappointment, which I express 19:58:03 *** Mark has quit IRC 19:58:20 <Sturmi> we cant do the same every time... would be boring 19:58:45 *** Mark has joined #openttdcoop 19:59:05 <V453000> things change as always, but saying wetrails are a key of disappointment is really wtf :) 20:01:38 <tneo> when i logged in it was more WTF!! :P 20:02:10 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> would it be less wtf with normal rail? 20:02:29 <tneo> yes, because that is what I was expecting not the canals :) 20:02:43 <V453000> :D 20:03:03 <V453000> since when is wtf bad though 20:03:04 <tneo> I've been out a while of the game and missed the latest developments, there is no blog about the wetrails, so I was surprised 20:03:28 <V453000> nothing to blog about regarding those :) 20:04:32 <V453000> the more wtf the better, that is basically the only way to new developments and new fun ... that hasnt changed ever. :) 20:04:43 <tneo> :) 20:05:16 *** uliko has quit IRC 20:05:18 <V453000> and yes I am responsible for the ultra visual wtf of watery rails, but dont blame openttdcoop on that :D 20:05:20 <tneo> when will a new commence, this is running on its end it seemed 20:05:39 <V453000> I actually am not too sure if this is the end 20:06:16 <tneo> ok, let me now by highlight please, so I can catch up again. Like to join in again :) 20:06:32 <V453000> excellent, I will if I can remember 20:06:47 <tneo> thx 20:06:52 <V453000> you can always start a new pro zone game if you want though, it is public now 20:06:56 <PublicServer> <Djanxy> RIP 20:07:26 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> yea, u fucked up :D 20:08:48 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> wtf? 20:20:23 <V453000> anyway gnite 20:20:28 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> nite 20:20:55 *** eirc has quit IRC 20:36:47 <BiG_MeEcH> goodnight V4530000! 20:37:43 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> could also use 2 blocksignals 20:37:51 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> yep 20:37:55 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> that is correct 20:39:01 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> where do your trains come from when they go to primaries? 20:39:19 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> farm from SLH01 20:39:29 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> nope 20:39:32 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> COAL FROM DROPXX 20:39:39 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> it comes from SLH-Drop 20:39:46 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> yeah thats what i meant 20:40:00 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> theres no way to your farm 20:40:06 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> from drop 20:41:00 *** Sian has joined #openttdcoop 20:44:32 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> cl 0,5 is till awful but works :D 20:44:43 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> *still 20:45:05 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> as you can see this is a smalltown sideline. they didtn even have money for 2 lines when they build it 20:45:15 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> :D 20:51:25 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> hm, funny overflow 20:51:35 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> but that depot is not hidden 20:52:01 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> aw crap you are right ofc 20:52:08 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> (deosnt matter in this game, but can do major wtf in other situations) 20:52:22 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> let me try something 20:52:32 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> now it is isnt it? 20:52:44 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> oh but impossible 90 deg turn 20:52:51 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> into station :-( 20:52:53 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> yes, but now the station is hidden :D 20:53:07 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> try away then 20:54:47 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> this could work 20:55:11 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> oh yeah 20:55:17 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> :-( 20:55:20 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> nope :( 20:56:27 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> still no 20:57:50 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> well we could move station EN by one and swap entry/exit lane then there would be enough space... 