Log for #openttdcoop on 22nd November 2013:
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00:06:16  <Guest6546> !download win64
00:06:16  <PublicServer> Guest6546:
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00:29:53  <JoeSchmoe> any chance for a reset of the welcome server
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06:16:33  <Djanxy> !dl win64
06:16:33  <PublicServer> Djanxy:
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06:21:10  <Djanxy> MEOW
06:24:34  <V453000> FUCK MEOW
06:24:42  <Sian> !password
06:24:43  <PublicServer> Sian: browns
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06:29:31  <Sian> hmm ... probably to mountainous for an idea i have to work properly
06:30:08  <Djanxy> what's that ?
06:30:41  <Djanxy> i'm guessing it's mountainous to take advantage of the new trains/purr
06:30:54  <V453000> sorry but unless the plan puses MEOW to the max, your plan has little chance to win ;)
06:31:17  <V453000> though at the same time meow usage isnt very dependent on plan
06:31:30  <V453000> so we might just start randomly building tomorrow morning
06:33:24  <Sian> isolated L_L_L_L* around the edge of the map with MainLineStations (with bypass for trains not stopping, with conditional moves) with feeder stations collecting everything in the vicinity and bringing it to its destination
06:36:03  <V453000> yeah that isnt a very good plan in general
06:36:11  <V453000> !dl win64
06:36:11  <PublicServer> V453000:
06:36:43  <V453000> if it includes "feeders" especially in combination with "collecting everything" you can easily replace "transfer stations" by "BBHs" and you get a ton of a better game already
06:37:30  <Sian> my reason for the idea with feeders is a vecihle for experimenting with MLS
06:38:33  <V453000> that doesnt make any sense
06:39:06  <Sian> MainLine Stations?
06:40:39  <V453000> why have a feeder
06:41:40  <Sian> for testing MLS?
06:43:11  <V453000> that doesnt explain anything
06:43:18  <V453000> why should feeder stations "test MLs"
06:43:28  <Sian> think i need to cook a map to explain it
06:43:49  <V453000> not if you have a logical explanation
06:44:10  <Sian> my strong points aren't in explaining in the first place so ...
06:44:40  <V453000> just justifying your argument would suffice
06:44:49  <V453000> aka why do you think a feeder station "tests ML"
06:44:53  <V453000> or in what way
06:45:01  <V453000> or anything at all
06:45:11  <Sian> to see how much pressure MLS can handle
06:45:18  <Djanxy> think he means mainline stations, not ML's
06:45:34  <Sian> exactly
06:45:35  <V453000> and network without feeders doesnt "test" pressure?
06:46:04  <Sian> MainLineStations ... not MainLine'S
06:46:09  <V453000> right
06:46:17  <V453000> still dont see the relation
06:46:48  <V453000> station is a station, you put trains to it, they jam or not. How does a transfer influence that in any way
06:46:54  <V453000> it is a lot more important how trains perform in hubs
06:47:03  <Sian> *headdesk*
06:47:13  <V453000> in other words it is equally important but hubs are harder to build
06:48:28  <Sian> the important part aren't transfering goods, the important part is if its possible to build viable Stations ON the MainLine and not disconnected via 2 Junctions
06:49:24  <V453000> ON or AWAY from the mainline is only question of positioning not system
06:49:31  <V453000> transfering or direct delivery is
06:51:30  <Sian> forget everything i said (or you beleive i said) but this ... i sugests using a map (not this one, probably to mountainous) for a setup with Stations ON the mainline, and not off it ... using feeders and transfers was merely a suggested vehicle to do it
06:52:09  <V453000> how is a map relevant to systematic usefulness of a transfer system
06:53:41  <Sian> my aestetic opinion are against overly massive terraforming
06:54:42  <V453000> look imagine you have a flat map and just tell me why is it good to have a station on the mainline and why is it good to use a transfer system
06:54:47  <V453000> because both things are quite pointless
06:56:08  <Sian> lets reverse that one for a second ... why is it bad to have a station on the mainline if a proper setup could be found?
06:56:26  <V453000> expandability? flexibility?
06:56:35  <V453000> fuctionalities like proper merging?
06:56:40  <V453000> all to all choices for pickups?
06:56:53  <V453000> why place all that as close to possible to ML to have less space?
06:57:36  <Sian> future PAX games
06:57:58  <V453000> oh so now we are talking about pax suddenly
06:57:59  <V453000> okay
06:58:48  <V453000> not to mention that you didnt quite answer any of the points you asked about why is it bad
07:01:26  <Sian> given as of how i imagen it, expanding it would be a question of sequencing the station across different parts of the ML, which would account for the flexibility as well ... Merging would be done with regular balancers
07:02:32  <V453000> im not sure what do you imagine for regular balancers
07:02:35  <Sian> pickups is why i suggest bypasses for trains not having to stop (and making it so trains default to that unless they have to enter the station) and giving them Conditional orders which say that if you're full you go directly to station XYZ
07:02:41  <V453000> but I fear you want to suggest "no balancing"
07:03:17  <V453000> sounds wtf enough
07:03:26  <Sian> if i would suggest "no balancing" i would have said "no balancing" ... but i didn't
07:05:03  <V453000> well then what is regular balancing
07:05:07  <V453000> ps balacing is a really bad term
07:05:45  <Sian> say LL->LL 'mergers'
07:05:58  <V453000> never heard of that
07:06:18  <Sian> =x= ...
07:06:25  <Sian> in principle
07:07:37  <V453000> what is that
07:07:47  <V453000> can you point it out in junctionary or something?
