Log for #openttdcoop on 26th October 2013:
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09:01:47  <Mark> !password
09:01:47  <PublicServer> Mark: deduct
09:01:55  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
09:01:55  <PublicServer> *** Mark joined the game
09:03:37  <Mark> !unpause
09:03:37  <PublicServer> *** Mark has unpaused the server. (Use !auto to set it back.)
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09:18:18  <PublicServer> <Mark> omfg
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09:50:45  <V453000> vytautas is earth's juice
09:50:46  <V453000> fuck yeah
09:51:59  <Mark> what :D
09:52:17  <PublicServer> <Mark> someone needs to teach scshunt a lesson or two
09:52:27  <PublicServer> <Mark> thought i was pretty clear yesterday
09:52:49  <V453000>
09:52:49  <Webster> Title: Vytautas Mineral Water! It's Earth's Juice!, Length: 2m 31s, Views: 2698313, Likes: 29527
09:52:59  <Mark> not that again
09:53:14  <V453000> yes that again
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12:09:34  <Jam35> !password
12:09:34  <PublicServer> Jam35: ganged
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13:32:15  <Vinnie_nl> !password
13:32:15  <PublicServer> Vinnie_nl: nilled
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14:10:16  <scshunt> !passworsd
14:10:18  <scshunt> !password
14:10:18  <PublicServer> scshunt: stylus
14:10:26  <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players)
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14:10:27  <PublicServer> *** scshunt joined the game
14:10:31  <scshunt> !players
14:10:34  <PublicServer> scshunt: Client 297 (Orange) is scshunt, in company 1 (Plonbourne Transport)
14:10:34  <PublicServer> scshunt: Client 293 (Orange) is Jam35, in company 1 (Plonbourne Transport)
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14:44:19  <scshunt> @gap 3
14:44:19  <Webster> scshunt: For Trainlength of 3: <= 9 needs 2, 10 - 14 needs 3, 15 - 19 needs 4.
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17:11:07  <jrambo> hehehe interesting game on n-ice servers... n-ice vs. nova vs. btpro, 4 bil goal... :)
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17:26:56  <V453000> noobs vs noobs :(
17:26:57  <V453000> :)
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18:01:57  <jrambo> solo plays :P
18:02:26  <jrambo> V, when are you gonna play with us on a goal server? :D
18:07:41  <V453000> goal server? never?
18:09:43  <jrambo> we need a new point of view
18:10:04  <V453000> well you probably wont get one on a goal server :)
18:10:34  <jrambo> well, like it or not, it is still an aspect of this game :P
18:10:44  <V453000> I did not deny that
18:10:50  <V453000> it is just limited and dumb :) all I am saying
18:10:59  <jrambo> and by saying "we" i mean "us on goal servers", not "us on #openttdcoop" :P
18:11:08  <V453000> I figured that
18:12:37  <jrambo> is starcraft dumb?
18:12:50  <V453000> no because the game is built for that :)
18:13:07  <V453000> openttd isnt built for competing
18:13:15  <V453000> and if it is, it is majorly failing in that area :)
18:13:52  <jrambo> well, if that's true, i fail at life xD
18:13:52  <V453000> its like if you competed in minecraft or argued what kind of music is better
18:15:29  <jrambo> then i definitely fail at life, because i do argue which kind of music is better
18:15:47  <V453000> it wasnt a good comparison :D
18:16:06  <V453000> look, playing openttd for any kind of comparison means you need to be able to describe "success" if your network in numbers
18:16:20  <V453000> which you cannot because there are so many complex and amazing possibilities
18:17:33  <V453000> if/of :)
18:17:43  <jrambo> well, i understand your point of view
18:18:15  <V453000> no, otherwise you could not disagree with it :)
18:18:21  <jrambo> but i draw a strict line between building "for numbers", and between creative building
18:18:27  <jrambo> that is not necessarily disagreeing :P
18:20:09  <V453000> cant say I know what you mean by that
18:20:34  <V453000> if you mean that building for profit etc is not creative, yeah : D
18:21:30  <jrambo> well... :)
18:21:51  <jrambo> i assume you know how city-builder works, so...
18:22:17  <jrambo> but in case you don't - it's quick and dirty
18:22:35  <V453000> yes, with basically zero complexity
18:22:40  <jrambo> deliver what's asked from you as fast as you can do, and don't fail on the way
18:24:12  <V453000> how do you get better at citybuilder after playing it for 2 days
18:24:16  <V453000> you dont
18:24:25  <jrambo> you do
18:26:26  <jrambo> but i agree with you on something - openttd is not built for competition. it lacks some factors that strategy games have...
18:26:51  <V453000> it lacks every factor for competition - valid comparison
18:27:55  <jrambo> well...
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18:28:24  <V453000> not well :D
18:28:26  <V453000> thats just a fact
18:29:25  <V453000> and as person who can build on openttdcoop level can (after some short practice/realizing what is main focus) demolish people on any goal server, I am not afraid to say that goal servers are not a very potential way to play
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18:31:39  <jrambo> and if two openttdcoop level players played, which one would win?