20:58:20 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> this would be the easiest solution 20:58:23 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> k 20:58:31 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> or no, wait... 20:58:49 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> there is another very compact way... 20:58:53 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> actually 20:59:08 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> no 20:59:11 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> forget it 20:59:25 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> look at plundhattan woods 20:59:40 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> ultracompact overflow 21:00:00 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> would fit between coalmine and printing works 21:00:10 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> oh isee 21:02:24 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> MAXIMUM!!!! 21:02:50 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> lets throw some trains at it :D 21:03:12 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> NOOOO!!! 21:03:24 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> why not? 21:03:36 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> well theyll be all in the buffer forever 21:03:38 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> its k 21:03:44 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> they won't 21:03:52 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> the coalmine produces enuff 21:04:20 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> works purrfectly 21:04:34 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> yes its nice and small 21:04:52 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> none of that 7x7 BBH nonsense :-) 21:05:06 *** Mark has quit IRC 21:05:10 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> good for small stations with small mount of traffic 21:05:17 <PublicServer> <Sturmi> +a 21:05:47 *** Mark has joined #openttdcoop 21:15:19 *** [1]Mark has joined #openttdcoop 21:16:47 *** valhallasw has quit IRC 21:19:51 *** Mark has quit IRC 21:19:51 *** [1]Mark is now known as Mark 21:22:17 *** Sian has quit IRC 21:25:40 *** Mark has quit IRC 21:26:20 *** Mark has joined #openttdcoop 21:33:46 <Sturmi> night 21:33:50 <PublicServer> *** Sturmi has left the game (leaving) 21:34:29 *** Sturmi has quit IRC 21:37:25 <PublicServer> *** Fehlersturm has left the game (general timeout) 21:37:25 <PublicServer> *** Fehlersturm has left the game (connection lost) 21:37:25 <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players) 21:39:10 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:46:20 <PublicServer> *** Djanxy has left the game (leaving) 21:53:47 *** Djanx has quit IRC 21:53:56 *** mfb- has joined #openttdcoop 21:53:56 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mfb- 21:54:01 <mfb-> hi 21:54:20 <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players) 21:54:20 <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players) 21:54:21 <PublicServer> *** mfb joined the game 22:00:44 <PublicServer> <mfb> slow server :( 22:02:37 <Fehlersturm> !password 22:02:37 <PublicServer> Fehlersturm: delves 22:03:03 <PublicServer> *** Fehlersturm joined the game 22:03:20 <PublicServer> <mfb> hmm !jams 22:03:38 <PublicServer> <mfb> what is the meaning of those sign at the lines coming from east? close to the hub 22:03:40 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> jop 22:04:06 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> oh that was in the planning of the new hub 22:04:12 <PublicServer> <mfb> new hub? 22:04:15 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> we used different nomenclature 22:04:25 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> SLH merger 22:04:32 <PublicServer> <mfb> ah 22:04:38 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> so we made a dictionary 22:04:41 <PublicServer> <mfb> 6 5 4 3 2 1 7... okay :D 22:04:59 <PublicServer> <mfb> you can delete signs with ctrl+click by the way 22:07:05 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> is sturmi still here? 22:08:19 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> holy shit rubberbanding 22:08:25 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> is this my slow CPU 22:08:35 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> or a server thing? 