07:07:56  <V453000> or use the terms used there to describe a merger
07:08:04  <V453000> or at the wiki page about merging tracks
07:09:00  <Sian> i think we're talking past each other big time
07:09:29  <V453000> I am simply asking about what kind of merger you mean
07:09:31  <V453000> nothing else
07:09:35  <Sian>
07:09:50  <V453000> this is not a merger this is a choice
07:09:54  <V453000> and a pointless one, too
07:10:19  <V453000> it doesnt merge anything, outputting tracks equals incoming so why built it in the first place
07:11:14  <Sian> then call it a choice and not a merger ... using CHOICES and not whatever else i've mistakenly called it to balance the various tracks of the ML against each other
07:11:54  <V453000> the very idea of "balancing tracks on the ML against each other" is as wrong as it can get
07:12:27  <Sian> ... you know what ... nevermind ... if its me unable to explain myself properly or you not wanting to understand i don't know ... nevermind
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07:13:42  <V453000> someone not having a clue might be a bigger problem but sure :)
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07:19:42  <V453000> !password
07:19:42  <PublicServer> V453000: flasks
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07:20:33  <V453000> !unpause
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08:55:51  <GriffinOneTwo> !players
08:55:53  <PublicServer> GriffinOneTwo: There are currently no clients connected to the server
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10:11:06  <Stanger> Ha, someone in here knows a easy merger for a L_R  to a LL_RR
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11:54:29  <V453000> L_R merger doesnt exist
11:54:38  <V453000> output with LL has various kinds, see junctionary
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12:17:06  <Stanger> Alrighty thanks
12:17:41  <V453000> yw
12:33:53  <Stanger> V you still here?
12:34:16  <V453000> nope
12:34:33  <Stanger> All....Righty
12:35:53  <V453000> I mean wtf am I meant to answer on that :P
12:37:19  <Stanger> Haha, can i ask a question?
12:37:25  <Stanger> Me and a friend or in a pickle
12:37:31  <Stanger> Are-
12:37:36  <V453000> no absolutely not I am in an irc channel not to take questions ever
12:37:44  <V453000> ... :)
12:38:01  <Stanger> haha.
12:38:56  <Stanger> so is there a better/less space way to make these Picks/Drops.
12:38:57  <Webster> Title: Screenshot by Lightshot (at
12:39:04  <Stanger> then is how ive been doing it.
12:41:20  <V453000> apart from the first thing that you could easily reverse the entrance/exit, _Never_ cross the mainline, always bridge it
12:42:44  <Stanger> Oh okay...i see.
12:42:46  <Stanger> let me do that
12:43:06  <V453000> in general, as long as there is a lot of traffic you will see that this solution is not very long-term oriented
12:43:27  <V453000> the point is that with increased traffic, more crossings is not the best way to do it, more bridges is a lot more efficient
12:43:34  <V453000> and systematic, obviously
12:44:47  <Stanger> So bridge the exit over the main line?
12:45:01  <Stanger> then connect the from the bride back to the line?
12:45:18  <V453000> basically yes
12:45:24  <V453000> nobody says you have to keep the lines together either
12:45:24  <Stanger> <-- bad English.
12:45:56  <V453000> in fact it is a lot better to make lines further apart from each other - more room = more expandability
12:46:24  <Stanger> Really? iv'e been doing the 2 lines 1x1
12:46:28  <Stanger> so make them  a bit further?
12:47:23  <V453000> sure, like 1_________1
12:47:33  <Stanger> so like that?
12:47:34  <Webster> Title: Screenshot by Lightshot (at
12:47:48  <V453000> as one of the options yeah
12:47:57  <Stanger> <-- Noob.
12:48:05  <V453000> minus the path signals, short curves, and things far apart from each other to have space later on
12:48:16  <V453000> remember, you can always make things work, fix them, or even expand them - but you need space
12:48:23  <Stanger> Thanks, if i need more help can i keep bothering you?
12:48:36  <Stanger> Haha, i bet your prob busy.
12:48:40  <V453000> why do you think I am here :)
12:49:01  <V453000> yeah well I wont be around today anymore, leaving in like 10 minutes, but of course you can "bother" me
12:49:22  <Stanger> Oh okay. sweet one more thing.
12:49:57  <Stanger> What would be the name for...uh basically i want a line to break off then come around to the other line
12:50:02  <Stanger> so they can switch
12:53:14  <V453000> gtg bai
12:54:37  <Stanger> Aighty bye
13:03:35  <planetmaker> sounds like a turn-around
13:03:54  <planetmaker> But... we don't want that in networks
13:06:17  <planetmaker> trains only turn around in terminal stations. If they do elsewhere, it's bad network design usually :-)
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13:09:20  <nicfer> !dl win64
13:09:21  <PublicServer> nicfer:
13:11:56  <nicfer> hmmm, seems like I have outdated graphics with this update
13:14:02  <Stanger> Hmm...okay then..
13:14:03  <Stanger> well
13:15:41  <nicfer> and there's no update for ogfx
13:16:54  <nicfer> maybe I need a beta version of it
13:17:06  <nicfer> !password
13:17:06  <PublicServer> nicfer: flasks
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15:12:23  <Woolridge> hey there
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20:08:50  <mfb-> hi
20:08:55  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> hi
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20:10:36  <mfb-> !password
20:10:36  <PublicServer> mfb-: flasks
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20:11:04  <PublicServer> <mfb> nothing happened?
20:11:27  <PublicServer> <Maraxus> new map yesterday evening afaik
20:11:34  <PublicServer> <mfb> oh
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20:47:42  <Jam35> !dl
20:47:43  <PublicServer> Jam35: !dl autostart|autottd|lin|lin64|osx|ottdau|source|win32|win64|win9x
20:47:43  <PublicServer> Jam35:
20:51:39  <Jam35> !password
20:51:40  <PublicServer> Jam35: pacing
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