18:32:00  <V453000> neither
18:32:28  <Taede> they would cooperate
18:32:55  <V453000> not necessarily
18:33:34  <V453000> point is that to win a goal game you do not need good openttd knowledge
18:33:53  <V453000> so it cant be a victory for a player with knowledge
18:34:06  <V453000> yes, one would have higher numbers which mean nothing.
18:34:44  <jrambo> agreed. you don't need a good networking knowledge to win
18:34:48  <Taede> :)
18:34:53  <jrambo> but there is still something that separates those who win
18:35:16  <V453000> fast clicking and trivial decisions to make the most cost efficient solution
18:35:23  <V453000> cute
18:35:32  <jrambo> be it speed, be it knowledge... concentrations, quick thinking, multitasking...
18:35:44  <V453000> trivial on the scale of what can openttd offer
18:36:09  <jrambo> by the same logic, weightlifting is trivial to what gymnastics offer
18:36:22  <jrambo> or tennis is trivial to what basketball offers
18:36:28  <V453000> not comparable at all
18:37:08  <jrambo> but how? weightlifting is a fairly linear sport. and gymnastics is art in some ways...
18:37:37  <V453000> and uncomparable
18:37:38  <V453000> yeah
18:38:31  <jrambo> what i am getting at is this; goal servers are not creatively challenging, but are mentally (and perhaps physically) challenging
18:38:38  <jrambo> different aspect of the game
18:38:58  <V453000> aspect of the game you can learn quickly
18:39:15  <jrambo> but master slowly?
18:39:24  <V453000> master quickly.
18:39:48  <jrambo> you are saying that because most of CV & CB people are noobs
18:39:59  <jrambo> which is logical, since openttd is basically an unpopular game
18:40:36  <V453000> you are trying to achieve a perfect profit solution, that is by design just trying to get the best out of simple mathematical function about profit (more cargo, more distance, more profit)
18:40:50  <V453000> trying to build something better in the terms of creating better networks
18:41:03  <V453000> takes a lot more time to improve and master
18:41:14  <V453000> nobody has "mastered" that yet after years of cooperative effort
18:41:38  <V453000> no idea what CV and CB is
18:42:08  <jrambo> valid argument. or would be if i claimed that goal servers are comparable to "creative networking" servers :P
18:42:30  <jrambo> i don't care about CV (company value) games much, i.e. achieving a perfect profit solution
18:42:57  <V453000> im not comparing I am declaring them short term focused - limited - and dumb :)
18:42:59  <jrambo> mostly i care about CB (city builder) games - deliver quickly and timely, have a train limit, balance to get the best out of it
18:43:44  <V453000> look, this discussion wont get anywhere :)
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18:44:24  <jrambo> well ok, i am not trying to "convert" you or anything
18:44:50  <jrambo> i look at this as a friendly disscussion with a player i respect
18:44:51  <V453000> my point of view is based on so long process of getting there that you probably wont be able to influence or skew it, sorry :)
18:44:59  <V453000> friendly discussion it is :)
18:45:41  <jrambo> on an off note; the problem with disscussions is that people are trying to influence or skew
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18:46:18  <jrambo> it would be fair to enter the disscussion with belief that you can learn a new point of view, instead of entering it with intent to force it upon another
18:46:20  <V453000> interesting off note
18:46:40  <jrambo> but i'm not going to bore others with philosophy :P
18:46:41  <V453000> well im basically saying that the new point of view would not give me anything XD
18:47:12  <jrambo> i did not imply you
18:47:17  <jrambo> :D
18:47:48  <V453000> kay :)
18:48:07  <jrambo> if i did, i would tell openly
18:48:20  <jrambo> but in everyday stuff... i think about that a lot
18:48:54  <V453000> ._.
18:49:16  <V453000> HA, okay lets conclude with argument that I wont play on goal servers because you dont use NUTS
18:49:18  <V453000> there, solved
18:49:22  <V453000> :D
18:50:02  <jrambo> heheh okay
18:50:24  <jrambo> but in my long term plans, i think about including NUTS (and some other stuff) in those games :P
18:50:36  <V453000> fuck :-D
18:51:37  <jrambo> i got to go and have dinner, talk to you again soon
18:51:48  <jrambo> (but don't worry, not about playing on goal servers :P)
18:52:14  <V453000> :D cya
18:52:17  <V453000> njoy your meal
18:53:21  <jrambo> thanks
18:53:23  <jrambo> :)
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21:46:17  <phatmatt> cb is cool. the speed required, and the amount of windows you have to have open so that the instant something is ready to be done, it is done
21:46:35  <phatmatt> and yes, it is optimizing for a 'unnatural' solution. but metagaming is just as much fun too
21:46:53  <phatmatt> this is, of course, assuming you're playing against a decent player.
21:48:35  <phatmatt> so yes, it turns into more of a twitch game, and that isn't for everyone.
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