22:13:16 *** happy has joined #openttdcoop 22:17:07 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> hacker!! 22:17:13 <PublicServer> <mfb> :p 22:17:19 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> seems to work well though 22:17:33 <PublicServer> <mfb> the lines go in that direction anyway 22:18:01 <PublicServer> <mfb> forest died :( 22:20:45 <PublicServer> <mfb> fun fact: our hub is 4 times the smallest map size 22:20:55 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> :-) 22:26:45 *** happy has quit IRC 22:29:17 <PublicServer> <mfb> strange 22:29:24 <PublicServer> <mfb> if I open a train window, it is always pinned 22:37:33 <AndreasB> m,fg 22:37:35 <AndreasB> mfb- 22:37:38 <AndreasB> I have seen the light 22:38:34 <AndreasB> In my current game I did LR, and I had to make this iditoic s-turns, and splits to get stuff where I wanted. I have now seen that L_____R 22:38:37 <AndreasB> is the way to go 22:38:45 <AndreasB> 1+5+1 22:39:37 <PublicServer> <mfb> shouldn't be surprising 22:40:47 <AndreasB> :D 22:41:05 <AndreasB> How much nicer to have space to BEGIN WITH 22:41:15 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> i am not going to say i hat e WET rails. but i never know on what tile the signals are.. 22:41:17 <PublicServer> <Anson> why 1+5+1 ? ... that isn't a fixed amount, but depends on how you build and which TL you have 22:41:28 <AndreasB> AndreasB: Of course 22:41:37 <AndreasB> for me 1+5+1 works great 22:41:38 <AndreasB> TL3 22:41:48 <AndreasB> I think it would work great 22:44:12 <PublicServer> <Anson> with some trains you need less, with others you need more space 22:44:46 <PublicServer> <Anson> CL can vary, depending on length of wagons, railtype, tilt, etc 22:45:00 <PublicServer> <Anson> and thus the space between L and R varies too 22:45:18 <AndreasB> Never! 22:45:20 <AndreasB> : p 22:45:22 <AndreasB> ok maybe 22:45:39 <AndreasB> With TL3 I do CL3 22:45:46 <AndreasB> always. 22:45:55 <AndreasB> (almost always) 22:47:19 <PublicServer> <Anson> look at the animal trains ... they need no CL at all :-) 22:47:27 <AndreasB> They are fuhly 22:47:29 <AndreasB> fugly 22:47:50 <AndreasB> Would two TL4 trains deliver twice as fast as one TL8? 22:48:09 <PublicServer> <mfb> define "twice as fast" 22:48:20 <AndreasB> While the first TL4 goes away, TL8 would still be waiting 22:48:30 <AndreasB> Thus you get a faster, and more stable income 22:48:32 <PublicServer> <Anson> and on other train sets, you have shorter wagons, resulting in a lower CL too 22:48:34 <AndreasB> (For competition games) 22:48:42 <PublicServer> <mfb> and more costs 22:48:50 <AndreasB> Anson: All my wagons are 0.5 22:49:30 <PublicServer> <Anson> nuts was specifically created to avoid problems with those "uneven" wagon lengths 22:49:35 <AndreasB> I have a qustion 22:49:38 <AndreasB> questin 22:49:42 <AndreasB> say I wanted 2+2 22:49:55 <AndreasB> would you do 1+4+1+5+1+4+5 ? 22:50:06 <PublicServer> <mfb> no 22:50:10 <PublicServer> <mfb> too wide 22:50:27 <AndreasB> L_ _L_ _ _R_ _R 22:50:44 <AndreasB> Where do you normally need the space? 22:50:54 <PublicServer> <mfb> between the lines space is useful 22:51:00 <AndreasB> L_ _ LR_ _ R 22:51:06 <PublicServer> <mfb> no 22:51:09 <PublicServer> <mfb> LL_____RR 22:51:22 <AndreasB> So you would smack both lines next to eachother? 22:51:23 <PublicServer> <mfb> that is not so wide 22:51:24 <AndreasB> with no spacing 22:51:35 <PublicServer> <mfb> that is how we usually build mainlines 22:51:38 <PublicServer> <mfb> at hubs, the layout may vary 22:51:45 <AndreasB> Because you have space in middle 22:51:47 <AndreasB> and on sides 22:51:54 <AndreasB> thus you dont need space between LL and RR ? 22:52:11 <PublicServer> <mfb> at least not outside of hubs 22:52:52 <AndreasB> yeah, but I mean.. In theory you "have" _ _ _LL_ _ _RR_ _ _ 22:53:01 <AndreasB> with LL_____RR 22:53:06 <PublicServer> <mfb> sure 22:53:16 <PublicServer> <mfb> but the first and last ____ can get other constructions 22:53:26 <AndreasB> SLH? 22:53:36 <PublicServer> <mfb> primary industries, whatever 22:53:43 <AndreasB> aye 22:54:04 <AndreasB> As I said, I have been doing stupid stuff to get R under L 22:54:15 <AndreasB> With L_____R 22:54:20 <AndreasB> Its easy as pie 22:54:28 <AndreasB> Just break off to left for example, double tunnel 22:54:32 <AndreasB> Shazam! 22:54:56 <AndreasB> While I have been going off to right, looping around, and going under both 22:55:12 <AndreasB> I mean, what the hell was I thinking? Thats just plain stupid 22:56:54 <PublicServer> <Anson> it is always a matter of situation ... eg on the welcome server, you probably won't have enough space to do that L___L_____R___R ... and also not on hilly terrain etc 22:57:21 <BiG_MeEcH> if anything there would be a space between LL and RR 22:57:35 <AndreasB> how big is it? 22:57:37 <BiG_MeEcH> its easier to double bridge over 1 line 22:57:38 <AndreasB> welcome server 22:57:44 <AndreasB> I'm thinking about going 2048*2048 now 22:57:59 <PublicServer> <Anson> and when you expand that system to triple lines, where do you add those third L and R rails ? outside, to create L___L___L_____R___R___R ? :-) 22:58:03 <mfb-> 1024x512 or something like that 22:58:11 <AndreasB> Anson: dayumn 22:58:27 <AndreasB> Thats a LOT of space 22:58:34 <BiG_MeEcH> if anything you could do LLRR then when you would have a SLH or big merge or whatever you could expand it out to have room in the middle to build 22:58:36 <AndreasB> but 22:58:44 <BiG_MeEcH> otherwise its not really nessesarry 22:58:48 <AndreasB> L__L_____R__R 22:58:54 <AndreasB> Now you have room for stuff 22:59:06 <AndreasB> For an balancer you would need 3 _ right? 22:59:12 <BiG_MeEcH> most prefer LL_____RR 22:59:22 <AndreasB> Where do you put balancer? :P 22:59:34 <PublicServer> <Anson> i think what mech said : keep the lines closer together on long distances, add space when building hubs 22:59:34 <AndreasB> Start dealing with S-turns again? 22:59:42 <AndreasB> yeah true 22:59:43 <BiG_MeEcH> yeah, what anson said 22:59:48 <AndreasB> makes sense 22:59:49 *** condac has quit IRC 22:59:51 <BiG_MeEcH> can always make the exit larger for balancing 22:59:55 <mfb-> there is absolutely no point in "balancing" a mainline 22:59:57 <BiG_MeEcH> or merges 22:59:58 <mfb-> balance merges 23:00:02 *** condac has joined #openttdcoop 23:00:04 <mfb-> if nothing merges, there is nothing to balance 23:00:20 <AndreasB> if you have an SL going onto ML 23:00:45 <AndreasB> I would want those trains coming off there being balanced onto ML 23:00:51 <PublicServer> <mfb> sure 23:00:53 <PublicServer> <mfb> that is a merge 23:00:58 <AndreasB> That is what I ment 23:01:07 <AndreasB> You dont balance an balanced ML ? 23:01:18 <AndreasB> a rebalancer, haha 23:01:24 <PublicServer> <mfb> there is no point in "balancing" straight lines 23:01:42 <PublicServer> <mfb> if the trains can arrive at that point, they can leave without any "balancing" as well 23:01:48 <PublicServer> <mfb> as a straight line has the same capacity everywhere 23:02:08 <AndreasB> eh 23:02:17 <AndreasB> I didnt understand that 23:02:31 <AndreasB> If you have an SL coming joining ML 23:02:34 <PublicServer> <mfb> well, a line cannot carry more than 100% of its capacity 23:02:36 <AndreasB> and you have 2+2 23:02:42 <PublicServer> <mfb> yeah I fully agree for merges 23:02:47 <AndreasB> Sure you would want to balance it between those two? 23:02:54 <AndreasB> Surely* 23:02:56 <PublicServer> <mfb> but do the balancing at the hub 23:02:59 <PublicServer> <mfb> where the joins are 23:03:01 <AndreasB> Well yes 23:03:02 <AndreasB> of course 23:03:06 <AndreasB> where else? 23:03:37 <AndreasB> !password 23:03:38 <PublicServer> AndreasB: squawk 23:03:50 <mfb-> some players build stupid stuff like this: http://wiki.openttd.org/Advanced_signalling_examples 23:03:56 <PublicServer> *** AndreasB joined the game 23:03:58 <mfb-> first image 23:04:05 <AndreasB> what does it do? 23:04:07 <AndreasB> rebalance? 23:04:19 <mfb-> nothing. it has some limited applications with breakdowns 23:04:24 <mfb-> but even there, the design is crap 23:04:32 <AndreasB> eh 23:04:35 <AndreasB> so it doesnt do anything? 23:04:49 <AndreasB> If you have 75% load on one line 23:04:52 <AndreasB> and 25% on another 23:04:56 <mfb-> it does nothing useful 23:05:00 <AndreasB> Why wouldnt you try to make it 50/50 ? 23:05:00 <mfb-> it slows trains 23:05:14 <mfb-> why would you? just leads to trains waiting somewhere 23:05:37 <AndreasB> :S 23:05:43 <AndreasB> why would they wait? 23:06:18 <AndreasB> Optimal pre-signaled station 23:06:24 <AndreasB> is that a good way to build a station? 23:06:34 <PublicServer> <Anson> "capacity is the same everywhere on a straight line" ... true, if it is absolutely straight, but can vary if it goes up and down, has heavy trains which don't go full speed everywhere, etc 23:06:36 <mfb-> forget all designs there 23:06:49 <mfb-> forget the openttd wiki for any track/signal layouts 23:06:51 <mfb-> really... 23:07:00 <AndreasB> Capacity is the same everyewhere on a straight line.. 23:07:09 <AndreasB> So if one straight line is at 75... 25.. bla bla 50.. 23:07:14 <mfb-> the Optimal pre-signaled station is not completely crap, but it is not good either 23:07:35 <mfb-> <AndreasB> why would they wait? <- wait for another train to change the line 23:07:41 <mfb-> as trains don't think ahead 23:07:51 <mfb-> 75/25 is perfectly fine 23:07:51 <AndreasB> Surely you can make it switch only if there is room? 23:07:56 <mfb-> both are <100%, done 23:08:00 <mfb-> not really 23:08:09 <mfb-> at least not with reasonable effort 23:08:24 <mfb-> it is possible, but you don't want to use half the map just for logic for those switches, right? 23:08:54 <mfb-> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/File:PZG13shifters.png those shifters (top left corner) can do that 23:09:10 <mfb-> but they rarely shift if the trains are not as aligned as they were in PZ13 23:09:12 <PublicServer> <Anson> never change a working system ... same applies to a line : when trains work on the line at one point, there is no need to change something, rebalance etc 23:10:13 <PublicServer> <Anson> only difference might be when trains slow down sometime, eg a long climb with heavy trains ... but then the same still applies, with the addition "capacity is measured at the worst spot" 23:10:52 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> Can you look at "!!Stupid design" ? 23:11:02 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> Would that be stupid? 23:11:16 <PublicServer> <Anson> thus a line with such a climb would have 100% at that spot and maybe 75% everywhere else ... then the whole line should be balanced so that it starts right away with 75% only and not 100% 23:12:04 <PublicServer> <Anson> what are those diagonals supposed to do ??? 23:12:37 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> which ones? 23:12:57 <PublicServer> <Anson> ah, prio ... I'm no longer used to those small signals :-) LOL 23:13:15 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> Prio on each side 23:13:22 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> Would a train join either side? 23:13:45 <PublicServer> <Anson> it is stupid 23:13:48 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> why 23:14:31 <PublicServer> <Anson> trains would wait at the sign and when one of the ML lanes is free they would join ANY random of them, not that one which became free 23:14:42 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> oh 23:15:00 <PublicServer> <Anson> you also have created one large block, and thus trains on one side of the ML would block trains on the other 23:15:38 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> I guess thats no better 23:15:46 <PublicServer> <Anson> a block is a series of rails which have no signals in between, no matter whether trains can reach those other rails or not 23:15:57 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> how obut now 23:16:27 <PublicServer> <Anson> why do you have a large gap between signal and mainline ? 23:16:45 <PublicServer> <Anson> (marked in red) 23:17:09 <mfb-> ? 23:17:17 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> now then 23:17:38 <AndreasB> also Anson 23:17:52 <PublicServer> <mfb> I tested that, it occurs frequently 23:17:54 <AndreasB> It is my experience that the entry signal cant be that far down, it will have 0 time to accelerate 23:18:01 <PublicServer> <mfb> you can fix it, but then you still have just one train waiting there 23:18:11 <PublicServer> <mfb> while both mainlines might be free 23:18:18 <PublicServer> <mfb> so you are wasting opportunities to join 23:18:41 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> So how would you make 1 train choose first available 23:18:55 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> I dont want it to wait to join just one of them 23:19:11 <mfb-> Anson if slopes are an issue, double the line there (as with bridges) 23:19:29 <mfb-> or make a signal every tile, as done in this game (hub->west) 23:19:45 <PublicServer> <mfb> well you can fix the waiting issue 23:19:52 <PublicServer> <mfb> with a fail-safe mechanism 23:20:10 <PublicServer> <mfb> like that for TL4 23:20:16 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> what would that do? 23:20:31 <PublicServer> <mfb> it makes sure the joining train has green once it reaches the combo signal 23:20:37 <PublicServer> <mfb> as it makes its own green 23:20:47 <PublicServer> <mfb> even if a ML train enters the prio in the wrong moment 23:20:48 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> so.. ML would slow down? 23:20:57 <PublicServer> <mfb> not if the prio is long enough 23:21:20 <PublicServer> <mfb> the train will still wait at the entry signal 23:21:30 <PublicServer> <mfb> until a ML is free 23:21:40 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> So this is a slow join if ML is at near capacity? 23:21:50 <PublicServer> <mfb> not if the prio is long enough :D 23:21:56 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> haha 23:21:58 <PublicServer> <mfb> but then you'll hardly have any trains joining 23:22:09 <PublicServer> <mfb> as your trains are not aligned properly 23:22:12 <PublicServer> <mfb> they have random distances 23:22:22 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> This is the length of this prio? 23:22:30 <PublicServer> <mfb> to get a "full" mainline, you cannot make the prio too long 23:22:36 <PublicServer> <mfb> right 23:22:51 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> So it has to be long enugh for joining tain to speed up 23:22:58 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> but short enough to fill up ML 23:23:08 <PublicServer> <mfb> somewhere between those values :p 23:23:19 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> In a single join 23:23:53 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> Where would one put entry signal? 23:24:39 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> here 23:24:41 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> here 23:24:53 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> What is your experience there? 23:25:39 <PublicServer> <mfb> directly at the ML 23:25:46 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> as close as possible 23:25:48 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> in other words 23:25:54 <PublicServer> <mfb> otherwise you should shift the prio detection 23:26:00 <PublicServer> <mfb> or the acceleration is pointless 23:26:10 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> shift it? 23:26:16 <PublicServer> <mfb> but directly at the ML works better in most cases 23:26:46 <PublicServer> <mfb> more like that 23:26:48 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> o.O 23:26:58 <PublicServer> <mfb> because the train needs some time to speed up 23:27:13 <PublicServer> <mfb> = some tiles journey of ML trains 23:27:26 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> hm 23:27:28 <PublicServer> <mfb> but this fails if the train does not stop at the entry signal 23:27:31 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> But that would be better, wouldnt it? 23:27:41 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> aha 23:28:04 <PublicServer> <mfb> sure, you can add a train stopper 23:28:18 <PublicServer> <mfb> +2 trains, more logic lines, ... 23:28:21 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> lol 23:28:28 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> that sounds complicated 23:28:38 <PublicServer> <Anson> problem with acceleration : it only works very good if all trains have same type, same length, same cargo, and also same loading percentage (full, empty, whatever) 23:28:48 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> o.O 23:29:00 <mfb-> yeah, that is another issue 23:29:09 <mfb-> keep acceleration in mind for prio length 23:29:16 <mfb-> but don't rely on some preacceleration 23:29:24 <mfb-> unless you know exactly what you are doing 23:29:36 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> How would you merge a train onto RR there? 23:30:02 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> something like that? 23:30:33 <PublicServer> <mfb> like that, for example 23:30:56 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> but 23:31:02 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> priority for ML ? 23:31:22 <PublicServer> <mfb> sure 23:31:53 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> :O 23:31:56 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> That was fast 23:31:58 <PublicServer> <mfb> that would be perfect for TL5 (but I would make the prio longer) 23:32:13 <PublicServer> <mfb> maybe like that 23:32:19 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> damn 23:32:53 <PublicServer> <mfb> typical TL3-solution 23:32:55 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> dang, you have done this before 23:32:57 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> lol 23:33:27 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> right? 23:33:54 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> what does that horsehoe do?= 23:34:08 <PublicServer> <mfb> it makes the bridge possible 23:34:20 <PublicServer> <mfb> or what do you mean? 23:34:34 <PublicServer> <mfb> ah. longer prio 23:34:52 <PublicServer> <mfb> same concept 23:34:58 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> longer? 23:34:59 <PublicServer> <Anson> i just marked the waiting bays in yellow ... they should be long enough for one train, but not much longer than needed 23:35:12 <PublicServer> <mfb> longer than two signals on the ML 23:35:59 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> So train comes in 23:36:09 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> Choses bay for L1 or L2 23:36:19 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> or R in this case 23:36:26 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> Then waits to join ? 23:38:56 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> umm, you said it makes it longer 23:39:16 <mfb-> Then waits to join ? <- right 23:39:22 <mfb-> umm, you said it makes it longer <- the prio? sure 23:39:24 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> has anyone a idea how i could make !flipflop work with TL3 23:39:26 <PublicServer> <AndreasB> Is the green the pri now? 23:39:28 <mfb-> it is the same thing we had before 23:39:34 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> oh hang on 23:39:42 <mfb-> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Priorities 23:39:46 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> i think i have one myself 23:39:58 <AndreasB> looking 23:40:46 <PublicServer> <mfb> one side is not a twoway 23:41:08 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> thats on purpose 23:41:15 <PublicServer> <mfb> okay 23:41:21 <PublicServer> <mfb> interesting idea 23:41:49 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> just TL3 is to short. top branch works 23:42:03 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> ill just need to use both diagonals for the train lines 23:43:45 <PublicServer> <mfb> :D 23:44:11 <PublicServer> <Anson> what are you speaking about ? 23:44:31 <PublicServer> <Anson> i never can follow people when they jump to other locations .... 23:44:38 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> the flip flop which is in ruins atm 23:45:09 <PublicServer> <Anson> ah, flipflop ... i was still at the merges 23:47:42 *** retro|cz has joined #openttdcoop 23:49:51 <PublicServer> <Anson> hehe, is that a tri-state flip flop, and the train just did the flup ? :-) 23:50:13 <PublicServer> <mfb> I don't think you can build a tri-state flipflop like that 23:50:52 <PublicServer> <mfb> every train sets all inputs to green 23:50:58 <PublicServer> <mfb> and then one of them to red 23:51:28 <PublicServer> <mfb> somewhere we had V's split... 23:51:54 <PublicServer> <mfb> it checks if all branches are red 23:51:57 <PublicServer> <mfb> and then gives green 23:52:07 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> there you go 23:52:19 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> i just had one combo signal wrong way aroung 23:53:27 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> not my idea sadly 23:53:45 <PublicServer> <mfb> wtf 23:53:51 <PublicServer> <mfb> ah 23:53:54 <PublicServer> <mfb> the lower line is always green 23:53:56 <PublicServer> <mfb> :D 23:55:02 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> the 2 forests are still there 23:55:08 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> nice 23:55:59 <PublicServer> <Fehlersturm> logic gates > making orders twice